Automating Your Email

Marketing to Avoid the

Spam Folder and Engage
Your Customers
Transcript and 10 Point
Checklist
Andre Chaperon
Want to gain as much knowledge as possible out of Marketing Speak? Read on
below for a full transcript of this episode, as well as a 10 point checklist that gives
the next, real steps you can take to take your marketing to the next level.

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

 10 STEPS YOU CAN TAKE TODAY
Want to step up your marketing game? Here are 10 steps that can move you
closer to your goals – today.

Create a list of tasks that you have either been putting off, or that you haven't had time for.

The things that are the least important, toss.

Start delegating! Find websites where you can post job ads for assistants in the Philippines.

Create an ad that is engaging, but tells your potential new employees what you need

upfront.

Get organized. Set up a project management system like Trello or Basecamp to keep track of

your tasks, notes, and statuses-you'll never wonder what is going on with a task again.

What makes your favorite movie great? You can give that kind of engagement to your

newsletter emails, but you need to look at the long-term story arc.

Although the system is automated, the selection to start with broadcast emails should be a

choice made by you according to the amount of engagement and education a certain

prospect has had about you as a thought leader.

Nine-word emails are an awesome way to make email list members feel like a close friend.

However, they are best utilized when they've been in that email list for a good amount of

time so they understand the context of who you are.

Less is more: read Kevin Kelly’s “1000 True Fans” to learn how establishing a core, loyal base

of customers can do more for your business than intermittent customers

If you deal with a lot of international orders, you may want to consider Click Bank as your

payment processors as they handle all the tax levies no matter where in the world

Want to avoid ending up in the spam folder? Focus on high quality, and keyword here,

relevant content. Stuff your customers don’t want in spam, but in their inbox

Try numbering your emails, for example “1 out of 5 emails” so the customer is on the lookout

for rest and stays engaged with high quality content.

Transcript
S: Hello and welcome to Marketing Speak. I'm your host, Stephan Spencer, and today I have
with us Andre Chaperon. He is a wizard at email marketing, and story-based marketing for
that matter. It's a distinct pleasure to have you on today, Andre. We met through a purely
online mastermind called Tuesday Billionaires, through a mutual friend who is also on the
mastermind, Susan Lassiter-Lyons. It was just an incredible experience to be part of this
mastermind where I first came in as a guest
speaker, and then I got to meet the group and you
were a part of it, and I was just floored with your
“He is a wizard at email
depth of knowledge and willingness to share
marketing, and story-based
everything, and it was a great experience.
marketing for that matter.”
Unfortunately that mastermind ended up closing
down after a while but you guys kept it going for
several years. But yeah, you are an expert at email
marketing having done it for over ten years, got a product called Autoresponder Madness
that you are quite famous for, it's all about developing highly relevant emails to every

person so that you persuade them, you get them through the funnels buying your stuff,
serving them with great content and great results. You've got another product that you are
known for called Tiny Little Businesses. that was done in partnership with Steve Gray-all
about testing very quickly before you create the products to validate your marketing
messages and what the big problem is, and then using story to connect and persuade. And
then your newest brand is called Storyfluence, it's really the center-point for all of your
marketing now. It's story-based marketing, about email marketing and online marketing in a
more effective manner. You are based currently in Gibraltar, a peninsula that juts off Spain
with a population of only 30,000 people, and I am going to have to have you on my other
show, The Optimized Geek, to talk about your lifestyle design and all that, because that's
amazing. You were based in Marbella, Spain before that, which is also an amazing

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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destination-a lot of people would just dream of, oh I wish I could live there, but really when you
design your business and your life to meet your own needs, you can live anywhere, so we'll
definitely have to have you back on that show to talk about that. You've also got a book in the
works, and you may even get into fiction at some point and do some fiction writing. It's a
pleasure to have you on Andre.

