Transcript

Wesley Pepper: [00:00:00] hi, good afternoon world. Uh Wesley Pepper here. And you're
tuned in to Wesley Pepper's Art Lexica. Yeah. Yeah, man. we're really deep into the year.
Um, and it's like, you know, November already and the year's coming to an end, man. Um, so
yeah. Thanks for tuning in, you know, I'm hope you guys enjoyed, um, last week's podcast
with, um, with Msawenkhosi Bonga Zondo uh, the racial harmony project.

[00:00:46] really interesting project. Um, I've since the last recording haven't heard from him
with, with regards to the publishing of the, um, magazine or the project, let me, let me just
use project that encompasses absolutely everything. But as soon as I do, it will be all over my
socials, you know?

[00:01:05] Um, so you can just follow it, but, um, pickup man, like I, um, I really believe in
what is in what is trying to do. And, um, you know, I'm definitely out there to support him
with whatever, um, No, let's let's, let's let you have I have available. So definitely look out for
that. Okay. And we'll definitely do most, definitely do follow up with him most probably in,
um, I would say more February, March next year.

[00:01:31] Um, you know, to give us some time for the project to, you know, find his roots
and, and, and so forth, but we'll definitely do a follow-up op up with that. So, yeah, man.
Thanks guys. Um, today we're going to take, um, Uh, uh, a different.. or rather we going to
be talking about something different other than art, um, is actually to, uh, uh, um, a good
friend of mine today we talking to Helen Sayers. Now Helen is a very, very interesting lady.

[00:01:54] So I met her when I was doing a very interesting project in Seychelles one year.
And, um, I was there doing, um, a mural, um, or rather I was, um, I ran a workshop and a talk
around, around street art on the Island. And, um, I ended up working was, um, what that
local art collective, we did some really beautiful murals.

[00:02:16] And the whole idea was, um, you know, I was there championing the whole idea,
like, you know, art is a weapon and, you know, art is a doing thing. And Helen, um, because
we were part of the festival. Cultural festival, um, exchange program was going on and Helen
did a, um, she did a series of workshops on, um, on working with Ubuntu.

[00:02:38] So it was hella' crazy man, and very, very interesting because I, um, because of
the program, I remember I could only go to one of her, uh, um, workshops but we spoke
and, you know, we've since connected after that happened multiple times. And I, you know,
I considered her a good friend of mine and, um, I, I. I just want to explain to you the
workshop and then sort of like how we're going to construct today's, um, or other what
today's talk is going to be about.

[00:03:04] Um, So she was using, you know, we were all these mix match of youth. And I
would say young adults in the, in the, in the audience. And she used very, very interesting
creative ways of, of people, um, talking about what bothers them. Um, Um, uh, I actually ran
a bit of a blank, there was a whole host of, but it was really cool.
[00:03:30] Take my word for it. I will definitely explore that a bit later, uh, I ran a total blank
there, but, um, I remember one of the, one of the, one of the exercises was that you had to
just choose somebody at random who we don't know. And I mean, I'm in a foreign country,
so I just use chose somebody sitting right next to me. Yeah. You had to talk to the person for
like a few minutes or I think it was a minute.

[00:03:55] And then based off that sort of write what you like about them or what you enjoy
about them. I found that very interesting because she used different.. You had to use
different markers and you wrote sort of like on a, on a, on a, on, on a postcard type thing.
Very interesting. Very, very, very interesting. So, um, Helen also does a lot, um, I know she
stayed in Oman, um, you know, for the longest time.

[00:04:16] And I see she's based in France now. So we'll, um, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll,
we'll, we'll talk about that. Um, but you know, she published this book also. Um, I think it
was published in about just under 10 years ago. We'll definitely, um, get, get ask her about
that. And, um, in, in, in, in this book she had all these, um, of workshops based off, based off
the concept off the concept of ubuntu, because, because she and many, others were very,
very, very much influenced by what happened in South Africa, post '94 with the TRC and the
whole concept of ubuntu.

[00:04:49] And they based a whole series of workshops, uh, creative workshops, where.. uh,
based of that. and are we going to unpack that and basically talk about, um, how, uh,
because she works a lot with artists, um, a lot and are over artists from different parts of the
world. I know she works with this or she's friend with a very, very interesting sculptor
thinking, uh, East Africa.

