Aug. 4,2005 Host Ms.

Alison Barter 2E572 The Pentagon Transcriber ~urphy ON BACKGROUND
Ms. Bater Thanks for binh us to& We want toget started right away. We appreciateyour interest and your timeoatdy Drank you for being here, and b r your time. ~ n d with that,justas a reminder, this is en background. We'vegotacoupkopeningstatements, Ithmk you weregoing b talk about a few Ihmga and then we'll go Into questions.
I would just briefly Hey guys, good to be ¥ againÑÑÑÑÑ you -yes. Ive got m a w three tnings 'd Ike to b ~ c on and then I'd I ke lo smng kopen¥Èyo h questions

First, Iknow there's wnm levelof Interest h exady what it wasthat ourvehicle stuck yes* out near Haditha. It started out In first reoorts as a mine. then if went to IED. Ãi morningthe § informal won) coming out of MNF-W is thalif was a tripe-slackerianii-lank mine.

Voice' You guys ere breaking up pretty bad. Could you say that again general, please?

1 y e a n 1 say it again The e@c& that the AAV stuck m a tnpte-Stackedant. m r e ad on the roadway I've seen wme picturesthis momig The crater looks to be amen to egnl feet across and maybe three or four feet deep So Its not one of these massive thingsthat Â¥ev seen in fie past but ~ ~ ~ ~ f c a n t m a g h b knock fte vahdeupeMe doià and newtneless really splÃif open So Us unforkineta b say thaio~ryoung Manrosnever really had a cnance

On IraqibatUlmns Iwaldxd a program last nigh1and oneof the comnwBlom lalkd aboulthe TWO Iraqibattaitonsout0190 that are capable diighttig Thats a real d¥torto n my mind There are vanous evaluationtectin QUBS takim dace in the ttieater The lgure 90 a roughly accurate; Itiink Ifs probablycloser 100 or ÈBut ofthat number, four-fifths are curontty lightingabngsideAm%an forces And w IM n k m ' n got to be careful to holding them to b high a standud.
f m say that mefre canpleMyable b inoependently operate, mars tort 01levelone But tin raqis n fact, don Ihave a logistics and intedigence 1 think a sophisticatedcommand-and-control system and wtnout those things theyre nevergoinglo real y baableb Iignl without us Now hose things are beng created But fi be meantime Die reportswe're getting back 3 that t w guys are d o q paw dqgone good mth regad to smal unit Bctics you know, tquetteel plamon-leva mmpany-fevelstuff So Imink we need b give credit to wnm young Iraqisout h r e Inat are b h g out onto the horizon and trying to& the right mmg


The th rd lhmg has lo do çÃu m b of çta<x j ~ sme lethality of all d thal It might wiprim n and t you b Iwar mat we re seelng abut 500 alack! a wakor w Thucoinei to a r w h oilawrage a 01aOOJl70 a d y Thah adua Mess tian we tfe sustainingat ma troe last p a r

No* some would say that the M a l l ts up. Onceagain, Igot s o m figures from our A1 before stepping over here. In fact, casualty I'm talking killed now in action- are roughly the same from Janualy 6uo@ July of 2004, as they are Janualy h u g h July of 2005 Total numbm of casualties are actually down from the period leading up to the election, the sovereigntyperiod, the election penod, they're down a little bit averagingroughly 100 orso a w k


NOH, the numben of Iraqi civilma, and me numben of Iraqisec~rity forces are up. and Ithmn tiat re the Çà ft thing of wm of these sud& bombm gethig d o x r In b t i n t awls.m of tie szes of tie suicide VBIEDs. and so form, ano Imlnx thai you would say a d our national populationought to say that we somewhat expect Iraqisecurity kmcasualties to go up as they continuegetmore engaged.
So IwouM just offer those thma pointsto start with and then turn it o w to you all for questions. Mr. Garrett Hey sir, Us John Garret

