DAY 6 Trial of Carrie Neighbors

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 906
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF KANSAS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, v. CARRIE NEIGHBORS, Defendant. ................... TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL - DAY SIX BEFORE THE HONORABLE CARLOS MURGUIA, UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE. APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: Marietta Parker Asst. US Attorney 360 US Courthouse 500 State Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 John Duma Attorney at Law 303 E Poplar Street Olathe, KS 66061 Nancy Moroney Wiss, CSR, RMR, FCRR Official Court Reporter 558 US Courthouse 500 State Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 Docket No. 07-20124 Kansas City, Kansas Date: 9/20/10
For the Defendant:
Court Reporter:
NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR
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I N D E X GOVERNMENT'S WITNESSES: Bradley Byrne Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Re-Direct Exam by Ms. Parker John Neal Bers, Jr Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Patrick D Nieder Direct Exam by Mr. Oakley Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Re-Direct Exam by Mr. Oakley Re-Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Jerry Greene Direct Exam by Mr. Oakley Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Anthony 'Tony' Reyes Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Re-Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Re-Cross Exam by Mr. Duma Matthew McNemee Direct Exam by Mr. Oakley Paula Keller Smith Direct Exam by Mr. Oakley Stacy Lynn Barnes-Catlett Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Cross Exam by Mr. Duma James Ludwig Direct Exam by Ms. Parker Cross Exam by Mr. Duma
910 927 930 935 944 946 965 973 974 976 981 984 1041 1058 1059 1061 1070 1082 1122 1138 1163
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EXHIBITS: Govt's 3.1 Govt's 6.3 Govt's 8.1 Govt's 8.2 Govt's 8.3 Govt's 8.2 Govt's 8.4 Govt's 8.5 Govt's 8.6 Govt's 8.7 Govt's 8.8 Govt's 9.1 Govt's 14.1 Govt's 14.4 Govt's 14.5 Govt's 14.6 Govt's 15.1, 15.2 Govt's 16.2 Govt's 151.1 Govt's 231
I N D E X OFFERED 960 1099 1072 1077 1075 1077 1068 1064 1065 1066 1079 1113 920 939 923 939 1159 1161 978 979 RECEIVED 961 1099 1072 1078 1075 1078 1068 1064 1065 1067 1079 1113 920 939 923 939 1159 1161 978 979
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(9:10 AM, jury returned.) THE COURT: THE JURY: THE COURT: Good morning. Good morning. Thank you. Had a long weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: THE COURT:
Short.
So, short for some, but we're So again, just as a
back here again in the courtroom.
reminder, as you've been doing throughout the trial, please be alert, please be attentive to everything that's being presented to you. We'll continue with the
evidence and the government's evidence, and Miss Parker, if you're ready to proceed. MS. PARKER: We are, Your Honor. At this
time the United States would call Bradley Byrne. THE COURT: Please come forward. Before you
take your seat, I need for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: I do. Please be careful as you sit
And as you give your answers, please speak up Speak into the microphone. I'm sorry,
loud and clear.
maybe no one has said, and I don't want to get you nervous a little bit. Unless you're taking something
for a sore throat or something, usually if it's just gum, we ask that you remove it during your testimony.
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That's okay. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Sorry. That's okay. Sorry. That's fine. It's only because That's fine.
that way, your answers are probably a little bit clearer. In any case, again, please speak into the Have you start
microphone, speak up loud and clear. with you stating your name. THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
Name is Bradley Byrne. What I'll ask, Mr. Byrne, if you
can move that microphone, just grab the base and move it closer to you. There you go. Please spell your name. B Y R N E.
THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. PARKER:
B R A D L E Y. Thank you.
Miss Parker.
Thank you, Your Honor.
BRADLEY BYRNE, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. Mr. Byrne, you're here under subpoena, correct? Yes. All right. And you're here because you have
agreed to cooperate in the investigation and the
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prosecution of a store called Yellow House? A. Q. Yes. And you agreed to do that in exchange for the
government's agreement that it would not use any of your statements about your involvement with Yellow House against you? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, you have some criminal
convictions yourself, do you not? A. Q. Yes. All right. Isn't it true that in March -- in
fact, March the 28th of 2002, you were convicted of the felony offense of possession of opiates in Douglas County, Kansas? A. Q. Correct. And on March the 28th -- I'm sorry, March the
25th, three days before that of 2002, you were convicted of attempted forgery, another felony in Anderson County, Kansas? A. Q. Correct. And on February 25th of 2002, you were convicted
again of the felony offense of attempted forgery in Franklin County, Kansas? A. Q. Yes. All right. And isn't it true that on July 2nd of
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2009, you were convicted in Douglas County, Kansas of the offense, felony offense of possession of opiates? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And opiates are drugs, correct? Yes. And on July 2nd, 2009, in Douglas County, Kansas,
you were convicted of the felony offense of forgery? A. Q. Yes. And on January 28th of 2010, you were again
convicted of the felony offense of forgery, this time in Johnson County, Kansas? A. Q. Correct. All right. Now, I'd like to direct your In 2005, did you meet
attention to the year 2005, okay?
an individual by the name of Michael Aldridge? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Where did you meet him? County jail. And which county was that? Douglas. Douglas County? Yes, ma'am. All right. And were you in Douglas County for
those 2002 convictions you've just talked about? A. Yes.
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Q.
All right.
And how long were you and
Mr. Aldridge in the county jail together? A. Q. About 30 days. You're going to have to lean forward and speak
into the microphone. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. About 30 days. All right. Do you remember when that was?
August, September of '07. Of '07? Or '0 -- well, '09 or -- not -- I'm sorry. I was directing your attention to -I was out in '06. All right. I believe it was '06.
Well, I was directing your attention
to 2005. A. Q. A. of '05. Q. A. Q. A. All right. And they took me on detainer to Douglas County. I'm sorry? And they took me to Douglas County on detainer. Okay. All right. And I'll tell you what --
My release date was, yeah, August 12th from DOC
That's how I met Mr. Aldridge. Q. All right. And when did you actually get out of
custody?
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A.
30 days.
So, sometime the beginning of
September. Q. you -THE COURT: THE JURY: THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. I wanted to show you what's been marked Are the jurors' monitors all on? Yes. Thank you. Do I have to turn this on? Now, I want to show
Government's Exhibit 121 which is all ready in evidence, and it's a summary of checks that were written to you by various individuals at the Yellow House. A. Q. Okay. And I want to show you here, this first line All right?
shows that on September 23rd of 2005, you received a check for $230 for a flat screen and some tools. see that? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Now, I wanted to ask you about that Do you
September 23rd date. A. Q. A. Q. prison? Okay. September 23rd of 2005. Okay. All right. Is this about the time you got out of
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A. Q. A. Q.
Yes, out of -Out of jail? Yes. I'm sorry, out of jail. And after you got out of
jail, did you re-associate yourself with Michael Aldridge? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And when was that? Within two weeks of getting released. And did you and Michael Aldridge form a
partnership of sorts to make money? A. Q. Yeah, you could say that. All right. And what did you and Michael Aldridge
agree to do? A. I would agree to drive him to Topeka, and he
would get items, and I would -- because I had the legal ID, I would return 'em. Q. Where would he get the items that he was picking
up in Topeka? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Wal-Mart, Office Depot, Radioshack. How did he -- what did he use to pay for 'em? Oh, I don't believe he paid for 'em at all. All right. Yes, ma'am. All right. And so, you would drive Michael He was stealing them?
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Aldridge to Topeka, and he would tell you what store to go to? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. He'd go in with his arms empty,
correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. He'd come out with new items? Yes. And then where would you go with the new items? Yellow House in Topeka. The Yellow House in Topeka. And who would go in
to sell the items? A. Q. A. I would. Why didn't Michael Aldridge go in? Not sure why. There was a dispute, but he never
elaborated why, but he wouldn't go. Q. A. Q. A. Q. checks. All right. Plus he didn't have ID. But you did have ID? Yes, ma'am. All right. Now, let's go over some of these
This first check here on September the 23rd of Do you
2005, that was for flat screen and tools.
remember whether either of those items belonged to you or Michael Aldridge, or whether they were stolen?
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A.
Flat screen I know didn't belong to me.
The
tools I believe did. Q. A. Q. So, was the flat screen stolen? Yes. All right. And then the next item down here is It was for radio and
on October the 12th of 2005. camera. A. Q. A. Q. Do you see that? Yes, ma'am.
And were those stolen items? I would believe so, yes. All right. When you took items to the Yellow
House, either did you sometimes go to the Yellow House in Lawrence as well? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah, there were times. And when you took stolen items in -Uh-huh. -- were they usually -- were they always new in
the box items? A. Usually not in the box. In the plastic
sometimes. Q. All right. And do you know why they weren't in
the box? A. Well, my assumption would be is because it's
harder for Mike Aldridge to get 'em out of the store. Q. In the box?
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A. Q.
Yes. All right. But he would come out, take things --
get in the car, take things from under his clothes, and it would be something new in plastic? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Yes. When someone looked at the item that you took in But no box?
to the Yellow House, the new items that Michael Aldridge had just given you, could -- could someone tell they were new, unused from the appearance of them? A. Yeah, I didn't -- I -- I -- just footnote - I I usually never kept 'em
took 'em out of the plastic.
in the plastic, but -- but because of that fact. Q. A. Q. A. Q. All right. Yes. But then were the cords tied up?
Yes, ma'am.
And the stickers on it? Yes, ma'am. And if there's any film on a computer screen,
that would have been left on? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. So, it was obvious that the items
that you were taking, the new ones were new? A. Q. Yes. All right. Then the next entry here is
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October 14th, and that's for night vision security cameras? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Where did you get those? Radioshack. Did you get 'em or did Michael Aldridge? No, Michael Aldridge did. New? Yes. Stolen? Yes. The next one is October 24th. It's an Easy Share
camera and surveillance camera. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. check? A. Q. finder. A. Q. Not to my knowledge, no. Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes.
Do you see that?
Were those new and stolen?
And these checks are all written to you? Yes, ma'am. Correct? Did you ever get paid any way except by
The next item here on 10/26 of '05 is a fish Do you see that? Yes, ma'am. Where did you get the fish finder?
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A. Q.
Went to Cabela's one day.
I was --
Now, I'd like to show you Government's
Exhibit 14.1, ask you if you'd take a look at that please. A. Q. What's that? Three checks. All right. I just wanted you to look at the one Do you see
in the middle that has your name on it. that? A. Q. House? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. MS. PARKER: Yes, ma'am. All right.
Is that a check you got at the Yellow
Your Honor, at this time
government offers Government's Exhibit 14.1. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 14.1. BY MS. PARKER: Q. I'm going to put this Government's Exhibit 14.1 Any objection? No objection. At this time the court admits
on the overhead, and you can either look at the actual exhibits in your hand or on the screen. But this shows
that this check was written, looks like 10/20 of '05. Correct?
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A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes, ma'am. And what was it for? Fish finder. All right. And you got that fish finder at And it was for $275?
Cabela's? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. Now, $275, does that amount indicate
to you how many fish finders you sold that day? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. More than one. All right. Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes. Now, that's the Cabela's that's on the western And you got all of those at Cabela's? So, several?
part of Wyandotte County out there at the Legends, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. So, where did you take these fish finders when I mean, I'm sorry when you stole them?
you bought them? A. Q. House? A.
The Yellow House. All right. And who did you deal with at Yellow
Usually Guy, but on this occasion, I believe it
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was the one in Lawrence. Q. All right. Well, do you recognize the signature
on that check as Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Yeah. All right. And this shows that the check was
written on a Yellow House Quality Appliance account with an address on Massachusetts Avenue in Lawrence, correct? A. Q. sight? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. All right. Do you see her in the courtroom? Yes. All right. Do you know Carrie Neighbors by
Yeah, she's sitting over there. All right. And would you just describe what
color her jacket is? A. Q. I think it's gray. When you took the fish -- now, let me just ask We talking about -- that says fish finder.
you this.
Is a fish finder the same thing as a depth finder? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yeah, I believe so. It's something that -Electronic. Yeah, fish finder means to find fish? Yeah. All right. Mr. Byrne, I want to show you what's
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been marked as Government's Exhibit 14.5 and ask you if that appears to be a fair and accurate photograph of one of the fish finders or depth finders that you sold to Carrie Neighbors that day? A. Yes. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time
government offers Exhibit 14.5. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 14.5. BY MS. PARKER: Q. I'm going to put Government's Exhibit 14.5 on the And some of the items in this packet are Any objection? No objection. At this time court admits
overhead.
still in their plastic, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And you would have left it like that? Yes. All right. And that indicates to someone who
looks at that configuration of items that they are what, new, used? A. New. New. MR. DUMA: Judge, I'm going to object to
this as a leading question. MS. PARKER: Okay. I'll rephrase it.
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BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. The -- when you look at this photograph? Yes, ma'am. Seeing the items that are here in plastic, what
does that indicate to you about whether or not you used this item? A. New or fairly new. MR. DUMA: Object to that as being
irrelevant as to whether it indicates to this particular person. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. See, I think I gave you a copy of this. Let me Sustained.
give you the original.
Did Carrie Neighbors ask you
anything about where you got multiple new fish finders? A. Q. No, ma'am. Next item here on this summary chart is -- shows
that a check was written to you on October the 28th of 2005, and this time it was for a computer. that? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes, ma'am. And is that a copy of that check, Do you see
says computer? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. And that was again written by whom?
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A. Q. A.
Carrie Neighbors. Where did you get the computer? I believe it was Micro Tech, I'm not sure. I'm
pretty sure it was Micro Tech in Overland Park. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Stolen? Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes, ma'am. All right. And then you went -- the rest of New?
these checks here appear to have been signed by Guy Neighbors, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. So, you then went back to the Yellow
House Store in Topeka for the rest of your business? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Now, the last date here is November 17th of 2005.
Do you see that? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And at that time, you sold a monitor? Yes, ma'am. All right. And would you tell the court and jury
whether or not that was a stolen item or another kind? A. Q. I believe it was stolen. All right. Why did you stop going to the Yellow
House, or why did you stop getting checks, if you know,
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from the Yellow House on November 17th of '05? A. I imagine -- I think Aldridge got violated or It just --
went to jail, and we just parted ways. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
And you never went out on your own after that? No, ma'am. And stole items and took it to the Yellow House? No, ma'am. When you took the fish finders to Carrie
Neighbors, did she ask you if they were stolen? A. Q. No, ma'am. When you took that computer several days later,
did she ask you if that was stolen? A. Q. A. Q. that? A. Q. No, ma'am. Thank you. I don't -- now, we have -- according No, there was a sign on the door, though. All right. What did the sign on the door say?
No stolen items. All right. And did you pay any attention to
to your chart, these checks totaled $2,780, and they were written from September 23rd to November 17th, correct? A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. In the two-month period, you got close to $3,000? Yes, ma'am.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q. money? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
And how was the money split? In half. All right. What did you do with your half of the
How did you spend your money? Well, bills and gas and a habit. What kind of habit? Smoked cocaine. You smoked cocaine? Yes, ma'am. All right. Did you ever smoke it with Michael
Aldridge? A. Q. A. Q. Once. So, you needed money for drugs? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I have nothing further. Your Honor, excuse me, if I --
MS. PARKER:
did I offer 14.1, because if I did not -THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: 14.1? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Cross-examination? Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA:
09:29:14 09:29:18 09:29:21 09:29:25 09:29:25 09:29:27 09:29:33 09:29:34 09:29:34 09:29:38 09:29:38 09:29:40 09:29:41 09:29:45 09:29:49 09:29:51 09:29:52 09:29:53 09:29:55 09:29:56 09:30:03 09:30:10 09:30:11 09:30:12 09:30:14
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
Mr. Byrne, would it be fair to say that you were
addicted to crack cocaine during the period of time that you were helping Mr. Aldridge take that stuff to Yellow House? A. Q. Yes, ma'am -- or yes, sir. All right. And you gave a statement to the
police in this case, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And you actually came in with an attorney, right? Yes. Randy McCullough? Yes. All right. And you actually had a -- an
agreement signed by both your attorney, you, and the US government that whatever you said would not be used against you, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And that's why you cooperated, correct? Yes. All right. Now, you at one time back in the late
nineties sold Carrie Neighbors a couple of things. Would you agree with that? A. Q. Yes. All right. And those things that you sold to her Would you agree with that?
back then were not stolen.
09:30:16 09:30:16 09:30:22 09:30:25 09:30:28 09:30:30 09:30:30 09:30:32 09:30:32 09:30:37 09:30:41 09:30:42 09:30:43 09:30:44 09:30:44 09:30:46 09:30:48 09:30:48 09:30:52 09:30:55 09:30:58 09:31:00 09:31:01 09:31:11 09:31:13
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes. All right. And you were asked by the police if
you ever had any conversations with Guy Neighbors about whether anything of what you was selling was stolen, and you said no, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And that's the truth, right? Yes. All right. And you told them the only thing Guy
asked for was identification which Guy recorded on the sales receipt ledger? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Correct? Yeah. So, Guy always asked for identification when you
came in to sell stuff, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. And Guy never seemed suspicious of
the merchandise, and that it was your opinion if Guy knew that if the property was stolen, he probably would not buy it, and ask you to leave, correct? A. Q. True. Now, you and Mr. Aldridge were kind of a
partnership I think as the government described it in terms of stealing -- selling -- or stealing stuff and
09:31:16 09:31:18 09:31:18 09:31:25 09:31:28 09:31:28 09:31:32 09:31:37 09:31:39 09:31:39 09:31:42 09:31:45 09:31:45 09:31:47 09:31:50 09:31:51 09:31:53 09:31:53 09:31:54 09:31:57 09:31:59 09:32:00 09:32:03 09:32:04 09:32:05
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
then selling it, correct? A. Q. Yeah. Did Mr. Aldridge ever tell you that Carrie
Neighbors gave him a car to go out and steal stuff? A. Q. you. No. Okay. I don't have any further questions. This -- you Thank
Oh, I do have one more question.
always got paid by check, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. And this sign on the door, no stolen
items, was it -- was it big enough for anybody that walked in there to see it? A. Q. At eye level right when you walk in. All right. Thank you. No further questions.
THE COURT: MS. PARKER:
Any redirect? Just several questions.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. You were asked about Guy Neighbors writing your
identifying information on his ledger? A. Q. Yes. All right. Did Carrie Neighbors ever take any
identifying information from you? A. Q. Yes, she did. What did -- all right. Here we have the check
09:32:08 09:32:14 09:32:16 09:32:17 09:32:19 09:32:19 09:32:19 09:32:20 09:32:21 09:32:23 09:32:28 09:32:29 09:32:29 09:32:33 09:32:34 09:32:34 09:32:36 09:32:40 09:32:41 09:32:41 09:32:45 09:32:48 09:32:50 09:32:51 09:32:52
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that is 13795, which is the one for the -- it's faint, but it's for the fish finders? A. Q. there? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Where did that come from? Probably the bank. All right. And there's some things blocked out, Yes. All right. And it looks like a thumb print
but when you went to the bank, excuse me, to cash the check, did you have to show ID? A. Q. Yes. Which was why Michael Aldridge needed you to
begin with, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. So, this information here that's been
blacked out, was that put on there by the bank when you went to cash the check? A. Q. Yeah. All right. So, from looking at the check, if you
take away the things that the bank put on there, Carrie Neighbors didn't write anything identifying on this check, did she? A. Q. No. Other than your name?
09:32:53 09:32:54 09:33:00 09:33:02 09:33:03 09:33:06 09:33:08 09:33:09 09:33:11 09:33:15 09:33:16 09:33:18 09:33:19 09:33:21 09:33:27 09:33:27 09:33:28 09:33:32 09:33:34 09:33:34 09:33:36 09:33:37 09:33:40 09:33:40 09:33:41
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
No. The other Check 13828 for the computer, again, Where was that put on?
there's that thumb print. A. Q. The bank. All right.
And on this check, Carrie Neighbors
did not record any identifiers, right? A. Q. A. No. When did she ask you for ID? Well, to fill out for my name on the check to
make sure I was who I said I was. Q. check? A. Q. Not on the check itself. You were also asked about using or smoking crack All right. But didn't record anything on this
cocaine? A. Q. Yes. While you and Michael Aldridge were committing
these thefts, right? A. Q. crack? A. Q. A. Q. It's been almost 10 years. How many? 10 years. All right. But if this is 2005? Yes. All right. When was the last time you smoked
09:33:44 09:33:44 09:33:47 09:33:48 09:33:50 09:33:51 09:33:52 09:33:52 09:33:54 09:33:56 09:33:57 09:33:57 09:34:00 09:34:01 09:34:03 09:34:05 09:34:05 09:34:06 09:34:07 09:34:09 09:34:09 09:34:10 09:34:10 09:34:12 09:34:15
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Yeah. And you were smoking crack in 2005? Right. Well, okay.
This is 2010? You're right, five years -All right. -- is what it is. What made you stop smoking crack? Well, trouble. Going to jail? Yes. Thank you. Nothing further. Any re-cross on that? No, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: testify? MS. PARKER: THE COURT:
Was the witness subpoenaed to
He was, Your Honor. Are you asking that he be
released from his subpoena? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: from your subpoena. Yes, sir. Any objection? No objection. At this time you are released
The only thing that I'll ask before
you leave is that as you leave the courtroom, first of
09:34:19 09:34:22 09:34:25 09:34:27 09:34:28 09:34:40 09:34:42 09:35:13 09:35:16 09:35:17 09:35:20 09:35:22 09:35:25 09:35:29 09:35:31 09:35:33 09:35:34 09:35:35 09:35:35 09:35:38 09:35:39 09:35:40 09:35:44 09:35:47 09:35:47
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
all, you are excused, you're free to go.
The only thing
is for you not to discuss your testimony, what you said in here, with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Okay. Thank you. Your Honor, as its next witness
the government would call Jackie Bers. THE COURT: Before you take your seat, need
for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: get in there. Yes, I do. Take your seat. Careful as you
If you would, as you give your answers to
the questions you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: your name. THE WITNESS: Junior. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: E R -- B E R S. THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Parker. Please spell your name. J O H N. Last name is Bers, B My name is John Neal Bers, Okay. Have you start with you stating
JOHN NEAL BERS, JUNIOR,
09:35:47 09:35:47 09:35:49 09:35:49 09:35:49 09:35:52 09:35:54 09:35:57 09:35:57 09:35:59 09:36:04 09:36:08 09:36:12 09:36:12 09:36:16 09:36:16 09:36:19 09:36:22 09:36:23 09:36:25 09:36:26 09:36:30 09:36:33 09:36:40 09:36:43
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. in? A. Q. Right, now I live in Gardner, Kansas. I want to direct your attention to late 2005 or Where were you employed at that time? Mr. Bers, do you have a nickname? Yes, I go by Jackie. Jackie. All right. And what town do you live
early 2006. A.
I was employed with Cabela's, Incorporated in
Kansas City, Kansas. Q. A. Q. A. And that's the one that's out in the Legends? Yes, ma'am. And what was your job title? I was a senior asset protection manager for
Cabela's. Q. And what are the duties of a senior asset
protection manager? A. I secure the building and apprehend, prosecute
people who steal from the company, and those things. Q. All right. In November of 2005, was Cabela's
having a problem with fish finders or depth finders? A. Yes, we were.
09:36:44 09:36:47 09:36:51 09:36:51 09:36:53 09:36:57 09:36:57 09:37:01 09:37:05 09:37:09 09:37:12 09:37:16 09:37:18 09:37:22 09:37:24 09:37:24 09:37:27 09:37:30 09:37:31 09:37:32 09:37:33 09:37:39 09:37:47 09:37:50 09:37:50
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
All right.
Now, I use the term fish finders, and Are they the same thing?
then I said depth finders. A. Q. Yes, they are. All right.
Would you tell the jury what kind of
problems you noticed at that time at Cabela's with fish finders? A. Sure. We had had a number of different fish
finders, depth finders that had been stolen, and they had been removed from their package and carried out of the building with the packages being left behind, and so, we were investigating numerous fish finders, depth finders that were missing from our inventory. Q. Okay. And you were able to identify the missing
fish finders 'cause you kept finding empty boxes? A. Q. That is correct. All right. Were there any identifying -- was
there any identifying information on the boxes about the fish finders? A. Q. A. Yes. What was that? The type of fish finder that they are as well The type of fish finder, meaning make and
as -- okay.
model as well as serial numbers located on the physical -- the boxes as well. Q. Do you remember what the average retail box of
09:37:53 09:37:55 09:37:57 09:38:00 09:38:08 09:38:10 09:38:10 09:38:15 09:38:16 09:38:20 09:38:23 09:38:23 09:38:26 09:38:28 09:38:28 09:38:35 09:38:37 09:38:41 09:38:44 09:38:48 09:38:51 09:38:55 09:38:59 09:39:02 09:39:03
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the depth finders or fish finders were that you were finding stolen? A. Umm, I don't remember an average, but they were
ranging in prices from $200 up to about $700. Q. A. Q. Pricey items? Yes. All right. Were there any security devices on
those boxes? A. Yes. We placed a -- a sticky electronic article
surveillance device, which set off our alarms at the front doors. Q. All right. So, leaving the box behind would also
leave that detection device behind as well? A. Q. That's correct. All right. What did you do to try to locate the
missing fish finders? A. Well, since we had the boxes and we knew after
doing some inventory that our inventory numbers were incorrect, and we didn't have the units for those boxes, we did some investigating through the internet, looking for fish finders that were potentially for sale through eBay and other avenues like Craig's List and those kinds of things to determine if somebody had stolen them and then were trying to sell them. Q. And were you able to locate on any of the
09:39:08 09:39:11 09:39:14 09:39:19 09:39:26 09:39:30 09:39:32 09:39:36 09:39:38 09:39:42 09:39:46 09:39:49 09:39:54 09:39:59 09:40:03 09:40:04 09:40:07 09:40:10 09:40:15 09:40:18 09:40:22 09:40:25 09:40:30 09:40:35 09:40:35
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
internet sites fish finders that matched the descriptions of the ones you were missing? A. Yes. We located a fish finder. I believe it was
an X 52 Lorance unit on eBay, and it was for sale there, and it was -- and it was brand new without the box. all the contents were there except for the box. Q. Do you remember the e-mail address or the So,
identifier of the owner of that web site? A. Q. Yes, it was Bargain Guy -- Bargain Guy 44. Bargain Guy 44. So, when you found this depth
finder on Bargain Guy 44's site, what did you do? A. I made contact with my supervisors and made plans
to purchase the sonar unit from eBay, and through -from Bargain Guy 44 to try and identify the serial number matching the box that we had. Q. A. And were you the successful bidder for that item? Umm, I was not. Our store manager Randy Smiley
was, and yes, we were, we purchased that item. Q. All right. And let me show you what has been Can you tell the
marked Government's Exhibit 14.4.
court and jury what that exhibit is please? A. Umm, that is the portion of the box that the
sonar unit came from that Randy Smiley purchased for our store. Q. That's the mailing label?
09:40:37 09:40:37 09:40:41 09:40:42 09:40:46 09:40:50 09:40:52 09:40:54 09:40:55 09:40:57 09:40:58 09:41:03 09:41:05 09:41:06 09:41:08 09:41:11 09:41:12 09:41:14 09:41:17 09:41:23 09:41:24 09:41:29 09:41:30 09:41:30 09:41:32
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes, it is. Show you Government's Exhibit 14.6. Can you
identify that please? A. Umm, yeah, that's a photograph of the box
indicating the serial number of the Lorance unit that we purchased, 050822. Q. And was this photograph taken before you bought
back the unit? A. Yes, it was. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time the
government offers Government's Exhibit 14.4 and 14.6. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 14.4 and 14.6. BY MS. PARKER: Q. I'm going to put these up probably in reverse You've identified that Any objection? No objections. At this time court admits
order, but starting with 14.6.
as a photograph of the empty box you found at Cabela's? A. Q. item? A. Q. A. Yes, it is. Is that this number? No, ma'am, it's in pink. That is correct. All right. And the serial number is on this
09:41:34 09:41:35 09:41:37 09:41:37 09:41:38 09:41:40 09:41:40 09:41:48 09:41:53 09:41:56 09:41:58 09:41:58 09:42:01 09:42:02 09:42:08 09:42:08 09:42:09 09:42:11 09:42:13 09:42:16 09:42:19 09:42:24 09:42:24 09:42:26 09:42:31
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Oh, up here? Nope, just down below there. Oh, there? Right there. 050822? Yes, ma'am. All right. Then you said you received the item
back because Randy Smiley was the successful bidder, and I am putting up Exhibit 14.4 that you've identified as the mailing label, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Kansas? A. Q. Yes, ma'am, that was his residence. All right. And where did the item -- what does Yes, ma'am. And this shows that it went back to Mr. Smiley? Yes, ma'am. All right. And at an address in Tonganoxie,
this mailing label show the item came from? A. Q. From Yellow House Store in Topeka. All right. Finally, I'm going to show you what's
all ready in evidence as Government's Exhibit 14.5. A. Q. A. Yes. Do you recognize this picture? Umm, yes, it's the contents of the box, the items
that were purchased back from the eBay purchase.
09:42:35 09:42:39 09:42:43 09:42:45 09:42:46 09:42:48 09:42:52 09:42:57 09:42:58 09:43:03 09:43:04 09:43:06 09:43:07 09:43:10 09:43:11 09:43:12 09:43:15 09:43:15 09:43:18 09:43:18 09:43:22 09:43:26 09:43:31 09:43:32 09:43:32
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
Now, the box that's visible here, did that box
come in the mailing from the Topeka Yellow House Store? A. No, ma'am, that was the box that we had in our
possession that was left behind. Q. All right. And these items, there's -- looks
like three, maybe more, but there are two packages and then a little square looks like the fish finder itself. What -- how did those get to you? A. Umm, those came in the box from the -- with the
Yellow House label on it. Q. A. Q. So, they came to you without a box? Yes, ma'am. Now, is there a serial number actually on the
unit itself? A. Q. Yes, there is, on the back of the unit. And after you compared it, you made what
determination? A. I determined that the serial number on the back
of the unit matched the box that we still had in our possession. Q. Did you ever contact anybody at the Yellow House
Store in Topeka to find out where they got your fish finder or -A. Q. No, ma'am. In the course of your employment at Cabela's?
09:43:43 09:43:43 09:43:47 09:43:48 09:43:49 09:43:50 09:43:52 09:43:59 09:44:02 09:44:04 09:44:05 09:44:08 09:44:10 09:44:11 09:44:17 09:44:19 09:44:23 09:44:25 09:44:30 09:44:34 09:44:36 09:44:37 09:44:40 09:44:44 09:44:48
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes. Did you come into contact with a person named
James Ludwig? A. Q. Yes, I did, ma'am. All right. And do you remember approximately
when that was? A. It would have been late November of 2005, maybe I don't remember exact dates.
early 2006. Q. A.
About the same time that all this -Yes, it was actually in reference to the same
time period that this was occurring. Q. And how did you come into contact with
Mr. Ludwig? A. Umm, we had had numerous thefts. We had a
firearm that was attempted theft, and we were able to identify an individual from that, and we started watching for that individual to come back in the building, and at a later date, Mr. Ludwig came back into our building and actually tried to steal a sonar unit. Q. And what's a -- how's a sonar unit different than
a depth finder? A. They are -- they are the same, just multiple
different - depth finder, fish finder, sonar unit multiple different names for the same item. He picked
one of those items up and attempted to leave our
09:44:51 09:44:56 09:44:57 09:44:59 09:45:00 09:45:02 09:45:05 09:45:09 09:45:11 09:45:15 09:45:17 09:45:19 09:45:22 09:45:25 09:45:25 09:45:27 09:45:28 09:45:31 09:45:33 09:45:33 09:45:37 09:45:40 09:45:42 09:45:46 09:45:48
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
building without paying for it in its box, and walk out the doors without paying for it. Q. A. Q. So, he used a different method? He did use a different method. All right. And he didn't get out the door with
his stolen sonar unit? A. to. No, the alarm system went off as it was supposed He then turned around and came back into the store
and refunded the sonar -- tried to -- tried to refund the sonar unit, which at that time, when he did, we arrested him for theft. Q. All right. So, if I understand it, he tried to
get out of the store without paying for the device? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. The alarm went off? Yes. And he did a 180 and came back in and tried to
say he'd bought it and he wanted a refund? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And at that time, while he was waiting to get his
money back, you arrested him, or detained him? A. Actually, we allowed him to make the refund, and
at the point that he took possession of the -- the funds for the refund, we actually arrested him at that point. Q. Thank you, sir. I have no further questions.
09:45:55 09:45:59 09:46:00 09:46:00 09:46:00 09:46:02 09:46:06 09:46:10 09:46:12 09:46:14 09:46:14 09:46:17 09:46:19 09:46:20 09:46:23 09:46:26 09:46:26 09:46:28 09:46:28 09:46:29 09:46:30 09:46:31 09:46:32 09:46:34 09:46:35
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A.
You're welcome. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Cross-examination? Thank you.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA: Q. It's my understanding that you were able to look
at the serial number on the stuff that you purchased and check that with the box to show that was the one that was stolen out of your store? A. Q. Yes, sir. Can you take that serial number just by itself
and trace that back to your store? A. Q. Yes, we can. All right. Thank you. No further questions.
THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: testify? MS. PARKER: THE COURT:
Any redirect on that? No, Your Honor. Was the witness subpoenaed to
He was. Are you asking that he be
released from his subpoena? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes, we are. Any objection, Mr. Duma? No objections, Your Honor. At this time, sir, you are
