Jay Abraham - Sequential Marketing

Sequential Marketing
From MMT December 2002
Mac: What Jay and Carl are going to go through here, simple humility that they both
possess will prevent them from telling you the magnitude of what they’re about to
give you.
This one of the great marketing turnarounds I’ve ever seen. They took, in the last
year working on these techniques the last couple of years using the new
technologies --- e-mail, combined with their direct marketing knowledge and
expertise and intuition and everything else --- and just dogging this on Carl’s part,
as well as creativity. They took a situation where the average conversion of a lead
for a program like this was 1%, very expensive to put people in seats even using
associates and affiliates to bring leads in, it was 1%.
What they’re about to tell you is how they changed the conversion rate a thousand
times at less expense than they had initially. Most people can’t fill a room with
twenty people at fifty bucks. Look around you. The twenty people at fifty bucks
are less satisfied than you are --- six hundred people at five thousand dollars. This
is extraordinary what they’re going to share with you --- their ability and the
willingness to open this up is almost unprecedented in business. Please give it
your full attention.
Jay: O.K. So we started looking at what changes were going on in the world and the
one conclusion we came up with, I think nonverbally, was you have get more
utilization, utility, productivity out of the action, the opportunity. What I always
taught but it was very………..hit home, don’t you think, Carl?
Carl: Right.
Jay: And I have always been of the mindset…

1.) That it, literally, was only a matter of time before everybody you wanted
to have a relationship with you would.
2.) That a lot of people really wanted to do it. They just didn’t know it yet.
3.) That if it was going to benefit them, you couldn’t let them off the hook
just because you hadn’t clearly conveyed the level of value at a high
enough clarity that they couldn’t say anything but yes.
4.) That we’re so preoccupied in our lives with so many day-to-day
diversions, calamities, insanities that it’s hard for us to really reflect on
something.
© 2006 All Rights Reserved 1 www.abraham.com

5.) That there’s a lot of things we want to do but we never do. There’s a lot
of things we should do but we never do.
6.) That even if we want to do it, getting us out of our comfort zone is hard
and that we had a moral obligation to not let you guys down.
How many people here got more than one e-mail before you signed up? Raise
your hand. Stand up. Again. I’ve got to do this. Walk to the wall. Walk to the
wall. O.K. Now take six hundred and fifty times five thousand. That’s a little
high because there’s a couple of partners and there’s some friends of mine here
but it’s a little high. But not a lot. Take six hundred and fifty times five
thousand. Now remove this group times five thousand a head if I had resigned
myself to one e-mail and look at this room. Now stay there. Go back as I call this
example. You got a second e-mail. If that was what it took for you to sign up go
back --- just so you guys can see it graphically. You got maybe two or three
reports and you studied them, go back. You got maybe two or three or four or
five calls from Carl Turner. Think about it. I want to you to think what it took. I
want you guys to see how sequential activities make a difference. And all of
these heads are five thousand dollars to you. All these heads, that man is a five
thousand dollar vest, that man sitting down is a five thousand dollar tie. That man
is a five thousand dollar…………..that guy is at least five thousand dollars. Want
to bet on it? O.K. How many people did it after they were on a conference call
with me? There’s a five thousand dollar person. How many were on it they got
one of the other speakers’ reports? How many got it after I did something that
was very straightforward but audacious and you finally thought, “Dammit! He’s
got me.” How many people had to wait until almost the end before we finally
pushed you over the wall? Did I make my point? Did I make my point?
One of the things I use to teach --- it’s in all the material we gave you before. It’s
been repeated in some of the workbooks we gave you. Yes? Plus three letters
from Oxford Club, besides that. Everyone says, “Oh! Don’t e-mail people more
than a couple of times. You will offend them.” We did a little survey of the
people who unsubscribed and sent me nasty e-mails. And we went to see, if
anything, they ever bought from me. You want to guess what the answer is? I
got maybe one was an overwhelm. Yeah. And I am attention deficit. The
gentleman says I’m not. So I either am or not. I’m confused. I undecided. But
I’m just giving you bases here. And then Carl’s going to talk with you and it’s
because I forgot to go to the bathroom because I was talking with you and I’ve got
to run or I’m going to explode.
But, that’s O.K. Carl can run with it. Really? Oh, god! Thanks. Oh, god. Oh,
god. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. I can hold it for a minute more. The
key to a lot of this is understanding what I called in 1985 and I think I’ll call it
something else now --- the moving parade. The neat escalator of life. The cycle
of life. It’s that we’re going through constant change. Remember I was talking to
you the other day. I was talking outside about how you’ll get epiphany at a
different time and from a different person or event or experience on the stage, at

the table, in the outside, going to the john, talking to somebody at lunch. I don’t
care which it is. I just know with certainty that by the end of today or earlier that
it will be. Does that make sense to you?
I impute the same belief system in what we’re doing. I don’t care if it’s e-mail 1,
2, 3, 4, 5, the combination, the audacity, whatever. It’s just that we have the
certainty we’re not going to let them……………we’re going to polarize. We’re
not going to let you off the hook until you do one of two things: Either submit or
evict us. I mean, literally. Is that a good prelude? Mac, is that a good prelude?
Mac: I don’t know.
Jay: Why don’t you interview Carl while I go to the bathroom?
Mac: Go before you float away.
Jay: O.K.
Mac: I’m going to interview Carl because Carl is not a presenter of this kind. This is a
totally must be awesome experience being up here in front of all this talent and
energy and want and need and sharing and everything else because to give
you….. If you don’t mind I’ll walk you through a couple of things. First, of all,
if you don’t mind, would you share with us how you got to be here?
Carl: Well, Mac, what I did before was I worked in a nuclear power industry. I had an
engineering consulting company. And when you’re working in engineering
you’re trained to be negative. So I decided I really needed to change my outlook
on life to be able to think positive. Because when you’re in business you have to
think positive. So I went to Tony Robbins and went through all of Tony Robbins’
training programs, first as a participant and then as a trainer. That was a very
expensive hobby but it was very worthwhile because I went from a person who
could not supervise people to supervising sixty-three of my competitor’s
employees.
And then after that Tony recommended I meet Jay when I was at Financial
Mastery. I met Jay and then I went to one of Jay’s programs just like the one
we’re doing here as a participant. I paid five thousand dollars like each of you
and I really was very enthused about Jay’s material but I thought it wasn’t
organized. I thought I could organize it down to about one-tenth of what it was. I
didn’t really understand Jay’s material, obviously. So that was my purpose then
of getting with Jay was to teach him how to organize his material. I didn’t realize
there was a purpose in what he was doing.
Mac: What did you do with your job?