A: Thanks for inviting me man, I'm excited,

“but I believe for the most part-
let's see what we can do. I bet I am your first
guest from the country of Gibraltar.
I mean, people receive emails
all the time so they can be the
S: Let's line up a handful, though. Let's start judge themselves, but most
with the email marketing, because a lot of marketers rig their system and
people don't really understand that very their email systems and they
well, they are getting their hands dirty with do certain things and tactics
Facebook marketing and really email
with their own best interest
marking is a staple that you need to have a
first and foremost. The
finely tuned machine for that, otherwise it is
going to be hard to maintain rapport and
customer is an afterthought…
relationships with your prospects. What is it
the way that I approach it is
exactly that makes your process different that everything is rigged with
than traditional email marketing, because the customer as the most
we get a lot of noisy emails, newsletters, important thing.”
and spammy things that aren't tailored to
my particular needs as the recipient-what
makes your process different?

A: I think the biggest thing, and I've got to be careful because I don't want this to come out or
be perceived incorrectly, and I am going to generalize somewhat, but I believe for the most part-
I mean, people receive emails all the time so they can be the judge themselves, but most
marketers rig their system and their email systems and they do certain things and tactics with
their own best interest first and foremost. The customer is an afterthought. It's about them
sucking as much money as they can out of a new subscriber, but I guess at the end of the day,
that's what it's about. The way that I approach it is that everything is rigged with the customer
as the most important thing. How do you create an environment that every single email that
goes out is made so it has their best interest at heart? It's very relevant, I tell stories so I think
that is what differentiates what I do from other people. The most important thing is that those
emails are relevant, using the framework and system that I have developed from when I started
doing this stuff. And then just using technology to send the right message to the right person at
the right time.

S: You serve the customer, and really put them front and center. A great analogy of this, I learned
this many years ago from a past VP of marketing from my previous agency that I had founded

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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he told me that when you put your face to the customer, you put your butt to the company.
Most people do the opposite, they put their butt to the customer and face to the company,
because they don't want to lose their jobs. The problem is, you are just doing self-serving,
kind of marketing speak-ironic that we are using that word, the name of the show here-but
it's just a paradigm shift that we need to turn around and face the customer. You might end
up losing your job, and I apologize in advance if that ends up happening, but you are going
to serve the customer so much better. Relevance is a great pathway to that, there are other
ways that we can do that, but let's talk about relevance. What is an example of highly
relevant and highly irrelevant in email marketing?

A: One of the most popular ways of delivering emails to a list of subscribers is basically
broadcast. No matter what email system you use, every single one of them has the
functionality to write an email, stick it in the system, select a group of people, which is
typically everyone-either all customers, all prospects, or everyone, and send email. Now, the
problem is that email is not going to 100% relevant to every single person. I'm very careful
with how I do broadcast emails, I never do broadcasting emails-well, very rarely. When I do,

it's framed differently, it's part of an approach. For the most part, broadcast emails go to
only special segments of people, what are the groups of people in my email list that I have
identified that they are good match for whatever email I am about to send out. But that is
the opposite of my email system, the emails that get sent out, 95% of the emails that get
sent out are using the autoresponder emails, where somebody subscribes and they start
getting the sequence of emails at the time. That is where I spend the most of my time,
because now I can rig the system and make it behavior based. Based on the behavior of the
subscriber, it can trigger other email sequences, so if someone wants to go deeper into a
certain topic or they are interested in a certain thing, when they click a link that tells me that
they have raised their hand about a certain thing. I can then deliver them more relevant
emails based on that. I can tag them for later on, if I am doing a broadcast email,

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

 I can identify those groups of people
very easily. I don't know if people
remember, back in the day there used to
“I guess that is another thing
be these series of books, these choose
that is different with the way
your own adventure books, so that's
that I do things opposed to the
basically how I rig my email systems. It's
way other people to things is
essentially a choose your own
that everyone just wants to get
adventure. Everyone starts off in the
a damn click, right? The most same adventure, in the same story, if
important thing in the world is they have come via a certain squeeze
just to get the damn clicks, page, and then I will quickly try to figure
which is kind of stupid really out what they are about and I will create
because that person doesn't different pathways. I will allow people to
know what is behind the self-select what interests them. If I start
clicks.” talking about traffic for example, not
everyone is going to be into paid traffic
and not everyone is going to be into SEO or free traffic, organic traffic, so typically
marketers are either one or the other, just using that as an example. Sure, some people
want to do both, but typically there is a choice that is made at that point, and at every

