1201 S Alma School Rd

Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Your Practice Mastered June 2015 Interview with an Expert

With Richard James and Jon Alexander

Richard James: Alright, so it looks like we’re having technical difficulties with our main server, so we’ve
switched everybody over to here. There’s some emails and text messages going off now or shortly, hopefully
we’ll capture some people and we’ll have the call here. At least if for whatever reason the call doesn’t—
people can’t get attendance, we’ll get this recorded and get a copy out to everybody. So be patient with us,
we’re going to have to get in back of this conference line and mute everybody out or we’re going to have to
ask everybody to politely mute themselves until we ask the questions, which is probably the best thing for us
to do.

Jon, are you still with me?

Jon Alexander: Yeah, I’m still here.

Rich: So probably we’re going to ask people to politely hit mute if they come on the line. And we’ll
deal with the background noise as it comes up if it does come up this way they can ask questions later on,
cause there’s no way to raise their hand.

Jon: No. Not really.

Rich: It’s either we mute everybody and they can’t ask a question and we can unmute them
afterwards or I just don’t know if you can’t do that, toggle that on and toggle it off with this other service. So
great lesson for everybody. I think we’ll play this entire recording so they can hear what you do. The worst
number in business is one, right? Don’t just have one option. We have multiple options for conference lines, of
course now we have to let everybody know and unfortunately, we weren’t privy to this until we were notified
by the great Blaine Oelkers, who texted me and said, I can’t get on. And we don’t get on until we go live,
because as soon as I dial in with my pin the whole thing goes live, so I had no way of knowing until I dial in.

Interesting the way logistics work in a company. I think we’ll give it a few minutes here though. So Jon, are you
sending out a text and email now?

Jon: I am, I’m working on it right now.

Rich: Okay.

Jon: I got the email out, just working on the text.

Rich: Sounds like we’re starting to get some people in. Hi, welcome to the call. Hello everybody. Do
me a favor as you come on to the call, if you wouldn’t mind hitting mute on your phone because otherwise

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 1201 S Alma School Rd
Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

we’re going to get background noise from everybody. This call is not as moderated as the other line is, we’re
not sure what’s up with the other company. The website is working, but the number isn’t.

So again, if you are just coming on the call and joining us, if you wouldn’t mind just putting mute on your
phone so we don’t pick up any background noise wherever you’re at. We’ll start the call shortly. We’re giving
everybody some time to join us here and I’ll keep repeating myself as everybody comes on.

Hi, welcome to the call. If you wouldn’t mind hitting mute on your phone, so we don’t pick up your
background noise. This line is not as moderated as the main line we typically use so we don’t have the
functionality to do so without giving you guys the ability.

This is fun. This is exciting. This is a new wave here of recorded phone calls on a conference line. Three years
of using the same line, never one problem and all of a sudden we show up with a problem today. That’s good.
That’s good. Jon was here on the call today ready to take action. For those of you who are coming on the line,
if you would be so kind to hit mute on your phone, just so we don’t pick up any background noise from you
and then later on as we open up for questions you can just unmute your phone and ask me a question. It may
be a little chaotic at the end, but that’s okay, we’ll work through it.

We’ve got some great information to share today. Looking forward to sharing it with everybody. This call will
be recorded, so we’ll have copies for everybody as we always do. And for those of you who weren’t on the call
earlier, we’ve had some technical difficulties with the main call in line. We don’t know what’s going on. It’s a
third party program we’ve been using for three years and never had an issue. Website’s up, everything else is
working but when people tried to dial in the phone wasn’t answering. And rather than fix it, we just went to
Plan B, so that’s a good rule in business, always have a Plan B. What is your secondary option, if the first plan
doesn’t work, worse number in business is one.

Jon, where are we at?

Jon: I was on mute. I’m typing, so text messages on its way out. The email has already gone out. So,
we’ve done what we can do on our end to notify everybody we’re on the new number.

Rich: So, good news is we’ll get the recording out to everybody. For those of you who—for anybody
who was supposed to be on the call and didn’t get on the call. Give a few more minutes.

Jon: Text message has been received just to let you guys know, it has been received.

Rich: Oh nice. Excellent. Got to love technology.

Wayne: I think there’s a mute all button in the lower right side on the uber conference, if you guys are
on this, and you click it and it unmutes everybody, mute and unmute.

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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Rich: Oh nice. There you go, Jon, see that? Wayne knows Uber better than you, how about that?

Jon: I’ve just used the phone number. I’ve never gone on the website.

Wayne: Every Friday.

Rich: I—so Jon, I don’t know if you actually—do you have the login credentials or now, cause if not I
can go on and do it.

Jon: Yeah, I just go on the phone part. Alright, in the bottom right corner, don’t hang everybody up,
But instead hit mute all.

Rich: Alright, I see everybody. That’s kind of cool, I can see where everybody is from. I love it. We
have people all over the country here, there you go. Now you don’t have to worry about your mute button,
we’ve muted you. Alright. Awesome.

Technology, isn’t that sexy? That’s good. Alright.

Wayne: Kind of cool. Better than just a phone line, right? That’s pretty awesome.

Rich: So we’re 10 minutes late. It’s not our fault, but doesn’t matter. I’m counting out loud to 3, 4, 5,
6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. That was better than the 25, oh I should do one extra cause last time Peter Daigle called me
on the fact that I didn’t actually do 25. He said I did like 23, my mouth was moving, but my arms weren’t. So
for those of you who are curious I do pushups every time I am late. So, okay. That’s cleaned up, that’s out of
the way. Technology is behind us. I think Jon, we won’t edit this part out. Let them all hear this when we play
this, I’d like to—I think it’s important, because remember the message is, that our business isn’t different from
there’s. So they’re going to run up against stuff. Whatever it is, when they get to the bankruptcy court and
they require paperless documents and all of a sudden their server goes down and they’ve got to figure out
how to punt.

You really should have Plan B. So if you use paperless in society and you don’t have Plan B, you might get
stuck, So Plan B is have a drive with you that has all your stuff backed up, God forbid your server goes down.
It’s one small example, in our case, we have three different ways to log on to a conference line and we had to
use Plan B today, which is cool. It’s called Uber Conference for those you that don’t know. A very nice service,
$10 a month you can get yourself a line. It’s got some nice features to it. I don’t know if it’s got a cap as to how
many people can attend. And it may cap out because I can see the numbers growing here, which is exciting.
So, today—so let’s start it off right. I’ll re-center my chi here after catching my breath and doing my pushups.

For those of you that don’t know what’s going on, we had to switch gears—cause I see a bunch of new people
have come on, but we switched gears. This is Richard James and we’re going to do today’s live interview with
an expert call and we’re doing it from a different conference line because the primary conference line we

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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

used, unfortunately went down. And it never went down in 3 years. It’s a third party service. Everything was
working before we started, and for whatever reason it stopped working and we don’t have any good answer
why and it doesn’t really matter. We have Plan B. We got out to everybody instantly via text message. Jon, are
you seeing some emails come through?

Jon: No, I don’t have my email come up.

Rich: I just saw Greg, I don’t know if he got this or not.