Carl: Well Mac, after I met Jay I decided I really wanted to do marketing full time. So
I simply changed careers. What I did was I went to work for Jay for three years
and then after that I actually have done joint ventures for the last five years. So I
totally changed my career after I met Jay.
Mac: First of all, excuse me, but you hung around for a while. And you just did stuff to
learn. You didn’t get paid. I don’t know for what period. I don’t really care to
know. For a long time you invested in just walking in his shoes. Right?
Carl: Right.
Mac: And then what happened? They needed bodies at one point or they did something
where you be useful and you were there.
Carl: Mac, I worked as a telemarketer for Jay for a while. It was something I was not
really trained to do. And, in fact, I was by far the worst telemarketer they’d ever
had. And they really didn’t want me to help them in this operation but I kept
bugging them. I sent out another letter, a fax, a phone call and I just keep bugging
them for a number of weeks and they finally decided it was easier to let me…..to
prove to me I couldn’t handle working for them. They figured after two weeks
I’d quit. But I was not ………..I wanted to really do this and so after six months I
was, by far, the best salesman they’d ever had.
Mac: Motivation and want, need, desire and passion is more important than anything.
What was Jay’s marketing technique at the time you started, which was………
Carl: When we first started it was one-shot marketing, I call it. We’d do general ads. It
would be in Success, Entrepreneur or the magazines like this. And it would be
like sixteen-page inserts. It would be like direct letters from the editors of those
magazines to their people and those were joint venture-type relationships. So we
essentially waited for people to call in and once they called in we explained what
we were doing. And they either bought or they didn’t buy. But it was all
incoming telephone calls.
Mac: What was Jay’s general feeling about the Internet at that time?
Carl: At the time, the Internet was a place where people made money teaching people
how to make money on the Internet. In other words, the only people who were
making money was the people teaching people. And Jay was actually intimidated
by the Internet because of the technology.
Mac: So you went to work on the system and you were analytical at the same you were
working on your skills.
Carl: Right, Mac. What I did was I tested all kinds of inbound and outbound
telemarketing and just leaving messages. All different types of things. It was

more a proactive vs. reactive mode where before I said the other salesmen were
trained to react to incoming calls and then to respond to that. I developed an
outbound marketing program. I did a tremendous amount of testing because the
V.P. that Jay had didn’t care what I did as long as I was doing it with my own
money and I was willing to share the information I learned with him.
Mac: Have you ever been not on performance with Jay?
Carl: No. Initially, it was a small draw but it was essentially a performance all the way.
Mac: So you quit doing business and you’re doing other programs and how are you
selling those?
Carl: Well, what we’re doing now is using a process-type marketing where we’ll send
out a letter, then we’ll call to make sure the people got the letter, then the people
who are interested in it we’ll send them out additional information. So it’s a very
proactive process. We knew that the entrepreneurs out there had excellent
products and services. We knew they had terrible marketing because they were
essentially doing what their competitors were doing. They didn’t understand
marketing. And we knew that the answer was to be able to use Jay’s techniques.
The hard part was to figure how to get that information to them to allow them to
take advantage of it.
Mac: Can I ask a question of you people? How many of this room talked to Carl?
Look around. Man, this guy’s a hard worker. How many of you talked to him
many times more than once? Awesome. Awesome. So you worked on several
programs and you still mostly mail marketing and mail and telemarketing? I call
that telesales, actually. I make a distinction. Telemarketing is a low-skill level,
highly scripted activity, where telesales is a very extremely skillful and dedicated
operation where you need the highest talents in the world to make the connection.
What are the seeds of the technique you used to fill this program come from?
What’s the one thing you added to the mix to make this fly?
Carl: Well, the one thing we added to the mix was to be in constant contact with the
people once they indicated an interest, once they raised their hand. And what we
did we tried to make sure we sent an e-mail to the people once a week and we also
would call people to make sure that they were interested and to give them
additional information. It was a process of giving them more, when people buy,
there’s a process where they buy on emotion but they have to justify it based on
logic. So we give them more and more units of logic and more and more units of
emotion to allow them to buy. That is, we’d get them on the fence and then to
move them off the fence, one way or the other. We didn’t care which way
because we know it’s a numbers game.

Jay: Let me interrupt. But they all have genuine, really priceless value in their right.
That doesn’t mean they don’t have some element of a credible and an equitable
offer of an exchange, either attached to them, really an attachment or preface, but
there’s nothing covert. There’s nothing overt. It’s just pretty straightforward.
And the content…….who got the content we gave away for free? Was it good? I
mean, I pride myself on giving better stuff than most people trash for on the
Internet. And I’m proud of that because I wouldn’t lower myself to that level.
You want to distinguish yourself. But we give great content.
Mac: You see, he’s so immersed in it. What do you call the system?
Carl: It’s the “drip process”.
Mac: Why “drip”?
Carl: It’s where we just keep in constant contact with people and once they express
interest giving them additional ways to look at what they’re trying to do and
feedback on how they can become more successful and solve their problems
utilizing our product.
Mac: What would you have done before the advent of fairly universal e-mail? How
would you have done the same follow up?
Carl: It’s hard to describe how you would do the same drip process now. But what I
would do before then was once somebody expressed interest, I would typically
follow up with thirteen and either leave messages or talk with them and I’d leave
up to thirteen messages to make sure that they knew that I was really serious
about talking with them if they had bought.
Now if they hadn’t bought I would only leave five messages before I said, “Well,
I won’t follow up any more.”
Mac: What would be the relative response rate on that?
Carl: It used to be we would convert about one percent of the people who expressed an
interest in something like this. Now with this method here we convert about ten
percent of the people who express an interest.
Jay: Carl is one of the most remarkable people in the world in that he takes the
philosophy, the ideology and the whole concept of consultative marketing to not
an art form but to the “nth” degree because he can’t not let you come. From every
filament in his heart, he knows how much lessened your business would be if he
allowed you to pass. That when you say no, you don’t really mean no. When you
say I don’t think so, you don’t really……….. You just haven’t thought on it.