[00:05:12] I don't remember the country, but I remember she sharing his works some very
very.. he did this very beautiful wood scuplture. And, um, so we be touching, um, uh, um, or
rather, we will be talking about how, uh, COVID has, uh, affected, um, well creatives, you
know, or rather how our behaviors, um, has been changing but this is behaviours in general,
but for people in general, how its affecting our behaviors and, um, the role that artists can
can play, but sort of on a spiritual, you know.

[00:05:46] not just on just creating art for commercial purposes, because we know that
there's more to art than just that. And, um, I know, I know Helen is incredibly well-versed in
all of that. She's definitely looking forward to it. And, um, we actually haven't spoken in the
longest time, so it's gonna be really cool to, um, do a catch up.

[00:06:02] I know i've spoken to her, uh, I think it was four years ago actually, Four or five
years ago. It's incredible how time flies. So we're definitely looking forward to that. Um, stay
tuned and I hope you guys enjoy it. I'm certainly looking forward to it. And, um, we'll catch
up towards the.. We'll catch up again when, on the outro. So thank you for tuning in.

[00:06:24] There we go. Okay.

[00:06:25] Helen Sayers. so were are recording now. So what are you doing right now?
Where you from that type of thing?
[00:06:45] Helen Sayers: [00:06:45] Well, thank you, Wesley. And, um, and thanks very
much for inviting me onto this podcast. Um, I feel very honored and I'm very happy to, to
share with you. And, um, yes, just a very brief introduction. Um, I'm from the UK, in fact, I'm
from the Island of Jersey. Which is much closer to France than it is to England.

[00:07:11] So I've always had this, um, connection with France and, and now I'm based in
France, but in fact, since um lockdown or since the beginning of all this COVID story, I came
over to visit my parents just for a couple of weeks. And here I still am. Um, so I've been here
now for what is it? Nine months almost in Jersey.

[00:07:36] And, um, apart from two brief visits to France, uh, now I'm sort of based here at
least for the foreseeable future. And, um, and of course my parents are not getting younger.
Mom's 88 and dad's 94 and dad's very disabled. So now I find that I can be useful to them.
Um, I've always felt that I would spend more and more time with them and come and visit
them for longer periods, but COVID changed all of that.

[00:08:06] And, uh, and I'm here as a sort of part-time carer for them. Um, and, uh, so it's a
different chapter in my life and something that I reallynvalue and enjoy. As I'm getting to
know my parents in a way that I would never have got to know them just with brief visits.
And, and of course through that, I'm getting to know aspects of myself even more.

[00:08:30] And, uh, and so it's just made this whole chapter, I think has made me realize that
we can plan to a certain extent, but then there's something called life or drama or whatever
you want to call it, that steps in. And somehow I feel that we have to find what is of benefit
in each of these things that happens to us.

[00:08:57] And like, when I look back on my life, I can see that even the so-called worst
things that happened to me, I learned from them, or I grew from them or something
happened as a result of that. And so I look back and I think every step of the journey has
been a benefit in some way or has led me to where I am now.

[00:09:17] So I'm constantly looking now for benefit in situations that are coming to me and
coming to the people around me. So, so that's where I am now. And of course, if you, like, I
could talk a little bit about my connection with Africa and...

[00:09:35] Wesley Pepper: [00:09:35] Ja, please man. that's sort of where i want us to head
off into anyway. but Helen I actually have a interesting question for you because I was
actually watching this this morning, this morning. Yeah, with regards to the lockdown in
France. So I heard that Macron has recently upped the restrictions. and i know there's a
curfew Um, uh, can you just explain how bad is it? what can you do, what can't you do?

[00:10:03] Helen Sayers: [00:10:03] Um, well you, you're expected to more or less stay at
home most of the time. Uh, you can go out, you have to have a permit. To go out every day,
you can go online and you can download this permit for that day and you can do a central
shopping. You can do, I think, an hour of exercise.

[00:10:20] Um, you know, if you have to go to the pharmacy, you can, but if, if the police
stop you, you have to show them your permit. And I don't know whether it actually gives
the, the time when you left your home. I'm not quite sure exactly how this permit works, but
they are quite strict and people have to, or are expected to abide by it.

[00:10:41] Uh, you can't travel very far even in your car. So it is quite restricting. And I don't
know how for how long that's going to last. And for me, the way that would affect me would
be not only if I. Go back to my little place in France, would I have to sort of more or less stay
in doors, but if I come back to Jersey or probably anywhere in the UK at the moment, I
would then have to go into, um, you know, quarantine for two weeks and I would probably
have to do that in a hotel room somewhere. Oh, excuse me, because I can't come and sit in
my parents' home in quarantine. And so that makes you, that means to me, I'm just going to
hang on in here and wait and see what happens.

