Aug.

4,2005
Host Ms. Alison Barter
2E572 The Pentagon
Transcriber ~urphy
ON BACKGROUND

Ms. Bater Thanks for binh us to& We want toget started right away. We appreciateyour
interest and your timeotday- Drank you for being here, and b r your time. ~ n d
with that,justas a reminder, this is en background. We'vegotacoupkopeningstatements, Ithmk
you weregoing b talk about a few Ihmga and then we'll go Into questions.

-yes. I would just briefly Hey guys, good to be ¥you againÑÑÑÑÑ

Ive got m a w three tnings 'd Ike to b ~ c on
h and then I'd I ke lo smng kopen¥Èyoquestions

First, Iknow there's wnm levelof Interest h exady what it wasthat ourvehicle stuck yes*
out near Haditha. It started out In first reoorts as a mine. then if went to IED. çi morningthe
informal won) coming out of MNF-W is thalif was a tripe-slackerianii-lank mine.

Voice' You guys ere breaking up pretty bad. Could you say that again general, please?

B y e a n1 1say it again The e@c& that the AAV stuck m a tnpte-Stackedant.

Â¥ar m r e ad on the roadway I've seen wme picturesthis momig The crater looks to be amen
to egnl feet across and maybe three or four feet deep So Its not one of these massive thingsthat
Â¥ev seen in fie past but ~ ~ ~ ~ fnewtneless
c a n t m a g h b knock fte vahdeupeMe doià and
really splÃif open So Us unforkineta b say thaio~ryoungManrosnever really had a cnance

On IraqibatUlmns Iwaldxd a program last nigh1and oneof the comnwBlom lalkd aboulthe
TWO Iraqibattaitonsout0190 that are capable diighttig Thats a real d¥torto n my mind
There are vanous evaluationtectin QUBS takim dace in the ttieater The lgure 90 a roughly
accurate; Itiink Ifs probablycloser 100 or ÈBut ofthat number, four-fifths are curontty
lightingabngsideAm%an forces And w IM n k m ' n got to be careful to holding them to b high
a standud.

f m say that mefre canpleMyable b inoependently operate, mars tort 01levelone But tin
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raqis n fact, don Ihave a logistics and intedigence 1 think a sophisticatedcommand-and-control
system and wtnout those things theyre nevergoinglo real y baableb Iignl without us Now
hose things are beng created But fi be meantime Die reportswe're getting back 3 that t w
guys are d o q paw dqgone good mth regad to smal unit Bctics you know, tquetteel
plamon-leva mmpany-fevelstuff So Imink we need b give credit to wnm young Iraqisout h r e
Inat are b h g out onto the horizon and trying to& the right mmg

The th rd lhmg has lo do çà t lethality of all d thal It might wiprim

n u m b of çta<xand j ~ sme
you b Iwar mat we re seelng abut 500 alack! a wakor w Thucoinei to a r w h oilawrage
01aOOJl70 a day Thah adua Mess tian we tfe sustainingat ma troe last p a r
No* some would say that the M a l l ts up. Onceagain, Igot s o m figures from our A1 before
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stepping over here. In fact, casualty I'm talking killed now in action- are roughly the same from
Janualy 6uo@ July of 2004, as they are Janualy h u g h July of 2005 Total numbm of
casualties are actually down from the period leading up to the election, the sovereigntyperiod, the
election penod, they're down a little bit averagingroughly 100 orso a w k

NOH, the numben of Iraqi civilma, and me numben of Iraqisec~rityforces are up. and Ithmn tiat
re- the Çà ft thing of wm of these sud& bombm gethig d o x r In b t i n t awls.m
of tie szes of tie suicide VBIEDs. and so form, ano Imlnx thai you would say a d our national
populationought to say that we somewhat expect Iraqisecurity kmcasualties to go up as they
continuegetmore engaged.

So IwouM just offer those thma pointsto start with and then turn it o w to you all for questions.

Mr. Garrett Hey sir, Us John Garret

B~ohnljusttostabet~oahead.