How many have gotten more than one call from Carl Turner? How many sensed
that he was sincere on that call? How many sensed that he had your best interest
more at heart than his? O.K. The ones that didn’t you didn’t really understand
him because he does. He’ll call me and he’ll say, “This person shouldn’t be here.
This person can’t afford it or it’s marginal because it might not be right for them
but I want them to experience it.” I think it also stems from not an attitude but a
belief system, Mac, don’t you think.
Mac: One of the things that was out of here and they did it so seamlessly, one of the
myths that was circulating around in the last couple of years was that e-mail and
Internet marketing was different qualitatively and quantitatively different than
everything that Jay has taught over the years. It was different. You didn’t have
to do “that”. None of it mattered. There was no value. You didn’t do value
propositions. You just got edgy and sticky and all other sorts of stuff. But you
didn’t have to work on value propositions. You did it as short as possible. It was
all supposed to be all online.
How many of the leads were generated online out of the group you worked?
Carl: Mac, there was about four thousand that were generated online and two thousand
that were generated through the normal print media.
Mac: And was there any difference in the conversion from online vs. print solicitation?
Did you do an analysis on that?
Carl: The difference between the conversion rate and the online leads and the leads
from print solicitation was that we would do probably about four times better
from the ones that were from the print but we got twice as many from the online.
So the result was that an online lead was just about as good as an offline lead.
Jay: But I might say this to you, Mac. When we did the P.E.Q. before something
like….prior to this we did the P.E.Q. I had twelve thousand e-mails when we
started. We did we generate over the cumulative process, seventy-five hundred
leads?
Carl: Yeah.
Jay: So let me say it again. We started with a twelve thousand e-mail list and how
many e-mails and sequences did we sent out? Twenty, twenty-three?
Carl: I think it was closer to thirty.
Jay: O.K. So we sent thirty sequences of communication out to twelve thousand e-

mails and we got………

Mac: How much print……..how much…..
Jay: One thing. I didn’t work. Did it? The home study. We did a mailing piece that
we spent $20,000 on for P.E.Q. It pulled………….guess how many people it
pulled?
Voice: Zero!
Jay: You stole my thunder! Couldn’t you just save that one for when I came back
from the bathroom? O.K. So you already told them the whole story.
Carl: No.
Jay: O.K. So everybody except Carl and I thought, “Woe is me. It’s all over.” And I
said, “No, it’s just going to take a little different approach. We’re going to have
to do it sequentially. We would love it if the people would come rolling in and
writing their checks. But we’re going to have to achieve it from a force multiplier
effect.” And then we sat down and we kept doing it. Every time we did it
anything, Carl already said this, we thought, “How can we redeploy that?” We
did a report and we thought, “Well, enough people didn’t get that.” So we sent an
e-mail and said, “You didn’t really get that this report was so different that we’re
not going to let you off the hook because you’ll kick yourself and you’ll be mad at
us. So we’re offering it again.”
Mac: And all you have to do is call us to get it.
Jay: Yeah, did you already explain our experience on that?
Mac: No.
Carl: No.
Jay: When e-mail first came out and when the Internet first came out everyone said
you make it easy. They go to the website site and it’s famous and it’s anonymous.
And we tried that. We got fourteen thousand people to the website and two
bought.
Carl: Twelve.
Jay: Oh, excuse me. Twelve bought. We thought, “I don’t like that.” So we decided,
“Let’s make people more accountable. Let’s get a higher quality lead or prospect.
We don’t care about quantity. So we decided before you could get the report,
before you get the confidential private website, you had to contact Carl by phone
or by e-mail and you had to give him all your contact. And if you wouldn’t, that’s
O.K. We won’t give you something that’s valuable. We understand. No
problem. No hard feelings.

Mac: And there were several reasons for that. Right. One is just establishing rapport.
And the other is the technical reason that you couldn’t blast e-mail a gigabyte file
without having everybody hate you.
Carl: Yes.
Jay: Yes. I think that’s right. But we had some elements. So we started doing stuff.
And we started with a report. And then we thought not enough people got how
good it was. So we stated it from a different place, different ways. And we sent it
again and again. And then after they got the report, we decided a lot of people
would like to hear how it worked in real life. So we got Chet on the phone with
me. Then we had done, in the beginning, we actually did a live program. And it
was “killer”. And then we basically summarized the live program and we made
an offer of the summary of it. Then we invited people to be on a conference call
and we had tons of people. Then we offered a tape of the conference call. Then
we offered a transcript of the conference call. Then we offered a Q&A session
separate conference call. Then we offered _______________. And we just kept
redeploying. And we took the attitude that I think………
Let’s go back to my exercise when about a fourth of each room read the same
book analysis and a fourth of this room, there’s a hundred and twenty-five people,
a hundred of you got something different out of it. Does that make sense?
Well, a hundred out of a hundred and twenty-five with different interpretive

places on the continuum and our letters…………if I’m guilty of anything, I could
probably make them shorter and I’m guilty of that adage that I probably didn’t
probably edit it. But I wouldn’t make them as terse as most people think because
they wouldn’t work. I think if you’re heartfelt, sincere and you tell the story and
you let them in on the method to your madness, they really appreciate that. I
mean, most people tell me they’ve never gotten e-mails like mine. And I, frankly,
don’t set out to make them special. I just write them from the heart. Don’t you
think?
Mac: I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve talked to over the years that say, “I’m a
student of Jay Abraham’s.” “You are? Have you ever gone to one of the
programs? No. I’ve been getting his mailings for years.”
Jay: We, actually………..it’s not a joke, we had a idea last year of sending out letters
saying, “You’ve got to pay us four hundred dollars to keep getting our mails and
e-mail and we’ll apply it to anything you buy.” How many people have a Jay
Abraham file that they’ve been keeping? Well, it’s a smaller representation than
normal. Normally, I’ll get three-quarters of the people say, “I’ve got two file
cabinets full of your stuff.” And I’ll say, “I know. I expect that. You know,
people use me as their model. But’s that O.K.” That’s inclusive.