single point or part of marketing. That's what I'll do, I'll just rig it like this, so I will tell
stories, create context for the link, because having a two line email and a link, there is no
context there so obviously you are not going to get a deep sense of understanding or
intent behind that. I guess that is another thing that is different with the way that I do
things opposed to the way other people to things is that everyone just wants to get a
damn click, right? The most important thing in the world is just to get the damn clicks,
which is kind of stupid really because that person doesn't know what is behind the clicks.
Reading a blind email with a link inside it doesn't really tell you anything other than

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

you've tricked somebody, or you created enough curiosity for them to click the link. It
doesn't mean they are interested in that stuff, because when they get to the destination
page they may think this is shit, or this isn't for me, but now they have already clicked
the link. I am very careful about how I position and create context for links, I know that
everything is super relevant. I guess that's the high level version of what I do-choose
your own adventure.

S: That's a great way to explain it. It's like you are conveying intent in your emails, well
actually, the recipient is conveying intent depending on how they are interacting with
your emails, it's not just getting the click but getting them to convey that intent so that
you can put that into your CRM or your database and then launch different emails to
them based on the tailored interest that they have expressed.

A: The great thing is that I then get to promote more things, because now people have
self-selected. Not everybody gets the same offers, people have chosen what they are
interested in, so at some point I can put a certain solution in front of them if it's not my
own thing, if it's somebody else's stuff, and then I know that it's very relevant and that's
why I get very high conversion rates. I do very well on launching the boards even
though I have the smallest list, and that's a factor.

S: When a lot of people are taking about is the power of trigger-based emails versus
broadcast emails, they are talking about a different thing. They are talking about if
someone abandons the cart after a certain period, you send them an email to remind
them that they have a cart just sitting there waiting for checkout. But this is different,
this choose your own adventure approach is really about getting inside the head of the
recipient and understanding what drives them, servicing their needs, and solving their
problems versus just finding an opportunity where they lost track of something such as
their checkout process or something. I think this is a really powerful way to do email
marketing. Now, moving from relevance, let's talk about what technology you are using
to do these autoresponder based emails that are behavior based and capturing these
rules, storing all this by using like InfusionSoft or Ontraport, are you using an email only
solution like Aweber or Constant Contact, or a combination of different platforms?
What is the technology look like?

A: At the end of the day, you can pretty much use anything. Certain technologies are
going to be a lot easier to use because they have been built with this in mind, where as
when Aweber was designed and built, and even now, it's one of the oldest standing
things but they have the most basic system in the world. Anyway, I’m not knocking
them too much, but even with Aweber you can do this, it's just a bit more challenging
to create-to code links that trigger other things and move people around. I use
ActiveCampaign, it does everything and more that you could ever want with a pure
email system. Yes, there are people who use InfusionSoft and Ontraport,

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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there's a whole list of these things, and if you use it already you can stick with it, but if you
don't use one of these yet then ActiveCampaign would be my suggestion. I think
subscriptions start at $9 per month and you get all the functionality for $9 per month, then
it just depends on your list size. They've got full automation built into everything and you
can do some really nice advanced stuff like lead scoring, then based on those lead scores
you can then trigger other automations-you can have VIP lists if people purchase certain
products or certain combinations, or visit certain pages, it scores that and then when there
is a certain score you can trigger the autoresponder sequence, then it delivers different
types of emails for a type of person that's
“So you can make people feel like-some superfan would probably buy all
very special and you can do this your products, right? So now using that
whole thing using automation technology, you can identify that and
which is the most amazing thing reward them for that, and give them things
in the world.” that you wouldn't give anybody else. For
example, you can create some special
bonus that the bonus was only ever created to give to your best customers. You can
automate that entire process and when they get this thing they think oh my god this guy is
amazing he’s just given me this cool thing and no one else has got it. So you can make
people feel very special and you can do this whole thing using automation which is the most
amazing thing in the world.