Jon: I’ll do it, you keep doing your thing.

Rich: So we’re now on to the next line. So today what was interesting about today, ironically enough,
we decided that a couple things, one I’ve been getting a whole bunch of questions about different subjects
from new members and I’ve been getting a lot of the same questions over and over again. Also I’ve been
getting some questions that I thought we kind of covered in some other material that it didn’t seem like we
did or we did a poor job of it. And then often times, I’m still getting the, Richard, your business is different
than our business answer. And so today on interview with an expert, and this month’s coaching call, what we
decided to do was flip the roles. And so rather than bring in an outside third party, which is nice to get
somebody else’s perspective. We decided to get my perspective. And so Jon is going to actually interview me
today. I’m going to be the expert, Jon is going to be the interviewer. We’re going to talk about what it’s like to
be in our business and specifically we’re going to talk about what we see as lawyers go through this process,
and one thing they need to focus on. So hopefully we can cover some of the basics that we keep getting
questions about over and over again. And hopefully we can dive into some more specific strategies, like there
was a great questions that went out on the queue, about direct mail. We might cover some of that, and buying
lists and I’m getting constant questions about radio and television advertising and what to do and what not to
do and we’re going to hopefully cover that.

So we’ll dive into a bunch of things. But Jon Alexander is going to be the person doing the interviewing. For
those of you who don’t know Jon, haven’t had the opportunity to meet Jon, he’s a partner with the firm and
he’s the acting business manager of the firm, so he runs the day to day operations, which is why when this
whole thing broke he was able to instantly log on and send everybody a text message and an email through
InfusionSoft so that you knew what was going on and Blaine Oelkers is on the call as well. He’s muted so you
can’t hear him, but Blaine is our implementation specialist and he was the first one to let us know, that
unfortunately the call was down.

Jon are you with me? Are you done doing what you need to do?

Jon: Yep, I’m all done. I’m right here.

Rich: Good. So what’s going to happen is we’re going to turn the call over to Jon. I’m going to let him
run like an interview as if I was coming on as a guest expert and we’re going to take it from this perspective.
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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Now, at the end of the call, unlike the service we were using before. Used to be that you pressed * 2 and you
raised your hand. Not going to be able to do that, cause we’re on a different system, so at the end of the call, I
think what we’ll do with the few minutes left is I will open the—we will open up the—unmute the call. Now
this is dangerous, I am going to tell you this in the beginning. This is going to be dangerous because there’s a
whole bunch of people on here. And some of you may talk over each other. So we’re just going to be
respectful of it.

First one to speak say your name, and I’ll just call on you. Everybody else, do me a favor mute your phones and
then we’ll let that person ask that question. If it gets too unruly, we’ll unfortunately have to mute it. It’s going
to be kind of trial by error, we’ll play with some fire here. But, I think we’ll be okay. So, you may not have any
questions. I don’t know, maybe we’ll do a good enough job answering all of them, but I have a feeling we may
be talking about some things you may want some clarity on. So without further ado.

And by the way, we’re going to go long, there’s no way to do this unless we go a little bit long. I’ve already
done my pushups so, alright. So Jon, without further ado, let me let you open up the interview.

Jon: Okay, great. Yeah. Not a problem. And just on the fact that if we do go a little bit long, like Rich
mentioned earlier, we do record these. You will get the CD as a whole thing. So we understand if at 2 o’clock
Pacific you’ve got to flip off for something else. You won’t miss anything, you’ll get it and it will be up within
the respective dashboard site for all members.

So, okay. Well, so let’s just start at the beginning. Typically how we start one of these is we kind of get
whoever we’re talking to, to tell a little bit about themselves and kind of give the short version of their bio, so
I’m going to ask Rich to do the same thing. Give us the short version of the bio and where we’re at today.

Rich: You’re assuming that I actually have a short version of the bio. Is that right?

Jon: I knew you didn’t, so I was trying to emphasize short. And we’ll see how it goes here.

Rich: Okay, so here’s the deal. So for those of you who don’t know me, and most of you on the call
do know me so we’re not going to go too crazy here. But the reality is I’ve had a very detailed career in
entrepreneurship. I was in the insurance business where I learned to sell. I was in the funeral business, where I
learned to build systems of duplication and professional service. Then I was in the pet supply business where
we had 3,000 mom and pop pet stores and I had more employees and that’s where I lost all my hair. We
then—I was in a mastermind where I was working with like-minded entrepreneurs and one of them happened
to work with attorneys and his business was broken from a systems perspective and I kind of saw myself as a
systems guy, so I was helping him. He paid me to consult with him and we fixed his business and from there
we said, hey let’s see if this works for attorneys and it did and then one attorney saw me speak and said, does
this stuff really work? And I said sure it does. And he said, well you want to prove it? I said what do you have in
mind? And he said well you can start with me in this new firm. You can’t own the firm, but if it works you get
to tell the world and if it doesn’t you get to fail miserably in a public forum.
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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

So I took that opportunity and we built that firm from 2 guys in a room to $3.5 million dollars in annual gross
sales and really, today’s call is going to be looking over the shoulder of what we did there and saying, Jon’s
question of, well, okay what would you do Rich if you were doing this all over again, cause that’s kind of the
question we get a lot. It’s one of the fundamental questions, but then from there, we built this company which
is the Automated Business Results. Also known as the Richard James and really what this company is all about
is creating a place where like-minded entrepreneurial attorneys can come together to find out what they can
do to take action, to get real measurable results in their practice to build a practice that supports their
lifestyle, rather than undermines it.

And we’ve really taken that seriously. It started off with me consulting and then from there it’s turned into me
learning how to develop a team that can develop a system and a program where attorneys can actually get the
most out of it. One wheel in the cog of that system is calls like this, where we can answer some commonly
asked questions and give some insight to attorneys.

That’s the general answer, Jon, did I give you what you needed?

Jon: Yeah, for sure. I do want to take a step back though and prior to the law firm, you joined a
mastermind group. What was that like, what was your thinking around that, and why? What was the purpose?

Rich: So, I read Think and Grow Rich in 1988 and that was given to me in ’87 took me a full year to
read it. Cause I was 17 years old and I finished in 1988 and in that book it talked about masterminds. And I had
joined light versions of them through the years, and then I became a Dan Kennedy fan in 2004. Started reading
his books and getting his newsletters and then when I moved to Phoenix, I knew—in Scranton there was no
GKIC, or Dan Kennedy kind of LBA, which is the local business advisor, but in Phoenix there was. So the first
thing I did was I hit up the local Phoenix business advisor, and his name was Chuck Troutman, he now founded
Arizona Marketing Association. And I said to him, I said, hey I’m interested in this mastermind thing and then
he had told me the price. And in 2008, we were in the middle of a recession and the pet supply business
wasn’t doing as good as it was. Our industry pretty much disappeared, so cash flow was a concern and so I was
like, oh, I had a list. I had a list of reasons why I shouldn’t be in that mastermind.

