Casey Rose Jury Trial Volume 2

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Case 3:14-cr-00367-B Document 2545 Filed 06/27/16 Page 1 of 257 PageID 8860
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
DALLAS DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

)
Plaintiff, )
)
vs. ) 3:14-CR-00367-B(26)
)
CASEY ROSE, )
)
Defendant. )
JURY TRIAL - VOLUME 2

BEFORE THE HONORABLE JANE J. BOYLE
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
SEPTEMBER 15, 2015
A P P E A R A N C E S
FOR THE GOVERNMENT:
UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

1100 Commerce Street - 3rd Floor
Dallas, TX 75242
214/659-8600
BY: P.J. MEITL
JOHN KULL
PRO SE: CASEY ROSE, DEFENDANT
STANDBY COUNSEL:
LAW OFFICE OF SCOTT M. ANDERSON

9557 Lakemont Drive
Dallas, TX 75220
469/279-2196
BY: SCOTT M. ANDERSON
COURT REPORTER: SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, TX CCR No. 7533

1100 Commerce Street
Dallas, Texas 75242
proceedings reported by mechanical stenography,

transcript produced by computer.
SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, CSR/CRR

FEDERAL COURT REPORTER - 214.753.2747
2
JURY TRIAL - VOLUME 2
Pretrial Matters 4
SPECIAL AGENT ERIC WILSON

(Outside Jury's presence)
Direct Examination by Mr. Meitl 12
BRIAN C. EMERSON
Cross-Examination (Cont'd) by Mr. Rose 23
RENEA ECKELKAMP
Direct Examination by Mr. Kull 39

Cross-Examination by Mr. Rose 52
Redirect Examination by Mr. Kull 56
Recross-Examination by Mr. Rose 58
Re-Redirect Examination by Mr. Kull 60
GREG WEATHERFORD
Direct Examination By Mr. Meitl 61

SPECIAL AGENT WILSON
Direct Examination by Mr. Meitl 92

CHRIS LEDBETTER

Redirect Examination by Mr. Kull 229
Recross-Examination by Mr. Rose 231
Re-Redirect Examination by Mr. Kull 232
Re-Recross Examination by Mr. Rose 233
DANIEL MEADE

Reporter's Certificate 254

3
EXHIBITS ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE:
Government's Exhibit 28 48
Government's Exhibit 5 (record purposes) 127
Government's Exhibit 2 (record purposes) 138
Government's Exhibit 5 (for all purposes) 185
Government's Exhibit 25 (6 through 22) 200
Government's Exhibits 31 - 39 206
*********************************************
Defense Exhibit 1 156

4
1 (In open court at 8:37 a.m.)
2 THE COURT: Good morning. Couple of
3 things -- is that a jacket you have on? Changed
4 your mind?
5 MR. ROSE: No, ma'am, I didn't change my
6 mind. This is what I wanted to do. I wanted to
7 come in with short sleeves yesterday. That way
8 there are no surprises to the jury. That way
9 Mr. Meitl can't say, look at this man over here. He
10 looks really nice dressed like this, but let me tell
11 you about the real Casey Rose. The real Casey Rose
12 has tattoos and this and this. So I wanted to
13 explain that to the jury first. They're going to
14 see it.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Just so the record
16 reflects, you have a long-sleeved jacket on and a
17 long-sleeved white oxford shirt.
18 MR. ROSE: Correct.
19 THE COURT: Couple of things I wanted to
20 talk about. One was the transcripts and the
21 government's plan on the audio videotape. I have a
22 couple of thoughts on that. The transcripts, you're
23 going to have to lay a predicate. If you want to,
24 we could do that outside the presence of the jury
25 with Mr. Rose getting a chance to hear this, ask

5
1 questions and object. He has a right to object to
2 the transcripts for whatever reason. I also need to
3 give the jury a limiting instruction on the
4 transcripts.
5 Mr. Rose -- do you have your witness here?
6 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, he is downstairs.
7 I can get him up here in a minute. If we are going
8 to do it outside the presence of the jury, we can do
9 it through Special Agent Wilson. He is the one that
10 conducted the interview.
11 THE COURT: I don't want to get into the
12 middle of your trial strategy. Do you have a
13 preference --
14 MR. MEITL: I'm happy to put Special Agent
15 Wilson on for that limited purpose without the jury.
16 THE COURT: Okay. What we are doing,
17 Mr. Rose, there are some things -- I'm not your
18 lawyer, and I can't help you. But there are some
19 things for the record that the Court has to make
20 sure are correct, and that is that the transcripts
21 that are going to be used by the jury to review and
22 listen to with the tape, that they accurately
23 reflect what is said in there. And they -- and also
24 that I tell the jury that they are not to rely on
25 the transcripts; the transcripts, themselves, are

6
1 not evidence and will not go back there, but just to
2 aid in their reading of them. If the transcripts
3 differ from what they hear, they are to rely on what
4 they hear. Okay?
5 So what we are talking about now is going
6 ahead and, instead of going through all that
7 rigmarole in front of the jury, is doing the
8 predicate now so you can hear their foundation and
9 let me know if you have any objections.
10 Is that all right with you? It's up to
11 you.
12 MR. ROSE: Can you just give me a few
13 seconds to think about what you said?
14 THE COURT: Sure. In fact, while you do
15 that, I need to get one thing off my desk. So
16 excuse me for one minute.
17 (Pause in the proceedings.)
18 THE COURT: Okay. Where are we, Mr. Rose?
19 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. The deal with the
20 transcript is, I would like -- you said the
21 transcript is not going to be admitted into
22 evidence, so they can't go back there and look at
23 it. Is that correct?
24 THE COURT: What I will let them do is
25 this. I had a trial last week, and we did the same

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1 thing. It won't go back to the jury room. They can
2 use it while they are listening. If they have a
3 question about something that was said in the --
4 when they are back deliberating and they want to
5 hear the tape again with the aid of the transcript,
6 then they will each be handed the transcript out
7 here to listen to the tape with the transcript and
8 sent back without the transcripts. That's how we do
9 it.
10 MR. ROSE: All right. I think it would be
11 best beneficial to me, the defendant, if I could
12 have this transcript admitted into evidence for the
13 simple fact the transcriber that did it, did it and
14 they gave it to Agent Wilson and said, will you
15 check it to see if it's right or accurate, and
16 apparently some things might have been changed. And
17 those things that might have been changed are things
18 that I'm relating my case to, which you will see,
19 plain as day, ma'am, when I prove my case.
20 THE COURT: Here's the way we will do it.
21 We will do it the way I normally do it, which is
22 what the law requires. And then when it's your turn
23 on cross, you can offer it and use it. It's up to
24 you. But it's considered more to the defendant's
25 detriment to offer it into evidence, do you

8
1 understand that, than it is to do it the way I
2 described it.
3 MR. ROSE: Normally I believe that to be
4 so, ma'am. But for this case, I promise you, I
5 would like to put it in as evidence.
6 THE COURT: That's fine. All right. So I
7 think -- putting that aside for a minute -- on this
8 hour and a half tape, instead of playing it twice,
9 what I'm going to have you do is, you will have a
10 running objection to the tape. You don't have to
11 keep objecting. You can on certain points if you
12 want, but you have a running objection that you will
13 not waive.
14 When you hear parts that you think are
15 something you want to play back, just a make a note.
16 You can stand up and say, "This is one of the
17 portions," that way -- that's probably a better way
18 to do it. Let Mr. Meitl know what those portions
19 are. If you keep doing it to where it's
20 interrupting, we may have to try a different
21 approach. That way we can just go to those parts.
22 But I'm not going to play an hour-and-a-half tape
23 twice just to play it twice. You are going to have
24 to have some reason for going back to sections we
25 have already heard. Okay?

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1 MR. ROSE: The reason, ma'am, is because
2 I'm alleging that the videotape has been altered.
3 So to be able for the jury to think -- they are not
4 thinking it's been altered, because I'm not going to
5 be able to say. We will watch it first, and then I
6 will say, now, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I
7 would like this to be played back, and keep in mind
8 that certain parts -- not the whole thing, ma'am.
9 You're absolutely right. I need about ten minutes
10 of certain parts just to show -- because there will
11 be reasoning of, why was Officer Eric Wilson saying
12 this when it had no relevance? Something must have
13 been said prior to make reference to things. And
14 they can go back to the transcript and read that
15 nothing in the transcript said anything about it, so
16 apparently something was altered out of there.
17 THE COURT: Okay. What I am hearing you
18 say is, you may have certain parts, maybe ten
19 minutes, maybe more, but not necessarily the entire
20 hour and a half, and I will let you go back to those
21 parts you think you can show have been altered.
22 Okay?
23 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am.
24 THE COURT: We will just go as we go.
25 Mr. Kull?

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1 MR. KULL: Just quickly on that note. On
2 the videotape, there is a software time on the
3 bottom. I would request that if Mr. Rose has a
4 question or a time he wants to stop, it's going to
5 be the time in the upper corner in white letters,
6 that's the actual time, and that would be the time,
7 because the software time is incorrect.
8 THE COURT: So he will say what?
9 MR. KULL: I think he can either write it
10 down and let us know, hey, I want to go back to
11 4:52:36 or something like that, and that would be
12 much easier than trying to use the software time at
13 the bottom, because the software timing does not
14 match up.
15 THE COURT: When we get started, will you
16 make sure you point out to him what you are talking
17 about so it's clear where it is, this number is, so
18 we don't have to go back and figure it out later?
19 MR. KULL: Yes, Your Honor.
20 MR. ROSE: And will they explain why this
21 software time is not matching up? Can they explain
22 that?
23 THE COURT: Mr. Meitl?
24 MR. MEITL: Yes. When you open the
25 file -- it's a very large file. So as it opens, the

11
1 time expands. That's just the way the software
2 works, Windows Media Player. I know Mr. Rose thinks
3 it's all nefarious. It's just the way the software
4 works. The time stamp in the top records the actual
5 time of day the interview was taking place. So it
6 will say 4:45 p.m. when it began and it goes to
7 about 5:30 or so.
8 So we are just asking Mr. Rose to look at
9 that time in the upper left-hand corner because that
10 will make it easier on the paralegal; whereas, if
11 you look at the bottom time, it will continually
12 change throughout the video.
13 THE COURT: So that we are clear, the
14 government has no objection to trying to lay the
15 predicate for the transcripts and the tapes through
16 Agent Wilson?
17 MR. MEITL: Absolutely, Your Honor, we are
18 happy to do that.
19 THE COURT: You have no problem doing that
20 outside the presence of the jury?
21 MR. ROSE: Using Agent Wilson? No, ma'am.
22 THE COURT: Using Agent Wilson to talk
23 about the transcripts and the tapes.
24 MR. ROSE: No, ma'am.
25 THE COURT: Okay. Agent Wilson, are you

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1 ready to go?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
3 MR. ROSE: Ma'am, we weren't done
4 yesterday with the witness. Mr. Brian Emerson, we
5 were still questioning him.
6 THE COURT: Right, we will get to that.
7 This way we won't have to take a break, unless
8 you-all -- well, we're not finished with him. You
9 are continuing to cross him, right?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 (Witness sworn.)
13 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Please be seated,
14 and state and spell your name for the court
15 reporter.
16 THE WITNESS: Eric Wilson. E-R-I-C,
17 W-I-L-S-O-N.
18 SPECIAL AGENT ERIC WILSON,
19 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
20 DIRECT EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. MEITL:
22 Q. Special Agent Wilson, did you interview the
23 defendant, Casey Rose, on July 29th, 2014?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Where did this interview take place?

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1 A. At the Dallas Police Department headquarters.
2 Q. Who was in the room during the interview?
3 A. Myself and Casey Rose.
4 Q. And do you see Casey Rose in the courtroom
5 today?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Can you identify where he is in the courtroom
8 and what he's wearing?
9 A. Sitting at the defense table wearing a black
10 jacket and a white shirt.
11 MR. ROSE: Objection, Your Honor. I would
12 like for the jury to be hearing when I cross-examine
13 him. He's the whole reason I'm saying that he was
14 lying, and I need the jury to hear it. That's part
15 of the case.
16 THE COURT: That was my question. Do you
17 mind laying the predicate for the transcripts and
18 the tapes here outside the presence of the jury. It
19 doesn't mean Agent Wilson can't be called to the
20 witness stand and asked questions.
21 Who is the witness on the tape?
22 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, I was just going
23 to bring it in through Officer Greg Weatherford. He
24 was there. He observed the video. We can do it
25 that way if Mr. Rose prefers. This was just to save

14
1 time and to prevent breaks. If you prefer us to
2 bring up Officer Weatherford, we can do that. The
3 defendant will certainly get a chance to
4 cross-examine Agent Wilson on multiple occasions
5 after this.
6 THE COURT: Otherwise, I think we will
7 just waste our time here.
8 MR. ROSE: Your Honor, I would like for
9 the jury to hear this. They are the one judging me.
10 THE COURT: I misunderstood what you said
11 you wanted.
12 MR. ROSE: I misunderstood what you said,
13 too. I apologize.
14 THE COURT: I'm as clear as I can be now.
15 Go ahead and step down, Agent Wilson.
16 Do we have the transcripts ready?
17 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Is the jury all here yet?
19 We can get started early. Is there
20 anything else before we get started?
21 Mr. Rose, anything else before we get
22 started? We are going to start as soon as the jury
23 gets here. They are not all here yet.
24 MR. ROSE: Before -- I would like --
25 because when we started this trial, they said --

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1 Mr. Meitl said we were going to tell this like a
2 story, like a book, start at the beginning and go to
3 the end. I would like to keep going in
4 chronological order of it, the way the events
5 occurred. That way we can stay on that track. That
6 way we're not jumping forward and going back and
7 going forward.
8 THE COURT: I know that's what they said,
9 and I think that's the plan. But they have a right
10 to present their case, with the Court's permission,
11 in the fashion that they choose. Right now it looks
12 like we are going in that direction. Understood if
13 they go the opposite direction or anything else that
14 you object to it. I overrule the objection for
15 right now. Anything else? I don't anticipate
16 that's going to happen. It's their choice.
17 Anything else?
18 MR. ROSE: I will get to finish
19 cross-examining Mr. Brian Emerson?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. ROSE: All right. The reason for my
22 objection is because I don't want things being said
23 now -- I think it will confuse the jury when we say
24 we're going to go in chronological order of the way
25 the events happened. That's my only concern is that

16
1 the jury would get confused because we would be
2 jumping around.
3 THE COURT: Understand.
4 MR. ROSE: Thank you.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 Mr. Rose anything else?
7 MR. ROSE: That's it, ma'am. Thank you.
8 THE COURT: Anything else from the
9 government?
10 MR. MEITL: No, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: All right. And Mr. Meitl, I'm
12 going to ask you, if I could, to just describe the
13 setup, the decorum, the covering of the shackles so
14 that we have done it again today.
15 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. At the
16 beginning of court today, Mr. Rose has been shackled
17 like he was yesterday during trial. He has one foot
18 shackled underneath the table. His arms are free;
19 he's able to move his arms freely. He's able to
20 stand up freely without the appearance of being
21 shackled. He can move back and forth along the
22 table. He can even make it all the way to the
23 podium if the Court would allow that.
24 THE COURT: Excuse me. Mr. Morales?
25 DEPUTY MARSHAL MORALES: We changed it,

17
1 ma'am, back to the original thing. He can only stay
2 here, not make it to the podium.
3 THE COURT: Okay. He can't make it to the
4 podium. But we hadn't planned on using the -- as we
5 call it -- the lecturn today and we won't be using
6 that again until the closing arguments.
7 So right now let me see you stand up,
8 Mr. Rose.
9 Okay. Are you having any trouble moving
10 around and standing it?
11 MR. ROSE: This is it. I'm not going
12 anywhere other than right here.
13 THE COURT: You can't move to the lecturn,
14 you are able to move sufficiently within that
15 confined --
16 MR. ROSE: I'm able just to stand up,
17 ma'am.
18 THE COURT: You can stand up fine, though.
19 MR. ROSE: I can stand up fine.
20 THE COURT: And sit down fine.
22 THE COURT: Mr. Morales, anything else?
23 DEPUTY MARSHAL MORALES: That's it.
25 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. Just to

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1 complete that circle: Mr. Rose is able to stand up
2 freely; does not appear he is shackled. The jury
3 from the jury box cannot see he is shackled. I
4 don't believe there to be any sound that you can
5 hear. We cannot hear any sound of the irons
6 clanking. So by all outward appearances, Mr. Rose
7 is not shackled.
8 THE COURT: Thank you. I agree with that
9 assessment from this perspective. And again, as the
10 jury comes in they can't see anything but the front
11 and side of the table. They can't see him or his
12 feet or anything behind the table. Okay.
13 We're missing one juror.
14 Is there anything else that we have to
15 take up? We have Government's Exhibits 73, 74 and
16 72 admitted.
17 MR. ROSE: I was going to object to one of
18 those for the simple fact that I believe Number 73
19 is talking about a digital scale that was taken from
20 Casey Rose, when the officer specifically said on
21 the stand he found it in the back seat of the car.
22 He didn't find it on Casey Rose.
23 THE COURT: You can cross-examine him on
24 that. I have already admitted it. To the extent I
25 hadn't admitted it, I would overrule that and say it

19
1 goes to the weight for the jury to it give it and
2 not the admissibility. So it's in.
3 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, just for
4 clarification, when we submit the final exhibit
5 list, we will adjust that to just say digital scale
6 recovered from car on July 29th, because that is
7 what the witness said, so there will be no dispute
8 about that.
9 MR. ROSE: I should object to that,
10 because I don't feel like it's right for the
11 government to put evidence in and then adjusting the
12 evidence. It was in when the trial started, and I
13 don't feel it's right to adjust it afterwards.
14 THE COURT: Maybe Mr. Meitl can explain
15 what he meant by adjust.
16 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. The exhibit
17 list has not been provided to the jury, so they
18 don't know that it was identified as such. All that
19 has been explained to the jury so far is what
20 Mr. Emerson stated, which is that he recovered that
21 scale.
22 At the end of the trial, the government
23 and the defense will coordinate with a final exhibit
24 list of all admitted exhibits and identify those
25 exhibits. And all I was suggesting was that we

20
1 would identify those exhibits appropriately. So I
2 believe Mr. Rose's objection was that exhibit list
3 inappropriately titled that exhibit; we would fix
4 that to reflect his concerns.
5 THE COURT: The jury doesn't have that
6 notation that you just described that's on the
7 witness and exhibit list. They don't get that.
8 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. Well, if you are
9 saying -- what you're saying -- if you're saying
10 he's right, you're the judge. If I can't object and
11 have it thrown out, you're right.
12 THE COURT: What I am saying is, the
13 concern you have is not before the jury. Where it
14 is found is not in front of the jury right now.
15 That exhibit list that says that, they don't get and
16 they haven't gotten it and will not get it. All
17 right?
18 MR. ROSE: But the evidence specifically
19 states that they are using that it was found on
20 Casey Rose. The evidence says that.
21 THE COURT: Right.
22 MR. ROSE: I'm telling you that's not
23 true.
24 THE COURT: With the appropriate --
25 MR. ROSE: What the officer is saying is

21
1 not true.
2 THE COURT: You're going to have to let me
3 finish.
4 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry.
5 THE COURT: With the appropriate
6 witness -- you can ask them if there is an
7 appropriate witness that has personal knowledge of
8 that. But again, it's just administrative materials
9 that don't go to the jury. There are a lot of
10 administrative materials that don't go to the jury,
11 and that's part of that. Okay?
12 Mr. Rose, you did pretty well yesterday.
13 I'm going to ask you again and just tell you again,
14 please keep your cool today. You got a little bit
15 agitated yesterday, and that makes everybody nervous
16 because you don't want to blow your trial by getting
17 the jury concerned about the way you are acting as
18 opposed to what you are saying, so. . .
20 Do you feel the jury is concerned now?
21 THE COURT: I just think that you were
22 just about to cross the line yesterday with being a
23 little bit too agitated. And I don't think that's
24 ever good in front of a jury, whether it's a lawyer
25 or a party. And I'm just telling you that I would

22
1 keep it cool as much as you can.
2 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. I'm a very passive
3 person, ma'am. I was just really showing aggression
4 towards the fact of being falsely accused. And if
5 anybody is being -- when an officer is lying on
6 them, they should be mad. They shouldn't just say
7 okay. You should have a little emotion, ma'am.
8 THE COURT: I'm not telling you not to
9 show emotion, but you just don't want to get to the
10 point where it looks like you are about to do
11 something.
12 MR. ROSE: Can I start crying? Would that
13 be okay?
14 THE COURT: I'm not going to address that
15 ridiculous question.
16 okay. Let's see if they are here yet.
18 THE COURT: Hopefully they will all be
19 here in a few minutes. I'll be back out when they
20 are.
21 (Recess taken from 8:58 to 9:02.)
22 (Jury enters courtroom.)
23 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and
24 gentlemen. Thank you for getting here on time.
25 Sounds like everyone got out of town last night and

23
1 got back in this morning. Great news.
2 All right. We're going to continue with
3 Mr. Rose's cross-examination of the detective, if
4 you will go ahead.
6 BRIAN C. EMERSON,
7 having been previously sworn, testified as follows:
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION (CONT'D)
9 BY MR. ROSE:
10 Q. Detective Emerson, let me see if I remember
11 right. You said that you did an inventory of the
12 car, of the Impala?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And I remember you said something about you
15 made a scooping motion with your hands. You were
16 scooping up what appeared to be methamphetamine out
17 of the back dash window, is that correct, when you
18 were doing that?
19 A. Yes, sir, in addition to the floorboard.
20 Q. In addition to the floorboard. All right.
21 Could you tell -- could you tell us how much alleged
22 methamphetamine you got, you acquired?
23 A. It would be the amount that's on the drug tag,
24 sir.
25 Q. Could you look at that and tell us, please?

24
1 A. Six-tenths of a gram.
2 Q. Six-tenths of a gram.
3 Could you explain -- tell me if I'm correct or
4 not. Like a little sugar pack of Equal or sugar,
5 that's one serving, that's one gram, is that
6 correct, for the most part? When you get Equal,
7 Sweet'N Low, whatever, that's one gram. And you're
8 saying six-tenths, then. So half of that is what
9 you scooped up; is that correct?
10 A. Sir, I don't have a bag of sugar or a caffeine
11 additive. I can't tell you if that's the weight or
12 not of the physical bag that you are describing. I
13 can't say that.
14 Q. Okay. Would you mind -- I know yesterday you
15 said you didn't want to open up the bag with the
16 drugs in it because you didn't want it to spew all
17 over the place in here. I think you made a
18 reference to that. If it's collected, it's
19 collected in another bag. It's collected into a
20 plastic bag right now, is it not? So the plastic
21 bag shouldn't have any no holes in it, I would hope.
22 A. I have no idea. I haven't opened --
23 THE COURT: Here's the problem. Are you
24 going to ask him to open it or get into that?
25 MR. ROSE: I would just like for him to

25
1 hold the drugs up to show that they have drugs.
2 THE COURT: Understood. But there are
3 concerns with even that, because those drugs can
4 permeate even the plastic bag. And I certainly
5 don't want to take any chances, having had
6 experience with that in the past in the courtroom
7 with that here. So if there is another way to do
8 this, you can certainly ask him the questions, but I
9 don't want him to opening the bag.
10 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Can you show us a picture of the
11 evidence?
12 A. I don't know --
13 Q. Excuse me, sir. Did you take a picture of the
14 evidence?
15 A. I personally did not. I'm not sure if there
16 was taken of it in its original state before it was
17 processed, sir. I have no idea.
18 Q. Okay. Sir, because my concern is that there's
19 no drugs in there, sir, that you didn't get any
20 drugs out of the car. That's my concern, that the
21 drugs that you found on the driver in his pocket are
22 the drugs I'm being charged with right now. That's
23 my concern, sir. Is that true or not true?
24 A. That's not true, because he was charged
25 independently with his weight, and that's the

26
1 driver, Mr. Livar. I found the narcotics in his
2 right front pant pocket. In addition, I found the
3 narcotics in the area you were sitting, in the
4 headboard area, as well as the floorboard, and there
5 was some in the seats. It was scattered amongst
6 there. I personally handled all of this. I can
7 tell you this, everything was separated; I was very
8 methodical when I processed it. That's why those
9 drugs are on a completely different narcotic drug
10 evidence tag, sir.
11 Q. The way you are describing it, you are
12 describing you found drugs in the back dash and the
13 seat and the floorboard, sir. And the way you are
14 describing it and the way I'm hearing you describe
15 it, it sounds like you found a lot of drugs; sounds
16 like you got a lot of drugs.
17 But six-tenths of a gram -- ten pieces of
18 paper -- ten sheets of paper weigh one gram. A
19 one-dollar-bill weighs one gram, I can guarantee you
20 that. A dollar bill weighs one gram. And you are
21 saying you found six-tenths of a gram. That's about
22 half of a dollar bill weight-wise of drugs, sir.
23 I'm not calling you a liar -- maybe I am calling you
24 a liar. And I apologize if I am, sir, but it just
25 don't sound right. It don't sound right. You found

27
1 drugs in the top, in the floorboard and there that
2 you physically picked up, and you're saying it was
3 only .6 of a gram, basically the weight of a dollar
4 bill ripped in half.
5 THE COURT: Waiting for a question.
6 MR. ROSE: Ma'am?
7 THE COURT: Question.
8 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Is that true or not?
9 A. You made a lot of generalized statements, sir,
10 but you did not ask me a question.
11 Q. Sir, you're telling me and everybody in here
12 under oath that all the drugs you collected was --
13 it -- did you test it? Did you test the drugs?
14 A. A presumptive test was done at that location.
15 Q. It was?
16 A. Hold on. I apologize. It was not.
17 Q. No problem. No problem. And I'm sorry if I
18 seem like I'm getting agitated and this and that,
19 but when somebody is lying, I just can't believe it
20 because it's hurting me right now.
21 Give me a second, sir.
22 Your partner was with you, sir? Did your
23 partner inventory the drugs, or did you inventory
24 the drugs?
25 A. I found the drugs on the arrestee, Mr. Livar,

28
1 who was the driver of the vehicle, as well as I
2 recovered the ones that were found in the area that
3 you were sitting, again, sir.
4 Q. Sir, did you see me throw the drugs out the
5 window?
6 A. I addressed that yesterday. No, I did not,
7 sir.
8 Q. But I'm being alleged to doing it. Would
9 you -- would you, as an officer, be kind of mad if
10 drugs got thrown out the window and I was the target
11 and you couldn't put drugs on me, would you find a
12 way to put drugs on me?
13 A. Sir, if the evidence is there, it's there; if
14 not, it's not. It's not worth my career and ethics
15 to sit here for one arrest. I have had that happen
16 hundreds of times, whether it being running warrants
17 or traffic stops. It happens daily. I don't take
18 it personally, it's just how things work out.
19 Q. You said yesterday, sir, that you found some
20 scales, digital scales?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You pulled those out. They might have had
23 residue on them, and you pulled them out into the
24 air right, right? You pulled those out of evidence
25 and showed us.

29
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. The digital scales, you pulled those out and
3 held them up. And those were presumably scales that
4 weighed methamphetamine, the dangerous drug that
5 we're afraid to see in a plastic bag; is that
6 correct?
7 A. I was asked to present it to you, as well as
8 the jury panel, yes, sir.
9 Q. All right. Did you take a picture of those
10 scales?
11 A. Again, sir, the pictures that were taken, I'm
12 not sure what the --
13 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may, there is
14 a picture in the exhibits that has been provided to
15 the Court and can be provided to the jury of the
16 digital scale.
17 THE COURT: Do you know what number that
18 is?
20 THE COURT: And Mr. Rose has a copy of it?
22 THE COURT: Do you have a copy of it in
23 your hand?
24 MR. ROSE: Yes, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: What exhibit is it.

30
1 MR. ROSE: It's Exhibit 73, ma'am.
2 THE COURT: And that was admitted
3 yesterday.
4 Q. (By Mr. Rose) So there is a picture of the
5 scales.
6 Why isn't there a picture of the drugs is what
7 I'm asking, sir?
8 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may object.
9 The picture was taken of the digital scale for
10 purposes of trial. Again, we did not open up the
11 drugs prior to trial. We kept them sealed prior to
12 trial, so we did not take a picture of the drugs
13 prior to trial.
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 MR. ROSE: Were the drugs not taken a
16 picture of while they were in the bag to prove
17 that -- that's the proof right there.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, this isn't between
19 you and the prosecutor. Do you have a question of
20 the witness?
21 Q. (By Mr. Rose) He's saying he didn't take a
22 picture -- there's no dash-cam evidence to prove
23 this. There's -- basically, sir, it's your word
24 against mine right now is what I'm getting at; is
25 that right?

31
1 A. It would appear that way, yes, sir.
2 Q. All right. I'm almost done with you, sir. I
3 apologize.
4 Was there any -- did I have any money on me?
5 A. I don't recall offhand, sir. If there was, it
6 would have been -- from what I recall, it would
7 either be in your property or elsewhere. I
8 personally don't recall you having anything on you.
9 You may or may not have. I recall getting a cell
10 phone off your person.
11 Q. What did you do with that cell phone?
12 A. I gave it to Agent Wilson.
13 Q. When did you give it to Agent Wilson?
14 A. That day.
15 Q. What time -- or how long after the fact that
16 you got the cell phone from me did you give it to
17 Agent Wilson?
18 A. In a timely manner; within an hour.
19 Q. Okay. Within an our. Okay. You're a
20 detective. Were you a Gang Unit detective?
21 A. No, sir. I addressed that yesterday. I work
22 in our Criminal Intelligence Division. We work
23 organized crime and terrorism, sir.
24 Q. But the Gang Unit officers were called in,
25 correct?