[00:11:26] Wesley Pepper: [00:11:26] I saw that there's quite a high infection rate? so is
there, just like in closing man, is there a sense of panic, or rather how does, how is people
perceiving covid? That we'll have to see them? Because, I mean its going on for how many
months now, I'm sure the frustration, I mean, I can relate to that from what's happening. So
Africa, so yeah, just like, like how are people in your part of the world responding to all of
this?

[00:11:55] Helen Sayers: [00:11:55] Yes. That's a very good question. Well, where I am in
Jersey, we're actually very lucky. There are very few restrictions at the moment you're
advised to wear a mask, if you go into anywhere, public like banks or shops, um, but it's not
legally enforced. The only thing that is legally enforced is this, um, going into quarantine, if
you're coming in from another part of the world that's red or orange, um, in terms of
infection rates, then you come back to Jersey and you take a test and then you're supposed
to keep out of the way of everyone for a certain length of time.

[00:12:30] So where I am at the moment. Um, and you know, I'm very lucky. I'm staying with
my parents. I, you know, I have all my needs catered for, um, but I think it's more the, the
frustration and the hardship for people whose businesses have been affected or who, or
people who can't visit their elderly relatives. And, and I know with my parents, um, the one,
the thing that, that they really

[00:13:00] miss is their grandchildren, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren

who come and visit them. And they haven't seen them now for goodness knows how many
months, but meanwhile, I got mum onto WhatsApp and now she sits there flicking through
videos and all the kids send their latest shots of, and I think she's far more actually in
connection with all her grandchildren and great-grandchildren than she was

[00:13:26] before COVID. So you could almost say there was a silver lining there

[00:13:34] Wesley Pepper: [00:13:34] that's actually quite an interesting point because in
my previous episodes, the podcast. I've definitely noticed that COVID has really bottlenecked
or actually forced everybody into understanding technology and making it work for them. So
it's really, really opening a interesting world. so before we get to that because I want to, I
want to get to that. So explain to us before we spoke about covid about your relationship or
working on the continent in Africa?
[00:14:16] Helen Sayers: [00:14:16] Um, well it started actually when I was, um, well in my
early twenties and, um, as a teacher, a teacher of science and, um, music and sports. But my
main subject was science. Um, I just saw a job advertised in the, the teachers journal, um,
for a job in an international school in Kenya. And I really didn't know much about Kenya.

[00:14:40] It was 1978, by the way, you're going back a long way. And I thought, why not?
And so I was accepted for the job and I got on a plane and, um, and I was three years in, in
Kenya without coming back home. And the first thing that I felt. In fact, it was interesting. It
was even before I landed, I was in the plane feeling, quite excited, looking out at this
incredible landscape unfolding beneath me, as we were coming to land, I was sitting next to
a delightful little old lady and suddenly

[00:15:19] I heard the word I'm you're home or I'm home. And I looked at the little lady and I
said, Oh, what do you mean by that? And she said, I didn't say anything. And I suddenly
realized it was something coming from deep within me. And I just felt I was coming home.
And the moment I walked out onto the airport runway, um, there was this feeling of
warmth.

[00:15:49] There were smiles, there were these colors and just this feeling of welcome the
country was welcoming. The soil was welcoming me. And the people were smiling. And I just
felt that I was in a totally different world that was somehow accepting me with open arms.
And, um, and so that was the beginning of my three years in Kenya, lots of adventures.

[00:16:17] And, and it was a real opening for me because I didn't know anyone there, so I
didn't have parents that I had to be, you know, I had to behave in front of, I didn't have
friends that I had to impress. I didn't have anyone. Um, do, do you understand what I mean?
I could be, I could be me. Um, so it was quite an adventure of self discovery, not having to be
accountable to anyone if you like.

[00:16:47] And I suddenly realized that even my thoughts had been influenced by other
people, I, I, I was sort of almost watching my thoughts and thinking now, why are you
thinking that? Because that's not actually what you think. And then I realized that religious
beliefs, I suddenly came across people and the way they were

[00:17:11] you know, doing their worship or their prayers or something was just so different.
And there were different religions. I'd never looked into different religions before, and there
were all sorts of diff and I suddenly thought, gosh, my upbringing doesn't necessarily have all
the answers and isn't necessarily the whole truth.

