Cc

trn khng chin trn bu tri Vit Nam

Thi tit thng 8/1967 tht tt, nn KQ v HQ tip tc cc cuc khng kch
quyt lit. Phn ln n lc tp trung vo Route Package VI chng li cc ng
lin lc, c bit l2 ng xe la chy ng bc v ng ty t H ni sang TQ
v h thng vn ti t H ni n cng Hi phng.
Mig khng hot ng mnh k t thng 6, v cho n lc cc n v khng
thy c du hiu no ca chin thut mi. Nhng, tht khng may, h nhm.
Ngy 23 thng 8, 1967, mt lc lng ln gm 9 phi i 105 v 4 phi i F4
(1 chng Mig (MigCap) v 3 cng kch) tn cng ga Vinh Yn. F105 tn cng
trc, c F4 MigCap tri sau v 3 bin i F4 nm bom bay theo i hnh ch
V ngay ng sau. THi tit tt, trn my 25,000 feet (overcast).
Lc lng tn cng khng bit c 2 Mig21 xut pht t Phc Yn, bay thp
chn nh. Mig bay gn mt t (stay in the ground cluster [1]) trnh b rada
my bay M pht hin, nhng tn hiu transponder ca n b thit b QRC-248
trn mt chic EC-121 ang bay vng nhn c. CHic EC-121 thng bo v tr
ca Mig, nhng n v h tr khng c phn ng.
Khi dn ng mt t thy MIg bn sn ca i hnh nm bom, v
ngoi tm ca F4 MigCap, h ra lnh Mig vt ln 28,000 feet (kqndvn ~ 9,000m),
a Mig vt trn trn my v sn ca mt trong cc phi i nm bom, trong
khi vn khng b rada ca F4 pht hin. Mig21 tip cn lc lng, v theo lnh
ca dn ng mt t, hm xuyn trn my vi tc cc nhanh vo phi i
Ford, mt trong 3 phi i F4 nm bom bay pha sau i hnh chnh. Mig tn cng
bng tn la Atoll; Cnh bo u tin m F-4 nhn c l khi s 3 thy mt tn
la bn trng s 4, bin n thnh mt qu cu la. Cng lc , s 2 thy mt tn
la Atoll bay st bn cnhvph hu s 1.
Mig bay thot khng b tn thng (unscathed).
Nhng trn nh vn cha ht; trn khu vc mc tiu, thm nhiu Mig21 v
Mig17 tn cng vi chin thut conventional. Mt F-4 phng tn la Aim-7 vo
mt F4 khc m n nhn lm l qun ch, nhng kp tt rada (break lock)
trc khi tn la trng mc tiu. Mt F4 na b cao x bn ri. S 3 ca bin i
Ford ht du khi cha bt kp my bay tip du, khin tng s my bay b mt l 4
chic, 3trong s thuc bin i Ford. T bay ca Ford 3 c n v; t nht 3
d c nhn thy bung ra t S 1 v s 4, nhng khng ai trong cc t bay
c cu thot.
Cuc tn cng cht chc ny ca Mig21 li cng gy bi ri khi sau cc phi
cng bit uc b phn qun bo M quan st c Mig luyn tp chin thut
ny t 10 ngy trc , nhng chng ai bo li cho cc phi i. H cnlo u
hn na khi bit rng ch l khi u ca s thay i cn bn chin thut
caMig 21 KQ Bc Vit.
bn HK100 c ln ni v ci ny ri. Cuc khng chin trn khng

Triu Tin din ra rt khc lit. Ban u, M v ng minh tuyn b h c 10/1

my bay Bc TT v TQ. Sau , Lin X thnh lp mt n v c bit tham chin
trc tip, cc phi cng bt buc ni ting TT hay TQ. T l c mt ca n v
ny ln n gn 10/1. T l ny thc t cn cao hn na, v y l cc con s
c hai bn cng nhn khi Lin X gii mt ti liu. Thc t cao hnv M ch
cng nhn my bay bmt do khng chin khi my bay ri ti trn, cn nu my
bay l lt ra khi khng gian trn nh th M tnh l tai nn. Do , c s chnh
lchcon s my bay M b my bay Lin X h. khong gn 1200 n 1400 my
bay M v ng minh mt, LinX my vi chc ci. Sau chin tranh, c nhng
phi cng h 24 chic, c nhng n v m hu ht phi cng tr thnh ace. Trc
y, khi ti liu mt v t l thng khng khip ca pha Lin X cha gii mt,
ngi ta cng rt khn ngoan khi ni v khng chin chin tranh ny, nhng
box chng ta khng phi ai cng c trnh vn ha nh tc gi, do Lin X va
ra khi chin tranh, phi cng c trnh cao rt nhiu, tng ch huy khng qun
cng gii, khng th c trn khng chin bi nh vy. T l thng cao ca Lin X
c M v ng minh cho l: 1, Lin X dng my bay tim kch nh my bay
nm bom. 2, Lin X thnh lp mt n v nhiu phi cng anh hng giu kinh
nghim chin u. Tuy thiu ti liu v cng Lin X gi tuyt mt trn ny, trnh
bn xu s dng tuyn truyn ww3, nhng nhiu phi cng M lc h
chin u vi phi cng Nga, do cc phi cng Nga khng tho tin nc ngoi v
ni bng ting m . Nh vy, box cng ni n v ti liu nc ngoi cng
nhiu, vic F-86 ca M h Mig-15 phn ln do phi cng Nga li vi t l tiu
dit 10:1 l vic lm c , r tin. Thc ty l chin tranh thng li huy hong
nht ca khng qun Soviet. Cng do qu cay c v tht bi ny, nhng ti liu
mang nng tnh qung co khng h ngng mn bi bc bp mo n.
Ti liu ny d do chnh ngi Ty phng vit nhng h li cao khng
qun vit nam . Ni chnh xc l cao phi cng v ch huy VN. H cho rng
Khng qun VN b t to, v kh lc hu ca Nga . Nhng vn tm c cch
nh v h c qun i ng hn, hin i hn v c hun luyn k . Ti
liu nh vy ti sao khng ng ? nu bo v kh Nga l v ch th , l i trc
thi i , l nhcao ca k thut qun s . vy ngi vn ta cg ti gii no? xi
tt ng nhin l thng ti d dng lm thi . Nhng thc t l VN ta
c trang b v kh km nhng vn thng . y l yu t con ngi. i Tng
V Nguyn Gip c ni : V kh c hin i cng ch l c my , quan trngl
ngi s dng n . Sch ni ln tnh Anh Hng ca ngi VN th nn dch . Ti
khng hiu ti sao c qu nhiu ngi sn lng lm mi th bo v danh d
ti cao ca v kh Nga v qun i Nga . Ti sao khng dng by nhiu tm
huyt ca ngi s Anh hng ca dn tc VN ta ? Ti ni cu t y lng . Ngy
xa ti lun ngh mi v kh c th mnh v yu ring ca n . khng c v kh
no l v ch . Ti thch mt s c im ca v kh Nga . Nhng t ngy thy
y vi ngi xem n nh thng v nm xy ra chia r nghim trng trong
room ti tht s khng mun nhc n ngay c ci tn v kh Nga na. Thi i
nay khc xa , thng tin ton cu . ngi ngu cng c c rt nhiu v bit
rt nhiu . V nc Nga thn yu m ca ngi thi qu ch em n kt qu ngc