32
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And were they called in because of -- because
3 I'm an alleged gang member? Was there anybody in
4 the car -- what I'm getting at, were any of the
5 other passengers gang members?
6 A. Not to my knowledge, but I know you are a
7 documented gang member, TxGANG, which is a state
8 gang member database, sir.
9 Q. When did you know this?
10 A. I knew it prior to this day, this incident.
11 Q. You knew it before you jerked me out of the
12 car -- or the female officer did -- you knew I was a
13 gang member then.
14 A. Prior to this encounter on this particular day,
15 yes, sir, I knew you were a documented gang member.
16 Q. How did you know that?
17 A. I have access to TxGANG, the gang database in
18 which you were documented, sir.
19 Q. So you are telling me under oath that that day
20 you checked that database, which I can
21 cross-reference it, and it will say I was a gang
22 member? It will say when it was uploaded to that
23 day? What I'm telling you is, I'm calling you a
24 liar, sir. I'm telling you before that day I was
25 never an alleged gang member at all is what I am

33
1 telling you, sir. So when you're saying you checked
2 the database right now, you're lying, sir. I
3 guarantee that.
4 THE COURT: Need a question. Need a
5 question.
6 MR. ROSE: Okay.
7 Q. (By Mr. Rose) One more thing. This is the
8 last thing, sir. I'm trying to be able to word it
9 in a question and not an argument.
10 You said I left Spruce Square Apartments --
11 Agent Wilson called you and said I got into a car.
12 Where was you at when that call came in? Was you at
13 Spruce Square Apartments, too?
14 A. I told you yesterday I was not on site. I was
15 in a nearby area on the south side of C.F. Hawn and
16 St. Augustine. There is a gas station at the
17 southwest corner. That's where I was, sir. I
18 addressed this yesterday.
19 Q. Did you see the car drive by you?
20 A. The vehicle -- the vehicle you were found to be
21 an occupant in passed right by us going southbound
22 on St. Augustine to CF Hawn Freeway, yes, sir.
23 Q. From Spruce Square to C.F. Hawn Freeway is
24 about 100 yards, it's right there. So you were
25 sitting at that gas station presumably waiting for

34
1 the car to leave. And when the car left, you got in
2 pursuit and followed it.
3 A. We weren't in pursuit, sir. We followed you
4 loosely. Pursuit is something in a patrol capacity
5 and a marked squad car. I was in a covert vehicle.
6 We were following you loosely, just maintaining eyes
7 on you, yes, sir.
8 Q. Correct. And the car got right onto the
9 highway, took a -- took a left onto the highway.
10 You observed traffic violations, and then you
11 radioed in for a marked police car to pull the car
12 over, correct?
13 A. We observed moving violations on the highway.
14 Q. Correct, sir?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. All right. Sir, could you tell me -- because
17 the marked police car was behind the Golden Chicken,
18 I have already asked the officers. I was
19 watching -- I personally was turned around in the
20 seat and watching y'all. Okay?
21 When the car got -- when -- where y'all were
22 at, the marked police car, before we even got on the
23 highway, the marked police car was coming after us.
24 Did you or did you not radio in to that marked
25 police car and say, pull him over for anything, just

35
1 make a traffic violation up?
2 A. No, because that would contradict our whole
3 reason for contact and our probable cause for an
4 encounter for you. We have to have a reason for
5 contact to initiate a traffic stop. You can't just
6 go pulling people over.
7 Q. No, you can't, sir. That's against people's
8 rights.
9 A. I agree.
10 Q. Thank you. But if you do not have a video to
11 constitute what you are saying, you can pretty much
12 do whatever you want to do and say. Because up
13 until this point, I never known -- and I believe --
14 is it true or is it not true that the Dallas Police
15 Department, if they knew they had vehicles on the
16 street that did not have a camera in there, they
17 wouldn't have those vehicles on the street for two
18 years. But these were the Gang Unit that patrol.
19 Patrol pulls people over. They don't walk. They
20 don't ride bicycles, correct?
21 A. You kind of made a rambling statement and then
22 asked me "Correct." What are you asking me to
23 address, sir?
24 Q. That the patrol officers pull people over -- do
25 they pull people over?

36
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. On a random and routine basis?
3 A. On a daily basis. I am a detective. I wear
4 plain clothes. I have not been in uniform for
5 four-and-a-half years. But I can tell from you my
6 experience, because I never worked in the Gang Unit,
7 which both officers you have already cross-examined
8 have, at that point daily they were in a uniform,
9 they were in a squad car. All I can tell you, from
10 my personal experience, which is dated back
11 four-and-a-half years ago, yes, during my time of
12 patrol I would do traffic stops. But you have to
13 have a reason for contact, a moving violation, a
14 warrant hit, some reason for contact, probable cause
15 to pull over that vehicle, sir.
16 Q. Pretty much, though -- sir, pretty much --
17 well, this is not what I'm basing my case off of,
18 sir. But I would just like to get it noted that
19 y'all -- you are saying that you seen traffic
20 violations and you -- that is why you called in to
21 get the car pulled over. But it just so happened,
22 sir, is this true or not, that the police car was
23 really behind -- got behind the Impala before you
24 was even able to get behind the Impala, because you
25 were stuck at the red light?

37
1 A. Sir, we had eyes on you the whole time of this
2 encounter. Sometimes we were closer to you, at
3 times we were away, but we had visual contact of
4 you.
5 Q. How long was this surveillance -- once I got
6 into the car -- you're saying, "at times." Was this
7 surveillance longer than ten minutes?
8 A. Are you asking me -- you're not being very
9 clear.
10 Q. I'm sorry.
11 A. What are you asking me?
12 Q. When you seen the car drive by you when you
13 were sitting there, how long after that until the
14 car got pulled over?
15 A. The car, from start to finish?
16 Q. When you seen the car drive by you, how long
17 until it got pulled over?
18 THE COURT: What car?
19 Q. (By Mr. Rose) The Impala.
20 A. The car you were found in, correct?
21 Q. Yes, sir.
22 A. I would say 20 to 25 minutes. It could have
23 been less than that, but it did not exceed that
24 time.
25 Q. It didn't exceed longer than two minutes, sir.

38
1 And if we had a diagram and a map to show the ladies
2 and gentlemen of the jury, from the point where you
3 said you seen me at or you seen the car I was in
4 drive by, to the point where it got pulled over, I
5 can guarantee you it's not -- in 20 minutes you
6 could run that far and run back. It's only maybe
7 one-and-a-half miles, sir.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, this is not a
9 question. This is an argument. Please ask a
10 question.
11 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Sir, are you trying to cover for
12 anybody today, sir?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Are you trying to cover for yourself?
15 A. No.
16 MR. ROSE: I have no further questions,
17 Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Redirect?
19 MR. MEITL: No further questions, Judge.
20 THE COURT: Detective, I'm going to excuse
21 you. I remind you, as I have the other witnesses,
22 not to talk about the case until it's over.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: You may step down.
25 Call your next witness, please.

39
1 MR. KULL: We call Candace Renea
2 Eckelkamp.
3 THE COURT: If you will come on up here to
4 be sworn in.
5 (Witness sworn.)
6 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Have a seat and
7 state and spell your name for the court reporter.
8 THE WITNESS: My name is Renea Eckelkamp.
9 THE COURT: I can tell that you need to
10 sit up closer to the microphone. Okay. Perfect.
11 THE WITNESS: My name is Renea Eckelkamp.
12 That is R-E-N-E-A.
13 My last name is E-C-K-E-L-K-A-M-P.
14 MR. KULL: May I proceed?
15 THE COURT: You may.
16 RENEA ECKELKAMP,
19 BY MR. KULL:
20 Q. How are you employed, ma'am?
21 A. I'm a forensic scientist for the Texas
22 Department of Public Safety.
23 Q. Can we call it DPS for short?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. How long have you worked for DPS?

40
1 A. Almost two years.
2 Q. Describe for us your educational background for
3 the position you hold.
4 A. I have a Bachelor of Science degree with a
5 major in Chemistry from the University of North
6 Carolina at Wilmington.
7 Q. Did you undergo training before becoming a
8 chemist for DPS?
9 A. Yes, I was trained at DPS in controlled
10 substances.
11 Q. Describe some of the things you do on a daily
12 basis for DPS.
13 A. I analyze evidence. I receive evidence. When
14 evidence technicians are not available, I generate
15 reports, testify. I also do disposition of
16 evidence.
17 Q. How do you analyze an unknown substance and
18 determine its true nature?
19 A. We look at the substance, and then we do a
20 series of presumptive tests, and then we do a
21 confirmatory test.
22 Q. And these are all tests that are normally -- or
23 accepted in the scientific community?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And is your lab certified to conduct these

41
1 tests?
2 A. It is.
3 Q. Do you maintain your annual certification to
4 conduct these tests?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And describe for us how a substance comes in
7 and what you do with it once it's there?
8 A. Once an officer brings it into the lab, it is
9 given a unique laboratory case number. It is then
10 put into the vault. We receive a folder from our
11 manager, and then we go and get the evidence and
12 then we start the series of testing.
13 Q. Okay. Let me ask you if you have reviewed some
14 evidence particular to this case here.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Okay. And can you describe for the Court when
17 it was that you -- your laboratory received the
18 substances you tested for this case?
19 A. It was received into the laboratory on
20 July 6th of this year.
21 Q. Okay. And what type of condition was it in?
22 A. It was a properly sealed envelope.
23 Q. Okay. And when you say "properly sealed
24 envelope," what do you mean?
25 A. That there are no openings. It is taped, and

42
1 it has dates and initials on it.
2 Q. Okay. And when you actually received the
3 evidence, that was the condition it was in.
4 A. It was.
5 Q. It had not been -- at least to your knowledge,
6 had not been opened, altered or anything of that
7 nature.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. If that had been the case, what would you have
10 done, Ms. Eckelkamp?
11 A. We would have returned it back to the officer
12 and had him properly sealed it.
13 Q. Because of the nature of its sealing, you were
14 able to go forward with your testing in this
15 particular case?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now, when a substance comes into your
18 laboratory, is it given a unique number?
19 A. It is.
20 Q. Why do you do that?
21 A. Each case has a specific number so we do not
22 get it confused with other cases.
23 Q. Who was the evidence submitted by in this case?
24 A. The evidence was submitted by Eric Wilson.
25 Q. What unique laboratory number was it?

43
1 A. It was given GAR150707297.
2 Q. Are there any other substances within the
3 Department of Public Safety at the Garland
4 laboratory that would have that number other than
5 what you analyzed?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Describe for us what you did when you first
8 received that packet of what ended up being drugs?
9 A. Okay. I -- when I opened it up, I saw two
10 four-by-nine white envelopes. And then once I
11 opened those envelopes, I saw a Ziploc bag with a
12 white crystalline substance.
13 MR. ROSE: Objection, Your Honor. Is she
14 reading this? Is she reading this?
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry. Maybe I'm wrong for
17 objecting right now, but I thought she's -- why is
18 she reading this and where did it come from?
19 THE COURT: I gotcha.
20 What's the exhibit number you are looking
21 at or is there an exhibit number?
22 THE WITNESS: This is the case notes from
23 my folder.
24 THE COURT: Why don't you lay a predicate
25 in that regard so it's clear what she's doing, that

44
1 she's refreshing her recollection or a recorded
2 recollection, that kind of thing.
3 MR. KULL: Okay.
5 Q. (By Mr. Kull) With regard to analyzing a
6 substance, do you take notes regarding what you're
7 doing and why you are doing it?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Why do you do that?
10 A. So we know what's happened during the case.
11 Q. Okay. Because you may testify about a case two
12 years later or a year later and you need to have
13 documentation to support your memory?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did you do that in this particular case?
16 A. I did.
17 Q. And are those kept by you in the regular course
18 of your business?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And why do you keep those records?
21 A. So we have records down the road.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. So we can refer back.
24 Q. Okay. And these are kept in the same case file
25 with that unique laboratory number.

45
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you use those to keep track of what you are
3 doing.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And why you are doing it.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And the results that are made.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is that formally -- once you get your notes and
10 do your laboratory testing, do you provide a --
11 MR. ROSE: Objection, Your Honor, if I
12 may. I thought Mr. Meitl was the one prosecuting
13 this case, not Mr. Kull. So I got two guys
14 prosecuting the case?
15 THE COURT: Overruled. You got two guys
16 prosecuting this case. Go ahead.
17 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Did you formulate a laboratory
18 report regarding your findings in this particular
19 case?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. If you will open that white binder in front of
22 you and look at Government's Exhibit 28, please.
23 A. (Witness complied.)
24 Q. I'm going to ask you if you recognize that
25 report.

46
1 A. I do.
2 Q. Okay. And what is Government's Exhibit 28?
3 A. It is a copy of my laboratory report.
4 Q. Okay. And this is a lab report detailing what?
5 A. The evidence that was submitted.
6 Q. Okay. With the same unique case number that
7 was submitted by Agent Wilson?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. And does it appear to be a true and
10 correct copy of your report that contained your
11 findings with regard to the substances found in this
12 particular case?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay.
15 MR. KULL: Judge, at this time we move to
16 admit Government's Exhibit 28.
17 THE COURT: Mr. Rose?
18 MR. ROSE: I'm going to object to that,
19 ma'am. I'm just going to object because I don't
20 think it's right to be able to -- I'm going to
21 object just for the record to everything that they
22 are submitting.
23 THE COURT: Just so that we are clear, you
24 object to this one, and it's Government's Exhibit
25 28.

47
1 Mr. Kull, just so I'm clear, is this a
2 business record, a recorded recollection? I'm not
3 100 percent sure.
4 MR. KULL: It can be a business record,
5 Your Honor. It will be a business record.
6 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
7 Government's Exhibit 28 is admitted.
8 Can I take a look at it. I know I have a
9 copy of it, but I think it would be faster to see
10 what you've got. Thank you.
11 MR. KULL: Your Honor, she handed you her
12 case notes. I moved to admit Government's Exhibit
13 28, which is in the trial binder.
14 THE COURT: Yes. Is it the same thing as
15 what I've got here?
16 MR. KULL: I don't think it is. I don't
17 know. Ms. Eckelkamp, is the same thing you handed
18 the judge the same that's contained in --
19 THE COURT: Let's just make sure. I will
20 go to 28 in the binder.
21 MR. ROSE: I would like to object. When
22 she handed you that, Mr. Meitl said she handed her
23 something, blah-blah-blah. What you asked for is
24 what she gave you.
25 THE COURT: Okay. This is what she gave

48
1 me. Government's Exhibit 28. It looks identical to
2 what she just handed me. It is the lab report
3 showing the analysis, two pages. So I've got two
4 pages that I have. And so two pages -- let's just
5 make clear what those two pages are before the jury
6 gets it of Government's Exhibit 28 are admitted as a
7 business record.
8 Go ahead.
9 MR. KULL: Thank you, Your Honor.
10 Q. (By Mr. Kull) So did you perform a test on the
11 substances submitted by Eric Wilson?
12 A. I did.
13 Q. Describe the testing -- first of all, you
14 indicated you received two white envelopes within
15 the other sealed envelope?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Were the white envelopes sealed as well?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Upon visual inspection of those two envelopes,
20 what did you find?
21 A. In Item 01-01 it was a white crystalline
22 substance in a Ziploc bag. And in Item 01-02, it
23 was plant substance in a Ziploc bag.
24 Q. Now, you used some terms there. You said
25 "01-01." Describe for the jurors what that means.

49
1 A. That's an item number we generate that
2 corresponds to the agency case number item.
3 Q. So, for example, if there had been a hundred
4 white envelopes inside the Manila envelope you
5 received, it would have been 01-01, 01-02, all the
6 way to a hundred?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. That's the way you keep track of how many
9 substances were submitted for the analysis?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now, with regard to 01-01, you identified it as
12 a white crystalline substance in a Ziploc bag; is
13 that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What type of testing did you do on that
16 substance?
17 A. I weighed the substance. And then I did two
18 presumptive test, which were a Marquis color test
19 and an SNP, which is a sodium nitroprusside.
20 Q. Can you describe how you performed those two
21 tests for the jurors the best you can?
22 A. You place a small amount of substance in a spot
23 well, and then you drop a little bit of the reagent
24 on the substance and it turns a different color.
25 Q. What are you looking for in that test?

50
1 A. For the Marquis test, you look for a
2 different -- there's different colors. There's
3 orange, black, purple and red. And in this case, it
4 turned an orange color.
5 Q. What does that indicate to you?
6 A. That it is an amphetamine-like substance.
7 Q. What about the second test?
8 A. It was sodium nitroprusside. It turns blue if
9 it's a secondary amine, which methamphetamine is.
10 Q. And what did the substance turn in this
11 particular case?
12 A. What was that?
13 Q. What color did -- the second test, what did it
14 indicate?
15 A. It turned blue.
16 Q. So what do you do to confirm the testing for
17 those two tests, is there a third test involved?
18 A. We do a confirmatory test, where we inject it
19 onto a gas chromatography mass spectrometry. And
20 then we -- once that generates a graph and a report,
21 we match it to a known reference of methamphetamine,
22 and then we confirm it is.
23 Q. What were the results of that third test?
24 A. It was positive for methamphetamine.
25 Q. Okay. Now, is methamphetamine a controlled

51
1 substance?
2 A. It is.
3 Q. Illegal to possess in all quantities by the
4 general public?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. A Schedule II controlled substance under
7 the federal guidelines?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Now, as part of your testing procedure, is some
10 of the substance consumed?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. In other words, to test it, you have to use
13 some of it for those three tests you are talking
14 about.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So after you -- what was the net weight of the
17 actual methamphetamine that was tested?
18 A. It weighed 0.56 grams.
19 Q. Now, there's also a second substance. That was
20 0.10. You indicated there was a 01.2. Is that
21 correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what was that?
24 A. It was marijuana.
25 Q. Okay. And the type of testing you did there

52
1 was the same as you did with the methamphetamine?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Except for results, it would obviously have
4 been different?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, the marijuana, how much was that?
7 A. It weighed 1.36 grams.
8 Q. Now, did you conduct any further analysis with
9 regard to 01 -- I'm sorry, I keep saying this
10 wrong -- 01-01, the white crystalline substance that
11 you identified as methamphetamine?
12 A. I did not perform any other analysis.
13 Q. After you generated the results of your
14 testing, is that what you incorporated in
15 Government's Exhibit 28?
16 A. Yes.
17 MR. KULL: That's all I have, Judge, thank
18 you.
19 THE COURT: Cross-examination, Mr. Rose?
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. ROSE:
23 Q. Eckelkamp, am I pronouncing that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. I'm not disputing the fact that you obviously

53
1 know how to do your job, and you obviously know how
2 to test substances. This substance -- let me get
3 back to the envelope. You said when you get the
4 substance it's in a sealed envelope with initials
5 and everything. And if it's not like that, you send
6 it back and have it -- make sure it's correct when
7 it comes back to you.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did it come to you the first time in a fashion
10 like that?
11 A. It was sealed.
12 Q. It was correct the first time you got it?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. If it wasn't correct and you was to send it
15 back, ma'am, is there any way that the officer could
16 just correct it himself and then bring it back
17 correctly?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. So -- okay. Now, did you test the
20 methamphetamine that was found in the driver's
21 pocket?
22 A. I just test the methamphetamine that was
23 submitted to the lab.
24 Q. Okay. So it could have been -- that could have
25 been the methamphetamine that was found in the

54
1 driver's pocket?
2 A. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm
3 sorry.
4 Q. Okay. That's correct, ma'am.
5 You said you tested this methamphetamine on
6 July 6th, 2015; is that correct?
7 A. That was when it was submitted.
8 Q. When was this -- does it show on there when the
9 methamphetamine was seized, the date?
10 A. The date on the submission form of the date of
11 the offense was July 29th, 2014.
12 Q. A little over 11 months, correct? Is that
13 correct?
14 A. I believe so, yes.
15 Q. So does methamphetamine, from your experience
16 as a chemist, does it stay methamphetamine over a
17 period of time, or does that substance change back
18 into amphetamine?
19 A. It stays methamphetamine.
20 Q. Ten years from now it will be methamphetamine?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. Learn something new every day.
23 The substance that you tested was .6. Since
24 you're a chemist and you deal with weights, would
25 you say from your expert opinion that a sugar pack

55
1 of Equal, Sweet'N Low, whatever, those little
2 packets that we put in our coffee, is that roughly
3 one gram?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Thank you. So the substance you tested was
6 roughly half of that; is that correct?
7 A. Yes, roughly.
8 Q. .56 is -- .50 would be exactly half. .56 . . .
9 okay. And you -- like you said, that substance
10 could have been put in that evidence bag at any time
11 within the past year, correct? Because you don't
12 know when it was put in there.
13 A. I do not know when it was put in there.
14 Q. You just know the substance you tested was
15 methamphetamine.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. Do you do fingerprints, too?
18 A. The lab does, but I do not.
19 Q. Was the bag that it was in, was it
20 fingerprinted?
21 A. No.
22 MR. ROSE: That's all I have for you,
23 ma'am.
25 MR. KULL: One quick question.

56
1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. KULL:
3 Q. Just so we're all clear in the courtroom, would
4 you look at Government's Exhibit 72, which is
5 contained within that baggie up there, please?
7 Q. Do you recognize 72?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What is that?
10 A. This is the envelope that was submitted to the
11 lab.
12 Q. And how do you recognize it as such?
13 A. By the unique laboratory case number and by
14 date and initials.
15 Q. And show the jury, when you received that
16 envelope, it was in that same condition except it
17 didn't have the red evidence sticker across the
18 bottom, correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Describe for the jurors why it has that now.
21 A. When I open it, I properly seal it back up. So
22 I date and initial it.
23 Q. So in other words, to get to the drugs to test
24 it, you have to open a sealed container --
25 A. Yes.

57
1 Q. -- which is what you did in this case?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And then you sealed it back up and put evidence
4 tape across the bottom.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you initialed it for what reason?
7 A. So we know that we opened it.
8 Q. Has it been opened or altered in any way since
9 you sealed it back up and then submitted it back to
10 the case agent?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. Now, with regard to submission of the
13 drugs, are you in charge of when submission of the
14 drugs are submitted to your lab?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Okay. How many -- how busy is the Garland DPS
17 drug lab?
18 A. It's pretty busy.
19 Q. When you say "pretty busy," you stay busy from
20 when you get to work all the way to the end of the
21 day analyzing drugs?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is it the normal practice of agents to submit
24 drugs not to overburden the DPS lab for drugs when
25 you know a case is going to trial?

58
1 A. Can you rephrase that?
2 Q. Sure. Is every single substance that gets
3 submitted to your lab submitted on the same day it's
4 seized, or do agents normally wait to submit those
5 seizures when they know the case is going to trial?
6 A. I don't know when they submit it, what they are
7 thinking.
8 MR. KULL: Okay. Fair enough.
9 That's all I have, Judge.
11 MR. ROSE: I would like to direct on that.
14 BY MR. ROSE:
15 Q. So that envelope, those are your initials,
16 correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. And what your initials and what you're
19 testifying is, is that substance that you tested
20 that's in that -- there's -- the substance that you
21 tested in that envelope came to you, did you -- can
22 you -- I guess I'm trying to put this without --
23 without raising an argument. Can you -- can you say
24 for certain that the drugs you tested were the drugs
25 that was found in that -- in that traffic stop?

59
1 A. I just test what is submitted to the lab.
2 Q. And it was submitted a little over 11 months
3 later to the lab.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And the arrest -- the officer -- the charging
6 officer brought that in to you. So what I'm getting
7 at, ma'am, could the officer have placed drugs in
8 that -- in that envelope that came out of the
9 driver's pocket?
10 A. I do not know.
11 Q. You don't know if he could have or not?
12 A. I don't know what the officer did.
13 Q. Could the officer have placed drugs in that
14 envelope?
15 MR. KULL: Judge, I'm going to object as
16 speculation. It's been covered. She's a witness to
17 the testing of the drugs and not when it was seized
18 or anything of that matter.
19 THE COURT: My question, Mr. Rose, is, in
20 any trial you can float a theory, but you have to
21 have some basis for floating a theory, especially
22 one so accusatory as that.
23 MR. ROSE: Ma'am --
24 THE COURT: I will let you ask one more
25 question along those lines, and then we will move

60
1 on. One more question on that theory of yours.
3 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Within the past year, from
4 July 29th to then, had you tested the drugs that
5 were found in the driver's pocket?
6 A. I tested what was submitted in the lab.
7 Q. Does your records reflect that those -- that
8 that is the only drugs that were found that day?
9 A. The drugs on the submission form says it was
10 seized from above suspect.
11 MR. ROSE: All right. I have no further
12 questions, Your Honor.
13 RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. KULL:
15 Q. Who is the above suspect?
16 A. The suspect on the submission form is Casey
17 Mark Rose.
18 MR. KULL: That's all I have, Judge.
19 Thank you.
20 THE COURT: Okay. I think we have covered
21 this topic. I will go ahead and release you.
22 Remember not to talk about the facts with anyone
23 until the case is over.
24 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
25 THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, we will

61
1 go until around 10:15 or 10:30. Again, as I said,
2 especially in the morning if anybody has a reason to
3 take a break, just give me a little hand raise and I
4 won't say anything and I will just give you a break.
5 Next witness, please.
6 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. The
7 government calls Detective Greg Weatherford.
8 THE COURT: Detective, if you will come on
9 up here to be sworn in.
10 (Witness sworn.)
11 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Have a seat,
12 please, and state and spell your name for the court
13 reporter.
14 THE WITNESS: Greg Weatherford,
15 W-E-A-T-H-E-R-F-O-R-D.
16 MR. MEITL: Thank you.
17 GREG WEATHERFORD,
20 BY MR. MEITL:
21 Q. Detective, you just told us who you are.
22 Where do you work?
23 A. I work for the Dallas Police Department.
24 Q. Do you work in a particular group or unit?
25 A. The Intelligence Unit.

62
1 Q. What do you do in the Intelligence Unit?
2 A. We investigate various activities, drug
3 activities, murder for hires, stuff like that.
4 Q. And as part of your duties, do you assist or
5 actually interview suspects, targets, witnesses,
6 things like that?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. How often do you interview individuals?
9 A. I'm sorry, how often?
10 Q. How often?
11 A. Once a week, twice a week, sometimes once a
12 month. It just depends; it varies.
13 Q. How long have you been a law enforcement
14 officer?
15 A. Twenty-five years.
16 Q. How long have you been in the Intelligence
17 Unit?
18 A. Five-and-a-half years.
19 Q. Okay. Before that, what unit were you in?
20 A. I was in the Vice Unit.
21 Q. What is the Vice Unit?
22 A. We do alcohol, prostitution and gambling.
23 Q. So over the course of your 25 years in law
24 enforcement, have you conducted -- approximately how
25 many interviews have you conducted?

63
1 A. Hundreds.
2 Q. Were you working on July 29, 2014?
3 A. I was.
4 Q. On that day, did you come into contact or
5 observe an individual by the name of Casey Rose?
6 A. I did.
7 Q. Do you see Mr. Rose in the courtroom today?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. Can you identify him and point out where he's
10 sitting and what he's wearing?
11 A. Sitting to my left with a black jacket and
12 white shirt.
13 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, may the record
14 reflect that the defendant has identified the
15 defendant, Casey Rose?
16 THE COURT: So reflect.
17 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Tell us how you came into
18 contact with Mr. Rose that day.
19 A. Surveillance was conducted on Mr. Rose, and
20 subsequently a traffic stop was performed.
21 Q. And then later on did you actually see Mr. Rose
22 at DPD headquarters?
23 A. Yes, he was in the interview room.
24 Q. Where were you, if he was in the interview
25 room?

64
1 A. I was in another room, monitoring the interview
2 from the monitoring room.
3 Q. Is that like what we see on TV, where there is
4 a window where the police can see into a room and
5 see the individual?
6 A. Not like that, but it's in a separate room with
7 video monitors where the video is fed into the room
8 that I'm sitting where I can watch it and hear it.
9 Q. All right. And did you see Mr. Rose on that
10 video that day?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. Was he interviewed by another agent?
13 A. Yes. He was interviewed by Agent Wilson.
14 Q. And you know Agent Wilson from working with him
15 in the past?
16 A. I do.
17 Q. And then you said you watched the interview.
18 Was there an interview conducted for a period of
19 time?
20 A. Yeah, I watched the interview. It was
21 approximately an hour, hour-and-a-half, a little
22 over an hour-and-a-half.
23 Q. Again, where was this interview?
24 A. DPD headquarters.
25 Q. And when you watched it, could you also hear

65
1 audio? Could you actually hear what the two
2 individuals were saying back and forth?
3 A. I can.
4 Q. Did you watch the entire interview, meaning did
5 you watch it from the beginning, when Special Agent
6 Wilson first started asking questions, to the very
7 end, when he stopped asking questions?
8 A. I did.
9 Q. Do you know if the video was recorded in any
10 way?
11 A. It was. It was recorded on DVD.
12 Q. By DVD, do you mean it was recorded both
13 visually and audio?
15 Q. How do you know it was recorded both video and
16 audio?
17 A. I recorded it.
18 Q. Have you watched the entire video of that
19 interview since that date?
20 A. I have.
21 Q. Can you please look at Government's Exhibit 23
22 in that binder?
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. Do you see Government's Exhibit 23?
25 A. Yes.

66
1 Q. What is that?
2 A. It's a DVD.
3 Q. And what does -- is the DVD entitled anything?
4 A. U.S. versus Casey Rose.
5 Q. And is this the DVD that you have watched since
6 the time of that interview?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So does this DVD or what's contained on that
9 DVD contain the full audio and video recording of
10 the interview with Casey Rose on July 29th, 2014?
11 A. Yes.
12 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, the government
13 moves to admit Government's Exhibit 23 into
14 evidence.
16 MR. ROSE: I object.
17 THE COURT: Overruled. Government's
18 Exhibit 23 is admitted.
19 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Now, Detective Weatherford,
20 before we play that for the jury, are you aware
21 whether a transcript of the video, of the interview
22 has been made?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you make that transcript?
25 A. I did not.