09:46:36 09:46:38 09:46:41 09:46:44 09:46:45 09:46:46 09:46:47 09:46:52 09:46:54 09:46:57 09:47:21 09:47:22 09:47:25 09:47:27 09:47:30 09:47:58 09:48:03 09:48:05 09:48:09 09:48:11 09:48:13 09:48:18 09:48:20 09:48:23 09:48:24
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
released from your subpoena. free to go.
You are excused.
You're
The only thing that I'll ask is that you
not discuss your testimony, what you've said in here, with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: MS. PARKER: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Your Honor, as its next
witness, Mr. Oakley will be conducting direct examination on Patrick Nieder. UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: Excuse me, Your Honor,
could we please have them move that chair so it's not blocking the exhibits there? THE COURT: Yes. Yes. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: THE COURT:
Thank you. Before you
Please come forward.
sit down, need for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: as you get in there. Yes, Your Honor. Take your seat, and be careful If you would, as you give your
answers to the questions you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Can I move it? Yes.
09:48:25 09:48:26 09:48:27 09:48:28 09:48:31 09:48:31 09:48:33 09:48:35 09:48:40 09:48:45 09:48:46 09:48:48 09:48:52 09:48:58 09:48:58 09:48:58 09:48:58 09:48:59 09:48:59 09:49:00 09:49:02 09:49:03 09:49:03 09:49:06 09:49:07
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 D. your name.
THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
Okay.
Is that all right?
Let's see. Is that all right? Have you start by you stating
THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
Patrick D Nieder. What I'd ask you do, you move
that microphone, grab that down, closer to your mouth. Right there, if you would. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Last name N I E D E R. THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Oakley. Can you -Patrick D Nieder. Can you please spell your name? P A T R I C K. Middle initial
PATRICK D NIEDER, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Mr. Nieder, you're called as witness in this
investigation, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. And did you agree -- agree to cooperate in this
investigation? A. Yes, sir.
09:49:07 09:49:11 09:49:13 09:49:16 09:49:17 09:49:20 09:49:23 09:49:23 09:49:29 09:49:31 09:49:34 09:49:35 09:49:40 09:49:42 09:49:43 09:49:46 09:49:48 09:49:49 09:49:54 09:49:57 09:49:58 09:50:00 09:50:01 09:50:02 09:50:11
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
And were you told by law enforcement that in
exchange for your cooperation, that they wouldn't use anything you said to bring new charges against you? A. Q. Yes, sir. Sir, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about You have a criminal history?
your criminal history. A. Q. Yes, sir.
In 1999, were you convicted in Douglas County of
two counts of aggravated battery? A. Yes, sir. It was a car accident with my kids in
the car. Q. And in 2003, were you convicted in Wyandotte
County of misdemeanor obstruction? A. Q. Yes, sir. And in 2005, were you convicted in Douglas County
of felony theft? A. Q. Yes, sir. And in 2005, were you also convicted in Johnson
County of felony forgery? A. Q. Yes, sir. And in 2006, were you convicted in Douglas County
of three counts of felony forgery? A. Q. Yes, sir. And in 2006, were you convicted in -- looks like
in El Dorado Correctional Facility of felony theft?
09:50:16 09:50:20 09:50:21 09:50:23 09:50:28 09:50:28 09:50:28 09:50:31 09:50:34 09:50:35 09:50:41 09:50:42 09:50:44 09:50:51 09:50:51 09:50:54 09:50:56 09:50:57 09:51:00 09:51:01 09:51:04 09:51:04 09:51:05 09:51:09 09:51:10
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A.
No, not in El Dorado Correctional Facility, I
didn't have no charges, sir. Q. Okay. Did you have a felony theft conviction in
2006 that resulted in you being incarcerated in El Dorado? A. Q. Yes. And then also, did you have a felony theft
conviction again in 2006 in Jefferson County? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, sir. Sir, do you know Guy and Carrie Neighbors? Yes, sir, I do. And how do you know them? We all grew up in Lawrence, Kansas, and then I
know 'em through Yellow House. Q. So, you knew them before you began dealing with
Yellow House, because all three of you grew up in Lawrence? A. Well, yeah, they were older than I was, but yeah,
we -- they grew up in Lawrence. Q. Okay. At some point, did you begin selling items
to Yellow House? A. Q. Yes, sir, I did. And who -- who did you deal with most frequently,
was it Guy or Carrie? A. Carrie.
09:51:11 09:51:14 09:51:16 09:51:16 09:51:19 09:51:21 09:51:24 09:51:24 09:51:25 09:51:26 09:51:26 09:51:27 09:51:28 09:51:31 09:51:32 09:51:37 09:51:37 09:51:42 09:51:42 09:51:45 09:51:46 09:51:49 09:51:50 09:51:52 09:51:55
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
And the Yellow House Store that you sold to, was
it the one in Lawrence? A. Q. Yes, sir. When did you start selling things to Yellow House
in Lawrence? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. '98, '99, right around in there, sir. Okay. If I remember right. Okay. Been a while. Late nineties? Yes. Okay. And when did you stop selling things to
Yellow House? A. Probably 2003, something like that, 2004 maybe, I
don't know. Q. A. Q. Okay. Yes. Sometime in the early to mid 2000's? Yes, sir.
Now, do you remember the first items that you
sold to Yellow House? A. It was a bunch of windows I believe, a bunch of
brand new windows. Q. A. Where did you get these brand new windows? Traded 'em. I dealt cocaine, and they were
traded to me.
09:51:57 09:51:58 09:52:00 09:52:05 09:52:07 09:52:08 09:52:13 09:52:14 09:52:17 09:52:19 09:52:20 09:52:20 09:52:23 09:52:26 09:52:28 09:52:30 09:52:32 09:52:34 09:52:36 09:52:41 09:52:44 09:52:44 09:52:46 09:52:46 09:52:48
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Q. A.
Okay. In -- I mean, you know what I mean, I traded
cocaine for the windows, and then I sold 'em to Carrie. Q. A. Q. Okay. Were you a cocaine dealer at the time?
Yes, sir, I was. And did you ever exchange cocaine for items other
than cash? A. Q. Excuse me, could you -- I'm -Did you ever trade cocaine for property, for
other property? A. Q. Did it all the time. Okay. And you said one of the things you -- you
traded was cocaine for windows? A. Q. Yeah, windows, tile, all kinds of stuff, sir. Okay. I want to talk to you specifically about
the first thing that you sold, you said were windows. You described them as a bunch of windows. remember how many? A. 20, 25 to 30 windows, quite a few windows. I Do you
mean, I can't remember exact number right now, but it was quite a few. Q. A. Q. A. Were these brand new windows? Brand new. How could you tell they were new? They were still in the package.
09:52:49 09:52:54 09:52:56 09:52:56 09:52:59 09:53:00 09:53:03 09:53:08 09:53:10 09:53:14 09:53:20 09:53:23 09:53:26 09:53:30 09:53:32 09:53:34 09:53:34 09:53:37 09:53:40 09:53:44 09:53:47 09:53:49 09:53:52 09:53:52 09:53:55
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
Okay.
And where did you receive them?
You said
you received 'em from -- in exchange for cocaine? A. Q. Right. Do you know where the person that gave them to
you got the windows from? A. Q. No, I never asked that. Other than the brand new windows, what other
types of property would you sell to Yellow House? A. Tile, electric tools, all kinds of stuff, sir,
compressor, I mean, I think the truth be known, I think they even picked up a compressor from there, Lawrence police did, I think is one of my Douglas County charges. Q. Okay. Well, let me talk to you about the You said they
compressor while you're mentioning it. picked up a compressor from there. about? A.
Who are you talking
I think -- no, actually I think it was Jefferson
County that the compressor -- one of my charges in Jefferson County was from the compressor, and they went to Yellow House and picked up the compressor. Q. So, one of your convictions was for felony theft
out of Jefferson County, and that was a compressor that you stole? A. I didn't steal it, but I didn't turn in who did Yeah, I took the charge.
steal it, sir.
09:53:57 09:53:59 09:53:59 09:54:03 09:54:03 09:54:03 09:54:06 09:54:07 09:54:15 09:54:15 09:54:20 09:54:23 09:54:25 09:54:27 09:54:28 09:54:30 09:54:30 09:54:36 09:54:39 09:54:42 09:54:45 09:54:48 09:54:50 09:54:58 09:55:01
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Q. A. Q. County? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Okay.
It was stolen property?
Yes, sir, it was. And that was from -- from someone in Jefferson
Yes, sir. Now, was that a new item or is that a used item? Used item, I believe. Used. Okay. And so, that one was used?
Yes, sir. Other property that you sold to Yellow House, you
said some of it you received in exchange for drugs? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Most all of it, sir.
Most all of it? Pretty much all of it, yeah. And was most of the property new or used? Used. When you first started dealing with the defendant
Carrie Neighbors, did she ever discuss with you the type of property that she wanted? MR. DUMA: leading question. THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: Any response? No, Your Honor. Your Honor, if Judge, I'll object to that as a
it is leading, it's introductory to get the witness pointed in the right direction so I can ask follow-up
09:55:04 09:55:04 09:55:08 09:55:09 09:55:11 09:55:11 09:55:12 09:55:13 09:55:15 09:55:19 09:55:24 09:55:26 09:55:30 09:55:32 09:55:36 09:55:36 09:55:37 09:55:38 09:55:42 09:55:44 09:55:47 09:55:48 09:55:49 09:55:52 09:55:54
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
questions. THE COURT: Objection overruled. Do you
remember the question you were asked? THE WITNESS: please, sir? BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Did the defendant ever discuss with you the type No. Could you ask me it again
of property that she wanted? A. She said electrical things. I mean, power tools.
I mean, put it this way, I took her a lot of stuff, and it always sold anyway. Q. A. Q. Okay. A lot. When you say a lot, how frequently were you Do you know how much stuff you took in?
dealing with Yellow House? A. Q. A. Everyday. Everyday? Or ever other day. Let's say three times a week
to be comfortable. Q. Okay.
How's that.
Most of the time, were you paid in cash or
by check? A. Q. A. Q. Cash. Cash? Yeah. I want to hand you what's been admitted into Sometimes did you receive checks?
09:55:56 09:56:03 09:56:06 09:56:11 09:56:13 09:56:15 09:56:17 09:56:18 09:56:21 09:56:23 09:56:35 09:56:38 09:56:38 09:56:44 09:56:48 09:56:49 09:56:51 09:56:51 09:56:52 09:56:54 09:56:54 09:56:54 09:56:58 09:57:01 09:57:04
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
evidence as Government's Exhibit 122, and directing your attention to 122, this is a notebook that contains copies of checks, and at the beginning is a summary. Would you look at that and let me know if that appears to be the checks that the defendant wrote to you? A. them? Q. You want me to flip through this and look through Is that what you're saying? Yes, sir, if you could just look and verify that
those are -- appears to be copies of checks that the defendant wrote to you. A. Yeah, they're all my signatures on the back, I
mean, yeah. Q. And directing your attention to the first page,
does that appear to be a summary of those checks that follow? THE COURT: admitted? MR. OAKLEY: THE WITNESS: record. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Okay. And I'm not going to go through all of It has, Your Honor. Yeah, it's a pretty good track Has that all ready been
these with you, but for instance, the first check date appears to be September 13th of 2004? A. Yes, sir.
09:57:05 09:57:07 09:57:07 09:57:13 09:57:17 09:57:22 09:57:24 09:57:26 09:57:35 09:57:39 09:57:41 09:57:42 09:57:44 09:57:46 09:57:47 09:57:48 09:57:49 09:57:50 09:57:51 09:57:52 09:57:58 09:58:01 09:58:04 09:58:08 09:58:10
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q.
For $100? Yes, sir. And there's no memo, but looking through the memo
on the checks, it appears there's an edger, a tiller, trimmer, power washer, lawn mower, fans. Are those the
sort of things that you were selling to the defendant? A. Q. Yes. Yes, sir.
Now, do you know if the items that you were
receiving in exchange for drugs were stolen? A. Q. I had a good idea, sir. Okay. And what makes you -MR. DUMA: I'm going to object to that as
being non-responsive to the question. THE COURT: BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. you -A. Q. A. Q. Yes, they were. And how do you know that? The people told me so. Okay. When you sold the items to the defendant, Okay. Do you know whether or not the items that Sustained.
did you tell her whether or not they were stolen? A. I can't say I told her -- told her every one was
stolen, but yes, she knew they were stolen, yes. Q. Did -- you told her some items were?
09:58:12 09:58:15 09:58:22 09:58:24 09:58:27 09:58:27 09:58:27 09:58:34 09:58:34 09:58:37 09:58:40 09:58:45 09:58:49 09:58:52 09:58:57 09:58:59 09:59:03 09:59:05 09:59:06 09:59:07 09:59:10 09:59:13 09:59:17 09:59:20 09:59:22
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A.
I mean, didn't go in there and go, here, this is I mean,
stolen, you know, when I -- I mean, every time. yeah, she had a good idea. MR. DUMA: bench? THE COURT: Come up.
Judge, may we please approach the
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MR. DUMA: was non-responsive. Your Honor, that last response He blurted out that she had a good
idea, and I'd ask that the jury be instructed that that be disregarded. MR. OAKLEY: It was non-responsive, and I
don't object to the court telling the jury, and I will try, and I mean, obviously, I can't control what he says, but I will instruct him to answer the questions I ask, if the court wants me to. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Anything else? No, Your Honor. I'll sustain the objection.
I'll put both counsel on notice, if you ask the witness a question and then you hear their answer, not knowing what it is before you actually hear it, and as they're going through it, hopefully, you interrupt if you know that that's not responsive to your question, and even
09:59:26 09:59:30 09:59:33 09:59:37 09:59:38 09:59:43 09:59:45 09:59:49 09:59:51 09:59:55 09:59:57 09:59:59 10:00:00 10:00:02 10:00:04 10:00:04 10:00:07 10:00:09 10:00:09 10:00:13 10:00:14 10:00:16 10:00:20 10:00:24 10:00:25
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
when they're finished, if it's not responsive, you need to tell 'em that, and tell 'em to answer the question that you're actually asking them. MR. DUMA: Thank you. Please return.
(Proceedings continued in open court.) THE COURT: Objection sustained. In regards
to the witness's last answer to the question he was asked at the time of the objection, the court is going to sustain the objection and strike his response from the record and ask the jury to disregard his last answer. Please continue.
BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Let me ask you this, Mr. Nieder, and please just
answer the question I'm asking. A. Q. Okay. Did you ever tell the defendant that the items
that you were selling to her were stolen? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir, I did. And did you say that more than once? Yes, sir, I did. What was her response to you after you told her
the items that you were selling to her were stolen? A. Q. A. Umm, she still took 'em, I mean. She still bought them from you? Yeah.
10:00:26 10:00:30 10:00:32 10:00:34 10:00:36 10:00:44 10:00:47 10:00:48 10:00:52 10:00:53 10:00:55 10:00:59 10:01:01 10:01:02 10:01:05 10:01:08 10:01:14 10:01:20 10:01:44 10:01:44 10:01:45 10:01:49 10:01:49 10:01:52 10:01:54
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
Did you ever tell her that some of the items that
you were selling, you had received in exchange for drugs? A. Q. No, I never let her know that part of it, sir. Okay. Did you ever tell her that you were
selling drugs? A. Q. I can't say that I did, sir. Okay. Did you testify in this case in front of
the grand jury? A. Q. I believe I -- yes, sir, I did. Okay. Would looking at your grand jury testimony
help you refresh your recollection as far as whether you could have told the defendant that? A. Q. It's been a few years, yeah, that might be okay. Okay. I'm going to hand you a copy of the
transcript, and I want you to read this yourself on Page 8 beginning at Line 14 through Line 24. yourself. A. Q. A. does. Q. Okay. Did you tell the grand jury that you -Okay. Does that refresh your recollection? Yeah. Yeah, it probably does, sir. Yes, it Read that
you may -- that you probably told her? A. Yes, I probably did, yes, sir.
10:01:56 10:01:58 10:02:00 10:02:03 10:02:05 10:02:10 10:02:13 10:02:14 10:02:17 10:02:31 10:02:31 10:02:34 10:02:38 10:02:41 10:02:43 10:02:44 10:02:45 10:02:47 10:02:52 10:02:55 10:02:59 10:03:00 10:03:03 10:03:06 10:03:09
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
Now, as you sit here today, do you remember
whether or not you told her that the items that you sold her you had received in exchange for drugs? A. Q. Yes, sir, they probably -- yes, sir. Okay. Is there any question that -- in your mind
that you told her that the items you sold were stolen? MR. DUMA: Objection to that, Your Honor.
That's a leading question. THE COURT: BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Did the defendant ever tell you what to say if Sustained.
you got caught? A. Yeah, that I wasn't selling 'em there. I wasn't
selling 'em to Yellow House, sir. Q. A. Q. She told you to say that? Yes, sir. What did she tell you to say about the items that
you were -- that you had that were stolen? A. I can't remember. She told me something, sir. I don't I
can't recollect what it was right off-hand. want to lie about it either. Q. Okay.
Do you remember -- do you know what she
did with the items that you sold to her? A. Yeah, she put 'em on the internet and sold 'em, I mean, I'm -- yeah, put 'em
or on eBay or something.
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on the internet or something. Q. A. How do you know that? Because I was there quite frequently, sir, and
like when I took the windows in, the windows were gone a few hours, I mean, and she pretty much told me what she was doing with 'em, so -Q. Okay. You said that you were in there The items that you sold her, did you ever
frequently.
see them in the shop set out for sale? A. Very few of 'em, the ladders and a compressor
maybe is all I remember seeing in there after I sold 'em to her. Q. Been a long time though, could have been more. Sir, I'm now going to hand you what's been marked
as Government's Exhibit 3.1, and that's a copy of a series of three checks. last check. A. Q. A. Q. I direct your attention to the
Does that look familiar to you?
Third one down here, right, or -Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And does that appear to be a check that was Yes, sir, that last check?
written to you from the defendant Carrie Neighbors? A. Yes, sir. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 3.1. THE COURT: Any objection?
10:05:04 10:05:06 10:05:08 10:05:09 10:05:11 10:05:12 10:05:25 10:05:27 10:05:28 10:05:28 10:05:28 10:05:31 10:05:34 10:05:36 10:05:40 10:05:42 10:05:43 10:05:46 10:05:50 10:05:53 10:05:54 10:05:54 10:05:58 10:06:01 10:06:02
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 3.1.
MR. DUMA: THE COURT:
No objection. At this time court admits
THE WITNESS: BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Yes, sir.
Do I set this here?
And sir, that's a copy of the check
that you received from the defendant? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. And -Yes, sir. Direct your attention to the memo line. Does
that appear that that was for a drill sharpener? A. Q. That's what it says, sir, yes. Okay. Now, looking at that check, there appears
that there's a thumb print on it? A. Q. Yes, sir. As well as some information that's been When you sold items to the defendant, did
obliterated.
she ever require you to show a driver's license or any other sort of ID? A. Q. No, sir. When you cashed the check, were you required to
provide the thumb print along with the identification? A. Q. Yes, sir. And looking back at Government's Exhibit 122, the
10:06:09 10:06:16 10:06:21 10:06:28 10:06:41 10:06:46 10:06:51 10:06:54 10:07:00 10:07:03 10:07:06 10:07:08 10:07:13 10:07:14 10:07:16 10:07:17 10:07:18 10:07:20 10:07:24 10:07:32 10:07:32 10:07:33 10:07:36 10:07:40 10:07:44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
summary, that was for the drill sharpener in the amount of $50, Check 10717, is that correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Now, one of the items that you sold on
October 1st -- excuse me, October 7th, 2004 were a couple fans. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Do you remember those particular items?
Yeah, they were brand new ceiling fans. And where did you get those, if you remember it? I got 'em from Tim Brown. And was that in exchange for drugs? Yes, sir, it was. In addition to -- to selling drugs, during the
time period that you were dealing drugs? A. Q. A. That's them. I'm sorry? That's it. MR. DUMA: Judge, could we please just for
the record ask the witness to wait 'til the question's in front of him, and I ask that his last blurt out be stricken. THE COURT: You're making an objection that
his comment prior to being asked a question about the exhibit, the objection's sustained. There has been no
question made directly to the witness about that item, so that objection's sustained, and that response that he
10:07:47 10:07:50 10:07:52 10:07:53 10:07:56 10:07:58 10:07:59 10:08:00 10:08:03 10:08:05 10:08:07 10:08:08 10:08:09 10:08:13 10:08:17 10:08:18 10:08:20 10:08:23 10:08:26 10:08:27 10:08:30 10:08:31 10:08:32 10:08:35 10:08:46
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
may have said is stricken from the record and the jury is told to disregard it. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Okay. Mr. Nieder, just need to be sure that you Please continue.
answer the questions that I'm asking and not comment on other things, okay? A. Q. Yes, sir. Okay. We talked about your drug dealing. Let me
talk to you about your drug use.
At the time that you
were dealing with the defendant, were you yourself using drugs? A. Q. Yes, sir, I was. Okay. Now, I'd like to show you what's been Does that look
marked as Government's Exhibit 153.1. familiar to you at all? A. Q. A. Yes, sir, it does. And why is that familiar?
Because sir, I got about six of 'em, and three of
'em are in my mom's house. Q. drugs? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir. Did you sell any of the six to the defendant? Yes, sir. Sir, do you know an individual by the name of Okay. And did you receive those in exchange for
10:08:48 10:08:49 10:08:50 10:08:53 10:08:55 10:08:57 10:08:58 10:08:59 10:09:01 10:09:04 10:09:07 10:09:07 10:09:10 10:09:11 10:09:16 10:09:18 10:09:20 10:09:22 10:09:22 10:09:26 10:09:29 10:09:33 10:09:35 10:09:47 10:09:56
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Michael Aldridge? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir, I do. And did you ever sell him drugs? Yes, sir, I did. And would you receive property from him in
exchange for drugs? A. Q. Yes, sir, I would. And what did you do with the property that you
received from him? A. House. Q. And the property that you received from him, was Kept some of it and sold some of it to Yellow
it new or used? A. Q. A. Q. new? A. Yes, sir, digital camera, and I mean, I can't Used. Used and some new, I mean.
The new stuff, would it be new and in the box? Yes. And could you tell from looking at it that it was
remember exactly, there was a digital camera that was brand new that I got from him, and I don't -- I can't remember the other stuff. Q. Okay. Quite a bit of stuff.
Let me back you up to the -- to the check
for the drill sharpener that you sold in late October of 2004. Was that a stolen item?
10:09:58 10:10:02 10:10:16 10:10:17 10:10:18 10:10:18 10:10:20 10:10:28 10:10:30 10:10:32 10:10:33 10:10:37 10:10:39 10:10:40 10:10:41 10:10:44 10:10:50 10:10:53 10:10:55 10:10:58 10:10:58 10:10:59 10:11:00 10:11:02 10:11:04
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A.
Yes, sir, it was. MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: No further questions. Cross-examination. Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA: Q. Mr. Nieder, you were a cocaine user and a -- and
a crack cocaine dealer during the period of time that we're talking about, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir, I was. And as a result of your crack addiction, you Would
had -- you have an extensive criminal history. you agree with that? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right.
And during this period of time that
you were selling property to Yellow House, you were using crack cocaine on a daily basis? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Powder cocaine, sir, yes. Oh, it was powder cocaine? Yes. All right. No. But you were using -- you were addicted to powder Would you agree It wasn't crack?
cocaine and using it on a daily basis. with me?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes, sir. All right. Now, you indicated that on the
windows that you first sold Miss Neighbors, that you never asked when you received them if they were stolen, correct? A. Q. No, I never asked where they came from. All right. And you also indicated that you
sometimes sold Yellow House used stuff, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. And some of that stuff, you said a compressor and
maybe a ladder and some other of the larger stuff, you actually saw in her store? A. Q. Yes, I saw the ladder in her store, yes. And I think you said -- I thought you said the
compressor? A. Q. A. not. Q. Now, when you -- when you first gave your And a compressor, too, sir. All right. It -- I was going to say something else, but I'm
statement to the police, right when they walked in the door, you were -- you were at the Winfield Correctional Facility? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right. And the very first thing that you
10:12:08 10:12:13 10:12:15 10:12:18 10:12:20 10:12:21 10:12:24 10:12:27 10:12:32 10:12:34 10:12:38 10:12:40 10:12:43 10:12:44 10:12:47 10:12:49 10:12:51 10:12:54 10:12:57 10:12:59 10:12:59 10:13:02 10:13:02 10:13:05 10:13:07
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said to them was that you wanted to make a deal? A. Q. Yeah, but they wouldn't deal. Well, but let's -- let's go over exactly what
they -- what you did say and what they said, okay? A. Q. Okay. You betcha. You said you wanted to make a deal,
All right.
and you wanted to receive time credited to your prison sentence, and then you were told that that request was going to be forwarded to the US attorney's office handling the case, but before they could get any possible consideration, they needed to know what you knew first, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right. And so, you -- you were trying to cut
your time down on some of your cases, and that's why you talked to 'em, right? A. They couldn't cut my time down, sir. I was all
ready -- I was all ready sanctioned in the department of corrections, so there is nothing they could have done for me. Q. time? A. Well, I'm going to try anything I can, man. I'm trying to get out. I'm Well, but that's not what you said to them at the
in jail. Q.
You'll try anything you can --
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A. Q. A. Q.
But they couldn't. Mr. Nieder, let me ask you a question. Right. Listen to the question and just answer the
question, okay? A. Q. Okay. You were just trying to do anything you could to Yes?
help yourself. A. Q. Yes, sir.
Now, all of these drug dealings, those -- those
occurred someplace other than the Yellow House, correct? A. Q. Yes. I didn't deal drugs at Yellow House, no. I mean, when you talked about you
Correct.
received property in exchange for drugs, that was occurring at -- at a drug house someplace? A. Q. Yes, it was occurring at my house. Okay. And then you would take -- you would keep
some of the property and use it, and then some of it, you would take to Yellow House to sell? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right. And you -- did you ever tell Miss
Neighbors that you were receiving this stuff from a construction job? A. sir. Well, the windows came from a construction site,
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q.
So, is the answer to my question yes? Yes. Now, did you ever tell the police that you went
with Mr. Aldridge to Kansas City to every Office Depot type store and stole a bunch of digital cameras? A. 'em. Q. happen. MR. OAKLEY: improper impeachment. THE COURT: Come up please. Objection, Your Honor, that's Okay. He testified yesterday that didn't ever I sat in the car, sir, and he went in and got
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, he can't impeach
this witness by giving him information about what another witness testified to. MR. DUMA: Yes, I can. That's absolutely Mr. Aldridge denied
why we have it happen like that. that that occurred. would deny it. MR. OAKLEY: he know?
I can ask him why Mr. Aldridge
That's speculation, how would That -- that's argument
That's Mr. Aldridge.
for closing, but that's not proper impeachment of this witness.
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THE COURT:
What authority do you have that
makes you believe that you can impeach this witness, not with his testimony, but the testimony of a third party? MR. DUMA: It wasn't a third party. It was
another governmental witness, and I'm asking -- I'm asking him, do you know why Mr. Aldridge would have denied that you two ever went to Kansas City to steal anything? He can just say no. MR. OAKLEY: Well, clearly, that's
speculation as far as what Mr. Aldridge -- this defendant knows about what's in Mr. Aldridge's mind. THE COURT: What would be the foundation you
would lay with this witness for him to have a basis for that answer about what a prior witness has testified to? MR. DUMA: He's all ready testified that the
government asked him if they knew Mr. Aldridge and if he worked with him stealing property, and the answer to that was yes. THE COURT: Aldridge testified to? MR. DUMA: I'm going to ask him does he know But how would he know what
of any -- can he explain why Mr. Aldridge would have said that he never went to Kansas City with him to steal. THE COURT: And how would he know what
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Aldridge would have thought? question?
Or you ask him the
Is that your question? MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes. Do you know what Aldridge --
what is your question? MR. DUMA: My question will be, do you know
why Mr. Aldridge would have testified that he never went with you to Kansas City? THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: What's your response? Clearly, that's speculation.
It's asking this witness to testify as to what's in Mr. Aldridge's mind. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Anything else? No. Objection sustained. Any other
requests in regards to that last line of questioning or -MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: No, Your Honor. Okay.
(Proceedings continued in open court.) THE COURT: MR. DUMA: BY MR. DUMA: Q. Now, you were asked in your previous statement by Please continue. Thank you.
the police if Miss Neighbors ever asked if the items he
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sold -- that you sold to her were stolen, and you said she never asked that? A. I'm thinking I said yes, she did ask that, but
not every time. Q. Hum. Well, so, you don't remember telling the
police when you first talked to them if Miss Neighbors ever asked if the items he sold were stolen, Mr. Nieder advised never. A. Q. You remember saying that to the police? I don't remember.
No, sir, I don't.
If the police get up and say that you said that,
are you saying that they're not telling the truth? A. I'm saying I don't remember. MR. OAKLEY: objection. THE COURT: BY MR. DUMA: Q. A. Q. All right. But you don't remember saying that? Sustained. Objection, Your Honor, same
No, I don't, sir. So, if -- if you said that in that statement, Would
that's different than what you're saying today. you agree with that? A. No, I wouldn't agree with that.
I was just
saying I don't remember saying it. Q. Okay. Listen to my question. If you had told
the police that when you first spoke to them, that's
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different than what you're saying today, correct? A. Q. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And then when you went to the grand jury,
you said probably that you told her it was stolen, right? A. Q. Yeah, I guess so. So, you went from never to probably, and now
today, it's for absolute sure, right? A. Q. Yeah, I guess so. Okay. And we don't know what you would say
tomorrow? A. Probably not. MR. OAKLEY: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: Objection, argumentative. No further questions. Redirect? Just briefly, Your Honor. Thank you.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. You said that when the officers first approached
you, you wanted a deal where you would receive a reduction on the sentence that you were serving? A. Q. A. Yes, sir, yes. But that was never given to you, was it? Never given to me at all. They couldn't do it. You can't do
I was under the department of corrections.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
it. Q.
And I didn't have any more cases pending. So, the only promises that were made to you is
that the items -- that the things that you were saying would not be used against you? A. Exactly, no. MR. OAKLEY: Honor. THE COURT: Any re-cross on that? No further questions, Your
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA: Q. Well, Mr. Nieder, you just said you didn't have
any more cases pending, correct? A. Q. That's right, sir. You remember telling the officers, the very last
thing you said to them was, he would be willing to testify about everything that he had told officers during the interview for consideration on a pending case that he has in Wyandotte County? A. I didn't have any case in Wyandotte County, sir. I had no
I was sanctioned all to prison all at once. outstanding cases. Q.
All I wanted to know is do you remember saying
that to the police at that time? A. Q. No, I don't. Okay. Thank you. No further questions.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 testify?
THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT:
Any further examination? No, Your Honor. Was the witness subpoenaed to
MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor. Are you asking that he be
released from his subpoena? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: from your subpoena. You're free to go. Yes, Your Honor. Any objection? No objection. At this time you are released
You're excused from the courtroom. The only thing that I'll ask is that
you not discuss your testimony, what you said in here, with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: MR. OAKLEY: Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Your Honor, the United States
calls Detective Sergeant Jerry Greene. THE COURT: Please come forward. Before you
take your seat, I'll ask that you raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: I do. Take your seat. Careful as you
10:22:32 10:22:38 10:22:41 10:22:44 10:22:45 10:22:47 10:22:48 10:22:53 10:22:53 10:22:53 10:22:53 10:22:55 10:22:55 10:22:56 10:22:57 10:23:00 10:23:00 10:23:03 10:23:04 10:23:05 10:23:07 10:23:10 10:23:15 10:23:17 10:23:17
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get in there.
If you would, as you give your answers to
the questions you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. with you stating your name. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Jerry Greene. Please spell your name. J E R R Y. Thank you. JERRY GREENE, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. A. office. Q. And what do you do for the Jefferson County Sir, how are you employed? I work for the Jefferson County, Kansas sheriff's G R E E N E. Mr. Oakley. Have you start
sheriff's office? A. Q. A. Q. I'm a detective sergeant. And what does that mean, a detective sergeant? We investigate criminal activities. And as a detective sergeant, are you in a
supervisory capacity? A. Q. Yes. How long have you been in law enforcement?
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A.
I've worked for Jefferson County since I worked for Dickinson County, Kansas
April 15th, 1983. prior to that. Q. A. Q. 2004.
How long were you at Dickinson County? About a year and a half. I would like to talk to you about December 13th, On that date, were you asked to assist in an
investigation of a stolen air compressor? A. Q. Yes, I was. And during the investigation, was that air
compressor allegedly stolen from McClouth, Kansas? A. Q. Yes. And were you asked to go to the Yellow House
Store in Lawrence, Kansas in an attempt to retrieve that air compressor? A. Q. That is correct. And did you go to the Yellow House Store on
December 13th of 2004? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I did. And did you retrieve that air compressor? Yes, sir. And who did you retrieve it from? Carrie Neighbors. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as
Government's Exhibit 151.1, and ask you if you recognize
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that? A. That is an evidence custody receipt that our
office uses to identify property that was recovered and placed in evidence. Q. And does that evidence custody receipt relate to
the air compressor that you retrieved from Yellow House? A. Yes, it does. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 151.1. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 151.1. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. And sir, this is again 151.1, and this document's Any objection? No objection. At this time court admits
entitled Jefferson County Sheriff's Department evidence custody receipt. Does this just document that you
received that property from the defendant on December 13th, 2004? A. Q. Yes, it does. And the purpose was to hold, and then eventually
that went to your evidence room at the Jefferson County sheriff's office? A. Q. Correct. Now, while you were at Yellow House on that date,
10:25:33 10:25:37 10:25:38 10:25:38 10:25:40 10:25:43 10:25:48 10:25:52 10:25:55 10:25:57 10:25:58 10:25:58 10:26:01 10:26:02 10:26:04 10:26:05 10:26:10 10:26:11 10:26:12 10:26:14 10:26:17 10:26:22 10:26:26 10:26:28 10:26:29
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
did you also obtain some other items related to the air compressor? A. Q. Yes. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Do you recognize that?
Government's Exhibit 231. A.
That is three check stubs from the Yellow House
checkbook indicating that checks had been written. Q. And those -- all three of those check stubs
relate to the air compressor that you retrieved? A. Yes, sir. MR. OAKLEY: Government's Exhibit 231. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: question? (Off the record discussion.) MR. DUMA: you. THE COURT: Exhibit 231. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Now, Sergeant, you said that all three of these At this time court admits No objection, Your Honor. Thank Any objection? Your Honor, may I ask counsel a Your Honor, I'd offer
stubs relate to that air compressor? A. Q. That is correct. And these are -- these are the stubs that are
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
left in the checkbook after the check was written? A. Q. Right. Now, does that -- why -- do you know why there
are three -- appear to be three checks that were written for one item? A. She told me that she had written the first check