And Chuck, thank goodness. Said, I get all your BS, but I’m going to call you on every one of them. He took the
time to call me on every one of my BS and he said, I should do it. And I did. He wouldn’t let me in for a month
and try it. He said, no you commit for a year or don’t come in at all. And I did and because I did that, that
literally changed the course of my entrepreneurial career because I entered into a group of like-minded
entrepreneurs who were—they were not attorneys. Who were working on their businesses and I found out a
place where I just wasn’t alone anymore. I was with people who kind of knew what I knew and thought what I
thought and it was great.

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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Jon: Awesome, yeah. We both kind of have the mastermind concept and idea as a background. And
so, how is that different than just five guys getting together every once in a while to work on their business.
What’s the difference between a mastermind and three guys just doing something?

Rich: So a mastermind is, the difference is the mastermind, usually has a facilitator, so somebody
who is there to either offer suggestions or not offer suggestions but make sure we stay on time and then what
happens is every person gets to come up and actually bring—bring a problem. Not everybody, but at least a
segment of the people who want to get to bring a problem with them that then all of the people that are in
the mastermind work on together, collectively to solve that problem.

So there’s no orderly fashion to it, it’s somewhat chaotic. They get the problem, they get the summary, they
ask a question, and then people just start raising their hands, shouting out answers and the facilitator does his
best to control the environment and you’re getting like ideas pounded at you, so that’s why we recommend
you record your session. And then—but three guys getting together they’re not necessarily—they’re not
necessarily doing that. They’re talking about their problems or their challenges and they may or may not work
on those in an organized, structured facilitated way, but this is an organized, structured, facilitated way.

The other thing I’d say is, sometimes three guys in a room, will either be butcher, baker, candlestick maker, so
they’ll be three different business owners, from three different industries which has it’s place. Or they’re going
to be three attorneys in three different practice areas in their town or whatever, and those have their place,
cause they’re local. But when you start to get all entrepreneurial attorneys in one room, serving many
different practice areas and they’re bringing their thoughts of, the criminal guy in Georgia is talking about how
he’s using his book and the PI guy in California is saying, I wonder if I could do that in my practice, the power
of what happens with that third mind that Blaine talks about is just incredible.

Jon: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that—I know we throw these terms around a lot, and just
even in our men’s group, our small group, we get guys kind of look out of us out of one other eye. And I
wanted to make sure that as we use the term mastermind, that everybody is fully aware of our definition of it,
and what we think it is.

So the mastermind led to the law firm. The law firm as you went through the process, you obviously learned a
lot of things to use in the law firm, made it very successful. So, out of that, out of the process of making that
successful, what did you learn after the fact, that if you went back into the law firm—we talk about all the
time about the three big keys. What are the three big things that you would change if you got dumped back
into another law firm tomorrow and had to run somebody’s business?

Rich: Good question. Okay, so, by the way everybody, you might think just because Jon and I work
together these are all scripted. We have an idea. We certainly have an outline of what we want to talk about
but I have no idea what Jon’s going to ask me. So he could stump me at any moment.

Jon: That’s my goal.

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Suite 10200,
Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Rich: Yeah, thanks. So, okay, so here’s the answer. But before I answer that question, I need to frame
it correctly. I think the most important thing, that you must do when you step into any situation like that, and
if you look at your law firm right now with a new set of eyes and imagine yourself stepping into the law firm
right now, as new. As if you bought it yesterday, what would you do today?

The first thing I find that everybody struggles with is the mindset. So they’ve got to get the mindset right that
they’re going to have do things maybe a little differently than the way they thought it was supposed to be
done, because lawyers, for the most part get it wrong. And the other thing is, even if you find yourself in a
situation where you’re somewhat content right now, it’s funny, our business is, I would say we’re having a
really good year, would you agree?

Jon: Absolutely.

Rich: We’re up—just last month up 106%, we’re up 95.5% on the year as I can tell from the profit loss
I looked at this morning and the beginning of the week I wrote this question. It’s on an index card and it’s on
my computer screen right now. And it said, what needs to happen this year for me to consider it a win?

Now, I’m writing this question in June. By all definition this year is already a win. But why in the world would I
ask myself this question? I could stop right now, we could theoretically stop right now and we could consider
this year a win. We’ll be the percentage that we want to be up and we’ll hit our goals. But, why do I have to
ask that question? The answer is because I’ve got this mindset that I’ve got to recognize that if we’re not
moving forward, we’re moving backwards. And so we have to consistently be looking to move forward.

So the question is, what three things would I do to move the firm forward from where it is right now? The
answer is this. There are three things that I would pay attention to. First above all, assuming you’re not a
contingency firm, if you’re a contingency firm I need to alter this answer just a little bit. But if you’re not a
contingency firm, the very first thing I’m going to pay attention above all else, is the telephone, and I’m going
to use the telephone to figure out if we’re using the telephone accurately to both answer inbound calls to
make sure we’re answering the phone correctly and converting as many leads as we can. Harvesting the data
on every single lead. We’re also making calls to—outbound calls to the unconverted leads to those people that
would have not set an appointment, not showed up to their appointment, not hired from the appointment.
And I would go back as far as two or three years in my data. And I would go back and even if they were printed
files and were not stored electronically. Whatever form I could find the people who came into the office, and
who didn’t hire the firm, or who were supposed to come into the office and didn’t show up. Called the office if
we are harvesting this information and didn’t set an appointment. I would go back as far as I can, even as far
back as a couple of years, and I would put somebody on the phone to start calling those people.

And then the other thing I would use, this is where the contingency firm comes in, if you are a contingency
firm you don’t have this issues, but if you are a non-contingency firm, meaning you bill hourly or you bill flat
fee, I would put this outbound phone person in place to make sure that all of my collections or my cash flow

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Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

was working appropriately. So I know—these are three—this is probably three things within one thing, but the
telephone, if I did nothing else, like if I did nothing else, and I only did that one thing, Jon, that’s what I would
do. Now there’s other things I would do too, but I want to start there. I want to stop and make sure you don’t
have any questions about that before I go any further.

Jon: No, so the phone has got three components to it, if I understand this right. You’re going to fix
the inbound calls. So the leads that are already coming in, we’re going to do a better job with those. I’m not
going to spend any more money getting leads, I’m just going to do a better job with the ones that are coming
in.

I’m going to go find this pile of leads I’ve got in the corner and start digging for gold. Because there’s money in
there. And then I’m going to immediately get on and try to get everybody on a payment plan or collect money
to generate—to increase the revenue.

Rich: That’s correct. That’s the first thing I did, so the first thing we did when we built that firm
locally. It was two guys in a room, but the reality is he broke off his partnership. So when he broke off his
partnership, he was given a bunch of clients who were on payment plans, cause it was a bankruptcy firm, so
there was no money in escrow or anything. It was earned on receipts. So he was given a bunch of people who
were on payment plans that were supposed to pay him, but most of them were like not paying.

And so he was given those and then he had access to the database. They broke it up by alphabet. One guy
took A to N and the other guy took N to Z or whatever. And so, they literally just split the case load right down
the middle and so then what we did, is we just took that database that he had, whatever it was. Whether it
was sets, no sets, no hires and we just sorted that out and the very first thing I did, Mark is actually the first
hire for those of you who know Mark. He works for our firm. He actually got on the phone and he picked up
the phone and he started dialing for dollars on those unconverted leads and people that owed the firm
money, that were supposed to be on plan, and trying to create instant cash, without any advertising dollars at
all.