[00:17:32] So it made me start to question and deeply explore other ways of doing things,
other ways of life. And so that's just a very quick summary of my experience of Kenya. And
then I left Kenya and I went to Canada for a while, thinking that perhaps I would like to live
there, but there was something deeply, deeply missing.

[00:17:58] And, uh, I went to have a look at a school there that interested me and the
headmaster showed me around and he said, well, we haven't got any jobs here at the
moment that we will have in a year's time. But he said, I think you've left your heart in
Africa.
[00:18:14] I think he picked it up just in our conversations and he said, we've got a sister
school in Swaziland. I wonder if that would interest you now? I had never heard of Eswatini,
but I just, yeah. Nodded my head and said, Oh yes, thank you very much. And he picked up
the phone to the head teacher of Waterford Kamhlaba in Mbabane. And my next job was
arranged in about three minutes in a phone conversation. It was quite strange, but, uh, so
then off I was heading for Swaziland. And that was in the early eighties. And that was a
totally different

[00:18:57] experience to Kenya. It was a totally different experience to anything I'd

experienced before and there. I found myself in this little Island country surrounded by
South Africa with all it's problems then of Aparheid. Nelson Mandela was in jail and
everything was going on, but Swaziland didn't have that problem.

[00:19:23] And I didn't feel even the slightest bit of bad feelings towards me because I was
white. And I said to a friend of mine, a black South African, he was actually from South Africa
who was a refugee in Swazi land. And I said, how come.. Here I am with my white skin. And
no one seems to dislike me. And he says, you know, We've got nothing against white people.

[00:19:52] We don't hate white people. It's just that some of them have got a strange
attitude. And I thought that was so big hearted and I could really feel his sincerity that there
wasn't hatred in his heart. I mean, he had been brutally tortured. This guy, he had his
stories, he was involved in the Soweto uprising and his stories were quite incredible.

[00:20:17] But he became like a brother to me and we had a very deep connection and he
introduced me to some very, very interesting people. And I got to know a lot about the
struggle and what was going on. And so my three years in Swaziland was one year at
Waterford Kamhlaba, a big international school, and then two years at a local school for girls
in Manzini.

[00:20:48] And that's something I had always wanted was to actually be really in the
community to really get to know the culture. That was another real opening for me, I could
say. And that's my three years in. In Swaziland sort of confirms this. I had never heard the
word Ubuntu until I left Africa, but I felt it, I felt it.

[00:21:15] And it was what kept bringing me back to Africa. I traveled to many countries
after I've lived in Swaziland and it was like a magnet. It was something kept pulling me back.
And it was this ubuntu. That, um, I'd never put in, no one had ever put a name to it or maybe
I just hadn't recognized it.

[00:21:37] Wesley Pepper: [00:21:37] Um, ja as you can hear we having a serious downpour
of rain here. It's bucketing down!

[00:21:47] Helen Sayers: [00:21:47] Wow.

[00:21:47] Wesley Pepper: [00:21:47] Yeah, but anyway its actually quite beautiful. Helen,
pretty interesting man. what's your relationship or rather how do you see artists playing a
more active role like now, moving, moving, moving forward?
[00:22:06] Helen Sayers: [00:22:06] Um, and I see art as an expression of the soul. Um,
whether it's music, whether it's painting, whether it's sculpture, um, and my main
connection with artists as such as that, um, uh, I've been, I wouldn't say supporting, but in
partnership with the South West African wood sculptor, you sculpt values, his sculptures are
absolutely beautiful.

[00:22:36] And, and, and, and he, when he sits in front of a piece of wood, I mean, any artist
would, would, would know about this, that, you know, the power of silence you, he sits in
front of this piece of wood. He goes into silence. And he listens. I mean, he says it's as if the
wood starts to speak to him, he starts to feel and see and visualize, and this amazing three
dimensional shape comes out of it.

[00:23:05] And I just think it's fantastic. You know, I, I think artists is just wonderful. How
something profound from the soul is then expressed through whatever medium it is. And,
and I think we are all artists in our different ways. And I think artists like painters and
sculptors bring out the artist in me

[00:23:31] when I see it I start to feel. i start to express myself. It inspires me. And I think
now more than ever, um, perhaps we all need to be thinking, what is my gift? What is my
art? What is my creativity that will nourish me first of all. And that has a message. Um, that
has something that will touch others, uh, or something that will help others to come
together in some way in appreciation.