to Patrick Nieder for a Craftsman air compressor for $250. After she had written at that check, Mr. Nieder
wanted to purchase a clothes dryer. Q. A. Okay. So, she changed the amount to $230. I don't know
why the second stub was made out to Jimmy -- Jim Nieder rather than Patrick Nieder. Q. A. Okay. The third stub, she wrote a third check for $230.
She said that Mr. Nieder had requested the check be written in Steve Griggs' name. Q. Okay. And so, initially, the air compressor was However, once Mr. Nieder found another
sold for 250.
item that he wanted, that reduced the amount to 230? A. Q. That's what I was told. Okay. Then the -- so, the last two checks are in
230, and the only reason for that is because of the check being written in the name of Steve Griggs? A. Correct.
10:28:06 10:28:07 10:28:07 10:28:09 10:28:10 10:28:10 10:28:15 10:28:20 10:28:24 10:28:24 10:28:24 10:28:28 10:28:31 10:28:37 10:28:40 10:28:43 10:28:44 10:28:44 10:28:54 10:28:58 10:29:01 10:29:02 10:29:04 10:29:07 10:29:10
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DUMA: Q. questions.
MR. OAKLEY:
Your Honor, I have no further
THE COURT: MR. DUMA:
Any cross-examination? Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
CROSS EXAMINATION
Deputy Greene, when you went into the Yellow
House, was the compressor there on the floor on the store? A. Q. Yes. All right. And did you -- did you see the
compressor before you made contact with Miss Neighbors? A. I saw the compressor and told her that I believed
it was stolen, and we went from there. Q. All right. And she was cooperative with you in
your investigation, would you agree with that? A. Q. Correct. All right. And she even went through and -- and
shows -- showed you these three check stubs, correct, or check register stubs, correct? A. Q. That is correct. And were you able to use this to go find Patrick
Nieder, and eventually I think he got arrested for this? A. Actually, he had been arrested. He was in jail
in Douglas County prior to this interaction with Miss
10:29:14 10:29:14 10:29:18 10:29:21 10:29:23 10:29:25 10:29:28 10:29:32 10:29:36 10:29:38 10:29:41 10:29:41 10:29:42 10:29:47 10:29:48 10:29:49 10:29:51 10:29:52 10:29:52 10:29:54 10:29:55 10:29:56 10:29:57 10:29:58 10:29:59
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Neighbors. Q. All right. And did -- did this information help
you put a case on him? A. I really can't -- I'm sure it helped. I can't I
answer that because that was not my investigation. was just asked to go get the compressor. Q. All right. And as to this thing about Steve
Griggs, if Miss Neighbors wouldn't have told you about the fact that Mr. Nieder wanted the check written to Steve Griggs, you wouldn't have ever been able to even know that, would you? A. Q. That's correct. Okay. Thank you. THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: testify? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. Are you asking that he be No further questions. Any redirect? No, Your Honor. Was the witness subpoenaed to
released from his subpoena? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: from your subpoena. Yes, Your Honor. Any objection? No objections. At this time you are released You're free to
You are excused.
10:30:02 10:30:04 10:30:06 10:30:07 10:30:08 10:30:13 10:30:15 10:30:18 10:30:20 10:30:22 10:30:27 10:31:16 10:31:19 10:48:39 10:48:44 10:48:44 10:48:45 10:48:46 10:48:50 10:49:00 10:49:02 10:49:07 10:49:08 10:49:10 10:49:17
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
go.
The only thing that I'll ask is that you not
discuss your testimony with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead and take our morning Please remember your
recess at this time, jury members. admonition.
No one's to talk to you about the case.
And even among yourselves, you can't speak about the case. 10 to 15 minutes. Thank you.
(10:30 AM, jury left.) THE COURT: Court stands in recess. Proceedings
(Whereupon court took a recess. then continued as follows: returned.) THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Miss Parker.
10:48 AM, jury
At this
time the government would call Anthony 'Tony' Reyes. THE COURT: Please come forward. Before you
sit down, need for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: as you get in there. I do. Please take your seat. Careful
If you would, as you give your
answers to the questions you're asked, please speak up
10:49:20 10:49:25 10:49:28 10:49:29 10:49:29 10:49:31 10:49:32 10:49:34 10:49:34 10:49:35 10:49:40 10:49:42 10:49:42 10:49:42 10:49:42 10:49:43 10:49:43 10:49:43 10:49:45 10:49:46 10:49:48 10:49:49 10:49:51 10:49:53 10:49:59
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
loud and clear, and you may need to move your chair closer to the microphone and lean into the microphone, please. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: your name. THE WITNESS: Reyes. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Please spell your name. A N T H O N Y. Thank you. R E Y E S. Anthony Reyes. Anthony L Okay. Have you start with you stating
Miss Parker.
ANTHONY L REYES, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. Mr. Reyes, where do you live? What town do you
live in? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Lawrence, Kansas. And how long have you lived in Lawrence? Most of my life. All right. And what is your occupation?
Mechanic and auto sales -- wholesale. Auto wholesale and mechanic?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. And are you familiar with a business
All right.
in Lawrence, Kansas called the Yellow House? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. And how did you first come to know
about the Yellow House? A. First, I would just go in there, and then also I
bought a computer one time, and then I asked her, you know, do you buy cars and she -Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Who's her? Carrie Neighbors. All right. Yes. And would you describe what she's wearing? A gray jacket. All right. And you went into the Yellow House And do you see her in the courtroom?
and you made contact with Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Yes. All right. And you said you -- initially you
bought a computer? A. Q. Yes. No, I was -- I had a computer to sell. You remember
Oh, you had a computer to sell.
what year that was? A. Q. That was -Approximately?
10:50:53 10:50:56 10:51:03 10:51:11 10:51:16 10:51:22 10:51:26 10:51:28 10:51:32 10:51:40 10:51:41 10:51:43 10:51:44 10:51:50 10:51:53 10:51:57 10:51:58 10:52:01 10:52:02 10:52:03 10:52:06 10:52:09 10:52:10 10:52:11 10:52:16
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Like 2004. All right. Do you remember going in there in
late 2003 to see if she'd buy a car? A. Yes, I read it in the Trading Post that she buys
anything, and she -- she had acquired, asking about. Q. All right. And where did you get the car you
were wanting to sell to her? A. Oh, got it at the auto auction, or I would look
in the paper and look for in the Trading Post, people had 'em for sale, or -Q. And you mentioned the Trading Post several times.
What is that? A. Trading Post is where -- it's like a cheap
newspaper, I guess you could say, because their ads are very cheap. weekly. Q. You could put an ad in there. It comes out
It's a good advertisement. And would you look in the Trading Post and find
cars you were interested in buying? A. Q. Yes. And then on at least one occasion in the Trading
Post, you saw an ad for the Yellow House Store in Lawrence? A. Q. Yes. And was there any mention in that ad that the
Yellow House bought cars?
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A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
Yes. And so, did you take a car to her? Yes. And when was that? There was one occasion I did in 2003 and -And did she buy that car? Yes, she told me she -- she'd like to test drive
it, but she bought it. Q. A. Q. The car wasn't stolen, was it? No. All right. At some point in time, did you go to
work for Carrie Neighbors at the Yellow House? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, I did. And do you remember when that was approximately? That was like late 2003, early 2004. And describe the job you were hired to do there. My job was to -- if she had a customer bring a
car, I was to test drive it, see if it was worth purchasing. If there was something that needed to be
done on it, umm, how much would it cost to get done on it, you know, so she could put it on line and sell it. I was like a consultant, auto consultant I guess I could call myself. Q. And allegedly, at some point in time, did you
also begin to repair cars for Carrie Neighbors?
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A. Q.
Yes, I did.
Yes, I did.
How long after you were an auto consultant did
you move into the repair side of it? A. It didn't take very long at all, because I was She
able to bring in cars that she was interested in.
kind of gave me an idea of what -- you know, what was a good car, what was not. Q. She described the kind of car inventory she was
looking for? A. Q. Uh-huh, yeah. Did you ever steal any of the cars that you
brought to her? A. Q. A. Q. No. Did you work full-time or part-time at the store? Part-time. All right. And how often were you in the store
working part-time? A. Umm, I'd say at least three days a week,
sometimes four. Q. And could you describe for the court and jury
please the kind of business the Yellow House was? A. It was a -- I can't really say a pawn shop,
because she -- she'd always say, no, I can't pawn it, but I can buy, it because I don't have a pawner's -pawn license. But it was more or less a place where
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people would bring stuff in that they wanted to sell. Q. And where she got the items to sell from
customers bringing in things? A. Q. items? A. No, no. There was -- there was occasions where Yes, ma'am. All right. Did Mrs. Neighbors buy only used
customers would bring in brand new stuff in the boxes, and you know, she would say, yeah, I like that. Yeah, But
do you have anymore, you know, something like that. it wasn't always new. There was used and new. It
just -- you know, it varied.
There wasn't a -- you know
-- a consistency of -- you know. Q. When Carrie Neighbors bought new items, did she
have a special place there in Yellow House where she stored them? A. She had 'em right there by her little stand
there, and then pile got really high, she put -- she moved 'em all back to a closet which is out of everybody's -- nobody could see 'em. Q. All right. Did she ever comment in your presence
about why she was moving them back to the closet? A. Well, she said it looked pretty obvious, looked
-- obviously, you know, why are all these boxes doing here, brand new items. So, she just said, you know,
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move 'em back to the closet out of the way. Q. A. Q. Out of the way? Out of the way so nobody could see 'em. Now, in the course of the employment that you had
there at Yellow House, did you become familiar with some of the other people who worked there or frequented that location? A. Q. Yeah, I -- I got to know some people. All right. I'm going to bring up here -- I'm I'm
going to -- not going to ask you to turn around. going to bring up here what's been marked as
Government's Exhibit 131 and ask you to take a look at that. Do you recognize some of the people in that
exhibit? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. All right. And --
Carrie Neighbors. All right. Owner. And her -- she was the owner? He was the
Guy Neighbors, her husband.
owner, also. Q. All right. And did he work exclusively at the
Yellow House Store, if you know? A. No, he would come in and get a refrigerator, too,
and he said that he had a store in Topeka. Q. Did you ever go to the Topeka store?
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A. Q. A. Q. A.
No. All right. Do you know who this is?
That's her mom, Lois. All right. And did she frequent the store?
Yeah, she would come in and -- and help at the
counter if -- if Carrie needed to run and send off packages or anything like that. would be there just to help. would purchase anything. She would always -- she
She was never -- she never
She would never -- she would
just say no, Carrie's not here, but you know -Q. A. She kind of kept an eye on things? Just kept an eye on things. She never bought
anything.
She never -- she was always, you know, just She's not here right now, can you
like a secretary.
come back later, you know. Q. Okay. And you said she would keep an eye on
things when Carrie had to go out and mail things? A. If she had packages that needed to be taken to At
the postal service or one occasion, sometimes UPS. the end there, she was using the US postal service packaging, so she had to send those packages off a certain time of the day. Q. All right.
And do you know what she was mailing
in those packages, not the specific items, but were these items that she was mailing to people who'd bought
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things from her? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Do you know how they bought those from her? Umm, she would sell them on line. All right. Who's this?
Michael Coffman. And was he at the store often? Yeah, he would just sit in the corner there and He just --
just chat with Carrie. Q.
Did you ever know Michael Coffman to buy or sell
anything at the Yellow House? A. Umm, he would buy stuff. Umm, and then Carrie She would -- she would
would sell it for him on line.
even occasionally ask him, hey, you know, such and such item on the internet's not doing well, why don't you go on there and bump it up so we can, you know, make a little money on it, you know, so -Q. So, she'd ask him to place bids on items she was
selling on the internet? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Yes.
To get the price up? Yes. All right. Did he buy items other than items on
the internet? A. Umm, if a customer would come in and say, you
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know, I have this item here, I have such and such, or I have -- I have -- well, I give for instance a -- brought in a -- a -- like a meter, and Carrie said she didn't have no use for it, Mike, you interested in that, and Mike goes, well, how much you want for it, you know, and he'd negotiate it, and he'd get it. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Right. If he wanted it? Right. Right. She did ask. So, he would buy what Carrie didn't want?
Do you know, ever see any money exchanged hands
between him and Carrie when he would bid on line? A. Umm, when money would come in the mail, when like
a payment would come in the mail, like a money order or a check, she would look at it and goes, oh, hey, this is yours, Mike. That's not mine, that's yours. She would
hand him the check or the money order, and he said okay. Q. A. Q. For an item that she sold for him? Yes. All right. Did you ever see him pay her for any
items he bought on the internet that she was selling? A. I never seen that. I just only seen him
occasionally get -- well, he would -- he would get paid, you know. Q. She would give him for stuff that was sold.
For him?
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A. Q.
Uh-huh, yes. But mostly, what you saw him do with the internet
stuff was just pump up the prices? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. At her request? At her request. All right. Who is this?
Patrick Stanwix. And did you know him before you went to work at
Yellow House? A. I knew him six years prior. He knew -- he knew
some family members of mine.
They -- they would hang
out together sometimes at the club. Q. A. Q. A. And what did he do around the Yellow House? He was a repairman. Repairing automobiles like you? No, he would repair washing machines, dryers. He would make sure He
would do service calls for Carrie.
that the -- the vehicle had parts for the washers and dryers. Q. He was just your basic appliance repairman. Did he ever help out with the mailing, packing
stuff or anything that you saw? A. Q. A. I seen him do it one time. Okay. And then who is that?
John Cale.
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Q. House? A. Q. A.
And what did John Cale do around the Yellow
Other than he thought that he was the boss. Boss of what? Basically, you know, when Carrie wasn't around
and back there, he goes, you know, what are you guys doing? We doing this. Well, he -- none of your
business, you know.
That was to me, he was just nosing
around, and that was the best way I could put it. Q. A. Did you ever see him do any work? Every now and then, I -- that's kind of one of
the reasons I came about working on vehicles for Carrie. Mr. Cale thought that where he put a fuse in your car, he thought putting a wire in the fuse would fix the problem. why not? I'm sitting, no, no, you can't do that. Goes
Well, because a fuse is made to blow out if it You put a wire in there like that, you
gets too hot.
jump in a wire like that, you're going to burn the wiring up. So, I yanked it out, and he just kind of And I said, what
walked off, rolled his eyes at me. else have you done around here? MR. DUMA: anything Mr. Cale said. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Sustained.
And he said --
Judge, I'm going to object to
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Q.
At some point in time, did he stop working at
Yellow House? A. back. Q. A. Q. A. When did he come back? He come back like about six months later. And when he came back, what job did he have? Just he was standing up there with Carrie, and He left for a little while, yes, and then he come
kind of whatever she asked him to do, he'd do. Q. A. Q. And then this? That's me. That's you. All right. Did you also become
familiar with some of the customers who came in to sell Carrie things? A. Q. Some of 'em. Bring up here what's been received into evidence Do you see that?
as Government's Exhibit 130. A. Q. Yes. All right.
Do you recognize any of the people in
this exhibit? A. Q. Oh, well, yes. Okay. Which ones, starting at the top row?
Anybody in the top row? A. Q. Lewis Parsons. Norma Payne. James Ludwig.
You recognize all three of them?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it.
A. Q.
Yes. All right. And how often did you see Lewis
Parsons in the yellow house? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. At least once a week. All right. At least. Did you ever see him come in with anybody else? His son. All right. And when they came in, did they have
any particular types of items to sell? A. Yes, they had tool boxes, similar to those that
said Husky. Q. All right. You're pointing to some of the boxes
that are stacked here in front of this table? A. Q. A. Yes. Or back there in the back? Yeah, I was just trying to see the -- oh, there The one that says pro on it.
they are right there. Q. A. Q. A. Uh-huh.
Yeah, they would bring those boxes in, and -Frequently? Frequently, yes. If he didn't do it, his son did
Q.
All right.
Norma Payne, how often would you see
Norma Payne in the Yellow House?
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A. Q. A.
About once a week. What would she bring in? She would bring in small items like clothes or
little miscellaneous items. Q. Did you ever know her to bring tooth brushes? MR. DUMA: Judge, I'm going to object to
that as a leading question. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Small items? Yes, she would bring small, like shampoos or Sustained.
stuff like that. Q. time? A. Yeah, she would bring a few. She would always She bring more than one bottle of shampoo at a
bring 'em in like a Target bag, like she'd went shopping, or you know -Q. Uh-huh. And then you said James Ludwig, you
recognized him? A. Q. A. Q. sell? A. You see that kitchen box right there? Let me see Yes, ma'am. How often would he come in? At least once a week. And do you remember the kind of items he would
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here. Q. A. Q.
Stand there.
The kitchen. You mean this, the Kitchen Aid?
The kitchen box. Yes.
I'm showing you Government's Exhibit 235, the
Kitchen Aid mixer. A. Q. A. Yes. All right. He would bring in items. That is definitely one
of the items that he brought in, and he would bring in other items. Q. I'm going to put that Exhibit 235 up here. Yeah,
Exhibit 235.
This was the type of item that Mr. Ludwig
would bring in? A. Q. Yes. All right. Any other kind of items in particular
you can remember? A. Just very much similar. Sometimes he would have
other appliances. Walt box. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A De Walt?
I seen him one time bringing in a De
De Walt tools. You see those yellow boxes back there? Yes, ma'am. De Walt tools like that? Yes.
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Q.
All right.
Did Mr. Parsons, Miss Payne and
Mr. Ludwig ever bring in used items that you recall? A. Q. A. Q. No, not that I recall. Everything was new in the box? Uh-huh. Now, on the second row, do you recognize any of
the people on this second row? A. Q. Oh, Stacy Barnes. You know Stacy Barnes. How often would you see
her in the Yellow House? A. She would only come in sporadic, but she would When she came in, she -- she had, I want to Musical instruments is what she
come in.
say like a clarinet. had. Q.
And then there was one occasion, she had a violin. Was there something unusual about the times she
brought the violin in? A. Yes, because Carrie had said that the owner of a
musical store there in town had called her and said, hey, if a lady by the name of Stacy Barnes is coming in, her -- I believe she said her credit card that she used was stolen or -Q. A. Q. And Carrie's telling you this? Yeah. That a lady called and said that her credit card
had been stolen, and Stacy Barnes --
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A. Q. A.
Uh-huh. -- was using it? Yeah. And she said that it come back -- on one
occasion, I think she believed she wrote a check, and it was worthless, too, but she was obtaining these instruments illegally, and that she did warn Carrie, and there was -- I believe there was another time that she came in, and Carrie told her, no. and Carrie told her no, you know. Q. All right. After Carrie Neighbors told you about Stacy Barnes came in,
the lady calling and saying that her credit card was being used, did you see Carrie Neighbors buy any musical instruments from Stacy Barnes-Catlett? A. Q. Umm, no. All right. I seen her buy 'em priorly, yeah. And how often would Stacy
Barnes-Catlett bring in musical instruments? A. Q. I only seen her two times. And when Stacy Barnes-Catlett brought in the
violin to sell, did you -- did Carrie tell you how that transaction went? A. No, she just -- she did say that it was a very She got it pretty cheap.
expensive instrument. Q. A. Q.
She got -- who got it cheap? Carrie had got the violin cheap. Oh, so, she did buy it?
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A. Q.
Yeah, she did buy it. Okay. After the she told you about the stolen
credit card? A. Q. Uh-huh. Anybody else in this second row that you
recognize? A. I recognize 'em, but I don't ever see 'em selling
anything to her. Q. All right. How about this last row, do you
recognize any of those people? A. Q. A. Q. store? A. He would come in with another gentleman which is Umm, this gentleman, Wesley. Bateson? Bateson. And how often would you see Wesley Bateson in the
not on here, and say that he had bicycles, motor bike, you know, like the cross country bikes, the expensive ones. Q. A. Bicycles? Yes, like 10 speeds, but the more the newer type
style bikes. Q. All right. And did you ever hear him tell Carrie
where he got the bicycles? A. There was one time that he come in and he said,
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hey, this is not from around here, it's from Kansas City. MR. DUMA: that as hearsay. BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Was he talking to Carrie at the time? Yes. MS. PARKER: And Your Honor, I'm not Judge, I'm going to object to
offering this for the truth of the matter, but to then explain Carrie Neighbors' response to that. MR. DUMA: approach then. THE COURT: Could you come up please? Your Honor, that's -- we need to
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MS. PARKER: Your Honor, this is a statement
clearly made in the course of this conspiracy by someone who is stealing a bicycle which he has all ready -- the witness has all ready testified he sold stolen items to her. That is the whole reason we have the hearsay
exception, which is the -- the conspiratorial statements made in furtherance of the conspiracy, they're negotiating to buy the bicycle. And as I said, we are
not offering it for the truth of the matter, but then to explain her conduct after that. And as such, I believe
11:11:42 11:11:45 11:11:48 11:11:48 11:11:52 11:11:54 11:11:57 11:11:59 11:12:03 11:12:06 11:12:11 11:12:14 11:12:17 11:12:20 11:12:22 11:12:23 11:12:32 11:12:47 11:12:49 11:12:52 11:12:56 11:12:59 11:13:01 11:13:07 11:13:11
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that under both circumstances, this is a hearsay exception, and this should come in as part of the res gestae. MR. DUMA: Your Honor, whenever the
government doesn't have a legitimate reason, I think they throw in res gestae, but res gestae doesn't work when you're talking about hearsay. Number one, there's
been no identification that what is being said here is during the course of the conspiracy. limit, no time-frame, nothing. There's no time
Number two, clearly the
government is interested in getting it in for the truth of what's being said, or they wouldn't be so adamant about trying to get it into evidence. THE COURT: sustained. (Proceedings continued in open court.) BY MS. PARKER: Q. Now, I believe you were testifying you saw Wesley Anything else? Objection
Bateson bring in an expensive bicycle? A. Q. Yes, like a motor -- motor-cross bike. Okay. And did Carrie Neighbors say anything to
him about that bicycle? A. She asked him, where did you get it, you know,
more or less, and he -- he basically -- he straight out told her.
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MR. DUMA:
Object to anything that -- this
has all ready been ruled on. THE COURT: Come back, please.
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MS. PARKER: Your Honor, I expect that this
witness is going to say that he told her that the bicycle was hot, and it was gotten not in Lawrence. I
don't know exactly where he's going to say it came from, I don't remember, but this is clearly a negotiation of a stolen item that was done in the course of the conspiracy. Wesley Bateson testified that -- about the
time-frame in which he dealt with Carrie Neighbors, and so, it -- the whole concept of co-conspirator statements is clearly at issue here. These are co-conspirators'
statements, and all of these people that we have had up here have testified that they sold her stolen items. So, each and every one of them was conspiring with her so that she could fence their stolen items. And so, the
circumstances under which these conversations took place, this is a conversation between him and Carrie Neighbors, and to explain her conduct, his statement to her needs to come in so that the jury has a full understanding of this transaction. And so, as such, I
believe it is -- clearly, it is admissible, it is
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relevant, and it's square inside this conspiracy as it's been charged. MR. DUMA: Your Honor, the problem is that I
don't believe there was ever any testimony as to this statement coming from Mr. Bateson. So, now, we get to
bring -- I can't cross-examine him about this statement, because there was no previous question about this particular statement in front of Mr. Reyes. clearly hearsay. That's
It's a denial of my right to confront First time
witnesses regarding a particular statement. we've heard this will be from this witness. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: Anything else? No.
Please return to your positions.
(Proceedings continued in open court as follows:) THE COURT: a recess at this time. Jury members, go ahead and take Please remember your admonition.
No one's to talk to you, and even among yourselves, you can't speak about that. 10 minute recess. Proceedings
(Whereupon court took a recess. then continued as follows: 11:23 AM.) THE COURT: Thank you.
Jury left at
Please have a seat. Here's where the
You can stay standing, Miss Parker.
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court believes it is at in regards to this evidence, specifically, this witness, the line of questioning that the government has been pursuing at the time of the objection. I've heard your arguments here at the bench Defendant's objecting --
in regards to the objection.
summarizing things -- to this being hearsay if he's allowed to testify about what he overheard Mr. Bateson say to Miss Neighbors. Government's response besides
res gestae is they believe it's a statement made by a co-conspirator during the course of the conspiracy, and as such, should be allowed in. I've mentioned this
before earlier during the trial when something similar to this issue came up, and the court noted that if in fact the co-conspirator's statement were to be allowed in through another witness, the court would have to have conducted in some form a James hearing. that's the issue again. And it appears
At least arguing from the
parties' positions, it appears the court needs to hear an argument from both of you in regards to if in fact the court were to make a James hearing ruling, what would be your arguments based on the evidence in regards to this? MS. PARKER: Your Honor, the government's
evidence -- and I didn't mean to jump in if the court wasn't ready for me to speak.
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THE COURT: MS. PARKER:
Go ahead. The government believes that
there is more than sufficient evidence to establish a conspiracy. We have the co-mingling of the bank
accounts between Guy and Carrie Neighbors at the Lawrence store and at the Topeka store. We have at the
Lawrence store the testimony about the stolen vacuum cleaners that Carrie Neighbors was buying from Laura Helm and Joey Cadenhead, and simultaneously, with the stolen vacuums being sold to Carrie Neighbors at the Yellow House in Lawrence, a similar situation had occurred at the store in Topeka, and when the persons who stole the vacuum took the vacuum cleaners to Guy Neighbors to sell, he said, I can't buy them 'til I talk to Carrie, and that they talked to Carrie, and he got off the phone and said, she said we'll take all you can get. That, in and of itself, would be sufficient to
establish the conspiratorial association between the two of them. But in addition to that, we have a number of
witnesses - Lewis Parsons, Patrick Nieder, and other witnesses who have testified that they told Carrie Neighbors that the items that they were bringing, maybe they only told her once, but they told her that the items they were bringing were stolen, and she bought them anyway. Many of those items, as the evidence will
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show, government's exhibit shows that some of those items were bought by Guy for sale at his web site. Specifically, most recent testimony about the Lorance fish finder that was sold to Carrie but purchased on Guy's web site, again, showing the interdependence of the two of them for merchandise -- and for stolen merchandise. Finally, we have in the defendant's own
words, her conversations with the agent, with the Officer Rantz in an undercover capacity where he told her on two occasions that the items that he was selling her were nabbed off the back of a truck, and she bought them anyway. The frequency with which she dealt with
many of these witnesses, the ones you have heard, who went in day after day after day to her, and to Guy also, indicates that this defendant either had actual knowledge or had -- deliberately closed her eyes to what should have been obvious to her, and that is, that these items were stolen, and that was the only way that these witnesses could get their hands on that much property of that value in such a short period of time. So, I
believe that the evidence is overwhelming that this defendant was engaged in a conspiracy with her husband, and with the folks who came and sold her stolen items, to buy those stolen items, put them on the internet, sell them on the internet, and keep the profits.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 courtroom.) Bateson.
THE COURT:
And specifically, with Mr. Bat--
MS. PARKER: THE COURT:
Bateson, yes. Mr. Bateson, what is the
government's argument or proffer in regards to what the evidence would be regarding this conspiracy? MS. PARKER: I believe that he's -- can I be I think he's going to
excused just to make sure I know?
say that Bateson said it was hot, but if I could have just a moment. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: he's going to say. (Miss Parker exited and then reentered the Yes. I want to make sure that's what
MS. PARKER:
Your Honor, Mr. Reyes said that
what his testimony will be is Tony Reyes (sic) brought a bike in, the one he's described, that the defendant said, you know, is it stolen, because the cops have been in here looking for stolen bicycles, and I don't want to buy anything, you know, if it's going to get me in trouble, or something to that effect, and Mr. Bateson's response was, you don't have to worry. from Kansas City. This one came So,
I got this one from Kansas City.
it's not hot, but it is inferentially an admission by
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Mr. Bateson that he had stolen the bicycle in Kansas City. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Thank you. Mr. Duma.
Your Honor, the problem that the
defense has is that when Mr. Bateson testified, I specifically asked him based upon his previous testimony, did you ever have any direct conversations with her telling her that what he was bringing in was stolen, and he said no, he never had any direct conversations with her. This statement by Mr. Reyes was
not -- he hasn't given a statement to the police before, to my knowledge. MS. PARKER: MR. DUMA: MS. PARKER: your stuff. MR. DUMA: discovery? MS. PARKER: Oh, I don't believe that is. Is this statement in that Mr. Reyes? Yes. Yes, he did. You have that in
He -- when we sat down and prepared him for this, I went much further afield than the officers did when they did -- when they conducted their interview. So, there
is going to be a considerable amount of information that he provides that is not in his statement, and I guess for the record, I would like to put on the record some
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additional conversations that Mr. Reyes is prepared to testify about if the court would like to hear that, so we might be able to deal with all of these at once. THE COURT: individuals? MS. PARKER: individuals. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Okay. And they are all involving They are offered to No, regarding other Regarding Mr. Bateson or other
conversations with Mrs. Neighbors.
prove Mrs. Neighbors' statements and to put those statements into the proper context, and they do go to her knowledge or her willingness to buy and keep stolen property. He will talk about being present when the KU
officer came in to the store and brought the list of stolen bicycles, and to hearing Carrie Neighbors tell the officer as she went down the list, nope, nope, nope, indicating she did not have or had not seen any of the bicycles on the list. After the officer left, she said
to him and anybody else that was in the store, ha, I saw two or three bikes I bought. for knowledge and intent. We intend to offer that
In addition, he will testify
that there were two young boys who -- young men who brought in bikes regularly, the expensive mountain bikes that have all ready been identified, some of which were
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recovered at her house and were stolen, and he will say that on at least one occasion, he heard the boys tell the defendant that the bikes -- the bike was hot, and she bought it anyway. Again, that is to put into
context her action at the time, and goes to her knowledge of stolen items and her intent to buy them in spite of the fact that they were stolen. He will
testify about an instance where a woman came in looking for a ring that had been stolen. to Carrie Neighbors. She described the ring
Carrie Neighbors denied any
knowledge of the ring, and after the woman left, Carrie Neighbors said to the defendant that the ring was in the case, she had it. Again, going to knowledge and intent.
There was another instance where a person came in looking for some medical equipment that was part of an estate that was in probate, and they described the items to Carrie Neighbors, and Carrie Neighbors basically said, I don't know if they're in probate or not. I'm
not giving 'em back, and refused to return the items. And finally, there was an instance where a -- a young man came in and sold Carrie Neighbors a computer. Several hours later, his mother came in with the receipt for the computer, told Carrie Neighbors about the fact that the son had stolen the computer, and asked that Carrie Neighbors return it. And in spite of the woman
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having the receipt, Carrie Neighbors refused to return the computer. All of those are instances which are
highly relevant to the defendant's intent and knowledge, and will require some discussion by the witness of the preliminary conversations that he heard between the defendant and these individuals. And again, as I said,
the individuals' comments are offered to put Carrie Neighbors' responses and her actions after that into the proper context, and not for the truth of the matter asserted. I would like -- we're getting close to lunch,
but I think I have briefed these issues in another case, and I would like an opportunity if the court has any hesitation to credit what I'm saying to present to the court some case law on these subjects, because I think they're very well settled. MR. DUMA: Your Honor, what Miss Parker just
stated would be the grossest violation of the right to confront witnesses that I can possibly imagine. I -- I
can't ask any of the people -- the mother that came in that said her son stole it, I can't ask her if perhaps did Miss Neighbors say to you, if you pay me for it, I'll give it back to you, but if your son stole it from you, that's on you, that's not on me? I mean, and I
will advise the court, to my knowledge, not one of these statements of my client's has been previously disclosed
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to counsel for the defendant. MS. PARKER:
Not one of 'em.
Well, they were not made to a They were
police officer in the course of an interview.
made when I interviewed Mr. Reyes in preparation for his testimony, and as far as I know, defense counsel made no request to interview Mr. Reyes and made no attempt to interview him. I don't think he would have hesitated a
moment to tell you anything he told me. MR. DUMA: And the problem is, now that I
get this late disclosure of this information as to Mr. Bateson, Mr. Bateson's back at CCA. He said he
never said specifically -- I asked him that question -did you ever say anything specifically directly about telling her the property was stolen? He said no, So,
something that -- that was just an understanding.
this is contradictory to what Mr. Bateson testified to, the government's previous witness. So, if they would
have asked Mr. Bateson, did you say this, then at least we'd have the previous statement out there so I could impeach Mr. Reyes with it. MS. PARKER: Well, I believe if defense
counsel wants to call Mr. Bateson, all he need do is ask the marshals to bring him back for the defendant's case tomorrow or the next day. MR. DUMA: That's not how hearsay works.