Because the only ad we had was the yellow pages ad at that point, the website was like 90 days from being
completed cause we worked with Fine Law to get started, so they took like 90 days to get started. We didn’t
know how to use television or radio, nor did we have the money for it, so we had like no way to generate
leads other than to work the old files. The only way we could do it was to go back to the old files and do it. So
that’s what we had to do.

Jon: Awesome. And you think 2-3 years regardless of what’s going on, you can still go back and call
that old.

Rich: Yep, I would. With Jackson Turner (27:26) they might be on the call, I don’t know, but they
were—they told us in the last mastermind that they called two—matter of fact the lady, I think it was Paula,
she was there, she said she called two years back of people that they had never called before, they had never
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877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

bought and I think within the first few weeks they said they got 13 clients out of it or something like that. So
yeah, two years, I’d absolutely go back—here’s the answer Jon, I’d go as far as back as I could until it stopped
working.

So I’d go a year back, right? And then after I worked through all of those, and if I ran out of people to call, I’d
start calling two years back and as long as I was getting clients out of it, there was an ROI for what I’m paying
the person on the phone, I’d keep going until I stopped getting a return on investment. Because the fact of the
matter is, that the biggest problem attorneys have is they can’t solicit. One of the problems attorneys have is
they can’t solicit right? But once somebody raises their hand and got on their list, they’re not soliciting
anymore. They’re calling that person because they were interested and they’re calling to check up to see if
they still have a need. So they can do that.

So I’d keep calling til it stopped working.

Jon: Okay. So, from a practical standpoint, what would you say on that initial call. If I’m going to call
an outbound, what am I going to say? You came into the office, I’m calling to check to see if you still need us
to do blank?

Rich: Okay, so, it all depends, and I don’t mean to sound like a lawyer, but it all depends on the
practice area. In bankruptcy we’re going to just, first the first. See you have to understand when you are on
the phone, before you get to what to say, the first is understanding that you’re going to make 100 phone calls
to talk to 10 people. And so, that’s the first understanding is that you are going to make 100 phone calls to talk
to 10 people. So first we’re going to get committed that somebody is going to make 100 phone calls.

Then once they connect with the 10 people, I’ll tell you the bankruptcy story, cause it’s the one that we did. At
that point we had a book, so what we did is, we offered them a copy of the book. Now it was a rough form of
the book. It was a very rough form of the book, but we had a copy of the book, so we started the in with, the
attorney just wrote this book and wanted to get a copy in your hands. He didn’t have this book when you first
called us and it was the opening line and that was a lot of the voice mails that we left to start to create—figure
out who was interested and who wasn’t.

Then we would use that—all it was, was a dialogue creator. We just wanted them to get talking with us
because once they said yes to being willing to take a free book, the person would then go right into the Q and
A section. So Mark would say, so tell me, why did you call the firm? What’s going on with you financially? Are
you suffering from possible foreclosure or was it a repo or garnishment? And so we give choices and then
when we asked that question, they gave the answer and then Mark was trained to just say, well tell me more
about that. And then the person would tell him more about that and then Mark would do his best to find a
way to relate to them.

Now remember, Mark was a 21 year old kid. So, he was young, he didn’t have a lot of ways to relate to them,
so all he could really do was ask. So, he just kept asking and then what he would is he would say, you know, I
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think—and again, we like to train off the book, so what he would say is well, you’re going to love the book
because on Page 23, the attorney talks about that very issue. And oh by the way, I notice that you weren’t
able to make it into that last appointment, or I notice that you came into see the attorney six months ago, but
you didn’t do anything. Let’s get you back in and see if your situation has changed and see if we can help you
now.

And then they may have—and at that point, then you have to have a list of overcoming objections, because if
they came in and they didn’t do anything, maybe it was the fee was too expensive, or I didn’t have any money.
Or it wasn’t the right time, or some other reason that we need to have a list of objections we overcome. So
what we did is we made a list of the objections so that Mark kind of knew what to say, and sometimes, Mark
came up to an objection he didn’t know the answer to. So what happened is, he wouldn’t know how to handle
that objection and he’d bring it to me, every day we’d sit down and we’d meet. Literally every day and we’d
talk about the objections. And we covered that objection with him and then he’d call Sally back and he said
hey, I found the answer to that question that you asked.

And that’s how we’d work through it.

Jon: So what you’re really telling me in all that. Is you just need to create a reason why.

Rich: That’s right.

Jon: So in your case you had a book, it could be a CD, you’re just creating a reason why to give them
a call and have the conversation with them.

Rich: But you know what, I don’t want them to get stuck on this, because a lot of people on the call
don’t have a book, so forget about the book. So we had a book, but forget about it. I wouldn’t worry about it. I
would just put mom on the phone, grandma on the phone, somebody, the best of the worst employees that
you have on the phone and just start saying, just start with the first conversation, hey I’m calling from
Attorney Smith’s office, you had called and scheduled an appointment or you came in to see us, or whatever it
was and I’m just calling to check in and see what’s going on with your life. Are you still suffering from that
same problem?

Here’s the biggest demoralizing factor that’s going to happen. When you do this, what’s going to become
crystal clear to you is you’re going to get a bunch of people who didn’t show up to their appointment, who you
now call back 6 months, 8 months later and they hired another attorney. And they never had the opportunity
to meet with you. And that is going to be what smacks you right in the teeth and realize, oh my goodness, I
never even had a chance. It’s going to hurt at first. And what I needed to do, I needed to inspire them. Because
when you do this regularly you don’t become—you don’t fall victim to this nearly as often when you do it
regularly. When they say they‘ve hired somebody else, let me tell you, that hurts. It does. It hurts. You just
watch money fly out the door. You knew they needed to hire somebody. You knew you were the best person
for them to possibly hire. There’s no reason they should hire anybody else, and yet they went and hired
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somebody else, most likely because you assumed when they didn’t show up that they were saying no. They
were just saying not right now.

Jon: Yeah, and that makes sense. That makes total sense. I mean, logically it makes sense, but
emotionally, I can see why it hurts. I can see what it’s going to cause going backwards, so at least you don’t do
it going forward.

Rich: It hurts, man, it does.

Jon: So we hammered the phone I think to death, which we do a lot because I think it’s the greatest
aspect of making change in a law firm tomorrow. They listen to the call, they go fix it tomorrow.

So, what are the—let’s not go into the other, well, now I brought it up, I have to. What are the other two
things, that if you are going to step in, you worked on the unconverted, we dealt with the phones. What else
would you mess with?

Rich: So I wouldn’t, not going to spend a lot of time on this.

Jon: Yeah, don’t.

Rich: Cause, the phones are—but here’s the two things I would do. I would want to make sure I start
positioning the firm properly and increase the show rate, if I had a show rate problem, so I would add a shock
and awe package right away. So I want to take the people from asking why should I hire you to will you take
my case and literally by adding the shock and awe, that will do it. For those of you in the program, you’ve got a
cash infusion guide. You can turn to that and find out more about that.