The most tragic thing I ever feel is when people do subscribe to my stuff. I feel
very lost because we are one of the few people who have the willingness, the
openness, the daringness to try all kinds of things. And I would think I am the
greatest modelable person. I’m not trying to sound egotistical. I don’t wrote it all
out in the e-mail --- if you can’t take…….. It’s funny, when I did the………I’m
switching over but when I did the request for case studies you’re not on the e-mail
list that often are you, Mac? I ended up with……….we had eighteen thousand
people. We did an e-mail asking for case studies describing them. We got a
hundred a fifty. And everyone was excited because they were good case studies.
I said, “That’s terrible.” I wrote them back and said, “You guys don’t get it. I
don’t believe there’s only a hundred and fifty case studies in this. I want more
and I want them by Friday. And I got two hundred and fifty more. And then I
thought, “This is not enough.” So I went back again and I did it from another
focal point. I said, “Maybe I didn’t say this correctly. You give me a case study
telling how you made money and the one big idea I’m going to share with you
maybe a thousand different ones like it but not from that vantage point. And
you’re going to be able to find fifty or a hundred of them that are just going to
blow your mind and probably make you millions of dollars. And you’re going to
get that just from sitting down and taking the time to spend ten minutes telling me
about your success. And I got like two hundred and fifty more.
Mac: Can I share with you one little thing that I’ve learned from Jay? It’s the biggest
thing ever. And if you walk away with just this it’s the most powerful thing in the
world --- is: Never accept practical, reasonable, realistic results.
And he makes you not accept them either. And if you don’t, they get better.
Jay: Well, I will tell you truthfully, I am disappointed because I expected seven
hundred people. And I’m very up front with Carl, but I’m a little disappointed
because I wanted him to have five hundred or two thousand. And he only got
four hundred and fifty.
Mac: He’s not fun to be around all the time.
Jay: I pushed because….it’s hilarious. My hair stylist says I’m his most favorite and
him most feared client because I don’t accept his haircut. You’ve been there
when……because we have meetings when I get my haircut. And what do I do,
Carl?
Carl: You always tell him to do better.
Jay: I said, “That’s enough Michael. Let’s cut it this way. I said are you really happy?
Do you want me to be your poster boy? Are you happy with this? Are do you
want this to grow out?” I said, “Is this really what you want people to think
about?” And they’ll think, “Well, that guy’s not very well groomed.” And then
we say, “Michael J cut it.” And I get a great haircut. Because I challenge to

perform at a higher level. I challenge the marketplace to respond at a higher level

because it’s in their best interest. Now I don’t know if you could do that if you
didn’t believe with every filament of your being in the value, the virtue, the
benefit, the enormous and the priceless worth of what you render.
Carl: Yeah. I’ll give you an example of this. When we were doing the P.E.Q. we were
talking about the number of home studies we could do. I said we could do fifty.
Chet said we could do a hundred. So we went to Jay and asked him what he
thought and he said, “We’ll do five hundred.” Guess how many we did. Five
hundred.
Jay: Well, actually, we didn’t. We did eight hundred but we plan into our expectation
attrition. If you don’t have attrition, that’s not something you’d necessarily be
proud about it. That means you’re not stretching the envelope wide enough. If
you have too much, it’s terrible but if you have none or not enough, it’s equally as
terrible because you’re not stretching. You want to get up to marginality because
you wouldn’t have people who maybe are on the cusp. Does that make sense?
We lost two percent of you on yesterday at 2:00. Of the two percent, about thirty
percent converted to a home study. Of the remaining 1.4% two of them I talked
to were anal closed-minded and they didn’t “get” it. And they should have left
because it would have been a waste of their money. Because if they stayed and
paid, there would have done nothing with it and they would have ended having an
atrocious attitude. Now they’ve gotten me for $12,000 worth of goods, which
they didn’t steal from me. That was our deal and they got a day and a half and
they can’t…….if they say anything negative, they’ve got……. What normally
happens with this is two or three years from today, you’ll see a smiling face in the
back saying, “I’m embarrassed. I owe you $5,000 more because I made $25,000
or $150,000.” And we know that’ll end up with goodwill. Don’t we? So it’ll
make us more money than you can imagine. But our attitude isn’t even worrying
about those people. It’s worrying about you. I’m trying to give you a mindset. I
mean, I said to somebody at the break --- I’m a little bit eager to give you more
technique but I gave you in twenty-five pounds worth of free stuff and probably a
thousand pounds worth of other stuff, more techniques than you’ll need in your
life. But without the mindset, without the philosophy, without the ideological
approach and I probably should definitely do the Nine Drivers but it’s useless.
We’re trying to really strip ourselves naked. We actually took the time --- I hope
Mac told you --- to publish most of all the e-mails we used successably. I don’t
know. WE didn’t put any of the letters in there did we?
Carl: Not the letters.
Jay: But we put like twenty-five e-mails for P.E.Q. and just so you know this, we gave
you the secret about eight million dollars worth of sales we generated and you
may or may not want to emulate it or replicate it or model it. If you’re, hopefully,