Mr. Garrett Is b M know tiis. but the securityforces, two baskgroups there. You've got the
several brandsof police-typesecurity forces -
IY
Mr. Garret And then you've got the military on the other hand. Are all those being trained under
the overeight of MNSTCI (Muffi-NaticmalSecurityTrmiUcm Canmand Iraq)?

w Yes. .ohn, they bolt come under MNSTCI. In lad. mydwty d i r e c t a m

Is,~stmmlngback Baghdad boay and he's go ng b go o

womlng lor him. one who trams tie mittaryand one wno ~ra
w f a d ~ i yn about amtier
month or so. Me will DO tie guy in charge of poice Iralnmg. The UIW star has fro generalo h m
ns me potca But boft mme underlie
headingof MNSTCI who pmv'xies for tie traning fadites. tie equipment.thà embeds. tima types
Of things.

Mr. Garret Thank you

Mr. Atari: Hey general, Ken Ajlard. You certaintywere prophetic last month nhen you warned us
aboutthehhhoftethalii with the IEDs. thatcatalmlvleems to have been -case. What I'm
wondering am twoquestiona.Am you & c a d about the fact tiatva appear b be setting some
patternsin tie tactical operations?And he lamer questionis of course, naungcleared these
areas and caitainly Had'ia a not the only one. we can a n about Fallujnh, a lor that matBr. l i e
a (port road to Baghdad. Do we have enough forces over mere b actually secure what we've
a ready fought for? Or are HO doing tie same thng fiat we saw (inaudiole)b Vietnam.

IYeah. so id copy. Kan. Fint of al on patterns.You know. m n t e 1 Unk It probably

me tactics. sxuation. I've go1 b tell you. as you look at the grad and do tie
aiionraia ui U W area
~ around
riaoitia,you got tie linn to me nom, wry large lake. and the dam.
mars somewhat restrictive mat direcKxi,you'vegota b i n up area pat west of me river, p a wgot
a power line and an access roadway then that leads down south, southeastfrom the item,and
that'swhere both the snipare were hi,as wen as where the track took the strike.

So, to the extent that those f o b were maybeopemlngalong the same mutes, avoiding the bull-
UD mwMion. unable tow north Idon? know. But Icould- 1 could see È*that could bethe
&c mat panin.iirpi&a of ground You knm, mmmandersover l i n e mess NOT ddngÈa
of course, but in some ways Us unavoidable

My oldest son lust checked in a coupleof weeks ago he's opening out of Fallupn and he's g d
maporeiMliyfor MSR (main wppry fouh).Mtallgan, MSR-Mddbfrom Atm Qhmib on o u r to
FaUah Yw M,Mnd ol b.gh b bmak a pattern You g o b be oul lien. s w Qotla be working
I.you goua be pnmenly andioredon nose MSRs (naudible - because?) mars çtie tho m a w
of the IrafficIs. So how do you get crealwe and change your paitemmen those are your
tasMws? That said. oeode are consciousof Iand m I e realize that If you do get~~mpla~ent
with ~Ccartainl~ bad U n b can happen.

On the second issue, do we haveenouohtrooos? You know. Ithink so. we're ooemttna from fixed
bases, mobile patois geUng OJI and doing l& necessary sabrajoti of me locakms,&-*re
we tnnk the oad guys are and then making sure they re not where we don t liinkihey are it ym'll
pardon the use of a double mgakve

' re we've been more and more. Ken. ti l i e west and d w e people
But we are posting people&
are wanng Iraqiuniforms AM mat's as It stah be  we're ever going to get out of Here. Ithink.
thaittose tab are w n g to haw b assure tiat resoonsihliy So we. wili them. dear hand
then we build la<^ where they can both ooerate oil of themselvesand rest win sore assurance
against the V~IEDSof suickie ~ I E D ~ ,

Mr. Allad: Iwould agree with that because If anytody (who?) Is going to alert n u to hey, the other
guy's setting a pattern here it ought b be those Iraqitroop.