Mr. Garrett Is b M know tiis. but the securityforces, two baskgroups there. You've got the several brandsof police-typesecurity forces




Mr. Garret And then you've got the military on the other hand. Are all those being trained under the overeight of MNSTCI (Muffi-Naticmal SecurityTrmiUcm Canmand Iraq)? Yes. .ohn, they bolt come under MNSTCI. In lad. mydwty d i r e c t a m Is,~stmmlngback Baghdad boay and he's go ng b go o f a d ~ i y about amtier w n month or so. Me will DO tie guy in charge of poice Iralnmg. The UIW star has fro generalo h m ns womlng lor him. one who trams tie mittaryand one wno ~ra me potca But boft mme underlie headingof MNSTCI who pmv'xies for tie traning fadites. tie equipment.thà embeds. tima types Of things. Mr. Garret Thank you Mr. Atari: Hey general, Ken Ajlard. You certaintywere prophetic last month nhen you warned us aboutthehhhoftethalii with the IEDs. thatcatalmlvleems to have been -case. What I'm wondering am twoquestiona.Am you & c a d about the fact tiatva appear b be setting some patternsin tie tactical operations?And he lamer questionis of course, naungcleared these areas and caitainly Had'ia a not the only one. we can a n about Fallujnh, a lor that matBr. l i e e a (port road to Baghdad. Do w have enough forces over mere b actually secure what we've a ready fought for? Or are HO doing tie same thng fiat we saw (inaudiole)b Vietnam. me tactics. sxuation. I've go1 b tell you. as you look at the grad and do tie riaoitia,you got tie linn to me nom, wry large lake. and the dam. got mars somewhat restrictive mat direcKxi,you'vegota b i n up area pat west of me river, p a w
aiionraia ui U W area around ~

IYeah. so id copy. Kan. Fint of al on patterns.You know. m n t e 1 Unk It probably

a power line and an access roadway then that leads down south, southeastfrom the item,and that'swhere both the snipare were hi,as wen as where the track took the strike.
So, to the extent that those f o b were maybeopemlngalong the same mutes, avoiding the bullUD mwMion. unable tow north Idon? know. But Icould- 1 could see È* that could bethe mat panin.iirpi&a of ground You knm, mmmandersover l i n e mess NOT ddngÈa of course, but in some ways Us unavoidable

& c goua be pnmenly andioredon nose MSRs (naudible - because?) mars çtie tho m a w of the IrafficIs. So how do you get crealwe and change your paitemm n those are your e and tasMws? That said. oeode are consciousof I m I e realize that If you do get~~mpla~ent with ~Ccartainl~ U n b can happen. bad

My oldest son lust checked in a coupleof weeks ago he's opening out of Fallupn and he's g d maporeiMliyfor MSR (main wppry fouh).Mtallgan, MSR-Mddbfrom Atm Qhmib on o u r to FaUah Yw M, ol b bmak a pattern You g o b be oul lien. s Qotla be working Mnd w

On the second issue, do we haveenouohtrooos? You know. Ithink so. we're ooemttna from fixed bases, mobile patois geUng OJI l necessary sabrajoti of me locakms,&-*re and doing & we tnnk the oad guys are and then making sure they re not where we don t liinkihey are it ym'll pardon the use of a double mgakve
But we are posting people&re we've been more and more. Ken. ti l i e west and d w e people ' are wanng Iraqiuniforms AM mat's as It stah be  we're ever going to get out of Here. Ithink. a thaittose t b are w n g to haw b assure tiat resoonsihliy So we. wili them. dear hand then we build la<^ where they can both ooerate oil of themselvesand rest win sore assurance against the V~IEDS suickie ~ I E D ~ , of Mr. Allad: Iwould agree with that because If anytody (who?) Is going to alert n u to hey, the other guy's setting a pattern here it ought b be those Iraqitroop. Well. you're exactly right YOJluxm, we had a conversationthis morningwtti the Ghainnar on more ISR. out SR in ufbm insurgency isn't neoessanly we answer. Ks much more b do i n numan nt?II~gence. mars W we've got b really capitateon the Iraqis and Mr. ~ c l n e r n ~ : ~ Mclnerny ~orn -yea sir.

