Forgiveness and the Need to Introspect -

Part 1 | Mahatma Das

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important because i can i can guarantee you that
0:06
the behavior of one person could cause many different reactions in this audience
right now
0:15
and i'll give you an example this is quite interesting
0:21
9 11 when it happened remember how you when you heard the news
0:26
how were you feeling were you angry were you depressed did you want to join the
military and
0:33
fight terrorism were you screaming at um
0:39
people muslim people were you scream you know what was your reaction were you
sympathetic to them did you understand
0:46
why they might have done this we all had different reactions to one event
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right isn't that interesting so
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we say i'm angry because of this but that's not actually
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the reason you're angry that you're angry because you're angry
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that's a profound statement right you're angry because you're angry
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yeah and so levante brahman is saying
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you're not disturbed by the event you're disturbed by your reaction to the event
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and i'll explain this a little a little more deeply this is a very interesting point i didn't
know this until about a
1:36
year ago um i i started discovering
1:42
that that material life i didn't discover that material life is traumatic just you know
1:48
taking birth is quite a trauma in and of itself and so life in general is a bit traumatic
right
1:54
but some people go through very traumatic events like what's happening in ukraine
2:00
now uh war is very traumatic or
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um uh sometimes we even find that parents reject their children
2:13
uh they say i don't want you i don't love you i don't like you or or the parents are
alcoholics or
2:19
their fathers in and out of jail you know it's just these are traumatic events
2:25
and there's a story about a man who was in and out of he was
2:31
an alcoholic a criminal and in and out of jail and he had two sons
2:38
and one son ended up in jail just like his father and one son ended up the
2:43
total opposite he was very stable very responsible and materially quite
2:50
successful and so it was interesting to study these two people because
2:58
karmically they had the same karma they were twins they were born a minute apart
3:04
so the stars don't change that much in a minute i mean they could but generally not
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so they had the same karma identical karma and
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they were in exactly the same situation and they came out completely differently
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and the interesting thing is when they were interviewed and asked why
3:26
did your life end up like this they both gave the same answer so now i have you
bewildered
3:33
right i was like how how could they give the same answer and they ended up in the
same situation and you know what
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their answer is they say how did you end up in jail or how did you end up so
successful they said my father because
3:46
of my father and so the guy in jail that makes sense well because you know his
father didn't
3:51
take care of him he wasn't raised well that makes sense to us more than
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the other one but the other one said well when i saw the way my father was living i
decided i'd never want to be like that
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so so it's not the situation it's the response to the situation that
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affects us but later on i studied i i do a lot of counseling
4:17
not i didn't sign up for the job i just ended up doing it people come to me
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and i started to see that many many many people devotees and non-devotees
4:29
are dealing with some kind of trauma in in their past that's affecting them now
4:34
uh everybody we're all like i said life is traumatic i mean prabhupad left us that was
huge trauma
4:41
we became devotees our parents disowned us in some cases yeah we go through
these traumas but some traumas affect us
4:47
more and one of the world experts on trauma
4:52
said the exact same thing you are not traumatized by the event you are traumatized
by your interpretation
4:59
of the event how do you see it
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interesting isn't it so
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so we we of course are taught in krishna consciousness to see through the eye of
shastra and so this verse is so
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important for us because vanti brahman is saying it's it's your mind it's what your
mind
5:25
is telling you that's happening your interpretation of it not necessarily
5:31
what happened is the cause but what you're telling yourself that happened is the
cause you ever worry
5:38
about something and there's no need to worry about it
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yeah but what if what if this happens it's like the possibility of that happen
5:48
happening is like infinitely impossible but sometimes the
5:53
minds but what if it happens and now we're worrying and i'm stressed out why well
6:00
what if you know what if the war comes to california it's not coming to california
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at least not tomorrow don't worry about but what if it does you know
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so we we as devotees are meant