, lm ngi ta nhn nc Nga nh mt c my tuyn truyn m thi .

Bc khng qun c dch di, vic tath ta c lm thi. Cc bc trn ny ci
nhau lm g, c g ch tranh lun thi, h h, m tranh lun phi c lun c lm
ngi khc tm phc khu phc ch khng phi chi bi linh tinh. Cc bc cng
ng phn bit trong nc hay ngoi nc, kiu g ch l ngi VN v u
hng n1 mc ch cui cng l v VN thi. Vi kin, box ngy cng
pht
H h cng nhn bn Ph ng ni ng. Mnh cng c i cht cm tnh vi
nc Nga v ln ln hon ton trong mi trng ny m. Ngay c b chi lp
ghp nh mnh cng phn ln l xe tng tu b ca Nga ch cvi ci l ca M
, Php. Nhng cng c tip cn nhiu vi thng tin ton cu u c mnh cng
sng ra nhiu. V t khi vo y chng kin nhng pht
ngn khng bit ngng mm ca mt s ngi lm mnh cng ngy cng
mt cm tnh vi nc Nga ni chung v v kh Nga ni ring. Ngi ta gi y l
p ph ngc, cng tuyn truyn lm th cng b ght.
Trong 1 ln lt qua 1 forum nc ngoi ti F-16 vs Mig29 cu chuyn dn
n A2A Triu Tin, ti thy 2 phe Pro Nga v Pro M ci nhau nh m bm
chng i n u. Ti thy 2 phe u c l ca n. Phe Nga ni dit c ngn my
bay, qu ngv Mig ca Nga n gp thng no l n p thng bt k l F-86
hay th g khc. Triu Tin M vLHQ s dng rt nhiu B26, B-29, A-1H, F-8
oanh tc vo v tr ca BTT. WW2, B-29 th hu nh Zero khng s vo n
c nhng 6,7 nm sau th l chuyn qu d vi Mig-15. V pha M n thun ch
l A2A gia F vMignn s lg kill t hn. T l Kill/Loss c 2 phe a ra chc chn
l phi bigmouth thi thi no ch th. Pilot Nga thay th my ch nng dn
China, Triu Tin li my bay th tnh hnh phi khc hn trc ch, M c 1 i
th xng tm hn sc. Pilot M c th b Pilot Nga, Tu , TT bn ri th VN
mnh cng lm c c th cn hn na. Pilot Nga cng vy thi, khi b mt tham
chin Trung ng cng tng b Israel bn ri ngay 5 ci sau lng l rt
qun. Ni chung l con ngi c hayc d ch c phi siu nhn thn thnh g
u m nh nhau l thng. B qua chuyn ny i khng th n l ch , Bn
KQNDVN tip tc nh cho anh em thng thc.
MIG21 c mt ci c bit m sau ny F16 ca M ra i cng rt ch n.
Mnh c nhn xt chung th ny: c Nga, M v Ty u u c v kh tt!!!
thi i by gi ai c g tt th bn kia bt trc. Khng nh nhng nm 60-70
mi bn c gng theo ng ring ca minh. Vn d ch yu l ai c nhiu tin!
Nga khng mnh v kinh t nn ch nhng g quan trng nht mi lm bng hoc
vt bn M vTy u(nu c kh nng!!!)
Mnh tuy khng h bit Nga, xong c mt s cm tnh vi v kh ca Nga v
cch gii quyt vn . Bn thn ngi c thng t cao t i, song cng rt
phc Nga v chuyn ny. Nu c thnh vin no l k s thit k c c th
ng vi mnh v chuyn ny.

ng nh bn ni, ngi c gn y u t qua Nga rt nhiu(ch yu l

t vn phng nghin cu).Ngay ng th tng c trong bi pht biu gii thiu
my bay Airbus A380 cng mong mun Chu u hp tc k thut hn na, nht
l vi Nga.
Tuy nhin, v tp tnh lu i (c l do thiu tin) ngi c cng cnhn xt
Cng ngh Nga nn tn l gii quyt vn ch khng phi nh chng ta ( Ty
u, M) Cng ngh l hong thin hn. Do vy m ta cng thy t my bay,
tu, ci g Nga cng c, nhng nu chp hnh so snh vi u, M th khng c
tnh thm m, khng c t duy hon thin. Ti c coi 1chng trnh v tu khng
gian Nga, phng vin lm ctrnh rt ngc nhin, ng ta thy cc ky s gia c cc
mi ni bn trong tn la bng dy km( iu khng tng Chu u). v ng ta
pht biu: Nh vy m ngi Nga ln v tr u tin, trong khi chng ta t
ra 1 lot tiu chun cho an ton k thut m vn cha c phi thuyn ring (EADS)
, sao li ct topic ci nhau i. Em hi ny bn qu, thnh thong mi vo nt
c, vo ri ch thy ch chi u..
Khng chin qu tm nhn: chin tranh bo v bu tri min bc l chin tranh
u tien s dng th ny. Tt c u mi, cha th nghim, bt ng.
Chng ta nhiu ln ni v chin tranh trn khng, Min Bc.
Trong chuyn ny th bc chiangshan ng gop rt nhiu cng. Khng hiu c
phong chc cho bc ng nhiu cng nht cho chuyn ny c khng. Nhng
em c ring, l Bolo. Trc y, em r mi ngi tham gia tm hiu,
nhng t ngi hng ng qua, ri li vo dp em bn, nn qun mt. Em khng
c nhiu thng tin, nn lm theo kiu ny, em v cc bc cng post ba bi, song
song trong lc , em s hi c th nhng chi tit cn quan tm, c th mi
khng long v c nhiu thng tin m thng tin li c kim li chnh xc. Hi
forum cha sp t trc, em nh ko di cai hk100 2. Nhng cha lm c
nhiu bt th mng sp, ri qun mt. By gi d li cc ng ang lm gi,
edit li, post tm cho ph cng g hi .
Chng ta c cn tm hiu qu chi tit v vic ny khng???
Ti sao sch v nc ngoi ni v chin tranh ny nhiu n vy.
C th gii thch iu r rng qua v d, cu Hm Rng ng vngv
saov ti sao sau n trng n. Chin tranh ny c quan tm mt cch c
bit, nn d nhin, nhiu k li dng vic k v chin tranh ny nhi nht
nhng ring thng qua vic xuyn tc. Nhngm, bn cht chin tranh ny vn
l cuc chin c bit c ch . Chng ta c khi ch quan tm n n nh l
quan tm n nhng chin cng hin hch ca cha anh, cn nugi nc ngoi
v nhng ngi c trch nhim ca ta, li coi y l chin tranh c ngha c
bit v khoa hc qun s. N l cuc chin tranh m cc my bay thot khi
dogflight, hay l chin tranh cch mng ca k thut khng chin.
Theo em: chng ta cng nh ngi nc ngoi, nn tm hiu k, rt k v