Mr. Mctnemy: It appears tome, Imeanfollowing upon this question, is our shortage aH abng has been i n l e l l i i c r It isn't the sizeof the forces we have. Ira intelligence,and of c o u w you te that in with the rat lines In from in Syria, the support from Syria. So f a n kind of asking you two questions. Do we really have good enough intelligence,the HUMINT, b react will the operaiwi inlelliwnca? And then. of mum. what do wedo abut Syria? Thafs alwaysadna to be a problem til Ibelieve you're given cross-borderauthorityand other mved abilities. Could n u comment on those points?


yes sir, Iw k j . You know, I would have answered the quetttonon intelligence very differentlysix or eight months ago when Iwas there, because we were Just NOTgetUng the available HUMINT that we neededto & the febs. And Dartof that was that our WET?- HAT? Humanitarianassistanceteams?) teamscoukln'tget kt, coukJn'tdo theclvl aflaim things thalsorl of lead to Ihosetypes ofopoortunlles when you mix with thedvilian popMan. It Is quantum better now. I've seen some cham coming out of theateronthe numbemofHJMINT repom hot) ne reportson a nationalhotline, local reports that are being given more tome Iraqis. And mat's Vie beauty of getting tiese bnm out there with us, a thai they're, you know. they're pretty proudof their raql boys. They'veg ~about a 75 penxnt a t m rab mti He e minary ana the police. And the pw mat want b see the country eventuallystaNllzed realize that that's how It's going to h a m , and these Mis of HUMINT aregiwn to these guys, and of course they take advantage of it


There was a figure Us probably about 30 days old now, but there was a 1 W d growth in the numbersofhoUii reportswhenB was open nationwide. And Ithinke btoftMs has got to do, again, with the growth of the Iraqi securityforces.


Sym s a probtem And they re doing s w but Ih n k 11s in everymy's tetel that they can a m o shoub do more And Ithlnk there wn Ibe continualpressureto bear. both intematonaly and cenamty on the part of the Coalibon form to b to get them b do more y
You know. but lhal said I mink Here s some bong Hat can to done on the Iraqi sideof the bofder as well pereonally Ilend to think hat twe're golw to say that <'a a pnoffly that we snutdown È' rat lines, and if we are concernedthat there miy be a higherpercentage of foreign fighters coming in. then here are some t h i w that need to bedoneon the Irmiskie without slarlirm another h n l If you know Tiat I man. And Ithink that the Iraqi governmentand probablyour peoplethere am starting b come togrips with that
There's not a nmhkun rfnum on thA KuwaitibonWwitti rumdm cnmina across. And that's because m&-s-an-elecfelfieo ,&, i & & dl- & a \ 9 n *,&& ; and there's

about three dbrrmmrsof sBndofl belweenthoso a i m . So. you know. a a n po nt I w o 901 ae J about constructingborder obstacles out them Ithink wo can help ourselvesagreat deal. S Border (points?Ports?) are going up, but probablynot at the rate that you or Iwould like.

e Mr. Mclnemey:Aren't w going to have todo something cowrtly in Syria? I know no one wants a newfront-yeah. Mr. Mclrmmey: But the fact is ft certainly sends a signal thateven if given cross-borderauthorityb the MulWanOnalForcessends a signal to the Syriansthey've got to& more. Iknow Wve been reluaant to want to do that but Ithink you're fighting with your hands tied behind your back. -lorn, about it here.
Imight agree with you,others might agree with you, but clearly Icant talk

Mr. Mclnemer. 1 understand.