[00:24:04] And I think we are seeing, you know, choirs coming together, people sitting in
their little rooms, children, adults, and they're creating beautiful music all together, even
though they're all in their separate rooms. And we're seeing these musicians doing this as
well. In fact, even before COVID, um, we've seen this, how different artists as a guitarist
here, a drummer in Senegal and someone somewhere else.

[00:24:31] All coming together to make music because let's face it. We can't all, even before
COVID not, everyone can jump on a plane and go and join someone somewhere else in the
world. But as you said, technology connects us together. And I think now it's a connection of
the soul or connection of the heart that's needed most in this time where we're reading
about and hearing about very serious mental health issues due to this loneliness and feeling
isolated.

[00:25:05] and if. People haven't already started on an inner journey of meditation or self
discovery or whatever it is that enriches the soul. Then it can be a very lonely world at the
moment and a very devastating world. And if you can't cope with some of these feelings,
then, you know, it's easy to go into a very, very bad state of mind.

[00:25:36] And I think art can help very much in, you know, helping people connect with
their source connect with their own peace of mind or connect with their own enthusiasm
connect with whatever it is. So I feel that whatever we can do to encourage artists to
express something of value out there in the world.

[00:26:03] Um, that that is great. But of course, as you also said, artists have to live. And so
this is a big challenge. Um, and with my West African friend, I was, um, joining an exhibitions
and festivals and fairs and taking his sculptures and actually putting them out there for
people to see and of course I can no longer do that.

[00:26:27] He can no longer do that in Senegal, because there are no tourists. And so he's
got to think again. And so what we're doing is we're setting up a very beautiful website up till
now he's just had a little blog, which hasn't really sort of got him out there. And so we're
setting up a lovely website, um, and hopefully that will get his art out there.

[00:26:53] And then who knows, then there's a certain point where one can either be
anxious and worried and concerned about the future. Or we have to develop this very deep.
Trust and courage and confidence that the future might be very different to what I had
thought it was going to be but things will somehow count because things usually do.

[00:27:25] And that has been something that I think has guided me. In my life. Um, for many,
many years, it's just this, because you know, my life is a little bit different to the sort of
standard life that perhaps my parents would have wanted for me, you know, I've traveled
after Swaziland. I went to, um, Well I came back to England for, for some time and my
brother had had a nervous breakdown, and that was a chapter in my life, which had a
tremendous influence on me.

[00:28:00] He was just the most lovely soul you could imagine, but very vulnerable. And then
he went into, uh, well, eventually he was diagnosed as schizophrenic, but he somehow
accessed, um, parts of his mind, parts of his being that were just fascinating for me to
observe and witness and, um, the things that he came out with and just

[00:28:29] him and getting to know him when he was in this state was very eye-opening for
me. And it made me want to understand the mind, more, understand feelings and emotions,
understand where, where does this all come from? What are we all about? And then
ultimately, Who am I? And so I'm so grateful to my little brother who led me to studying and
researching, looking into these very deep questions of existence and purpose and meaning.

[00:29:10] And then eventually to taking up meditation as part of my daily life and really
studying and understanding, you know, what is the soul? What is, what is this being that's
conducting this huge body of matter, and that has thoughts and feelings, and that has a
history and memories galore. And as part of a greater whole, which we can only just start to
understand, but I feel now is a time with everything that's going on. It's actually going on
around you at the moment.

[00:29:53] Wesley Pepper: [00:29:53] Ay man i'm telling you its actually quite freaky, there's
hail falling actually quite . it's really bucketing down. Helen, could we just pause until after
this storm because i just think for quality for sound purposes. so I will just pause and I will
call you on whatsapp..

[00:30:14] Helen Sayers: [00:30:14] sounds better! What did you do?

[00:30:18] Wesley Pepper: [00:30:18] it's these summer thunderstorms

[00:30:24] Helen Sayers: [00:30:24] Well, it added a bit of atmosphere, didn't it?
[00:30:34] Oh my goodness. Wesley, remind me, where do you actually live?

[00:30:38] Wesley Pepper: [00:30:38] well I'm still based in Johannesburg right. seven/ eight
months into it my landlord is being a real asshole so they cut off our electricity. So we busy
fighting that as a moment, so I moved out, I moved back home to Kimberley in the Northern
Cape, so it's like 500 kilometres outside Johannesburg. So it's in the Karoo.