The other thing I’m going to do is I want to start working my referrals. I want to start getting referrals on
purpose rather than by drive by shooting. Most attorneys don’t know where they’re referrals come from, or
how many they get. I equate it to a drive by shooting, they just never know when they’re going to show up. So,
that’s the worst way to run referrals, I want to run it on purpose. So by using the keep in touch letter that
we’ve put together for you, I would start working my referrals, cause it takes time, but I start working it right
away.

Those are the two things that I would do. And again these are not marketing ideas. These are—well that’s not
accurate. They are marketing ideas, they’re not advertising ideas. So, these aren’t like ways to place a new ad
to get a new lead, these are ways to convert the leads you’ve already got or the clients you’ve already got.

Jon: For sure. For sure. Now that we’ve started working down this process, obviously now we’ve got
to start tracking something. So how do you know that you are on track? What are the things we’re going to
track and how do you—do you have any things that you call lead indicators, so things that you know if this
occurs, this is what’s going to happen in the end?

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Rich: You mean—

Jon: That was a double-ended question.

Rich: Do I know if a lead comes from somewhere, what’s going to happen in the end, is that what
you’re asking me?

Jon: No, so my point being is, there’s a difference between a referral and a book, so the referral
typically, if you get a referral you should do a pretty good job of closing those. If you get a book we’ve got
them an earlier stage. So I’m talking about, through the perfect client lifecycle, how do you work through the
client lifecycle to know if I need 10 clients this month, where do they come from? Does that ask it any better?

Rich: Yeah, so, well, let me answer that with a question, so are you asking me, if I want 10 new
clients, how do I work the perfect client lifecycle backwards?

Jon: Exactly. Yeah, that’s how we get on track, right? Because clients, we want to be on purpose for
clients, that’s what your referral funnel is, be on purpose for clients.

Rich: So I think the answer to your question, for those who are on the call that maybe we might have
confused. So here’s how I would answer it. You can’t do any of this, can’t is a tough word, but I think it’s
accurate, you really can’t do any of this, unless you are committed that you’re going to measure it. So that
mindset that I talked about in the beginning, you have to be committed to measuring it. And in order to be—
the way we measure, the way we teach to measure around here, is what we call the perfect client lifecycle,
that’s where we measure the number of leads we get, versus the number of people who set appointments,
versus the number of people who show up for their appointment, versus the number of people who hire when
they show up for their appointment, versus the number of people who pay in full, if you’re a non-contingency.
Versus the number of people who refer you business.

And that’s what we call the perfect client lifecycle and so if I want 10 clients, and I don’t want to do this math
on the phone. If I want 10 clients I’m going to work that backwards. I’m going to say, well, in order to get 10
clients I have to meet with X number of people because I know what my close rate is, I’m measuring it, right?
In order to meet with X number of people, I’ve got to Y number of people to set up appointments, because I
know what our show rate is. In order to get Y number of people to show up for appointments, I know I have to
get W number of leads because I know what our set rate is, and so I know that if I’m going to get W number of
leads, non-referrals. If I’m going out there and I’m advertising for business, using the book or something else,
and each lead costs me $50, then I’m going to have to spend this amount of money, $50 times X number of
leads every week in order to generate the number of cases I want. Does that make sense?

Jon: Yeah, yep. Absolutely.

Rich: Is that what you were looking for?

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Jon: Yeah. Somewhat, so, yes it was what I was looking for. But that brings us to the next step, so
what is the difference between a lead and an appointment.

Rich: Okay, so, that’s a good question. So, the story is, people always say to me, well when—a lot of
times when we have our first appointment with a client, we’ll say how many leads did you have this week or
this month, and they’ll go to their calendar and they’ll start counting their appointments. And we have to say,
no, that’s—we’re asking how many leads, not how many appointments. And they’ll say, if they don’t set an
appointment, I don’t keep track of them. So there’s the first mistake. So most attorneys, and many law firms,
only take information on people who set appointments. There’s a whole segment of people who call your
firm, who don’t set an appointment, whether it was because they weren’t ready, they were just shopping
around, battle axe Bertha who answered the phone ticked them off, whatever.

They just didn’t set an appointment or you didn’t have any availability at a time they wanted to schedule it or
they got their answering service, or whatever the reasons are. And so those are leads. So leads are somebody
who calls your firm, whether they set an appointment or not. Make sense?

As we progress through this, one of the questions is often, well I’m going to let you ask the question, I’m not
going to create questions. I could create more work for myself. Go ahead.

Jon: For sure. So as we go through this, and we figure this part out, now we have to generate leads.
The three—three of the ways that everybody talks about right now, we talk about radio and TV, a lot of them
talk about the web. So, when it comes to radio, TV, and the web, is there a separate goal for each as far as
generating leads? What’s kind of the goal driven method of generating leads through those three methods?

Rich: Okay, so the goal is—well, okay, so the goal is to place an ad and make the phone ring,
fundamentally. However on the web, so, there’s multiple different ways for people to respond. So on the web,
somebody can respond by picking up the phone and dialing. Somebody can respond by filling out a web form
which you get via your email but they’ve filled out a form and take action. Or you can have a chat session with
somebody and they could express interest. On the website there are multiple ways for them to connect with
you, but regardless or the way that they connect with you, the goal is the same, is to measure how much is
each lead costing me? So if I spend $1000 on advertising in that particular media, so television, radio, web,
doesn’t matter what media it is, newspaper ads how much did that lead cost me? That’s the first thing I want
to know, that’s the first goal I want to know. So does that answer your question?

Jon: For sure. So just going to the web and web form and chat aspect of this. How important is
speed to getting back to the clients that come through that method?

Rich: So for anybody who either hasn’t heard or forgot or hasn’t gotten to it yet, my module on
speed is—I site that if you were to look at the response rate of a person who moves through the perfect client
lifecycle, they’ve measured this, research centers have measured this. To get a prospect to move from one
stage to the next, whatever your stage is. In this case we’re talking about setting an appointment, so being a
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lead and setting an appointment, you are 392% more likely to set a person to the next stage if you
communicate with them within 1 minute as compared to 30 minutes.

So, if it takes you 30 minutes or longer, longer it gets worse, but 30 minutes to communicate with a new lead
that comes in, via chat or email, or the phone that doesn’t get answered, you are 392% less likely to schedule
an appointment than if you communicated with them within the first minute. So speed is vital.

Jon: That’s significant.

Rich: We used to measure how long it took to get back, cause we put some software in that—and
we’re not going to suggest everybody do this, but we did, we put some software in that actually made sure
that any email that came in, we actually made it ring the phone so that there was no delay time. So it actually
went into a server and then the server, it was called Speak for Leads, for anybody who wants it, the server just
would send over the phone call, the email, turn it into a phone call and send it over to the person answer the
phones, so rather than have to wait for them see their email, they just got a phone call instantly when it
happened.