chin tranh ny. Ngi nc ngoi ngoi vic xut bn rt nhiu sch k v chin
tranh ny v nhiu mc ch khc nhau, xuyn tc hay tn vinh, trung thc bay ba
t, nhng tt c nhng iu mang tnh tnh cm khng th t c thi
nghin cu cng phu, khoa hc. Nhng trn nh ca chin tranh ny l nhng
trn nh u tin s dng phng php khng chin qu tm nhn, chin tranh
ny xy dng nn nhng chin thut khng chin mi, t nhng c n c
bn n nhng chin lc khng l. Nhng trn khng chin dng tn la c
t lu, c th nghim t ww2 n nhng trn chin quyt lit trn eo bin i
Loan. Nhng ch Bc Vit Nam, tn la mi tht s c hai bn xy dng
chin thut s dng. Cng vi chin thut l chin lc mi hon ton c xy
dng, kt qu ca vic nghin cu th nghim phng php khng chin cn
nh hng ln n c cu i hnh v cu to tng chic my bay chin u.
Ngay trong chin tranh, nhng my bay c ci tin khn cp bt nhng l
hng khi thit k, sau chin tranh, F-14, F-15 M c ch to t nhng kinh
nghim khng chin. C cu mt s lng ln my bay tim kch (interceptor) c
tm ngn v r nh hi ww2 c Lin X thay th bi c cu s lng nh hn
ca nhng my bay t hn: my bay a nng fighter.
Ti sao chin tranh trn khng ny li tr thnh mt cuc cch mng ln trong
lch s khng chin ngn ngi: thi th. Chng phi ngi Vit Nam hay M tm
cch tn vinh chin tranh y, m chnh khi chin tranh y din ra, cc my tnh ra
i, pht trin vi tc kinh khng, v ng dng vo my bay. Nhngkh ti mi
i hi nhng chin thut mi rri to ra y nhng bt ng, v nhng phi cng
hai bn em tnh mng mnh ra xy dng nn phng php khng chin
mi, lm sch gio khoa cho cho khng qun th gii ngy nay. Mt v d v
nhng thay i ca iu kin chin u c bn nht, ch thiu t cht lng trc
tnh ton, l mt trong nhng trn nh u tin. Trc y, chin tranh TT hay
WW2 chng hn, vic my bay sn mi tun tiu l cn thit v rt li, rnh bt
cc my bay nm bom nng n. Nhng ngy nay, c ta v ch u c radar
mnh. chc nhngmy bay cnh gii t rt xa. K thut hin i cho php
chng pht hin ra ta k c mt s trng hp radar ca chng khng vi ti,
2my bay ca ta mt khi ang i tun m khng r ti sao.
Chng ta khng c cc phi cng ca mnh v i phng tr thnh
nhng ngi thc hin cuc cch mng khng chin, cng khng th thc hin
c iu nu mun, v chng ta khng ch ng c kh ti. Nhng khng
qun ca chng ta tht anh hng. Va thnh lp, rt t v kh, qu t my bay, li
va nh va chng kin nhng bt ng k thut mi. Th m chng ta cng
ngi M vit nn nhng trang sch kinh in v k thut khng chin.
Em cng cc bc nhn li qua lch s khng chin ngn ngi, hiu s phn
th no bt buc nhng phi cng, dn ng, ch huy ca chng ta, mt t
nc cha h sn xut ra chic my bay no, li phi thc hin cuc cch mng
khng chin. Thi cuc no lm h tr thnh nhng chin binh tin phong,
nhng trn nh no lm nhng phi cngtav M c m t chi tit trong
nhng cun sch gio khoa khng chin. Ngy nay, khng ai nghi ng trnh