[00:31:08] So it's flat, here so yeah. Which is also part the reason why I thought just to give
my listeners a little bit of a break, and say a different perspective on what's happening in
these covid times an then your name popped up. I actually wanted to follow up with what
you were saying. I wanted to make a follow up question, your understanding. I understand
how you see the arts and in your explanation before the huge thunder storm. You didn't
make mention once of it's commercial value. and unfortunately that narrative drives our
industry. so I think that's a very interesting point to come in.

[00:32:08] Helen Sayers: [00:32:08] I agree entirely that, you know, the spirit of ubuntu now
has to help everyone to, to just work together and make things work. When I went to
France, I believe very much, by the way, this is slightly aside, but it is connected. I believe
very much. Um, in things like synchronicity and, you know, coincidences and signals.

[00:32:35] And I don't say that in a sort of pie in the sky way, because it's something that has
been very real for me. Um, I could be trying to do something and trying and trying, and then
suddenly. Something else happens right out of the blue. And that's actually the way that I've
got to do. And I had never thought about it or planned it, but ping, there it comes.

[00:32:57] And this has been, I mean, I just told you the story of me getting my job in
Swaziland. It was just, you know, absolute chance. And yet it all seemed to be part of the
bigger plan of my life that I could never have planned that. And I somehow think we need to
trust in this, that, I mean, there's an expression.

[00:33:18] Isn't there. That, what is it, man, proposes and God disposes or something like
that. You know, we can plan and plan and plan, but actually something else is going to
happen. And, um, so this has been very much part of, of my life and just observing how
things happen and trusting in the way things happen. I don't know if

[00:33:44] if that sounds very, you know, a little bit pie in the sky, but it just does seem to
work for me. And I'm sure if, I mean, for example, let me give you another example of how I
connected with a little bit of the art world in France. Um, when I, I first started, uh, I'd spent,
let me, let me go back a little bit. After Swaziland.

[00:34:07] I came back to England and Jersey where I stayed for about 10 years altogether.
And that was another time I told you a little bit about my brother that very much influenced
my life. And for me, it was a time of great soul searching, exploring all sorts of cultures
religions, ways of life and brought me into studying and practicing meditation.

[00:34:30] And then I went to Geneva for eight years and became involved with different,
um, non-governmental organizations at the United nations. And I was part of a spiritual
group called the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, um, that had, um, consultative
status with UNESCO. At the United nations. And so I represented that group at the United
nations and the aim was to just highlight the importance of values in all of these big global
issues.

[00:35:06] And it was a fascinating time for me because I.. It connected me with the whole
world and you could very easily brush shoulders with ambassadors. And I even saw Thabo
Mbeki, he smiled at me and waved at me. And I had a chat with Archbishop Desmond Tutu
and, you know, it was quite an empowering and intoxicating time being there.

[00:35:32] And then after that, I went to Oman in the middle East. And again, that was just
a.. Each time it's been just a sheer coincidence that has taken me there. And then I spent
nine years in Oman, which really opened me to yet another culture yet another religion yet
another whole world view, if you like. Um, and so each of these chapters have shaped my
life.

[00:35:59] And then after nine years in Oman for various various reasons, it was like, as if
that chapter was closing, I could feel it. I could feel it in my blood. There was a certain period
of only just a few months when I could feel that things were tying up in Oman. I loved it very
deeply and everything was going well, but that was a chapter closing.

[00:36:20] Which I accepted and I felt that I needed to go back and be closer to my parents
anyway, and sort of, I needed a spell back in Europe for some reason. And I found myself
looking into France, Brittany, which is quite close to, to Jersey. And during the first few
months of being there. I went to this big, beautiful open air market.

[00:36:44] And I was having a look at all these organic, um, tomatoes and apples. And I just
started chatting to, um, the people who were running these stands. And one guy, we were
having a really good conversation and he comes from the Isle of Reunion, which is of course
in the Indian ocean, which is a great melting point of different cultures.

[00:37:06] And so we connected and then as a result of our conversation, he said, I wonder if
you'd be interested in what I'm doing here. And he handed me a little leaflet and it said
Ubuntu Cafe of Rennes. So this is the name of the town. I said, Whoa, Oh, ubuntu cafe. Well,
I don't believe it. And he said, Oh yes, ubuntu, I can explain what that means to you, if you
like.