better you can innovate it and do even better with it. But there’s a hell of a
template.
Mac: As you can see, it’s not about e-mail. It’s about marketing. It’s about adding
value and adding credibility.
Jay: What else should I say?
Mac: There is technique involved. I don’t know and, obviously……..
Jay: It starts with……I discipline my mind to constantly think of two things. In the
concept of sequence, it’s: What’s the next layer? What’s the next level of ….I
was reading the notes from the Strategy of Preeminence and what’s the next step
to graduate them forward? What I am not connecting for them? What are they
thinking? I try very hard. Not like uhhhhh! I’ve got a natural levity. Well, like,
I wonder what I would be thinking if I’d gotten this and this. I wonder what sort
of would keep me. I wonder where my mind would be devoted. What……….. I
also do that and then I think, not to be audacious for audacity’s purpose but to be
audacious just to break their paradigm so they will stop for a moment and reflect
differently. I’ll think, “Well, what approach will just blow their mind and then tie
in.” And I do things that no one else does.
I don’t want people to try to basically be doing this from the get go wondering
where I’m going to basically take advantage of them. I want to tell them up front
exactly I’m going to do, why I’m going to do it, what I expect to happen if I’m
correct, what won’t happen if I’m not, why it’s totally incumbent on me to
perform and why they should just go along for the ride and put their defenses
down. And I don’t think most people think to do that. They think that there’s
something weird about doing that. I think that’s so natural. Don’t you think,
Mac?
Mac: Well, I think if there’s a lesson for you --- I’m not in the seminar business. I hope
you’re not saying that. But if you are, the lesson is this: Small incremental
improvements leveraged by technology all of a sudden become unbelievable
breakthroughs. Truly unbelievable breakthroughs. You can see nothing they did,
in and of itself, was absolutely “the key”. They just kept working on it.
Jay: Well, one thing was: It was a belief system was the key.
Mac: And a belief system that they could do and would do it and would find a channel
in a way and their knowledge of their clients and their marketplace.
Jay: And then I’ll tell you one good thing that happened. And this was not audacity.
But once we manifest our vision then, when momentum started really working,
we utilized it with candorous honesty to our positioning advantage. Because we

just said, “Here’s the truth.” And it should have come across as dead serious
because I did a conference call on one call. It was not trying to be arrogant.
I said, “Here’s the deal, guys. This is the first one I’ve done in seven years. I’m a
better point than I’ve ever been. I’ve got more I want to share. I like people at a
higher level. I’ve experienced more things more ways. We figured out the real
way to make the Internet work. I know how to add an efficient way to get you not
just marketing knowledge, but get you the strategic implementation to do it. And
so I’m going to have the room filled. It’s a matter of whether it’ll be you or
somebody else and that’s the God’s honest truth.
And since there’s no downside, if you don’t avail yourself of it, shame on you.
And I was very sincere. And I think that sincerity…………
Mac: Rick has a couple of things…………
Jay: Sure. Go ahead. It’s not about how great we are. We’re trying to transform your
mindset a little bit.
Carl: This’ll work for you, too.
Rick: A lot of times being an entrepreneur you’re always focused on who’s got my list.
Who’s got my list? And one of the things, Carl, that I’d like you to talk about is
the state you were in when you went in and started working on the Mastermind. I
don’t want to put words in your mouth but didn’t you call Jay’s list petrified list,
like it was tough?
Carl: Yeah.
Rick: And then you found…………worked.
Voice: How did you work it?
Jay: Stop. How many in this audience really didn’t think they were going to buy
another thing from me again? Raise your hand. We thought different. Not
because of us --- because we thought you weren’t there yet. Because Carl would
tell me, “I’m trying to sell things and they’d say, ‘I already know that.’” I’d say,
“Great, Carl. Ask them how many strategic alliances, how many referral systems,
how many ‘this’.” And he’d say, “They’re embarrassed and they’ve done none.”
And we thought we owed you not letting you off the hook.
Rick: And could you integrate what you’re talking about with either the Parthenon
Principle or the Force Multiplier Effect?
Jay: Is that a yes or no question? Yes I could, Rick.

Rick: And will you?
Jay: O.K. Let’s take Force Multiplier. So where’s our Colonel for a minute? Where’s
our retired Colonel?
Voice: Major.
Jay: Major. Pardon me. Who’s our Brigadier General? Come on up. There’s mikes
up here. You can borrow one of ours. Now in the service, what did you do.
Major: I was a Major. On active duty I was on M1 tanks and then went A1 tanks.
Jay: That’s probably going to be perfect.
Major: Yeah, I know Force Multiplier.
Jay: O.K. So I want to talk about warfare. O.K.?
Major: O.K.
Jay: You probably know warfare in a more elevated and scientific method than I.
Right?
Major: I understand it pretty well.
Jay: You understand Force Multiplier effect.
Major: Sure.
Jay: Could you explain it first and then let me try to translate it from the militaristic
standpoint about trying to not just impact but knock down and decimate the target,
the enemy, whatever it is, once and for all and why you don’t care how it’s done -
-- just that it’s done.
Major: Sure. As you’re attacking an objective, you’re usually given an objective in the
military and typically what you do is you take your own assets that you’ve been
given and you determine how you’re going to deploy your own assets. The thing
that happens next is your boss says, “I can give you these additional assets if you
can deploy them properly. And there’s a whole host of other things that do along
with it. I shouldn’t have ran up here. Anyways, what happens is, once you get
those assets, you sit and you decide how I’m going to bring all these assets to bear
at the exact same precise moment in time because as I assault the objective, if I
have been given artillery, which is not an organic asset to me --- if I’ve been
given artillery, if I’ve been air defense, if I’ve been given air, it’s called CAST
plus air support, if I’ve been given helicopters --- how I am going to bring all