ca phi cng ta ngy y, h tr thanh nhng mu mc kinh in. Ngay t thi

trc 1975, Ngy Si Gn cng phi vit v phi cng min Bc vi nhng li l
knh trng nht n cc phi cng ace M cng phi n s. Phi cng M v cc
nh vit lch hay ch huy M th khi ni, h khm phc trong lng v bn ngoi
dng nhng li n phc tn vinh nht khi ni v i phng. Ngoi khng qun
cc nc phi nghin cu k v nghim tc cc trn nh ca ta v ngi M
ngy y th cc nh vn v ngi c th gii cng quan tm c bit n cc
trn khng chin ny. , m em lan man ri, nhng c l em lan man v khng
th no tm c cch ni no th hin c tm quan trng ca chin tranh trn
khng ny vi k thut v chin thut khng qun th gii hin i.
Nhng trn chin anh hng v nhng chin thut kinh in tt nhin khng
th xy dng bng tinh thn mu hng hay quyt tm my en. Nl cuc u tr
dai dngv khc lit. Ci gi phi tr cho cc chin thut ngy nay c khng
qun th gii ly lm sch gio khoa t v au thng, Phm Tun khi ct
cnh ch cn hn chc my bay trc chin, nhiu phi cng k li cm gic
bun b phi nhn ging ng ng i trng vng.
Chin tranh th gii2 kt thc vi hai trng phi khng chin. l M-Nht
v X-c. Nu nh Thi bnh dng, nhng tu sn bay, hm i ln, my
bay nm bom ng di v nhng trn nm bom khng khipl yu t quyt nh
th chu u li khc. Sau chin tranh Ty Ban Nha, my bay tim kch khng
nh v tr. WW2, loi my bay ny v nhng trn khng chin tr thnh yu t
quyt nh trn bu tri. Khng qun chu u ch yu thc hin cc nhim v
trn mt trn vi khong cch n cn c 1-2-3 trm km. Cc sn bay d chin
lm vi di chuyn tin lui theo mt trn. Khc vi my bay nm bom, cc my bay
khng chin c gi r, nh, nh. Nhng chng c tc , lc y mnh. Phngh
php chin u c bn l ogflight: cc my bay lm xic tm cch bm ui
nhau v n sng h mc tiu pha trc. cc mc tiu hu nh ch b h trong
gc bn hp, tm lc ch vi trm met hiu qu. n gia ww2, cc my bay
khng chin tch ra thnh loi ring, khng nh cc my bay nm bom tin
tuyn Pe, cc my bay ng chn IAK c thit k chuyn khng chin, chng
lm ch bu tri cc my bay khc tn cng mt t, nh chuyn nghip nh
th cc interceptor(tim kch, nh chn) c tc v linh hot rt cao v s
lng ln. n cui ww2, nhng my bay khng chin cng chuyn nghip hn,
thm ch ngi c cn thit k nhng tn la c ngi li, tm rt ngn, thi
gian hot ng ng c v tm ch vi pht v 30km. Nhng my bay tim kch
nh chn tht s m c thit k l nhng my bay dng 1 ng c turbine.
Bn thit k TA-183 c thnh cng v i, tr thnh thy t ca nhng MIG ni
ting. TA-183 l mt bn thit k my bay 1 ng c turbine, cnh xui sau, ui
treo cao t cn bng, ti rt nh v khng d nh mang bom. N c tc ti a
khong 700km/h hoc 900km/h v tm ti a ch vi trm km. Tc ti a ca
n khng bao gi c s chnh xc, v my bay cha tht s c ch to. N d
nh s dng mt ng c mi, c tc vng quay cao v s tng nn thp, y
l cu hnh ng c rt n gin, r tin, thch hp vi nhiu tc khc nhau,

nh. Ngy nay, chng ch c trang b cho tn la v tui th thp v nhiu trc
trc, nhng ngy , ngi ta d nh rng interceptor l loi my bay r v
cthng vong ln. Cc bc c th c topic ca bc dangngoc v phi cng Lin
X v c hi . Phn ln cc phi cng tim kch mt cng my bay sau vi
thng tham chin, h phi chin u lin tc vi cng cao, yl bi thi rt
khc nghit v hiu qa, nhng ngi cn li th li s sng rt dai, h tr thnh
cc ace khng khip: tip tc kim tra lp hc tr mi bng mng sng. H xy
dng nn chin thut chin u3 chiu thay cho chin thut i hnh nhiu tng
chin u ngang. H xy dng nn c cu khng qun c trng l s lng
khng l my bay tim kch. ng c ca TA-183 khng gi c ch to,
khong 13 mu th dng ng c Juno 004 c Lin X thu li trc khi
chng trnh thit k hon tt. Nhng ngi thc hin chng trnh tip tc cng
vic Lin X. Cc my bay phn lc IAK sau khi tham gia cuc trnh din cng
MIG hon thnh vai tr lch s, nhng ch cho MIG-15, t nm 1947 tr
thnh my bay tim kch ch lc Lin X. MIG-15 l bn m rng ca TA-183
dng ng c RR N5, nng hn, bay nhanh hn, v kh tt hn. Khng ch Lin
X, MIG-15 cn c ci tin v ch to th Thy In v Argentina. MIG15
c vin tr vi s lng rt nh, vi chc chic cho TQ v TT trc khi chin
tranh n ra vi thng. Sau MIG-15, cu hnh mt ng c v hai ng c cng
c d tuyn thnh MIG17, cu hnh mt ng c c chn. Do chm
pht trin ng c thch hp, cu hnh MIG-17 hai ng c c thit k mun
mn v tr thnh MIG-19. MIG-21 v F8, F-4 ra i gn nhau, khong cui thp
nin 1950. n y, cc my bay khng chin nh MIG-21 c tc ti a M2.
Vic pht trin MIG-21 rt cng phu, c th coi nh l cuc th nghim Lin X
cu hnh cnh tam gic, ngi ta v cng quyt tm v n lc tm mt thit k
my bay nh, r nhng c kh nng khng chin mnh. Mt trong nhng mu
th thnh cng nht ca cuc thi hoa hu MIG-21 l chic my bay sau tr thnh
F-16 M vi thay thui c trng t F-4. Mu th ny t tc ti M2,6
linh hot v mnh m, n khng c chn v gi c, nhng nguyn nhn quan
trng nht l in t hi khng cho php s dng bo kh trc(yu cu n
nh t ng thay cho my bay t cn bng), loi tin F-16 ny ch c 2
chic(Ye-8).
Vng, nu khng c in t th cc cuc khng chin trn bu tri min Bc
khng tr thnh cc trn khng chin kinh in, cc phi cng ta v M khng phi
lm nhng lnh tin phong v nhng chin thut ca h khng tr thnh gio
khoa mu mc.
Chin tranh WW2 ra rt nhiu th, my tnh cng th. Ngi ta ni
nhiu v nhng chic my tnh trc , nhng ch trong WW2 my tnh mi tr
thnh s tht. Nhng cha phi l v kh khng chin, v my tnh ww2 to nh
nhng ta nh, khng th cht ln my bay. , ci ny th cng nm MIG-15,
chic n bn dn ra i. Tt c mi th u to ln ra, nhng chic n ny th
cng ngy cng nh li. C phi ng tri nh ci sy ca cc phi cng Vit
Nam sau ny khng. n bn dn v my bay tim kch. Thit bin t thng