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That's not how hearsay works. anybody. It's hearsay.
I'm not required to call It's
It's plain and simple.
just hearsay.
Government wants this in for the obvious
reason that they can throw several statements up there that I can't cross-examine anybody about. These two
young -- these two young kids, I can't cross-examine them about whether they were joking about whether they were -- it was just a -- hot meant stealing. cross-examine any of those things. I can't
I mean, that's --
that's why the hearsay rule was originally brought forth, so the government couldn't just bring in statements that were not placed in context at all. MS. PARKER: But we are placing these in
context, and these are statements that were made in the defendant's presence in a conversation with the defendant. The defendant's own statements are clearly
admissible as statements of a party opponent, and the context, the statements of the persons who were engaged in the conversation with her are necessary only to put the defendant's statements in the proper context, and they're -- I'd be happy to brief that. There is plenty
of case law that says if you're not -- if the government or the party offering the statement is not offering it for the truth of the matter, then it's not hearsay, and it's perfectly proper to do that when you are putting
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into context a defendant's own statements, which is what we're doing here. MR. DUMA: Judge, if they don't have the
word hot, stolen, my son stole it, then that -- those statements mean anything. For the government to sit
here, it's almost disingenuous to say it's not being offered for the truth, offered -- and I mean, I -- the court -- please make a ruling is all I ask, and I'll move forward. MS. PARKER: We would like a chance to brief I don't think
this if the court feels it's necessary. it would take us long. MR. DUMA:
And I have no way of getting
access to legal materials to do it at this late date, unless I drive back to my office and come back tomorrow. THE COURT: This is what the court believes
it needs to do at this time is actually take its lunch recess to consider this matter. anyway. It's almost noon It's
It's -- court took its recess 11:30.
almost 11:45.
Have the jury take their lunch recess.
Court's going to review what's been offered from the parties through argument and proffer regarding this, and then make a ruling and give it to you at the time we return for our afternoon session. recess. Court stands in
And for the record, court does not believe --
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it is not going to receive the government's brief at this time, although it's been offered. appreciates the offer. Court
Court believes that on its own,
it will be able to consider the arguments, and the court can do whatever research it thinks is necessary. stands in recess. 1 o'clock. Proceedings Court
(Whereupon court took a recess. then continued as follows: left bench. bench.) THE COURT:
11:43 AM, court
1:10 PM, court returned to
Before we call the jury back in,
the court's going to make a ruling in regards to an issue that was brought before it at the time of our last recess. The witness Mr. Reyes is on the stand. The
government had begun a line of questioning with Mr. Reyes. Defendant objected on the basis of hearsay, The parties' arguments and
among other things.
positions are known to the court and all ready were previously stated on the record at the time the court took its recess. The court after hearing the parties'
positions and arguments decided that its best course of action at that point in response to that was to have the parties take their lunch recess, at which time the court would take under advisement the objection as well as the arguments, and after doing its own review and research,
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relate to the parties its ruling.
At this time, the First, court must
court has two issues in front of it.
decide whether to allow out-of-court statements by Wesley Bateson made to Carrie Neighbors as non-hearsay statements made pursuant to Federal Rules of Evidence 801 D 2 E. The court may allow these statements as
co-conspirator statements if the court determines, number one, by a preponderance of the evidence, a conspiracy existed. Number two, the declarant and And
defendant were both members of the conspiracy.
number three, the statements were made in the course of and in furtherance of the conspiracy. There must be
some evidence in addition to the statements themselves sufficient to establish the existence of the conspiracy and the participation of the declarant and the defendant. Again, upon review, in regards to the
burden, the court finds that this burden has been met with respect to Mr. Bateson, and that his statements may come in as non-hearsay. Defendant mentioned in his
objection that admission of this evidence would be unfair, in part because Mr. Bateson testified that he did not directly tell defendant that the bikes were stolen. The court notes that the proffer of what
Mr. Reyes will testify is that Mr. Bateson said -- will testify that Mr. Bateson said is not directly contrary
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to his in court statement, as Mr. Reyes is expected to testify through the proffer here that Mr. Bateson just told defendant she didn't have to worry, as the bike was from Kansas City. Defendant's objection is overruled.
A second issue is whether to allow Mr. Reyes to testify as to what other individuals said to Carrie Neighbors in his presence. The government gave a number of examples
of statements that the government believes Mr. Reyes will testify to. of hearsay. Defendant objects to each on the basis
Court first finds that any statements made
by Carrie Neighbors are admissible as non-hearsay under Rule 801 D 2 A because they are her own statements. Her
own statements, however, the court believes must be put into context. The court finds that the statements made
by others to Miss Neighbors that elicited her response are not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. That is, they are not being admitted to show
that, in fact, a bike brought in by the two young boys was stolen, but to show the reaction of Miss Neighbors to being told that the bike was hot, and to her knowledge and intent. Likewise, the testimony about the
woman looking for a ring is not being offered to show that the ring had indeed been stolen. And the testimony
about the computer being stolen is not being offered to show that the computer had in fact been stolen. The
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same rationale applies to the other statements that the government mentioned, because the statements are not hearsay, as they are not being offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted, and are necessary to show the context of Mrs. Neighbor's own statements. Defendant's objection is overruled. anything else from counsel? MS. PARKER: Your Honor, may Mr. Duma and I Unless there's
approach the bench just very briefly? THE COURT: Yes.
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MS. PARKER: This is not a big deal. I am
embarrassed to have to make this record, but I had a nose bleed over the lunch hour. brought it on. I don't know what
I think it's okay, but if I suddenly
grab a tissue and stick it to my nose, I might need a little break. I don't want to call attention to it in It will look like I'm looking for
front of the jury.
sympathy, but -- so, I just wanted to let you know that I'll do what I can. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Is it okay right now? Seems to be okay now. It's
been okay for about 10 minutes, but it just did it. THE COURT: Hmm.
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MS. PARKER:
So -- and I'm on blood
thinners, so that makes things worse. MR. DUMA: is going to be? You know how much longer this guy
Were you close to the end? No, no, I got more statements Maybe
MS. PARKER:
to get into, and I'm thinking maybe 40 minutes. less. Maybe 30. THE COURT:
And then what is your plan for
the rest of the afternoon? MS. PARKER: After this witness, we have a
short witness, and then we will have this afternoon Stacy Barnes-Catlett, which will be probably about as long as this witness, and then we have Mr. Ludwig who is the $103,000 fellow, but I don't think he'll take very long. We have -- we think we're going to be able to get Would only have one
through all those witnesses today.
left tomorrow, and that will be our summary witness, and we'll have those charts ready for you before you go home tonight. MR. DUMA: THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: Okay. All right. That was it. Have some idea. Thank you.
(Proceedings continued in open court.) THE COURT: Before we call the jury back,
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had a question, Mr. Duma.
I don't know if you had an I don't know
opportunity to speak to your client.
what's going to happen with your case, but if in fact it were to run a certain course in regards to forfeiture allegations that have been made by the government, are you able to tell the court at this time whether or not your client and yourself have talked about it, and whether or not you're going to request on her behalf that if in fact that takes place regarding the forfeiture allegations, that that be a matter presented to the court or to the jury? MR. DUMA: Your Honor, I intended to talk to Since we got kind of Would
my client about that over lunch.
side tracked on this other stuff, I forgot to.
you let me talk to her about it over the 3 o'clock break, and we'll have an answer for you at that time? THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes. All right. Thank you.
Call the jury back.
(1:15 PM, jury returned to court.) THE COURT: Just as a reminder to the jury,
again, for our afternoon session, everyone's had their lunch, but again, our afternoon one, like the one this morning, as you can tell, please be alert, please be attentive to everything that's being presented to you.
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We'll continue where we left off, the government examining their witness. MS. PARKER: BY MS. PARKER: Q. Mr. Reyes, before we broke for lunch, you were Miss Parker. Thank you, Your Honor.
testifying about Wesley Bateson bringing a bicycle in. Do you remember that? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Now, before Mr. Bateson came in with a bicycle
that day, had you been in the Yellow House Store when a police officer from the KU Police Department brought a list of bicycles in? A. Yes, he come in to the -- to the Yellow House,
and he went up to the counter where Carrie was, and he asked her if she recognized any of these -- and he gave her a list of any of -Q. A. What did she do after? She looked over it. MR. DUMA: second, I apologize. Your Honor, excuse me, just one May I have just a continuing
reflection of my previous request on the record, when the rest of this information comes in. THE COURT: record. MR. DUMA: Thank you, Your Honor. Yes, that's noted for the
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BY MS. PARKER: Q. a list? A. A list, yes, of -- of recent stolen bicycles, The police officer from KU gave Carrie Neighbors
they call 'em mountain bikes. Q. A. And did she do anything with that list? She looked at the list, and she said, no, I
don't -- I don't -- I don't recognize anything on there. Q. After the officer left, did she say something
about those bicycles? A. Yeah, she said she seen two of 'em on there that
were -- she had in her possession. Q. Did you hear her tell the officer that she
recognized two bicycles from that list? A. Q. No. No.
And then how long after that time -- that
conversation with the KU police officer was it before Mr. Bateson came in with the bicycle? weeks, months? A. Q. A couple of days after. All right. So, Wesley Bateson comes in with a Were these days,
mountain bike? A. Yes, he comes in with a bike, and she said --
Carrie said that, I'm not going to take no more bikes because there have been a lot of stolen ones, and then
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he replied, this bike isn't from around this area, it's from Kansas City, and then that's when she replied, oh. Q. A. Q. And did she buy the bike? Yes, she did. Now, you were in the store, were you not, on
other occasions besides this one when Mrs. Neighbors bought bicycles? A. Q. Yes. What did she do with the bicycles after she
bought them? A. Umm, she put 'em on the -- in the fence -- behind
the fence, right behind the back door of the property. They were lined up along the fence, and they had yellow stickers on that, and those were her referencely (sic) of looking up the reference number on the computer. Q. So, would you describe the back area? Is it
outdoors? A. Q. Yes. All right. And when you walk out the back door,
describe the area that you came to. A. Umm, the back -- well, the back area, when you
first come up to the property, it's like this, and those were all the washing machines and dryers that we do repairs. There's a back fence area which is an area
about this big, and then over in that area about this
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big is where the bikes were all lined up. Q. All right. And could you -- could you see the
bicycles if you were in the store? A. No, no. They were all behind the fence where you
cannot see 'em. Q. If somebody walked out that back door into that
area, could they see them against the fence? A. Q. store? A. No, the entrance to that area was in the back. Yes, they could. But the entrance to that area was through the
You had to go through where the -- in between the little landing there for the washers and dryers. opening there. Q. A. Did -- were they out of sight? Yes, there was -- at times, there was a tarp over There was an
'em, but most -- for the most of the time, they were just like lined up there, and they're all lined up. Q. A. Q. Did Carrie Neighbors buy bicycles frequently? When she had opportunities. All right. Now, do you -- we're talking about
Government's Exhibit 130, and you had just identified Wesley Bateson. A. Q. Do you see anybody else on that?
This, Marcus Crawford. Okay. And where did you see Marcus Crawford?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3.
A.
He come into the store. (Cell phone ringing.)
BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. All right. And how often did he come in?
There was only a few times that he come in. All right. Do you remember what kind of items he
brought into the store? A. He brought in a Playstation, like a Playstation
The reason I remember him was -MR. DUMA: Judge, I'm going to object.
There's no question in front of this witness. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. How is it you're able to remember Marcus Sustained.
Crawford? A. I was able to remember him because when he came
in to sell that, he had a female acquaintance with him, and he said he didn't want the check written in his name, write it in her name. Q. A. Q. All right. And who was he speaking to?
His girl -- to Carrie Neighbors. All right. And do you know how she made that
check out? A. No. I just know that she had written it out to a
different person than the person that was selling it.
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Q. A. Q.
Anyone else on this chart that you recognize? No, ma'am. Tell me again -- tell the jury again when you Did you say 2004?
went to work at the Yellow House. A.
Late 2003, early 2004, I come for a little bit,
and then 2004/2005, I was there a lot. Q. Now, while you were there at the Yellow House,
did you -- from time to time, were you in the store when people came in looking for items they were missing? A. Q. Yes. All right. Do you remember the time when a lady
came in looking for a ring? A. No, ma'am, no. There was a -- she -- I do
remember -MR. DUMA: that. Judge, I'm going to object to There's no
The question's been answered.
question in front of this witness. BY MS. PARKER: Q. What do you remember? What's the first thing you
remember about somebody coming in looking for a missing item? MR. DUMA: answered that question. MS. PARKER: No. I asked him about a ring. Your Honor, I think he all ready
Now I'm asking about the first time he was aware of
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anyone coming in looking for a missing item. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: she had come in. into the store. BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. A. Did she speak to anyone in the store? Yes, she come up to the counter and -Who did she speak to? And talked to Carrie, and she said, my son That is my computer. And Objection overruled. There was a -- a female, and
She was really irate, and she come
brought you in a computer.
Miss Neighbors replied, well, he has the box, and she says, I have the receipt. Q. And after -- did you see the lady show Carrie
Neighbors the receipt? A. Q. Yes. And did Carrie Neighbors then return that
computer? A. No, she said that, I've all ready paid your son
for the computer. Q. And -- and if I understand you correctly, she
said she -- she was going to keep the computer 'cause she had the box? MR. DUMA: question. Object to that as a leading
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 subjects. subject. question.
THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q.
Sustained.
Why did she tell the lady she was going to keep
the computer? A. Q. Because she paid for it. All right. And do you know if that computer ever
got returned to the woman? A. Q. A. Q. No, I don't. She being who? The owner of the computer. Did you ever hear of someone coming in inquiring She did call the police officer.
about medical items that were in an estate? MR. DUMA: Objection to that as a leading
MS. PARKER:
Your Honor, I'm switching
I'm leading only to change and identify the
THE COURT: THE WITNESS: BY MS. PARKER: Q.
Overruled. Can you repeat the question?
Do you remember some -- somebody coming in, a
person coming in and looking for some items that they said was -- were in an estate, or in a probate estate? A. Q. Yes. What -- tell the jury about that please.
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A.
It was some handicapped stuff, like stroller, and
you know, and -- and they said that it was in an estate, probate, it was in probate. all ready purchased it. Q. back? A. Yes, they did. They said, you know, it's -- it's He had no right All right. Did she give -- did they want that And she replied, well, I've
our mom's, you know, it's estate.
coming in here and selling it, and it was a brother of sister, which he come in there and just sold it. Q. And when they said that, what did Carrie
Neighbors do or say? A. She just said I've all ready -MR. DUMA: Your Honor, I'm going to object This is
to the relevance of this particular testimony. not saying that the property was stolen.
It was saying How is
that there was a dispute in a probate estate.
that possibly relevant to the government's case? MS. PARKER: Your Honor, I believe the
testimony of the witness was that the witness -- the person who came in said that the person who sold it had no right to sell it because it was in an estate. That,
in and of itself, is sufficient evidence that there was no authorization for that person to sell the items, and that Mrs. Neighbors refused to give them back even under
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those circumstances. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Anything else? No. In regards to the objection
having to do with relevance, at this time the court is going to overrule the objection and find that the argument goes more to the weight the jury should give this evidence than its admission. BY MS. PARKER: Q. Switching subjects once again. Did you ever hear Continue.
Carrie Neighbors talking about hearing an announcement on TV that said Target, you know, was cooperating with the government in investigations? A. Yes. It was on the TV that Target was -- had a
forensic team and they were cooperating. MR. DUMA: bench? THE COURT: Yes. Judge, can we please approach the
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MR. DUMA: This wasn't on one of the
proffered statements that counsel gave, so I don't have any idea what this is. But he's not only going -- he's
not only presenting hearsay, he's going to present an expert testimony in terms of forensic evidence from a
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third party. MS. PARKER: Neighbors said. No, no, he's saying what Carrie
Carrie Neighbors -- he testified -- he
is testifying that Carrie Neighbors told him she saw a TV program that discussed how the Target stores had forensic -- their own forensic people who cooperated with the government. This leads into the next question And he's going to say,
which is, well, what did she do?
she said that bar codes mean -- if the bar codes were on the boxes, they could trace 'em back to the stores. This is very relevant to the fact that half the items sitting out there in front this witness on the floor have the bar codes cut off of them. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Anything else? No. I -- I heard him say, I
thought, he was the one that heard the -- his testimony was that he was the one that heard the -MS. PARKER: up. Okay. I'll go back, clear that
You're right, if that's what he said, but my So, I'll clear
understanding was that Carrie said that. that up.
But if he said it to her and got the
response -THE COURT: objection. Here's the ruling based on the
The objection had to do with the witness
testifying about what he heard on the radio, and
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Mr. Duma made the objection, said that was actually not one of the proffers. The question that was actually
asked by the government's counsel was, did you ever hear Carrie Neighbors talking about hearing an announcement on TV that said Target now was cooperating with the government in an investigation? His response was, yes.
It appears that the witness is answering regarding what he heard Carrie Neighbors talk about. make that clearer, you can do so. prior rulings, objection overruled. (Proceedings continued in open court.) BY MS. PARKER: Q. again. Okay. Let me just start with my first question If you want to
Based on the court's
What I'm asking you about is whether or not
Carrie Neighbors ever said anything to you about the Target forensic program? A. She said that they was watching for any stolen Yes, she did comment on it.
items, it was on the news. Q.
And did she talk about bar codes? MR. DUMA: Object to that as a leading
question. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. What if anything did she say about how they trace Sustained.
stolen items?
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A.
They could be traced by the bar codes.
The bar
codes has the inventory date and the location where it is at. Q. A. Q. That's her words, correct? Yes. All right. Did you ever see her cut bar codes
off of any of the items that she took in? A. Q. A. Q. No. Did you ever see anybody else do it? No. At some point in time, did you contact the
Lawrence Police Department? A. Q. A. Q. Umm, I talked to an officer, yes. Remember who you talked to? Officer Leo Souders. All right. And was your conversation with the
officer before or after the first search warrant in December of 2005? A. Q. Before. All right. At the time you contacted the
officer, did you know there was any investigation of the Yellow House going on? A. Q. A. No. What was your purpose in contacting the officer? I was there helping, and that big -- a big
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argument of the computer and the customer had arised, and it was like, it didn't bother them that an item was being taken and -- and they bought it for a cheap price, and they just went on about their business. I also had
a stepsister that went in there, and she had some dolls. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Yes. You saw this? Yes. Who did your stepsister deal with? With Carrie. All right. And what did you see transpire by Now, were you there at this time?
Carrie Neighbors and your stepsister? A. She offered her some antique dolls in the boxes,
and at the time, my stepmother had passed away, and that particular situation was in a probate also. Q. Did you tell Carrie Neighbors that the -- your
mother -- your stepmother's estate was in probate? A. I -- I told her that my mother had passed away, I
told her, and -- and I -- I said, now, it's going to be a big battle with the property, you know, because of my stepsister has a drug and alcohol problem. Well, she
showed up there, and I didn't -- you know, I just set back, you know. I was really aggravated and didn't want
to go in there and storm, and -- but she did offer her
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the dolls, you know, and I made a remark, those are in probate, and she just looked at me and -Q. A. Q. A. Q. You told Carrie those are in probate? Yes. Did she buy them anyway? She hesitated, but she bought two of 'em. All right. So, based on those instances, you
then felt it wise to talk to the police department? A. that. Q. Now, did you at some point in time learn that a I thought it was wise, because you just can't do
search warrant had been served at the house -- at the Neighbors' house and at the store? A. Q. Yeah, I seen it on TV -- TV. And did you continue to work for Carrie Neighbors
after the first search warrants were served? A. months. Q. And when was the last time you worked at the About two months, about a month and a half, two
Yellow House? A. It was about a month and a half, I -- I come
back, and her husband was actually there, and I couldn't -- those weren't -- those were Yellow House's cars, I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that. Q. And was it -- was it a new situation to have her
13:36:01 13:36:03 13:36:09 13:36:12 13:36:14 13:36:16 13:36:18 13:36:22 13:36:25 13:36:26 13:36:30 13:36:33 13:36:37 13:36:41 13:36:44 13:36:46 13:36:48 13:36:53 13:36:54 13:37:31 13:37:32 13:37:33 13:37:34 13:37:43 13:37:43
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husband in the store? A. Totally. There was no -- there was no No, what are
conversation of, hey, I got to fix this. you doing? Where are you going?
You know, he was
always wanting to know what I'm doing, where I'm going. And I just said, hey, I'm not working here. Q. Before the first round of search warrants, how
often would Guy Neighbors be in the Yellow House Store in Lawrence? A. He was -- he would come in, like I say, to get a
refrigerator or something and he was gone, but after that, he was there everyday, and he had -- that's when John Cale come back, and he was watching our every move, like you know, you can't -- you can't do this, you can't -- what are you doing, you know. I just put my hands in
the air, said you know what, I don't need this, so I left. MS. PARKER: further. MR. DUMA: approach? THE COURT: Yes. Your Honor, may we please Thank you. I have nothing
(Proceedings held at the bench, outside the hearing of open court.) MR. DUMA: Judge, there has been something
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in the discovery that identifies somebody as SI, but didn't know that that was this person until just now. So, he has a multi-page statement that I've never been able to review as to this person, and I'm going to need just a little bit of time. I'm sorry. But I never knew
that this person was that person until just now. MS. PARKER: objection to that. Okay. I don't have any
I wasn't aware that you didn't -So, I don't have any
that you didn't know that. objection. time. MR. DUMA: who it was.
But he's had the statements for quite some
I have had.
I just didn't know
And it doesn't -- there's -- if you -- that
context of the statement wouldn't lead you to believe that this -- it was -- it was an employee, and they probably did that on purpose to hide his identity. THE COURT: you need? MS. PARKER: I'll tell you, John. Let me So, how much time do you think
show you, back here in the back is where they talk about the car, the Honda which we talked about, that would identify him as the SI. MR. DUMA: THE COURT: take a 10 minute recess. I would think at most 10 minutes. All right. We'll go ahead and
13:38:50 13:38:51 13:38:55 13:38:57 13:39:00 13:39:03 13:39:05 13:39:08 13:39:51 13:39:53 13:54:10 13:54:13 13:54:13 13:54:14 13:54:15 13:54:15 13:54:17 13:54:22 13:54:26 13:54:28 13:54:29 13:54:31 13:54:32 13:54:32 13:54:35
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DUMA: Q.
MR. DUMA:
(Proceedings continued in open court.) THE COURT: At this time court's going to Please remember your
take a recess, jury members. admonition.
No one is to talk to you about the case.
And even among yourselves, you can't speak about the case. 15 minutes. Thank you.
(1:39 PM, jury left.) THE COURT: Court stands in recess. Proceedings
(Whereupon court took a recess. then continued as follows: returned.) THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Cross-examination. Thank you.
1:54 PM, jury
CROSS EXAMINATION
Now, Mr. Reyes, you testified that you came to
Yellow House when you first sold an -- I think a computer to Miss Neighbors? A. Q. Yes. All right. And that computer was not stolen,
correct? A. Q. A. No. All right. Used. And was it a used or new computer?
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Q.
Used computer.
Okay.
And then you found out
that she did some work with cars, and that's something that you're interested in, so you started coming there to do some car purchases, etcetera, correct? A. Q. there. Yes, sir. All right. And eventually, you came to work You would
You would actually purchase cars.
tell Miss Neighbors how much it's going to cost to fix it up. come in. You would purchase the parts. You would fix the car up. The parts would You would sell it,
and then you and she would split the profit on a 50/50 basis, correct? A. Depending upon if she paid for the car or not.
If I owned the car, if I purchased the car, no, because I would want -- she would -- you know, she would pay for the -- the car, and then I would do the repairs. Or if
I -- she didn't want the car -- purchase the car, she would put it on for me. sell it for you then. She said, okay, I'll -- I'll So, there is -- it was nothing --
not a 50/50 all the time, no. Q. All right. But in any event, you guys had some
sort of agreement where you split the profit at the end of the deal? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, that was all totally legal?
13:55:58 13:55:58 13:55:59 13:55:59 13:56:03 13:56:06 13:56:06 13:56:06 13:56:11 13:56:13 13:56:15 13:56:15 13:56:16 13:56:19 13:56:20 13:56:21 13:56:23 13:56:24 13:56:25 13:56:26 13:56:29 13:56:31 13:56:32 13:56:37 13:56:40
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A. Q. A. Q.
(Nodded.) Okay. Yes. And you really had -- you yourself had no reason Is that right?
to think that you were involved with anything illegal, were you? A. Q. No. Okay. Can you explain, did you ever -- when the
police came in to check for stuff, did you ever run out the back of the store? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No, I would go out to my work area. Why would you do that? 'Cause I don't need to be inside. Did you have warrants out for you at that time? No. Okay. Now, you bought the cars at the auto No. You sure you didn't? I went to the back of the fence. Okay. Where my work area, yes. So, you'd leave the store when the police came,
auction.
Sometimes Miss Neighbors would test drive 'em,
and then -- and then you would do the work, correct?
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A. Q. A. Q.
Yes. All right. Yes. And you were supposed to be out back working on You worked part-time, right?
the cars, right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. But apparently, a lot of the time, you
were inside kind of keeping track of what Miss Neighbors was doing, is that right? A. Q. No, actually I was taking a break. Taking a break. So, all the times of the things
that you've talked about that you witnessed that you told the prosecutor about, that's when you were taking a break, correct? A. Q. Yeah, there's stuff going on all the time. All right. Now, Miss -- you heard Miss Neighbors
say, I don't have a pawn license, I can't pawn property, but I can sell property, correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And sometimes, on occasion, people would
bring in stuff in new boxes, and quite often, it was stuff that was used. A. Q. Umm, yes. Okay. 'Cause I'm just going over what you If I'm wrong, just tell me. Would you agree with that?
testified previously.
13:57:39 13:57:39 13:57:39 13:57:47 13:57:49 13:57:53 13:57:56 13:57:57 13:57:57 13:58:00 13:58:02 13:58:03 13:58:04 13:58:08 13:58:10 13:58:10 13:58:13 13:58:14 13:58:17 13:58:19 13:58:21 13:58:24 13:58:24 13:58:26 13:58:33
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Okay? A. Q. Okay. All right. And you indicated that -- that Miss
Neighbors, when she bought new stuff in the box, that sometimes when the pile got too high, she would take that stuff back into another part of the store that was a closet area, correct? A. Q. Yes. And she would do that because when it got too Would
piled, it looked junkie, and it was in the way. you agree with that? A. Q. I will agree with that. All right.
Now, Carrie's mother was also there
present a lot of the time, correct? A. Q. right? A. She come in. Yeah, she would come in like late Yes, sir. But she didn't do the -- the day to day stuff,
afternoon, early afternoon, yeah. Q. That's probably a poor question. The people that
actually wrote the checks out was Carrie, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And mom didn't do that, did she? If Carrie signed a check for her, yes. Okay. So, sometimes mom was actually --
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A. Q. A. Q.
Sometimes. All right. But she wasn't a purchaser. Right. Now, this thing about -- so, Carrie would
buy stuff and then sell it on eBay or somehow electronically, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. And then sometimes the -- what she put on eBay,
the bid wasn't going well enough, so she would tell Mr. Coffman, go on there and punch it up so we can get some more money, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. Now, to your knowledge, is there anything illegal
or unlawful about that? A. Q. No, sir. No, that's just trying to get more money for what
you're trying to sell, right? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right. Now, did you know Mr. Bateson prior
to the time? A. Q. No. Okay. And when you identified -- was he one of
the ones that you identified on those pictures today? A. Q. Yes, sir. Okay. Did you know his name?
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A. Q.
No, just knew the face. Okay. And this happened, what, five or six years
ago now, right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And you can -- you can remember specific
things that were said, like this stuff's from out of -out of the area, it's from Kansas City. that specifically? A. I actually remember him telling her, yes, that it You remember
was from Kansas City. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. And that struck you as funny at that time?
Well, it struck -Yes or no? No. Okay. And you -- the police officer had come in
and given Miss Neighbors a list, correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, Miss Payne would come in, and
she would bring miscellaneous stuff like she'd been out shopping some stuff and bring it in, I think was your testimony, correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And when James Ludwig came in, he would
bring Kitchen Aid items, De Walt tools I think you said? A. Yes, sir.
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Q. A. Q. A. Q.
All right.
Did his wife also come in with him?
No, she stayed out in the car. Okay. You're sure she never came in the store?
I never seen her come in. Well, that's because most of the time, you were
out back, and the only time you were in the store was on your breaks, right? A. Q. Yeah. And most people just get a couple of breaks a
day, right? A. Q. Whenever it's convenient. All right. You probably just took a couple of
breaks during the course of your day there, correct? A. Q. Yes. You worked most of the time and just took couple
of breaks, like maybe one in the morning and one in the afternoon? A. No, I did more than one break, probably three,
four breaks. Q. A. Q. During the course of the day? Yes, sir. All right. Now, this police officer comes in,
he -- he shows this -- this list of stolen bikes, he leaves, and your testimony is that Miss Neighbors said, I have sold two of those bikes previously, correct?
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A. Q. A. Q.
She had seen two of the bikes that she had. Okay. She had in her possession. So, you took it to mean that two of those stolen
bikes, she had in her possession right then? A. Q. Yes, sir. Okay. And being a law abiding citizen, I assume
you went right to the police and reported that? A. Q. No, sir. Okay. And then these bikes, when they were out
back, okay, you could -- you could access the Yellow House from an open driveway in the back -- in the back parking lot, correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. So, if I walked to the side or back
of Yellow House, I can walk into that back parking lot? A. Q. To the back, yes. Right. And so, the bikes were out there for God
and everybody to see, correct? A. Well, you couldn't see them, because there was a
tall fence going across there, so you could not see 'em in plain. Q. A. You had to go around the property.
Okay. And there was a cape out, you know, Patrick was You tell 'em,
back there, I was back there, you know.
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you can't be back there, you know. on cars. Q. Keep out.
That's where we work
Well, but that's where the bikes got sold from,
correct? A. Q. I don't understand. Well, I mean, those bikes that were back there,
that were stored were for sale, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir. That's how Miss Neighbors made money, right? Yes, sir. So, if somebody came in and said, I want a bike,
they'd have to go back around to where these bikes were, correct? A. Q. No, actually, they would bring 'em up. Okay. So, nobody ever went back and just looked
at the whole slew of bikes? A. Q. A. yes. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, it wasn't like they were hidden in a So, at night time, the bikes were there? And were those bikes stored there then? No. No.
They'd bring 'em up one at a time? They -- if they asked what kind of specific bike,
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shed someplace and nobody could look at 'em, correct? A. Q. No, no, they was open. Okay. Now, let's go to the woman who came in and
said, my son brought in a computer, and he stole it from me, I think is what you said she said, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Yes. But Carrie said, but your son had the box, right? Yes. And Carrie said, I paid for that all ready, And she had a receipt, right?
correct? A. Q. Yes. And Carrie said, if you want to deal with that,
call the police and go after your son, but I can't give you the money back because I've all ready paid for it, didn't she? A. She said that she wasn't giving the money back,
she dealt with the son, and the police officer showed up and come in and confront Carrie. Q. Okay. And what -- did Miss Neighbors have to
give the computer back then? A. Q. No, the officer said he would make a report. Okay. And that -- as far as you know, that was
the end of it, correct?
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A. Q.
As far as I knew, yes. Okay. And then this probate estate, you are not
an expert in probate law, are you? A. Q. A. Q. No, I just know that -Just yes or no please. No. Okay. And so, a lady came in and said this