Often times, somebody would fill out the form, the email went over and then we were on the phone with
them before they even stopped navigating the site. And they were like, that’s spooky, do you have a camera
on or something in my house. I’m serious, they were freaked out by it. They were wondering how we got to
them so fast. We got that question a lot, once you got over that initial shock you were able to have a
conversation with them about why it was so important for us to get to them cause we knew their need was
urgent.

Anyway, so speed is important.

Jon: So, we’ve got web, radio, TV, we know that the goal is dollars per lead when it gets right down
to it. We talk a lot about tracking lines and everything else to figure out which ones of those are working. It
seems to me that, utilizing tracking lines and trying to do all this stuff, first of all it’s a lot of work. Second of all,
every time you go to a service provider, say you go to a radio station and say, hey I want to run an ad, is they
fight against that. It almost is like clockwork, if somebody wants to run a radio, the next question that is going
to come in, in a week is hey, they want me to do this instead of what you guys suggest. So why do you think
that is and what’s your answer to that?

Rich: So first of all, I actually consider myself, for the purposes of professional services like law, and
funerals now and things like that, where we’re going to use the book in our marketing, I actually consider
myself an expert in this world of how to use it on television and radio and I’ve got one real good answer to this
question of how to use it, and that’s what I teach. And the reason is because for a really long time, I sucked at
it. I mean, I was really bad at it. And the reason I was really bad at it, is because when we built that firm, what I
did is, I went out and is started listening to everybody in the industry. I did what everybody else does. I picked
up the phone, I called all the channels in the valley, I called everybody that I knew and I started interviewing
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people to do production work and we got all sorts of crazy quotes. $25,000-$30,000 to shoot a single video
and that kind of stupid stuff and then we got—then we found the person we were going to use and they
started telling us what we had to do to become successful on television and radio.

And the answer was always the same, the answer was, you need to run 30-second commercials and you need
to run them over and over and over again because frequency is king, because you want them to get to know
you, you need to brand your office, you want to get people to know your name and you want—when people
are in that situation, you want to be in front of them, so frequency is kind. So they did a great job of selling me
on this, and they were very believable and so I took their advice. And it completely bombed. I mean, it didn’t
work at all. And I started to believe that it just wasn’t going to work. And so, then what happened was, I was
going to pull the plug and the broker said to me, or the agency said to me, hey let’s try one more thing. And I
said, what is that? He said it’s a segment. What’s a segment? That’s where you’ll be interviewed locally. One of
the local people on TV, the attorney will be interviewed, and we can do an interview. We just have to come up
with something to do an interview on.

I’m like, can I do an interview on the book? And they said, yeah absolutely, cause I already knew the book
worked. So I said, okay, let’s do the interview on the book and we did the interview on the book and all of a
sudden it started working. So now here is the lesson in this. The broker told us that the book interview
probably wouldn’t work. They said, it’s too long, nobody is going to be interested in it. Nobody is going to
want to watch an interview about a book first thing. The second thing was is they said, this should just be a
supplement to your overall advertising, you still need to do all the stuff. This is going to supplement it.

The third thing that they said was that you’re only going to be able to do this once a month, you can’t do it
more than once a month. And I said, okay, well, but it started working. Now, we were smart enough to track
everything, so knew all the other ads we were doing still weren’t working. The only ad that was working was
the segment ad that we did with the book, and I said to them, well, okay, so why—I want to switch—I want to
do the book twice a month. Well you can’t do it. Why can’t you do it? Cause nobody does it. I don’t care if
nobody does it. Do we have to shoot another one or can they just re-run that same ad?

No they’ll re-run the same ad for you for a couple weeks and they’ll make you come shoot another one.
Alright, well let’s re-run the same ad. And then we ran it every other week and it worked. And it was still the
only thing that was working. And then I said, well let’s run it every week. Oh you can’t do it, it will never work.
What do you mean we can’t do it, let’s try it and see if it works. Finally I got brazen and I recognized—so
here’s what’s happened. The industry, the television, the radio, that industry, the brokers, the agents, all the
people in that industry are trained to give the same answer. Now I don’t want to say that they’re giving that
answer because it’s in their best interest because I don’t actually believe that. I believe it’s in their best
interest to get results for the client. And I think that they know that. And I think they all sincerely want to get
results for the client, but I don’t think any of them have actually been trained on what direct response can do
and the power of a lead magnet. I think they’ve been trained the traditional marketing way and this is the way
that it’s always been done, so this is the way we’re going to do it, and they’ve been brainwashed by the big
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dumb companies like Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Burger King and McDonalds and the such that just put out
these fancy ads and they get no results.

Remember that little Mexican dog or whatever from Taco Bell?

Jon: Yeah.

Rich: Everybody knew that, the Chihuahua Taco Bell, so that dog was like ridiculously famous and
they found out that there was not a single increase. Not a single increase in sales conversion from using that
dog in their advertising. I believe there’s a similar stat for the GEICO lizard.

Jon: There is.

Rich: Am I right?

Jon: Yep. GEICO’s market share since they’ve started, as cool as it is and we talk about all the
commercials, hasn’t moved, literally a 10th of a point, hasn’t.

Rich: So, big dumb companies have trained everybody that that adverting works. And it’s a trickle
down effect, and then when you get to the mom and pop guy. Here’s the other big lie that’s told in television
and radio. You’ve got to have $20,000 to do it. That’s what I was told. I was told—the reason they told me our
stuff wasn’t working is because we weren’t spending enough. Because our competitor, the number one
competitor in the valley who was in bankruptcy as well was spending $200,000 a month on television. That
was their budget.

I had $5,000. And they told me the reason it wasn’t going to work and they kind of told me, I told you so, after
we told them to do it anyway, they said, I told you so. And by the way the attorney was believing I told you so
too because I’m the business manager marketing guy right? And he’s going, they told us it wasn’t going to
work, and see it’s not working. And I just didn’t believe it. And so, it was when we found segments, we were
spending a thousand dollars for those segments and I ran one segment a week and each segment, in the
beginning was getting me like between 60-80 leads, on average after it was all said and done, after the hype
boiled down, we were averaging $30 a lead on those segments. Which means we were getting 33 leads a
week, $130 leads a month by spending $1000 a week, less than $5000 a month on advertising.

So this lie that is perpetuated by the marketing world, by the TV and Cable world up there, is really keeping
the small mom and pop lawyer from advertising on TV and radio because they’re telling them that they have
to use $20,000 budget or they can’t do it. And it’s just not true. I built it with $5,000. I see now, I saw a report
the other day, that old firm that I was with is now at about $70,000 a month, but they started with $5000.

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Jon: Yeah, so it makes. You made it work on the $5,000 budget because you changed the model. On
a large budget, to be a brand and make frequency, yeah, it makes sense you would need a large budget to
make it work.