67
1 Q. Have you reviewed that transcript?
2 A. I have.
3 Q. Have you compared what's written in that
4 transcript with what's on the video and what you can
5 hear?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Does it fairly and accurately reflect what took
8 place that day when you sat and actually watched the
9 video?
10 A. It does.
11 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, that's
12 Government's Exhibit 24. I understand the Court
13 does not want to admit that fully as an exhibit.
14 But what I would like to do, if it's okay with the
15 Court, is to provide copies of that transcript to
16 the jury so that as we watch the video they can
17 follow along.
18 THE COURT: Any objection to the
19 transcripts?
20 MR. ROSE: It was my idea, ma'am. No,
21 ma'am.
22 THE COURT: I recall we have talked about
23 this.
24 Ladies and Gentlemen, there's an issue I
25 have to address briefly with you about the

68
1 transcripts. It's actually so settled that it's
2 actually in our formal instructions, which is to
3 make sure that you understand -- because you might
4 not otherwise, I wouldn't -- that the -- what's in
5 the transcripts is not the evidence, it's what's on
6 the tape. The transcripts are put together for your
7 aid to help you listen to the transcripts -- to
8 listen to the tapes, but they are, themselves, not
9 evidence. So I'm admitting the transcripts right
10 now for the limited and secondary purpose of aiding
11 you in following the content of the conversation
12 that you are about to listen to as you listen to the
13 tape recording and also to help you in identifying
14 the speakers.
15 You are instructed that whether the
16 transcript correctly or incorrectly reflects the
17 content of the conversation or the identity of the
18 speakers is entirely for you to determine based upon
19 your own evaluation of the testimony you have heard
20 concerning the preparation of the transcript and
21 from your own examination of the transcript in
22 relation to your hearing of the tape-recording, the
23 tape-recording, itself, being the primary evidence
24 of its own contents. So if you should determine
25 that the transcript is in any respect incorrect or

69
1 unreliable, you should disregard it to that extent.
2 It is what you hear on the tapes that is the
3 evidence. And since we're getting ready to hear it,
4 how long is this?
5 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, it's about an
6 hour-and-a-half.
7 THE COURT: We are going to go ahead and
8 take a 15-minute break. All right? And then we
9 will get started and hear that. If you need a
10 blanket or a sweater, because it gets cold in here,
11 just let us know, we've got those, too.
12 You may step down.
13 (Jury leaves courtroom)
14 THE COURT: Something real quick, if you
15 will be seated for a second. The issue of the
16 admissibility of lab reports always causes my radar
17 to go up and sometimes unnecessarily so. But
18 you-all are aware of the cases that talk about the
19 lab reports and the hearsay and the testimony and
20 the evidence and whatnot.
21 As I understand it, this was offered as a
22 business record; understandably, Mr. Kull laid a
23 predicate. And the distinction here, as I see it,
24 is that this witness who testified, this young lady,
25 was actually the one that conducted the test as

70
1 opposed to those concerns that come up in other
2 cases where they are trying to get the results in by
3 someone who never did the test. I just don't want a
4 hurdle or problem down the road.
5 (Discussion off the record between
6 Mr. Kull and Mr. Meitl.)
7 MR. KULL: Your analysis, I believe, is
8 correct, Your Honor. I'm just trying to recall. Is
9 it the Almendarez Mendez case?
10 THE COURT: Yes. And I know that's been
11 qualified somewhat. It all has to do with the idea
12 of when something is testimonial and when they are
13 offering these items without a chance to
14 cross-examine that person that actually conducted
15 the test. This young lady actually conducted the
16 test, so I think we are fine. I just wanted to make
17 sure I wasn't missing anything. I want to do a
18 little bit more research. I think she's absolutely
19 on solid ground to testify about her test results.
20 If there is anything else, any other problems, I can
21 always consider the report, but I think we are fine.
22 I just wanted to make sure we covered that before I
23 forgot about it.
24 MR. KULL: Yes, Your Honor. Just so the
25 record is clear, the jury has not seen Government's

71
1 Exhibit 28. I will do some research in the downtime
2 and verify what I believe to be correct. If we need
3 to withdraw Government's Exhibit 28 without the jury
4 seeing it, we will do so at that time.
5 THE COURT: I think that's fine. Thank
6 you.
7 We are going to get ready for the tape
8 now, right?
10 MR. ROSE: Your Honor, I had a question.
11 Once again we talked and we said we was going to do
12 this from the beginning to the end like a book for
13 the jury. Once again, we are jumping ahead of the
14 chronological order of events.
15 Now, I feel it would be to my benefit --
16 very detrimental to my benefit if I have to
17 cross-examine the video directly after that. I
18 would like, if it's okay with you -- and I talked
19 with the prosecutor, Mr. Kull, here, what if we
20 watched the video and then we proceed on with more
21 evidence, can I refer back to the video --
22 THE COURT: Yes. Yes. But let's make
23 sure that we are clear that we know what number it
24 is that Mr. Kull was referring to that we want you
25 to note so we don't go searching back for hours to

72
1 find it. Do you know -- do you know where to look?
2 And Mr. Kull, if you can help him out, as soon as it
3 starts if you can show him what to look for.
4 MR. MEITL: Let me play a portion.
5 THE COURT: Let's do that.
6 MR. KULL: For record purposes, I did, at
7 the Court's request, talk to Mr. Rose in the
8 presence of the Marshals and explain to him that we
9 needed to watch the upper left-hand corner of the
10 video that will have the time stamp. There it is
11 right there.
12 THE COURT: Show me.
13 MR. KULL: It's right here. And in his
14 copy of the transcript, he has gone through and
15 marked -- and I haven't looked at it -- he has
16 marked where he thinks something is important. I
17 asked him if in the transcript he could write down
18 the time that corresponds with the transcript
19 because we can't search via the transcript. We can
20 search via time, and if he did that we can go
21 exactly where he needs us to go.
22 THE COURT: You all clear on that?
23 MR. ROSE: Yes. Yes, ma'am, but it might
24 be this evening before I do that. Is that okay?
25 THE COURT: I'm going to let you pick how

73
1 you want to present your case as long as you are not
2 doing something that's a waste of time or too long
3 like anyone else. But yes, I'm fine with that.
4 Do I have a copy of the transcript up
5 here?
6 MR. MEITL: You do, Your Honor. It's not
7 in the binder, it's separate.
8 THE COURT: I have it. Yes, I have it.
9 Let's bring the jury out.
10 (Jury enters courtroom)
11 THE COURT: All right. Next witness is
12 yours, Mr. Meitl?
13 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, Detective
14 Weatherford is going to stay on the stand for the
15 playing of the video. Over the break we have handed
16 out copies of the transcripts to the jurors. So at
17 this time, Your Honor, I would like to play
18 Exhibit 23 into the record. And this, just so it's
19 clear for the Court, because of the size of the
20 video, it's going to be in two files. The first
21 file will be about an hour long, and then we will
22 open the second file, which is about a half an hour
23 long. I don't intend to stop the video and ask
24 questions. I intend to let it play continuously,
25 and after that we will see if we have further

74
1 questions for Detective Weatherford.
2 THE COURT: This is 23?
3 MR. MEITL: Correct.
4 THE COURT: Do we have 24?
5 MR. MEITL: The transcript was marked as
6 24.
7 THE COURT: Gotcha. We are all set. All
8 right.
9 MR. MEITL: At this time I would ask
10 Ms. Slimak to play the video. And just for the
11 jury's edification, there will be a couple of
12 minutes before any talking begins. But just for
13 purposes of keeping completeness, we are going to
14 play the entire video.
15 THE COURT: And we're going to lower the
16 lights a little bit.
17 (Videotape played from 10:08 to 11:08.)
18 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, that's the end of
19 the first part of the tape, and we will play the
20 second part.
21 THE COURT: Anybody need a break? Okay.
22 (Videotape played from 11:08 to 11:22.)
23 THE COURT: Mr. Meitl, I need to take a
24 short break. Can you turn it off for a minute?
25 Ladies and Gentlemen, I remind you -- we

75
1 will take a short restroom break, and then we will
2 finish this out and take a lunch break for an hour
3 and a half, because I need to talk to the lawyers
4 and Mr. Rose. Please remember not to talk about the
5 case.
6 (Jury leaves courtroom.)
7 THE COURT: Go ahead and be seated for a
8 second.
9 Detective, I think you can step down for a
10 minute. How much longer do we have?
11 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, I believe there's
12 a break here now or a pause of silence. We could
13 skip ahead, but I don't want Mr. Rose later claiming
14 we didn't play the full tape. And I believe there's
15 only about -- of text in the transcript, there's
16 only about 16 pages left or so.
17 THE COURT: Okay. The murder, the elderly
18 couple, is that what we were talking about
19 yesterday?
21 THE COURT: Okay. Is that out of there or
22 is that -- what we talked about yesterday, is that
23 still in there?
24 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, when you are
25 referring to yesterday, you mean the violent -- or

76
1 the robberies that we claim he's involved in?
2 THE COURT: Something along those lines.
3 I can't specifically --
4 MR. MEITL: No, that's already been
5 discussed when he was talking about Brandon Crow and
6 robbing him.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, you heard all of
8 that --
9 MR. ROSE: I don't understand.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Let me finish. I just
11 want to see where we are with you in terms of any
12 objections, any points you want to make, and then we
13 will take a short break.
14 Mr. Rose?
15 MR. ROSE: Like I said, after we finish
16 this video up, I would like for them to go ahead and
17 call the rest of their witnesses. I am taking down
18 notes and times of this that I would like to go back
19 and play back.
20 THE COURT: Just so you know, we are not
21 playing the whole thing again. We will pick and
22 choose where you think it's relevant --
23 MR. ROSE: I have the time written down.
24 THE COURT: We are not going to play an
25 hour-and-a-half of video back over again unless you

77
1 give me some good reason, and you haven't so far. I
2 will take you where you want to go on this video.
3 But right now you've got some points, you've made
4 some notes on where you think it's relevant? Okay.
5 And you have those times written down?
7 THE COURT: What we are going to do is
8 break for lunch and have you-all back a few minutes
9 early. We will probably break a little bit longer
10 than normal and get you-all back here. I want to
11 give the Marshals a chance, understanding you've got
12 some hurdles.
13 We are going to finish up what we finish
14 up with this part of it, and then we're going to
15 break, probably an hour and a half, give you-all
16 plenty of time, and then come back and see what you
17 have to see about the points in the video. I want
18 to get some idea of what we are looking at. I know
19 that's not where you want to go next, we won't go
20 there next, we will let them finish their witnesses,
21 but I just want to get some gauge on what you are
22 talking about. Okay?
23 Mr. Rose?
24 MR. ROSE: I don't see why I would have to
25 disclose that at the moment. I think that would

78
1 give the prosecution time to set up a defense on
2 what I am going to be disclosing.
3 THE COURT: Well, we are in trial now --
4 MR. ROSE: I have to do what you say.
5 THE COURT: -- and so you have to, just
6 like they have to, you have to let me know so I can
7 make sure the trial moves along efficiently and
8 effectively. So you don't have to tell me right
9 now, but when we get back, you are going to have to
10 let me know where you want to go so I can decide if
11 I think it's appropriate, relevant and not a waste
12 of time.
13 MR. ROSE: Oh, it's not a waste of time,
14 ma'am.
15 THE COURT: I know, but that's your
16 opinion. We will see you back here in about five or
17 ten minutes.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Meitl, how much more did
20 you say we have?
21 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, there's 40 minutes
22 of running time. The next ten minutes is of
23 Mr. Rose basically sitting there. We would be happy
24 to move it forward.
25 THE COURT: Can we move it forward through

79
1 that with him sitting there?
2 MR. MEITL: I can, but to the extent that
3 Mr. Rose will raise objections that we are altering
4 the video or not showing --
5 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, do you want the jury
6 to see you sitting there for ten minutes?
7 MR. ROSE: My main argument is I was under
8 the influence of narcotics during this taping, and
9 they are saying I wasn't. Maybe we need to see if a
10 normal man does the things I'm doing while I'm
11 sitting there, like talking to myself, twitching,
12 whatever I am doing.
13 THE COURT: I'm hearing you say that you
14 want the jury to watch this. That's fine, I will
15 let them watch it. We're going to stop around 12:15
16 for an hour and a half. I have figured out that the
17 Marshals need a little bit more time to get him up
18 and down and food and all of that, and so let's go
19 until 12:15. Should we be done?
20 MR. MEITL: We should be done just about
21 right there, Judge.
22 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring them
23 back in.
25 THE COURT: We're going to go until 12:15.

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1 We should be finished with the tape by then, and
2 then we are going to take an hour and 15 minute
3 lunch.
4 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, at this point we
5 would continue to play Exhibit 23, starting at the
6 5:59:08 mark.
7 THE COURT: Part of the next part of this
8 is Mr. Rose sitting there waiting for Officer Wilson
9 to come back, in case you are wondering. Okay.
10 (Videotape continued playing from 11:42 to
11 12:08.)
12 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may, we will
13 pause it there. The rest of the time is another
14 nine minutes of Mr. Rose sitting there, and I don't
15 believe the jury needs to see that. That's how the
16 government would like to proceed.
18 MR. ROSE: Ma'am, the only reason I said
19 to watch the video in the pauses part is because
20 under law, if a man is high on drugs, anything he
21 says is not admissible and it can't be held against
22 him. And in the video you see me twitching and
23 talking to myself, you see me do things in those
24 pauses, picking on myself, everything that is what
25 people that are high on drugs do. And these

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1 officers are saying I wasn't on drugs. That's my
2 argument.
3 THE COURT: Okay. I understand what you
4 are saying. I don't agree with you about that
5 interpretation of the law. Nonetheless, my question
6 was very simply, do you want to have the jury watch
7 that? It's up to you.
8 MR. ROSE: I will not waste the jury's
9 time with that, ma'am.
10 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. I'm
11 sure they thank you.
12 Members of the jury, we're going to break
13 for lunch. You will leave your transcripts here.
14 Please remember not to talk about the case, but
15 we're going to break until 1:45. That will give me
16 a chance to talk a little bit with the lawyers about
17 what's next. We are moving along just fine. I
18 appreciate everyone's patience in some of the
19 scheduling today, taking breaks and getting through
20 this. Be back here at 1:45. Again, don't talk
21 about the case. See you again.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, I appreciate that
24 concession. If you feel that it's absolutely
25 necessary to later play that portion of the tape

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1 that we didn't just play, that's fine. I want to
2 make sure you know that.
3 Once again, I just want to make note for
4 the record that Mr. Anderson is here, and you
5 haven't opted to consult with him but you still have
6 that option at any time if you would like.
7 The idea that you have about if you're
8 high on drugs that it's not admissible, that's, as a
9 principle, not correct. There may be other things
10 affecting that that could render something like that
11 involuntary, but right now I haven't seen anything.
12 I just want to make sure you are not operating under
13 a false assumption. But I'm going to continue to
14 allow you to present your case in the fashion that
15 you would like with some exceptions, but certainly
16 the theory that you think is appropriate.
17 Mr. Meitl, where are we? Because,
18 Mr. Rose, you're not going to go into this video
19 right now, correct?
20 MR. ROSE: That's correct.
22 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, I have no further
23 questions for this witness.
24 THE COURT: I apologize. I forgot you
25 were sitting over there. You've been sitting there

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1 so long. Go ahead and step down and please remember
2 not to talk about the case until it's over.
3 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if Mr. Rose has no
4 further questions for him, maybe he could be
5 excused.
6 THE COURT: Do you agree to excuse him for
7 right now? You can always call him back.
8 MR. ROSE: Yeah, I would like to call him
9 back. There's just a couple of questions for him.
10 THE COURT: So you want him back after
11 lunch?
13 THE COURT: All right. You will be back
14 after lunch.
15 Okay. Mr. Meitl, what's next after that?
16 MR. MEITL: After that, Your Honor, we
17 would call Special Agent Wilson just to get in some
18 evidence for a limited purpose. I don't know if the
19 Court would be able to instruct Mr. Rose about that.
20 Agent Wilson will be our last witness, so the
21 defendant will have a full opportunity to
22 cross-examine him on anything relevant to the case.
23 But at least for this first round, we will just be
24 getting in some evidence, the phone, some search
25 warrants and things like that.

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1 THE COURT: Understood. I will probably
2 give Mr. Rose some leeway in that regard because he
3 has lots of things I think he wants to ask
4 Agent Wilson about. I will watch and make sure that
5 you curb your approach so that it's all admissible
6 and that you are not way off on tangents, but I will
7 allow you to exceed the scope of direct examination
8 to an extent. I want you to get your theory of the
9 case in.
10 Any questions?
11 MR. ROSE: Yes. Detective Jay Darst, they
12 were going to call him in, and they haven't called
13 him yet. They are jumping past him.
14 THE COURT: They may decide not to call
15 him.
16 Mr. Meitl?
17 MR. MEITL: We don't intend to call
18 Detective Darst anymore. It's not necessary.
19 MR. ROSE: Well, if they are not going to
20 call Detective Darst at all, that will be fine with
21 me, because I don't want to question Agent Wilson
22 and then they let Detective Darst come back and
23 clean up anything that wasn't said.
24 THE COURT: Right now, they are not going
25 to call him. But understand, to the extent you put

85
1 your case on, as in any criminal case, they have a
2 right, if it's proper, to put rebuttal evidence on,
3 which means there is a possibility that you may
4 raise something in your defense that they think
5 raises the right for them to call him. They may or
6 may not.
7 MR. ROSE: May I call him as a witness?
8 THE COURT: For what reason?
9 MR. ROSE: To question him and to have it
10 finalized that he was questioned.
11 THE COURT: Let me think about that.
12 Okay? Seems like it's kind of an off the top of
13 your head last thing.
14 MR. ROSE: No, no, I have questions
15 written down. I've been waiting for him this whole
16 time.
17 THE COURT: Right now, we've got this last
18 officer. What's his name?
19 MR. MEITL: Weatherford.
20 THE COURT: He's coming back, and then you
21 are going to call Wilson, and then you're going to
22 rest.
23 MR. MEITL: No, Your Honor. No, Your
24 Honor, we still have several more witnesses.
25 THE COURT: I thought you said you were

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1 finished. And I was surprised and pleased to think
2 of that, but that's not the case. All right. So
3 after that you've got what?
4 MR. MEITL: Probably four more witnesses,
5 Your Honor, four or five more witnesses.
6 THE COURT: So we have at least the rest
7 of the day for your case, if not part of tomorrow.
8 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. I think the
9 witnesses should move very quickly. Yes, it will at
10 least take a couple of hours.
11 THE COURT: And this officer that Mr. Rose
12 is referring to, his name is?
13 MR. MEITL: Jay Darst, D-A-R-S-T.
14 THE COURT: What is your position on him
15 calling Officer Darst?
16 MR. MEITL: Well, Your Honor, I was a
17 little confused by the defendant. At first he said
18 that he didn't want him here as long as I don't call
19 him. Detective Darst really has very limited --
20 MR. ROSE: I object to that. I have never
21 told him that.
22 THE COURT: That's what you said. Don't
23 interrupt. Let him finish.
24 MR. MEITL: Detective Darst has limited
25 knowledge. He was only being called for chain of

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1 custody purposes if there was an issue. The
2 evidence has already been admitted. I don't believe
3 he has any personal knowledge that he could share
4 that's not cumulative to what another witness would
5 say. He did not interview Mr. Rose directly. He
6 did not interact with him directly. He did not
7 obtain the evidence. So he is really just a support
8 personnel that day of the arrest. He was certainly
9 there, but it would be cumulative.
10 THE COURT: Why do you want him?
11 MR. ROSE: Because he was in the car with
12 Detective Brian Emerson. Brian Emerson, apparently
13 they called him and he had a lot to say, and you
14 heard me question Mr. Emerson about what happened.
15 Mr. Emerson, I'm telling you, is clearly
16 lying, ma'am. I don't like to say that about our
17 law enforcement officers. I wouldn't say that
18 unless it's true. He was clearly lying. Jay Darst
19 is his partner. He was in the car with him. I
20 would like Jay Darst just to be questioned. He's
21 part of the case. He's part of the reason why the
22 car got pulled over. We don't know if he was
23 driving or Emerson was driving, who was on the
24 radio, who was observing these traffic violations.
25 And then can he say -- this is my illegal search and

88
1 seizure. They are saying that -- him and the two
2 detectives are saying they witnessed traffic
3 violations. Well, can the other detective just come
4 in and see if his story matches up to his partner's
5 story?
6 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, this not an illegal
7 search and seizure case. That part is not part of
8 the trial, first. Secondly, you don't know what
9 this officer is going to say, you're just
10 speculating it sounds like just because he was
11 there. And you can't use this case for discovery
12 for some other purpose to find out what someone has
13 to say. It's not a deposition. So I'm going to
14 have to think long and hard about whether or not I'm
15 going to allow you to call an officer who is not
16 someone who was on your witness list and not someone
17 who you seem to have any questions about until you
18 seem to be thinking of this, as far as I can see,
19 just off the top of your head, to ask him about an
20 illegal search and seizure issue, which is not part
21 of this trial.
22 The jury is not going to be submitted an
23 issue about whether or not there was an illegal
24 search and seizure in this case. That's the kind of
25 thing that should have been raised pretrial. It's

89
1 not that you can't -- well, in any event -- so I
2 will have to think about whether or not I'm going to
3 allow you to do that.
4 Beyond that, is there anything else before
5 we take a break?
6 MR. MEITL: Nothing from the government,
7 Judge.
8 THE COURT: All right. Let's see
9 everybody back here and get ready to start at 1:45.
11 THE COURT: Just so we are clear, what's
12 next?
13 MR. MEITL: I believe Mr. Rose is going to
14 cross-examine Detective Weatherford. After that we
15 will put Agent Wilson on for a limited purpose. And
16 we will have to adjust the schedule a little bit
17 because of a witness's schedule. But we will do two
18 more law enforcement officers after that.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, anything before we
20 get started?
22 THE COURT: Let's bring the jury in.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, you are up for
25 cross-examination.

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2 CROSS-EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. ROSE:
4 Q. Mr. Weatherford, the purpose of bringing you
5 here today was to -- for the authenticity -- to make
6 sure the video was a true video, right?
8 Q. Did you happen to -- are you experienced in
9 this? Did you look at the video to see if it had
10 been altered digitally?
11 A. I did the recording, and then I took it next
12 door to our technical guys and they dubbed it for me
13 to make another copy. So it never left me.
14 Q. So they dubbed it for you?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So the copy we watched there, that's the same
17 copy sitting in front of you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And I have a copy and other people have copies,
20 so there's a few copies of it.
21 A. The only copies I know of is the one here and
22 the one being played and the one presented to you.
23 Q. And to the best -- when was the last time you
24 seen the video other than today?
25 A. When I handed it to Agent Wilson.

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1 Q. How long ago was that, sir?
2 A. The day that it was made.
3 Q. Which is?
4 A. July 29th.
5 Q. All right. For some reason, Mr. Weatherford, I
6 believe you, man. I believe that the video that we
7 seen and everything that, to the best of your
8 recollection, is a true video. The issues that I'm
9 going to end up raising with the video -- the issues
10 I will raise due to the video I don't believe are
11 questions I need to ask you about because they are
12 just very small questions. And there are things
13 with the video you probably wouldn't even remember.
14 So I have no further questions.
15 THE WITNESS: Okay.
16 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Rose.
17 Redirect?
18 MR. MEITL: No further questions from the
19 government.
20 THE COURT: May the officer be excused
21 subject to re-call if necessary?
23 THE COURT: Okay. You are excused. Just
24 remember not to talk about the case until it's over.

92
1 THE COURT: And that you are subject to
2 re-call.
4 THE COURT: Call your next witness.
5 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, government calls
6 Special Agent Wilson.
7 THE COURT: Special Agent Wilson, I know
8 you have been sworn, but we will do it again in
9 front of the jury.
10 (Witness sworn.)
11 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Have a seat and
12 please state and spell your name for the court
13 reporter.
14 THE WITNESS: Eric Wilson, E-R-I-C,
15 W-I-L-S-O-N.
16 SPECIAL AGENT WILSON,
19 BY MR. MEITL:
20 Q. Special Agent Wilson, where do you work?
21 A. I work for the Texas Department of Public
22 Safety. I'm assigned to our Criminal Investigations
23 Division.
24 Q. And are you assigned any types of cases or
25 particular criminal activity?

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1 A. Yes. I work drug cases, gang cases, fugitives,
2 things like that.
3 Q. I referred to you as a special agent. Is that
4 your title?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. How long have you worked for DPS?
7 A. Since February of 2004.
8 Q. How long have you been an investigator looking
9 at gang or drug cases?
10 A. Since February of 2009.
11 Q. Are you the named case agent, the lead case
12 agent on the case of United States v. Casey Rose?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. Now, as we've discussed with the
15 Court, we're calling you twice. First, we're just
16 going to call you now to present some evidence, and
17 then we will call you at the end of the case. Is
18 that your understanding?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. So let's start back on July 29, 2014.
21 Were you working that day?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And what were you doing that day?
24 A. We initiated surveillance on Mr. Rose at a
25 location where he was observed. I arrived on scene

94
1 at an apartment complex on North St. Augustine, just
2 north of 175 in Dallas.
3 A short time later I did observe Mr. Rose
4 visually. I observed him walk towards the back of
5 the complex. And after watching for a little while,
6 I saw him get into a vehicle and depart the complex.
7 Q. All right. And just for the record, do you see
8 Mr. Rose in the courtroom today?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Can you identify where he's sitting and what
11 he's wearing?
12 A. At the defense table with a black jacket and a
13 white shirt.
14 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, may the record
15 reflect the witness has identified the defendant,
16 Casey Rose?
17 THE COURT: Will so reflect.
18 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, let's
19 just step back and give the jury some context for
20 how you even came to know about Mr. Rose or how he
21 became a target of your investigation.
22 A. So in February of 2014, we initiated an
23 investigation into multiple white supremacist gangs
24 in the Dallas area, The Aryan Brotherhood of Texas,
25 The Aryan Circle, Dirty White Boys, Irish Mob. We

95
1 were specifically targeting people that had
2 extensive criminal histories, violent criminal
3 histories, people that had been arrested many, many
4 times and that were still out that were involved in
5 significant criminal activity.
6 So based on source information, interviewing
7 other witnesses, defendants, cooperating
8 individuals, things like that, I heard Mr. Rose's
9 name many, many times as being a source of supply of
10 methamphetamine.
11 Q. All right. And beyond just hearing his name,
12 did you actually come across any physical evidence
13 that linked Mr. Rose to methamphetamine before
14 July 29, 2014?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What was that evidence?
17 A. We had observed -- I had heard about an
18 individual named Cesar Zarate. Mr. Zarate initially
19 was identified during an arrest of a co-conspirator.
20 Mr. Michael McCoy was arrested on a federal gun
21 charge. Mr. McCoy debriefed and identified
22 Mr. Zarate at his supplier. We tried to get him
23 traffic stopped that day, and he got away from us,
24 so I just thought that would be the end of
25 Mr. Zarate.

96
1 I interviewed some other people in this case,
2 Mr. Patrick Penney and witnesses that were at
3 Mr. Penney's house during the search warrant
4 execution by the Mesquite Police Department. They
5 identified Mr. Zarate as their methamphetamine
6 supplier, and it was the same phone number that
7 Mr. McCoy had.
8 We also executed a search warrant at Brad
9 Wiltcher's house. Mr. Wiltcher debriefed and
10 identified Mr. Zarate as a source of supply of
11 methamphetamine. So after I had heard his name
12 three times, we began investigating Mr. Zarate. We
13 located Mr. Zarate at a Motel 6 in Garland. Garland
14 Police officers made contact with him. He initially
15 gave them a fake name, finally gave his true
16 identity. He was found to have an aggravated
17 kidnapping warrant. He was arrested, and a large
18 quantity of methamphetamine was found in his hotel
19 room.
20 So at that point I seize Mr. Zarate's phone,
21 obtain a search warrant to forensically examine it
22 and observe text messages between Mr. Zarate and a
23 phone number that I later found to be used by
24 Mr. Rose.
25 Q. Let me step back. There was a lot you said

97
1 there.
2 You said a source of supply. What does that
3 mean, a source of supply?
4 A. A supplier. Someone that is not just using or
5 using small quantities, but somebody that was
6 selling significant quantities of drugs; in this
7 case, methamphetamine.
8 Q. And you said Mr. Zarate was identified as this
9 source of supply. Is a better way to say it, the
10 drug dealer for individuals?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Mr. Zarate was identified as a drug dealer for
13 numerous individuals.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And based on that, you went and performed a
16 search warrant and an arrest with other agents of
17 Mr. Zarate.
18 A. We didn't perform a search warrant. We just
19 were attempting to locate him. We received
20 information that he was at a Motel 6. I observed a
21 high amount of traffic from one specific room.
22 There was a lot of people in and out, vehicles
23 coming and going that was consistent with narcotics
24 trafficking. So I asked for assistance from
25 uniformed Garland Police officers just to conduct an

98
1 consensual encounter, knock and talk, to let them
2 know about a drug complaint, to see what was going
3 on.
4 When they made entry, they saw scales,
5 paraphernalia, things like that, and they were
6 granted consent to search. And eventually
7 Mr. Zarate was arrested based on that aggravated
8 kidnapping warrant.
9 Q. So you were able to interview Mr. Zarate at
10 that point?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. And you said that he had a phone that was
13 seized. When you say, "seized," what does that
14 mean. That's a legal term.
15 A. So if we run across someone where they are
16 arrested for some type of on view charge, or if a
17 trooper calls me and says that they have made a
18 large seizure and request me to come out and follow
19 up, if there's certain evidence, phones, iPads,
20 laptops, things like that, we will seize them and
21 then obtain a search warrant to examine them as soon
22 as possible.
23 Q. Okay. And the jury probably knows this, but
24 what is a search warrant?
25 A. Search warrant is just a piece of paper that we

99
1 write. There's an affidavit for the search warrant
2 that the law enforcement officer fills out. The
3 affidavit and the search warrant is submitted to a
4 magistrate, and the magistrate makes the
5 determination if there's probable cause to issue the
6 search warrant.
7 Q. Okay. You said a magistrate. Is that just
8 another word for a judge?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Maybe not Judge Boyle, but someone like
11 Judge Boyle?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. Now, you said you would submit this
14 search warrant. And in that search warrant, do you
15 have to establish certain facts?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What kind of facts?
18 A. In this case I would have established in
19 Mr. Zarate's case that there was probable cause to
20 believe that he had committed an offense, a
21 violation of Texas Penal Code, which, in this
22 situation, would just be manufacture/delivery of a
23 controlled substance.
24 Q. Okay. So when you arrest someone like
25 Mr. Zarate, you, as a police officer, cannot just

100
1 start looking through his phone; is that correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. You have to get a court approval before you do
4 that.
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And that is what you, in fact, did with
7 Mr. Zarate?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. In this situation another agent completed the
11 search warrant for me.
12 Q. Yes. Is there another way to get phone records
13 if you are interested in a specific individual other
14 than a search warrant when you have their phone?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. How would you do that?
17 A. You can apply for a court order or search
18 warrant directly to the provider to get historical
19 records from the provider, subscriber records from
20 the provider, live electronic information from the
21 provider, things like that.
22 Q. So if I have a phone with, say, Verizon and you
23 wanted to get my phone records, how would you do
24 that?
25 A. If I wanted to get historical records, I would

101
1 obtain a search warrant, which would be things in
2 the past. And all it is just who they call, who
3 called them, what cell tower was used and subscriber
4 records for historical records. If I wanted
5 something live, then I would apply for a court order
6 for a pen register or trap and trace, electronic
7 location information.
8 Q. Please look at Exhibit 2 in your binder.
10 Q. Special Agent Wilson, have you seen that
11 before?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What is Exhibit 2?
14 A. It's a search warrant to obtain phone records,
15 historical phone records.
16 Q. Who is the search warrant directed towards?
17 A. To Mr. Zarate.
18 Q. Well, is this search warrant seeking records
19 from Mr. Zarate or which company or --
20 A. Yes, it's seeking records of Mr. Zarate, and it
21 is addressed to T-Mobile or MetroPCS.
22 Q. Is that a phone company?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So this search warrant, if approved by a judge,
25 would allow you to review certain phone records of

102
1 Mr. Zarate?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Was a search warrant actually approved by a
4 judge?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. On page 1 of Government's Exhibit 2, is it
7 signed by a judge?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. MEITL: All right. Your Honor, at
10 this time the government would move to admit
11 Government Exhibit 2.
12 THE COURT: I think it's hearsay.
13 Mr. Rose, you object or do you want it in?
14 It is hearsay. I don't think it's admissible.
15 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may, I'm not
16 admitting it for the truth of the matter asserted,
17 I'm only admitting it for the next effect of what
18 happened.
19 THE COURT: I still don't think it passes
20 a 403.
21 What's your position?
22 MR. ROSE: I want it admitted.
23 THE COURT: You do?
25 THE COURT: Okay. Government's Exhibit

103
1 2 -- with Mr. Rose's not just approval but desire to
2 have it admitted -- is admitted.
3 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, after
4 getting the search warrant, did you obtain records
5 back from MetroPCS T-Mobile?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What kind of records did you get back?
8 A. Well, we also served him with -- I got
9 subscriber records from Mr. Zarate, call detail
10 records showing who he had been talking to, who had
11 called him, and we also had a live order for live
12 info.
13 Q. Okay. Let's put that aside.
14 You told us that you also actually seized a
15 phone from Mr. Zarate. Did you seek to get a search
16 warrant to search the contents of that phone?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And did you receive one?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So at that point were you able to search
21 Mr. Zarate's phone?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. When you searched -- did you then review
24 records on his phone?
25 A. Yes.