minh v tc siu m. S linh hot v v kh chnh xc. Vng, c l tht s c

nh mnh. Nm 1947, nc VN ang gai on gay go nht ca cuc khng
chin chng Php. Cm bom ba cng v gy tm vng, c ngi no x s lc
hu xa lc ni chn tri y bit rng, u trn qu t ny, hai ni rt xa
nhau, ngi ta v tay, reo h hay chc mng hai thnh qu k thut mi m20
nm sau c nhng chin s th nghim. Khng, em cam oan vi cc bc l,
khng mt ai trn th gii ny nm 1947 ngh rng, nhng ch b chn t mt
tot 20 nm sau s cng i th xy dng v th nghim cuc cch mng trong
khng chin: chin u qu tm nhn. Hai yu t quan trng nht c ra nm
1947 nh mnh y.
Vng, tt c 20 nm sau u mi, bt ng, u phi th nghim. n bn dn
sinh ra radar, tn la, lin lc, my hi. Bn dn c vai tr quan trng, n li c
thuc tnh l t nm 1947 n nay, n b i rt nhanh. V n b i, nng lc ca
thit bin t mi ngy mt mnh. V in t mnh, v kh mi ngy mt khc v
lun lun phi th nghim. Cc phi cng ta v M c vinh d c nh mnh
th nghim v tm ra cch s dng n.
Radar th c s dng t u ww2. Tn la i khng c t WW2. Nc
c ch ra nhng SAM u tin vi phn ng lc ca V2. H thng phng
khng ny s dng radar c tr gip bi loi my tnh dng v tn la c iu
khin chng li khng qun trong mi thi tit. AAM cng c c ch to ww2,
n c ng c nhin liu lng, iu khin bng dy dn v kch n bng ngi n
m thanh. Enzian l AAM u d hng ngoi th nghim, khng thnh cng. Hai
th ny, do my tnh rt ti (X4 AAM khng c hin t) nn cha th chin u
tht
s. Nhng r rng, my bay khng cn t do vi mt t na khi bay trn tm
pho phng khng, vn rt km chnh xc. Mt thit b c ngi c pht
trinvp dng, ti quan trng l con quay hi chuyn.
20 nm sau chin tranh ww2, cc nh k thut tm mi cch thot khi
dogflight. C Lin X v M u tm n phng php chin u c bn ngy
nay: mc tiu c radar pht hin, theo di, tn la c iu khin t my bay
m hay u n t ng. Bc vo chin tranh ph hoi min Bc, my tnh vn
cn rt yu, cha thiu khin u n t ng hon ton. Ngi ta chn
mt cu hnh khng chin: my bay c hai ch ngi. Ngoi phi cng, gunner s l
ngi li tn la qua tn hiu radio. yl phng php khng chin s dng tn
la tm xa ngy nay l phng php khng chin ch lc ca F-22. Nhng ngy
, cc my tnh rt ti nen khng th t ng ha u n hon ton c.
Nguyn nhn trc tip l cc radar hu nh khng c kh nng pht hin v theo
di (lock) mc tiu t ng, chng truyn tn hiu cho my tnh nhn dng mc
tiu hin i nht lc l cp mt ca phi cng hay gunner, qua thit b converter
tn hiu cng hin i cc k l mn hunh quang ca radar. ( Cc bc c lch
s khng chin, , ci ny c khi bc Chiangshan nh r v bc cth k thm
cho em khng, mt v d quan trng nh th mem qun ht c th ri, trong mt

trn nh rt thun li, mt phi cng ca chng ta trn MIG-17 b mt tn hiu

radar ngm bn trong tm cc gn, 1 hoc vi km, v radar dng my tnh dng
khng phn bit c hai my bay mc tiu bay gn nhau. May sao, ng lp
cng sut sc mt lc sau (chi hai lot hai ch) v mc tiu.bt n. Nhng
t na ng mt mng m ch c g v sut na.hc vo ch. Tt c v kh
nng theo di phn bit pht hin mc tiu qu ti).
Nh vy, phng php khng chin tm xa lc y vn rt th cng. C mt
iu l qun ta khng c vin tr phng php ny. Na sau thp k 60, Lin
X c loi my bay khng chin tm xa nh trn ln nht th gii lc (TU-28
nm 1961), tn la nngvxa nht, tm my bay cngxa nht. Nhng v nhiu
nguyn nhn, cc phi cng ta khng c s dng loi my bay khng chin tm
xa no.
Ngi ta tm mi cch t ng ha vic ngm bn. Tm gn to nhiu thun
li hn cho my tnh in t. thi qua bi chin u mi thi tit, ccnh k
thut th nghim nhiu loi tn la t bm mc tiu. Lin X sn xut v trang
b tn la n chiu, c coi l tn la tm ngn quan trng nht ca Lin X
trong nhng nm 1950. Ngi c ra nh u d hng ngoi u tin, tn
la Enzian. Ban u, u d hng ngoi l mt gng quay, qut nh ln mt
sensor c nht. Sau ny, cng vi vic n bn dn nhi, s lng im d
tng ln. Vic thiu nng lc thit bin t c b sung bi nhiu pht minh c
hc th v, nh cc bnh xe n nh ui tn la AIM9, nhng cn bng tn
la, con quay hi chuyn vnl yu t quan trng nht. Mt vic quan trng vi
cuc khng chin ca khng qun ta, ci quan trng nht vi khng chin tm
ngn xy n 28-10 nm 1958. Lc ny c mt xung t trn khng eo bin i
Loan, khng qun TQ yu th thua au. (Bn Tu rt nhiu tim lc v hay khoe
m, nhng bao gi khng chin cng thua au, ngay c sau ny Tu v TT sang
ta khng chin cng qun ta, cng d hi th phi, bc chiangshan c th cho em
r hn v vic bn ny tham chin trc tip v kt qu ca chng c khng).
Tu bi Loan h bng mt th tn la l, mnh, xa, chnh xc hn sng my
nhiu. Mt vi tn la bn trt ri xung bin, lin c tm li bng mi cch
v ch n Moscow. Nhng qu tn la AIM-9 khng n ny gy n tng mnh
vi cc nh k thut Soviet. Th l, AAM ch lc trong chng chin tranh ph
hoi min Bc Atoll ra i, tn la l pht trin tip theo ca Enzian c b d
trong ww2, chng trnh pht trin hp tc vi cc nh khoa hc c . N nhanh
chng thay th tn la n chiu v tr thnh tn la tm ngn ch lc. Ngy ,
cctn la ny cn c u d rt yu nn ch c th bn c gc hp v tm
ngn. Trong ln tranh ci trc vui ca AIM-9, bc c X c a mt trang,
ni ngi ta khng bit ti sao AIM li c copy, ri phng on bng nhng
cu chuyn tnh bo hp dn. y l thng tin v vic copy ny bc c x .
Nh vy, c m v cc cuc khng chin in t c ngi c t ra t
trong ww2. H khng ch c khng, m h thit k v thc hin nhng v kh
khng chin ch yu, ph v cho cuc khng chin in t qu tm nhn, iu
kin in t hi khng cho h hon thnh. Chin tranh Triu Tin vn l