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to process information through shastra
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so there are many ways to look at look at situations through shastra which would
6:31
cause us to not degrade ourselves with a reaction
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that is entangling less in passion and ignorance a reaction more like the sadhu well
this
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is my reaction well it's my karma i deserve it what can i say or krishna's giving me
when someone
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criticizes you bhakti siddhanta says well now krsna's is helping you become humble
6:56
because we're all proud right so i need someone to criticize me once in a while
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just to keep me humble that's how a devotee thinks otherwise when you're criticized
you become angry you become
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depressed you become discouraged you criticize back all behaviors which are
contaminating
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and not appropriate for a devotee correct
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these are the yeah and and and i want to go back to this other point all behaviors
that sometimes
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we would justify on the basis i chant a good round today and went to mongolia
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so i'm i'm a good devotee i'm a good here here's the problem sometimes we think i'm
a good devotee
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even when we're not a good devotee i'm getting angry at somebody i'm mistreating
somebody but i chant a good
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rounds today they're from a good devotee so because of the china good rounds i
have the right to get angry
7:53
i have the right to chastise i have the right not to be forgiving it doesn't make any
sense at all doesn't
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it yeah and so take it one stage further because i'm a good devotee i have the
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right to chop people's heads off who aren't devotees you know like it obviously it's
not going to go there but
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that's the thinking that gets people there for god
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we do this even though it's the wrong thing so i'm just saying these things for your
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contemplation of meditation in your own life
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have you ever acted this way before any of you out of character
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have you acted out of character like a devotee doesn't do this
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i'll give you the answer the answer is yes all the time and if you think that's not the
answer
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you're really an illusion and you have a problem and we need to talk
8:56
because because of this i went to a mongol
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articulation of my rounds i think i'm perfect that covers us so we can't see
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we can't see when we're acting out of character
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have you ever had that realization like after a day after a week after a month after
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some devotees have it 30 years after i have a god brother who 30 years later came
back to a temple
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he managed and he went up to everyone he said please forgive me they said he
they said what for he said
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well were you here in this temple 30 years ago they said yeah he said i must have
offended you
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i didn't realize it at the time but now i realize i must have offended you
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so sometimes we don't realize it while we're doing it and that's a huge problem
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and the reason is because i'm a good devotee good devotees don't misbehave so
when i
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misbehave i don't notice it because i'm a good devotee that is a a serious problem
10:07
it's a it comes from a lack of introspection clarity humility
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but we all need to be introspective maybe we can give you you as as as homework
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this will be very depressing homework make a list of everything that you've done
10:28
that wasn't right that you didn't realize until i asked you to think about it that wasn't
proper
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hey contact you ever get mad at somebody that ever happened to you never get
angry
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very often unfortunately you're a bona fide human being oh my god
10:49
how did that happen i thought you were a devotee so
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we all do it have you ever done it and not paid attention like that was wrong
11:03
like like justified it this is righteous anger and so forth we all do that that's
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the problem because then we don't notice it i am justified in you know in some cases
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maybe with your children because it will help them or the guru may do that with the
disciple
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because it will help them but i'm talking about in ordinary affairs