Well. you're exactly right YOJluxm, we had a conversationthis morningwtti the

Ghainnar on more ISR. out SR in ufbm insurgency isn't neoessanly we answer. Ks much more b
do i n numan nt?II~gence.and mars W we've got b really capitateon the Iraqis

Mr. ~ c l n e r n ~ : ~ Mclnerny
~orn

-yea sir.

Mr. Mctnemy: It appears tome, Imeanfollowing upon this question, is our shortage aH abng has
been i n l e l l i i c r It isn't the sizeof the forces we have. Ira intelligence,and of c o u w you te that
-
in with the rat lines In from in Syria, the support from Syria. So f a n kind of asking you two
questions. Do we really have good enough intelligence,the HUMINT, b react will the operaiwi
inlelliwnca? And then. of mum. what do wedo abut Syria? Thafs alwaysadna to be a problem
til Ibelieve you're given cross-borderauthorityand other mved abilities. Could n u comment on
those points?
 yes sir, Iw k j . You know, I would have answered the quetttonon intelligence
very differentlysix or eight months ago when Iwas there, because we were Just NOTgetUng the
available HUMINT that we neededto & the febs. And Dartof that was that our WET?- HAT?
Humanitarianassistanceteams?) teamscoukln'tget kt,coukJn'tdo theclvl aflaim things thalsorl
of lead to Ihosetypes ofopoortunlles when you mix with thedvilian popMan.

It Is quantum better now. I've seen some cham coming out of theateronthe numbemofHJMINT
-
repom hot) ne reportson a nationalhotline, local reports that are being given more tome
Iraqis. And mat's Vie beauty of getting tiese bnm out there with us, a thai they're, you know.
they're pretty proudof their raql boys. They'veg ~about
t a 75 penxnt a m rab mti He
minary ana the police. And the p ew mat want b see the country eventuallystaNllzed realize
that that's how It's going to h a m , and these Mis of HUMINT aregiwn to these guys, and of
course they take advantage of it

-
There was a figure Us probably about 30 days old now, but there was a 1 W d growth in the
numbersofhoUii reportswhenB was open nationwide. And Ithinke btoftMs has got to do,
again, with the growth of the Iraqi securityforces.

Sym s a probtem And they re doing sow but Ih n k 11s in everymy's tetel that they can a m
shoub do more And Ithlnk there wn Ibe continualpressureto bear. both intematonaly and
cenamty on the part of the Coalibon form to by to get them b do more

You know. but lhal said I mink Here s some bong Hat can to done on the Iraqi sideof the bofder
as well pereonally Ilend to think hat twe're golw to say that <'a a pnoffly that we snutdown È'
rat lines, and if we are concernedthat there miy be a higherpercentage of foreign fighters coming
in. then here are some t h i w that need to bedoneon the Irmiskie without slarlirm another h n l
If you know Tiat I man. And Ithink that the Iraqi governmentand probablyour peoplethere am
starting b come togrips with that

There's not a nmhkun rfnum on thA KuwaitibonWwitti rumdm cnmina across. And that's because
a \ 9 ,&,
m&-s-an-elecfelfieo n i & & dl*-,&& & - ; and there's
about three dbrrmmrsof sBndofl belweenthoso a i m . So. you know. a aane po nt I w o 901
~ J about
S constructingborder obstacles out them Ithink wo can help ourselvesagreat deal.

Border (points?Ports?) are going up, but probablynot at the rate that you or Iwould like.

Mr. Mclnemey:Aren't we going to have todo something cowrtly in Syria? I know no one wants a
newfront-

-yeah.

Mr. Mclrmmey: But the fact is ft certainly sends a signal thateven if given cross-borderauthorityb
the MulWanOnalForcessends a signal to the Syriansthey've got to& more. Iknow Wve been
reluaant to want to do that but Ithink you're fighting with your hands tied behind your back.

-lorn, Imight agree with you,others might agree with you, but clearly Icant talk
about it here.
Mr. Mclnemer. 1 understand.