trn hn chin dogflight hon ton. Cc cuc khng chin trn eo bin i Loan,
qun i Quc yu hn nhiu qun M, thng li ln vi nhng v kh ti tn k
l. Tc pht trin ca k thut in t nhanh chng.v.v.v Nhng iu , cho
thy linh cm rng rng qun ta s phi bt u chin tranh bo v bu tri min
Bc trong nhng iu kin rt l, rt kh khn, nhng trn khng chin theo mt
kiu cha din ra bao gi: k thut khng chin qu tm nhn.
MIG-19 t c Lin X ch to nhng li c cc nc khc sn xut rt
nhiu. c bit l TQ, nh do bt ng t 1960, TQ khng c chuyn giao
y cng ngh, my bay c ng c yu hn nhiu so vi MIG-19 nguyn
bn, nc sng rt mnh. Nhng khi n ra i th phng php khng chin
bng tn la v radar hnh thnh. Chic MIG-19 v anh em sinh i ca n
MIG-17 l MIG cui cng s dng phng php bn sng lm v kh ch lc.
Pha bn M, F-8 cng vy. Ban u c thit k bn sng, ri phi ci tin
dng tn la. Ta cng c nh ci tin MIG-17 lp tn la, nhng khng
thnh cng. MIG-17 c th mnh c bit l vng ln hp. Tht ra, my bay
tim kch vn c th ln hp, v MIG-17 cn c th ln hp hn do n l
c. MIG 15, 17,19 l th h my bay khng chin phn lc u tin ca Lin X.
MIG-21 l my bay khng chin u tin s dng tn la l v kh ch yu. My
bay ny s dng tn la tm ngn, mt cch khng chin hn dogflight mt t
to. Nhng tha k truyn thng my bay tim kch, n c ng c rt khe so
vi khi lng. Th mnh c bit cu my bay ny l khng chin theo chiu
thng ng, cch khng chin ca chim sn ca. Lc lng khng chin M mnh
nht l my bay a nng F-4. M khng dng cch xy dng lc lng khng
qun ging Lin X v c. LXv c thit k nhng loi my bay chuyn
nghip cho mt nhim v, nh h c i my bay r v c th c s lng ln.
M ch to mt mu my bay a nng, ri t mu , h lm ra nhiu loi con
cho tng nhim v. iu lm cho cc my bay t , nhng li ch cn duy tr
mt s lng nh my bay chin u trong bin ch. Mt thay i ln vi c cu
khng qun Lin X cng nh thit k my bay khng chin M sau chin tranh.
LX th thit k my bay a nng nh M, s dng ng ca nng turbofan
bypas nh cc loi SU thay cho hng vn MIG nh MIG-15,17,21. Cn M th
ch trng n khng chin tm ngn v ch to F-14, F-15.
Th l, bc vo chin tranh chng ph hoi min Bc, chng ta tha k cc
ng anh k thut khng chin. l lc lng my bay tim kch. yl nhng
my bay rt linh hot, nh r. Chng c thit k bo v bu tri tin tuyn,
tm gn. Nhng im yu ca chng c b li bng s lng rt ln. iu
cui cng th ta khng c. Cuc th nghim phng php khng chin bng
thit bin t din ra vi mt lc lng rt chnh lch. Kh hiu l my bay
c thit k s dng s lng mi li c thc t chin u s lng t.
V lch s khng chin trn bu tri bc Vit. C nhiu giai on. n nn
1967, c th chia ra hai giai on.
1: khng qun nhn dn Vit Nam xut hin. Khng qun nhn dn chin

u nhng trn u tin. Lm i phng kinh hong bng mt lc lng rt

chnh lch. Bn thn chng ta chng gp rt nhiu bt ng. Tnh ch quan xut
hin ngay sau trn nh u tin, gy thng vong. Giai on ny khng nh
phng php ch lc ca khng qun ta: s dng u th dn ng mt t. M
yu th hn v xa hu phng, nhng h c nhngmy bay cnh gii mnh.
M cng nh ta, u gp phi kh khn v kinh nghim chin u. Cc v kh
mi lm chin tranh trn khng hon ton khc vi nhng chin tranh trc y.
V c bn, cng u tr, ta cng yu th do lc lng chnh lc ny l MIG-17,
MIG-19 qu lc hu.
2: chin dch Bolo, hay top gun, Hi qun M tm c cch i ph, y l
cuc u tr ghay gt. y c l l giai on nhiu th v nht. Cng ngy, ta cng
yu th do s dng MIG-17 lc hu. Nhng nhng ln u tin dng MIG-21 li
khng thnh cng, n ni nhiu kinlo s,
mun quay li MIG-17 v MIG-19. Bn cht u giai on ny (1967). M tn
dng u th F-4 l tm bay xa, thi gian bay lu, phc kch vng radar ta kh
theo di c hay b mt bm st sn bay, hay lng vng xa my bay F-105
nm bom.
Sau nm 1967, c th chia ra hai giai on
1: Phi cng Phm Thanh Ngn tm ra phng php chin u ging nh chim
sn ca, bng trn nh F-102, MIG-21 thng trong trn u tr tm cch nh
mi hiu qu. Phi cng ny l hun luyn vin ca nhiu phi cng ni ting nh
Cc, anh bn ri nhiu loi my bay nht:->phi cng th nghim chin thut-th
nghim trong chin u. yl phng php chin u tn dng trit hai im
ni tri ca MIG-21. im th nht l dn ng, im th hai l khng chin
chiu thng ng. MIG-21 c kh nng i hng rt mnh, tc leo cao tt.
Phi cng Phm Thanh Ngn l phi cng c trnh khng chin xut sc, ngi
hng dn ca nhiu phi cng u t, trong c Cc. Em khng hiu ai l ngi
xut phng n tn cng ny. i khi, mt t bay 2ngi, tn dng dn
ng bay thp. Gn n mc tiu MIG vt ln cao. Tip theo, MIG li t trn
cao b xung t pha sau mc tiu, bn, v. Trong khi mt MIG bn th mt MIG
cnh gii. My bay cnh gii t xa ca M hng Thi Lan ch quan st r khi
mc tiu cao 2-6km. Do , thi gian MIG nm trong vng n quan st c
rt ngn, kh pht hin. Trn nh u tin cng th v. Phi cng Phm Thanh
Ngn khi chun b tn cng th thy mc tiu rt ging MIG, anh dng tn cng
bt my hi, khi c kt qu l ch th ch cn cch mc tiu hn 1km. Ha ra y
l chic F102 cnh tam gic. Phng php ny chm dt mt thi gian di yu
th ca ta, lm cc phi cng rt phn khi. Phm Thanh Nga c v g nh mt
phi cng th nghim phng php nh mi, do , anh bn ri nhiu loi my
bay nht. Giai on ny c trng l vic s dng MIG 21. Qun ta c mt
chin thut u tin, bbt u lm ch phng php khng chin bng tn la
ca my bay tc cao.
C mt iu kh hiu em cha bit l: ti sao ta bit c mt vi c tnh k