104
1 Q. Did you see anything that was of interest to
2 you?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Please look at Exhibit 3.
5 What is Exhibit 3, Special Agent Wilson?
6 A. It's text messages between -- that were taken
7 off of Mr. Zarate's phone, a text message exchange
8 between Mr. Zarate and the phone number that was
9 found to be used by Mr. Rose.
10 Q. Okay. Before we admit it, is Mr. Zarate, based
11 on your investigation, a co-conspirator of Mr. Rose?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And are these text messages in furtherance of
14 the conspiracy that -- or do you believe them to be
15 in furtherance of the conspiracy that you have
16 alleged against Mr. Rose and Mr. Zarate?
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, at this time the
19 government moves to admit Government's Exhibit 3.
21 MR. ROSE: On my exhibit list -- I have
22 Zarate's text messages on my exhibit list, I forget
23 which number they are. I don't want to just admit
24 these messages that are picked and choosed through
25 there. I would like to admit his last two weeks'

105
1 worth of text messages.
2 THE COURT: Okay. This is what has to be
3 established, and I think maybe the record is still
4 wanting in this regard. There are a number of cases
5 on this, but there is a very helpful, thorough case
6 out of the District of Maryland, 241 F.R.D. 534, May
7 of 2007. It talks about the authentication process
8 to ensure reliability of this kind of evidence. We
9 want to make sure it's relevant, in other words,
10 make sure that it shows that some fact of
11 consequence is more or less probable than otherwise
12 would be without it; that it's authentic; that it is
13 what the proponent says it is; that if it's offered
14 for the truth, and therefore hearsay, that there's
15 some exception that it falls under; that I know
16 that -- what we've got here is simply a chart at
17 this point, correct, we're not showing actual text
18 messages, right?
19 MR. MEITL: That's correct, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: And that the probative value
21 isn't substantially outweighed by the danger of
22 unfair prejudice. So I want a little bit more
23 information on the -- especially on the
24 authentication. And I understand its relevance, but
25 I think that needs to be probed a little bit further

106
1 because it's a bit glossed over, understanding
2 there's a reason not to at least start that way. So
3 let's hear a little more on that, please.
5 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, you said
6 that you seized a phone from Cesar Zarate; is that
7 correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Does that mean you actually took it from him
10 where it was in his possession?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did that lead you to believe that the phone was
13 being used by Mr. Zarate?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you said that you then ordered -- or you
16 sought records from T-Mobile through a search
17 warrant to see if that phone was, in fact, used by
18 Mr. Zarate; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did those records reflect it was, in fact, used
21 by Mr. Zarate?
22 A. I don't remember who the subscriber records
23 came back to, but there was communication with
24 people that I knew Mr. Zarate to conspire with.
25 Q. Is there any reason to think that that phone

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1 you seized was not used by Mr. Zarate?
2 A. No. It was the same number that had been given
3 by Mr. McCoy, by a witness at Mr. Penney's search
4 warrant execution, by Mr. Wiltcher. There was
5 many -- the number stayed the same over a
6 significant period of time. It was always used by
7 Mr. Zarate.
8 Q. All right. And then, once you searched the
9 phone, you were able to review certain text
10 messages, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And based upon your review of the text
13 messages, did it appear to you, based on your
14 experience in this case and otherwise, that
15 Mr. Zarate was the one, in fact, using this phone?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And those text messages, how do you go about
18 getting those text messages out of the phone?
19 A. So when I have a search warrant to forensically
20 examine a phone, there's multiple software that's
21 available. The one we have in our office is called
22 Cellebrite. All I do is, I have attended a basic
23 training class on how to operate the instrument.
24 Basically all it does is, I enter the model number,
25 I follow instructions to -- basic instructions to

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1 keep the power on, not to lock. I activate the
2 developer options so that it will properly download.
3 And then I select what information I want, such as
4 phone contacts, SMS messages, MMS messages, videos,
5 pictures, contact lists, things like that.
6 Then it just downloads the contents of the
7 phone, depending on -- if it's a large phone with 40
8 gigs on it, then it will take a long time to
9 download. If there's not a whole lot stored on it,
10 then it takes a shorter period of time. All that
11 data is -- on one side of the device is a cable that
12 connects it to the phone. On the other side of the
13 device is a USB flash drive that it's burning the
14 examination report on.
15 Q. What is that software called?
16 A. Cellebrite.
17 Q. How do you spell that?
18 A. C-E-L-L-E-B-R-I-T-E.
19 Q. And is that, what you just said, a long way of
20 saying basically you are just copying the contents
21 of the phone onto something that can be viewed on a
22 computer?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. What's in Exhibit 3? Is that a
25 text message that you took from Cesar Zarate's

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1 phone?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And before we discuss the actual words in the
4 text message, based on your review, does that relate
5 to drug trafficking, what's in Exhibit 3?
6 A. Yes.
7 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, I believe we have
8 established the authentication, relevancy. And as
9 far as hearsay, this would be co-conspirator
10 statements going back and forth. So at this time we
11 move to admit Government Exhibit 3.
12 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Rose?
13 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. On my exhibit
14 list, my first exhibit was Cesar Zarate's arrest
15 reports. I find those relevant to be admitted,
16 which we admitted some of them, the search warrant.
17 I want all of his records to be admitted. And the
18 text messages, this is what we are discussing right
19 now. On mine, we have the Cellebrite report that
20 Mr. Wilson just acknowledged that he downloaded.
21 May we admit the report of the Cellebrite?
22 THE COURT: Here's what we're going to do.
23 First off, you have all of this evidence
24 yourself, correct?
25 MR. ROSE: Sitting right here.

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1 THE COURT: Yeah. You can offer it --
2 mark it and offer it yourself. I am not going to
3 require the government to offer it. I don't have
4 any information that it's incomplete or misleading
5 on its own as offered. So you are free to offer it,
6 yourself. Right this minute is not the time to do
7 that. I think the government has layed an
8 appropriate predicate to authenticate and make
9 relevant and admissible Government's Exhibit 3. So
10 I'm going to admit Government's Exhibit 3 as is.
11 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, may we publish
12 that to the jury?
14 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, this is a
15 little difficult to read in its current form; is
16 that correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. So, in fact, did you assist in creating a
19 summary of this that we're going to show the jury in
20 a little bit?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. We will come back to that.
23 How do you know that this text exchange was
24 between Cesar Zarate and Casey Rose, if you know
25 that?

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1 A. Well, the contact was saved in Mr. Zarate's
2 phone as C-E-E at K. Sometimes the Cellebrite,
3 depending on how people save their contacts, if it's
4 first name first, last name first, things like that,
5 sometimes it will be reversed. So when I saw that
6 KC, that was a known moniker that Mr. Rose went by.
7 We had seen that in a lot of different things, just
8 the initials K and C for Mr. Rose. Based on that, I
9 initially suspected that that was Mr. Rose's number.
10 Q. And is there a phone number associated with the
11 person Mr. Zarate is communicating with here?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What is that phone number?
14 A. (214)710-0681.
15 Q. Okay. Now, is there a way for you, then, to
16 seek from the phone company to determine who --
17 who -- what individual is associated with that
18 telephone number?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How would you do that?
21 A. I prepared a search warrant, again, for the
22 electronic records to obtain subscriber records,
23 call detail records, things like that, from T-Mobile
24 and MetroPCS.
25 Q. In fact, did you do that?

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1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Did you receive records back from MetroPCS?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Please look at Government's Exhibit 4.
5 A. (Witness complied)
6 Q. What is Government's Exhibit 4?
7 A. It's subscriber records from MetroPCS.
8 Q. You understand this to be a business record
9 MetroPCS keeps in the normal course of business?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you receive a business affidavit related to
12 these records?
13 A. Yes, I did.
15 government would move to admit Government's Exhibit
16 4.
18 MR. ROSE: Go ahead. I mean, you're going
19 to anyway. Go ahead.
20 THE COURT: Well, I don't know that that's
21 the case.
22 MR. ROSE: I don't object to that.
23 THE COURT: You do not object?
24 MR. ROSE: I mean, yeah, I do object.
25 THE COURT: Okay. Sustained.

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1 MR. ROSE: For the basis --
2 THE COURT: Sustained. I sustain the
3 objection. I think if it's a business record, I
4 need more of a business record predicate. So I
5 sustain the objection.
6 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, as far as
7 Government's Exhibit 4, you sought these from
8 MetroPCS directly?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you then obtained them back from MetroPCS?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did they provide you with an affidavit that
13 supports the business -- that they keep these in the
14 normal course of business?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may through
17 the court security officer -- I did not mark it as
18 an exhibit, but I would be happy to provide it to
19 the Court through the court security officer.
20 THE COURT: Does Mr. Rose have a copy of
21 the affidavit?
22 MR. MEITL: I will provide him with an
23 affidavit right now.
24 THE COURT: This is permissible under the
25 Federal Rules of Evidence. Take a look at it, and

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1 then I will hear what you have to say, Mr. Rose, and
2 then I will take a look at it.
3 MR. ROSE: I'm fine with it.
4 THE COURT: Do you continue -- and it's
5 completely your choice, Mr. Rose. Do you continue
6 to object, or where are you on this?
7 MR. ROSE: No, ma'am. I don't want to
8 object to any of the phone records, phone
9 conversations or anything, search warrants or
10 nothing. I want all of that to be admitted.
11 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 4 is
12 admitted.
13 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, may we publish
14 that to the jury?
16 MR. MEITL: Ms. Slimak, if you will put up
17 Government's Exhibit 4.
18 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, you told
19 us these are subscriber records. What are these?
20 A. Subscriber records are just records kept by the
21 provider for who is the account, what name the
22 account is in, address associated with it. There's
23 a lot of electronic data as far as technical, the
24 electronic serial number, the IMEI, things like
25 that.

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1 Q. And looking at that -- and maybe Ms. Slimak, if
2 you will zoom in the top left-hand corner, can you
3 tell which particular phone this phone number was
4 subscribed to?
5 A. Yes. It was subscribed to Casey Rose.
6 Q. How do you know it's the same phone you sought
7 to obtain records from? Meaning, is there a phone
8 number there that you associate --
9 A. Yes. They will show the history of -- like in
10 this case, there's been multiple devices associated
11 with that phone number, because people can keep
12 their same phone number and obtain different phones.
13 So each block that you see will show the phone
14 number, phone model, MZ, things like that,
15 associated with it. But all of the phones are
16 associated with the same phone number.
17 Q. And if we could scroll, Ms. Slimak, so we can
18 show what Special Agent Wilson is talking about,
19 that first column on the left-hand side.
20 Is that what you are talking about, Special
21 Agent Wilson? You see different phone models listed
22 with that same phone number?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Now that phone number there, can you read it
25 for the jury, that's attached to Mr. Rose's name?

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1 A. It's (214)710-0681.
2 Q. Okay. If we could also bring back up Exhibit 3
3 and check to make sure that's the same number we
4 were just looking at in that text message.
5 If we could just zoom in a little bit,
6 Ms. Slimak, on that number on the side there.
7 Special Agent Wilson, is that the same number
8 in the subscriber records?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. When you got these subscriber records back from
11 MetroPCS, did that lead you to believe that the
12 individual, Casey Rose, communicated with
13 Mr. Zarate?
14 MR. ROSE: Object, Your Honor. If we
15 don't have all the text messages, he can't say that
16 was me texting. I would like to admit all the text
17 messages, just the last two weeks of text messages
18 or one week.
19 THE COURT: You have those, right?
20 MR. ROSE: I have them.
21 THE COURT: I will give you a chance to do
22 that on cross-examination. Otherwise, they have
23 established the admissibility of this.
24 MR. ROSE: Sorry, I didn't understand
25 that.

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1 THE COURT: That's all right. I
2 understood that completely, and I think the jury
3 understands that, too. So overrule that objection,
4 but give you a chance to offer all of that.
5 All right?
7 THE COURT: Go ahead.
8 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Thank you, Your Honor.
9 Special Agent Wilson, turning back to
10 Exhibit 3, we talked about how it's difficult to
11 read in its current form. We talked also about how
12 you assisted in creating a summary of that text
13 message; is that right?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Please look at Exhibit 54. What is Exhibit 54?
16 A. It's a text message conversation between
17 Mr. Rose and Mr. Zarate.
18 Q. Is it a summary based on the records we were
19 just looking at?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And is Exhibit 54 based on what we just saw in
22 Exhibit 3?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. As well as other records we're going to get to.
25 A. Yes, sir.

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1 Q. Have all of those records that are obtained in
2 Exhibit 54 been produced to the defense at some
3 point prior to today?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And are the text records for Mr. Zarate
6 voluminous, meaning are they large in nature?
7 A. Yes.
8 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, at this time
9 government moves to admit 54 under Rule 1006 as a
10 summary exhibit.
11 THE COURT: Number 54?
13 THE COURT: And these are admissions by
14 the defendant?
15 MR. MEITL: These are summaries of the
16 text messages, Your Honor. They are just in a more
17 readable format for the jury.
18 THE COURT: Government's 54?
20 THE COURT: How is this is a summary?
21 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, what it does is,
22 it shrinks down the total number of text messages.
23 It also puts pictures in so you can tell which
24 individual is writing which text message. And it
25 just provides color and context so that it's easier

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1 for the jury to understand as opposed to that chart.
2 THE COURT: Is that what you are talking
3 about?
6 MR. ROSE: To be honest with you, ma'am,
7 that does not matter at all. If you want to admit
8 that, if that will speed this process up so we can
9 get this out of the way.
10 THE COURT: Okay. I'm just trying to -- I
11 think it's admissible. I don't know why that I
12 understand why it's a 1006. It certainly seems to
13 be an admission. But how is this a summary of
14 Government's 3?
15 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, maybe Government's
16 3 is not the best example. But as you will see
17 later in the trial, there are 2200 text messages.
18 They are not in a particular order, so it would be
19 very difficult for the jury or the parties or the
20 Court to read them and have context unless they are
21 pulled out and placed in this summary format.
22 THE COURT: So you have chosen some kind
23 of ad hoc that you thought were most relevant to
24 your case.
25 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. What we have

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1 done is, for example, if Mr. Kull and I were
2 exchanging text messages and I was also exchanging
3 text messages at the same time with my wife, those
4 might get intermixed with the records. So instead,
5 the summaries take it out and just put conversations
6 together.
7 THE COURT: Okay. I think they are
8 admissible under 801 as an admission, so I'm going
9 to admit them. That's Government's Exhibit 3.
10 MR. MEITL: Government's Exhibit 54, Your
11 Honor.
12 THE COURT: I'm sorry, 54. It's a summary
13 of Government's Exhibit 3.
14 MR. MEITL: Yes.
15 Ms. Slimak -- may we publish that, Your
16 Honor?
18 MR. MEITL: If we could put up Exhibit 54.
19 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Looks like we're off kilter.
20 If the CSO wouldn't mind helping us adjust that just
21 a little bit.
22 THE COURT: It does that when you move it.
23 It should be able to refresh.
24 MR. MEITL: And Your Honor, if it would be
25 helpful, while they are doing that, I do have hard

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1 copies, if the CSO could hand out. I don't know if
2 we will have this problem where we can't see.
3 THE COURT: All right. Let's go ahead and
4 hand them out, if you will have Mr. Quinones hand
5 them out. I'm not sure everyone can read it from
6 there anyway.
7 Do you have a copy of this, Mr. Rose?
8 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, of course.
9 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, as we go, these
10 are summaries of all of the text messages, so I
11 don't want to give the jury too much. I don't have
12 them page by page. Exhibit 54 is the top of the set
13 of exhibits.
14 THE COURT: Okay. So Exhibit 54 is more
15 than just this one page that I have.
16 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. If it's
17 easier, we will just come back to it when all of
18 them are admitted, just to be safe.
19 THE COURT: Let's be safe.
20 MR. MEITL: Okay.
21 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, based on
22 these text records, which we will come back to,
23 about what actually was in them, what did you do
24 next in your investigation?
25 A. At this point, we wanted to locate Mr. Rose,

122
1 conduct surveillance on him, see if we saw anything
2 suspicious and begin investigating him.
3 Q. And did that occur on July 29, 2014?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And while you're performing surveillance that
6 day, you said you were personally performing
7 surveillance?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you take any photographs that day?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you personally take those photographs?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Can you look at Government's Exhibit 1, please?
14 A. 1?
15 Q. Yes. What is Government's Exhibit 1?
16 A. They are surveillance pictures I took on
17 July 29th, 2014, of Mr. Rose.
18 Q. And do these photographs fairly and accurately
19 represent what you were seeing that day?
20 A. Yes, sir.
22 government moves to admit Government's Exhibit 1.
23 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 1?
24 MR. MEITL: Yes.

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1 MR. ROSE: I object to it.
2 THE COURT: Pardon?
3 MR. ROSE: Object.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Tell me the basis. I
5 know you don't know the Rules of Evidence. I
6 understand that. I want to make sure I have given
7 you a chance to make a record.
8 MR. ROSE: Well, I know for a fact -- I
9 don't know the Rules of Evidence, you're right, but
10 I do know what's right and wrong. I do know at the
11 point that he was at when he was taking the pictures
12 he had done everything illegally right then, so
13 that's why I'm objecting to those. But go ahead and
14 show them.
15 THE COURT: All right. The requirement at
16 this point is that they establish that they are
17 relevant and that they -- in this witness's
18 firsthand knowledge view reflect what they appear to
19 reflect, and I think that's been established. So
20 I'm going to admit Government's Exhibit 1, which is
21 a series of pictures, 1 through 10.
22 MR. MEITL: Thank you. Your Honor, may we
23 publish those to the jury?
25 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Now, there are ten photographs,

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1 is that right, Special Agent Wilson?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. So we will ask Ms. Slimak to scroll through
4 each one of them one at a time on Exhibit 1 just to
5 give the jury a sense of what is there. If she can
6 just flip through them every other second or so.
7 And while she's doing that, Special Agent
8 Wilson, what are we seeing in these photographs?
9 A. I observed Mr. Rose depart some unknown
10 apartment, and he was walking through the middle of
11 the complex. That was the laundry room, and he
12 walked into the laundry room. So I grabbed my
13 camera and just started taking pictures to document
14 that he was at that apartment complex. And he was
15 with another individual that I wasn't familiar with,
16 so just tried to get as many pictures as possible to
17 document any other suspects that I didn't know
18 about, things like that.
19 Q. So is Mr. Rose depicted in these photographs?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What is he wearing, if you can tell?
22 A. He's wearing the red shirt. He's on the right.
23 Q. Let's step aside from that.
24 Now, the jury heard -- you were in the
25 courtroom when Detective Emerson was here, correct?

125
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. You heard about how he recovered a phone from
3 Mr. Rose that day.
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And he said that he provided that phone to you,
6 is that correct? Did he provide a phone to you?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And what did you do, if anything, after you
9 received that phone with that phone?
10 A. I obtained a search warrant to forensically
11 examine it.
12 Q. All right. So again, you got this search
13 warrant so you could legally search that phone?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Now, during the interview that we watched
16 earlier, that video interview, you asked Mr. Rose
17 for consent to search his phone on a couple of
18 occasions; is that right?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Did he ultimately provide consent to you?
21 A. I didn't really ask. He indicated that he
22 would provide it the next day. I had asked several
23 questions about it, just because he didn't
24 immediately say so and he was saying he would do it
25 the next day. I just thought it was safer just to

126
1 go ahead and obtain the search warrant, so I never
2 asked him for consent again after that. I just
3 obtained the search warrant instead.
4 Q. Please look at Government's Exhibit 5.
5 What is Government's Exhibit 5?
6 A. It's a search warrant to forensically examine
7 the cell phone that was he seized from Mr. Rose.
8 Q. Was that search warrant ultimately approved by
9 a judge?
10 A. It was. It was signed the next day, July 30,
11 2014, after Mr. Rose's detention.
13 government would move to admit Exhibit 5 for record
14 purposes. If the defendant would like that admitted
15 for all purposes, we would be happy to oblige that.
16 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, please admit it.
17 THE COURT: I'm not going to admit it
18 right now because I want to talk to you about this.
19 MR. ROSE: I need it admitted.
20 THE COURT: We will talk about it at the
21 break, because I don't think it's admissible and I
22 think it's to your detriment and it's filled with
23 hearsay. We will talk about it. Okay? So right
24 now I will hold off on admitting it except for
25 record purposes. So Government's Exhibit 5 is

127
1 admitted for record purposes only at this point.
2 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, what kind
3 of phone was recovered from Mr. Rose on July 29th,
4 2014, if you know?
5 A. It was an LG, LGMS769.
6 Q. All right. And was there a phone number
7 associated with that phone?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Was that that same phone number we just went
10 over?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. What did you do once you had the search
13 warrant for that phone?
14 A. I, again, used the same device, the Cellebrite
15 device. I connected it, plugged in the flash drive
16 and downloaded the contents of the cell phone to the
17 flash drive to create the examination report.
18 Q. Now, for purposes of trial, you don't bring a
19 flash drive to court; is that right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. So how do you present that to the members of
22 the jury?
23 A. Copy it onto a DVD generally.
24 Q. All right. Can you please take a look at
25 Exhibit 25. What is Government's Exhibit 25?

128
1 A. It's a DVD labeled "U.S. v. Casey Rose."
2 Q. Have you personally looked at the contents of
3 that DVD?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What are the contents of the DVD?
6 A. It's the Cellebrite forensic examination report
7 of the phone that was seized from Mr. Rose.
8 Q. And did you personally make that forensic copy
9 of Mr. Rose's phone?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you personally reviewed the content, and it
12 fairly and accurately represents what was actually
13 on the phone?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, the government
16 moves to admit Government's Exhibit 25 into
17 evidence.
18 THE COURT: Okay. And exactly what is
19 this?
20 MR. MEITL: This is the contents of
21 Mr. Rose's phone in its entirety in the sense of
22 everything that Special Agent Wilson selected to be
23 copied, meaning call logs, pictures, text messages,
24 things of that sort.
25 THE COURT: Is there a hard copy of

129
1 something that reflects the contents?
2 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, it can be printed.
3 It's a little voluminous. We intended to present
4 that electronically to the members of the jury.
5 THE COURT: That's fine. I didn't know if
6 you were going to follow up with anything like that.
7 Do you understand what this is, Mr. Rose?
8 It's your cell phone.
9 MR. ROSE: Yes. I want it in.
10 THE COURT: All right. Government's
11 Exhibit 25 is admitted.
12 MR. MEITL: Thank you, Your Honor.
13 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, when we
14 call you back, we will go over some of the contents
15 of that phone. But, again, we are just getting in
16 certain evidence.
17 Now when we watched your interview of Mr. Rose
18 on July 29, it appeared at the beginning that you
19 took certain photographs of him; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you save those photographs?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Let's look at Government's Exhibit 26, please.
24 What is Government's Exhibit 26?
25 A. They are pictures that I took of Mr. Rose at

130
1 Dallas Police Department headquarters on July 29 of
2 2014.
3 Q. And do those pictures fairly and accurately
4 represent what Mr. Rose looked like that day when
5 you took those photographs?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Your Honor, the government moves to admit
8 Government's Exhibit 26 into evidence.
9 MR. ROSE: I object to that on the grounds
10 of --
11 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
12 MR. ROSE: I will object to that on the
13 grounds of that was gathered illegally.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Right now I'm going to
15 hold off on admitting this. I think it might be
16 cumulative. I know what you are going to say,
17 Mr. Meitl, is that we had the video, we saw him
18 getting the pictures taken and perhaps some of the
19 markings weren't as visible.
20 Right now I will sustain the objection.
21 You've laid the predicate. Let me talk to you about
22 it a little bit later in the case.
23 MR. MEITL: Very good, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: All right. That's
25 Government's Exhibit 26.

131
1 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, during
2 that interview with Mr. Rose, we heard the names of
3 several other individuals that he dealt with; is
4 that right?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Did that include individuals such as Brandon
7 Crow?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Jackie Hooker?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Cesar Zarate?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And as part of your investigation, do you
14 understand Mr. Rose to also be associated with an
15 individual by the name of James Gatlin?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And do you understand that Mr. Rose, based on
18 your investigation -- or at least you suspect he's
19 involved in drug trafficking with all of these
20 individuals.
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. Please look at Government's
23 Exhibits 48 to 52.
24 THE COURT: Let's do something, ladies and
25 gentlemen, so we don't have any delay. I have a

132
1 couple of questions to ask the government. We're
2 going through evidence now through the case agent,
3 so I want to spend about five or ten minutes asking
4 them a couple of questions so we don't delay. I
5 will send you back to the jury room for a few
6 minutes, if you don't mind. Please remember not to
7 talk about the case.
9 THE COURT: I think this is probably
10 better than back and forth, Mr. Meitl, on some of
11 this stuff. You can tell me for the record what --
12 where we're going with this. And let's start with,
13 is it 26, the pictures? Again, you have all of the
14 pictures from the video that we heard today. Why is
15 this not cumulative?
16 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, those photographs
17 are going to be utilized by the expert that we
18 intend to qualify and have testify about Mr. Rose's
19 membership in the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas. Those
20 tattoos that he has are direct evidence of his
21 membership as that expert will testify. I don't
22 believe you can see those tattoos with any detail on
23 the video, so the photographs are necessary for that
24 purpose.
25 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Rose, I want to

133
1 just make sure I've reminded you that you have
2 standby counsel here that understands the Rules of
3 Evidence very, very well. And I know your position
4 up to now is you don't want to ask him anything or
5 have any contact with him, but I want to make sure I
6 have given you another opportunity, because I think
7 he could talk to you about things like allowing the
8 search warrant into evidence and that kind of thing.
9 I'm just trying to protect your rights here without
10 being your counsel. So I want to make sure the
11 record reflects we have had this discussion.
12 Do you want to talk to Mr. Anderson at all
13 about any of this?
15 THE COURT: You sure about that?
16 MR. ROSE: Well, I don't trust the man.
17 THE COURT: You've said that. I'm not
18 sure why, but you've said that.
19 MR. ROSE: He's a good dude. I ain't got
20 nothing anything against the man. But you know,
21 just let him -- he can stay where he's at. When
22 this is all over, I will go cut his grass or
23 something. For right now, I want to represent
24 myself. I'm fixing to do this, and I'm fixing to
25 prove them to be liars.

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1 THE COURT: Okay. Understood.
2 MR. ROSE: What's going to happen then?
3 What's the next move, once I prove them to be liars?
4 THE COURT: I just want to make sure that
5 you have had a chance to, once again, consult with
6 him if necessary, because some of the things that
7 are coming into evidence, I think if you had a
8 lawyer, they would be objected to. I'm not saying
9 the government is doing anything wrong. I think
10 they have their reasons for attempting to admit it,
11 but I think there are some objections that you
12 should be making that you are not making.
13 MR. ROSE: Well, I would like to object to
14 the pictures for Aryan Brotherhood things. Let me
15 tell you why.
17 MR. ROSE: Nobody that's on my indictment
18 is a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. Nowhere on my
19 indictment am I selling drugs to anybody in the
20 Aryan Brotherhood. The Aryan Brotherhood don't have
21 anything to do with this indictment. It don't.
22 THE COURT: It's just that it's part of
23 the indictment.
24 MR. ROSE: So that makes the conspiracy
25 part no good.