S: That reminds me, when you’re talking about super fans, of Kevin Kelly’s “1000 True Fans”.
I love that concept that the describes in that article or small ebook of this rabid fan base of
true fans. Let’s say with a podcast show you create that fan base which I’m trying to do here
with two shows, this one and also with the Optimized Geek. In fact, with the Optimized
Geek, I’m looking to build my fan base up so when I have my book ready to launch,
publishers, when I shop this around, this self help book that I’m working on, they’re going to
chomp at the bit because they are going to say wow you’ve got 1000 true fans or whatever
that number is who just really love you on your podcast show. They are going to be hitting
the streets just really excited, telling other people, asking
the bookstores “hey when is Stephan’s book coming
out?” and so forth. 1000 True Fans, I love that concept.
So Active Campaign, I’m familiar only just kind of “I love that concept
tangentially with that software. I’ve heard good things that the describes in
about it. I like the idea, like in InfusionSoft you can tag that article or small
customer records and say ok this person wen through ebook of this rabid
this particular hoop, they jumped through this hoop or fan base of true
whatever, and thus you can build a campaign or an email
fans.”
that goes out just to them, I’m assuming there is a similar
sort of tagging feature in Active Campaign?

A: Yeah tagging is baked into the core

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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of how the system operates. Everything is tagged based so yeah that’s awesome. They’ve
actually been around since 13 or 14 years, the company, but there is less marketers that have
heard of them because they don’t target, their ideal customer base isn’t the internet
marketing crowd. So if you’re just a pure affiliate marketer then its probably not a good
option for you because they aren’t going to want you. They’re not going to be welcoming
you with open arms. If you’re in the supplement business they’re also weary about that so
there’s certain spaces whereas Infusionsoft is happy to take anything and everything. If
you’re in most markets, then Active Campaign should be fine.

S: Ok, and so then whether you’re

“I have a very simple system,
really, cause we use Click
Bank to process all orders,
just because we’ll be based,
we don’t have access to types
of carts that other people do.
Lots of the US based guys, its
very easy to get a Stripe or
using Infusionsoft or Active
Campaing or Ontraport, or some
other software, I know like with
Infusionsoft there are certain tools
that you can add to your core
Infusionsoft installation. So you
could buy third party extensions to
infusionsoft, for let’s say,
intergration with GoToMeeting or
GoToWebinar. You could also buy,

merchant account where its kind of recipes of pre-built

campaigns with all the triggers
more challenging when you’re
and email sequences built out like,
living in a different place. digitalmarketer.com offers a
There’s no Stripe here in product they call ‘The Machine”
Gibraltar” which has a whole bunch of these
sequences. Do you recommend
any particular recipe sets like that or do you offer one, what do you suggest there?

A: I have a very simple system, really, cause we use Click Bank to process all orders, just
because we’ll be based, we don’t have access to types of carts that other people do. Lots of
the US based guys, its very easy to get a Stripe or merchant account where its more
challenging when you’re living in a different place. There’s no Stripe here in Gibraltar. We
can get one in the UK but then its you know, its not US based. But anyway, theres ways
around stuff but for us it’s a very simple set up so we use Click Bank to process all our
orders, and we use a dedicated system, Active Campaign, just for pure email. Active
Campaign can integrate with most everything anyways, but it doesn’t have its own built in
shopping cart. If you wanted that sort of tied integration, then InfusionSoft that’s what they
do. If you want to have your affiliate stuff, and your shopping cart and everything inside the
InfusionSoft then that’s probably the better way to go. For me, we use Click Bank and then
we use Active Campaign for our email. But they do support a whole bunch of integrations,
I’ve just never looked at them because it doesn’t interest me. They do integrate with
GoToWebinar, GoToTraining, GoToMeeting

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

, and a million other things. Go to activecampaign.com/apps, they got a million apps on
there you can do integrations with, including Zapier. Then you can obviously integrate
with all sorts of things with that. But I’ve never really invested in that.