thut ca my bay cnh gii t xa M.

2: giai on M tn cng t trc khi bi trn. Va xem xong trn i truyn
hnh, cc bc c th thy M b sc p mnh m rt qun. Trc y M dng
B-52 quy m ln, nhng ma h 1972 mi l trn B-52 ln nht, 420.000 tn
bom. Trn bom ny c hiu qu r rt, buc ta rt qun. Sau , l 12 ngy m.
MIG rt t xut hin, nhng l nhng trn thng rt mnh, nh 2 trn bn ri B52. Hu nh chin thut ging nh trn nh trn ca Phn Thanh Ngn. Ln
ny, nh laser mi xut hin v thit bin t mi. M c s dng nhng
v kh tm xa, v kh c iu khin thay cho ng tc b nho vo gn pho
phng khng bo v mc tiu. My bay chin thut M thc hin c mt s
nhim v trc y rt kh. Cu hm Rng, Long Bin sp. Trang b ca ta cng
mnh ln, nhng do nhng bin ng chnh tr, vin tr cho ta chm tr. B li, ta
c nhiu kinh nghim v t chc ch huy tt hn phng khng khng qun.
Trong box, c mt ng link n mt tiu thut v giai on 1 kh k. Em
xin bt u vic tm hiu bng mt vi thng tin gian on hai, bt u t u
nm 1967. y l giai on M tm c phng php khng chin tn dng th
mnh ca F-4. F-4 c thit k kiu M, tc l my bay a nng. C mt vi
loi F-4 khc nhau khng chin hay tn cng mt t. N c b ui kiu tn
la c trung cho h nh F thch hp vi bay ng di, ng cu vit, c thi
gian chin u di v tm xa. My bay mang tn la iu khin th cng qua
radar nh trn. F-4 khi ln vng hep mt tc v hon ton khng c cc
nh thit k ch ti khng chin tm ngn. Sosnh n vi cc my bay khng
chin hin i lc cng ging nh F-22 by gi.
Chin dchbolol n lc u tin ca M tm cch khng chin mi thch hp
vi v kh mi. Nm 1966. S dng li th l dn ng mt t, nh trn sn
nh, cc MIG gy kh khn ln cho khng qun M. Vi th mnh p o c v
cht lng my bay, khng qun M b khng qun ta gy cho nhng thit hi
ng k. Ngy nay, chng ta bit c rng ngy chng t
ch c vi chc chic my bay i c. Chin dch bt u t u nm 1967.
Miu t chin dch qua tranh v. Robin Olds, ngi thit k chin thut ny. phi
cng giu kinh nghim t ww2 vi 16 trn thng.
ch th (Antagonists) Trang 10 -13
Lc lng oanh kch chnh ca KQ M min Bc Vit nam trong chin dch
Sm Rn l F105 Thn sm. F105 B ban u c thit k l my bay nm bom
nguyn t chin thut tm xa, bay thp dng Chu u. N c cnh b bay
nhanh v khoang mang bom ht nhn. F105 D vi hnh dng gn nh ging ht
c pht trin lm my bay nm bom hot ng trong mi iu kin thi tit, vi
thng du v tr khoang cha bom.
F105 gp vn ln v bo tr, nhng c gii quyt trc chin dch.
a s F105 model c mt phi cng, nhng cng c F105F 2 phi cng dng cho
cc s mnh c bit.