stroller was in an estate, correct? A. Q. A. Q. And a -- yes, a probate. A probate estate, right? Yes. And you don't really know what that person meant
when she said that, do you? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I did. Did you talk to that lady? No. Well then, the only way you would know what
she -- what she meant by that was if you talked to her. Wouldn't that be true? A. Q. No, I overheard her. And she said, okay. Well, she said, the -- the
stroller was in a probate estate, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir, there was. And a probate estate might mean 10 different
things to 10 different people if they're not lawyers.
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Would you agree with that? A. Q. That -- I would agree with that, yes. Yes. So, you have no idea what that woman meant
when she said that stroller was in a probate estate, do you? A. Q. Yep. Okay. And so, that woman also, if something had
been -- had been weird about the transaction, she could have gone to the police, and the police could have come up there and -- and confiscated the property, correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. But Miss Neighbors said, I'm not giving
you that back because I've all ready paid for it, right? A. Q. Okay? Yes. Thank you. And then the -- the antique dolls.
Your stepsister brought in some property from
your mother's estate? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir. Okay. And did you guys have lawyers then?
Yes, we did. Okay. And that stepsister sold the stuff to Miss That was your testimony?
Neighbors, okay? A. Q. Yes. All right.
But you don't know what Miss
Neighbors' legal responsibility is when two people are
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simultaneously claiming ownership of property, do you? A. In this particular instance, yes, I do, because I
know there's a paperwork in front of me that says these items are listed in the estate probate, period. Therefore, as your documentation stating that they're not to be sold until the estate is settled with the attorney and the people that are listed on the property. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you have money coming out of that estate? Did I what? Were you getting money out of that estate? Yes, sir. Okay. And it was -- made you mad because you
were losing some money that your stepsister, the drugger, was selling to Carrie Neighbors, right? no? A. Q. No. Okay. And then I assume that since that was the Yes or
clearly illegal transaction in front of you, you went right away to the police and reported that as a stolen piece of property. A. Q. A. Q. No. But that made you mad, didn't it? Irritated. Now, this -- this testimony about Wesley Bateson Yes or no? Yes or no?
with the bike, you eventually as a confidential
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
informant were calling the police department in Lawrence, correct? A. No. MR. DUMA: please? BY MR. DUMA: Q. Did you -- did you talk as a confidential Could I have just a second
informant to the Lawrence Police Department? A. I just talked to the Officer Souders, the
first -- the first talk that I had was to Officer Souders. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you talk to Officer Bialek? Yes, I did. Okay. Later on. Okay. And you never told Officer Bialek anything
about Wesley Bateson, did you? A. Q. No. Okay. And you never told Officer Bialek about
the -- the irate female who sold the computer and said that my son said it was stolen, did you? A. Q. A. Q. I mentioned that to him. You did? Yes. Do you know that he recorded that conversation?
14:09:12 14:09:15 14:09:16 14:09:19 14:09:21 14:09:27 14:09:31 14:09:32 14:09:34 14:09:35 14:09:38 14:09:40 14:09:44 14:09:47 14:09:47 14:09:53 14:09:56 14:09:57 14:09:58 14:09:59 14:10:01 14:10:07 14:10:11 14:10:15 14:10:15
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me.
A. Q. A.
The second time, he did, yes; not the first time. Okay. They had one -- more than one conversation with They come to my parents' restaurant.
Q.
All right.
And the talk about the probate stuff
of your stepsister, did you also talk to Officer Bialek about that? A. No, I talked to Miss Neighbors about it. I just
mentioned it to her. Q. Okay. So, when you -- when you finally talked to
the police, you didn't mention Mr. Bateson, you didn't mention your stepsister, correct? A. No, no, I -- that was what the attorney was
handling. Q. Okay. Now, you at one point in time even had an
attorney tell you to quit talking to Officer Bialek, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Originally. Okay. The first meeting. The first.
And you were told that you were not to speak with
Officer Bialek until you had an agreement that you -none of the information would be held against you, is that correct? A. No, no, we -- we had a meeting with my attorney
14:10:21 14:10:24 14:10:27 14:10:31 14:10:34 14:10:35 14:10:38 14:10:41 14:10:44 14:10:46 14:10:49 14:10:52 14:10:57 14:11:00 14:11:03 14:11:06 14:11:07 14:11:09 14:11:22 14:11:26 14:11:29 14:11:31 14:11:36 14:11:40 14:11:43
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
at a later date. Q. Well, did you -- did Officer -- did Officer
Bialek ever tell you that you are not a suspect in the case, and they were only wishing to speak to you as a witness? A. Yes, we said -- he said that, you are not a
suspect, we want you as a witness. Q. And that regarding what you said, you wouldn't be
charged with any crimes, correct? A. He didn't say that. He just said I was a witness
in the case. Q. Okay.
He said I'm not in any trouble. And you took that to mean that you weren't
going to be charged with anything criminally, correct? A. Q. I just took it that I was a witness. But then you hired a witness -- or hired an
attorney, correct? A. Q. No, I've -- I've had that attorney. Okay. Now, on Stacy Barnes-Catlett, once Miss
Neighbors found out that she was -- something was wrong with what she was selling, she quit buying from her, didn't she? A. Q. No, she brought back one more instrument. Do you remember telling Officer Bialek that when
Barnes was selling the instruments, you stated that Neighbors was buying some -- some of the instruments
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
until the thefts got published in the paper. Neighbors quit buying from Barnes. Officer Bialek that? A. Q. Yes. But again, this -Thank you.
Then
You remember telling
Yes or no, please.
No further
questions.
Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: Any redirect? Just one question.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. You started to explain your answer when Mr. Duma
asked you about saying that Stacy Barnes-Catlett -Carrie Neighbors stopped buying from Stacy Barnes-Catlett after she found out about the stolen credit cards. And you said yes, but again, and like you What was the rest of your
wanted to say something else. answer? MR. DUMA:
Your Honor, I had asked a yes or If the
no question, and this is an improper follow-up. government has a question, let her ask it.
But not just
to let him pontificate about what he wants to say about just whatever topic. MS. PARKER: I'm only asking that he be
allowed to finish his answer to Mr. Duma's question in its entirety.
14:12:57 14:12:59 14:13:01 14:13:02 14:13:04 14:13:07 14:13:10 14:13:15 14:13:18 14:13:18 14:13:19 14:13:25 14:13:28 14:13:32 14:13:36 14:13:38 14:13:43 14:13:44 14:13:46 14:13:49 14:13:52 14:13:54 14:13:55 14:13:57 14:13:58
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 no.
MR. DUMA:
That is -- my question was yes or
THE COURT:
There's an objection that's
being made right now in regards to the government's question. This is redirect. You can ask questions that He did mention this
he has covered on his cross. particular individual.
If you have a direct question in
regards to that, you need to ask your direct question at this point. BY MS. PARKER: Q. And my direct question is, after Carrie Neighbors
learned about the purchase of instruments with the stolen credit card by Stacy Barnes-Catlett, did she stop buying instruments from Stacy Barnes-Catlett? A. No, Stacy Barnes come back saying she needed
money, and she sold her an instrument really cheap. Q. A. I'm sorry? Stacy Barnes come back at a later date, said she
really needed money, and she sold her an instrument -another instrument to her really cheap. Q. A. Q. All right. No. Thank you. I have nothing further. Any cross? But it wasn't that violin?
THE COURT:
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
BY MR. DUMA: Q. And sir, in your -- in your statement to Officer
Bialek, when you talked to Officer Bialek about Miss Neighbors, you never told him that Miss Stacy Barnes-Catlett came back in to sell additional stuff to Miss Neighbors after Miss Neighbors found out that she was selling stolen property, did you? A. Q. No, 'cause he never come back. Okay. No further questions. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: testify? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: He was. Are you asking that he be Any further questions? No, Your Honor. Was the witness subpoenaed to
released from his subpoena? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: We are. Any objection? No objections. At this time, sir, you are You are excused. The only
released from your subpoena.
thing that I'll ask is that as you leave, you not discuss your testimony, what you said in here, with anyone else. THE WITNESS: Okay.
14:14:44 14:15:03 14:15:05 14:15:21 14:15:23 14:15:25 14:15:29 14:15:29 14:15:30 14:15:32 14:15:42 14:15:44 14:15:46 14:15:47 14:15:48 14:15:48 14:15:51 14:15:52 14:15:56 14:15:56 14:15:58 14:16:01 14:16:02
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 E E. your name.
THE COURT: MR. OAKLEY: calls Matthew McNemee. THE COURT:
Thank you. Your Honor, the United States
Before you take your seat, need
for you to raise your right hand. THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
(Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: as you get in there. I do. Please take your seat. Careful
answers to the questions that you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes, sir. Have you start with you stating
THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS:
Matthew McNemee. Please spell your name. Last name is M C capital N E M
THE COURT:
Thank you.
You might want to Thank
move that microphone a little bit closer please. you. Mr. Oakley. MR. OAKLEY: Thank you, Your Honor.
MATTHEW MC NEMEE, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having
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been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. A. Sir, how are you employed? I'm a police officer patrolman with the Lawrence
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Police Department in Lawrence, Kansas. Q. And how long have you been a police officer with
the city of Lawrence? A. With the city of Lawrence, it's been a little
over 12 years. Q. And how long have you been employed in law
enforcement? A. Q. 19 years. I'd like to talk to you about August 31st, 2005.
On that date, did you respond to the Jayhawk Motel? A. Q. A. Yes, I did. And why did you go to the Jayhawk Motel that day? I was asked to assist another officer in serving
a search warrant. Q. A. Q. And that motel is in the city of Lawrence? Yes, it is. And that same -- let me back up. Are you
familiar with an individual by the name of Stacy Barnes-Catlett? A. Yes.
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Q.
Earlier that day, had Miss Catlett been arrested
at that motel? A. Q. Yes. And after her arrest, a search warrant was
obtained for her room at the motel? A. Q. Yes, it was. And were you involved in the execution of that
search warrant? A. Q. Correct. I'd like to talk to you about some items that
were found during the execution of that search warrant. And first, I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Government's Exhibit 8.5. A. Q. A. Yes, I am. And what is that? This is a piece of paper that was found amongst Are you familiar with that?
several other pieces of paper in Miss Catlett's motel room. Q. And I noticed that as it's here in court today,
it's contained in a -- a plastic sack with red tape on it. A. Q. A. Q. Is that the way that you found it? No. Okay. Yes. And then after you -- you package it, you put it I packaged this. That's your packaging material?
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in that plastic bag, you put some writing on the outside? A. Q. A. Yes, I did. And what does that writing relate to? That is in relation to the case that it was
logged under along with the date and my name, and my number. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 8.5. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Any objection? Your Honor, I don't know what the What is it?
relevance of this particular document is.
(Attorneys conferring off the record.) MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 8.5. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. A. Q. Sir, the -- there's two sides to that blue card? Yes, there is. And the front side contains some typewritten Can you tell from that what that -- what No objections, Your Honor. At this time court admits
writing on it.
that document is? A. It's a slip of paper that was, I'm assuming,
printed, and at least was from the store Hume Music located in Lawrence.
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Q.
Okay.
And that's typewritten.
Take that from --
on the back, was there some handwritten information? A. Q. Yes, there was. Now showing you 8.5, that's the handwriting that
was on the back side of that? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And the front side was typewritten information? Correct. Okay. Next I'm going to hand you what's been And ask you if
marked as Government's Exhibit 8.6. you're familiar with that item? A. Q. A. Yes, I am. And what is that item?
It is a motel bill from Best Value Hallmark Inn.
It was also recovered from Miss Catlett's motel room during the search warrant. Q. And so, that Best Value Hallmark Inn receipt was
actually found in her room at the Jayhawk Motel? A. Q. Yes, it was. And you collected that as evidence during your
search warrant? A. Yes, I did. MR. OAKLEY: Government's Exhibit 8.6. THE COURT: Any objection? Your Honor, I'd offer
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 8.6.
No objections. At this time the court admits
BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. You said that appears just to be a receipt from
the Best Value Hallmark Inn? A. Q. Yes. And that was found with Miss Catlett's
possessions? A. Q. Yes, it was. Next I'm going to hand you what's been marked as Do you recognize that?
Government's Exhibit 8.7. A. Q. A. Yes, I do. What is that?
It's also a piece of paper -- believes or looks
like it used to be a carbon copy of a credit card along with what appears to be a credit card number, expiration date and zip code written on it. Q. Was that item also found during the search
warrant of Stacy Barnes-Catlett, her room at the Jayhawk Motel? A. Yes, it was. MR. OAKLEY: Government's Exhibit 8.7. THE COURT: Any objection? Your Honor, I'd offer
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 8.7.
No objection, Your Honor. At this time court admits
BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. In addition to the carbon copy of the Visa card,
does it appear that there's some handwritten writing on that card? A. Q. Yes, there is. Finally sir, I'm going to hand you a couple of
documents that have been marked collectively as Government's Exhibits -- be Exhibit 8.4. recognize that? A. Q. A. Yes, I do. And what is that? The larger piece is a copy of the handwritten Do you
receipt and the transaction receipt from Keller Strings, a store in town, regarding a credit card purchase, and the smaller piece is a receipt for a pawn transaction at Jayhawk Pawn also in Lawrence, Kansas. Q. Again, were those two documents found during the
execution of your search warrant at Stacy Barnes-Catlett's motel room at the Jayhawk Motel? A. Q. A. These items were not. Where were those items found? The copy of the printed receipt was collected
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from the owner of Keller Strings, and the ticket pawn slip was recovered from Jayhawk Pawn. Q. Okay. So, let me talk to you about the Keller That was actually obtained from the
Strings receipt. store? A. Q.
Yes, it was. And was that during the investigation of Stacy
Barnes-Catlett that was related to the execution of the search warrant? A. Q. Yes, it was. Okay. Said the other item was found directly
from the pawn shop? A. Q. Yes. And does that relate to the item that was
purchased from Keller Strings? A. The one purchased with the fraudulent card, yes. MR. OAKLEY: Government's Exhibit 8.4. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 8.4. MR. OAKLEY: questions. THE COURT: Cross-examination? Your Honor, I have no further Any objection? No objections. At this time court admits Your Honor, I'd offer
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 testify? Your Honor.
MR. DUMA:
No cross-examination.
Thank you,
THE COURT:
Was the witness subpoenaed to
MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor. Are you asking that he be
released from his subpoena? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: from your subpoena. go. Yes, Your Honor. Any objection? No objections. At this time you are released You're free to
You are excused.
The only thing that I'll ask is that you not
discuss your testimony, what you've said in here, with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: MR. OAKLEY: Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Your Honor, as its next witness
the United States calls Paula Keller Smith. THE COURT: Before you take your seat, I
need for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: I do. Please take your seat. Careful
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as you get in there.
answers to the questions you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: your name. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: I T H. THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Oakley. I'm Paula Keller Smith. Please spell your name. P A U L A. K E L L E R. S M Okay. Have you start with you stating
PAULA KELLER SMITH, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Ma'am, where do you currently live? 412 Rock Fence Place in Lawrence, Kansas. Okay. And how long have you lived in Lawrence?
Year and a half. And what do you do for a living? I'm currently the business manager for the office
of the provost at the University of Kansas. Q. Okay. Have you ever had any involvement in a
music store?
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A. Q. A. Q. owned? A. Q. A. Q.
Yes, I have.
I used to own one.
And when did you own the music store? When? May of 1990 through June of 2006.
And what was the name of the music store you
Keller Strings, Inc. And was it located there in Lawrence? Yes. I'd like to talk to you about a period of time During that time, did you learn
around August of 2005.
that someone had purchased some musical instruments from your store using a stolen credit card? A. Q. I did. And what -- let me back up. What types of
musical instruments did your store sell? A. Q. Violins, violas, cellos and basses. And did you agree to assist the Lawrence Police
Department in that investigation? A. Q. Yes, I did. And at some point, did they show you a photo
line-up of some individuals who may be involved? A. Q. Yes. And did you identify an individual by the name of
Stacy Barnes-Catlett as being involved? A. I did.
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Q.
Let me talk to you about how you came to learn
that the credit card that was provided was stolen. Well, before I do that, let me go ahead and hand you what's been marked as Government's Exhibit 8.1, and ask you to take a look at that. document, ma'am? A. Q. A. I do. And what is that? It's a sales receipt, handwritten sales receipt Do you recognize that
and also a credit card slip from our store, 8/15 of 2005. Q. And was that one of the items that was stolen
using the stolen credit card? A. Yes, actually it was the first item. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 8.1. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 8.1. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. Ma'am, looking at that receipt, there appears to This is a photocopy of two documents. Any objection? No objections. At this time the court admits
be two documents.
What's the one on the left? A. Umm, it's the handwritten sales receipt that one
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of my employees had -- had written. Q. And then the document on the right, the
typewritten document, what is that? A. That's the credit card receipt that comes from
our electronic credit card key pad. Q. Okay. And at the bottom, I see where it says
signature, it says on this document to Stephanie Coup? A. Q. TO is actually what we use for telephone order. Okay. And so, that order actually came in via
telephone? A. Q. Yes, it did. And so, did someone call up purporting to be
Stephanie Coup? A. Q. Yes. And was the credit card information provided over
the phone? A. Q. Yes, it was. Okay. And the purchase of that particular item,
it says viola outfit, and it was for $262.89, is that correct? A. Q. A. Q. person? That's correct. Now, did someone show up and pick up that item? Yes. Did you ever find out -- did you deal with that
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A.
I did not.
It was my employee.
She took the
phone call and actually delivered the merchandise to the person that came in the store. Q. Next I'm going to hand you what's been marked as
Government's Exhibit 8.3, and have you look at that. From the outside of that bag, can you tell what that item is? A. Q. A. Q. A. It's a handwritten sales receipt. And is that from your store? Yes, it is. And what does that sales receipt relate to? It's actually purchase of a violin outfit for
Tracy Miller who was the person supposedly that came in to pick up the viola outfit the first time. Q. And so, that's another transaction with the
fraudulent credit card? A. Q. Yes, it is. Umm, could I borrow a pair of scissors please? And there appears -- there's two pieces of
Thank you.
paper in this bag, and you obviously can't see the one that's on the bottom. Would you take this scissors,
just open the bag and see if you can identify the second document as well? A. Q. Sure. Okay. It's the credit card receipt.
And is that the credit card receipt that relates
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to the handwritten receipt that was also in that item? A. Yes, it is. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 8.3. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 8.3. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. A. Q. you. And let me take those back from you. All right. And I will show them up on the monitor beside And so, the first document is the handwritten Any objection? No objections. At this time the court admits
receipt similar to what we discussed earlier? A. Q. for? A. It's a Knilling Bucharest Model 4, Serial 22801, Yes. And this time, can you read what that item was
used instrument, 4/4 new core shaped case, 4/4 new fiberglass bow. Q. A. Q. Is that for a violin? Yes. Okay. And the next document that was in that
exhibit is the receipt? A. That's correct. It's a credit card receipt.
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Q.
And this time it says TO, which you said was
telephone order, and it's Tracy Miller? A. Q. It is. The earlier one, looking back at Government's Was it reported to you
Exhibit 8.1 was Stephanie Coup.
that those two people were somehow related? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I believe aunt and niece. At least that's what you were told? That's what I was told. And so, was one person going to pick up both of
those items? A. Q. Yes. Next I'm going to show you what's all ready been And
admitted into evidence as Government's Exhibit 8.4. again, is this document a -- a photocopy of the handwritten receipt and then the printed credit card receipt for items that were sold at your store? A. Q. Yes. And this time the total's $960.33.
What item was
being purchased? A. Was also a violin outfit, Pietro Bellini, new
full sized, Serial Number 658, Model PB 43 F, retail price of $1,099, and Jacque Remy bow, Embassy case. Q. And on this credit card receipt, there's a --
does it appear that there's a signature on it?
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A. Q.
It looks like there's two signatures. Okay. Does it appear as though someone was
purporting to sign for someone else? A. Q. Yes. And so, there were three violins that were
purchased from your store using the stolen credit card? A. There was one viola outfit and two violin
outfits. Q. I'm sorry, I'm not a musician so I don't
understand the difference between a viola and a violin. A. Q. A. Q. That's okay. Uh-huh.
But they're different instruments? They are different. Ma'am, I'm next going to hand you a document Does
that's been marked as Government's Exhibit 8.2. that appear to be an eBay listing for an item? A. Q. to you? A. Q. A. Yes. And how is it familiar to you? Yes.
Is the item that -- that is listed there familiar
Umm, it's actually the Knilling Bucharest viola
outfit that was stolen first from the -- from the shop. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 8.2.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 8.2.
THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT:
Any objection? No objections. At this time the court admits
BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. eBay? A. Q. Yes. And does it appear that the seller for that item And so, that item that was stolen was listed on
was Yellowhair Bargains? A. Q. A. Q. Yellow -- Yellow House Bargains. Yellow House or Yellow Hair? I have Yellow House Bargains Shop here. Okay. There's -- directing your attention to the
monitor? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Oh. You're reading from right there, is that correct? Yes. Up top? Oh, right. Let me slide down where it says seller
information. A. Q. Yellow Hair Bargains. Ma'am, next I'm going to hand you what's been
marked as Government's Exhibit 8.8 and ask you to take a
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look at that. A. Q. A. Q. I do.
Do you recognize that?
What is that? It's a photo line-up that I saw in 2005. Earlier, we discussed you identifying someone That's the
through a line-up for the police department. line-up that you looked at? A. Q. That's correct.
I'm going to hand you a pair of scissors and
would ask you to open that bag again. A. Q. Okay. Now that it's open, are you able to see that a
little bit better? A. Yes. MR. OAKLEY: Your Honor, at this time I'd
offer Government's Exhibit 8.8. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 8.8. BY MR. OAKLEY: Q. And ma'am, you were shown a series of six Any objection? No objections. At this time the court admits
photographs, and were you able to identify one of them? A. Q. Yes. Looking at the monitor, I notice that there's a
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circle around one of the photos, the one that's marked number one. Is that the photograph of the person that
you identified? A. Q. Yes, sir. There also appears to be some writing right here.
Do you know what that is? A. Q. A. Q. A. Those are my initials, P K S. Did you put your initials on that form? I did. After making that identification? Yes. MR. OAKLEY: questions. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Honor. THE COURT: testify here? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. Are you asking that she be Was the witness subpoenaed to Cross-examination? No questions. Thank you, Your Your Honor, I have no further
released from her subpoena? MR. OAKLEY: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. Any objections? No objections. At this time you are released
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from your subpoena.
You are excused.
The only thing
that I'll ask is that you not discuss your testimony, anything you said in here, with anyone else as you leave. Thank you. THE WITNESS: MS. PARKER: Thank you. Your Honor, as its next
witness, the government will call Stacy Barnes-Catlett. THE COURT: Come over here please. Come
right over here in front of this chair.
Before you sit
down, I need for you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: seat. Yes, I do. Thank you. Please take your We had that chair.
Careful as you get in there.
We actually moved it behind the -- behind this poster. UNIDENTIFIED MARSHAL: sir. THE COURT: you. If you want to grab it. Thank Yes, sir. Thank you,
As you give your answers to the questions you're
asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: your name. THE WITNESS: My name is Stacy Lynn Okay. Have you start with you stating
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Barnes-Catlett. THE COURT: your name. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: From the beginning? Yes. S T A C Y. Middle is L Y N. What I'll have you do is spell
Last name is B A R N E S-C A T L E T T. THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Parker.
STACY LYNN BARNES-CATLETT, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PARKER: Q. Miss Catlett, you are currently in prison,
correct? A. Q. Yes, that is correct. And you're here today because you have agreed to
cooperate in the investigation of some activity at the Yellow House, correct? A. Q. That is correct, yes. All right. In your case, however, you've also
been convicted of two federal offenses for your participation in that, correct? A. Q. Yes, I have. All right. Isn't it true that in July 21st of
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2008, you were convicted in this case of both the federal felony of aggravated identity theft and the federal felony of wire fraud? A. I don't believe -- I don't know if the date is
correct, 'cause I don't remember when I signed the thing. I do know those were the two charges that I pled
guilty to. Q. A. Q. And you're currently serving a sentence for that? Yes, I am. You are hoping that the judge who sentenced you
will give you some time off for your cooperation in this case, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I'm hoping that will be. Has anybody promised you anything? No. You're just hoping? Yes, just hoping. All right. Now, in addition to the two federal
felonies you've just testified about, isn't it true that on August the 29th of 2002, you were convicted of the felony offense of obstruction in Douglas County, Kansas? A. Q. A. Q. Can you repeat the date? August the 29th, 2002. Umm -Were you ever convicted of obstruction, the
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felony offense of obstruction in Douglas County, Kansas? A. 2002, I thought it was a battery. Is that
correct? Q. Well, if our records show that you were convicted
of the offense of obstruction in 2002? A. It might be the same thing, I'm not real sure. Would that I
know I was convicted of something in 2002. work? Q. All right.
It was a felony offense in Douglas
County, Kansas? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, in Douglas County, Kansas. Judge Malone? Yes. All right. And in 2004, were you convicted of Judge Malone.
the misdemeanor of giving a worthless check in Douglas County? A. Q. That one, 2004? June 17th of 2004, if the records were to show
that, would you have any reason to argue with that? A. Q. No, I'm not going to argue with it, 'cause I -On September the 15th of 2005, were you convicted
of the felony offense of removal of a theft detection device? A. Q. Yes. In Douglas County?
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A. Q.
Yes, I was. On April the 7th of 2008, were you convicted of
the felony offense of attempted theft in Johnson County, Kansas? A. Q. I believe that was 2000-- I pled -I'm not asking when you committed the crime. I'm
asking when you were convicted. A. Q. Okay. I was sentenced, yes, in 2008, yeah. And that was for the felony offense
All right.
of attempted theft? A. Q. Yes. All right. And isn't it true that on June
the 12th of 2009, you were convicted of the misdemeanor offense of theft in Lawrence, Kansas in city court? A. Q. In city, yes. All right. And then isn't it also true that
before that, in 1998, you were convicted of the felony of forgery, two counts of forgery in Douglas County, Kansas? A. Q. Yes, I do remember those. And in 2002, August 29th of 2002, you were
convicted of the felony offense of aggravated battery, again, in Douglas County? A. Q. Yeah, that's the one I was remembering. You -- remembering that one earlier?
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A. Q.
Yes.
Yeah. Now, are you familiar with a store in
All right.
Lawrence, Kansas called the Yellow House? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. jacket. Q. A. What color is it? It's gray. It's a gray shirt and jacket. She's Yes, I am. Do you know Carrie Neighbors? Yes, I do. Do you see her in the courtroom? Yeah. Would you describe what she's wearing today? Looks to be -- I'm not sure if it's a gray
wearing her hair in a ponytail off to a little bit to one side. Q. A. When did you first meet Carrie Neighbors? It's been at least I would say 13, 15 years ago, It's been a while.
might even be 17. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A while ago? Yes. All right. Uh-huh.
In the 1990's?
And how did you meet her? Umm, if I recollect, I first started teaching her
daughter how to sew before I came into -- I mean, I was
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down at the store.
I think it started as I was -- she
had a sewing machine in there, and we got to talking. It was a used one, and I was interested in buying it, and I told her -- we just got on the thing of talking how I used to sew and stuff, and then I started teaching her daughter how to sew. Q. Then at some point in time, did you begin to sell
items to Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Yeah. Was she -- from the time you first met her, was
she operating the Yellow House Store? A. her. Q. And how long after you met her over that sewing How long Yes, yes. It was all ready going before I met
machine did you begin to sell items to her? was it? A. Q. A. Q. A.
Umm, maybe a year, maybe less, I don't -And do you remember the first items you sold her? I think they were VCR's. VCR's? Back when VCR's just came out, that was a big
thing, kind of like DVD players, but they're -Q. A. Q. And was there anything unusual -VHS -- I'm sorry, go ahead. Was there anything unusual -- we can't talk at
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the same time, because the court reporter can't take us both down at the same time. But when you sold Carrie
Neighbors those DVR's or DVD's -- VCR's? A. Q. VCR's. VCR's -- was there anything about those initial
transactions that stick in your mind? A. Q. A. Oh, I'd shoplifted 'em all. When you say all, how many? I had like 33 of 'em, and I -- not all of 'em About 27 of 'em went to her. And over what period of time did you
went to her. Q.
All right.
sell her these 27 VCR's? A. Q. That was about a week worth. Do you remember if this is mid nineties, late If you recall? When they very first came out, so They were a
nineties? A.
I don't know.
that would be -- they were just coming out. pretty high dollar back then. '93, '94, maybe. Q.
I would say, umm, maybe
After you sold Carrie Neighbors the 27 VCR's in a
week, did you continue to sell her items? A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh, yeah, different items. You said you shoplifted the VCR's? (Nodded.) Do you remember what stores you shoplifted them
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from? A. Yeah. They're -- well, not all of 'em, but the
majority was -- most of 'em -- majority came from Wal-Mart, like up here in the Kansas City area, Lawrence area, Topeka area. Q. A. How did you get those VCR's out of the store? I just walked out with 'em in the cart through
the check out. Q. A. Q. Didn't pay for 'em? Huh-uh. Were they in the box when you sold 'em to Carrie
Neighbors? A. Yes, they still had the Wal-Mart sticker on 'em,
showed how much they were worth. Q. And anytime during that week when you were
selling all those VCR's to Carrie Neighbors, did she ask you where you got them? A. She knew it was -MR. DUMA: question asked. THE COURT: Sustained. Ask her that she Judge, it's non-responsive to the
keep her voice up as well. sustained the objection. BY MS. PARKER: Q.
You need to speak up, and I
You have a soft voice.
So, move this, and if you
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could speak into the microphone. A. Q. Okay. All right. And kind of project your voice and
enunciate.
That week that you sold those VCR's to
Carrie Neighbors, did she ever ask you where you got them? A. Yeah, and plus they had the Wal-Mart sticker
still on 'em. Q. All right. And when she asked you where you got
them, what did you say? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Said I took 'em from Wal-Mart's. Did she ever turn any of those away? Mean not want them by turning them away? Uh-huh. No, she took 'em. And then after this initial week of selling to
Carrie Neighbors, what other kinds of items would you sell to her? A. Whoo, let's see. I sold jeans, air compressor,
air humidifier, DVD's, car stereos, like car woofer systems. Q. A. Sorry, I didn't understand that. Car like woofer. I don't know. Like they make
the sound louder. Q. Like car speaker systems?
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A.
Yeah, and we had surround sounds which hook up to The DVD
your TV and make it, you know, theater type.
players, when they came out, DVD's, trying to think of everything. I think there's been bikes, lawnmowers.
Just kind of variety. Q. The items -- the items that you took to Carrie
Neighbors to sell, where did you get them? A. Q. A. Q. Most of 'em were shoplifted. Did you and Carrie discuss your shoplifting? On what to get, yes. Tell me about that. When you say on what to get,
what was that conversation like? A. Depending on like what time of the year, if it's
back to school, it's musical instruments, calculators, sometimes jeans, clothes, and when I'm talking about calculators, I'm trying to talk the scientific type that are high dollar like they use up at the university. Q. time? A. On -- yeah, certain times it was best to buy Now, you said that it would be back to school
certain things, like Christmas times, certain things that were hot that year, it would be the things to go get. Q. A. And how did you know what to get? Umm, usually her and I would discuss it
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sometimes.
Sometimes I would see -- know something that
I'd seen when I was in the store that she -- spaces that were empty, and I go get it sometimes, you know. Q. Now, on the back to school items, you said
calculators? A. Q. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
How did you know what kind of calculator to go
and shoplift? A. She would usually let me know which ones were
in -- which one they were using that semester. Q. A. the -Q. A. If you don't know, just say I don't know. Okay. The ones that I got, she would tell me the Other than that, how did she know? Do you know how she knew? I imagine she talked to somebody that was in
numbers to get. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
So, at back to school time, calculators? Uh-huh. Did you say musical instruments? Uh-huh. Any particular kind of musical instrument that
Carrie Neighbors wanted you to get for her at back to school time? A. When I first started getting instruments, it
started out with just like clarinets, flutes, and if I
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could get a trumpet or something like that, and then it advanced to bigger instruments. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Like the violin. Violins, things like that? Yeah. You said also jeans. Was there a particular time