these things to bear on that asset at the exact same time that my soldiers come
streaming across the hilltop and start popping caps at the enemies?
Jay: And one more thing. And your goal is to knock down and decimate the target.
And while it would be great that the bombs would do it or the foot soldiers would
do it or the tanks would do it, you really don’t ultimately care which one does it --
- you just want to do it.
Major: Yeah, I want it leveled when I’m done.
Jay: Give us some more perspectives. Is there anything else? You don’t have to be. I
was just wondering if there was anything attitudinal or psychological.
Major: It’s wildly psychological. That’s a good point Because first of all, when you see
an M1 tank from the other end of the muzzle, that generally sucks. But when you
see Apache helicopters coming across. I’ve got buddies that flew those and Cobra
gunships and an A10 Warthog blasting…………..
Jay: All at the same time.
Major: Yeah, all at the same time.
Jay: It’s not a pretty picture.
Major: There’s a reason why ten years ago those yeahoos got up out of their foxholes and
started walking en masse to “Jay Abraham’s” so to speak. And the same thing
happens in marketing so……….
Jay: That’s going to be very helpful. I think that answers it doesn’t it? Thank you.
Thank you. Probably better than I would have. That’s a great visual. Thank you
so very much. O.K. We knocked that one down. Right.
Rick: Do five Q&A.
Jay: Anybody got a question? Got to a mike. Only one question? I must have either
been very interesting or very boring.
Voice1: Boring.
Jay: Call it as you see it. He’s just joking.
Voice 2: I’ve got to ask one question. One comment about Carl. I’m on the East Coast
and I get all these e-mails and then one from Judith Garth with a telephone
number in it. At 8:30 in the morning, I called this number.
Jay: At 8:30 your morning.

Voice 2: At 8:30 my morning.
Jay: And he answers.
Voice 2: And Carl answered. That’s 5:30…………
Jay: Let me give you a perspective and it’s good and bad. This is an exercise in how
to do something and also how not to do something. Carl is an amazing man. I’m
not really in the seminar business anymore. I’m looking for those twenty of you
that want to do deals either with Chet or and businesses I can get involved in and
equities I can make and wealth I can create as an asset and stream for wife. But
I’ve got such a knowledge base and most of you couldn’t afford me and most of
you I’ll never be able to help so we’ll do a seminar occasionally for four or five
reasons which I’ve already shared. 1.) It’s a great wonderful ethical way to find
clients. 2.) It’s a great way to pay the overhead. 3.) It’s a great way for me to
keep my proficiency and learn from all of you.
Carl is remarkable. Carl is so loyal. HE loves doing this. Carl is the sales force
because we’re really not in the seminar business, are we? We sort of do a
promotion and Carl’s like into it and then he’ll go off for two months and chill
out. He’s on fumes. He’s being doing this because he loves it. I wouldn’t
suggest you do that because you’ll burn out your normal staff. But it shows you
how much higher is capable from human performance.
Voice 2: I do not read if it goes past one page: But I’m hearing here that long e-
mails help.
Jay: They work for us very effectively. What is your business, sir?
Voice 2: I sell several things but air purifiers, water purifiers.
Jay: All over the country?
Voice 2: All over the country.
Jay: I’d rather not, now, because when we’re done with this we’re going to do some
exercises between now and eight or nine at night, which will be much more
specific, interactive and Q&A or problem solution or scenario and strategy/tactics
will answer it. But you have an optimum. It may be that you don’t read them but
somebody does and maybe you have use your e-mail as a staged effect. But I’ll
tell you what…………..
Mac: Here’s a little secret. Hardly anybody reads them all through.
Jay: Yeah. It doesn’t matter.

Mac: It doesn’t matter because the evidence, the proof and the case is there and you can
see that as you scroll through it or you flip through it. And you go, “Look at the
supporting evidence here. Look at the detail they’ve taken.” You go, “I’ll just cut
to the chase,” and you go to the end. And a lot of people go from the beginning to
the end. It’s the fact that it is there, if you want to pick it up, that is important.
You can’t necessarily force everybody to read everything is sequence. That’s not
the issue. The issue is are you giving, are you answering every question that is
being asked, that somebody needs to go further. Can they find it if they need it?
If they trust your guarantee, if they trust your risk reversal on the front end, then
let’s say all of this is irrelevant because it’s risk reversed. But it’s there if they
want to answer the question.
Voice 2: So it is probably that………..
Jay: Only one question, only one right now because I want to get all through. Please?
Thank you. You’ll probably have more time. I sorry to be rude but I just want to
get as many people because I’ve got a lot of ground to cover.
What? Just two more? O.K. But the ones that had them. We’ll give you a
chance to ask them. O.K. Just in this segment, we’re going to have to end.
Voice 3: Why didn’t you use html e-mail and do you think you would have increased
your qualified lead rate?
Jay: Why didn’t I?
Voice 3: Yes.
Jay: Because somebody whose name I won’t mention urged me to html and said that
would change everything. We did it and we got less response and more
complaints because it was less integrity. I’m not saying you guys can’t. My
voice, my communication, my style --- it may be wrong. You may think it’s
hypy. But it’s pure and it’s straightforward and it’s more understated, homespun.
Don’t you think, Mac?
Mac: This is why you have to test.
Jay: Try a _____ that’s right for you. My style……….
Mac: I know some businesses that are totally opposite………..
Jay: And they get great results. And they test a real long one. But we’ve built………
You’ve got to realize one thing. What you are doing………remember when
Guerulan said….. He basically invites the people he wants and he disinvites the
ones he doesn’t want. Well, your strategy is going to create the people who either

like long or short just by the way you do it. And Force Multiplier may bring a
combination which you integrate together and bring through. A number of people
have told me that my training and my written stuff
--- end of Side One of tape ---
as powerful as it is, isn’t really maximizing educational approaches and so while