S: So just for our listener’s benefit, Zapier is a connector that allows you to connect
different softwares and service tools with other software and service, or SAAS systems.
That’s if you’re trying to do complex integrations then there isn’t an easy way
apparently to integrate the two. Zapier probably has a connector for whatever you’re
trying to connect up. You also mentioned Stripe, for those listeners who don’t know
what Stripe is, its for taking credit cards, and payment gateways and all that. There’s
also Square, which is that little device that you plug into your iPhone and then you
swipe credit cards. Let’s say you’re, you got a business on the side of the road or
whatever and you want to take credit cards and be able to swipe their cards, Square is
an option there. Stripe is, maybe you can describe the benefits of Stripe for those who
aren’t familiar with it?

A: Yeah you can just, my understanding is you can just take, you can pretty much stick a
credit card box on any device easily and directly take credit card information.

S: Yeah so it’s a pretty simple way to start taking credit cards versus going through and
selecting a payment gateway. Selecting a merchant payment processor, all the details
that might be foreign to you, having never taken credit cards before. Stripe is a really
simple option to get up and going. And then you mentioned Click Bank, for those
listeners who aren’t that familiar with Click Bank that’s kind of a marketplace for
information products, and what else about Click Bank do you think listeners should
know?

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

A: Yeah I think they try and frame themselves as the world’s largest digital marketplace of
digital information products. They don’t frame themselves as a payment processor,
although that’s what they do. So they take credit card payments, they handle, the piece
that I love about them which is I use them, I mean they’re slightly more expensive than
using something like Stripe. Stripe would be two and a half percent, plus a certain dollar,
twenty cents per transaction. Whereas Click Bank is more expensive, seven and a half
percent plus one dollar per transaction. But then, they handle all affiliate stuff, they pay off
affiliates, they take and manage VAT or sales tax on everything. Depending on where the
customer is in the world, what country, wherever, they will then determine where the
person is, they will then levy the sales tax or the VAT. They will then take that and they will
declare that and they’ll do whatever they need to do with that. And the vendor doesn’t
have to worry about any of that. So there’s a lot of stuff that they do for that seven and half
percent which is why we’re just happy to pay that. Once a week they just wire us out our
money, we have a corporate account in Singapore so it literally doesn’t matter where you
have your bank account, they’ll just wire you the money and you have your money once a
week into your corporate bank account. For us, with the way that we live, that’s the best
setup for us. So we don’t have the pain of trying to figure out all the different tax things in
the US. You know each state has a different tax, there’s some law where you’ve got to add
sales tax depending on where you are. The same thing is now, as of January 1st, of this
year, there is some law in Europe, that no matter where you are in the EU, you need to
charge sales tax. So that’s twenty percent, twenty one percent depending on where you
are. And that’s like, Jesus, I don’t want to think about that. For us, that’s why we use Click
Bank.

S: Let’s talk about trying to get your emails delivered, its getting harder and harder. Where
spam filters and junk folders are really the bane of the email marketers existence. How do
you get around this, how do you, what are your best practices and recommendations?

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A: Well the number one thing, the first fundamental thing that I do which is the relevance,
because all my emails are so highly relevant, I’ve never really had a major problem with
the whole spam wall, going to the promotions tab. I also do certain things that are, I’ll rig
my system so say there are, if somebody purchases a certain product of mine. Lets say a
customer comes around and purchases orders, that first email that goes out is going to
say something to the thing that you know “add us to your watch list” if you’re using
Google Apps or gmail you can create a tag or an actual filter and as part of that filter you
can check the box that says “never send to spam”. So theres a box inside of gmail and
google apps that allows you to do that. So now you know that every single time you email
that person, 100% of the time its going to go to their priority inbox, its never going to go
to the spam, even if its been triggered to go to the spam. Cause sometimes, I actually
create tags with all my most important emails and these filters. Sometimes I’ll receive and
email from somebody that I obviously want to receive the email from which is why I’ll
have taken the time to set up the filter. What google does is right at the very top of the
email, they’ll say “this email was sent to spam but its in your inbox because of your filter”.
So that’s why I try and condition my customers to do early on. Because I want them to
want the email that Im sending them, and for the most part they do because the emails
are so relevant and the emails are also part of the training. So they get the training which
we deliver through one of our portals, one of our academies, but then component, theres
actually part of the training. So we deliver, we give a different perspective, and we drip
that out through email, it also creates better engagement and better consumption. I’m not
big into the whole idea of somebody buying one of my products and then never going
through it. I want to have customers that turn into fans, and the only way for them to do
that is for the content to be impactful for them or for them to get a certain result from it.
Therefore, they have to consume it. And ideally also take action and implement it. So
email is a great way for me to do that, so I try my best to get customers to create filters
and do things on their end that then facilitates them receiving all these emails. I know that
all my best customers are going to get my emails.