Â¥O
Mr. Maginnis: General, Bob Maginnis.A two-partgueston, One has to & with the 17 allegedal
Qaeda that were arrested In M a n the last cmpte of days, [rosily threatening?)our htertsta
over them. Am we seeing that sort of thing in the neighboffioodoutof Iraq In a suslainedIOÈel
lncreasinnor decreasing?The second ranis h Basra, and the Sha radicals Increase.At least, the
murderoithis youngpimalist theotherday, what he wrote about suggested a COINPI Police and
that there was a lot of influencefrom next door Iran. Can you comment on either one'?

hil know I'mnnt familarwilhDM so& lrriltenlof the 17 anesledtl Jordan.

k bllow a pattern You know. tie & trial we're gang to win tho largerglobalwar
on m n s m men, Ibelieve is through ~ w r t i he g mod& And I(link mat some of tie
other counties in tie regon am s t a m to gel It You all may or may not ha<e heard thai there was
a convenmn of 12 Arab countriestaking [Xace nght now at Sham e-Sheik (7) in Egypt And b me.
that is a very symbolicgesture that we'm starting to have it up to here with the extremismand at
wme points the moderates are going to have to take diaige and get us out of thissitualoi we're
in.

So it's not surprising at all that nations in the regionwho have come together at other conferences
and sworn support to Imq would say. hey. we've got people that am beingfanned in ourown
counties, to be brought mto Iraq, to be some of these suicidebombers, and It sort of stats there.

And so. Iknow we% been maKfngthe point trial you al can help us with h a t and nthis ~Ostance,
I'm glad to mar that (ley may be.

In Basra certainly the incident Mf lieAmerican journalst Imink s a skry unto itself Apparenty
he had written some ft ngs cnocal of some folks down trim Thafs a dangerous triing to do when
you travel unescortedand stay in pl@ where he was staying

But beyondthat, you know, them am somevery wise Iraqis that I'vesat with In Baghdad who've
said our first problemIs the insurgency,our second problem is the Iranianinfluencethat's gotten
into our country since h e war. And thevthmk they're d n a to haveto root it out ofthecountrvand
of the politics without going to ciyi war.Ard they're wresting with how they do that

Them is, of course much mom suppon for a wry shidgovemment n the mlth than there a wift
the Kurds or witi tne Sunnb, and Basra s~spectb pretty m ~ c trio
h canter of h a t You could
argle thM Najal is sort of the xconJ wat again !&I I e m f c h Mscaatedmull malati

Beyondmat Ican't talk to iL You mow. I(link (lal you also nave modems them say mat Uml
may be me She pmfermdform but we're going b haw tocoma lcgetner with trie Kurds and the
Sunnn to make mb whole ming çoia d so it can't be alone or the other.

Mr Babdn General Jed Sabb n To follow on Kindof on parallel with mat Tom was =king about
do we have me cross bonier problem as bad from Iran as WB & wrth Syna?
we smke amimaicuslv will ~EDSIdo Hlikcame(mm Hezbollatiby MY of Iran. Actually,
Â¥I devkxi are being hindmore In the Shh mmmuntttea right nowhBuy are h DM SunL
and that's somewlialencouraging Incase, again, m
y Hawn'tprolifemted.
But no, Idon't Hhk we'm seeing the nuntera of bmlgn fchkm coming ¥crossOtiuunkxnul
of hluences, abmlJfly. But not l i e rat N m f Halmere referend by tieflraUx¥ncax
question.

Mr. EabUn: Thank you.

Mr. Nash: General, Chuck Nash. There was aquestonIn an snide that appearedyesterday about
Die sniper teams- DM tmsn.wtBams that out inbnlcM.In tteartcle there were Iw
scenarios.~eitheroneof&madei~~idi&sabmemd~'malkingifyoucouldcterifyti~if
you know at !it point And that is. au scenario was th^ EM t e r n were basically surroundedup
on tielopof a hilloramwntain,asked tororrender,andaccwiiing totlieaifck tie badguyssaid
they didn't surrender, so we WDiem.