Rich: But we just proved that even with the large budget, it doesn’t work. So GEICO and Taco Bell,
they’ve got billions to spend and they literally didn’t—it didn’t work. So small business guy or gal can’t afford
to do that, so just be prepared if you are listening to this call and you are thinking about doing television or
radio you are going to be in for a fight. Danielle Crainey the other day sent me an email saying, I love these
emails. I tell my wife about them and she doesn’t believe them. They start off by saying, you were right. And
it’s good for my ego, because nobody else in my family believes this. But it started out by saying you were
right, they did exactly what you said they were going to do. They came back and said they couldn’t do any
two-minutes, they couldn’t do any one minutes, all they could do was 30-seconds. Peter Daigle had the same
problem. They told him they want him to do all 30-seconds. Now I think as I understand it, he got them to do
one minute, but he was working with cable, so he still was struggling to get 2 minute segments.

So what we did by the way, is we took the idea of the segments and we just started filming them on our own.
That’s how we did this. And I got a question from an attorney today, Scott, was sending me an email saying,
hey, does this stuff really work? Would you do—I haven’t answered his question yet, so I’m going to answer it
here, I don’t know if he’s on the call or not. Would you run the interview section on radio?

And would you do it for this particular practice area? As if maybe it was—one practice area to another I would
do it different. And the answer is absolutely. One of the answers is, one of the reasons is, is because it’s not—
it’s unlike what anybody else is doing. Everybody else is trying to come up with a unique jingle. Everybody else
is trying to come up with a unique way of saying, bankruptcy is sexy or personal injury is sexy, or DUI is sexy,
making you stand out somehow. And everybody else is failing because the reality is, is nobody cares. What
they care about is what’s interesting to them, and what’s interesting to them is a pattern interrupt. Something
that is different than everything else.

And what’s different than anything else is this interview style. And the interview gets people to listen and it
positions you differently and then we use a free lead magnet where they call in for a copy of the book and
yeah, it works. So I would use the interview style on radio. Not would, I did, I used the interview style on radio,
I would use the interview style on television, I’d even argue using the interview style on the internet which is
what we do when I’m interviewed about my book.

Jon: Okay, so let’s switch gears just a little bit from radio, TV, the web and all that stuff to the
mailbox. To direct mail. So, how much different do you think direct mail is from those other mediums?

Rich: Okay, so, well, you know this answer, but I know you are asking me because I’m supposed to
answer. Because, so we teach that it’s the message market media mash. So we teach that you’ve got to get
your message right, you’ve got to get your market right—the target market that is, and you’ve got to get your

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media right and if you can get those three things right, good things happen. And so what you’re talking about
is media. Media is defined as the delivery of the message to the market. And so, I was talking to a PI attorney
not long ago and they were talking about how in their particular jurisdiction, the state police and the local
police would actually give them the accident reports for the day.

So, they would send investigators out to get the accident reports for the day and then in their area, the bar
association allowed PI attorneys to direct mail accident reports. So you’ve got a PI attorney who is direct
mailing a known list. Can you imagine having that list, Jon?

Jon: Gold.

Rich: Right? By the way if anybody is in PI and they just didn’t hear that. By the way if anybody is not
in like—just take that and—if you’re a bankruptcy attorney can you pull the foreclosure list? If you are a
criminal attorney can you pull the criminal docket? What can you do to get the information to target market
your list and so, direct mail, the only way I would say, the only way that direct—in the way that direct mail is a
media differs from the other medias, it’s still a media, what it allows you to do, is it allows you to hyper focus
on the group of people that you want to focus on, whereas the other types of media are what we call mass
media. Now, you can do this on the internet too as you know, and I know, with pay per click, but I’m not going
to go down that tunnel, but with direct mail, you can hyper—if you can get the list, if you can buy the list or
access the list in some way, build it, borrow it, buy it, you can direct mail to that list and you can send your
message out.

Yes, I know that there are some states, including Arizona, that have restrictions when you direct mail. Like we
had to put advertising material on the envelope and the advertising material words had to be twice the size of
the font of the mailing address. So we made the mailing address really small. But the advertising material had
to be twice the size and it was, we had to be compliant but it still works. The answer is it doesn’t differ, sorry,
except that it will allow you to hyper focus, does that answer the question?

Jon: Yeah, it does answer the question. And I think the PI example, the key to what’s making that PI
thing work, is the fact that they’re going and pulling the list every day. Because it’s the same speed answer.
You’ve got a market that’s available to you, but if you hit it once a month, it’s not nearly as proactive as going
and getting that list every day.

Rich: Right, so we’re at about 5 minutes after we started about 15 minutes late, after it was all said
and done, how much time if you want to give if anybody wants to ask a question?

Jon: Let’s do it right now.

Rich: We can keep going. We’ll go to about quarter after. I’ll even stay longer if everybody’s got a
bunch of questions. So I’ve talked about some big subjects. You’re going to unmute them. So everybody listen,

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Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

we’re going to unmute you. Do me a favor, if you’re not going to ask a question, hit mute on your phone. So
that we don’t hear what’s going on in your background.

Blaine: Can you guys hear me?

Rich: I can hear whoever just said hello.

Blaine: Yeah, this is Blaine by the way, you’re going to have people hit star, star.

Rich: Alright, so let’s mute them back out cause somebody has put us on hold. There we go. And
Blaine said you can hit star, star and unmute yourself apparently.

Blaine: Yes, can you guys hear me now?

Rich: Yeah, there we go.

Blaine: I unmuted myself but now I don’t have any questions, just to say you guys are doing a great job
and now I’m going to go back on mute.

Rich: So pressed star, star to go back on mute again, I take it.

Blaine: I’m not sure if that works, but I’ll try it, if you don’t hear from me then it works. Can you still
hear me?

Jon: I can turn him back off, I have the consul.

Rich: So press star, star and you can individually unmute yourself. Gotta love Blaine, he’s on the ball.
Alright, so if anybody has questions, you can unmute yourself, otherwise we’ll keep going for a few more
minutes. So if you want to just unmute yourself and say hello, just speak up and ask your question. So, Jon
what other questions do you have?

Jon: So, as we’re wrapping this thing up, let’s go ahead and finish this direct mail discussion. And the
idea of a newsletter.

Rich: Okay.

Jon: So, wasn’t one of your big three that you would start with, but how important is a newsletter in
a practice?

Rich: So the reason why it wasn’t one of my big three, is because I’m not going to get most people to
believe me, because adding a newsletter, a printed newsletter, not an electronic newsletter, is one of the
most valuable tools for your firm if you want to A) increase your referrals, and B) add another practice area
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877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

somewhere down the line. So if you want to increase your referral rate, it’s going to take time and you’re not
going to be able to directly track it to your newsletter most likely you’ll try and you’ll get some but it’s going to
be most likely you’re not going to see it. But if you use a newsletter, incorporate a newsletter with something
interesting like a recipe or something cool or different that is not just news about your firm and news about
the industry, but really, something interesting that people can use, and it can be as simple as an 8 ½ x 11 or 11
x 17 piece of paper, doubled sided, a different color but black and white print. And you can put like a recipe of
the month on there, and I promise you, your cliental will start to keep them, they’ll start to put them away,
they’ll start to look forward to receiving them and the more interesting your newsletter, the better the
relationship you’re going to build with your clients.