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1 THE COURT: Well, they are trying to prove
2 their case, and that's what they have alleged. So
3 I'm going to allow them to do that, now that I
4 understand Mr. Meitl's position on the pictures,
5 Government's 26, I'm going to admit those. I still
6 don't see a reason for the search warrant, which
7 exhibit was that, most recently.
8 MR. MEITL: That's fine, Your Honor. I
9 apologize. I should have marked that for record
10 purposes.
11 THE COURT: That's in for record purposes.
12 MR. ROSE: May I say what the deal is for
13 the search warrant?
15 MR. ROSE: Is to show that the man had
16 legal proof to go into my phone. Because if not, I
17 could object to everything on the Cellebrite and
18 say, no, that Cellebrite is good because he didn't
19 have any legal basis to go into my phone, but he's
20 got a search warrant so the Cellebrite is good.
21 Does that make sense?
22 THE COURT: Well, you understand that you
23 can certainly -- part of your case, you have an
24 absolute right to attempt to show that the witnesses
25 are not being truthful or to attack their

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1 credibility, but the legality of search is not in
2 the case. It's not an issue in the guilt or
3 innocence part of this case or the sentencing. That
4 is something that you didn't bring up before. I'm
5 not saying you can't bring it up, but it's just not
6 part of the trial. You keep talking about showing
7 that the search was bad, but that is not an issue in
8 the case.
9 MR. ROSE: Because you think the search
10 was good.
11 THE COURT: No, it's because you haven't
12 raised it. You haven't filed a motion to suppress.
13 We are in the middle of the trial. I don't know if
14 it was good or not. I don't have a legal opinion
15 about that. I don't have to right now. But I just
16 think you're basing your defense on an incorrect
17 premise. But I will allow you to use some of those
18 questions with regard to the credibility of the
19 witnesses.
20 MR. ROSE: All right, ma'am. I believe I
21 have a letter here that I did raise for a motion to
22 suppress before I fired Mr. Anderson. I wrote you a
23 letter -- I've got a notarized copy -- saying I
24 would like to -- this a motion to suppress my
25 evidence. I want to have a evidence hearing. He

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1 was still my attorney at the time, but he wasn't
2 doing it. He never even did it the whole time he
3 was my attorney. I didn't fire him until like five
4 weeks before I took over this case, before I started
5 representing myself. I tried to file the motion for
6 that. And you said you got a lot of letters from
7 me.
8 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Rose, I'm
9 hearing you out. But as I have said, the legality
10 of the search is not an issue in this trial. We can
11 disagree about that for a couple of hours, but it's
12 not an issue in the trial.
13 Now we're going to talk about the
14 evidence. Okay? I want to make sure that you are
15 being careful about -- and make sure that I am not
16 missing something that perhaps you need to talk to
17 Mr. Anderson. You have indicated unequivocally that
18 you don't, but I want to make sure, now that --
19 where we were when we took this break, Mr. Meitl,
20 you were getting ready to offer a series of
21 exhibits. If you could go to that.
22 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. And if I
23 could just close the loop on the previous issue.
24 The search warrant were Exhibits 2 and 5. The
25 government only sought to put those in as record

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1 purposes -- I apologize for not doing that better --
2 solely for the purpose because I understand the
3 defense has been everything has been obtained
4 illegally. I didn't want the jury to be wondering
5 about that. So that's 2 and 5.
6 THE COURT: 2 and 5, then, of government
7 exhibits, you have only offered for record purposes.
9 THE COURT: Okay. I didn't understand
10 that about 2.
11 MR. MEITL: That was my fault, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Government's 2 and 5, to the
13 extent there is any confusion, are in for record
14 purposes only but not to go back to the jury. And
15 none of the contents except very minor details about
16 what they are have been disclosed to the jury. So I
17 think we are fine on that.
18 Mr. Meitl, go ahead.
19 MR. MEITL: The next set of exhibits we
20 are about to finish, and that's the last set of
21 questions I have for the agent at this time, are
22 driver's license photos of other individuals. And
23 again, that is only to give the jury context of who
24 these individuals are. The photos are not
25 prejudicial. They are just a driver's license photo

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1 of four different co-conspirators so that the jury
2 has as a sense of them. They will see some of these
3 individuals during the rest of the trial, but for
4 purposes of our closing, Judge, and other things, I
5 just want to make sure we have those driver's
6 license photos in as evidence.
7 THE COURT: What number?
8 MR. MEITL: Exhibits 48 through 52.
9 THE COURT: Okay. 48 through 52?
11 THE COURT: Do you have those in front of
12 you, Mr. Rose?
13 MR. ROSE: Ma'am, I can't -- I'm telling
14 you right now, ma'am, I don't know what to think
15 right now. Because the evidence I'm telling you to
16 please make it admissible to them, not for record
17 purposes but for evidence, I'm not being stupid, I'm
18 not being crazy. Okay? As a matter of fact, I'm
19 very cognitive and know exactly what I'm doing.
20 These guys know what I am doing too. That's why
21 they are not raising the argument.
22 Ma'am, you are a judge. I've never met
23 somebody like you before. You are a federal judge,
24 for God's sake. Please, all I'm saying, man, and
25 God is my witness, please listen to me and let me --

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1 I'm not going to -- man, I'm going to win. Nobody
2 does this. Nobody goes pro se and wins, and I'm
3 fixing to. It's going to be in your court. You are
4 fixing to make history. Please allow me to do this.
5 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, listen to me, all
6 right? You're going to get to ask all sorts of
7 questions along the lines of whether or not these
8 officers are telling the truth or not, but the
9 argument that you keep making with that evidence is
10 that the search is illegal and the evidence should
11 be suppressed. This is not the time to do that.
12 Okay? I'm not saying you can't ever bring it up,
13 but we haven't done it before this. This is the
14 trial.
15 MR. ROSE: I'm not suppressing it. I
16 don't want to suppress it. I want to admit it.
17 Does that make sense? I'm trying to admit the
18 search warrants. Put them in as evidence, do not
19 suppress them. You're thinking I want them out, no,
20 I want them in. I want them in admissible as
21 evidence, please.
22 THE COURT: I will give you as much leeway
23 as I can, given your pro se status. But number one,
24 please calm down. Calm down.
25 MR. ROSE: Can I have that paper sack?

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1 THE COURT: You need to just -- all right.
2 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, I'm calm.
3 THE COURT: You're all right. Okay.
4 Now, the question that we started with is
5 Government's Exhibits 48 through 52. My question to
6 you was, do you have those in front of you? And
7 they are driver's license photos of various
8 individuals. I just want to make sure that you have
9 them and know what your position is as to their
10 admissibility.
11 MR. ROSE: I have them now, yes, ma'am.
12 And those I'm going to object to.
13 THE COURT: And for what reason?
14 MR. ROSE: Do I got a legit reason to
15 object to them?
16 THE COURT: You tell me.
17 MR. ROSE: Apparently I do, because you're
18 asking me.
19 THE COURT: You tell me.
20 MR. ROSE: I'm objecting to them, man,
21 because, you know, I don't want them in there.
22 THE COURT: And Mr. Meitl, for the record,
23 the relevance?
24 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, they are relevant
25 just to give the jury context of who these

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1 co-conspirators are. It will aid the jury in
2 understanding the evidence. They are only being
3 admitted for that purpose. They are simply driver's
4 license photos, they are not mugshots or other
5 photographs that would be prejudicial in nature.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Objection is overruled
7 given the conspiracy charge, given the testimony
8 that we have had so far. And I'm assuming that
9 Agent Wilson is going to connect this up with why
10 these are pictures of pictures of individuals who
11 were somehow involved in this case?
12 MR. MEITL: Yes, I think we had done that
13 just before we broke, but I can certainly do that
14 again, Your Honor. And that will be all the
15 questions I have for Special Agent Wilson at this
16 time.
17 THE COURT: Government's Exhibits 48, 49,
18 50, 51 and 52 are admitted. Note your objection.
19 Anything else by way of evidence that we
20 need to address?
22 While we're here, I do intend to introduce
23 those summaries of the text messages later in the
24 trial.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

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1 MR. MEITL: Again, that's really just to
2 aid the jury. I didn't really want them just for
3 demonstrative purposes, I wanted them to have them
4 to review them. So that was the idea there.
5 THE COURT: Understood. And I have had
6 this come up one other time in the age of text
7 messaging. I am not 100 percent sure if they
8 qualify as 1006. I think what they are are
9 admissions of what you have picked and chosen
10 through other admissions that I have admitted that
11 you have decided to highlight. For that reason, I
12 think they are admissible. I just don't want the
13 record to reflect that maybe I let them in under
14 what I think might be faulty -- I know you don't
15 agree, but that's my position. I think you can use
16 them as admissions that you have just picked and
17 chosen. The rest of them were admissible and, in my
18 view, they are not cumulative.
19 MR. ROSE: I object, Your Honor, because I
20 think all of the messages should be admissible. So
21 what if it's a girl saying, hey, Casey is not here,
22 I have his phone, blah-blah-blah, and I'm getting
23 charged with that.
24 THE COURT: You can admit them. You can
25 offer them -- well, they are in, but you can

144
1 highlight -- you can pick and choose some to show
2 the jury yourself so they are not just left with --
3 are all of them going back? Is that your intention.
4 MR. MEITL: Just so the record is clear,
5 all of Mr. Rose's text messages are already in
6 evidence. They were admitted through that
7 Cellebrite report. They will be sent back to the
8 jury. There are 2200 of them. We can print them
9 out if that would make Mr. Rose more comfortable,
10 but I intended to provide them on the CD so they
11 could be searched by the jury if they wanted to.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, you have seen them
13 all, correct?
14 MR. ROSE: Those are mine. I would like
15 Mr. Zarate's to be printed. Because what if I'm
16 alleging they deleted some off of mine and they
17 printed them out and Zarate's are not deleted?
18 THE COURT: Okay. Let me hear from
19 Mr. Meitl on this.
20 MR. MEITL: I have no objection if he
21 would like to admit the entirety of Mr. Zarate's
22 phone. That was marked by Mr. Crow as -- I'm sorry,
23 by Mr. Rose as Government's Exhibit 2. I have no
24 objections if he would like to get that in. We
25 don't have -- we actually made copies for Mr. Rose

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1 in case these got admitted and we printed it, and so
2 it is printed as a very large file. So I have no
3 objection to those being admitted as a full exhibit.
4 THE COURT: And we don't have Government's
5 2 in evidence right now, do we?
6 MR. MEITL: That's Defense 2, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Defense 2. Okay.
8 MR. MEITL: And I believe you do have a
9 copy of that at the bench. If not, I can provide
10 another copy.
11 THE COURT: Okay. All right. I've got
12 it.
13 All right. Mr. Rose, you can offer those
14 as Defense 2, and you've already submitted that as a
15 potential exhibit, so you can do that.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Let's go ahead and take
18 a five-minute break and we will get started up
19 again. All right.
20 (Recess taken from 2:44 to 2:50; jury
21 present.)
22 THE COURT: Mr. Meitl.
23 MR. MEITL: Yes, Your Honor. When we left
24 off, I was seeking to admit Government's 48 through
25 52, and I understand those are now admitted.

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1 THE COURT: Noting the objection,
2 Government's 48 to 52 are admitted.
3 MR. MEITL: May we publish those to the
4 jury, Your Honor?
6 MR. MEITL: Ms. Slimak, if we can start
7 with Exhibit 48.
8 Q. (By Mr. Meitl) Special Agent Wilson, what is
9 Exhibit 48?
10 A. It's a Texas driver's license picture of
11 Mr. Rose.
12 Q. And let's turn to Exhibit 49.
13 What is that?
14 A. It's a TDCJ picture of Brandon Crow.
15 Q. And Exhibit 50, what is Exhibit 50?
16 A. It's a Texas driver's license picture of Jaclyn
17 Hooker.
18 Q. And Exhibit 51, what is Exhibit 51?
19 A. It's a Texas driver's license picture of Cesar
20 Zarate.
21 Q. And finally, Exhibit 52, what is Exhibit 52?
22 A. It's a Texas driver's license of James Gatlin.
23 Q. Now, these individuals -- we just listed Casey
24 Rose and four other individuals. Based on your
25 investigation, what did you believe these five

147
1 individuals had in common?
2 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear.
3 Q. What did you believe these five individuals to
4 have in that common, and why are we presenting their
5 pictures to the jury?
6 A. They all conspired together to distribute
7 methamphetamine.
8 Q. All right.
9 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, at this time those
10 are the questions I have of the special agent
11 subject to the re-call at the end of the case.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Rose.
15 BY MR. ROSE:
16 Q. Special Agent Wilson, can you tell me about the
17 day I was arrested?
18 A. Specifically, what?
19 Q. Specifically, when was the first time you
20 talked to me?
21 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear.
22 Q. The first time that you talked to me, sir?
23 A. When was the first time I talked to you? It
24 was in the back seat of the patrol car.
25 Q. Could you tell me about that?

148
1 A. I informed you that -- what I did was, a common
2 technique I use when I am dealing with people in
3 this type of investigation, once he is placed into
4 custody, he is placed in the back seat of the patrol
5 car. I got in the back seat. I told him that I
6 arrested Mr. Zarate, that I had Mr. Zarate's phone,
7 that I had examined it and that I had seen Mr. Rose
8 in that phone and that we were investigating him, to
9 where he didn't think it was just a routine stop
10 with a small amount drugs, I wanted him to know that
11 he was being investigated.
12 Q. All right. You said that you seen -- you told
13 me in the back seat that you seen my number in
14 Zarate's phone?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. You obtained a search warrant to see that
17 number?
18 A. I obtained a search warrant to search
19 Mr. Zarate's phone, and I saw your text messages in
20 Mr. Zarate's phone.
21 Q. Did you ever search Mr. Zarate's phone without
22 a search warrant?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. What would happen if you did?
25 A. I mean, certainly wouldn't be able to use that

149
1 evidence. I mean, we don't make searches that
2 aren't legal. It's not a difficult process to
3 obtain a search warrant to examine a phone. It
4 generally takes me 30 minutes to an hour to type a
5 search warrant to examine a phone. There's no
6 reason not to do it the right way.
7 Q. Right. But if you didn't do it the right way,
8 then you would be lying under oath on that stand
9 right now. What would that mean? What would that
10 mean for me? Would that be beneficial to me?
11 A. I can't really speculate on that. That's not
12 what happened.
13 Q. Would you lose your job for lying under oath on
14 the stand?
15 A. I can't really say.
16 Q. Have you ever been accused of lying before?
17 A. Probably.
18 Q. Probably. All right. So let's go. We did the
19 video, we did the interview, we seen the interview.
20 Is that interview the full interview? Has anything
21 been edited or been taken out of that interview?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. And let's get to my cell phone. So you took my
24 cell phone from me. I told you I would sign a
25 consent. Did I tell you I would sign a consent form

150
1 the next day?
2 A. You showed apprehension about it, and you said
3 you would sign it the next day. And just to not
4 have problems with someone later saying that it
5 wasn't voluntary, or something like that, I just
6 thought it was the safest thing to obtain a search
7 warrant instead.
8 Q. So did you bring me a consent form the next
9 day?
10 A. I did not.
11 Q. Did you bring me my phone back the next day?
12 A. I did.
13 Q. All right. When we saw you on here, we exited
14 the interview room, right? What happened to my
15 phone from that point on?
16 A. I kept it. I maintained custody of it.
17 Q. You had custody of it?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you did not go through my phone?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. And God is our witness, you did not go through
22 my phone without a search warrant.
23 A. The battery was dead. It wasn't even on. It
24 was the end of the night. There was no reason to go
25 through it --

151
1 Q. Could you be mistaken in any type of way --
2 THE COURT: Be sure to let him finish.
3 She can't take both of you down.
4 MR. ROSE: I surely apologize.
5 A. The only time that you would ever go through a
6 phone without a search warrant is in some type of
7 accident situation. If I had information that
8 someone was about to die, be murdered, something
9 like that, then I would go through a phone. But
10 there was nothing important. There was no exigency.
11 There was no life-threatening situation. It was
12 just a very routine surveillance and a traffic stop.
13 There was nothing exceptional. And the search
14 warrant was signed the very next day, and that's
15 when I examined it.
16 Q. Got hot in here, ma'am. Let me take the jacket
17 off for a second.
18 Mr. Wilson, you know you're pretty good,
19 Mr. Wilson, but you know you fucked up, right?
20 THE COURT: Okay. Okay.
21 Q. (By Mr. Rose) You know you messed up, right?
22 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Rose, you know
23 you can't say that in court.
24 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry. I said it all on
25 the video. I apologize.

152
1 THE COURT: Apologize to the jury.
2 MR. ROSE: I most definitely apologize to
3 y'all. I'm sorry. I shouldn't even have used those
4 words.
5 THE COURT: Let's start over again.
6 MR. ROSE: I am fixing to prove this man
7 to be a liar. Am I allowed to do that right now?
8 THE COURT: Well, you can cross-examine
9 him, you just can't use words like that.
10 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry. You know what? I
11 was wrong. But when I get done wrong, it --
12 THE COURT: This is not time for argument.
13 MR. ROSE: When I get done wrong and
14 people are lying --
15 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, ask a question.
16 Okay? Question.
17 MR. ROSE: Let me get a drink of water
18 first.
19 Q. (By Mr. Rose) So Mr. Eric Wilson, sir, I had a
20 whole bunch of questions. I wasn't trying to get no
21 trick questions. I wasn't trying to do no John
22 Grisham book and then, bam, hit you with a -- you
23 know, just trying to be man to man. I really like
24 you a lot, Eric Wilson. Really, I do. I think you
25 are a great guy, man, you're a great dude, man, and

153
1 it just really hurts me to do this, man. Because
2 I -- I do feel what you do is the right thing, man,
3 being a police officer. But what you did to me,
4 manipulating that video -- and I haven't even gotten
5 to that yet, but you are sitting right here on the
6 stand and you're lying to these jurors. Lie to me,
7 lie to whoever, but don't lie to these jurors.
8 These are citizens.
9 MR. MEITL: Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Yeah, this is not a question.
11 You are a smart man and you know --
12 MR. ROSE: One more time.
13 THE COURT: Hold on, Mr. Rose. Listen to
14 me one minute. Okay? You are a smart man.
15 MR. ROSE: I'm very smart.
16 THE COURT: I know you are, and you know
17 what a question is.
18 MR. ROSE: This is not me. Now God is
19 taking over.
20 THE COURT: No, no, no, no. It's question
21 time.
22 MR. ROSE: Okay. I'm sorry.
23 THE COURT: Or we're going to have to have
24 you take a break.
25 MR. ROSE: No.

154
1 THE COURT: And I don't want to do that.
2 I don't want to delay this for the jury. So let's
3 ask some questions. Okay?
4 Q. (By Mr. Rose) One more time, did you go
5 through Cesar Zarate's phone without a warrant?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Did you go through my phone without a warrant?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. If I may refer to my --
10 THE COURT: Defense Exhibit 2?
11 MR. ROSE: No, my Defense Exhibit 1. All
12 right? Defense Exhibit 1, it's got Cesar Zarate's
13 arrest reports in there.
14 THE COURT: If I may, Mr. Rose, just so
15 that I'm clear, and this is part of the procedure
16 you may not be familiar with. Are you offering this
17 as an exhibit?
18 MR. ROSE: Most definitely, ma'am.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Any objection?
20 MR. ROSE: There's an objection?
21 THE COURT: Hang on.
22 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, is Mr. Rose
23 seeking to admit the entire arrest report for
24 Mr. Zarate?
25 THE COURT: What are you seeking?

155
1 MR. ROSE: Well, because -- I'm seeking to
2 admit what I have in my hand, because all of this
3 stemmed not just from Zarate. It started with
4 Zarate, as the evidence shows, and goes to me. So I
5 would like to go to Zarate, the incident report and
6 the arrest report on Zarate.
7 THE COURT: That's Defense Exhibit 1.
9 THE COURT: Right? Okay. Have you looked
10 through this carefully?
11 MR. ROSE: Man, I've been living this for
12 a while.
13 THE COURT: Okay. You want this in
14 evidence for the jury's consideration?
16 THE COURT: Are you sure?
17 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, and I would like to
18 just -- yes, ma'am.
20 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, I have no
21 objection. It is -- there is a lot of information
22 in here.
23 THE COURT: I know.
24 Defense Exhibit 1 is admitted.
25 Q. (By MR. ROSE) In this incident report it says,

156
1 on June 26 at 11:00 a.m. police officers was
2 contacted by DPS Agent Wilson basically to go to
3 Motel 6, like you already told us, and they did a
4 knock, and Cesar went to the jail. Cesar's cell
5 phone was seized. Correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. When was his cell phone seized?
8 A. Right then.
9 Q. When did he get his cell phone back?
10 A. He didn't.
11 Q. Okay. All right. I would like to go to my
12 incident report, which is -- my incident report --
13 let me try to find it -- where we go into the effect
14 of where I got arrested and you wrote down I was
15 arrested, you took my phone. Can you tell us, when
16 did I get my phone back?
17 THE COURT: Let's be clear on what exhibit
18 that is.
19 MR. ROSE: Okay. I'm sorry, I can't find
20 the exhibit.
21 THE COURT: Hang on, Mr. Rose. Let's get
22 this cleared up.
23 MR. MEITL: It's not an exhibit for either
24 party.
25 THE COURT: It's not an exhibit.

157
1 MR. ROSE: Okay. My arrest should be in
2 here somewhere. If it's not, we will go off what
3 the agent says, because he's telling the truth.
4 THE COURT: It's not part of the exhibits
5 that you listed or the government listed, correct?
6 MR. MEITL: That's correct, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Go ahead and ask him about it
8 though. You can ask him about it.
9 Q. (By Mr. Rose) The interview was over at 6:35
10 is what the time said. Can you tell me what
11 happened right after that?
12 A. We dropped you off somewhere.
13 Q. How long did it take you to drop me off?
14 A. It wasn't a far distance, I don't think, maybe
15 20 minutes. I don't remember.
16 Q. What did you after that, sir?
17 A. I would assume I went home. I'm not for sure.
18 Q. Would you have had Agent Jose Lucio with you?
19 A. He was following me in his vehicle. He wasn't
20 in the vehicle with me.
21 Q. He wasn't?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. You was in the vehicle by yourself with my cell
24 phone?
25 A. Yes, sir.

158
1 Q. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
2 Then you went home. What happened the next
3 day? You went to sleep, whatever time you woke up,
4 what time did you go to work the next day?
5 A. Somewhere around seven or eight in the morning.
6 Q. Okay. What time did you obtain the search
7 warrant to go through my phone? Around 12:05 is
8 what I think it says. If you want to make sure --
9 just make sure --
10 A. What exhibit is the search warrant?
11 MR. MEITL: Exhibit 5.
12 THE COURT: Government's 5?
14 A. Judge Andy Chatham of the 282nd District Court
15 in Dallas County signed the search warrant on July
16 30th, 2014, at 12:11 p.m.
17 Q. (By Mr. Rose) 12:11 -- I was close. I said
18 12:05 -- on July 30th. You took my phone from me I
19 would say around the interview time, correct, maybe
20 6:00 after the interview, right? You had my phone
21 the whole time, correct?
22 A. Yes, I maintained custody of it.
23 Q. And you did not go through my phone is what you
24 are saying.
25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. Okay. I'm getting to a point right here. I'm
2 just making sure, because of the legality of
3 everything, I'm covering everything so there's no
4 questions here in a little while. And when I raise
5 this issue to you, I can't wait to see your
6 response, because you are a smart man, you're good.
7 Mr. Wilson, you're real good, man, but you messed
8 up, man.
9 THE COURT: Question.
11 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Man saying he didn't go through
12 my phone, I'm saying you're lying, and I'm fixing to
13 prove it right here. Everything you have said is a
14 lie. You manipulated the video, you've done a lot
15 of stuff. Right here, I'm fixing to show you.
16 The Cellebrite, the Cellebrite that you
17 downloaded, what time did you download it?
18 A. I -- I don't remember.
19 Q. Give me a second. It's getting real tense
20 right now.
21 THE COURT: Fine.
22 A. It would have been sometime after the warrant.
23 The time on the Cellebrite, in case there's
24 confusion, is generally reported in GMT time.
25 Q. It don't matter. It don't matter, sir. What

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1 does GMT mean?
2 A. I think it's Greenwich Mean Time. I don't
3 remember exactly what it stands for. It's a
4 universal time. I think there's five hours
5 difference between GMT time and Central Standard
6 Time. So I don't know if you are seeing the time
7 and date stamp that makes you think it was
8 downloaded before this, that's in GMT time, so
9 there's a five-hour difference.
10 Q. That is a lie. But is it five hours front or
11 five hours back?
12 A. I really don't know. I've just --
13 Q. You seem to know a lot about it. Can you tell
14 me, is it five hours forward or five hours back?
15 A. I encounter this on cell phone records
16 sometimes where they are in GMT time. I don't know
17 if it's before or afterwards.
18 Q. Okay. Well, I'm going to go to my cell phone
19 records exhibit whatever, government's exhibit.
20 It's showing here that I got picked up, it says
21 15:26. That dude, Russell, was the passenger in the
22 car. He picked me up. It says -- I'm in the
23 parking lot is what he says at 15:26. It does say
24 GMT, but what does that mean? 15:26, that's 3:26 on
25 that is when he picked me up on that day. That's

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1 about right. Would you agree that's about right?
2 A. Are you talking on July 29th, the day I
3 initiated surveillance?
4 Q. Yeah, about 3:26. That's what time it says he
5 picked me up -- 3:16, actually, 15:16.
6 A. Yeah. I'm not looking at the records. I mean,
7 I remember us initiating surveillance in the
8 afternoon. I can look at my report and the DPD
9 report to get a more specific time when the traffic
10 stop was obtained.
11 Q. Okay. Well, I'm not a very good lawyer, but
12 I'm a real good detective. And when I'm getting --
13 when I know I'm being wronged, God put it on me to
14 find it, sir. I would like to admit this into
15 evidence. But you went through my phone at 8:00 at
16 night, sir, when you scrolled through my text
17 messages picking -- clicking on people's names, LG
18 phone pulls up a little deal. You can look through
19 all the messages. But if you want to look to
20 somebody's message in particular, you click on their
21 name and it pulls a little thing up where you type
22 up, and you scrolled down. When you scrolled down
23 through there, you hit the comma button on a couple
24 of them and you exited out of it. And when you
25 exited out, it saved it in draft at 8:00 that night,

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1 sir. You did that. It just so happens that you did
2 it to a guy named Bobby and you did it to a guy
3 named Slow Poke that you was asking me about in the
4 interrogation room. Not only my phone, sir, but
5 Cesar's phone, you did the same thing because I
6 looked at Cesar's records. That's why I wanted the
7 search warrant, and that's why I wanted Cesar's
8 records admitted, cell phone records. You said his
9 phone got taken from him at 11, around 3 or 4:00 --
10 and Cesar texted at 11:00 --
11 THE COURT: You've got to slow down.
12 Slow.
13 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Cesar texted at 11:00 talking
14 about something, hey, the police are here. 11:00.
15 That GMT thing? Huh-uh. Don't play that.
16 So about four in the evening, you read -- when
17 you read the message, it says when you read the
18 message. You read one of Cesar's text messages.
19 And you even scrolled through there. And when you
20 scrolled through the message, like Slow Poke's, for
21 instance, you're scrolling through there. If you
22 accidentally hit the space button, it ain't gonna
23 show nothing on the screen. But when you say, exit,
24 it's going to say, message automatically saved in
25 drafts. Sir, you was going through my phone, sir.

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1 You're lying. I got proof right here. That's it.
2 You've been lying this whole time, sir. You've lied
3 about that, and I'm fixing to prove you manipulated
4 the video, too, sir.
5 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, I will take all of
6 that as a question about all of this.
7 Mr. Wilson?
8 A. The only thing I can tell you is that I
9 certainly do review the phone -- the -- for -- like
10 with the LG, I knew that to be your phone. I will
11 look at the back to verify it's the same IMEI, and I
12 will verify that it's the same telephone number. We
13 certainly have times when I have something in my
14 pocket. I have seen things where --
15 Q. (By Mr. Rose) You said you did not go through
16 my phone. It was in your custody.
17 A. If I can just finish, I will explain.
18 Q. Go ahead.
19 A. I've seen times before where I have had
20 something in my pocket, I have had something in a
21 seat, it's still on, I haven't turned it off, and I
22 have seen what you are talking about where it will
23 say, draft saved. I will turn it off, take the
24 battery out, things like that. But as far as --
25 we'll will confirm the model. Like before I write

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1 the warrant, I have to go in and I look at the make,
2 model, IMEI serial number, like in the part of the
3 phone where it says "about" the phone. But as far
4 as reviewing the context of text, videos, things
5 like that, that's not something that we do.
6 Q. Well, it just so happens to say at 8:02 at
7 night, 8:02, 35 seconds you reviewed Bobby. You
8 went down through there and you exited out of
9 Bobby's. You actually hit a comma. It's showing on
10 here that you actually hit the comma. At
11 approximately 30 seconds later, you start going
12 through Slow Poke's.
13 Sir, you specifically ask me about a guy named
14 Slow Poke on there.
15 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, can you hang on a
16 second. I don't know what you are referring to, but
17 the record has to reflect, as you are pointing and
18 talking, that we know what you are talking about.
19 MR. ROSE: I'm talking about --
20 THE COURT: What are you holding up?
21 MR. ROSE: This is a copy of my text
22 messages.
23 THE COURT: What government exhibit is
24 that or is it yours?
25 MR. ROSE: It is the government's exhibit.

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1 THE COURT: Which one?
2 MR. ROSE: Government's Exhibit --
3 wherever the Cellebrite review is.
4 THE COURT: Hang on. Let's just make sure
5 we are clear on that so the record is -- Mr. --
6 MR. MEITL: My sense, Judge, is that's an
7 excerpt from Government Exhibit 25 that we admitted
8 on a DVD, and Mr. Rose has printed versions of it.
10 MR. ROSE: Okay. This is all their
11 evidence. The man said he didn't go through my
12 phone.
13 THE COURT: Just a question. Go ahead.
14 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Under oath, Mr. Wilson, you said
15 you didn't go through my phone. When we watched the
16 confession video, as disturbing and sick and
17 pathetic as it was, the whole thing, I noticed
18 everybody was reading it. They weren't watching it.
19 They weren't realizing, when I was asking for my
20 attorneys, I was telling you I was high, when you
21 were making promises to me, my mouth is moving, but
22 you are talking. And it was tripping me out. And I
23 can prove all that, man. Why would you do me like
24 this, man, because I haven't done nothing like this,
25 man.