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we often don't even notice because we think
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i don't know what we think well though here's the point because we don't think that's
that's the answer
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we do it because we don't think and so um and i think also
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the beauty of talking about forgiveness or compassion or integrity
11:51
or tolerance or any of these qualities is it sheds light on the point that we don't think
about these things enough
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because we think if i just do bhakti the qualities will come so why do i even have to
think about it and yes i i
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became angry today but i'm in the process and someday i won't be angry and
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that's that is only fifty percent true we miss the other fifty percent
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what's the other fifty percent okay fifty percent if you as preliminary
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says all good qualities will develop if you have bhakti all right that's the 50 the other
50 is you have to act on those
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good qualities so that they so that they empower your bhakti so that you get
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enough bhakti that they will actually develop in reality
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let me give a simple example if i say all good qualities will develop
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when you have bhakti i could decide never to take a bath again
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and when i become krishna conscious then i'll start taking bath again and you're all
laughing to go that's the stupidest
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thing i've ever heard how is that any different than saying well i don't have to be
humble now it
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was when i'm krishna conscious i'll be humble i don't have to control my my anger
now because when i become
13:10
krishna conscious i'll have all good qualities so
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here's a little mantra for you that i came up with that to explain this the path to
forgiveness is paved with the
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practice of forgiveness and you can you can change any word you
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want the path to non-enviousness is paved with the practice of non-enviousness
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prabhupada said this do you know
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that prabhupad said if you are envious of someone you should serve them do you
know he said that
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like like that's the last person you want to serve
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on your list of people to serve the people you're envious of are not on that list i don't
think
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they're on the list of people you'd like to like to disappear from the face of the earth
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isn't it not the ones you want to serve why did prabhupad say if you're envious
14:10
you should serve them because it's a practice that will remove the envy if i'm envious
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how long is going to take me to be krishna conscious a long time if i can practice
being non-envious i'm going to
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advance and one day i will actually become non-envious so the practice doesn't
mean
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i'm over it just means i'm practicing to be appreciative and supportive
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and honor people i envy because it it purifies me and they didn't do anything wrong
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why are we envious of someone because they did something right you know what
prabhupad said you know
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why you're envious of someone he said because they have what they are or they
have what you want
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to be or what you don't have so it's actually a form of glorification
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like like if i listen to akanta give a class and and the class is amazing and i
15:08
think i'm so envious of her what does that mean i want to be able to give a class like
that
15:13
i once had a devotee come up to me and said she's and i knew this devotee and
after i gave class she said i'm envious
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of you i was like what did i do he said no i want to be able to give
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class like that so that was honest that was honest
15:29
so we are only envious of people we actually appreciate and so prophet saying just
acknowledge it
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and serve so a lot of devotees are caught in the second half of the equation that if
you
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engage in devotional service all the good qualities will develop but
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practicing those qualities is engaging in devotional service be humble whoa
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i'm not humble well at least practice it be respectful don't criticize appreciate
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honor well what if i don't appreciate the person appreciate them anyway that's the