I'lltell you whal we do know d,onca again, Ira not a I&Two k mmoving together,a third
m
.- - out
...mvinn
.. . ..,.Thav
hd~mdanttv.
.... . .. ,warn
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in.radiocontact
... .. -. -. . other.
.uitheach
...... .
- - thav woe not
.- - but
nnirtting attha timeHal~ eguys r <nn talon under~m.TIKHIMbm &UUl liiy
heoil a sudden bunt oflim lasthg Iw b wwn Mrenk and Gnn Hbnm. Nor,at thalpont M
anonlyofhr~m.Iç11telyouthalDwy~mnothaDultupambseinmomtiMi
of Ie grid coudlnalea. Ã muopen brrah.rw few m r Whrrein mnumberof tm!d ira
~.onthaçaitiMeoftheilwpnnymuchacum,mliftMlof1çHKMI1Dmmdtlimfc
- rm sony,swth. sxithaast of HadUiaDam and soulheastot HadHia. PrettymUdi open gmIKJ.
What Ican M I you is that they were not o m n by 30 or 40 guy; that got o u t d pickup tucks a
couple h~ndredyards away and came at them In open ground liçHathese gun would haw
naiad a dozen or more Tm/m great shots and that ground mnas h e H b that

We had an instance Èhe Iwas the- fiere we tost a couple sniper Rams on Dp
of a MldinQ m Ramadi And we kund aAer some weeks that there was an Irwi m s t u c l m crew
that was wilting In that building and they had fed and watered these guyson two ortiree
separate occasions pwlously. On the Kurd or fourth Imthey came up will] pistolsIn th*bell
bands, when the Marines gotocoipied, they lliot Diem. So, xmething like that - 1 don't know, I
simply don't know and we pvbably shouidn'toffer conmre. But that five second - 540-7 second
thing Ithink points towardsone or the other scenario.

Mr, Nash: OK, hank you.

Ms. Barber We p b a b t j have lime forone morequesfon,ifthere'sone more to haw.

Mr. Nash: If I could, Chuck Nash again Ths battalionout of Ohb. You take theinters and the
IEDs, that's 21 Marinesout of small baltalwi. We weredialing bebm you cane on the line atom
you know, where the D-Day memorial is in Vbginu. mat Is a tremendoussacnifce hthat area.
Could you tell me. what is the MarineCorns -1 know this is out of your Joint hat- but what is the
~arinaCorpsdoing to addressthose families, the state people there?

I
~ e a nChua. IdM know ye!. Isuspect here wil be some thlM!. know
yesterday morning the Manne Corps was augmenbng to (CACO teams?) to try b make sum fiat
we got words b the families as rapxjy as we WJUwithout delay.

They were contactingcongressmen, and congcesswomenactually, in the areas wttere tnese folks
were from hoping to marshalsome additionalsupport l Hlnk. and do he courtesy th ng m a goel
back b Cid War aays when you had. you kmw, l a m diunks of units Hal MTO Killed aln'msl at the
same time, so it's almost unprecedentedin terms oirecent warfare.

There will be more, fm ims. What, Ih'tknow at this point Iguess it'sjust prematureto say. But
Certainly, as, you know, as everybody thafs talkedon it has said, our hearts and prayersgoout to
the community becauseifs got to be ashock.
Mr. Nash: 11iank you.

I r f e y guys. one point Iwould close wm if Ican. You know, I- there's a great article
Iddn'tget to inlsh reading today but I8um got meget of <. IIn nk it's in he Wall Street Journal
You mow you got Zawann hem all o w l the air mves bday, you've got He events over the last
m p l a aays and mçs people trying to tam cradit for it You know. Its absolutelyterrible frat we
lost mat ndmber d Marines over a W a y period and they were he tactical target, but the
strategic mrget mmans our poplafon We can BÃp p l e day4n and dayoul tÈ. W n nawr
going to beat our military. What they can end wil do if they can is strip away our Mwrt.And you
guys can help us not let that happen.
Voice. General. IJust made that point on the air. The way Hat thhk yo^ can help us in lhatcause
Is lo simply underline Hose points In unmistakableb m mry cnina you gel

-L~t's WOTt It together guys. Thank you.

Ms. Barber Thank you.

Voices: Thank you. Take care.

Calends.