[00:37:30] And I said, no, you don't have to explain it to me. I just, it's something that I'm
passionate about. And here it is in Rennes. And so he said, yes, he said, it's a concept that I
came across and that I feel is needed in France because the French culture tends to be very
individualist, you know, so, um, and he said, I feel we need ubuntu here to get people
together and get people sharing.

[00:38:03] And so he'd set up the Ubuntu cafe of Rennes and it was the little cafe on a
corner, just on the outskirts of the city where he'd set it up. He had a little bar where, you
know, it was a cafes so you could have a cup of tea or you could have something alcoholic,
whatever you like. And that was the source of income.
[00:38:25] But the aim was to provide a space where young students could come and put on
a little show, a little bit of theater or other people could come and talk about their charity or
some musicians could come. And it was a place where people could come and show what
they did. And someone came from, Oh yeah.

[00:38:47] And a lot of Africans, somehow it supported a lot of African people. And that's
where I started to meet my network of friends in France. I joined this little association. I
would go along to some of the events that were put on at the Ubuntu cafe. And when I look
back, I think, well, look at that. What an amazing coincidence, how come I just

[00:39:08] happened to be at that, um, fruit vegetable stand that I happened to talk to that
person that he happened to think I might be interested in ubuntu. That he happened to give
me that piece of paper and that we then connected. And I just think that, um, if we keep our
antenna open, if we, uh, Open to these sorts of things that happen in life.

[00:39:31] I could never have engineered that to happen, but it changed my sort of destiny
in France. And I think that possibly this is sort of the new way that we perhaps need to be
heading towards is, is being more intuitive. Being more centered using meditation, the
power of silence, the power of intuition. Um, I think this is going to somehow help us.

[00:40:00] It's, it's, it's a very different way of operating for many people. I do realize that if it
can even be integrated slightly, and I think artists are very open. I mean, artists of course are
very intuitive and very creative and free thinking. And so. I think this is another reason why,
as you said earlier on, Wesley, that artists have a great role to play because they can unleash
that creativity in other people's minds, they can help people see out of the box to, to feel it,
to get in touch with themselves, I think is the first thing and to unite.

[00:40:38] And as you said, you know, you're seeing that people are coming together more
in the art world. Uh, and, uh, so I think this could be the beginning of a very positive chapter
for humanity in many ways. Yeah,

[00:40:53] Wesley Pepper: [00:40:53] yeah, yeah. that's a very interesting point, and that's
sort of where I wanted to close off. moving forward, I know that France is now dealing with
this.Nobody can really predict for how long its going to be going on, moving forward in this
reality. Where do you see us and I mean in 2021? And I'm talking creatives, where do you
think we should be focusing on?

[00:41:21] Helen Sayers: [00:41:21] Well, I mean, I don't know what to say to that really, but
I think just continuing to, to focus on, on values on, on ones, in a truths on one's creativity.
Now I'll just give you one little example of what else this COVID situation has done for me.

[00:41:42] It's got me out into the garden. It's got me growing a vegetable patch. Now I
haven't done that since I was a little kid. I, the absolute magic of seeing six little runner bean
seeds growing and developing into this huge Bush, which just produced a meal a day for
months and months and the beautiful flowers and watching the insects and the colors and
growing tomatoes.
[00:42:10] Now, this is something that children are doing here as well. And it's something
gave me so much satisfaction and excitement of just going out and looking at these plants
every morning. And I even felt my connection with nature changing. I feel a much deeper
connection with watching the seasons with observing the beauty of plants, the beauty of
flowers, and letting that touch the soul again, it's going back to the soul.

[00:42:40] So I became an artist of this little vegetable patch and it gave me such pleasure.
And of course, then I could share the fruits and actually the fruits of what I done with others
and inspire a few others to do the same. And now I've got the seeds that I can give to others
as gifts to start their own little garden.

[00:43:02] Now that's just a small example of creativity. Um, connecting with beauty.
Through gardening, which you don't have to be a so-called artists to do. But in fact, you find
that you are an artist you're working with nature to create something of beauty and
something that is also has a commercial value, if you like, and is of use and can be shared.