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practice of humility otherwise what do you want to do you want to wait till you
become humble well how are you going to
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become humble if you don't respect people now did you ever think ask that yourself
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that question no problem i just chat hari krishna will come but what kind of chanting
are you
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doing if you're offending devotees how is how is it going to come if your
16:30
chanting is not respectful of other devotees and all living entities
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do you know in the bhagavatam second kanto
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chapter i think it's three verse 24 the still friend heart prabhupad said shan hari
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krishna and respect all living entities that's how you do it you don't just chant hurry
christian you have to chant
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or or prophet said chant and don't offend devotees right but no i'll just chant and
someday
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i'll stop offending devotees until then i'll probably offend all of you not a good plan
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it's not going to work you will never chant a pure holy name if you're offending
devotees so the
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first half of the equation is i'm not humble but i'm going to practice it i'm going to
appreciate
17:22
i'm going to appreciate you i'm going to serve you i'm going to respect you
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even if i don't appreciate you and i don't respect you and i'm not going to
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criticize you that's my practice of humility and my practice of envy i'm going to
support
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you even though i'm envious of you right and tolerance
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tolerance in the condition state is a is a practice it's not something that necessarily
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is easy to do or comes naturally right never get upset and someone say
18:01
just tolerate tolerate tolerance i can't tolerate it i can't practice it just calm down okay
i'm going to go home i'm
18:08
going to calm down it's a practice but when you're talking us do you think
18:14
you have to practice tolerance you know he's being defamed
18:20
he doesn't care there's nothing to tolerate he's beyond it he's beyond duality he's
transcendental
18:26
right so how are you going to get there tolerance is a sadhana forgiveness is a
18:33
sudden isn't it virtu practicing virtue is a sadhana in
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our movement that's been in some places it's been swept under the
18:46
rug a bit it's it's you know in the name of service we kind of think well as if i get the
18:51
service done if i build this temple to distribute these books or or
18:57
make these devotees then i don't have to be humble or tolerant or forgiving because
i'm a successful devotee that's
19:04
wrong i'm not minimizing those activities we should do those things
19:10
but don't think those are replacements for developing vaishnav equality now
19:16
um let's read a few more the mind should be trained to think of the welfare of
19:22
others so if the mind is trained to think of the welfare of others um it doesn't sound
like
19:28
resentment does it sounds like forgiveness doesn't it okay you mistreat me but i'm
going to think
19:35
of your welfare can you think of the well think of somebody who has mistreated you
right now think
19:42
of somebody if you can't think of anybody i i doubt there's nobody
19:51
any mistreatment any little thing i know and now think of that person and think i have
to
19:56
become their well-wisher i have to think of their welfare that's also your assignment
for today
20:04
i would like you to think and bless and pray for someone who hurt you
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that's that's what it means to be a devotee doesn't it to pray for those who hurt us
that's
20:16
what it means so and if you come back and say oh i can't do that
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make a note of that that's a problem so write that down as your homework also
20:30
think of someone who's hurt you and pray for them
20:35
think of someone you're envious of appreciate them
20:44
this could be the most amazing exercise you've ever done i've done it i've done it
myself i've
20:50
had devotees do it it's very transforming
21:01
okay so i want to what time do we end class
21:13
how much more time do we have supposed to end at 7 15 but we started a
21:18
bit late so i mean you supposed to end in five minutes is that right
21:24
yeah okay so i want to find
21:31
um [Music] there's a quote by bhaktivinoda taco
21:37
and i am going to have to paraphrase it because i i didn't have time to find it
21:49
he kind of gives i'm i'm giving my own analogy but he's creating a kitri out of
21:54
bhakti like what goes in the if you have bhakti what goes in the kitchen okay we want
to make a pot of bhakti
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what goes in well you put in the beans of compassion and the rice of humility
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that's what he said these are the two ingredients humility and compassion
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that's what makes a bhakti isn't that interesting and wherever you see bhakti you'll
see
22:21
these two qualities won't you it's not that you'll see
22:26
oh here's a great devotee but he's not compassionate or here here's a pure devotee
but he's
22:31
really proud i don't you don't see that right so again we're saying