it appeals to one segment, it probably unappeals to two or three others. I’m sure
it’s true. Right now I’m content that I attract a certain category that’s in this room
and turn off another category. And it’s the ones that aren’t in this room and the
ones that left. But you’ve got to realize that whatever style you take, unless you
hedge…… You see, we try to do bunches of different things. But I only know,
this is also prejudiced. My prejudice --- I came from environments where I had
to be able to dimensionalize, articulate, demonstrably validate, imbue enormous
tangible and intangible worth to a lot of intangible things --- newsletters,
investment forums people had never had. So I had to become the art….. I sold
…..I mean, I’m very proud. Remember, when we sold…. I sold like two million
dollars worth of Salvador Dalis, Lincoln and Dalivision without ever having a
picture.
Mac: Without a print. Without a picture.
Jay: No one ever saw a picture. I’m serious. I described it. I described the effect. I
described how cool it was. I titillated on the fact that you look through this thing,
you look at a woman’s butt and you see Christ. It was sort of a weird concept.
And I thought……but I did it with more eloquence. And I titillated. I explained
it. I desensationalized it. I revered it. I compared it. But I even learned how to
do that early in my career. So that prejudiced follows through. I’m a little bit of a
hypocrite because if I was taking it full force, we would short ones. We would do
everything. I’m a little bit lazier…… I’ve got to tell you this. For a person with
no real staff anymore, we do a lot of shit. Don’t we?
Carl: Yes.
Jay: You have no idea how much stuff we do. And I have…………
Mac: And you’ve had real staff.
Jay: I have an attitude that’s pretty neat. Remember at the eX!Factor? I was talking
last night to Edwin Neal and his wife and a group. I don’t manage particularly
well, which is no great surprise to you. But I learned how to get the effect of
billions of dollars worth of really good managers and capital. Somebody said to
me, “Jay, what’s your strategy of management.” I said, “It’s real simple. It’s
called: Do a strategic alliance with somebody who’s got two hundred to five

hundred employees and has a need to keep the payroll made and the cash flowing
about ten times more than I and I’ll be glad to run with my ball.
So I have lots of people that do stuff with me. Carl is not an employee. He is a
joint venture partner. The thing I forgot. This is self-serving. Maybe you’ve got
really nice entrepreneurial list of e-mails, I want to know about it because we’ve
got the hottest e-mail offer, which is sort of funny since I don’t turn my computer
on. We made seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars with one person working
out of his house just setting up e-mails with list and we pull six dollars a name, in
the good ones, which is pretty impressive. We don’t purport to understand e-
mails but we understand marketing pretty good.
Voice 4: One more question. I had a math question. If you could expound on the model
in which you got all of us here. Carl, you were talking about briefly, initially.
About how many e-mails you sent out, how many e-mail lists and addresses you
got ………….
Mac: Actually, one of the things Rick asked Jay to touch on and it’s not a Carl question.
It’s more of a Jay question, I think, is the front end affinity of a joint venture.
And what that does to the dynamic.
Jay: O.K. We’re going to talk about JVs sometime between now and three in the
morning, so I’ll do it now --- a little bit. You think I’m kidding? I called my wife
and said, “Chris, I don’t think I’ll be home tonight.” She said, “What time will
you be done?” I said, “Ten, eleven, twelve, one or two.” She said, “Are you
serious?” I said, “Oh, probably three.”
O.K. So, I believe that a strategic alliance, a host beneficiary. Somebody asked
me one time, “If I took every one of your concepts away from you but one and
you have to live or die on that one the rest of your life, what would that be?” I
said, “There’s no question. It would be strategic alliances. Host/beneficiary.”
They said, “Why?” I said, “Because somebody else spends a lifetime, ten years,
enormous amount of human and financial capital, effort, identifying, going to
huge audiences to find a few that resonate with them, committing themselves over
and over again transaction by transaction, month by month to keep goodwill and
keep advancing and regenerating that, spending tens, hundreds, thousands,
millions of dollars every month, quarter, year on staff to fulfill and technology to
do it, to research, on production. And I get able to come in and either for
underwriting the cost of a letter or for basically making a profit deal of some kind,
get access to e-mails that may have cost them a hundred million. I told you guys
got a five hundred thousand dollar unintended gift from me with that list.
And by the way, if any of you get any solicitation from that list that didn’t
emanate from me and it’s a solicitation because we will smite that person with the
full force of our negative karma.

But I have an advantage most people don’t. And this is true. But this was part of
my strategy from the beginning. As you can see, I’m not saying it for you guys to
say, “Oh, you’re so great.” I have invested in, created and enjoy the wonderful
pleasure of having a reasonably substantial amount of goodwill accrued around
the world. And that’s always my plan. I was going to invest forward. If nothing
ever came, I’d still get a payoff someday, somehow, somewhere. I could help
people. It’s like I have in this room probably fifty of my ex-clients or good
friends that I insisted on buying an attendance for and I took a quarter million
dollars out of Carl and my pocket when we had a configuration that we thought
would be overfilled. Because I couldn’t not let them be here. How many people
are here as a guest of mine --- that I hounded you to come even though I took
money out of my pocket. A lot. And some of you are being awed. But a lot of
people because I felt that it was the thing to do. Well, I believe in helping. Brian
Tracy. I’ve gone and helped him two or three times. All the people here I’ve
helped. A lot of them have paid me. A lot of them are joint venture. I have an
ability. I’m starting with that so I’m making it a little easier.
I can go to somebody who has either benefited from my services or has a

relationship with me and I can get them to basically do about anything because:
1.) they know I’m not going to ask them to do something that isn’t in their
client’s best interest
2.) they will benefit but their clients will benefit more
3.) I won’t ever breach the integrity or the sanctity and I’ll do it right.
4.) I can go to almost anybody else in the entrepreneurial arena and odds
are if they’re entrepreneurial they know of me or my reputation, which
is pretty good. I got a hundred and eighty-eight matches on Google and
there’s probably a couple of people that have spent five thousand or
even twenty-five thousand and did nothing with it and blamed me, not
themselves. But most of it’s pretty darned good.
5.) If they don’t know me, I can normally have a conversation with them in
an hour or so and give them so much value that they’re honor bound to
reciprocate. But our attitude, which should be yours is: There’s tons of
people out there that have already spent a fortune and more time and
more goodwill and more human capital to build the relationship, why
not figure a way to collaborate with them. And I don’t have time on this
little segment to get to the nuances but I’d be delighted to do it when we
come back or we’re done with this.
There’s two things. Of a hundred percent of the people in this room, how many
came from other people’s lists, as a percent.
Carl: Approximately a hundred.
Mac: Came from where, Jay? I don’t think people……..
Jay: Other people’s lists?