of year that you brought jeans to Carrie Neighbors? A. Usually, actually, on the jeans, they were pretty
-- as long as they were Levi's and preferably 501's, most of the time it was -- anytime was good. Q. And where did you get the jeans that you sold to
Carrie Neighbors? A. Took them from the stores, too, mostly, your name
brand stores that carry Levi's, like JC Penney's, which is one I don't really know in Lawrence. There's a few
places in Kansas City that you could get -- like go out to the mall. Back then, they had Sears and like
Montgomery Wards and stuff. Q. How did Carrie Neighbors pay you for the items
you brought her? A. Q. checks? A. Yes. Very seldom. The majority of time was cash. All right. Did she sometimes, though, give you
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Q. A. Q. A. Q.
All right.
Why was that, do you know?
Because I don't want a paper trail. That was your idea? It was kind of both of ours. Show you Government's Exhibit 123 which has all
ready been admitted into evidence and identified as a book of checks that were written to you. Do you see
that first check in here says Stacy Barnes-Catlett? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Correct? And do you recognize the signature?
It looks like Carrie Neighbors. And the rest of these checks in here appear to be
the same types? A. Yeah. I can't see what it's for. I can just see
the signature. Q. for? A. Q. A.
Is that what you're wanting?
Well, here, AMP, do you know what that stands
No, I do not. Did you ever sell her an amplifier? Yeah, I'm sure I've -- actually, I have sold her I don't know what given date, but I've
an amplifier. sold several. Q.
Now, I'm going to put up on the overhead, this is Okay?
a summary of the checks that are in this binder.
And do you see that the first check in here is 12/24 of
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'04? A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh, yes. And that's the day before Christmas, correct? Yes. All right. And it shows that you purchased for
her -- or sold to her anyway, miscellaneous book bags. Where would you have gotten those items? A. Q. A. I'm not sure that's what I got. What do you mean by that? It might say miscellaneous book bags, but it was
probably -- since it was $55, it was probably for jeans. I'm not even sure what miscellaneous book bags is. Q. All right. So, in your experience with Carrie
Neighbors, would she sometimes put an incorrect statement on the memo part of the check? A. Yes. Sometimes I -- I just -- she'd put
miscellaneous. Q. And then this shows that you sold -- you had got
a couple of checks in December of '04, correct? A. Q. Yeah. Yes.
And then you got a couple more checks in January
of '05, correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. And one of these, the third one there Did you
-- I'm sorry, the fourth one says groceries.
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sell Carrie Neighbors food? A. Yeah, that would be -- let me see -- that would
have been -- that would have been probably some meat. Q. A. Q. Some meat? Yeah. Where did you get the meat you sold Carrie
Neighbors? A. Took from Dillon's, Checkers, back then
Food-4-Less was also open, I do believe. Q. What kind -- what kind of meat? Anything
special? A. Yeah, umm, the majority of the time, it was like
their high end cuts and their -- like the big packages before they cut 'em down into steaks, like one little package, it's actually like filet mignons, they call it filet, and it's about -- I don't know, I guess you need a description -- like about foot long. Q. A. Like a tenderloin? Yeah, but they're like 40, 50 bucks for one
tenderloin. Q. Did Carrie Neighbors order particular kinds of
steaks or did you just take what you could get? A. cook. Q. Then we show one check in February of '05, and No, usually she give me what kind she wanted to
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none in March.
Does that mean that you were not selling
her things in March of '05? A. Umm, I'm trying to remember if I was incarcerated And that would have to be -- I'd have If I was out, I
or if I was out.
to check that against the record.
was -- I would guarantee that some of it was probably cash. Q. So, this doesn't necessarily mean you weren't
selling? A. Q. A. No. Just that you weren't getting checks? No, and just what's listed on here, since that
was close to Christmas, I know there was probably quite a bit that was probably in cash. Q. Then it looks like you got checks from Carrie
Neighbors on April 16th, April 18th, two on April 27th, and one on April 29th. A. Yeah. Correct?
I'm trying to figure out what the
suitcases were for, but -Q. A. Q. A. You're over here? Yeah. In the luggage part? Yeah, I was just reading down through 'em. Where
are you? Q. All right.
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A.
Yeah, I don't -- I'm not sure about the suitcase I don't know what those were for.
and luggage. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
All right. So, that was probably something that was changed. I'm sorry, something that -Was something different. Not -- it wasn't what it appears in the memo? That way, it doesn't -- 'cause if I would have
several TV's or several amps, we don't want it to come across as several of the same thing in one hit. Q. Then the checks start on May the 4th, and you get
one on the 5th, on May the 6th, on May the 7th, on May the 9th, on May the 10th, on May the 12th, on May the 13th, twice on the 14th, again, on May the 16th, another check on May the 18th, a check on May the 19th, a check on May the 23rd, a check on May the 25th, and a check on May the 27th of '05. Is that pretty
representative of the frequency with which you were visiting the Yellow House? A. Q. A. Yeah. And in this instance, she was giving you checks? Yes, it appears so. There's some of it that's in
there that I don't see, unless it was one of the miscellaneous, which it could be. were the instruments. I don't know if those
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Q. A. Q.
Well, let's go down here. Okay. To this very last one. This is a check that was Do you see that?
written on August the 13th of 2005. A. Q. A. Q. A. sorry. Q. Yeah.
And that says it was $185 for a flute, correct? Yeah, see where you're saying. Pardon me? Yes, I said I see what you're pointing at. I'm
Now, before we start talking about the flutes,
let me show you Government's Exhibit 6.3, and ask you to look at the middle check there on that exhibit. Do you
recognize that as a check you received from Carrie Neighbors on July the 1st of 2005? A. Q. Yes. All right. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time
government offers Government's Exhibit 6.3. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 6.3. BY MS. PARKER: Q. Now, putting Government's Exhibit 6.3 on the Any objection? No objections. At this time court admits
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overhead so we can all see this, do you see this is Check Number 12-- 12700? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. I'm sorry. And it's in the amount of $52, and it says it's
for jeans? A. Q. Correct. And you've all ready testified that you did
regularly sell jeans to Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. A. Q. or so? A. Q. stolen? A. Q. Yes. Now, this is July of '05. Did that have anything Yeah. All right. And would these jeans have been Uh-huh. This would have been five-pair.
Five-pair? I know by the price. By the price. So, you had a regular $10 a pair
to do with the back to school period? A. Probably so. They sell better in that time, they And I know
sell quicker, there's a bigger turnover.
where that five-pair -- I remember those five-pair came from Penney's.
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Q.
How is it that you remember that those are
five-pair? A. Because it was a time of the -- around the
instruments and stuff, umm, some of the other stores are closed out, they don't carry Levi's anymore, and in that year, it would just pretty much in town be Penney's, and I didn't have a car, so I had to have something in town. Q. Okay. Now, you referred to, it was around the At back to school time in
time of the instruments.
2005, did you sell some musical instruments to Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Yes, I did. Want to show you first of all Government's
Exhibit 8.2, this is all ready in evidence, which is an exhibit for a Knilling Bucharest viola with bow and case. A. Did you sell that to Carrie Neighbors? It looks like one of my -- I don't remember the
exact name brand. Q. All right. But the -- it shows that the start
date of this -- wait, let me just put it up on the overhead so we can all look at this together. A. Q. Okay. You do remember obtaining a viola like that about
that time, correct? A. Yeah, there should have been like four or five of
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'em. Q. But we'll get to the individual ones, but we're
just right now going to talk about this one. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. And where did you get that? Downtown at Keller Strings Music. All right. And how were you able to get that
viola out of the store? A. Q. It was all ready paid for. How do you -- how did you know it was all ready
paid for? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. you. 'Cause I was asked to go pick it up. I'm sorry? I was asked to go pick it up. And who asked you to pick it up? Actually Carrie was. I'm sorry? Carrie did. Okay. I'm sorry?
Miss Neighbors. I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding But Carrie asked you to pick it up. Where were
you when you had that conversation with her? A. Q. Probably down at the store. All right. And what name did you pick it up in?
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A.
To tell you the truth, I don't remember if I even There was
had to give a name when I came in the store. a receipt, didn't have to sign. for me just to pick up. Q.
It was all ready set up
Well, how would you -- how would the people in
the store know what to give you if you didn't use a name? A. gave. Q. All right. Let me ask you to take a look at Do you That's just it, I don't remember what name I
what's all ready in as Government's Exhibit 8.1. see here the name Tracy Miller? A. Q. all? A. Q. A little bit. Yes, I do.
Does that name have any familiarity for you at
And where -- what do you remember about the name
Tracy Miller? A. Q. That it ties into the instruments. So, you went in, you asked for the instrument.
Did Carrie Neighbors tell you how the arrangements had been made to get that viola? A. Q. A. No, not at that time. Did she tell you later? No. Actually, I found out later 'cause I -- she
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
told me one of 'em she didn't want, and I took it to the pawn shop. Q. A. Q. Okay. She told me to take it to the pawn shop. Well, let's start with Government's Exhibit 8.3. Do you see that as a receipt for
Let me hand you that.
the Knilling Bucharest viola? A. Yeah, I see it's receipts, but the one I picked
up the instruments, it was that receipt. Q. All right. And you're pointing out the second
page of that which is the -- the receipt? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. The credit card? That was what I was given. I'm sorry? That's what I was given at the store. Let's just put this up. I believe this is all
ready in evidence.
So, when you went to the store, you
were given this credit card receipt? A. Q. Miller? A. Q. A. Yes. Would you have signed that? No, I did not. Yes. Correct? All right. And it says to Tracy
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Q.
But that would have been the name on that receipt
when you picked it up? A. Q. Yes. And what did you do with that exhibit -- I'm
sorry, with that viola? A. It went down to the Yellow House Store to Carrie
Neighbors. Q. Do you know how Carrie Neighbors disposed of
items like that, who she sold them to? A. Well, when I -- in the -- you want -- you want
just the violas or do you want in the beginning, 'cause there wasn't the internet when I first started taking her stuff. Q. I'm talking -- I'm talking about instruments like
this in 2005. A. Well, there's -- they were sold at the store.
Now, I think she put some of 'em on eBay. Q. Show you Government's Exhibit 8.4, which is also
all ready in, and ask you if you can identify the first page of that. A. Q. A. Q. You see that?
Yeah, it's a receipt for a violin. All right. Yes. And can't seem to find my copy, so I'm going to Is that another violin you picked up?
put it on the -- on the screen.
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A. Q.
Okay. But you also recognize the other page of
Government's Exhibit 8.4? A. Q. A. shop. Q. Let's start with the first page of 8.4 which has This one? Yes. Is that a pawn receipt? It's the one I took to the pawn
Yes, it is.
been identified again as a receipt from Keller Strings. Do you see that? A. Q. Yes. Yes, I do.
And this time, it shows Casey Miller as the
purchaser, right? A. Q. Yes. All right. And then it has this transaction
receipt, the actual cash register receipt, correct? A. Q. violin? A. This is the one, I think was more rare, something Yes, it does. And was there something special about this
she -- I took it back down to the store, she told me she didn't want to sell it through eBay. Q. A. Q. You're going real fast. Okay. So, she, who is she?
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A. Q. A. Q.
Miss -- Miss Neighbors, Miss Carrie Neighbors. All right. Yes. And it looks like you would have picked it up, You picked this up at Keller Strings?
this is dated August the 26th of 2005, about that same date? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. All right. Yes. All right. And how did you know to go to Keller Back to school time, correct?
Strings and get this deal -- this violin? A. The same as the way as I knew how to get the
others is Carrie asked me to pick 'em up. Q. So, you went down and picked it up, and where did
you take it? A. Q. To Yellow House Store. You said you didn't have a car. How were you
getting back and forth? A. I just find rides or I'd walk. It's not --
downtown's not that -- really that far, or there's a bus that goes by. Q. A. Q. A. And then you took it to Carrie where? At the Yellow House on 19th and Mass. All right. No. And did she buy that?
That's the one I pawned, she said she did
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not want. Q. A. Q. Let me -- let me just -Okay. One step at a time. The second page of this
exhibit is a pawn receipt, correct? A. Q. Yes. And it shows that Stacy Lynn Barnes is the person
who pawned it? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. And you got $120 or $110?
I believe it was $100. All right. Yes. Oh, and it was a finance charge of $10? Yeah. And then a total -- you'd have to pay a total of $100 here?
$110 to get it out of pawn? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah, that's correct. Did you redeem it? No. And why did you take this $895 violin to the pawn
shop and pawn it for $100? A. Q. A. Actually, she told me to take it. She is? Carrie, Miss Neighbors told me to take it, either
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pawn it or donate it to some school. pawned it, I could have the money. pawned it. Q. A.
So, she said if I So, I took it and
Did she say why she didn't want it? She said it would show up, it's kind of like too
rare or something, it shows up quicker on eBay or something about the numbers on it. Q. A. Q. So, you took that and you actually pawned that? Yes, I did. All right. And you said I believe you never
redeemed it? A. No, I did not. THE COURT: point? MS. PARKER: into another subject. THE COURT: recess, jury members. Go ahead and take our afternoon Please remember your admonition. We can stop here. I'm going Are you close to a stopping
No one's to talk to you about the case, and even among yourselves, you can't speak about the case. 15-minute recess. Thank you. Have a 10,
(3:10 PM, jury left.) THE COURT: Court stands in recess. Proceedings
(Whereupon court took a recess. then continued as follows:
3:30 PM, court
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ex. Q. A. Q.
and jury returned.) THE COURT: MS. PARKER: BY MS. PARKER: Q. Miss Barnes-Catlett, first of all, you have a Please continue. Thank you, Your Honor.
hyphenated name? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Barnes your maiden name? Yes. And what's Catlett? It was -- it's sort of like common law between my
And what was your ex's name? Scott Catlett. Here on Government's Exhibit 123, the very last
check here on this summary list which is a check dated August the 13th of 2005, that was written to whom? A. Q. Says Scott Catlett. All right. Are you familiar with Scott Catlett's
taking a flute to Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. A. Q. That I'm not. All right. No. All right. Now, going back to Government's Nothing you had anything to do with?
Exhibit 8.2, which is the picture of the Knilling
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Bucharest viola with bow? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Right? All right.
I see it. Do you remember picking up one that looked just
like that? A. Q. Yes, I do. All right. Now going to Government's
Exhibit 8.3, do you see the date here that's 8/17 of '05? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I do. Would that be the date you picked it up? Yes. Going back to the summary sheet, do you see any
check here written to you or to Scott Catlett on 8/17 of '05? A. Q. No, I do not. All right. How did you get paid for picking that
up for Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Cash. Show you Government's Exhibit 9.1. Ask you if
you recognize that? A. Q. A. It's the flute from Hume's Music. I'm sorry? It's a flute from Hume's Music.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q.
Hume Music? Uh-huh. All right. H U M E. And did you pick up a flute
from Hume Music? A. Q. Yes, I did. All right. What did you do with the flute you
picked up from Hume Music? A. It went to Carrie Neighbors at Yellow House
appliance store. Q. All right. And how did you know to go to Hume
Music and pick up a flute? A. Actually, I just -- that one there, I don't I remember going to get it, but I don't
really recall.
know if it was Carrie or somebody else that was -- said we needed to go pick it up. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Who else would have asked to go pick it up? Well, back then wasn't a clear picture. Why is that? Because I was using drugs. Were you using some of the money that you got
from Carrie Neighbors to buy drugs? A. Q. Yes, I was. All right. Do you remember what you did with
that flute? A. Yeah, I -- I remember it went down to Yellow
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House, to Miss Neighbors. Q. If you can't remember who asked you to pick it
up, how is it you're able to remember where it went? A. Because I take everything to her, except for the
one violin that she did not want. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time
government offers Government's Exhibit 9.1. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 9.1. BY MS. PARKER: Q. And Exhibit 9.1 is an eBay screen shot for a Is Any objection? No objection. At this time court admits
Gemeinhardt 2SP silver plate flute with hard case. this a picture of the flute you picked up for Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Yes, it is. All right.
And would it have been around August
the 29th when this was put onto the web site? A. That I can't answer. I don't know when she
posted stuff on eBay. Q. it. No, I understand you don't know when she posted But assuming that this date is a correct date,
August, you would have picked it up sometime before August 29th?
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A. Q.
Yeah, I would have picked it up before then. All right. Did you pick up the items from
Hume -- this item from Hume Music before or after you picked up that Keller Strings instrument? A. Q. A. Q. A. I don't remember. Okay. I have to -All right. I think they were -- no -- the Hume's, I think
the Keller was before. Q. All right. So, first you went to Keller and then
you went to Hume? A. I'm trying to remember back the dates. 8/17,
yeah, I believe I went to Hume's first, or I'm sorry, Keller Strings first. Q. Keller? A. Q. Yeah, or it could have been between, I don't -But it -- here on the summary chart of checks So, this would have been after your last trip to
made out to you, there is no check here for a flute, correct? A. Q. No, there's not. And you don't -- wouldn't have had anything to do
with the flute that the check to Scott Catlett was written on?
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A.
No, we were all ready separated and had been for
a few years. Q. So, the absence of the check for a flute on the
summary chart, does that help you to remember how you got paid? A. Q. A. Q. Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.
How were you paid for this? It would have been cash. Do you remember how much you were paid for
delivering these items to Carrie Neighbors? A. It could be anywhere from 50, 75. I imagine
depends on how much the instrument was worth, how much she could re-sell it for sometimes. Q. When you would bring an item in, whether it was
an instrument, whether it was jeans, whether it was an amp, how was the price determined between you and Carrie Neighbors? A. There wasn't -- somehow we just -- okay. Like
the jeans, we'd all ready had a set price. per pair.
It was $10
It also depended on what brand something was, In other words,
how fast she thought she could turn it.
you know, it would leave the store, somebody would buy it. If it was something popular, then just anywhere up Originally, on the like
to half price, but not over it.
VCR's or DVD players, like if they were 1-- say they
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were $199, I would usually get around 65 to 75, and she'd sell it for 125 to 165, 'cause they turn quicker that way, if you mark 'em down. Q. If she sold 'em for less than what you could get
'em in the stores? A. Q. A. Q. That's correct. They'd move quicker? Yeah. At some point in time, did she begin to ask you
to fill out seller's forms? A. The -- there was a white slip. You want to show
me one, I'll tell you. Q. Let me -- let me show you what's all ready been And
admitted into evidence as Government's Exhibit 197. right on top there, there's something that's labeled seller's. A. Q. A. Yes. It says seller's form, correct?
Yeah, actually these look a little different than
the ones I filled out, though. Q. A. How were they different? They had more lines down here, and it said
miscellaneous. Q. Let me just put it up. We can talk about it.
This is Government's Exhibit 197.1, and right there on
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the top is a seller's form for a person named Frederick Kramer, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. Correct. You don't know Frederick Kramer, do you? No, I do not. All right. But the forms that you filled out,
were they similar to this? A. No, they're different. They're -- at the bottom,
there was more lines. Q. Well, let me show you Government's Exhibit 197.2. See the 197.2 here?
Do you see that number? A. Q. Yes, I do. All right.
Now, you're having to read through
the plastic, but this appears to be the same type of seller's form that was contained in 197.1, correct? A. Yeah, I imagine I could have -- it just seemed --
of my recollection, it seemed like there was a couple more lines, but I have filled out some seller's forms. They were white slips, but I never -- sometimes she'd just have me sign 'em and she'd put miscellaneous in 'em. We wouldn't write the correct amount. We wouldn't
write the correct identification of the product. Q. They would not?
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A. Q.
No, we would not. All right.
She just put miscellaneous.
And were those seller's forms things
that you signed from when you started bringing her things, or was that later? A. Q. No, that was later on. Do you know why she had you fill out seller --
what did she tell you? A. Well, after she started more of the credit card
stuff coming through, it's more traceable. Q. Now, let me stop you here. What do you mean more
of the credit card stuff coming through? A. When I originally started with her, I shoplifted. Shoplifting, it's harder to trace
There's a difference. something back.
If you've got somebody with a stolen
credit card, they swipe it, usually it's traceable, whatever item that person brought, usually -- umm, say it's an electronic, the serial number goes onto the credit card receipt. Umm, she always asked for credit
card receipts if -- when the business started getting going, if she knew a person come in -- there was a few people that pretty well known around town for credit card theft. Q. A. Were you there when they would come in? Umm, there's been one, but I just got up and I don't remember his name.
walked off.
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Q.
Okay.
Then -- then did she tell you there were
more people coming in with credit cards? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, but did I see 'em? All right. Yes. All right. What did she tell you about that? No.
But she told you that?
She just thought it was funny how much that they
could go out and get in one day, and -- but she also knew that they were using it to buy drugs, 'cause we used to make comments about how many -- the top people, you know, you could tell when they were high, and she knew I used, too, at that time. Q. A. Q. A. She would tell you that? It was a discussion into -- between us. All right. The two of you would talk about it?
Yeah, because some of 'em, I'd seen at the drug So, sometimes, maybe I'd make a comment,
houses, too.
and I'd -- you know, I'd wonder how they could get so many different credit cards and come in three or four times a day with brand new items, you know, and -Q. A. Q. Did she talk about that with you? Uh-huh, yeah. Did she ever tell you that she refused to buy
items from these people who were, she believed, buying them with stolen credit cards?
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A. Q.
Not to my recollection. Did you at some point learn that there had been
some search warrants served at the Yellow House Store and the house? A. Q. A. Q. Guy? A. Q. Yes, I did. All right. And in 2004, 2005, where did he work, Yes. And who did you learn that from? Miss Carrie Neighbors and Mr. Guy Neighbors. All right. And did you know Carrie's husband
if you know? A. I know he quit his job. He was doing deliveries
for the Yellow House, and then they opened up a Topeka store which I've never been to, and he took over the Topeka store. Q. At some point in time, did he begin to spend more
time at the Lawrence store? A. Yes, and I think -- I believed that they had
closed the Topeka store, but I don't know the given time. Q. All right. But you learned about the first round
of search warrants from Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah. After you learned about the search
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warrants, did you stop bringing stolen items to sell her? A. Q. A. No. Why? She just -- our -- our deal was if I've -- always
been, if I've ever been caught in the past, they knew. Q. A. Q. A. I am sorry, what? Ever caught shoplifting. And were you caught for shoplifting? Many times, I'm sorry to say, many times, but I have never once given
there was many times I wasn't.
up her name, I've never once told 'em where the stuff went. Q. I did my time. All right. And so, she continued to deal with
you after the search warrants? A. Q. Yes. All right. And then did you learn that there was
another round of search warrants later on in 2006? A. The first one I knew about was just at the store. The
Now, if it was at the house, I don't know about. second one I believe was the house and the store. Q. All right.
And after the second search warrants,
did you continue to sell items to Carrie Neighbors that you had shoplifted? A. Yes.
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Q.
All right.
And when did you stop selling items
to Carrie Neighbors? A. Q. A. Q. A. I think right before I was indicted. And you were indicted in 2008? Yes. All the items that you sold her were stolen? Yeah. MS. PARKER: Thank you, Miss Barnes-Catlett.
I don't have anything else right now. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: Okay. Cross-examination. Thank you.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA: Q. Miss Barnes-Catlett, your drug addiction was for
what drug? A. Q. A. Coke. Powder or crack? Umm, I've snorted most. I've tried the other.
I've tried crack. Q. So, how much powder cocaine a day were you having
to purchase during this period of time we're talking about? A. Umm, on the days that I used, anywhere from 50 to
$100 worth.
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Q. A. Q.
And that would be everyday? Not everyday, no. Okay. But when you were stealing, it was to buy
cocaine. A.
Would you agree with that? Some of it
Some of it went for crack cocaine.
went for groceries.
Some of it went for gas, or if I'd
see something I'd like, I'd maybe buy it. Q. Would you agree that the majority of it probably
went for cocaine? A. about. Q. A. Q. Well -'Cause -Let's go over the times that -- during the time At -- depends on what time area we're talking
of your -- of your recent criminal history from 2002 to 2008. Now, it looks like in 2002, you had a felony
conviction out of Douglas County? A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh. Yes? Yes. And you would have gotten that because you were
somehow involved in drugs? A. Q. I believe that was the battery charge. Okay. But you don't know why the records show it
says obstruction?
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A.
I -- on that one, I really don't know why it
shows it. Q. And then in 2004, it talks about giving a
worthless check in Douglas County? A. And that one there, I just -- I'm trying to I'm trying to get it in my memory. I'm sure
remember.
if it's on the PSI, I probably did it, but I can't place it. Q. And you would have written a bad check because
you had a drug problem? A. was to? Q. No. All right. And then removal of a theft I was going -- does it say where the bad check
detection device, a felony in 2005 in Douglas County? A. Q. Yes. I mean, I guess my question is, are you just
stealing for the fun of stealing, or did you have a drug addiction that caused you to steal? A. I pretty much did it for drugs, and also -- well,
part of it was for that, and part of it, I was accepted for taking stuff. Q. Mrs. Neighbors used to -Before we get back into
Just a second here.
Mrs. Neighbors, I know -- I know what you want to do, and I'll -- you've had that opportunity. to just answer my questions, okay? Now you have
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A. Q.
Okay. All right. You would agree with me that that
drug problem lasted over the course of several years? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, it did. All right. It did. And if it wasn't for that drug addiction over
that several years, you probably wouldn't have continually stolen. A. Q. Would you agree with that?
Yes, I would agree with that. All right. Now, you get indicted and you You were
eventually make a deal when you plead guilty.
originally charged with four counts, is that right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I believe so. And then they dismissed a couple of 'em? Yeah. And you pled to two of 'em? Yes. All right. And you, as part of your plea, have
written in there that you have the possibility of receiving a 5 K reduction of your prison sentence. Would you agree with that? A. Q. Yes, it's in my plea agreement. Right. And a 5 K reduction is if you come in and
cooperate with the government, then you can have some of
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your prison sentence knocked off. that? A.
Would you agree with
From what I -- little bit has been explained to
me, yes. Q. Okay. And your attorney has gone over that with
you pretty carefully, correct? A. Q. A. On which part? On -- on how the 5 K works. Umm, we haven't got really in extensively to
that, no. Q. A. You haven't? No, they -- he just -- it was kind of a 5 K 1 is
if you, like you just said, give testimony or whatever, then you might get -- might get a reduction of sentence. It's not guaranteed, I guess. Q. A. All right. And so, are you up in prison now?
Yes, and I also would have got a year off if I
wouldn't have been brought back here to testify 'cause I had hired up. Q. Would you please, if you would, just listen to my I know
questions and -- just listen to my questions. that you want to say, but please just answer my questions, okay? A. Q. All right. All right.
My question was, are you in prison
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now? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, I am. Thank you. And where are you in prison at?
Do you want the prison? Yeah, just the prison's location. Well, right now, they brought me back and have me I was in Pekin, Illinois. Thank you. And how long have you
housed at CCA. Q.
All right.
been in the prison in Illinois? A. Q. A. Q. I self-surrendered on July 6th. So, you've been in there since July 6th? Yes. And have you had occasion -- is it pretty common
knowledge in that prison that a 5 K is a way to get your sentence reduced? A. Q. A. Q. Actually, it's really not discussed in there. Really? I was on ARDAP unit, so, no. Okay. So, nobody in there talks about -- you're
trying to tell this jury, none of these people that are in prison try to talk about how to get out of prison? A. Actually, a lot of 'em don't want to discuss
their cases. Q. A. Okay. I'm sorry.
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Q.
All right.
That's fair.
Now, you seem to have a
really good remembrance about the things that are helping the government in this case against Miss Neighbors, right? A. Q. If that's what you say. Yeah. I mean --
But you can't even remember what you were
convicted of during the same periods of time, right? A. Q. A. Q. A. Because -Yes or no? I don't remember. Yes or no? I can't really answer that in a yes or no
question. Q. Okay. Well, you had -- when we were asking you
the questions about these convictions, you can't even remember the dates that you were convicted and what you were convicted of, could you? A. I know what days I was -- I was in prison in '0--
I got out in '04. Q. Okay. That's not my question, though. Would you
listen to my question please?
My question was, you
can't even remember the dates of your -- what you're convicted of for, can you? A. Q. On the dates I was convicted? No, what you were convicted for?
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A.
In the obstruction justice, there was several There were
things that were convicted at that time. three charges.
I remember the battery and the fleeing,
eluding, they were in with that, and the one you keep bringing up is the one I don't know about. Q. A. Q. All right. So, there were three in one. All right. And then what about the worthless Do you remember
check in Douglas County in June of '04? that? A. Q. A. Q. No, I really don't. Okay. I don't know.
And what about the removal of the theft detection
device in Douglas County in '05? A. Q. And I said yes, I did. Okay. Now, you indicated that you got exactly 33
VCR's that you stole, and exactly 27 went to Miss Neighbors. A. Is that your testimony?
Actually, it is, because I remember, 'cause I
don't remember anyone -Q. A. Q. Yes or no, okay. Yes. Yes. I know -- I know you want to explain, Okay? Is that your -- yes?
Thank you.
but just please answer my questions, okay?
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A. Q.
Uh-huh. Okay. Now, that would have been when VCR's first
came out? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Which would have been like maybe 15 years ago? Yes. Okay. And you eventually came in and cooperated
with the police and were given -- and gave a statement to the police about this situation, correct? A. Q. Did I originally? Well, eventually. I have a statement that you
gave to the police.
It looks like it was done on July You remember that?
the 10th, 2008 with Officer Bialek. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And Officer -- or Agent Nitz? Yes. Okay.
And so, you told them at that time what
you knew about Carrie Neighbors, correct? A. They wanted to know about Carrie and my
participation with Carrie. Q. Right. Right. And that VCR was a pretty big
thing for you to have stole -- sold her 27 stolen VCR's, correct? A. Q. Yeah. But you didn't tell them about that?
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A.
Well, I don't know why she didn't.
I mean, why
would she? Q. I said, you didn't tell the agents about those Yes or no?
VCR's when you spoke with them. A.
Well, they -- when they first came in and talked
to me, we didn't talk about everything, no. Q. Did you ever tell those agents about the 27 VCR's
until you got ready to testify here in the last couple of days? A. Q. I've told 'em before, yes. Okay. When you -- when you first met with the
agents and told them about Carrie Neighbors, did you tell 'em about the VCR's; yes or no? A. Q. The first time I met 'em, no, we did not. Okay. But you did tell them about other things
that she supposedly did, correct? A. Q. Yes. Now, there was a time that you were banned from Would you
Carrie Neighbors' store for several years. agree with that? A. Q. I've never been banned.
Even as -- after you got charged and convicted of
forgery, you weren't told to stay out of there for several years? A. No, I've never been.
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Q.
Okay.
And did you ever -- you met Miss Neighbors Would you agree with that? No. I -- after I got to
in church. A.
Did I meet her there?
know her, I was invited to go with her and Guy Neighbors. Q. A. Q. To church? Yes. Okay. So, you became friends with the Neighbors.
Would you agree with that? A. Q. Yes, I did. And she became trusting of you. Would you agree
with that? A. Q. Yes. And at some point in time, Miss Neighbors said to
you, you know, I can't have you here anymore unless you turn your life around. A. Q. Would you agree with that?
No, it's never been stated to me. Did you ever tell her that you turned your life
around, you had joined the Mormon church? A. Q. A. Q. At one point in time, I did. Did you tell Miss Neighbors that? Yes. And you were telling her that to show her that
you were not doing anything bad in life, and you had kind of turned your life around; agreed?
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A. Q.
I was trying to, yes. Okay. And you brought property in to Miss The very first time you came in, you told --
Neighbors.
as to the -- as to the instruments -- told Miss Neighbors that it was your daughter's instrument, correct? A. Q. No. Okay. And did you ever tell Miss Neighbors that
a friend's sons's trumpet is who you were bringing in? A. Q. No, I never have. Have you ever told -- brought -- gone into the
store with other people with you when you went, sold stuff to Miss Neighbors? A. Not to my recollection, not -- not that went in
with me, that came with me, no. Q. Okay. And you had a receipt for the instruments
that you would take to Miss Neighbors, correct? A. The string -- the violins had receipts, I believe There was
the -- there might have been with the flute.
a bunch of 'em that were shoplifted that didn't have receipts. Q. All right. My question was -- all right. Did
you have receipts for any of the instruments that you brought in to Miss Neighbors? A. Some of 'em had receipts, some did not in the