S: Wow that’s great. Its also a powerful approach to do this “choose your own adventure”
sort of approach instead of a big email blast. Because when gmail or yahoo get this
massive set of emails coming in, that seem to be very similar to each other, that pretty
much flags you for junk, for the junk folder. Whereas you’re sending out highly relevant
emails, and its based on a timeline dependent on the recipient. And you’re also getting
them to go through this process of essentially whitelisting your emails with the gmail
filters. It’s a brilliant approach. Do you have any recommendations around spam scoring or
checking to see if you’re using maybe kind of the wrong words or formulating the email in
a way that looks kind of spammy but you just didn’t know any better?

A: I don’t necessarily pay too much attention to that to be honest. Active Campaign that I
use and also I’ve still got a few Aweber accounts, they’re system tells you, if you use the
word ‘guarantee’ and ‘money’ in the same sentence or whatever, it will just warn you that

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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could trigger a spam thing. So I see those sort of things but for the most part, I don’t
really keep that much attention to it because I know that the fundamental system that I
have is rigged in a way that’s almost always going to deliver those emails to those people.
And I also do other little things, where I’ll put up for example a certain batch of emails will
say part one of five, part two of five, for example, and I get emails, our support desk gets
emails all the time saying “hey, I’ve missed email three” or “I’ve missed email 27” no one
gets that, but we get that. So they’ve now told us that they’re waiting and anticipating
these emails, and they’ve missed one. So now they’ll shoot an email to our support, and
we’ll just either manually resend that or send them and archived version of where they can
read that email. So that’s another one of the things we do. Which is why I don’t pay too
much attention to that little bits and pieces.

S: Right because it’s no longer about playing tricks, like oh lets try and quote an email in
the email blast we’re sending out to fool the spam filters. You don’t have to fool the spam
filters when you create highly relevant content rich emails. Its essentially content
marketing, delivered via email.

A: Yeah, and then we also use a lot of engagements, so, I’ll get people to hit reply and
respond to the emails. So that’s another algorithm thing, when google or gmail see that
that person is hitting reply to your email and there’s this conversation that’s happening.
When they hit reply and they send a certain response, that goes to our support desk
automatically. I get the ability to get our support lady to forward those emails to me and I
get to respond to them. Not all of them all of the time, because I do say when I know
there is going to be some volume, I do say "I read all my emails, but I may not be able to
respond to all of them". I do kind of put that out there so I don't create these expectations
that I can't meet. But when I do respond to them, now there's dialogue going between my
email reply and the customer who is the recipient. A lot of the emails that I'm sending,
there is this human interaction happening. You always end up in the inbox.

S: You mentioned you have a framework. Do you want to walk us through a bit more of the
framework, or did you kind of already do that?