The reason why we use a newsletter, the fundamental reason is to build what we call, an iron fence around
your clients. Because when you’re in a competitive market of any kind, you end up with a potential
competitors who could very well poach your clients, because let’s say you’re a firm that you handle
bankruptcy and you handle PI and you handle tax work and you handled somebody’s bankruptcy and they
only know you as you’re they’re bankruptcy attorney and that’s what they think you do for them. And they
don’t necessarily know that you do personal injury work, because you don’t have a newsletter and you don’t
communicate with them.

And now they get injured in a car accident and they see the guy on the billboard with, in a wreck, need a
check? And they hear that on the telephone or on the radio and they pick up the phone and they call them.
And then you see that guy or gal down at the bank, three weeks later and they actually brag to you about the
fact that they got hurt and went to another attorney because they think that you couldn’t have helped them
anyway. So they actually come up to you and tell you their story. Cause you say how are you doing? They
don’t feel sheepish about it, they don’t think they took business away from you. They actually tell you about
how they hired another attorney and how good of job they’re doing. And they think that it’s okay, because
they don’t think you do that kind of practice area. Now if you don’t do that practice area, great. But if you
really wanted that case, if you really wanted that PI case, because you actually do take it, the way for you to
have let them know is if you had them on a newsletter and you did PI work, and you created a free report or a
book or an interview or something, during the newsletter you just put in what’s called a free-standing insert
and you announce to them that you do PI work.

And in future newsletters you just put a blurb on there, reminding them that you do PI work and you can get a
free copy of this report, newsletter or CD or book or whatever it is. And so, that’s the reason why you want to
build a—the reason why you want to use a newsletter. The problem is, Jon, when I say to this people, they say,
well how long should I send the newsletter for? How many people—what percentage of my client base should
I send the newsletter to? Do I really have to send it to everybody? So, because if you take that firm that we
helped, that I helped build in Phoenix, so within 3 years, there were a couple thousand people on the list.

So now if you had a buck a month at least, in this newsletter going out the door, so you had $2000 every
month that was going to be allocated for this marketing source, and you couldn’t necessarily tie any revenue
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Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

to it. You can try but it’s not easy. And so how do you convince them to keep spending that $2000 every single
month and the answer is that you just have to know that the more you do it, the more feedback you’re going
to get from your clients, the more you are going to see your referrals come in, the more you are going to see
your business come up, you’re just going to have to know it’s part of your marketing that is essential to
keeping the referral rate up. And the way I would measure it, incidentally is the referral rate. I don’t know if
that answers it.

Jon: Yeah. That absolutely answers the question. Print newsletter, who to send it to and what the
purpose was. That’s what I was trying to get out with the newsletter, direct mail and where it falls in the
scheme of things.

So you want to give them one more chance to ask questions here, Rich?

Rich: Yeah, there’s a number of people on the call, if you have a question hit star, star, you can go
ahead and ask the question if you’d like. Star, star will unmute you. We’ve talked today about obviously the
telephone, we’ve talked today about using the shock and awe package and the referral letter. We’ve talked
today about the internet versus radio versus television. We’ve talked about kind of the speed of
communicating with a lead. We’ve talked about why the television and radio industry is unique and different
and why they think the way they do and how to crack that code. And then we’ve talked about direct mail. The
power of a list, how to acquire a list. For those of you on the queue, Jon did an excellent review today I saw in
the queue on how to find a local mail house and why to build a relationship with them to get your list. Or a
local broker, list broker.

Then we talked about the power of a newsletter and I’m going off memory because I don’t have any notes, so
did I get everything?

Jon: You did get everything, that was excellent. So, just to kind of wrap up, since we don’t have any
questions right now, will just finish with one last question. Okay, so we’re in June. Middle of June. Next 30
days between now and the next call, what, if there’s one thing that you want to tell everybody to work on
between now and the next interview with an expert call, what would that one thing be?

Rich: So the one thing that’s going to drive everything else. One thing that is going to drive
everything else is no thy numbers. So, every month, make sure that every week, not every other week. Not
every month, every week you know your numbers. You’re meeting with your staff about your numbers. Put
your numbers on a whiteboard in your office. If you are your only staff, then you have a meeting with yourself
every week and know what your numbers are. Even if your numbers are one and one. I had one lead, I had
one appointment, I had one client. Great those are your numbers. 100% for the week. Let’s know your
numbers. Let’s get committed to your numbers, and if we’re committed to our numbers, we can start asking
intelligent questions about our business which will lead to all the other things we just talked about.

But if we don’t know our numbers, none of the other stuff that I just talked about makes sense. Is that fair?
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877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

Jon: Yeah. I think that’s an outstanding thing to work on for everyone.

Rich: And then so I would say for those of you who are new to the program, we’re looking forward to
seeing you in San Diego. If you’re in the partners club program, that’s coming up, we’re excited about that.
We’ve been busy planning that venue, we’re excited about getting out of the heat of Phoenix and going to San
Diego and that’s on August 12, 13, 14. I get those dates right Jon?

Jon: You did—13, 14, 15.

Rich: We’re getting there on the 12th, right. 13, 14, 15 is the dates of the actual event. That’s
Thursday, Friday, Saturday in August in San Diego. That’s our mastermind, partner’s club program. And so if
you are in the program, great, we can’t wait to see you. Hope you’re booked. Get your stuff booked, cause I’m
sure the deadline is coming up soon for the hotel reservation room block. If you’re not booked, if you’re not in
partner’s club and it’s something you want to consider, certainly raise your hand and talk to your senior
marketing consultant and ask them about that.

And next month in July, next month we are going to run an open mic call, am I right?

Jon: Yep. Open mic call.

Rich: So next month is truly questions. And so we’re looking for your deepest darkest burning
questions. Whether you email them to me and I’ll ask them on the call for you. Or you call in and ask the
questions. All you’ve got to do is, Richard@YourBusinessAutomated.com. Email in your questions, come on
the phone and ask your questions live. Whatever it’s going to be, we’ll get your question answered and
whatever thing you’re struggling with either at that moment, or long-term or questions about the modules or
questions about anything we’ve talked about today, bring your questions. We’ll get you the answers and as I
said it’s going to be an open mic call in July. What’s the date of that call, Jon? The 28 th right?

Jon: The call is the 28th. July 28th, same time.

Rich: No that is not the July 28th, can’t be July. You and I are meeting with—you and I are going to be
in Tennessee on the 28th.

Jon: We are.

Rich: So I’m sure it will be the 29th or the 30th. We moved it I’m sure, or we moved it to the 14 th, one
or the other. We will send out an email. I knew I saw it on the calendar this morning and then it just hit me
when we said that, that we’re going to be in a mastermind of our own. So we’ll get everybody a date for the
July call and it will be an open mic call, and you’ll know when it is, and you’ll know the number to dial into. It
will be the old number, not the new number, unless God forbid we find out that that vendor went dead. Cause
remember, vendors eventually go lame. So, today, this has been Richard James and Jon Alexander, and we’ve

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Mesa, AZ 85210
877-978-2318
www.YourPracticeMastered.com

been helping you build your practice one open kind of Q&A question from Jon and me at a time. Anything you
need to add Jon?

Jon: Nope, not at all. Thanks guys.

Rich: Alright everybody, have a great day. Talk to you again!

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