15:55:10 15:55:12 15:55:17 15:55:21 15:55:28 15:55:28 15:55:29 15:55:31 15:55:34 15:55:34 15:55:36 15:55:38 15:55:41 15:55:41 15:55:42 15:55:43 15:55:45 15:55:46 15:55:47 15:55:49 15:55:54 15:55:57 15:56:02 15:56:07 15:56:07
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
past, 'cause I've shoplifted some of 'em. Q. Okay. And now, the credit card numbers, did you
ever tell the police that you had gotten the credit card numbers from an unidentified female from the Jayhawk Hotel? A. Q. A. Yes. And you were living at the Jayhawk Hotel? Lived at three different hotels at times. I was
homeless. Q. My question was, were you living at the Jayhawk
Hotel; yes or no? A. But what I'm trying to tell you, I lived at three
different ones. Q. A. Q. Okay. It wasn't just at one. At some point in time, did you live at the
Jayhawk Hotel? A. Q. I did stay there a few days, yes. And is that when you found the credit card
receipts in that hotel? A. Umm, I don't know if Jayhawk, it might have been Jayhawk I believe is in north I believe I
the motel before that.
Lawrence, and there's one on Sixth Street. told 'em that. Q.
And did you tell the agents that you used those
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
numbers that you got out of the trash can at the Jayhawk Hotel to have people call in and steal property? A. Q. Did I take 'em out of the trash can? That's not what I asked you. No.
Did you tell the
agents that the -- the receipts that were taken out of the trash can were used by you to make credit card call-ins to people to buy -- get stolen property? A. No, I told them that somebody had brought me the
receipts to hold on to, that they had used 'em to call in stuff. Q. Okay. And did you tell 'em whether or not you
ever called in credit cards, stolen credit cards? A. not. Q. A. Q. forms? A. Q. A. Have I signed one? Yes. Yes, but I don't remember 'em looking like that, Did you tell the agents that you did? Did I tell 'em I did? Okay. No. Did I call 'em in on the instruments? No, I did
Did you ever sign one of those seller's
like I said earlier. Q. Okay. And do you remember now whether you signed
it in your real name? A. Well, yeah, 'cause they know who I am. She knows
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who I am. Q. So, you signed the seller form in your real name,
correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. And the seller's form says on it,
this property that I'm bringing in is not stolen, correct? A. Q. A. I didn't finish reading it. All right. And the ones -- like I said, the one I signed It doesn't look the same
does not read the same way. way. Q. Okay.
So -- well, I don't have any further Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: Any redirect? No. Was the witness subpoenaed to
questions.
testify here? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: She was. Are you asking that she be
released from her subpoena? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes, please. Any objection? No objections. At this time you are released
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
from your subpoena.
You are excused from the courtroom. The
You're free to leave the courtroom at this time.
only thing that I'll ask is that you not discuss your testimony, what you said in here, as you leave with anyone else. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. PARKER: (Nodded.) Thank you. Your Honor, as what I
anticipate will be the last witness of the day, government would call James Ludwig. THE COURT: Before you take your seat, I'm
going to ask you to raise your right hand. (Witness sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: I do. Please take your seat. Careful
as you get in there -- get up there.
If you would, as
you give your answers to the questions you're asked, please speak up loud and clear and speak into the microphone. Have you start with you -- you can lower Have you start with you stating your
that microphone. name.
THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
James Ludwig. Please spell your name. L U D W I G. Thank you. Miss Parker.
15:59:52 15:59:52 15:59:52 15:59:53 15:59:53 15:59:54 15:59:56 15:59:58 16:00:00 16:00:03 16:00:10 16:00:15 16:00:17 16:00:18 16:00:24 16:00:26 16:00:33 16:00:37 16:00:43 16:00:46 16:00:49 16:00:51 16:00:52 16:00:56 16:01:01
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. A. Q.
JAMES LUDWIG, Called as a witness on behalf of the government, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION
Mr. Ludwig, what town do you live in? I live in Lawrence, Kansas. All right. How long have you lived in Lawrence?
Oh, since 1978. All right. Now, you're here today because you
have been charged for your involvement in a scheme to sell stolen goods to the Yellow House, correct? A. Q. Oh, that's correct. Okay. And you are testifying today and agreed to
cooperate why? A. Umm, I agreed because there might be some
benefits to my having the testimony, so I may get some sort of a better deal at the end. Q. Now, isn't it true that you have pled guilty to
conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering arising from your activity at the Yellow House? A. Q. That is correct. And you also have pled guilty to a separate
offense, federal offense of social security fraud, that was also in federal court and both of those convictions
16:01:07 16:01:11 16:01:11 16:01:14 16:01:17 16:01:18 16:01:18 16:01:20 16:01:21 16:01:25 16:01:30 16:01:35 16:01:37 16:01:38 16:01:44 16:01:49 16:01:50 16:01:51 16:02:01 16:02:05 16:02:05 16:02:10 16:02:10 16:02:15 16:02:17
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
happened on April the 21st of 2008? A. Q. That's correct. And you are hoping to get some sentencing
considerations when it's time for the judge to sentence you, correct? A. Q. A. Q. That's correct. You have not been sentenced yet? No. All right. Now, besides those two federal felony
convictions, isn't it true that on July the 19th of 2006, you were convicted of the misdemeanor of giving a worthless check in Lyon County, Kansas? A. Q. That's correct. And on March the 22nd of 2007, were you also
convicted of the misdemeanor offense of theft in Overland Park, Kansas? A. Q. Yes. Now, you have indicated that you are here because
of your activity at the Yellow House, correct? A. Q. House? A. Q. A. January of 2004. Okay. Not before that? That's correct. When did you first start dealing with the Yellow
We may have over the years since '78 have sold
16:02:22 16:02:28 16:02:28 16:02:30 16:02:36 16:02:38 16:02:41 16:02:41 16:02:48 16:03:08 16:03:10 16:03:16 16:03:21 16:03:33 16:03:38 16:03:44 16:03:47 16:03:52 16:03:54 16:03:54 16:04:02 16:04:05 16:04:11 16:04:11 16:04:15
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
items such as old TV's or something that you put on the curb, you know. Q. Now, I'm going to show you what's all ready been And have you had
received as Government's Exhibit 124.
a chance to just kind of leaf through that and see that these are all checks that were written to you? A. Q. That is correct. Now, we don't have an extra copy of this, just So, I'm going to put Government's
was too big to bind.
Exhibit -- Government's Exhibit 124, which is this book of checks, a long book of checks along with a summary of the checks, and I think it's just going to be easier for me to take the summary out, Government's Exhibit 124, and we'll just use that. Now, do you see that this is a
summary of those checks, what has the check date, the date the check was paid, the check number, who it was written to, and what notation was made in the memo section. A. Q. Do you see that?
Yes. And just so you have a clear understanding of the
way the information came, do you see that this first check in here is a check to Arlette Ludwig? A. Q. A. Yes. Check Number 6746, correct? I see that, yes.
16:04:16 16:04:19 16:04:24 16:04:25 16:04:27 16:04:28 16:04:37 16:04:39 16:04:44 16:04:44 16:04:49 16:04:52 16:04:53 16:04:56 16:05:04 16:05:06 16:05:08 16:05:10 16:05:10 16:05:11 16:05:13 16:05:18 16:05:27 16:05:31 16:05:34
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
And all the information in that summary chart can
be found on that check, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Who is Arlette Ludwig? That's my wife. All right. And after this first check to
Arlette, at least on this page, all the rest of the checks were written to you. A. Q. That is correct. All right. Did you go with Arlette Ludwig to the Do you see that?
Yellow House that day? A. Q. I believe I have. All right. And it says that the item that was Do you know where Arlette
sold was a Sansom DVD/VCR. Ludwig got that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
I believe that was one of ours. So, that was not a stolen item? No. All right. It was a used item. All right. After that, starting on January
the 14th of 2004, it would appear that you were in the Yellow House Store on at least -- in March of 2004, on almost a daily basis. A. That's correct. Is that fair to say?
16:05:35 16:05:38 16:05:42 16:05:45 16:05:48 16:05:48 16:05:53 16:05:56 16:05:57 16:05:58 16:06:03 16:06:04 16:06:06 16:06:13 16:06:19 16:06:20 16:06:22 16:06:22 16:06:24 16:06:25 16:06:28 16:06:29 16:06:30 16:06:31 16:06:31
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A.
What were you taking there? I was taking merchandise that I have obtained
either trading, buying or stealing. Q. trade? A. Q. I would trade items that I had, electronics. All right. And the items that you had, had they All right. When you say trading, what would you
been stolen? A. Q. Yes. No. No.
How often did you have electronic items that you
could trade? A. I used to have a store, and I had a lot of
equipment, but overall, probably about 30 percent of the gross material that was sold at the Yellow House was legitimate. Q. A. Q. A. Q. 30 percent? Yes. So, that means 70 percent was not? That's correct. All right. And you from time to time sold tool
sets, did you not? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, that's correct. Were they stolen? Yes. All the tool sets got stolen?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes. Now, let's talk about how you were able to steal
70 percent of the items that you took to the Yellow House. Let's say a tool set. How -- where would you go
to steal a tool set? A. Q. I went to Sears to obtain a tool set. And how were you able to get -- I mean, take a Do you see some
look in the back of the courtroom. large yellow boxes that are De Walt? A. Q. Yes.
Did you ever steal tool sets that are consistent
with those types of sets? A. Q. Yes. All right. That's a big box. How did you get
that out of Sears? A. Q. I simply loaded it on the cart and pushed it out. All right. Where would you get it? Would you
get it from the shelf? A. Q. Yes. All right. Did you ever get it from a place next
to the cashiers' register? A. Q. A. tools. Yes. The cash register? Yes, I did, and those items were not really They were smaller items.
16:07:29 16:07:29 16:07:32 16:07:34 16:07:34 16:07:34 16:07:37 16:07:38 16:07:39 16:07:43 16:07:44 16:07:48 16:07:49 16:07:55 16:07:58 16:08:00 16:08:06 16:08:10 16:08:10 16:08:10 16:08:15 16:08:19 16:08:19 16:08:23 16:08:26
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q.
Oh. Electronics. But the tool sets, you went into the tool
department? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Yes.
Went over to the -- to the rack or to the shelf? That's correct. And you put 'em where? I put it in the shopping cart and I pushed it
right out. Q. Did anyone ever stop you and ask you to show your
receipt? A. Yes, a couple occasions, I had -- had a problem
of being stopped. Q. A. Q. And how did you get out of that, or did you? Well, at that point, I bribed the guy. And who -- do you remember, was it an employee of
the store? A. Q. A. Employee. When you say you bribed the guy, same guy? No, it didn't happen that often, and I went to
many stores. Q. All right. And do you remember approximately how
many times you bribed a store employee to let you walk out with unpaid?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q. A. Q.
Perhaps half a dozen. Half a dozen times? Perhaps. And how much of a bribe would you have to give an
employee to let you steal a big tool set like that? A. Q. The maximum was a hundred dollars. How did you arrive at a price with this store
employee? A. Q. A. Q. Well, I simply offered a hundred dollar bill. I'm sorry? I simply offered a hundred dollar bill. All right. And each time, did you offer a
hundred dollar bill? A. Q. Yes. Do you know what the retail value of a tool set
like one of those big ones back there was? A. Q. Approximately $600. All right. And when you -- after you got those
tool sets out to your car, what did you do with them? A. Umm, I have taken it to Carrie Neighbors at the
Yellow House on Massachusetts Street in Lawrence, Kansas. Q. A. Q. Okay. And how would she pay you?
She would pay me with a check. How did you arrive at a price for the tool sets
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
you were bringing? A. That particular thing happened at our first --
second sale in Lawrence, and at that point, I have told Carrie Neighbors that I will be bringing in items that are some of it bought, some of it traded and a lot of it stolen. Q. A. Q. You were that specific with her? It was a conversation between the two of us. All right. And when you told her you'd be
bringing in items that were bought, items that were traded, and some that were stolen, what did she say? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. She said she can live with that. How did you arrive at the price for each item? I wanted to have at least 50 percent. And did you get that? Yes. All right. Now, you said it was the second time
you were in.
Are you talking about this second entry
here for January 14th of 2004; it says tools? A. It was between -- it was between the 12th and
the -- and the 15th, so it could have been the 14th. Q. A. Q. A. How are you able to remember this long ago? I don't. That it was between the 12th and the 14th? But I do have records.
16:10:51 16:10:52 16:10:53 16:10:55 16:10:55 16:10:58 16:11:00 16:11:00 16:11:04 16:11:05 16:11:06 16:11:09 16:11:11 16:11:15 16:11:20 16:11:22 16:11:29 16:11:31 16:11:32 16:11:32 16:11:35 16:11:36 16:11:37 16:11:39 16:11:44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q. A. Q.
You have your own records? Yes. And did you bring those with you? No. All right. Have you ever given them to the
police or given them to the prosecutor? A. Q. No. Did you consult those records before you came
here today? A. Q. No. Okay. Then I go back to my question. How do you
remember that it's between the 12th and the 14th? A. I have seen Carrie Neighbors, ma'am, so many
times, and all these transactions are -- are totally sharp in my mind. Q. Let's look. On January 14th of '04, the memo Do you remember?
portion of that check says tools. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. That's correct. What kind of tools?
There were several different tools. On this particular check? On this particular check. All right. Now, this is a -- the amount of this What type of tools would you have
check was only $130. sold?
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A. Q. A. Q. A.
Would be probably Craftsman. Craftsman? Which is a -Are those less expensive tools than the De Walt? No, it's not that expensive. It's probably a
trademark of Sears, and also I sold De Walt tools, too. Q. But on this particular check, you got $130 for
you said several sets of tools? A. Q. Smaller items of tools. Now, if you -- the next day was -- or the next
transaction was on the 28th, and it was a DVD slash Craftsman? A. That included a DVD player, electronics, and I
don't know the brand, but also included a Craftsman tool set. Q. A. Q. All right. Isn't Craftsman a brand?
Craftsman is a Sears brand. All right. And for those items, you got $200,
correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. Then the next one, two, three, four
entries are tools, and this is on -- twice you were in on January 29th selling tools, and then on the 4th of February, you were in selling tools. excuse me, three times on the 29th. On three times -Did you go in
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
separate times or did you get three separate checks? A. Three separate checks, that means three times
that I was in that store. Q. All right. So, first time, you brought in tools
to sell, and here I'm looking at January 29th? A. Q. Yes. Check Number 4496 in the amount of $200, and
that's the 28th, that's -A. Q. 28th. Okay. 29th was $500. There's one check here on the 29th for
$500 for tools? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Do you remember what tools you would have taken
in for that price? A. Many a times when I dealt with Carrie Neighbors, However, in
she only put one item down on the check.
most cases, there were numerous items, but she would just put one item down as tools, but there could have been a DVD player, could have been a something else that was included in that particular sale. Q. Then if you go up here again on January the 29th
of 2004, Check Number 6883, $280 for tools? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. And January 29th, just above that,
Check Number 4500, $271 for tools.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes. Correct? All right. And it appears that each
one of those checks was cashed on that very same day? A. Q. A. Yes. Where did you cash the checks? As soon as I received the checks, I take it to
her bank, or in some cases, Guy's bank, because some of the checks were on him, and I cashed these checks. Q. All right. Now, these are three checks on the You said you went in three separate
29th of January. times? A. Q. Yes. All right.
So, you'd go in, you'd have tool
sets, you'd get a check? A. Q. day? A. Q. Yes. You know how long there -- you -- there was That's correct. All right. And then you came back later in the
between the first visit and the second? A. I don't know, but it's a possibility the way it
was that sometimes if I done anything at the evening hours, then I would take two in in the morning. Q. A. First thing? First thing in the morning. And probably have
16:15:31 16:15:34 16:15:36 16:15:40 16:15:43 16:15:44 16:15:45 16:15:46 16:15:47 16:15:50 16:15:53 16:15:54 16:15:57 16:15:59 16:15:59 16:15:59 16:16:01 16:16:05 16:16:07 16:16:09 16:16:10 16:16:10 16:16:13 16:16:15 16:16:19
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
another run noon time, and perhaps one in the early afternoon hours. Q. And when you were coming in multiple times a day,
did Carrie Neighbors ever ask you where you were getting these items? A. Q. A. Q. No. After that first time? No, she never did. Did she ever refuse to buy any of the items
because she said you're coming in here too much, this doesn't smell right? A. No. No. As a matter of fact -Judge, this question's been asked
MR. DUMA: and answered. BY MS. PARKER: Q.
Did she say something else? MR. DUMA: Objection, Judge. About what,
something else, I mean, that just calls for -THE COURT: In regards to the vagueness of
the question, I'll sustain the objection. BY MS. PARKER: Q. All right. I asked you if Carrie Neighbors ever
said, you know, you're coming in too much, I'm not going to buy something from you. like that with her? Did you have a discussion
16:16:21 16:16:25 16:16:27 16:16:29 16:16:32 16:16:35 16:16:42 16:16:47 16:16:53 16:16:56 16:16:56 16:17:01 16:17:04 16:17:07 16:17:13 16:17:17 16:17:22 16:17:26 16:17:29 16:17:30 16:17:34 16:17:39 16:17:42 16:17:43 16:17:45
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A.
Never.
I mean, in other words, she was glad to
receive the merchandise all times. Q. Did she tell you what she was doing with the
merchandise you sold her? A. store. I have never seen the merchandise sold in the I -- I preclude that the merchandise went out on
eBay or somewhere else. Q. We have a number of items that you sold. They
include camera equipment. stolen? A.
Was that new or was that
That's -- most of the camera equipment were -It was used.
were stolen, but they was not new. Q. A.
Where would you steal the camera stuff? Sears have a policy that many a times, they --
people return items, they place it next to the cash register, and they not immediately secure those, because they are faulty, and that's how I obtained that merchandise. Now, they still in boxes, so they appear
to be brand new. Q. All right. And when items were returned and
placed next to the cash register, were you able to tell whether or not they had their security device re-attached when they brought 'em back? A. Q. There were no security devices attached. Is that why you took 'em from that location?
16:17:48 16:17:51 16:17:56 16:18:03 16:18:08 16:18:09 16:18:16 16:18:22 16:18:29 16:18:34 16:18:37 16:18:40 16:18:42 16:18:42 16:18:48 16:18:53 16:18:57 16:19:00 16:19:01 16:19:04 16:19:04 16:19:05 16:19:11 16:19:14 16:19:15
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Yes, that was easy. Show you the next page of this summary chart.
This shows again that you were in the Yellow House very frequently in April of 2004, correct? A. Q. That is correct. And again, selling DVD's and tools, more tools,
tool items, tool sets, again, all of those from Sears? A. Yes, 90 -- there were some Kitchen Aid equipment So, there were
that I obtained at JC Penney and Sears. some JC Penney items included in there. Q.
But the 70 percent of the items that you brought
to Carrie were stolen items? A. Q. Yes. All right. Third page of this summary chart,
again, shows multiple visits during a month to Carrie Neighbors, again selling things, tool set, tool set, tools, tool set, tools, tools, tool set, correct? A. Q. That is correct. Did she ever refuse to buy any of the tool sets
you brought in? A. Q. No. Page 4 of this exhibit is more of the same,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right. And this starts at November the 26th
16:19:18 16:19:25 16:19:26 16:19:28 16:19:28 16:19:36 16:19:39 16:19:43 16:19:43 16:19:47 16:19:52 16:19:54 16:19:55 16:19:57 16:19:57 16:19:58 16:19:59 16:20:04 16:20:09 16:20:13 16:20:17 16:20:23 16:20:28 16:20:31 16:20:31
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
of 2004 and goes through February 25th of 2005, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. So, that's approximately three months worth? Yes. Page 5 of this exhibit starts where the other This time, it goes all the
left off in February of '05. way to November of '05. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. All right.
Correct?
But again, the items that you're
taking in again are things like here's mixer, mixer, tools, vacuum. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. You see that?
Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes. That stolen? Yes. Finally, the last page of this is only a short Here's Kitchen Aid?
partial page, and it's from November 25th of '05 to November 28th of '05. And there's a total there.
What's the total of the amount of items you sold from January of 2004 to November 28th of 2005? A. Q. 104,616.30. And that's what she paid you for the items,
correct? A. That's correct.
16:20:32 16:20:38 16:20:46 16:20:48 16:20:50 16:20:53 16:20:56 16:20:56 16:21:01 16:21:04 16:21:06 16:21:07 16:21:09 16:21:09 16:21:10 16:21:12 16:21:14 16:21:15 16:21:19 16:21:20 16:21:22 16:21:24 16:21:25 16:21:27 16:21:31
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
And what did you tell the jury that the biggest
percentage you got for your items was from Carrie Neighbors? In other words, if you took a $600 tool set
in, would she give you $500 for it? A. Q. No, she would give me $300. She ever give you more than 50 percent for an
item you took in? A. No. No. As a matter of fact, we had once upon a
time a discussion with Carrie Neighbors where she was telling me that -MR. DUMA: this as non-responsive. THE COURT: BY MS. PARKER: Q. All right. You said you had a discussion with Sustained. Judge, I'm going to object to
Carrie Neighbors about what? MR. DUMA: Judge, I'm going to object to It's open ended
this as being again a vague question. question. MS. PARKER: discussion in mind. was. THE COURT:
Your Honor, he obviously had a
I'm asking him what that discussion
In regards to the form of the Want
question, though, I would sustain the objection. to be more direct with your question?
16:21:33 16:21:34 16:21:36 16:21:36 16:21:36 16:21:38 16:21:38 16:21:41 16:21:44 16:21:45 16:21:48 16:21:48 16:21:49 16:21:50 16:21:51 16:21:51 16:21:54 16:21:56 16:21:59 16:22:02 16:22:04 16:22:08 16:22:14 16:22:17 16:22:19
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 first.
THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
This is in reference -The question has to be asked
BY MS. PARKER: Q. A. Q. Yeah, let me ask you a question. Okay. I asked you about $0.50 or 50 percent of the
amount of the value of the items that you took in. A. Q. That is correct. Did you have a discussion with Carrie about that
50 percent? A. Q. I did. And would you tell the jury what that
discussion -A. Q. And at this -Wait a minute. Let me ask my question. We can't
step over each other, 'cause the court reporter can't write it down. So, the discussion you had with Carrie
about the 50 percent she would pay you, what did that discussion consist of? A. This consisted of, she told me that she should
get more money for herself, other than the -- she should not pay 50 percent, she should make more money for herself. Q. Did she say why she felt she should have more
16:22:22 16:22:24 16:22:31 16:22:35 16:22:36 16:22:37 16:22:38 16:22:43 16:22:45 16:22:46 16:22:48 16:22:51 16:22:53 16:22:57 16:22:58 16:22:58 16:23:00 16:23:00 16:23:02 16:23:03 16:23:03 16:23:05 16:23:07 16:23:14 16:23:18
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
money for herself? A. Well, she told me that I am a convicted felon,
came about 15 or so years ago. Q. A. Q. A. Did you tell her that? I did not. All right. I sold a machine gun many, many years ago, and -She knew about it.
and she is well protected, and she is protecting herself. Q. Well now, wait a minute. Let me just stop here.
I did not ask you, but would you tell the jury about the conviction for the machine gun? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I have sold an unregistered machine gun. All right. Yes. It was a felony conviction? That's correct. All right. Carrie Neighbors indicated she knew But were you convicted of that?
about that? A. Q. Yes. All right. What else did she say about the fact
that you were a convicted felon? A. Well, this is also in -- tied into this
conversation about this, that she deserves more money, considering she is buying this merchandise from me, and
16:23:22 16:23:27 16:23:32 16:23:35 16:23:37 16:23:38 16:23:42 16:23:44 16:23:45 16:23:46 16:23:49 16:23:54 16:23:57 16:23:59 16:24:00 16:24:05 16:24:11 16:24:18 16:24:22 16:24:24 16:24:24 16:24:28 16:24:33 16:24:36 16:24:44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
it is -- obviously some of it stolen or all of it, and therefore, she is -- she also told me that she is well protecting herself by writing me these checks. Q. What did she say about why writing checks
protected her? A. It is -- it is to prove that she done all this in
good faith, purchasing the merchandise from me. Q. A. Q. She told you that? Yes. All right. Did she ever discuss with you what
would happen if you ever tried to turn her in? A. Well, no one would believe me because I was all
ready a convicted felon in a community. Q. A. Q. Did she say that? Yes, to me. Going to hand you what has been marked as
Government's Exhibit 15.1, and direct your attention to the top check in that exhibit. Do you recognize that as
a check that Carrie Neighbors wrote to you? A. Q. Yes. All right. I am also going to show you what has
been marked as Government's Exhibit 15.2, and ask you to take a look at that check. Neighbors wrote to you? A. Is that also a check Carrie
You recognize the signature?
It is -- it is definitely her signature.
16:24:47 16:24:49 16:24:50 16:24:50 16:24:51 16:24:55 16:24:56 16:24:57 16:24:58 16:25:00 16:25:02 16:25:03 16:25:06 16:25:10 16:25:12 16:25:17 16:25:17 16:25:20 16:25:21 16:25:21 16:25:23 16:25:25 16:25:30 16:25:33 16:25:35
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. A. Q.
All right.
And that's your name on the check?
That is correct. All right. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time the
government would offer Government's Exhibit 15.1 and 15.2. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 15.1 and 15.2. BY MS. PARKER: Q. I'm going to display up on the overhead Any objection? No objection. At this time the court admits
Government's Exhibit -- Check -- I mean, Exhibit Number 15.1, and direct your attention here to Check Number 13014. A. Q. Ludwig. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. All right. And this is a check written to Jim You see that?
Is that you? Yes. And it's in the amount of what? $100. All right. And it shows that it's for what?
Excuse me, Mr. Ludwig, if you could avoid rubbing against the microphone, that would be very helpful. A. It is a mixer.
16:25:36 16:25:41 16:25:42 16:25:43 16:25:44 16:25:45 16:25:48 16:25:49 16:25:50 16:25:52 16:25:54 16:25:59 16:26:05 16:26:09 16:26:10 16:26:12 16:26:14 16:26:16 16:26:16 16:26:19 16:26:26 16:26:30 16:26:36 16:26:38 16:26:39
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
A mixer.
All right.
And you described before
stealing mixers? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, these. Kitchen mixers? Yes, that's correct. And would this have been a stolen item that you
sold to Carrie Neighbors for a hundred dollars? A. Q. Yes. Do you remember where you got your mixers? I
think you told me but would you tell me again? A. Q. I got the mixers Sears and JC Penney, both. Then show you Government's Exhibit 15.2, which is Do you see that?
Check Number 13909. A. Q. A. Q. what? A. Q. Yes. All right. $200. All right.
And that's a check for how much?
And this shows again that it's for
It is for mixers. All right. Now, this is twice as much money as The first check was a $100 check for a Do you know what would
the first check.
mixer, and this is a $200 check.
have made a difference in the amount of money you received for a mixer? A. Yes, ma'am. That was two mixers.
16:26:42 16:26:45 16:26:45 16:26:45 16:26:47 16:26:47 16:26:50 16:26:50 16:27:02 16:27:10 16:27:14 16:27:14 16:27:18 16:27:18 16:27:22 16:27:23 16:27:25 16:27:26 16:27:27 16:27:28 16:27:30 16:27:30 16:27:32 16:27:41 16:27:43
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
So, you had established price of a hundred
dollars a mixer? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Were these KitchenAid mixers? Yes. And stolen again? Yes. Finally, I'm going to show you Government's
Exhibit 16.2, and ask you to look at the third check down on that page. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And is that a check that you received from Carrie Do you see that?
Neighbors? A. Yes, it's her signature. MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this time the
government offers Government's Exhibit 16.2. THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Exhibit 16.2. BY MS. PARKER: Q. Okay. And I'm going to put Government's Any objection? No objection. At this time court admits
Exhibit 16.2 on the overhead, and this is Check Number 1091. A. Correct? That is correct.
16:27:44 16:27:47 16:27:48 16:27:49 16:27:53 16:27:58 16:28:03 16:28:03 16:28:05 16:28:07 16:28:09 16:28:15 16:28:17 16:28:19 16:28:24 16:28:28 16:28:35 16:28:38 16:28:40 16:28:41 16:28:45 16:28:45 16:28:49 16:28:51 16:28:51
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. 2004? A. Q. A. Q. set? A.
All right.
And it's dated February the 12th of
Yes, ma'am. All right. And this was for what?
Oh, that was for a large tool set, 500 bucks. All right. And you think that was just one tool
I believe it was one.
That was one of the
biggest ones that Sears have. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And how much did that retail for? I believe it was $1,084. How big was the box? Pretty big. And was that another stolen tool set? It's possible, but I don't -- I don't think so. Do you ever remember buying a $1,041 tool set? No, I stole one. And this would be consistent with that? Yes. So, that would again have been a stolen item? Yes. All right. THE COURT: stopping point. MS. PARKER: I think I'm finished. Getting pretty close to our
16:29:00 16:29:00 16:29:05 16:29:08 16:29:16 16:29:18 16:29:20 16:29:24 16:29:27 16:29:40 16:29:42 16:29:45 16:29:48 16:29:51 16:29:56 16:29:58 16:29:58 16:29:58 16:30:00 16:30:04 16:30:08 16:30:10 16:30:14 16:30:17 16:30:21
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
BY MS. PARKER: Q. One more question. All this money, this
$104,000, what did you use it for? A. I have had a gambling problem, and most of it
went for that. Q. Thank you. I don't have any additional questions
of this witness at this time. MR. DUMA: Your Honor, I anticipate this
will take about eight to 10 minutes tops. THE COURT: We usually stop around this
time, but if that's what the representation is, I'll go along with that. I'll give you 10 minutes. After that,
if you need to take as much time as you believe you need, but at that point, I will stop for today. you're ready to proceed. MR. DUMA: Thank you. If
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DUMA: Q. Mr. Ludwig, you have had your sentencing in your
underlying criminal case continued many, many times to try to push it past this particular trial. agree with that? A. The -- the way I understood that, the sentencing Would you
was in conjunction with her sentencing, Carrie Neighbors, so that's why it's continued.
16:30:23 16:30:26 16:30:29 16:30:30 16:30:35 16:30:38 16:30:40 16:30:42 16:30:42 16:30:47 16:30:47 16:30:49 16:30:49 16:30:50 16:30:55 16:30:57 16:30:59 16:31:00 16:31:01 16:31:04 16:31:06 16:31:08 16:31:09 16:31:11 16:31:15
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q.
All right.
And your sentencing is currently
scheduled here in November, is that correct? A. Q. I understand, yes. All right. And one, you wanted to continue your
sentencing so you could cooperate first, and then talk about that cooperation at the time of your sentencing to try to get your prison sentence lowered. agree with that? A. works. Q. right? A. Q. A. Q. store? A. Q. She knew I had a store. All right. And then -- and you told -- and she Could be, yes. Okay. Now, you used to have a store, correct? But that's what you think's going to happen, I -- I agree with that, but I don't know how that Would you
I used to have a store, yes. And you told Miss Neighbors you used to have a
knew that some of the stuff that you were selling to her had come legitimately from that store that you used to have, correct? A. Q. There was a small percentage, yes. Okay. If you could just answer my questions yes
or no, that would be great, okay?
16:31:17 16:31:17 16:31:22 16:31:25 16:31:27 16:31:30 16:31:32 16:31:35 16:31:37 16:31:39 16:31:40 16:31:45 16:31:46 16:31:49 16:31:50 16:31:52 16:31:55 16:31:55 16:31:58 16:32:02 16:32:05 16:32:08 16:32:12 16:32:14 16:32:16
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Q.
Okay.
Yes. Now, you also went into her store Would you agree with that?
Thank you.
quite often with your wife. A. Q.
I disagree with that, sir. All right. How many times would your wife have
gone into the Neighbors' store with you to purchase stuff? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Two, three times. Over that entire time, just two or three times? I think so, yes, sir. Okay. Do you know Carrie Neighbors' mother Lois?
Vaguely, yes. All right. Do you know if Lois ever had
conversations with your wife when you brought your wife into the store? A. It is very possible, sir, if she was there, at
the time. Q. Okay. All right. And so, when you were bringing
your wife into the store, you also were selling stolen stuff on those days? A. Q. I don't believe so, sir. Okay. And you indicated you have your own
records that sets all this out? A. Q. I kept records, yes, sir. Okay. And some of the stuff that you sold to
16:32:21 16:32:24 16:32:25 16:32:27 16:32:28 16:32:29 16:32:31 16:32:33 16:32:34 16:32:39 16:32:40 16:32:41 16:32:42 16:32:42 16:32:43 16:32:44 16:32:45 16:32:46 16:32:47 16:32:48 16:32:49 16:32:52 16:32:55 16:32:59 16:33:01
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Miss Neighbors was used, correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. And some of it, you had got from trading,
correct? A. Q. Yes, sir. And some of it was just merchandise that you
purchased and then re-sold to her, correct? A. Q. That is correct. All right. No further questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: MS. PARKER: THE COURT: testify? MS. PARKER: THE COURT:
Any redirect on that? No, Your Honor. Was the witness subpoenaed to
He was. Are you asking that he be
released from his subpoena? MS. PARKER: THE COURT: MR. DUMA: THE COURT: Yes, please. Any objection? No objections. At this time, sir, you are
released from your subpoena, which means that you're excused. You're free to go. The only thing that I'll
ask is that you not discuss your testimony, what you've said in here, with anyone else as you leave. THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
16:33:02 16:33:39 16:33:42 16:33:45 16:33:47 16:33:51 16:33:55 16:33:57 16:34:00 16:34:03 16:34:06 16:34:10 16:34:13 16:34:16 16:34:20 16:34:23 16:34:25 16:35:09 16:35:27 16:35:30 16:35:33 16:35:36 16:35:38 16:35:41 16:35:43
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Apologize.
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Go ahead and take Please
our evening recess at this time, jury members.
remember the evening admonition, which is that no one's to talk to you about the case. us know. If they do, please let
Also, it's not proper for anyone to do any
type of independent research or investigation on your own. Again, the only place you're to receive the If there were to be
evidence is here in the courtroom.
anything in the media from whatever source, please disregard it. And that also would include anyone Finally, as
participating in any form of social media.
you head back to your vehicles, again, even among yourselves, you can't speak about the case. And that
prohibition also applies to anyone there in your homes. If we can have everyone back tomorrow morning again a little bit before 9 o'clock. Thank you.
(4:34 PM, jury left.) THE COURT: Court stands in recess.
I actually was going to ask you before we
ended today, it was on my mind, but in regards to that, I had asked previously whether or not you on behalf of your client were going to be requesting that if things were to come out a certain way, that the forfeiture allegations that have been raised by the government be presented to the court or the jury. And you asked for
16:35:46 16:35:49 16:35:49 16:35:51 16:35:55 16:35:58 16:35:59 16:36:01 16:36:02 16:36:04 16:36:08 16:36:08
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
some time to speak with your client. her? MR. DUMA:
Did you speak with
I've talked with Miss Neighbors,
and she does not want a jury trial if it comes to that eventuality, that she would prefer that the court hear that evidence. THE COURT: Is that correct, Miss Neighbors? Sure. Thank you. It's noted
THE DEFENDANT: THE COURT: for the record.
Okay.
Court stands in recess.
(Whereupon, court recessed proceedings.) .
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 S/_______________________________ Nancy Moroney Wiss, CSR, CM, FCRR I, Nancy Moroney Wiss, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and the regularly appointed, qualified and acting official reporter of the United States District Court for the District of Kansas, do hereby certify that as such official reporter, I was present at and reported in machine shorthand the above and foregoing proceedings. I further certify that the foregoing transcript, consisting of Day Six - Jury Trial - Pages 906-1169 is a full, true, and correct reproduction of my shorthand notes as reflected by this transcript. SIGNED March 4, 2011. C E R T I F I C A T E