Mr. Maginnis: General, Bob Maginnis.A two-partgueston, One has to & with the 17 allegedal Qaeda that were arrested In M a n the last cmpte of days, [rosily threatening?)our htertsta over them. A we seeing that sort of thing in the neighboffioodoutof Iraq In a suslainedIOÈel m lncreasinnor decreasing?The second ranis h Basra, and the Sha radicals Increase.At least, the murderoithis youngpimalist theotherday, what he wrote about suggested a COINPI Police and that there was a lot of influencefrom next door Iran. Can you comment on either one'? know I'mnnt familarwilhDM so& lrriltenlof the 17 anesledtl Jordan. bllow a pattern You know. tie trial we're gang to win tho largerglobalwar on m n s m men, Ibelieve is through ~ w r t i he mod& g And I(link mat some of tie other counties in tie regon am s t a m to gel It You all may or may not ha<e heard thai there was a convenmn of 12 Arab countriestaking [Xace nght now at Sham e-Sheik (7) in Egypt And b me. that is a very symbolicgesture that we'm starting to have it up to here with the extremismand at h i wme points the moderates are going to have to take diaige and get us out of tssitualoi we're in.

hl i


So it's not surprising at all that nations in the regionwho have come together at other conferences and sworn support to Imq would say. hey. we've got people that am beingfanned in ourown counties, to be brought mto Iraq, to be some of these suicidebombers, and It sort of stats there. And so. Iknow we% been maKfngthe point trial you al can help us with h a t and nthis ~Ostance, I'm glad to mar that (ley may be. In Basra certainly the incident Mf lieAmerican journalst Imink s a skry unto itself Apparenty he had written some ft ngs cnocal of some folks down trim Thafs a dangerous triing to do when you travel unescortedand stay in pl@ where he was staying But beyondthat, you know, them am somevery wise Iraqis that I'vesat with In Baghdad who've said our first problemIs the insurgency,our second problem is the Iranianinfluencethat's gotten into our country since h e war. And thevthmk they're d n a to haveto root it out ofthecountrvand of the politics without going to ciyi war.Ard they're wresting with how they do that Them is, of course much mom suppon for a wry shidgovemment n the mlth than there a wift the Kurds or witi tne Sunnb, and Basra s~spect pretty m ~ c trio canter of h a t You could b h argle thM Najal is sort of the xconJ wat again ! I I e m f c h Mscaatedmull malati &
Beyondmat Ican't talk to iL You mow. I(link (lal you also nave modems them say mat Uml may be me She pmfermdform but we're going b haw tocoma lcgetner with trie Kurds and the Sunnn to make mb whole ming çoia d so it can't be alone or the other.

Mr Babdn General Jed Sabb n To follow on Kindof on parallel with mat Tom was =king about do we have me cross bonier problem as bad from Iran as WB & wrth Syna?

we smke amimaicuslv will ~EDSdo Hlikcame(mm Hezbollatiby MY of Iran. Actually, I ¥I devkxi are being hindmore In the Shh mmmuntttea right nowhBuy are h DM SunL and that's somewlialencouraging Incase, again, m Hawn'tprolifemted. y

But no, Idon't Hhk we'm seeing the nuntera of bmlgn fchkm coming ¥cross Otiuunkxnul of hluences, abmlJfly. But not l i e rat N m f Halmere referend by tieflraUx¥ncax question.
Mr. EabUn: Thank you. Mr. Nash: General, Chuck Nash. There was aquestonIn a snide that appearedyesterday about n Die sniper teams- D tmsn.wtBams that out inbnlcM.In tteartcle there were Iw M scenarios.~eitheroneof&madei~~idi&sabmemd~'malkingifyoucouldcterifyti~if you know at ! point And that is. au scenario was th^ EM t e r n were basically surroundedup i t on tielopof a hilloramwntain,asked tororrender,andaccwiiing totlieaifck tie badguyssaid they didn't surrender, so we WDiem.

m out mvinn hd~mdanttv. . warn in radiocontact uitheachother. but thav woe not . - . . . . .. . ..Thav . . . . - -.. . .. . - - . . . . . , . ,. . . . ... . . .