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1 You manipulated the evidence, sir, and you're
2 trying to -- you've accused me of some crimes. Like
3 I said in the beginning, I can't say I'm perfect. I
4 can't say I'm guilty or innocent, man. But the way
5 you've done this, man, is wrong, because you ain't
6 just done me like this, you done a bunch of people
7 like this. You done a lot of people like this, sir.
8 Nobody has ever busted you, man. Nobody has ever
9 caught you, have they? Because you are good. You
10 covered your basis. You are real good, sir. I said
11 the "F" word, I'm sorry, but you messed up, sir.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, you haven't asked a
13 question in the last, say, 60 seconds. Ask another
14 question.
15 MR. ROSE: Because I am overwhelmed right
16 now. I don't know what to say.
17 THE COURT: You haven't had a break this
18 afternoon, have you?
19 MR. ROSE: I need a Xanax or something.
20 I'm a drug addict, ma'am.
21 THE COURT: Have you had a break since we
22 came back from lunch?
23 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, I've had a break.
24 Q. (By Mr. Rose) What I'm saying is, you went
25 through Cesar's phone, and you didn't have the

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1 warrant to go through his phone until four days
2 later. I have been living and breathing all of the
3 evidence that Mr. Meitl has provided me and you,
4 too, sir. Y'all provided me this evidence. Maybe
5 you thought I wasn't smart enough to figure it out.
6 I knew stuff was wrong. The unlawful arrest. Your
7 officers are covering for you. I understand. If I
8 was a police officer, I wouldn't let some?
9 MR. MEITL: Your Honor --
10 Q. (By Mr. Rose) -- POS get off, either.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Rose -- Mr. Rose, we're
12 going to take a break, whether you need one or not,
13 because you need to calm down.
14 MR. ROSE: Judge, I need some help.
15 THE COURT: All right. No more. No more
16 from you right now.
17 Ladies and Gentlemen, my court reporter
18 hasn't a had a break since we started this
19 afternoon, so I want to give her a ten-minute break.
20 Remember not to talk about the case.
21 All rise, please.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, I just want you to
24 listen. Don't talk. You're getting to the point of
25 being very disruptive. I've told you several

168
1 times -- please, not a word -- to stop making
2 pronouncements and accusations, because that's not
3 what this part of the case is about.
4 You're bordering on getting close to not
5 being able to stay in the courtroom, and I don't
6 want to see that happen. All right? You are able
7 to control yourself, I know it. You're putting on a
8 show here, and you're not hurt -- you're hurting
9 yourself. Whatever you believe or don't believe,
10 I'm not saying you don't believe what you are
11 saying, but you've got to calm down, because this is
12 not the proper way to act in the court.
13 And if you get any worse or continue, I
14 will consider that option, which I have warned you
15 about, which is to have Mr. Anderson come in and
16 stand in for you, because that's the option under
17 the law that I have if you become disruptive.
18 Right now I have given you plenty of
19 leeway, more than anyone normally gets in this court
20 or any court. So we're going to take a break. I
21 want you to calm down. But I want you to heed this
22 warning, you have a chance now to put your case on,
23 you're getting to do it, your day in court. Don't
24 blow it. Okay?

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1 THE COURT: All right. Ten minutes.
3 THE COURT: Let's just talk real quick.
4 Everybody ready to go?
5 Mr. Rose, are you all right?
7 THE COURT: Are you going to calm down?
8 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am -- well, yes, ma'am.
9 THE COURT: I'm not saying you can't ask
10 your questions, but you just can't make these
11 statements. And you cannot curse in front of the
12 jury. Do you understand? That's major. Okay.
13 MR. ROSE: That's major. I know, ma'am.
14 THE COURT: Are you ready to go,
15 government?
16 MR. MEITL: We are, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: All right, let's bring them
18 in.
20 THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, we're
21 going to go until five. Any emergencies, let me
22 know. In the meantime, Mr. Rose, go ahead.
23 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Sir, what about the -- you
24 said -- what about the baggies that was recovered on
25 the highway?

170
1 A. I'm sorry?
2 Q. The baggies of -- allegedly there was dope
3 thrown out the window of the pursuit and baggies and
4 dope -- is that true, baggies and dope was recovered
5 on the highway?
6 A. I believe Detective Darst told me that he saw
7 some baggies in the road that -- because when I
8 questioned you, I asked about they were tied up
9 really high, which would mean if a sandwich bag is
10 tied down, the knot is really low.
11 Q. Are those in evidence, though? Did Detective
12 Darst get those off the highway? Of course he did.
13 Of course he did. Where are they at?
14 A. I will just finish and explain it to you.
15 Q. I'm just asking you a question, sir. Detective
16 Darst is not here.
17 THE COURT: He's trying to finish,
18 Mr. Rose. Let him finish.
19 A. That's what I was referring to in the video.
20 When a bag is tied down real low, it's a smaller
21 quantity. When a plastic bag is tied up real high,
22 you know generally that's an indicator that there's
23 a lot in there. So when people are throwing dope
24 out, they know if they just throw the bag out that
25 we will just recover it. So they rip out the bottom

171
1 so that when they throw it everything comes out.
2 So I believe Detective Darst saw some, because
3 he talked about the knots being tied real high, but
4 there was nothing in them. To my knowledge, they
5 weren't retained. There was nothing to submit to
6 the lab because there was no narcotics left in them
7 because it had all been poured out and destroyed.
8 Q. Because there was no bags, sir.
9 You know what, sir, let's go to the search
10 warrant on my phone. You typed in the reason for
11 the search warrant that baggies and dope was
12 recovered from the road. This is what you typed up,
13 sir, some more falsified information. Baggies and
14 dope was recovered from the road you said in the
15 search warrant, did you not? Do I need to bring
16 this out. Just look for it. Let me find it first,
17 sir.
18 A. Yes, I see what you are talking about.
19 Q. Okay. This is your -- you've typed this up,
20 right?
21 A. I did.
22 Q. Okay. It says it right here. All right,
23 Exhibit 5, page 5 of 13, you said, crystal substance
24 was recovered on the road. Empty baggies with a
25 clear crystal substance were recovered on the road.

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1 You wrote that, sir.
2 A. It said -- right, that's what I'm talking about
3 with Detective Darst. I said a small quantity of a
4 clear crystal substance was recovered from inside
5 the vehicle and empty baggies with a clear crystal
6 substance recovered on the road.
7 Q. With a clear crystal substance, empty baggies
8 with a clear crystal substance were recovered on the
9 road.
10 A. That was my understanding from Detective Darst.
11 There were baggies that were recovered. You can see
12 residue in them, but there wasn't anything to test.
13 Q. Can you test a bag that has residue?
14 A. There's -- for my purposes, I mean --
15 Q. But you could still test the bag and see what
16 kind of residue was in that bag, can you not?
17 A. You can sometimes do -- we've tested small
18 quantities --
19 Q. Not sometimes. Yes or no.
20 THE COURT: You've got to let him finish,
21 because she simply can't take both of you down.
23 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Yes or no, sir?
24 A. Yes, you can test very small trace quantities.
25 It's not something we routinely do.

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1 Q. If you or your officers are accusing me of
2 throwing dope out the window, then you need the
3 dash-cam video, which is absurd, this marked car for
4 two years has been -- this is for your covert
5 illegal operations I believe is what you use this
6 car for because you don't have a dash-cam video in
7 it, which is a lie.
8 You've lied on the arrest warrant for me.
9 Cesar Zarate's phone, I looked at his phone and you
10 went through his phone without a warrant hours after
11 he was arrested. Then you went through his phone,
12 and you illegally -- what you did was this, sir.
13 These -- this is -- these pictures are pictures from
14 my phone. These pictures have a time and date stamp
15 on them, sir. It just so happens when you busted
16 Cesar on 6/27 that you just so happened to go into
17 my Google account, and this is -- you're right,
18 ma'am, I am very smart. You went in there, and you
19 downloaded all these pictures and saved them. You
20 saved these pictures to my phone so when you got me,
21 my phone would have these pictures in there that you
22 knew the evidence was in there. You illegally went
23 in my phone on 6/27, the same day, in the evening,
24 after Cesar was busted, you went through his phone,
25 sir. You noticed my number. Then you went into my

174
1 Google account, and then you illegally downloaded
2 these numbers.
3 THE COURT: Hold on. What exhibit is
4 that?
5 MR. ROSE: The Cellebrite report.
6 THE COURT: I just need a number.
7 MR. ROSE: Cellebrite report. This is all
8 the government's stuff.
9 THE COURT: I just need a number.
10 MR. MEITL: I believe it's Defense 2, Your
11 Honor.
12 THE COURT: Defense 2. Thank you.
13 MR. ROSE: Defense 2 would be --
14 MR. MEITL: I'm not sure, Your Honor.
15 Cesar Zarate's phone is Defense 2.
16 MR. ROSE: This is my phone.
17 MR. MEITL: All right.
18 THE COURT: You're waiving around
19 something that --
20 MR. ROSE: Papers that have pictures
21 printed.
22 THE COURT: Please let me finish.
23 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry, I know for legal
24 purposes.
25 THE COURT: For the record, whatever you

175
1 are talking about has to be apparent to someone
2 reading this down the road. You are waiving some
3 papers, and so I want to make sure the record shows
4 what it is you are waiving around, and that would be
5 identifiable by an exhibit number. So do we have an
6 exhibit number on that? That's my question.
7 MR. MEITL: That would be Government's
8 Exhibit 25.
9 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 25.
10 Thank you. All right. Got it.
11 Q. (By MR. ROSE) Sir, you went and you downloaded
12 all my pictures. I can't click on these pictures
13 and download them as quick as the computer did that
14 you was on, sir. Do you deny that?
15 A. I did not enter a Google account of yours --
16 Q. That would be illegal, huh? Right?
17 THE COURT: You've got to let him finish.
18 A. I did not enter a Google account of yours. I
19 don't even know you to have a Google account. The
20 pictures that you are referring to were taken off
21 your phone after it was examined by the Cellebrite
22 device. I'm not really -- I really don't even what
23 a Google account is.
24 Q. (By Mr. Rose) You're right, sir. They were
25 taken off my phone, sir, but these pictures were in

176
1 my SIM card. Now, people, I don't want nobody
2 thinking I got a crazy government conspiracy how
3 people -- how y'all can go into people's phones,
4 because you got to have search warrants to do that.
5 But I can prove the day Cesar got busted, eight
6 hours later -- no, no, no. Yeah, eight hours later,
7 somebody went into my phone and saved the pictures
8 off of my SIM card to the phone itself; therefore,
9 when I was to get arrested, you or whoever knew I
10 would have on my phone pictures, pictures of guns,
11 pictures of them in evidence --
12 THE COURT: Now I understand. Let him
13 explain. Let him answer, because that sounds like a
14 question.
15 A. I did not plant any evidence on your phone.
16 I'm not really for sure even how one would do what
17 you are saying I did. I don't even know you to have
18 a Google account or anything -- I am really not --
19 I'm confused as to what you are saying.
20 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Excuse me, sir.
21 A. As far as if something was saved on the SIM
22 card --
23 Q. Sir, your --
24 A. -- the Cellebrite does examine the SIM card.
25 Q. So if there's pictures --

177
1 THE COURT: Stop. Let him finish.
2 A. You made a reference that they were saved on a
3 SIM card. Part of the options when you are
4 downloading the phone is to select you want to
5 download what's on the phone, what's on the SIM
6 card, what's on the SD card, things like that. So
7 that can certainly be recovered from the SIM card.
8 But I did not go into an account and plant pictures
9 remotely onto your phone so that you would then be
10 arrested in possession of it.
11 Q. Sir, I didn't mean it to sound like that.
12 Those pictures were already on my SIM card. It says
13 the file source and where the picture came from and
14 where it got saved to on here. This is y'all's
15 evidence. On June 27th, the same day Cesar got
16 busted, you went into my -- a Google account --
17 anybody with MetroPCS has a Google account, sir.
18 You are very electronic savvy. I have all your
19 credentials in here. You are very electronic savvy,
20 sir, very much. So, please, Mr. Wilson, like I
21 said, you are very smart. You went on there and
22 transferred the pictures that says it on here,
23 somebody transferred the pictures electronically
24 on -- from my SIM card to the memory of the phone.
25 MR. MEITL: Your Honor.

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1 THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Meitl?
2 MR. MEITL: If I may, I think we are
3 trying to give Mr. Rose as much leeway. I would
4 object that this has nothing to do with guilt or
5 innocence. This goes to the validity of evidence.
6 THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to sustain.
7 I think he can use that kind of theory for
8 credibility issues, but we've asked it over and over
9 and over again. You are now repetitive. He's told
10 you he didn't do it. That's his position. You say
11 he did. Move on.
12 MR. ROSE: Okay.
13 Q. (By Mr. Rose) So back to these text messages.
14 Did you go into my phone during these text messages?
15 A. No.
16 Q. So why does the phone say at 8:00 at night you
17 went in there and looked at Slow Poke's messages and
18 you accidentally clicked on some letters, and when
19 you exited out it saved those letters?
20 A. Sir, I researched this during the break. The
21 time stamp that he is referring to is 20:02 and
22 20:03, which would be 8:02 and 8:03 p.m. That time
23 stamp is GMT, Greenwich Mean Time. Greenwich Mean
24 Time is five hours later, so that would be 3:02 p.m.
25 Mr. Rose was traffic stopped by Dallas Police

179
1 officers at 3:30 p.m. He still had possession of
2 his phone at 20:02 GMT.
3 THE COURT: And GMT is the time generally
4 in what country?
5 THE WITNESS: In London.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Mr. Wilson, this is a Texas cell
8 phone number, cell phone towers, everything is cell
9 phone logistics to Texas. Now, what you are saying,
10 would be -- it sounds good and it's a very -- what
11 you are saying is great. But let me tell you
12 something, sir, explain this to me, how come at 4:00
13 I got text messages of somebody texting me saying,
14 it's 4:00, where you at and it's 4:00 on the GMT
15 time. Can you please explain that?
16 A. All I can tell you is on the text messages it
17 says on the page that you are looking at, GMT minus
18 five. The Cellebrite uses GMT because it's a
19 universal time zone. I can't specify -- or I can't
20 explain why certain text message says a certain
21 time. All I can tell you is that the Cellebrite
22 instrument in most forensic devices utilize GMT time
23 because it's a universal time zone.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, we have covered
25 this. I want you to move on to another topic. We

180
1 have covered it. I know what your position is, the
2 jury knows your position and he knows your position.
3 MR. ROSE: What I am saying ma'am, is this
4 GMT time, this --
5 THE COURT: Everyone knows your point.
6 MR. ROSE: No. When the guy is texting me
7 and says, bro, it's 4:00, where you at?
8 THE COURT: You have already made that
9 point. I want you to move onto another topic.
10 MR. ROSE: These are past records.
11 THE COURT: Another topic.
12 MR. ROSE: You think somebody knew about
13 the GMT and that they knew it in advance?
14 THE COURT: You can argue it.
15 MR. ROSE: It's not argument, it's the
16 truth.
17 THE COURT: Understood, but you will be
18 able to argue it. What you are doing now is going
19 over and over and over the same point. So I want
20 you to move to another point. New point.
21 MR. ROSE: I'm just arguing it, ma'am.
22 THE COURT: New point.
23 MR. ROSE: All right. All right.
24 Q. (By Mr. Rose) We've discussed when you
25 confiscated my phone, we discussed that. We

181
1 discussed when you gave it back to me. We discussed
2 the procedure. We discussed the times. We
3 discussed who had my phone, who was in possession of
4 my phone, who could have went into my phone. Where
5 was the phone we discussed all of that. When did my
6 phone first get looked into, we discussed that.
7 I would like to turn to Exhibit-- these are
8 pictures taken out of my phone. And one of them,
9 the picture of my Google account, password attempt.
10 THE COURT: So this is part of
11 Government's Exhibit 25, Mr. Meitl, likely?
12 MR. MEITL: Likely.
13 THE COURT: A picture from the cell phone.
14 MR. MEITL: I'm not positive what he's
15 looking at.
16 THE COURT: Is that where it came from,
17 the CD?
18 MR. ROSE: I'm looking for my exhibit
19 list, because I have all of the evidence in front of
20 me.
21 THE COURT: That's okay. Go ahead with
22 your question.
23 Q. (By Mr. Rose) On my exhibit list, it shows a
24 picture. And the picture shows like, I guess, a
25 password attempt change to my Google account,

182
1 correct? Did you take that picture?
2 A. All the pictures that were on your phone were
3 saved either on a SIM card, an SD card or some type
4 of media linked to that phone. There's no
5 options -- you can't pick and choose when you
6 download a phone using these forensic devices, you
7 select you want all pictures, all videos, all MMS,
8 all SMS, things like that. I can't say I want to
9 only get these pictures. It just simply captures
10 everything that's available on the phone. Sometimes
11 things won't be compatible on cheaper phones or
12 newer phones that doesn't have the software up to
13 date. You may only can get text messages and
14 contacts. It won't download pictures, videos,
15 music, things like that. So each device is separate
16 for what you can get from it, but you can't pick and
17 choose. It simply copies every picture that's on
18 the phone to the examination report. That's how it
19 works.
20 Q. Okay. I've got the picture, which is
21 Exhibit 5, page 9 of 13, and there's a picture of
22 phone identity. It's a picture apparently you took
23 from your cell phone taking while you were looking
24 at my cell phone.
25 A. Oh, yes. I know what that is. Sometimes on

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1 the examination report it won't show the MDM, the
2 mobile data number, which is just the phone number.
3 So I noticed on the examination report that it
4 didn't show his number. It didn't show 214-710 --
5 MR. ROSE: Sir.
6 THE COURT: Let him finish.
7 A. -- 0681.
9 A. And since that was important because he was in
10 text records, before I actually returned the phone
11 to him, I took a picture on the phone property
12 screen that would show that the phone number
13 associated with that device was 214-710-0681. I
14 then made that attachment to my report so that I --
15 just to further document that that phone was
16 associated with that number.
17 THE COURT: Agent Wilson, you said you
18 knew what he was talking about, and he called it
19 Exhibit 5. What exhibit are you referring to?
20 THE WITNESS: It's just my offense report.
21 It's just my arrest report. I don't think it's been
22 entered into evidence.
23 MR. MEITL: It is part of Government
24 Exhibit 5, page 9.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

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1 MR. MEITL: As we discussed, Government
2 Exhibit 5 was only admitted for record purposes.
3 THE COURT: Thank you.
4 MR. ROSE: It's only admitted for record
5 purposes, but I wanted it to be admitted to show --
6 THE COURT: You want to move to have
7 Exhibit 5 admitted for all purposes?
8 MR. ROSE: I want to move to have all the
9 exhibits, all of the text messages, everything.
10 THE COURT: All of the text messages are
11 in evidence. Right now what you are looking at is a
12 search warrant with an affidavit and lots of
13 information that is pretty much hearsay. And the
14 government has offered that for record purposes,
15 which means as part of the record but it's not part
16 of the proof that's going to go to the jury. Are
17 you asking for it to be offered for other purposes?
18 MR. ROSE: I'm asking the search warrants,
19 I would like them to be offered as evidence, because
20 the search warrants, to my knowledge, is what gave
21 them the right to do what they did.
22 THE COURT: You know, we have to be real
23 specific so the record is real clear. Right now we
24 are just talking about Government's Exhibit 5, and
25 if you want that for all purposes -- do you?

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1 MR. ROSE: I would like to have that.
2 THE COURT: I'm going to admit it for all
3 purposes, then, at your request. All right. Go
4 ahead.
5 Q. (By Mr. Rose) And this is Exhibit 5 I have in
6 my hand right here. But the empty baggies with the
7 clear crystal substance that you said was recovered
8 on the road, sir, there's no recollection of that --
9 it's not in evidence? Is there any drugs in that
10 envelope right there? Are there really drugs in
11 that envelope?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. But we can't see them.
14 A. I'm not for sure the procedure on that. But
15 the reason that they weren't immediately submitted
16 was it was such a small quantity we weren't going to
17 file like a state case on this. So Dallas Police
18 Department retained custody of this in their
19 property room. When we saw that Mr. Rose was going
20 to trial, I met with the Dallas detective, I
21 obtained -- they checked it out of their property
22 room because I can get -- because DPS runs the lab
23 and I work for DPS. If we have a trial coming up
24 real quick, they can normally prioritize a lab
25 result. So I obtained the methamphetamine, the

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1 marijuana, the scales, things that had been stored
2 in the DPD property room from a Dallas detective and
3 then submitted it to our lab for examination.
4 THE COURT: Is that what was recovered
5 from the car?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7 THE COURT: Not from the side of the road,
8 it's from the car.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. And I don't know if
10 Detective Darst just didn't keep it. I know he told
11 me that he found -- because he was one of the
12 officers that went back and was trying to find
13 things that had been thrown out. So I know he told
14 me that he did find some baggies and told me how
15 they were tied and that there was crystal residue.
16 But there was nothing -- there wasn't four ounces in
17 them or anything that would be substantial. It was
18 such a trace amount that I guess it was just
19 discarded or it wasn't retained.
20 Q. (By Mr. Rose) You used that as a reason to get
21 the search warrant.
22 A. One of many, including the text messages,
23 source information, your confession, the drugs found
24 in the car, information from the patrol officers,
25 your admission of throwing narcotics out. There was

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1 a large basis for the search warrant.
2 Q. When you first met with me, at first it was
3 hard for me to get a officer to acknowledge that you
4 jumped in the back seat of the car with me. When
5 they acknowledged that, I was happy. It was gold.
6 But there's no audio in the car. So as of right
7 now, it's my word against your word of what was said
8 in the back seat of that car. Did I ask for an
9 attorney off the rip -- did I say I think I need an
10 attorney present?
11 A. No, sir, absolutely not. I told you, in fact,
12 don't speak. Just listen to me. I will tell you
13 what's happening. I told you my name. I told you
14 that I had arrested Mr. Zarate, that I had seen you
15 in text messages, that you were being investigated
16 and that I would talk to you when we got to the
17 police station and we were going to the Dallas
18 Police Department to interview you. And then I
19 advised you of your warnings on video where I
20 advised that you could have an attorney present, and
21 you waived that.
22 Q. So you're saying in the back seat of the car
23 when I said, I need an attorney present, you said,
24 you have to wait three days to get arraigned. If
25 you want out today, you will talk with me and work

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1 with me, nothing is going to happen. Did you say
2 that?
3 THE COURT: Okay. That's not what it
4 is -- Mr. Rose.
5 MR. ROSE: That's a question.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Did you say that?
8 A. I absolutely did not say that.
9 Q. Did you ask me if I was high or under the
10 influence of any narcotics?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Do you feel -- or from your personal
13 experience, was I high or under the influence of
14 narcotics?
15 A. I don't believe so, no. You were certainly
16 someone who struck me as a drug user, but I didn't
17 believe you were high. You didn't display certain
18 symptoms and signs that I would see when somebody
19 was high on methamphetamine.
20 Q. What signs?
21 A. Pouring sweat, things like that. I didn't
22 believe you were high, no.
23 Q. Okay. Because from reading the transcript,
24 when we played the video earlier, as the video was
25 playing I was listening, but I was reading the

189
1 transcript. I wasn't looking at what was being said
2 and how the individual was acting on the screen. I
3 wasn't looking at the -- I hate to say it, but the
4 body composition of the face is sunk in. Let me ask
5 you this. You are experienced, you're a drug
6 officer. Just because you don't use methamphetamine
7 within the last two or three hours or the same day,
8 is the effects of being an IV drug user, do those
9 effects stay in your system for two, three, four,
10 five days, even a month after your last use?
11 A. I wouldn't think so. I certainly don't have
12 medical training on how long effects of certain
13 drugs stay in your system. But my understanding, as
14 far as methamphetamine, that it was not something
15 that would stay in your system for several days, no.
16 Q. Okay. So to -- you're telling me no, but then
17 you just said you don't have medical training to be
18 able to tell if somebody is actually under the
19 influence. Did you give me a Breathalyzer? Did you
20 give me a urinalysis? Did you make me walk the
21 line, touch my nose? Did you do anything --
22 THE COURT: Mr. Meitl.
23 MR. MEITL: Objection. This has nothing
24 to do with guilt or innocence.
25 THE COURT: I will let him answer this

190
1 question.
2 A. No, I didn't do anything like that.
3 THE COURT: I want you to wrap it up.
4 You're going to get another chance to question him.
5 You can call him, you can question him. I believe
6 he's coming up again. Is that right, Mr. Meitl?
8 THE COURT: So maybe this will help us get
9 off some of the same things you are going over. I
10 will let you ask more questions, then I want to move
11 over to the government's next witness. You will get
12 an opportunity to ask him more questions if you
13 decide to.
14 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Okay. Sir, when you jumped in
15 the back seat of that car -- just yes or no -- did
16 you tell me, if you are a small fish, if you are a
17 small fry, if you are not about anything, I can't do
18 anything with you?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Okay. Sir, I believe -- and I remember you
21 saying that to me. You told me, you coerced me to
22 talk big, to be something I'm not.
23 A. No, sir, I did not.
24 Q. I named things off in that video. Do you
25 believe what I said to be true, every word I said to

191
1 be true?
2 A. There was things that I knew from the
3 investigation already. I knew that Ms. Hooker
4 supplied you large quantities of methamphetamine on
5 a daily basis. I knew from the text --
6 Q. Sir, sir, I don't want to interrupt, and I
7 would be objecting right now. This is a yes-or-no
8 question. Did you believe everything I said in that
9 video to be true?
10 A. I did not believe you were 100 percent honest
11 in that video, no.
12 Q. Do you believe I'm a dangerous person?
13 A. Absolutely.
14 Q. If you believe that, why would you let me go,
15 if you honestly believed that?
16 A. I mean, there's certain priorities that happen
17 in a case like this. We are investigating 30, 40,
18 50 people. We're always looking for additional
19 information. Everyone I work with as a source, as a
20 cooperating defendant, as a cooperating individual
21 is not a great person. We don't have, you know,
22 the -- in a perfect world, you would have a nun as
23 your informant, but you don't have people like that
24 in the real world. You work with people that are
25 gang members --

192
1 Q. Sir, a nun as an informant is not a perfect
2 world --
3 THE COURT: You are going to have to let
4 him finish.
5 Q. (By Mr. Rose) I mean, I'm a man of god, and a
6 nun as an informant is not a perfect world.
7 THE COURT: He's answering it. Let him
8 answer it. Go ahead.
9 A. So I mean, you frequently work with people that
10 have extensive histories that are violent, they are
11 not people that you would choose to work with, but
12 that's how you get information on groups. That's
13 how you solve major crimes and how you get
14 information intelligence all the time. I have
15 CAPERS detectives contact me all the time about
16 homicides, robberies, kidnappings that we have
17 information on because of the sources that we have.
18 As far as letting Mr. Rose go that night, under
19 one gram state jail felony in Dallas County would be
20 a, just guessing, normally around a 1- to
21 5,000-dollar bond. It would be something you would
22 be out on probably within one day. So it wasn't
23 that he wasn't get out -- I mean, he would be out
24 very quickly on that charge. So me and my boss
25 viewed it as more advantageous to let him go, see if

193
1 he cooperated, see if he ended up cooperating
2 against people who were high priority targets, if he
3 could solve any major crimes, things like that.
4 That didn't materialize, and he stopped contacting
5 me, and we never established him as a cooperating
6 individual.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Rose.
8 Q. (By Mr. Rose) I mean, that was a very, very
9 long explanation as to why you would -- if you felt
10 I was a dangerous person you would let me go, sir.
11 A. It was a complicated --
12 Q. You would compromise the society, you would
13 compromise civilians to get information is what you
14 are saying?
15 THE COURT: I think this has been asked
16 and answered. He just answered that in a lengthy
17 answer. So let's ask another question, and then we
18 will get Agent Wilson off the stand for right now
19 and move on with the government's case. What's your
20 next topic?
21 MR. ROSE: Well, I was -- he just told --
22 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Mr. Wilson, you just told the
23 jury the reason why you let me go is because my only
24 charge was a possession charge, very small
25 possession charge, correct?

194
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. But the search warrant you write up, you say I
3 was arrested for possession of a controlled
4 substance and tampering with evidence, which is a
5 felony, a felony, a TDCJ felony, tampering with
6 evidence is a very stiff charge. Why didn't you
7 tell them that? That's -- apparently, if I was
8 arrested, because I was never fingerprinted, booked
9 in, read my Miranda rights or anything by any Dallas
10 Police Officer.
11 THE COURT: Let him answer the question.
12 A. Tampering with evidence is a felony. We
13 certainly could have charged him with that, based on
14 the officer's personal observations of him throwing
15 things out, things of that nature, the evidence that
16 was all over his person, all over the floorboard,
17 all over the headrest, things of that nature. The
18 possession charge is a felony as well. Any amount
19 of meth under state law is a felony but it's a state
20 jail felony. It's the lowest felony.
21 The nature of prosecution in Dallas County,
22 both those charges would have been very small bond
23 amounts, generally speaking, that he would have been
24 out on in the next day or two. And so I mean, we
25 were willing to give him a chance to see if he would

195
1 cooperate against high priority people, leaders,
2 high-ranking members in ABT, Brandon Crow, people
3 who were moving large, large amounts of
4 methamphetamine, things like that. That's what we
5 do. We deal with criminals to flip them to more
6 criminals. That's what we do.
7 Q. You were told I was a supplier of
8 methamphetamine, pretty much a large supplier of
9 methamphetamine, correct?
10 A. Yes. In my book, anyone that's buying a
11 quarter-pound a day --
12 Q. Thank you.
13 A. -- that's a big quantity to me.
14 Q. Yes, sir. What would you say if I tell you in
15 a 7-month period, I have 14 documented run-ins --
16 and I know that's bad, ladies and gentlemen -- but
17 I've got 14 documented run-ins with the law, all
18 traffic violations. And out of 14 of them, not once
19 did I have drugs on me, not once did I have any
20 money on me, and not once did I have guns on me,
21 sir. 14 run-ins, that's once every two weeks I'm
22 getting pulled over. They're searching the car.
23 I'm going to jail for not having my driver's
24 license. I had a license, I just didn't have my
25 wallet on me. Y'all have sent me to jail, y'all

196
1 have harassed me over and over, sir. What would you
2 say -- shouldn't somebody who is a drug dealer
3 getting pulled over once every two weeks they would
4 have a substantial amount of drugs, guns or money on
5 them?
6 A. This is the only encounter I ever had with you
7 personally, so I can't speak to the other occasions
8 that you are saying you were pulled over. I dealt
9 with you on this one incident, and that's it.
10 That's all I have personal knowledge of.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, at this point I'm
12 going to let Agent Wilson step down. I know you
13 have a lot of questions for him.
14 MR. ROSE: I've got a lot.
15 THE COURT: I know you do, and I'm going
16 to let you ask most of them, assuming they are
17 proper. But right now, given the fact that he was
18 really just up here now to get some evidence in, I
19 have let you go way beyond the scope of the direct
20 examination, which is within my discretion but not
21 really in the Rules of Evidence. I will let him
22 step down and let the government call their next
23 witness, and you will get a chance to talk to him
24 again.
25 All right. You may step down, Agent.