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these are these are things which we have to practice to get bhakti but when you
have bhakti they come
22:45
naturally it's a byproduct in in the full sense then he said something interesting
22:50
when you when you you know if any of you are chemists you take two chemicals you
mix them together you get something else
22:57
to come out of it right like hydrogen oxygen h2o two molecules of
23:02
hydrogen one of oxygen then you get water but i think if you take
23:08
three molecules or two molecules of oxygen you get hydrogen peroxide i'm not i
forget that was like
23:14
over 52 years ago that i was last seen in the university
23:19
but you know you change one molecule right you isn't it and then you get hydrogen
peroxide or then you get
23:25
alcohol so he said plus i was sleeping in my classes anyway
23:31
i wasn't that interested so you take compassion and you take
23:38
humility you mix it up in your chemical laboratory and he said
23:43
forgiveness comes out of it that's what you get so he said bhakti is made of
23:48
compassion it's made of humility and forgiveness that's the kitry of bhakti isn't that
interesting
23:56
that that's like a real eye-opener like what does forgiveness have to do with anything
and bhaktivinoda talk we're saying it's the kitri so i want to read
24:03
something he said
24:10
[Music] i just had it and lost it
24:17
this is what he said who am i to inflict punishment in the form of revenge upon others
when this
24:24
attitude combines with compassion forgiveness begins to sprout so
24:29
we have two or three minutes bhaktivinoda takora said
24:36
in this context compassion means i don't want to see people suffer in this context
humility means i don't
24:43
want to see them suffer on my account so like i don't want to see you suffer what to
speak of suffer because you hurt me
24:50
and i'm going to take revenge so he said this compassion i don't want to see people
suffer the humility nobody
24:57
should suffer in my account produces forgiveness that's the consciousness of a
vaishnava
25:04
on a scale of one to ten grade yourself on that how much of that consciousness you
have ten being you
25:11
have it fully and one being you have it you don't have it at all that's also your
homework
25:16
[Laughter] you all might kind of get depressed tonight right from this homework
25:27
okay so we have three minutes if if anyone has a question
25:34
um you can ask a question i don't know people are watching on youtube if someone
is monitoring that they can ask
25:41
a question am i supposed to be here tomorrow same
25:47
time same station or another day to give the second part i forgot
25:52
friday my am i giving class tomorrow with you
26:01
anyway you can send me an email yeah okay question put last time is that from you
26:06
yes very creative another problem in regards to what shiloh prophet often
26:12
said about people who are trying to cheat you and therefore cheating a person is a
sin
26:20
but even being cheated is a sin too how'd you go around that one
26:26
yeah okay i'm glad you asked that question um i've been teaching forgiveness for
about 20 years so i had to you know figure
26:32
this one out in my own head and what i realized was that
26:38
for a devotee whatever we do our heart has to be in the same place
26:43
so you're cheating me to defend my interest to defend krsna's interest i
26:49
have to deal with you because i say okay the lost is a cheater he's going to say he
loves me but he just wants to get his
26:56
hand in my wallet and pull my so i'm not bringing my wallet when i go to his house
i'm just going to eat his
27:02
prasada when he invites me over so in other words
27:08
i i want to maintain my humility my compassion my forgiveness and so forth
27:14
but i may have to act in a way that doesn't look like it just as arjuna you know he was
just
27:20
doing his bhakti it didn't look like it to the average person it looked like he looked like
he was
27:25
killing people why did it look like he was killing people because he was but what was
going on inside
27:32
he couldn't kill until his bhakti matured which is interesting right
27:37
so okay so palasta has managed to while i
27:42
was at at at his house he he went to my house and got my wallet all right so now
27:48
we have to do something so like and i'm afraid palazzo's going to steal everyone's
wallet so
27:54
i get a court order and now he's in jail and everybody's happy because he can't steal
any wallet i don't hate him i
28:00
don't have any revenge i just did it to protect devotees and for his own good so he
stopped stealing so my heart doesn't
28:07
change because in bhakti it's all about why are you doing something more than what
you're doing so you can
28:13
do a bad thing with the right motive or you can do a good thing with the wrong motive
i'm going to give a fantastic
28:18
class why because i want you all to think i'm great wrong motive right i'm going to put
you in prison why
28:25
you're a devotee you can't do that well you need it it'll be good for you but it's not
because i hate you
28:31
so if we separate those two then it's easy i just practically this is what i have
28:37
to do but the condition i'm not going to take you to jail because i hate you i'm going to
take you to jail because i
28:43
think this is good for you and good for everybody else okay excuse the fact that we
had to use you as an example
28:50
i don't for a minute believe that you are a thief or a bad person so but i just
28:57
you asked the question so i i chose you yeah um and and the other thing is
29:04
when you forgive you're not condoning what a person did some people think well if i
forgive
29:09
they're going to do it again i'm going to steal my wallet again you don't have to
condone you can create boundaries with people it doesn't it's
29:16
not always a tool for a relationship because if you tried to kill me i really don't want a
relationship with you
29:21