I'lltell you whal we do know d,onca again, Ira not a I& k mmoving together,a third Two

nnirtting attha timeHal~ eguys <nn talon under~m. r TIKHIM &UUl bm liiy heoil a sudden bunt oflim lasthg Iw b wwn Mrenk and Gnn Hbnm. Nor,at thalpont M anonlyofhr~m.Iç11telyouthalDwy~mnothaDultupambseinmomtiMi of Ie grid coudlnalea. à muopen few m r Whrrein numberof tm!d ira ~.onthaçaitiMeoftheilwpnnymuchacum,mliftMlof1çHKMI1Dmmdtlimfc - rm sony,swth. sxithaast of HadUiaDam and soulheastot HadHia. PrettymUdi open gmIKJ.




What Ican M I you is that they were not o m n by 30 or 40 guy; that got o u t d pickup tucks a couple h~ndred yards away and came at them In open ground liçHathese gun would haw naiad a dozen or more Tm/m great shots and that ground mnas h e H b that We had an instance Èhe Iwas te hfiere we tost a couple sniper Rams on Dp of a MldinQ m Ramadi And we kund aAer some weeks that there was an Irwi m s t u c l m crew that was wilting In that building and they had fed and watered these guyson two ortiree separate occasions pwlously. On the Kurd or fourth Imthey came up will] pistolsIn th*bell bands, when the Marines gotocoipied, they lliot Diem. So, xmething like that - 1 don't know, I simply don't know and we pvbably shouidn'toffer conmre. But that five second - 540-7 second thing Ithink points towardsone or the other scenario. Mr, Nash: OK, hank you.

Ms. Barber We p b a b t j have lime forone morequesfon,ifthere'sone more to haw.
Mr. Nash: If I could, Chuck Nash again Ths battalionout of Ohb. You take theinters and the IEDs, that's 21 Marinesout of small baltalwi. We weredialing bebm you cane on the line atom you know, where the D-Day memorial is in Vbginu. mat Is a tremendoussacnifce h area. that Could you tell me. what is the MarineCorns -1 know this is out of your Joint hat- but what is the ~arinaCorps doing to addressthose families, the state people there?

I Isuspect here wil be some thlM!. ~ean Chua. IdM know ye!.

know yesterday morning the Manne Corps was augmenbng to (CACO teams?) to try b make sum fiat we got words b the families as rapxjy as we WJUwithout delay.

They were contactingcongressmen, and congcesswomenactually, in the areas wttere tnese folks were from hoping to marshalsome additionalsupport l Hlnk. and do he courtesy th ng m a goel back b Cid War aays when you had. you kmw, l a m diunks of units Hal MTO Killed aln'msl at the same time, so it's almost unprecedentedin terms oirecent warfare. There will be more, fm ims. What, Ihtknow at this point Iguess it'sjust prematureto say. But ' Certainly, as, you know, as everybody thafs talkedon it has said, our hearts and prayersgoout to the community becauseifs got to be ashock. Mr. Nash: 11iank you. I r f e y guys. one point Iwould close wm if Ican. You know, I- there's a great article Iddn'tget to inlsh reading today but I8um got meget of <. IIn nk it's in he Wall Street Journal You mow you got Zawann hem all o w l the air m e bday, you've got He events over the last vs m p l a aays and mçs people trying to tam cradit for it You know. Its absolutelyterrible frat we lost mat ndmber d Marines over a W a y period and they were he tactical target, but the strategic mrget mmans our poplafon We can BÃp p l e day4n and dayoul tÈ. W n nawr w tAnd going to beat our military. What they can end wil do if they can is strip away our M r . you guys can help us not let that happen.

Voice. General. IJust made that point on the air. The way Hat t h yo^ can help us in lhatcause hk Is lo simply underline Hose points In unmistakableb m mry cnina you gel
WOTt It together guys. Thank you.

Ms. Barber Thank you.
Voices: Thank you. Take care.


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