197
1 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Judge.
2 THE COURT: Call your next witness,
3 please.
4 MR. KULL: Call Christian Ledbetter.
5 MR. MEITL: Your Honor, if I may go get
6 the witness?
7 THE COURT: Yes, please.
9 THE COURT: If you will come up here to be
10 sworn in, please.
11 (Witness sworn.)
12 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Please state and
13 spell your name for the court reporter.
14 THE WITNESS: It's Chris Ledbetter,
15 L-E-D-B-E-T-T-E-R.
16 MR. KULL: May I proceed, Your Honor?
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 CHRIS LEDBETTER,
21 BY MR. KULL:
22 Q. How are you employed?
23 A. I work with the Texas Department of Public
24 Safety.
25 Q. In what capacity?

198
1 A. I'm a special agent.
2 Q. And how long have you been doing that?
3 A. I've been with DPS for about 19 years. I've
4 been a special agent for about ten years.
5 Q. What do you do as a special agent with DPS?
6 A. I am assigned to the North Texas Electronic
7 Crimes Task Force in Secret Service building over in
8 Irving, and I do computer and cell phone forensics.
9 Q. Okay. And is that what you do on a daily
10 basis?
11 A. Yes, it is.
12 Q. Do you know Special Agent Eric Wilson?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. Okay. And did he ask you to review a
15 Cellebrite report?
16 A. Yes, he did.
17 Q. Okay. And for what purpose?
18 A. To just review dates and times to verify they
19 were correct.
20 Q. Okay. And let me, in the book there in front
21 of you, it's already been admitted, but there's an
22 Exhibit Number 25, a report for a Casey Rose cell
23 phone. Have you had an opportunity to review that
24 prior to your testimony today?
25 A. Yes. Yes, I have.

199
1 Q. And if you will look at Government's Exhibit 6
2 through 22. I'm going to ask you if you recognize
3 those exhibits.
4 A. Okay. Yes, they look like they were text
5 messages taken from a Cellebrite report.
6 Q. This is from the Cellebrite report that has
7 already been admitted into evidence as Government's
8 Exhibit 25?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. KULL: Judge, at this time we would
11 move to admit text messages, inclusive, 6 through
12 22.
13 THE COURT: Okay. And those are part of
14 Government's Exhibit --
15 MR. KULL: All of them are in 25.
16 THE COURT: Right.
17 MR. KULL: Every single one of them. And
18 these have been culled out because Agent Wilson will
19 testify about them later with regard to what they
20 mean.
21 THE COURT: And when you say 6 through 22,
22 that would be chronologically?
23 MR. KULL: It is.
24 THE COURT: Okay. Any objection?

200
1 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 6 through
2 22 as part of Government's Exhibit 25 are admitted;
3 that's 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 -- I've lost count. 6 through
4 what?
5 MR. KULL: 6 through 22 inclusive.
6 THE COURT: 6 through 22 inclusive. Go
7 ahead.
8 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Would you look at Government's
9 Exhibit 27 there in front of you and ask if you
10 recognize that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And what is that?
13 A. It was a -- it was a photo that was taken off
14 the phone that Agent Wilson downloaded.
15 Q. That came from the Cellebrite report?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 MR. KULL: Move to admit Government's
18 Exhibit 27 at this time.
19 THE COURT: Any objection?
21 THE COURT: Pardon?
22 MR. ROSE: No.
23 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 27 is
24 admitted.
25 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Now, we also asked you -- or did

201
1 you also find some -- on the Cellebrite report, did
2 you find some photographs of some weapons?
3 A. Yes. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Now, describe for us what metadata is.
5 A. Basic term for metadata is it's data about
6 data. That's probably the simplest way to describe
7 it.
8 Q. So for example, when we are showing the jurors
9 some of the contents of the Cellebrite report and
10 refer to something as metadata, what are we looking
11 at?
12 A. Basically if you have a picture or video,
13 that's basically data, even though you are seeing a
14 picture, that's still ones and zeros. Metadata is
15 just data about that data. So say it's an image,
16 you will get pixel size, possibly the camera type,
17 you know, any kind of settings that were set on the
18 phone, the camera, dates and times, all that kind of
19 stuff, that's metadata.
20 Q. Did you also have the opportunity to review
21 from the Cellebrite report in electronic copy,
22 Government's Exhibit 25, a video?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And have you had the opportunity to
25 watch that video today?

202
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. If you will look in your exhibit book there in
3 front of you to Government's Exhibit 29, I'm going
4 to ask you if you have had an opportunity to review
5 the video that was downloaded on the Cellebrite
6 report.
7 A. Are you asking me if I did review it?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. And does the video that's represented in
11 Government's Exhibit 29 an accurate representation
12 of what you reviewed on the Cellebrite report?
13 A. Yes, it is.
14 Q. Has it been changed or altered in any way?
15 A. No.
16 MR. KULL: Judge, at this time we would
17 move to admit Government's Exhibit 29.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Kull, if you will just
19 remind me, what is it a depiction of exactly?
20 MR. KULL: This is going to be one of the
21 videos that was taken off of Mr. Rose's phone, Your
22 Honor. It shows him shooting the weapon.
23 THE COURT: Any objection to Government's
24 Exhibit 29.
25 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am, I would object to

203
1 all of it. They got it illegally.
2 THE COURT: Given the government's stated
3 purpose of connecting this up as something that was
4 taken off the cell phone, I will take that in good
5 faith and admit Government's Exhibit 29.
6 MR. KULL: Judge, may we publish 29 to the
7 jurors?
9 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Just so we are clear, this is
10 the way it came out. Is there any way to flip the
11 video, because we are going to see it sideways. Is
12 there any way to flip the video?
13 A. Probably not with this player. You would
14 probably have to download a different player that
15 could possibly rotate it.
16 (Video played.)
17 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Was there some -- was the date
18 and time associated with that video?
19 A. Yes, there was.
20 Q. Okay. Can we pull up the Cellebrite report,
21 please, Exhibit 25?
22 Can we pull up the -- we're going to go the
23 video section, please.
24 Do you see item entry number 5 down there?
25 A. Yes.

204
1 Q. Okay. It says for record purposes it's -- the
2 five is in the left-hand column and the video -- I
3 don't know what you call it. What do you call that,
4 the identifier?
5 A. File name.
6 Q. The file name is CAM00006.MP4?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is that the video of the individual shooting
9 the firearm?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And what's the date and time on that?
12 A. Looks like it's 3/7/2014, 18:39:40 seconds.
13 Q. Does that 14 represent anything?
14 A. 14 would be the year, 2014.
15 Q. Okay. And that would be prior to -- I know it
16 sounds silly, but that would be prior to July 29,
17 2014.
19 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the federal charge
20 of an unlawful possession of a firearm by felon?
21 A. I'm not familiar with it.
22 MR. ROSE: Object, Your Honor. This dude
23 is for the Cellebrite report.
24 THE COURT: Hold on a second.
25 Overruled.

205
1 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Are you familiar with that
2 charge and when you have to be in possession of that
3 firearm?
4 A. I'm familiar with it. I don't have it
5 committed to memory, but yes, I am familiar with it.
6 Q. Okay. That's fine. Now, were there also --
7 can we go to the images section, please.
8 With regard to several photographs that were
9 taken, let's go ahead and look at these first before
10 we pull them up in your book. You have hard copies?
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. If you will look at Government's Exhibits 31
13 through 39.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. Let me ask you just a couple of questions about
16 those photographs, please.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. You and I have reviewed these photographs
19 before we came to court, correct?
21 Q. Where were these photographs taken from?
22 A. The Cellebrite report from the phone that was
23 downloaded by Special Agent Wilson.
24 Q. Directly from the Cellebrite report?

206
1 Q. Have these been changed or altered in any way
2 since they have been presented in court in the
3 exhibit book there and the hard copies of what we
4 are about to see on Government's Exhibit 25?
5 A. No, they have not.
6 Q. Let's look at Government's Exhibit 31.
7 THE COURT: Is this in evidence?
8 MR. KULL: I'm sorry. Can I go ahead and
9 move to admit.
10 THE COURT: 31 or 32 -- 31.
11 MR. KULL: 31 through 39 inclusive.
13 MR. ROSE: I object. I've clearly shown
14 him to go through my phone without a warrant. I
15 object. That shouldn't be being shown. I shouldn't
16 be in this courtroom right now.
17 THE COURT: I know. And you have a
18 running objection to that, and I understand you also
19 have an objection to this. Overruled with a running
20 objection, noting your objection, Government's
21 Exhibits 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, and 39 are
22 admitted. Go ahead.
23 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Could we pull up -- let's see
24 the images of the Cellebrite, please? I need 16.
25 Can you enlarge that, please, 16 for me -- oh,

207
1 you can't. All right. Are you able to see -- when
2 I say this is a image from the Cellebrite report --
3 that's better, there we go.
4 Now, what's been marked as Government's Exhibit
5 31 for the book, is it the same picture that's on
6 that Cellebrite?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. Okay. To speed things along, I'm going to be
9 referring to the number in the left-hand column.
10 Describe for the jurors what the number in the
11 left-hand column is.
12 A. Number 16 is the order in which it was
13 downloaded and placed in the report. It's just
14 chronological order. That's the only thing.
15 Q. Chronologically placed in the Cellebrite by the
16 Cellebrite.
17 A. That's correct, yeah, it's all done in the
18 software.
19 Q. Is there metadata associated with Government's
20 Exhibit 31, which is Number 16 on the screen?
21 A. Yes, there is. It's in the center column.
22 Q. Tell us what that is, please.
23 A. It will have your resolution, which is just a
24 pixel count for the image and the pixel resolution
25 is under it. The camera make, which is a Samsung,

208
1 and the camera model and the date and time.
2 Q. What's the date and time?
3 A. April 11, 2014.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. At 4:23 and 50 seconds.
6 Q. Okay. Can we see 311 please, column 311.
7 Okay. What is in column 311 the same as
8 Government's Exhibit 32, page 1?
9 A. Yes. Yes, it is.
10 Q. Is there metadata associated with that
11 photograph?
12 A. Yes. Same location, center column, you've got
13 resolution, pixel, camera make, which this is an LG
14 phone, it's got the model, make and model, and then
15 the date and time.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. Which looks like 7:24:14.
18 Q. Okay. If you will look at Government's Exhibit
19 33, please.
20 Is that Government's Exhibit 42 -- I'm sorry,
21 is that Government's Exhibit 43?
23 Q. What's the metadata on that?
24 A. That's just pixel resolution, 1200 by 900.
25 Q. Does it show a file date time there on the

209
1 left?
2 A. It does. It's got the file name and then the
3 path of where the image was located, a source, the
4 file size, and then a date and time, 614 -- I'm
5 sorry, 6/27/14.
6 Q. Okay.
7 MR. ROSE: Can you ask him if that's our
8 time or Greenwich?
9 THE COURT: I'm sorry, is that an
10 objection? You can't talk back and forth like that.
11 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry.
12 THE COURT: Everything has to be on the
13 record.
14 MR. ROSE: I do object. Is that time, is
15 that Greenwich -- what's it called?
16 THE COURT: You want a clarification?
17 MR. ROSE: Yeah, is that American time or
18 is that a Swedish time?
19 THE WITNESS: Are you talking about GMT?
20 MR. ROSE: Right.
21 THE WITNESS: Greenwich Mean Time is just
22 a time zone which is zero. So when this phone was
23 downloaded, it was what we would call Central Time
24 Zone, which is what we are in, if you want me to
25 explain that, we can.

210
1 MR. ROSE: I would love for you to explain
2 that.
3 THE COURT: I will consider this a brief
4 voir dire by the defendant. I will allow him to ask
5 and you can clear it up. Go ahead.
6 THE WITNESS: Where we live, we are in the
7 Central Time Zone. So from March through November,
8 when you take the Greenwich Mean Time, which is
9 zero, zero offset, which is what all the time is
10 based off of in the world. So figure you're in,
11 say, Europe, you're in England, you're going to be
12 zero. When you come to Texas, depending on the time
13 of year, if you are March to November, you're going
14 to subtract five from that. If it's in November to
15 March, you're going to subtract 6 from that zero,
16 and that's how we come up with our time.
17 MR. ROSE: Can you explain something to
18 me?
19 THE COURT: Okay. No, Mr. Rose.
20 MR. ROSE: Why is there an 11-hour time
21 difference from there to here --
22 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, this is not the time
23 to do that.
24 MR. ROSE: -- not a five --
25 THE COURT: There is a time, and it will

211
1 be closing argument. Right now, I just gave you an
2 opportunity to do what we call voir dire, which is
3 to ask him a few questions about his testimony.
4 MR. ROSE: I will ask him when I get my
5 chance.
6 THE COURT: Back to you, Mr. Kull.
7 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Let's go to Government's Exhibit
8 34 now, which will be column 290.
9 Is that -- is that column 290 the same as
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And does it come with metadata?
13 A. That's correct, it does. On this one it has
14 the pixel resolution, camera make and model, date
15 and time, which is 6/26/2014.
16 Q. Okay. If we can go to -- if you look at
17 Government's Exhibit 35, column 51. Is what's in
18 column 51 the same that you have in Government's
19 Exhibit 35?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And metadata on that, please?
22 A. Yes. It shows a file name where it was
23 located, the source, the path, size, date and time,
24 3/720/14 and then 15:22.
25 MR. ROSE: Objection. Does it show

212
1 how -- are these pictures showing --
2 THE COURT: No, no, no.
3 MR. ROSE: I would like to know how that
4 picture got on my phone.
5 THE COURT: Overruled. You can't
6 interrupt him in the middle of his testimony.
7 Go ahead.
8 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Government's Exhibit 36, column
9 268.
10 THE COURT: That's all cross questions.
11 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Is Government's Exhibit 36 the
12 same as in Cellebrite column 268?
14 Q. Does it have metadata associated with that?
15 A. Yes. Resolution, pixel resolution, camera make
16 and model, date and time, May 25, 2014.
17 MR. ROSE: What time, sir?
18 THE COURT: Nope, you can't do that. It's
19 questions. Cross is the time you can ask questions.
20 If you have a specific objection, you can make it,
21 but you can't just do it to interrupt. So right now
22 Mr. Kull is on.
23 Mr. Kull.
24 Q. (By Mr. Kull) Then if I can get out of
25 Cellebrite -- well, just to be safe. Let's go to

213
1 Government's Exhibit 37, column 14. Is what's
2 contained in Government's Exhibit 37 the same as in
3 column 14?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. And then Government's Exhibit 38, which will be
6 column 15?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is what is in column 15 appropriately marked as
10 A. Yes, and they both have metadata both showing
11 file name, resolution, camera make and model and
12 date and time.
13 Q. Okay. Now let's look at -- we will just do a
14 couple of these, but Government's Exhibit 39 is
15 approximately 22 pages; is that right?
16 THE COURT: 39?
17 MR. KULL: Yes. 39 is 22 pages, Your
18 Honor. It's already been admitted.
19 THE COURT: Okay. It's a group of photos.
20 MR. KULL: It is, Your Honor, 22
21 photographs.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 Q. (By Mr. Kull) These were recovered from the
24 phone as well?

214
1 Q. They appeared at least -- and most of these
2 have the exact same person, maybe posing with other
3 people, but it's one male individual?
5 Q. Okay. Let's run through some of these, please.
6 Can we back out of Cellebrite and do
7 Government's Exhibit 39, please?
8 Special Agent Ledbetter, every single one of
9 these photographs was taken off a phone of -- the
10 Cellebrite given to of Casey Rose?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. If you will run through these just . . .
13 THE COURT: May the record reflect right
14 now we are just running through photographs that are
15 part of the Government's Exhibit 39.
16 MR. KULL: That's all I have, Special
17 Agent Ledbetter.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, you can go ahead and
19 ask questions.
20 MR. ROSE: Are you ready?
21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 MR. ROSE: If you don't mind, could you
23 pull those pictures back up that we were just
24 looking at?
25 THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to start

215
1 from the beginning of 39?
2 MR. ROSE: Well, let's look at the
3 pictures, I guess picture Number 16. It's got a
4 picture of two weapons. Not the pictures we were
5 just looking at, but I want the data and everything.
6 MR. KULL: If you could tell the paralegal
7 the column number.
8 MR. ROSE: Column number 16.
9 MR. KULL: This will be Government's
10 Exhibit 25, Your Honor, column 16.
12 BY MR. ROSE:
13 Q. Sir, what I make from these, the right-hand
14 side in the middle column on the very bottom, time
15 AND date stamp, okay, it says it was taken --
16 correct me if I'm wrong, it says it was taken on
17 April 11th, 2014 at 4:23 and 50 seconds.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. Is that our time? Because the Cellebrite
20 report down -- what I just was told by Agent Wilson,
21 he's smart, real good, he's good, he's good. I
22 think you're good, too, though, but I just need you
23 to answer this, because you handled Cellebrite
24 report. He said it was all downloaded GMT time,
25 five hours -- the time is five hours off. That's

216
1 what he said, and that covers his butt pretty good.
2 Is that true?
3 A. It's going to depend on the software that he
4 uses. Because the software that I use, which is
5 Cellebrite, we set it to where it's automatically --
6 it automatically changes depending on if we are in
7 the negative five or negative six. So the software
8 that he was using, you will have to take the time --
9 it doesn't have anything to do with the date, it's
10 time only, and you will subtract -- because it was
11 in April, you will subtract five from the four.
12 Q. So it's really taking it to about 11:00 at
13 night. Is that what you are saying?
14 A. No. The way I would read it, it was probably
15 taken April -- I'm getting old and need glasses --
16 April 10th at I would say 11 -- it would actually be
17 the day before at 11:00 at night, that's correct.
18 Q. Would all the pictures -- since you just said
19 that, would all of the pictures, sir -- he
20 downloaded this program at one time. Would all of
21 the pictures, then, they are all going to be the
22 same time. The time is going to be different or
23 there's going to be consistent with what you just
24 said?
25 A. Should be consistent -- from the data that was

217
1 on the phone, it's going to take that data from
2 what's on the phone.
3 Q. Okay sir. Let's go to the one above it in the
4 middle. Can you read that off for me? Does tell me
5 the real time?
6 A. Okay. If you take it's 2:29:58 in April,
7 you're going to subtract five from that. So do the
8 math. What is that.
9 Q. I don't know.
10 A. 9:00 -- say 9:29:58 on April 11th.
11 Q. The nighttime?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Man, would you scroll down to picture Number
14 13, just one picture down. There you go. Right
15 there, that car. Would you please read that time
16 off and tell me what time that's going to be then?
17 A. That will be 2:00 p.m.
18 Q. 2:00 p.m.?
19 A. You're going to subtract five from the seven.
20 Q. That will be --
21 A. 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon.
22 Q. 2:00 a.m.
23 A. 2:00 p.m.
24 Q. What you just told us --
25 A. You're going to subtract five, so you're

218
1 looking at 07:36:32, you subtract five --
2 Q. 07 is in the morning sir.
3 THE COURT: You've got to let him finish.
4 You've got to let him finish.
5 A. If you will scroll --
6 Q. Leave it right here.
7 A. It's not in 24-hour dates. It's 12, then goes
8 to 1 --
9 THE COURT: You've got to let him finish,
10 Mr. Rose.
11 MR. ROSE: I'm sorry. This is an expert.
12 THE COURT: You're not letting the expert
13 speak. So be quiet while he talks, please.
14 MR. ROSE: Let me show him again. Let me
15 show him some other pictures. He's good, too.
16 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Picture Number 22, please.
17 A. 22 on the --
18 Q. Picture Number 22. This is only 12-hour
19 increments you said. What is that?
20 A. Okay. Now that will be 24-hour time, so you're
21 going to subtract five from that. But what was the
22 phone that the other picture was taken with? Was it
23 with a Samsung?
24 Q. Sir, these were all downloaded by the
25 Cellebrite program. The middle column is not

219
1 changing. The only time it will change is when you
2 go to a picture -- I don't know more about the
3 program than you, sir, so please don't let me assume
4 that.
5 A. No, I'm just to explain that some times the
6 software uses, it will convert the times
7 automatically. That way, when you look at it, you
8 will get the accurate time it was put on the phone.
9 If it's downloaded in a 24-hour-time frame, which
10 means you are going to go -- once you get to 12, you
11 will go 13 through 20, all the way up to 24.
12 Q. And those are evening times.
13 A. That's correct. From 13:00 would be 1 p.m., so
14 14 would be 2.
15 Q. Are all of the pictures -- this is the -- I
16 just want to make sure, sir, because the Government
17 is precise. It isn't wishy-washy, it's precise.
18 That middle column right there says when the picture
19 was taken. Left-hand column says when the picture
20 was stored. Am I correct?
22 Q. Thank you. The middle column says when the
23 picture was taken, is that correct, and it says the
24 date and time it was taken; is that correct?
25 A. That's correct, if that time stamp is put on

220
1 that photo by the camera, phone, whatever device
2 took it. So as long as the time on the phone or the
3 device is correct --
4 Q. So what time are you saying this picture was
5 taken?
6 A. Which one.
7 Q. Let's go with the middle picture. It says
8 18:25?
9 A. 21, I would say that would be 1:00 p.m.
10 Q. Can it not be 6:25?
11 A. 6:25?
12 Q. Like this is military time. This GMT stands
13 for government military time.
14 A. No, it's Greenwich Mean Time is what GMT stands
15 for.
16 Q. No, it's not.
17 A. Yeah. Greenwich Mean Time is GMT.
18 Q. This is military time that we are reading.
19 A. You're right, that's military time. But GMT
20 stands for Greenwich Mean Time, which is a time zone
21 that is in Europe.
22 Q. I know exactly where it's at. I'm not stupid.
23 A. I'm just telling you, it's not military time.
24 It's Greenwich Mean Time. That's what GMT stands
25 for.

221
1 Q. And Americans are downloaded -- we're American
2 over here -- government is downloading -- hold on.
3 Let me get this right. The government is
4 downloading Swedish time?
5 A. No.
6 Q. We're downloading Greenwich time?
7 A. No. All the time in the world is based off
8 Greenwich Mean Time, which is zero.
9 Q. Greenwich is 11 hours -- their time zone is 11
10 hours from here. I'm not stupid.
11 A. I'm not saying you are. Greenwich time zone is
12 a time zone that is zero. That is what all time is
13 based off in the world. We are Central Time Zone.
14 We are either six or five hours behind Greenwich
15 Mean Time, and that's how we decide what time it is.
16 Q. So some of these pictures, when you -- I'm
17 going to let you know. That time is right on every
18 picture. You are not adding or subtracting May,
19 June, July times, because that time is right,
20 because I'm going through there and looking, and
21 it's daytime. And if you subtract five hours, it
22 will put it at nighttime. Will you scroll back to
23 the picture of the car? I'm not precise. I'm not a
24 lawyer. I'm just a man trying to represent himself.
25 Right here, those cars. That's 7:36. I took

222
1 this picture. I thought that Lincoln was a cop, all
2 right? So I took the picture. I took that picture
3 thinking, hey, man --
4 MR. KULL: I'm going to him testifying
5 versus asking a question.
6 THE COURT: Sustained.
7 MR. ROSE: I took that picture early in
8 the morning going to the doughnut shop. 7:36.
9 THE COURT: I am going to let him lay a
10 predicate for his question. Go ahead. You talked
11 about taking the picture. What's your question off
12 of that?
13 Q. (By Mr. Rose) What time was that picture
14 taken, sir?
15 A. According to the report, it was taken at
16 7:36:32.
17 Q. Minus five hours?
18 A. If the software was set up -- let me explain.
19 The software that I use and the software that
20 Agent Wilson uses come from the same company but
21 they are two different softwares. On my software,
22 you can go in and automatically set it so that when
23 it goes in and reads these times it knows what time
24 zone it's in, and it will adjust accordingly. So
25 when you look at those times, they are accurate.

223
1 You don't have to subtract five or six or whatever,
2 it's accurate.
3 Now, if Special Agent Wilson's software was set
4 up the same way, then, yes, those times would be
5 accurate, but I can't tell you how his software was
6 set up. All I know is that data went with that
7 picture and it's accurate. Now, the date will be
8 the same. If the time is off five or six hours,
9 that will have to be something he will have to
10 answer on how his software is set up.
11 Q. A while a ago -- if you will scroll down and
12 look at the two pistols. You told me the date was
13 wrong on there, that the date was actually the day
14 before because it was taken 11:00 at night. If you
15 will scroll down to the two pistols again. Right
16 here. I said, look at that time. You read it for
17 me. Will you please read it again and tell me what
18 you said before.
19 A. It's 4:23:50 on April 11, 2014.
20 Q. But you said it was actually April 10th and
21 11:30 at night. What's the difference of making
22 that time -- tell me what's the difference in that
23 one and the other one that you said?
24 A. It's all going to be dependent on how the
25 software was set up. If it wasn't set up to change

224
1 the time zone, then you're going to subtract the
2 five from that, and it would actually be April 10th,
3 11:23. The date will be the same, the time may just
4 be off five or six hours.
5 Q. I'm getting prosecuted in a government case,
6 and you are telling me that that picture wasn't
7 taken on that time and date stamp? I think it was
8 taken on that date. I'm not sure exactly if the
9 date stamp is 12 hour, 24 hour or if it's been set
10 for GMT time minus five or minus 6.
11 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Will you
12 repeat that, please?
13 A. I'm sorry. I know that the date is correct,
14 but I don't know if the time that is on there has
15 been already set to where it's set for the GMT time,
16 which would be minus five for that time of year, I
17 can't answer that.
18 Q. (By Mr. Rose) But the date would not be
19 correct if it was minus five.
20 A. Okay. If it's not -- if it's the actual time
21 and the GMT time hasn't been subtracted from it,
22 yes, it would make it April 10th right at 11:00 at
23 night instead of April 11th.
24 Q. Okay, sir. I'm sorry to be giving you a hard
25 time.

225
1 A. I'm trying to answer the best I can.
2 Q. This point I'm trying to make is enormous.
3 In my records, in the examination report, will
4 you please go to my text messages. They are the
5 same one -- this same examination report which is
6 Exhibit 25. Will you go back to the beginning of
7 the exhibit where it pulled up everything and go to
8 my text message reports. Go to text message 2153.
9 THE COURT: Yeah, we're going to need to
10 help out.
11 MR. ROSE: Well, it was in the SMS.
12 THE COURT: Hold on a second. Go ahead.
13 MR. ROSE: It's in the SMS.
14 THE COURT: Hang on.
15 MR. ROSE: I would like for you to please
16 go to number 2153.
17 THE COURT: And Mr. Meitl, could you help
18 me out, which exhibit is this of the government?
19 MR. MEITL: This is Government Exhibit 25,
20 and Mr. Rose has directed the paralegal to look at
21 the text messages and scroll down to row number
22 2153.
24 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Do we see it? 2153, it's
25 basically in the middle. Okay. The text message on

226
1 the end, it says the number of the text message,
2 2153. Then it has the number, which this is coming
3 from. It's coming from a number -- hold on. 2153
4 is coming from 972, that's the person sending it.
5 What that middle number is, I don't know. Maybe I
6 didn't answer my -- maybe I had my battery out
7 because I thought the feds were watching me, you
8 know, so maybe that's why that number was there
9 because it went to like a server to save it.
10 Look at the time. It says GMT minus five.
11 Will you please explain that time to me. It says
12 3:55:20. What time is that really in American time?
13 A. Since it says GMT minus five, you will take
14 that time and subtract five from it, because it's
15 telling you right there.
16 Q. It is telling me. Read to the end of it. Read
17 the message for me, sir. Will you please read that?
18 THE COURT: Which one, 2153?
19 Q. Will you read that message?
20 I will read it for you. It says, "I don't want
21 to do this, so I will give you to the top of the
22 hour to bring it out. That's 4 on the dot. After
23 that, I hope you either have a fast car or a great
24 lawyer." 3:55, 4 on the dot, that's four minutes
25 he's giving me. That's 4 in the morning is what he

227
1 is saying. GMT time, that's nothing, man, that's
2 military time man. That's 4:00 in the morning. The
3 dude -- I didn't set this up. This dude --
4 THE COURT: Ask him a question.
5 Q. (By Mr. Rose) This is my question. Can you
6 explain that to me?
7 A. Explain the time zone?
8 Q. No. Can you explain when the dude is saying, I
9 will give you to four on the dot. That's four
10 minutes from then. And if we go to four on the dot,
11 look what he says. One minute. He says it right
12 there about three messages down. Incoming. He
13 says, you got one minute. It's four on the dot
14 American time; not GMT time, American time.
15 A. That's good, because that's a good explanation
16 right there. That shows that the software was
17 already set to compensate for the GMT time. So it's
18 telling you that time is correct and it's GMT minus
19 five on this right here. It doesn't apply to the
20 pictures because it doesn't say that.
21 Q. The pictures are irrelevant.
22 A. But the GMT minus five is telling you that's
23 it's already adjusted for the time and that's
24 correct.
25 Q. That time is correct. Would you mind scrolling

228
1 to my very last text messages. Just scroll down to
2 my last text messages. Okay. You are the expert
3 here. The very last text message. What time was
4 that -- it says, "Unsent Drafts." Can you explain
5 that to me?
6 A. It was just a draft that you typed up and was
7 never sent.
8 Q. What time was it typed up?
9 A. It was saved on the phone, looks like, 8:03.
10 Q. A.m. or p.m.?
11 A. It's going to be p.m.
12 Q. What about the one above it, sir?
13 A. Same thing, 8:02 p.m. Unsent. If it's a
14 draft, that means you started typing but it's never
15 done anything, it's just sitting there waiting to be
16 sent.
17 Q. Does it mean this, I was looking at my text
18 message and I accidentally -- on Bobby, and I
19 accidentally hit the comma and said, man, I don't
20 want to message Bobby, and I exited out, does it
21 automatically save it as a draft?
22 MR. KULL: I'm going to object to how the
23 phone works. He's an expert on the Cellebrite, not
24 on how the phone works.
25 THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained. You

229
1 can ask him about the time. You can ask him about
2 the time.
3 MR. ROSE: Right. I can ask a layman how
4 the LG works. You're right. He's an expert.
5 Q. (By Mr. Rose) So your expert opinion, that
6 time, that date, that stamp is right, and it's
7 telling you to subtract five hours if you were to go
8 to Greenwich wherever.
9 A. Greenwich Mean Time.
10 Q. Okay. That's not military time, you're right.
11 But 8:03 p.m. American time on that date is
12 what that says?
13 A. Central Time.
14 Q. Man, you're a Godsend. Thank you, sir. That's
15 all I got a for you.
18 BY MR. KULL:
19 Q. The software that was used by Agent Wilson, is
20 it the same software you use?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. And would you have to know how -- what
23 Cellebrite software he was using at the time he
24 downloaded this to be able to tell the jurors
25 whether it's minus five or plus five?