because you could do it again but i can forgive you because i don't want to go to my
grave holding on to resentment and have to come back and
29:27
take birth again to purify myself so like
29:33
um when we have to forgive another devotee i mean we take the humble position but
at the
29:39
same time could we approach that person and ask why did you do it
29:45
you're forgiving the person understanding why if it helps you but it shouldn't be
based on understanding it because then
29:51
you if you don't think his reason is good he won't forgive him you know it's like i give
the example i
29:58
say i have some keys i give them to you and these keys represent
30:03
my forgiveness and why did i give them to you because i want you to apologize to
me and you're thinking i didn't do
30:09
anything wrong i'm not going to apologize or why did i do it i don't know why i did it
i'm crazy and so
30:14
you're holding on to the keys and i can't forgive you because i made a condition right
30:20
so that's not smart and and but besides that as devotees we're supposed to learn
30:25
um you know the mood of nitananda forgiveness the prophet said nitananda's
forgiveness is unlimited
30:32
he lost the disciple the disciple went way off the deep end and they were trying to
bring the disciple back and
30:38
the devotees gave up and prophet said don't give up you you don't understand
nitana prabhu's forgiveness is unlimited
30:46
so you know these things are not talked a lot about we talk about them a little bit but
when
30:53
you actually get into them you start to see that these are qualities that are very very
very
31:01
difficult yet important for our hearts because that's you know you can't you
31:06
can't love krishna and hate everybody else it doesn't work that way
31:12
how i'm dealing with this way affects this relationship this relationship whoops this
relationship is
31:19
affected by these relationships and and the reality is this relationship
31:26
with the krishna doesn't get better if this is going down this automatically when this is
better
31:33
this is better they go together right and sometimes we you know we have to realize
that not just with devotees with
31:40
all all living entities
31:45
and if the relationships get better this goes up or or if this goes up this goes
31:51
up they work together thank you
31:56
you're welcome i'm glad you asked that question because that's very important and
confusing
32:03
for many and our hearts should be pure we deal with externals as necessary you
32:09
know like sometimes there's a divorce right but you'll say well we're still friends
32:15
so it wasn't a you know a violent divorce it was just you know it didn't work
32:20
and you know we have problems with one another but we we're devotees so we
want to
32:26
maintain good relationships with everyone you know we didn't get along i was a
temple president you didn't like
32:33
me but we want to maintain respect you know i'll share with you one thing
32:40
i've been teaching lately a lot about joppa and especially in relation to mahaprabhu
32:45
and i don't think we realize how much our japan is affected by our relationships
32:52
because i will find many devotees are different from me you will find many devotees
32:59
different from you and sometimes we tend not to agree with people or like people
33:04
who don't agree with us have you ever noticed that you like the people that agree
with you more than the ones who don't
33:12
so there was people don't agree with us sometimes we say i can't understand why
33:17
they think this way like why would they want women to be gurus i can't understand
that i can't understand why
33:24
wouldn't they want women to be gross it doesn't make any sense to me so whatever
makes sense to me if it doesn't make
33:30
sense to you i think there's something wrong with your head you got you know it's
screwed on backwards or something
33:35
and so it's very easy in that situation
33:41
to become critical or offensive many devotees i'm just going to throw
33:46
this out and this sounds like a criticism it's just trying to be objective many devotees
33:52
who are critical are not able to chant their rounds properly because of that and you
might
33:58
know some of them and you might want to as a friend say how are your rounds
doing
34:03
and they say oh i can't hardly finish my rounds i said maybe maybe
34:09
you shouldn't be thinking about vaccinations or anti-vaxx and all the bad things that
are all the bad people
34:15
who got vaccinated or all the stupid people who didn't and you know whatever
maybe you should think about
34:21
respecting devotees your joppa will be affected by it there are many devotees who
say you know
34:26
my rounds have been bad for 10 years like maybe it has to do with your relationships
but
34:32
you know it's interesting just i'll leave you with that thought that could be another
homework
34:37
assignment you know how many divorce devotees did i offend yesterday how many
in the last week
34:44
how many in the last month oh prabhu my my calculator doesn't have
34:49
enough zeros to calculate that oh that's so that homework assignment
34:57
will take me four weeks to finish you know there's too many people on the list
anyway
35:03
so um thank you for listening i hope there's some help i just wanted to emphasize it
35:09
is part of our philosophy and it's a part that sometimes we
35:14
we see it in our books but we don't pay attention to it because it's not like always in
the forefront of our lives
35:20
more service is more in the forefront okay we're going to go and i have a meeting in
a few minutes also so
35:28
eating sleeping meeting and defending yeah that's what happens
35:33
sometimes okay krishna thank you you're welcome thank you very much
35:41
vih and kj do you know i used to be part of the vig in 1997 i was co-director
35:48
yeah those were the good old days okay hari krishna chai prabhupada
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