Carl: Approximately a hundred.
Jay: Around a hundred. But incrementally that’s a half a million dollars we wouldn’t
have had it we didn’t do it. And that’s also…………
Mac: But your list is more composed of people who came in, initially, on joint ventures.
Jay: That’s what I was going to say. Ninety-nine percent of you guys……….who’s a
previous Jay Abraham product or attendee buyer. Keep it up. Only put it down if
you got an ad in the outside market. If you come from any endorsement, keep it
up.
Voice: What?
Jay: O.K. Put it down. I’ll do it a different way.
Mac: Somebody else recommended you.
Jay: If you first came to me because somebody you had a relationship with, a Tony
Robbins, a Nightingale Conant, a Gary North, a Phillips Publishing, an Agora
Publishing --- if some organization or entity endorsed me in the very beginning
when you started a relationship. If that was the case raise your hand. O.K. Stand
up. Go to the wall. You know, this may sound like it’s an ex………..but I want
to make a visual. I want this to always be indelibly imbedded. I’m sorry to you
all but I think you’ll appreciate that I’m doing this. Don’t you think, Mac?
Mac: I’m appreciating it.
Jay: O.K. So if I just ran ads in the paper. If I just rented lists from the outside market
and did nothing else.
Mac: My guess is half the people sitting down just don’t know how they got it.
Jay: I’ll bet you’re right. Did you start your relationship by reading an ad in the
outside newspaper or did you get a letter or an e-mail about me from somebody
you had a relationship with. Think again before we do the count. Because if you
did, go to the wall.
O.K. Don’t count the people at the seats. Count the people around the room
times, not five thousand dollars……… How many people in this room have
bought more than this from me. Raise your hand. How many in this room have
been at least to a live or home study course in the past. Raise your hand. O.K.
So, the average person………we have forty thousand people on our old list,
which most of you came from that spent about ninety million dollars with us.

Probably conceivably, of the forty thousand thirty-two thousand who probably

spent eighty million dollars wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for what?
Mac: You know, Wall Street Journal had a special settlement on business education and
they had a lot of numbers from various university programs and stuff. I started to
add them up and their fees and stuff. Jay had trained more people and made
infinitely more money for everybody with bigger results than all the university
programs put together. I’m not talking about undergraduate education. Post
business, executive, small business. It was incredible how small some of those
programs were with all the clout that Wharton has, for instance.
Jay: And, Mac, only because we’re only…….
Mac: We’re driving everybody……..
Jay: We’re only two minutes behind on our schedule. I’m not doing this to show you
how great I am. I’m trying to show you opportunities for yourself. Do you
clearly get that? Now, one thing I need to as you’re going back to the mike.
We’re done with this session but we’ve got to move into the next one. How many
people standing up got something, maybe not profound, but impactful out of what
we just talked about? O.K. I need about seven of you at each side to stay at the
mike and the rest of you sit down. Whatever the rest of you who got something,
you’ve got to tell people what that is at the break or at lunch, whichever comes
first.
Mac: Or comes at all.

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Sequential Marketing

From MMT December 2002

Jay: And I have always been of the mindset…

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 1 www.abraham.com

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 2 www.abraham.com

Mac: I don’t know.

Jay: Why don’t you interview Carl while I go to the bathroom?

Mac: Go before you float away.

Mac: What did you do with your job?

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 3 www.abraham.com

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 4 www.abraham.com

Mac: Have you ever been not on performance with Jay?

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 5 www.abraham.com

Carl: It’s the “drip process”.

Mac: Why “drip”?

Mac: What would be the relative response rate on that?

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 6 www.abraham.com

Carl: I think it was closer to thirty.

Jay: O.K. So we sent thirty sequences of communication out to twelve thousand e-

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 7 www.abraham.com

Mac: How much print……..how much…..

Mac: And all you have to do is call us to get it.

Jay: Yeah, did you already explain our experience on that?

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 8 www.abraham.com

Well, a hundred out of a hundred and twenty-five with different interpretive

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 9 www.abraham.com

Mac: He’s not fun to be around all the time.

Carl: You always tell him to do better.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 10 www.abraham.com

perform at a higher level. I challenge the marketplace to respond at a higher level

Carl: Not the letters.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 11 www.abraham.com

Jay: What else should I say?

Mac: There is technique involved. I don’t know and, obviously……..

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 12 www.abraham.com

Mac: Rick has a couple of things…………

Carl: This’ll work for you, too.

Rick: And then you found…………worked.

Voice: How did you work it?

Jay: Is that a yes or no question? Yes I could, Rick.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 13 www.abraham.com

Rick: And will you?

Jay: That’s probably going to be perfect.

Major: Yeah, I know Force Multiplier.

Jay: O.K. So I want to talk about warfare. O.K.?

Major: I understand it pretty well.

Jay: You understand Force Multiplier effect.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 14 www.abraham.com

Major: Yeah, I want it leveled when I’m done.

Jay: All at the same time.

Major: Yeah, all at the same time.

Jay: It’s not a pretty picture.

Rick: Do five Q&A.

Jay: Call it as you see it. He’s just joking.

Jay: At 8:30 your morning.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 15 www.abraham.com

Voice 2: At 8:30 my morning.

Jay: And he answers.

Voice 2: And Carl answered. That’s 5:30…………

Voice 2: I sell several things but air purifiers, water purifiers.

Jay: All over the country?

Voice 2: All over the country.

Jay: Yeah. It doesn’t matter.

© 2006 All Rights Reserved 16 www.abraham.com