230
1 A. I'm not sure what version he was using at the
2 time, but it's just a setting that's in the device
3 that we use on how to -- if it will adjust and
4 accommodate for the minus five or minus six,
5 depending on the time of the year.
6 Q. Would that be reflected in the Cellebrite
7 report itself?
8 A. It should. It should on the leading -- on the
9 very first page it should let you know. If not, we
10 just have to look at the device itself.
11 Q. Okay. If we can go back to Government's
12 Exhibit 25, please.
13 And do you know where this front page would be
14 that you referring to?
15 A. I would say just click on the report that's
16 highlighted there, just double click on it to the
17 very first page.
18 Go back to the previous screen. There should
19 be a report, just a general report. You open it up,
20 and it will tell you -- it will explain the device,
21 and then it will have it broke down into text
22 messages, images, videos.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. Scroll down just a little bit. Yeah, that's
25 it. Go back up to the top.

231
1 Scroll down just a little bit.
2 Okay. I'm not seeing it on there because the
3 rest of it will just be the contents that were
4 extracted from the phone.
5 MR. KULL: Okay.
6 That's all I have, then, Judge. Thank
7 you.
8 MR. ROSE: Redirect?
11 BY MR. ROSE:
12 Q. Can we go back to the text messages, the same
13 text messages that we were just looking at and
14 Number 2153. I would like to just get your expert
15 opinion on 2153. Will you tell me -- you know what?
16 I apologize.
17 Go down to the last two text messages. Those
18 are the ones that are important. Will you tell me,
19 in your expert opinion, did you say the software has
20 already been flipped over to Greenwich whatever?
21 That's why that's down there, because it's showing
22 you need --
23 A. I would say that's correct.
24 Q. You're saying correctly that's 8:03 p.m. on
25 July 29th, that's your expert opinion.

232
1 A. Yes.
2 MR. ROSE: He's an expert. I'm done. I'm
3 good. Thank you.
4 THE COURT: Anything else?
6 BY MR. KULL:
7 Q. Well, that's what I'm getting at.
8 In order to confirm what that says, you have to
9 see that the front page of the report.
10 A. Probably to be 100 percent accurate, you need
11 to look at the device and look at the settings. I
12 don't use the same device that Special Agent Wilson
13 uses. I have a special device in my lab so I know
14 what the settings are on that device so I can
15 testify to that. I can't testify to what the
16 settings are on his. I can testify to mine, because
17 they change the time and format automatically.
18 MR. ROSE: Redirect one more time.
19 THE COURT: One more question. One.
20 MR. ROSE: I get to two redirects. This
21 is my second one, correct?
22 THE COURT: No, you don't get two
23 redirects. It's all discretionary with the Court,
24 and I've given you plenty of leeway. One question.
25 MR. ROSE: One question.

233
1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. ROSE:
3 Q. Go back up to 2153. And for the record, 2153
4 states again, I don't want to do this. I will give
5 you to the top of the hour to bring it out. That's
6 four on the dot. After that I hope you either have
7 a fast car or a great lawyer. That was sent at
8 3:55 a.m., correct, sir?
9 A. Correct.
10 THE COURT: Asked and answered. We have
11 already been over this.
12 MR. ROSE: That's it.
13 THE COURT: That's it.
15 THE COURT: Is it detective.
16 THE WITNESS: It's whatever you want,
17 special agent, whatever.
18 THE COURT: All right. Thank you very
19 much. I'm going to excuse you subject to potential
20 re-call with all the other witnesses. As you know,
21 you just can't talk about the case except with the
22 lawyers until it's over.
24 THE COURT: Thank you very much. You may
25 step down.

234
1 Who is next?
2 MR. KULL: We will call Daniel Meade, Your
3 Honor.
4 Your Honor, this witness has an
5 appointment tomorrow, so I would like to, if
6 possible, complete his testimony today.
7 THE COURT: Let's see how long it takes.
8 We will do our very best. All right?
10 THE COURT: If you will come on up.
11 Do you have any other witnesses, Mr. Kull,
12 that are here?
13 MR. KULL: I'm sorry?
14 THE COURT: Let's go ahead and get him --
15 see what we can do. Come on up.
16 (Witness sworn.)
17 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: State and spell
18 your name for the court reporter.
19 THE WITNESS: It's Daniel Meade,
20 M-E-A-D-E.
22 DANIEL MEADE,
24
25

235
2 BY MR. KULL:
3 Q. Will you please introduce yourself to the
4 jurors?
5 A. Yes, sir. I'm a special agent with the Bureau
6 of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Until
7 recently I was assigned to the Plano satellite field
8 office here in Texas.
9 Q. And what do you do?
10 A. When I was assigned in Plano, I investigated
11 federal violations of the federal firearms laws, as
12 well as narcotics laws. I have currently been
13 reassigned to a headquarters position in the digital
14 forensics branch.
15 Q. And describe for us your training and
16 experience for your position now.
17 A. In my current position?
18 Q. Yes, sir.
19 A. I've gone to the basic academy for ATF. The
20 first school is eight weeks, and then to the
21 advanced ATF academy which was 12 weeks.
22 I've also received training in the field of
23 interstate nexus of firearms, where we go to
24 Martinsburg, West Virginia, to our firearms
25 facility. There are tens of thousands of firearms

236
1 in their vault there that we can inspect and do
2 nexus determinations on those guns to see where
3 those guns are manufactured.
4 I have also gone to the advanced interstate
5 nexus school where we travel in the New England area
6 to several of the firearms manufacturing plants to
7 see how the guns are actually manufactured from
8 melted steel and made into a firearm.
9 For the digital forensics branch, I have
10 attained -- I have trained with ATF in the field of
11 cell phones, acquisitions, and I've completed my
12 certified computer examiner class through the CCE
13 examination to be certified forensically to examine
14 computers.
15 Q. Now, with regard to your nexus training,
16 describe for the jurors, when you say "nexus
17 training" what you mean.
18 A. One of the elements of federal law with respect
19 to the firearms violations is we have to show
20 interstate commerce of the firearm. So therefore,
21 we have to show that the firearm affected interstate
22 commerce or traveled in interstate commerce to be
23 present at its current location.
24 Q. Okay. And were you asked to do that with
25 several -- based on several photographs that were

237
1 retrieved from a cell phone of a person in this
2 particular case?
3 A. Yes, I was, at the request of Eric Wilson.
4 Q. Okay. And did you have the opportunity to view
5 photographs taken from a cell phone?
6 A. I did.
7 Q. Okay. Now, are you able to tell the make and
8 model of a firearm from a picture, itself?
9 A. If the picture is of good quality or clarity,
10 yes.
11 Q. Okay. And you have a general working knowledge
12 of weapons and make and models and that sort of
13 thing?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. So you are able to look at a photograph, and
16 even though you don't have a serial number you are
17 able to tell the make and model?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. If you can tell the make and model, you can
20 tell us where it was manufactured?
21 A. I can tell you with respect -- for instance, if
22 it was a Ruger, I can tell you that Ruger firearms
23 are manufactured in Connecticut, New Hampshire and
24 most recently North Carolina.
25 Q. Have you had the opportunity to look also at a

238
1 video that has been taken from that cell phone?
2 A. I did, yes, sir.
3 Q. That was marked as Government's Exhibit 29 in
4 the book in front of you. And you have a -- an eye
5 condition?
6 A. Yes. My kids brought home pinkeye, and I
7 contracted it this week.
8 Q. If you don't mind just putting on some rubber
9 gloves for the next people who touch the witness
10 book.
11 A. I'm sorry, what exhibit number?
12 Q. Exhibit 29.
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Have you had the opportunity to watch that
15 video?
16 A. I have.
17 Q. Okay. The person that has that item in their
18 hand, what is that item that they are firing?
19 A. It's a firearm that they are shooting.
20 THE COURT: And just -- excuse me,
21 Mr. Kull, the jury probably already remembers this.
22 But this is the one with the sideways video that
23 came from the cell phone?
25 THE COURT: I wanted to be clear we know

239
1 what we are talking about.
2 Q. (By Mr. Kull) It's the same video that comes
3 up sideways with the male in the blue jeans and
4 white shirt firing?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. For record purposes, describe for the jurors
7 what a firearm is.
8 A. A firearm is described by definition as a
9 weapon that is designed to or may readily expel an
10 projectile by the use of an explosive. It includes
11 the frame or receiver of that weapon. It also
12 includes a starter firearm, as well as a firearm
13 silencer or muffler or destructive device.
14 Q. Is there any doubt in your mind as to what the
15 item is in that individual's hand in Exhibit 29?
16 A. No, sir. I would say that's a firearm.
17 Q. Now, you prepared a report, which will be
18 marked as Government Exhibit 30. You can refer to
19 that report if you need to during your testimony.
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Is that report generated by you?
22 A. It is.
23 Q. And that was made in regard to the matters that
24 you are testifying about here today?
25 A. Correct.

240
1 Q. And your viewing of several photographs and
2 descriptions of weapons and then your tracing of
3 interstate nexus on those weapons?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And is that a summary of your working on this
6 particular case?
7 A. Yes. This was the description of all of the
8 firearms that I was able to surmise from the
9 photographs.
10 Q. Let's look at Government's Exhibit 31, please.
11 Can you describe for the jurors what firearms
12 we're looking at in Government's Exhibit 31?
13 A. Yes, sir. The firearm on the left -- and keep
14 in mind I was able to zoom in on these photographs.
15 The firearm on the left is a Bersa. I can't make
16 out the full model designation, but it's an
17 Ultra Compact 9-millimeter semi-automatic pistol.
18 And again, the serial number is unknown. These
19 particular firearms are manufactured in Argentina.
20 The firearm on the right in this picture is a
21 Kel-Tec Model P, as in Paul, F, as in Frank, 9,
22 9-millimeter caliber pistol semi-automatic pistol;
23 again, an unknown serial number. Kel-Tecs are
24 manufactured in Florida. As well, you can make out
25 the magazines for each respective firearm containing

241
1 ammunition.
2 Q. With regard to Government's Exhibit 32?
3 A. This particular firearm is a Bryco Model 48
4 .380 caliber semi-automatic pistol; again, the
5 serial number is unknown.
6 This particular firearm was manufactured in --
7 it could have been manufactured in either Nevada or
8 California. This manufacturer moved its business
9 from Nevada to California. And the Jennings firearm
10 name that you see on the side there, that would be a
11 brand name. Jennings is an older firearm, and they
12 bought the rights to be able to use that name on the
13 gun, like a Sears and Roebuck. It's a brand name.
14 Q. Government's Exhibit 33?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. You have two possibilities on this. Who could
17 be the model and make on this one?
18 A. It could be the previously described Bryco,
19 based on the silver slide. And it could also be one
20 of the later firearms that I have yet to describe,
21 which is a Taurus firearm.
22 Q. That would be in Government's Exhibit 35, the
23 second one could be?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. Let's look at 34, please.

242
1 THE COURT: Is this 34 or 35?
2 MR. KULL: 34 right now, Your Honor. We
3 are going in order of the exhibits.
4 THE COURT: I'm at 34.
5 A. 34, the firearm on the left, is going to be a
6 Taurus Model PT111 G2 9-millimeter caliber
7 semi-automatic pistol; again, the serial number is
8 unknown. The firearm was manufactured in Brazil.
9 And again, the importer is unknown. But most likely
10 the importer is Taurus International located in
11 Miami, Florida.
12 Q. And Government's Exhibit 35?
13 A. 35 is the top, long gun, which is a rifle. I
14 will start with that one. That's a Mossberg Model
15 715T, .22 caliber semi-automatic pistol with an
16 unknown serial number. Mossberg has a manufacturing
17 plant in Connecticut and New Jersey.
18 Just below that is a Bersa model Thunder.
19 Again, I can't -- I couldn't make out the full model
20 designation, but I was able to determine it was a
21 partial model number of a Thunder. It's a
22 9-millimeter semi-automatic pistol; again, serial
23 number is unknown. And again, Bersas are
24 manufactured in Argentina.
25 The bottom firearm is a Ruger, Model P97 .45

243
1 caliber semi-automatic pistol with unknown serial
2 number. And that would have been manufactured in
3 either Connecticut, New Jersey and most recently
4 they just opened a plant in North Carolina.
5 Q. All the weapons that you just testified about,
6 were any of those manufactured inside the state of
7 Texas?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. So what is your conclusion as to whether or not
10 these firearms that you have seen photographed have
11 traveled in interstate or foreign commerce?
12 A. To be present here in the state of Texas, they
13 would have had to have traveled in interstate or
14 foreign commerce.
15 Q. Do each of the weapons that you have observed
16 in the photographs we just viewed appear to you to
17 be firearms?
18 A. They do.
19 Q. Would they meet the same definition of firearm
20 that you just told the jurors about?
21 A. They do.
22 MR. KULL: Thank you, Your Honor. That's
23 all I have.
24 THE COURT: Did you offer 32 or 33?
25 MR. ROSE: I'm going to object to

244
1 everything.
2 MR. KULL: Those are previously --
4 MR. KULL: Hold on, Judge. Yeah, they
5 were previously offered and accepted, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Yes, 31 through 39. All
7 right. Any questions?
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. ROSE:
11 Q. The reason why you're saying where they are
12 from and that they traveled in interstate commerce
13 is because I'm assuming I'm being charged in Count 3
14 of the indictment, felon in possession of a firearm
15 and traveling in interstate commerce.
16 THE COURT: Well, he's not going to --
17 well, can you answer that question?
18 A. If you are being charged with 922(g)(1), which
19 is felon in possession of a firearm, one of the
20 elements that the government has to prove is
21 interstate nexus of the firearm.
22 Q. Correct. The gun that you seen that was being
23 discharged, what kind of gun was that?
24 A. I cannot tell from the video.
25 Q. You cannot tell if that gun traveled interstate

245
1 commerce or not?
2 A. I cannot tell from the video that that
3 particular gun -- it's similar to two of the
4 firearms in the pictures, but I can't say for
5 certain that that gun affected interstate commerce.
6 It's highly likely.
7 Q. Okay. Well, you're an expert. Being an expert
8 on weapons, you're not wrong, really, by your
9 assumption on these. Are you wrong about any of
10 these guns?
11 A. I am not wrong on any of the descriptions of
12 the firearms I was able to provide you.
13 Q. Okay. Well, once again, sir -- and I know
14 why -- I know why you are told to say certain
15 things.
16 THE COURT: That is not a question.
17 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Let's go back to Exhibit 31,
18 please.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, ask a question.
20 Q. (By Mr. Rose) In Exhibit 31, you said those
21 are two 9-millimeters. You said those are two
22 9-millimeters. Let me tell you about the clips,
23 sir, I'm not an expert on weapons --
24 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, Mr. Rose, Mr. Rose,
25 do you have a question?

246
1 MR. ROSE: Yes, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: What's the question?
3 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Is the gun on the left a
4 9-millimeter?
5 A. That would be the Bersa 9-millimeter.
6 Q. You said the ammunition that goes in those guns
7 are right there?
8 A. I said that there was ammunition in those
9 magazines.
10 Q. That fit those guns, correct?
11 A. I would assume they fit the guns, but I
12 couldn't say for sure.
13 Q. I'm not an expert. Those two clips, sir, to me
14 look different. Do those two clips look different
15 to you, the bullet size?
16 A. If they are different manufacturers of
17 firearms, the magazines will be different.
18 Q. Will the bullet size be different,
19 9-millimeter, will it be different?
20 A. It would be the same diameter, but it would
21 depend on whether or not it was a hollow point or a
22 round ball or -- ammunition does look different of
23 the same caliber.
24 Q. Lengthwise -- I'm not an expert, but you cannot
25 put that bullet on the right into the clip in the

247
1 left, can you not?
2 A. I -- I don't know if you can put those
3 magazines into those particular firearms.
4 Q. Not the magazines, the ammunition. The bullet
5 in the right clip, can you stick it in the clip of
6 the left?
7 A. I don't know what caliber those two ammunitions
8 are in that picture.
9 Q. You said those were 9-millimeters, sir?
10 A. I said the pistols were 9-millimeter.
11 Q. And the clips sitting right next to them --
12 THE COURT: He didn't say that.
13 Q. (By Mr. Rose) He didn't say that, but he said
14 there is ammunition to fit those guns. Those clips
15 are taken out of the guns. Look, they are taken
16 out. That's a .380, sir. That's a .380 Bersa. You
17 are close, it wasn't a 9-millimeter. You are an
18 expert. You need to be an expert.
19 THE COURT: Gotcha. Gotcha. Is that your
20 question. Do you have a question?
21 MR. ROSE: He's wrong.
22 THE COURT: That's not a wrong.
23 MR. ROSE: That's not a 9-millimeter,
24 that's a .380.
25 THE COURT: Are you going to ask him if

248
1 he's wrong. Is that the question?
2 Q. (By Mr. Rose) Are you wrong, sir?
3 A. I believe that to be a 9-millimeter Bersa.
4 Q. You assume that to be a 9-millimeter Bersa.
5 A. I believe it is a 9-millimeter Bersa.
6 Q. Do you believe that clip on the left goes into
7 the clip in the gun?
8 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, this is a technical
9 expert, and he's testified about -- you've
10 questioned, because he doesn't have it here, and
11 you're questioning whether or not how much the
12 weight the jury should give his testimony, if any.
13 But I just need a question, and it has to be
14 relevant. You have pretty much covered it. Is
15 there anything else you want to ask this technical
16 expert.
17 MR. ROSE: Yes. I know it's five o'clock.
18 THE COURT: I just want to make sure we
19 have covered your questions but we are not wasting
20 time.
21 Q. (By Mr. Rose) My basis for this charge, sir,
22 is I am being charged as a felon in possession of or
23 a firearm that traveled interstate commerce, and you
24 are the expert that is testifying about these
25 weapons, sir. And you are wrong about the gun on

249
1 the left, sir. You cannot be wrong about things
2 like this.
3 MR. KULL: I'm going to object, Judge.
4 He's testifying. I'm going to object to that.
5 MR. ROSE: I'm done.
6 THE COURT: Sustained. All right. May
7 this witness be excused?
8 MR. KULL: No objection from the
9 government.
10 MR. ROSE: That's all.
11 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to let
12 you step down. You are excused subject to potential
13 re-call. Just remember you can't talk about the
14 case until it's over.
18 THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, perfect
19 timing. We're going to go ahead and break for the
20 day. We will start up first thing tomorrow at 9:00.
21 Please remember not to talk about the case. We'll
22 see you in the morning.
23 (Jury leaves courtroom.)
24 THE COURT: Mr. Anderson, I am feeling the
25 pain of watching you sit on the hard benches for all

250
1 these hours. I will be glad to accommodate you if
2 you need any help in that regard, a cushion or
3 something.
4 MR. ANDERSON: I will be fine, Judge.
5 THE COURT: It's a long time to sit on the
6 benches out there.
7 Where are we, Mr. Meitl?
8 MR. MEITL: We have four witnesses, none
9 of them I anticipate being long. I never anticipate
10 them being long until we get to cross.
11 THE COURT: And Mr. Rose.
12 MR. ROSE: Ma'am, I'm feeling wonderful,
13 ma'am. I'm terrific. I feel good.
14 THE COURT: That's really not my question.
15 My question is, if they rest tomorrow, in the
16 morning or right after, are you ready to go?
17 MR. ROSE: Excuse me? What do you mean by
18 that?
19 THE COURT: If they rest, they are done
20 with their witnesses tomorrow morning or
21 midafternoon, are you ready to put your evidence on
22 or witnesses on?
23 MR. ROSE: I didn't know -- huh-uh. No,
24 ma'am.
25 THE COURT: You don't have anything?

251
1 MR. ROSE: I do --
2 THE COURT: You got to go.
3 MR. ROSE: Heck, yeah.
4 THE COURT: We can't take a break. I just
5 want to make sure that you understand you have to be
6 ready to go with no break. We're just going to
7 start with your witnesses after they are finished,
8 just so you know.
9 MR. ROSE: Only witness I got is Jose
10 Lucio, but I can still call others back.
11 THE COURT: As long as you are not wasting
12 time.
13 MR. ROSE: I am figuring this out, and I'm
14 doing a dang good job.
15 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, please stop arguing
16 with me. I want you to listen to me. The only
17 point here is that you are organized, ready, when
18 they rest, to go ahead and get started with whatever
19 case you have and also to make the point that, yes,
20 you can call witnesses. I'm just not going to let
21 you keep going over the same points like you did
22 today, over and over and over again. At some point
23 you're just going to have to stop asking the same
24 questions, but I will let you call witnesses, and I
25 know you've got some. Mr. Lucio.

252
1 MR. MEITL: We will have Mr. Lucio
2 available. I don't have anybody else I have been
3 told to make available as of yet, Judge.
4 THE COURT: Right. Anything else,
5 Mr. Rose?
6 MR. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. The video, the
7 confession video, I've said it was altered from the
8 beginning. Nobody believed me. I'm going to show
9 and prove tomorrow where it was altered at. And
10 after that, I don't know why I would still be with
11 this ball and chain on my leg after that.
12 THE COURT: And how do you plan to show
13 that it was altered?
14 MR. ROSE: I've taken -- I went back -- if
15 I had the money to have an expert look at it, then
16 that's what I would do, but I don't have the money.
17 Mr. Anderson ain't going to use the money. So with
18 that being said, I'm going to give my expert -- I'm
19 going to tell him how to do it. And maybe it's
20 criminal, but I know how to do stuff like that. I
21 will explain exactly how that video has been
22 altered.
23 THE COURT: Tell me how you are going to
24 do that.
25 MR. ROSE: Please let me do it tomorrow.

253
1 THE COURT: Mr. Rose, here's the problem.
2 MR. ROSE: These guys are real good, man.
3 THE COURT: Here's the problem, Mr. Rose,
4 is that you've wasted a lot of time with your
5 questions and your theories. Let me finish. I'm
6 not going to spend hours going through something
7 unless I have an idea that it's somehow relevant to
8 your defense. So I need some idea of what you plan
9 to do. Who is going to be your witness and how are
10 you going to do this?
11 MR. ROSE: I don't have a witness to do
12 that. I'm doing this myself. Okay. I will play
13 the video at certain spots, and we will see my mouth
14 talking and nothing being recorded. We're going to
15 see that. You seen that today.
16 THE COURT: I have not seen that today. I
17 don't know what you are talking about. Here's the
18 problem. Do you know where you're going to have
19 this cued up. Do you have the time already?
20 MR. ROSE: Of course I do.
21 THE COURT: Have you passed that over to
22 the government so they can get that ready for you.
23 MR. ROSE: Judge Boyle, I want you to
24 really understand where I'm coming from. The
25 government is trying to convict me for life.

254
1 THE COURT: But you're not going to --
2 MR. ROSE: I can't give that to them right
3 now.
4 THE COURT: You are not running that video
5 by yourself.
6 MR. ROSE: No, I'm not. Ma'am, please let
7 me tell her where to go in there.
8 THE COURT: You have to stop talking.
9 Stop talking. You have to give them to a chance to
10 get this ready, otherwise we will be sitting around
11 with you giving them this tomorrow and you having to
12 get ready for this. This is all about timing and
13 the Court's role in keeping this running
14 efficiently. You have to give them those times
15 today if you have them, because we're not going to
16 delay this case so that you can hold off and give
17 that to them and we have to wait for them to find it
18 tomorrow. Do you understand?
19 MR. ROSE: I have gotten them written down
20 sporadically. And through the deal I have circled
21 things and wrote times down. When I go back today,
22 I will sit down and write it down correctly and
23 write next to it what I want, what I'm looking for,
24 what I want the jury to look at.
25 I feel, Ms. Boyle, I have proven my point

255
1 that the officer has lied, not right -- I've got
2 more. I've got something, man, it's going to be
3 good tomorrow, because this is evidence, factual
4 evidence that I'm showing that he lied when he said
5 nobody went in my phone. I proved it.
6 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Rose, I don't want
7 to disappoint you, but I disagree with you. And we
8 will see what the jury thinks when we hear it all.
9 Right now, I don't think you have proven that. But
10 let's just see what the jury thinks. All I'm
11 telling you right now is, first thing in the morning
12 I want where on that video you want this cued up so
13 the government can be ready for it. And if you
14 don't, then we're really going to have a serious
15 discussion as to whether or not we will go through
16 with this what you say is evidence of the video that
17 shows you talking and -- or whatever it is you say
18 it shows. First thing in the morning, all right?
19 All right?
20 MR. ROSE: I'm going to do my best to get
21 ready, ma'am. But given my current circumstances of
22 where I'm at, sometimes situations arise. Okay? So
23 I cannot sit there and give you a guarantee that I'm
24 going to have everything written down and be ready
25 to go, but I can guarantee you this, you won't be

256
1 disappointed.
2 THE COURT: All right. I think we
3 finished this discussion.
4 Anything from the government?
6 THE COURT: If not, we will see you first
7 thing in the morning. Please be here by 8:30.
8 (Court in recess at 5:07 p.m.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

257
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 I, Shawnie Archuleta, CCR/CRR, certify
3 that the foregoing is a transcript from the record
4 of the proceedings in the foregoing entitled matter.
5 I further certify that the transcript fees
6 format comply with those prescribed by the Court and
7 the Judicial Conference of the United States.
8 This 27th day of June 2016.
10
11 s/Shawnie Archuleta
Shawnie Archuleta CCR No. 7533
12 Official Court Reporter
The Northern District of Texas
13 Dallas Division
14
15
16 My CSR license expires: December 31, 2016
17 Business address: 1100 Commerce Street

Dallas, TX 75242
18 Telephone Number: 214.753.2747
19
20
21
22
23
24
25


Casey Rose Jury Trial Volume 2

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Casey Rose Jury Trial Volume 2

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1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

JURY TRIAL - VOLUME 2

UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

PRO SE: CASEY ROSE, DEFENDANT

LAW OFFICE OF SCOTT M. ANDERSON

COURT REPORTER: SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, TX CCR No. 7533

proceedings reported by mechanical stenography,

SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, CSR/CRR

JURY TRIAL - VOLUME 2

SPECIAL AGENT ERIC WILSON

Cross-Examination (Cont'd) by Mr. Rose 23

Direct Examination by Mr. Kull 39

Direct Examination By Mr. Meitl 61

SPECIAL AGENT WILSON

Direct Examination by Mr. Meitl 92

Direct Examination by Mr. Kull 197

Direct Examination by Mr. Kull 235

Reporter's Certificate 254

SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, CSR/CRR

EXHIBITS ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE:

Government's Exhibit 2 103

Government's Exhibit 3 110

Government's Exhibit 4 114

Government's Exhibit 54 120

Government's Exhibit 1 123

Government's Exhibit 5 (record purposes) 127

Government's Exhibit 25 129

Government's Exhibit 2 (record purposes) 138

Government's Exhibit 48 142

Government's Exhibit 49 142

Government's Exhibit 50 142

Government's Exhibit 51 142

Government's Exhibit 52 142

Government's Exhibit 5 (for all purposes) 185

Government's Exhibit 25 (6 through 22) 200

Government's Exhibit 27 201

Government's Exhibit 29 203

Government's Exhibits 31 - 39 206

Defense Exhibit 1 156

SHAWNIE ARCHULETA, CSR/CRR

1 (In open court at 8:37 a.m.)

2 THE COURT: Good morning. Couple of

3 things -- is that a jacket you have on? Changed

5 MR. ROSE: No, ma'am, I didn't change my

6 mind. This is what I wanted to do. I wanted to

7 come in with short sleeves yesterday. That way

8 there are no surprises to the jury. That way

9 Mr. Meitl can't say, look at this man over here. He

10 looks really nice dressed like this, but let me tell

12 has tattoos and this and this. So I wanted to

13 explain that to the jury first. They're going to

15 THE COURT: Okay. Just so the record

16 reflects, you have a long-sleeved jacket on and a

17 long-sleeved white oxford shirt.

18 MR. ROSE: Correct.

19 THE COURT: Couple of things I wanted to

20 talk about. One was the transcripts and the

21 government's plan on the audio videotape. I have a

22 couple of thoughts on that. The transcripts, you're

23 going to have to lay a predicate. If you want to,

24 we could do that outside the presence of the jury

25 with Mr. Rose getting a chance to hear this, ask