DAY 6 Trial of Carrie Neighbors

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DAY 6 Trial of Carrie Neighbors

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USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 906

For the Defendant:

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 907

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 908

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 909

UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: THE COURT:

So, short for some, but we're So again, just as a

back here again in the courtroom.

loud and clear.

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 910

Name is Bradley Byrne. What I'll ask, Mr. Byrne, if you

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MS. PARKER:

Thank you, Your Honor.

agreed to cooperate in the investigation and the

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 911

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 912

attention to the year 2005, okay?

those 2002 convictions you've just talked about? A. Yes.

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 913

And how long were you and

Well, I was directing your attention

My release date was, yeah, August 12th from DOC

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 914

So, sometime the beginning of

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 915

agree to do? A. I would agree to drive him to Topeka, and he

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 916

This first check here on September the 23rd of Do you

2005, that was for flat screen and tools.

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 917

Flat screen I know didn't belong to me.

the box items? A. Usually not in the box. In the plastic

sometimes. Q. All right. And do you know why they weren't in

the box? A. Well, my assumption would be is because it's

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 918

Yes. All right. But he would come out, take things --

took 'em out of the plastic.

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 919

Do you see that?

Were those new and stolen?

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 920

Went to Cabela's one day.

Now, I'd like to show you Government's

Is that a check you got at the Yellow

Your Honor, at this time

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR

USA V CARRIE NEIGHBORS 921

you bought them? A. Q. House? A.

Usually Guy, but on this occasion, I believe it

NANCY MORONEY WISS, CSR, RMR, FCRR