A: I've spoken about it already, but I'll restate it again. When somebody subscribes
through one of the funnels, there are on a page - I'll rewind slightly. Someone is on a page
for a certain reason and there is a context, right? There is a certain expectation when they
subscribe to get whatever, whether they are making a purchase or they are just going to
pay for a site with some information. That story continues via email. I know that the first
few emails of the adventure story or the secrets of emails is going to be further with what
they really consumed. Maybe at some point, five or six or whatever, there will start to be
these forks in the road. I'll write out maybe two weeks worth of emails and I'll add it to the
system, and I'll have a little system where I just keep adding emails to that sequence over
time. So that sequence gets longer and longer over time. And people who are already in
the sequence who have kind of gotten to the end of the sequence, for example, whenever

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I add new things, they continue to get those emails, obviously. And the person that is new
will get the longer sequence. That's great because now emails are never just in isolation.
There's never just one email with a sense of "Why is he saying that?" for example. It's -
there's a story happening. They know that I'll create anticipation in the emails using open
leafs, whatever. So they are expecting a certain email from me. When that email arrives, it
also sets up future emails, so there is this narrative that is happening across that
sequence. That sequence could be, if it is a prospect sequence, it could be 30 days long, it
could be 60 days long. Whatever. And within that framework you can slice and dice, do
the choose-your-own-adventure thing, and then tag people according to their interests.
And that's how the whole thing starts. And I'll set up a little marker that says - people are
only open up to broadcast emails after they've reached a certain point in the system,
because I want to create this bond between myself and them, and you can do that really
nicely through these sequences. You can take them down this journey and help them and
try to figure out what their problem is and then how you can help them solve it in a way
that matters to them. At a certain point, when I know that the person probably has a
pretty good sense of who I am, there is a bond that has happened, then I'll stick a little tag
on it that they will say that person can now receive broadcasts if I do send out a broadcast
to everybody. Whereas people who are still new coming into the system are excluded
from broadcasts if I ever do a broadcast whereas I think most other systems you get to the
point where somebody subscribes today and then suddenly tomorrow they are part of this
launch sequence because that is just the timing on their part. They've got no context, they
are just given this person they have an email address for without a sort of trust and hope
they can solve a problem. And suddenly they are a part of this launch that is just played
out. So that is what I kind of do, it is the bottom layer of the system and that whole thing
is automated. The layer above that is the broadcast when I can cherrypick where that
broadcast email is going to go. And that is the higher layer. Because the broadcast isn't
the main part of the system.

S: That is such a powerful distinction. Not everybody should get the broadcast emails,
they should meet a certain threshold of expressed interest before they get any kind of
broadcast, that's amazing. And when we are talking these open loops, that reminds me of
when you learn about how films are made. There is always this story arc. You take the
viewer on this journey. And if you were to just happy ending or if there was happy in the
middle too, then there just wasn't any story of struggle, we wouldn't be engaged. Keeping
people really riveted through the story arc. This is a critical concept I think for listeners to
get.

A: Yeah, absolutely. I've been a big fan of Lost and all those tv series that the whole thing
is just loops. I use that in my emails for a million years now, and it works really really well.
Over time I've got better at understanding story and telling story and since then I've
become very good friends with a story coach who coaches me. He helps me get better at
stories. My storytelling is getting better. You don't have to be some crazy monster

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

 opt in

storyteller to write these emails. The most important thing is the system, the structure of
sending emails to people. You don't have to have the best emails in the world to do that.

S: Just to wrap up here, one more thought that - I heard this was a best practice and I just
want to get your take on it. It's called the nine word email. And I know Taki Moore loves this,
he uses it in his own business. Kind of goes against what you've been saying, giving a certain
amount of context when they convey their intent. A nine word email doesn't even have a link
necessarily. It is just like an open-ended question. Kind of like a friendly - "hey" - I don't know,
what would be an example of a nine word email? What is your thought process on sending
the nine word emails?

A: I don't use them that often, but

they do work well. I'm not sure who
made it popular, but it is no
“You don't have to be some different than sending an email to a
crazy monster storyteller to friend, it is just a quick little thing.
write these emails. The most But if you've set up context before
that point, it doesn't have to be in
important thing is the system,
that email. If you've queued up a
the structure of sending
certain thing, and they are
emails to people. You don't expecting this email, it doesn't have
have to have the best emails to be in that email. That email that
in the world to do that.” they get doesn't have to be a long
email. It is just "okay, be ready. If
you understood, hit reply and let
me know." That could be nine word
email or a seven word email and it
can work really well. Probably
wouldn't use a short email early on in the sequence where somebody doesn't yet know me at
least on a deep level and I haven't established myself as an authority for their perspective.
Then I probably wouldn't use that. Because then you're just trying to get clicks. And then
trying to close somebody, which is fine I guess, depending on the way you want to do things.
For me, I wouldn't use short emails until later on in the sequence until I've already established
things.