[00:43:27] So I think we have to look at the word artist in a very broad sense that, and I think
artists can, can convince other people that we are all artists and can perhaps inspire children
in particular to use these incredible, incredible creative talents and perhaps get them off
their phones and, uh, you know, all these things, which are perhaps less creative, although
they can be creative, you know help children to be creative with their

[00:43:59] social media and, and whatever they do online, if that's their interest, we can't
force it away from them, but how can they use it in a worthwhile way? I believe that we all
have the most incredible talents. And one of the greatest gifts that was given to me was
when I.. The day I left Swaz land little children that I used to say hello to on the road side,
they gave me an Audi car.

[00:44:24] As my leaving present, and this Audi car was made out of every scrap of metal
and Coca-Cola tins that they had found along the wayside. And they had constructed this
into a little framework of a car. When I say a little, it was quite big, but I could see it has an
extensible steering wheel.

[00:44:45] And they showed me how I could drive my car along the road. This touched my
heart. This was the creativity of these little children. And I somehow managed to pack that
thing away into a packing box and it brought it all the way back home because it touched my
heart so much. So I think as artists, we also have a responsibility to share what we have and
inspire others and particularly children and help them get in touch with themselves.

[00:45:16] Otherwise they're going to get lost. In what can be a crazy world out there and
where values are at great risk of being lost. I mean, you'd never lose values because they are
part of every single human being but they can get easily covered up. It's like a beautiful
diamond, you get dust on the diamond it doesn't even look like a diamond anymore, but just
blow that dust away and let that diamond shine.

[00:45:44] And that's what's in every single child. And of course every single adult. And I
think as you say, you know, artists have this incredible role and responsibility perhaps to
share their creativity and their talents and their know-how with particularly the younger
generation

[00:46:05] Wesley Pepper: [00:46:05] very well said. It was very insightful. Um, yeah. Thank
you so much. Like I hope you guys get through the lockdown

[00:46:25] Helen Sayers: [00:46:25] I hope so. My heart goes out to the communities in
South Africa and of course all over the continent where you know, challenges can be even
greater. Yeah.

[00:46:37] Wesley Pepper: [00:46:37] Um, just in closing here i actually know of three
people who died of covid it and i know of countless others who've been infected. but
anyway, Helen,, thank you so much, I really appreciate this

[00:46:46] Helen Sayers: [00:46:46] And thank you, Wesley! this is a great job what you're
doing. This is very inspiring what you're doing.

[00:47:00] Wesley Pepper: [00:47:00] Thank you. Let's close on that note. Helen, have a
fantastic day! Happy Thursday and we'll chat soon!

[00:47:23] Same with you.

[00:47:24] Hey world. Um, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode with Helen, um, really
insightful and really interesting points of view and perspectives on life and how artists
should see themselves. Um, a very beautiful soul, also very creative. Um, um, and she does,
you know, you know, she has this really exciting aura about her that, uh, that I've, I guess
I've just always enjoyed.

[00:47:47] Um, so yeah, man, I hope you guys enjoy that a lot. Um, we'll definitely see if we
can get her on in 2021 and sort of talk about the aftermath of, um, of, of, of 2020. So yeah,
man, guys, look out, I've got a, um, the next episode is going to be really cool. Um, I'm
talking to Dikwele Paul Moletethe which is, uh, which is actually quite an interesting
character because, um, I know him from my early days at Artist Proof and he was one of my
teachers.

[00:48:15] Um, I mean like this guy was technically just, I would, I don't use this word often,
but. Um, but he was very good. I won't say genius, but he was really, really good. And, and
he sort of like, you know, fell off or just disappeared out of the industry for quite a few
years. So we're going to catch up on and tell his story.

[00:48:33] I'm definitely looking forward to that. So please stay tuned for that, um, to give us
a shot, um, um, feedback, um, on all the socials, you know, you'll find me @WesleyPepper
on all my social handles Instagram, Facebook, um, um, uh, yeah, so you just search for
Wesley Pepper. You'll see me there, um, yeah, man takes a lot, man, for, for, for, for, for
tuning in, and don't forget to catch us next week.

[00:48:59] And, um, um, just the last closing point. Um, so the format I'm going to. I think I
mentioned last week, I'm going to change the format somewhat towards the end of, or
rather in December. So we're going to keep it very, um, um, we have a very light still arts-
based and arts-related but very light and more family holiday orientated.

[00:49:19] Because this year has been just too heavy, man. And, um, So look out for some
more heavy stuff this month and for some light stuff coming towards, um, January, agh I
mean December. So people thanks a lot, man. Thanks for staying tuned. And, um, see you
next week. .