S: Okay, well this has been a fabulous episode. You just delivered a ton of value, thank you so
much. How would somebody find you if they maybe wanted to sign up for AutoResponder
Madness or I guess Storyfluence would be the main thing to go into. The story based
marketing and the email and the whole academy. Where would they go and how could they
reach you if they wanted to sign up?

A: One thing you could do is my name, andrechaperon.com. And I started to blog again for
the first time in nine years. I blogged many years ago for four years and then took a nine year
break. So one of the things I've started to do now, this month literally, is I've started to blog
again. I enjoy it, it is an outlet.

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

 opt in

So that is all happening on andrechaperon.com. From there, there's links to the various
other stuff I do. If anything that is the best place to start.

S: Perfect, well welcome back to the blogosphere! I took a long hiatus myself. I still blog
with Search Engine Land and Huffington Post but not so much on stephanspencer.com. I
need to get back into that. Occasionally I will post there, but I'm kind of a few months
behind you there. Cool, and so andrechaperon.com, and listeners if you also want to go to
marketingspeak.com and grab the shownotes and the transcript to this episode. The
transcript is a nicely formatted pdf, and it has got a checklist with some of the key points
and actions to take from this episode are just right there for you to start ticking off the
boxes. So definitely go to marketingspeak.com and grab that transcript. Thank you Andre
for the great knowledge you shared, and thank you listeners!

A: It has been a pleasure, Stephan, and this has been great!

S: We'll catch you on The Optimized Geek where we are going to talk all sorts of cool stuff
like lifestyle design and biohacking.

A: I'm excited, yeah.

S: Looking forward to that too! Well catch you guys on the next episode, thanks for
listening!

© 2015 Stephan Spencer

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STEPHAN SPENCER BIO:
Stephan Spencer is an internationally recognized SEO expert
and bestselling author. He is the co-author of The Art of SEO
(3rd edition - August 2015), author of Google Power Search and
co-author of Social eCommerce, all published by O’Reilly.
Stephan founded Netconcepts, an SEO and interactive agency
in the 1990's, and sold it to Covario in 2010. He invented a pay-
for-performance SEO technology called GravityStream that was
also acquired and is now part of Rio SEO. Stephan's recent SEO
clients have included such retail giants as Zappos, Sony Store,
Quiksilver, Best Buy Canada, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Chanel.
Stephan has spoken at countless hundreds of Internet
marketing events, including all the major search & e-commerce
conferences (SES, SMX, PubCon, Internet Retailer, Shop.org,
eTail, etc.). He’s been a contributor to the Huffington Post,
Multichannel Merchant, Practical Ecommerce, Search Engine
Land, DM News and MarketingProfs, to name a few.
KRIS JONES BIO:
Kris Jones is a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, angel
investor, and accomplished public speaker. Kris was the founder
and former President and CEO of Pepperjam, a full-service
internet marketing agency and affiliate network he founded in
1999 and sold to eBay Enterprise in 2009. In 2010 Kris founded
an early stage technology investment fund and incubator called
KBJ Capital. Kris is a contributing writer for Forbes, Inc., Fast
Company, Business Insider, and Citi Bank Financial. Kris has
been quoted as a business and marketing expert in over 50
publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Entrepreneur
Magazine, Huffington Post, Business.com, Fox Business,
Mashable, Black Enterprise, and Success Magazine. Kristopher is
the author of the best-selling book: “Search-Engine
Optimization: Your Visual Blueprint to Effective Internet
Marketing,” which was originally published in 2008. Most
recently Kris released the Third Edition of SEO Visual Blueprint
(April 2013). In 2014 Kris published the book Local Search
Engine Optimization – Crush Your Competition by Outranking
them on Google.
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