F105 l loi my bay nhanh nht th gii tm thp, v cho d c thit k

chuyn bit cho nm bom, trong chin dch Sm rn (Rolling Thunder), F105 kch
chin vi Mig nhiu hn so vi ton b cc my bay khc cng li.
F105 mang khu ho dim sn M-61 (20mm -Vulcan), vi tc bn 6,000
vin /pht, v khi s dng nh tim kch (t khi thi), c th mang 4tn la tm
nhit Aim-9 sidewinder treo hai gi p. Gi p ny gy ra nhiu sc cn,
vlm gim khi lng bom n mang theo, nn t khi F105 mang Aim9 trong cc
phi v nm bom. V cnh nh nn cung cp rt t lc nng cho F105 khi ngot, n
ni tingv km c ng, nhng bt chp kh nng ln km, khu cannon v
tc cao sau khi vt bom khin cho chic F105 c iu khin tt rt hu
dng trong cc cuc khng chin trng li Mig17.
Mt na cc n v air-to-air ca Hi qun M trang b F8 mt gh, mt my
bay tim kch khng bit tho hip (uncompromising air superiority fighter). Nhanh
v c ng lanh l, trang b sng 20mm Colt Mark 12 v 2 hoc 4 tn la
Sidewinder ngang sn, v mt b ra a c kh nng hn ch. Phi cng F8
c hun luyn c bit tt vi cc trn nh qun vng (dogfight) v t ho v
thnh tch; H tin rngmy bay ca h l loi tt nht trong khng chin trn th
gii. F8 xut kch t cc tu sn bay loi nh, thuc th h Project 27 -Charlie,
sn xut t WW 2: Essex class carriers, Oriskany, Bon Homme Richard,
Hancock, Intrepid, Lexington, Ticonderoga, v Shangri La, vn u c sa
cha vn hnh my bay phn lc.
(on ny c nhiu photo nhng cha c iu kin scan).
C KQvHQ s dng F4 Phantom II, hai ch. Ban u F4 c pht trin
nhm em li cho HQ lc lng tim kch trang b radavtn la, nhng vi
performance so impressive, KQ cng chn lun n lm my bay chin u a
nng. HQ gi F4 l F4 B; KQ gn l F4C, nhng v bn cht chng l mt loi
my bay. T lc u, F4C tr thnh lc lng tim kch ch o ca KQ, nhng
F4B th chia s nhim v vi F8.
Trn phn ln cc kha cnh, F4l mt my bay excelent. Tng tc nhanh, bay
gp i tc m thanh tm cao v siu thanh tm thp, v c h thng ra
a cc mnh vn hnh bi ngi phi cng th hai ngi gh sau. F4 HQ, phi
cng ngi sau l navigator, gi l RIO (radar intercept officer). F4 KQ, phi cng
ngi sau l ngi va mi tt nghip bay, thng c bit n nh GIB (guy in
back). F4 ca KQ cng thng mang t hp iu khin bay dng cho GIB; F4 HQ
th khng .
Khi khng chin, F4 c th mang ti 8 tn la, 4 AIM9 tm nhit v4 tn la
dn ng bng rada tm xa AIM7 Sparrow. THeo xu th, F4 khng trang b
sng, v trn thc t, t phi cng yu cu lp t chng.
Thm na my thng tin trong quyn Clashes cu dch cng c mm ri, ri
v vui th dch anh emxem - th Quyn cng chng phi l g kinh khng lm
u, nhiu ngun thng tin khc ca M cng kh i nghch v trnh t thi gian

v chuyn xy ra trong cc ln giao chin . Cu c c ht b Osprey F-4

v MiG cc loi, ri thm quyn To Hanoi and Back hay When Thunder Rolled s
thy.
C xem ci on khen F-105 trong quyn cu dch y, thy gi tr quyn
cu dch ch l rt tng i. Nu c xong quyn F-105 Thunderchief:
Workhorse of the Vietnam War cng ngun M chc cu s ngh li c nn dch
on hay khng.
Sch ca ng Mitchel khng phi l mi, l chc chn (chnh v th n mi
l classic ngy nay). Hn na ng ny nguyn l phi cng F-105 c nh VN
cho nn chuyn thi phng loi my bay ny cng chng phi l l m n cng
khng lm hi g n tnh khch quan chung ca quyn sch. Chnh ci nhn ca
1 ngi tng c kinh nghim trong cuc nhng li vit sch nh mt s gia
hon ton cch ly vi s kin lm quyn sch ny ng gi hn my Osprey
chng hn. Cc bc vit rt hay v ccmy bay tav M. Nhng m ly Mig 17 ra
chi vi F-4 th ch khc no Ba-bt-nh chi vi Harley. Nn thy cc thy cc
cn cng bcTQ cng phc hc tr li my bay ci chi h bo bu tri. Gi
s F-4 hay F-105 c bn ri Mig 17 ,thm ch 21 i na cng chng t ho g
nh ngi ln nh b con,i bc chi thn cng. Li hng ngn gi bay i thi
u vi thng va bit li cng -nng Ta nn c s so snh vi ci t nc
Kim t thp mt t. V l nc Trung ng (cn hn nc VN tin n),quyn li
kinh t st sn vi Lin x ,nn Ai cp c cho,bn qu nhiu v kh ti tn.
Mnh mi nhn c Mig 21 th n c Mig 23 ngon lnh nhiu.V c bi ra con
17,19 no u. Nn khng qun ca n cng lu i. Th m nghe thy gicl
gc u cu nguyn, n ni chuyn gia Lin x mc c qun i chy ra cu
my bay khi nhng trn bom Do thi. Cn Vit nam c cho khng,my bay
ca Tu th qu ui. n khi ci Mig21 vo VN th nm 1970,mt ci my bay
Mig21 c t ln b ti i l Kashiskya,ai i n thm cng nhn Vit
nam KTX Zil u thy n. M LX, chin c c mi kc t ln b lm
tng i. Khi hc sinh Vit nam i hc ti ng Ucraine li my bay Mig21,u
tin ai cng lc u v th lc yu qu . Hc tr ty h cng khng cao ln hn
nhiu qu,v khng qun khng tuyn ngi to ln qu ,m tuyn ngi gn
gng,thm ch thp nh ngi trong bung li thoi mi. Th nhng h vt
c qua cc bi tp take off bng my phng. Khi ct cnh h chy mt on
ngn l ko cn li,bao lu mi ci bng. Ngi Vit mnh khng phi tp nh
th,m vn lm ri my bay. Sau h tm ra nguyn nhn,do cc em tit kim tin
n mua xe p,my khu hay sm Eletriacovka cho b m nn n t. th
khng hp khu v,cc em cn li n ph mt ti . Th l h khng pht tin
n na,m pht bng phiu. Ba n c cc thy xung tn nh n cho,p n.
c t lu h mi cho tip tc tp. c ci bn n hay ci,ting Nga km
nhng rt tnh cm.. Th m v nc,nhng ngi ny rt gii. Ti h nh cu
ca bc no trong din n l Sadam Hussein m qun i Iraq c mt phi
cng nh Hng Nh hay Thanh Ngn thi. M h c lm tin bn du mua v
kh ti tn.Ngoi ra cn c mua chu ti8 t rp vng na ch. Khng qun h

hin i nht cc nc , ti 1990 c khi Mig29 ti tn ri. Mc bn ri

c ci my bay ,d l trc thng,no ca Lin qun u ? Nghe thy ngi M
th s xanh mt,chng khc g nhng c dn Brussell B ngt i v ting
Thunderchief F105 bay thp. Ri cn Nam t na ch. i t nc ng thng
ca nhng ngi Maxedonia hn nht ! Nhng tng nhng con ngi gia cng
c gm tank T-80 l dng cm. Ngu.Cng may c mt phi cng
ngi Serb dm a 1 ch Mig29 ln bn gc ngay 1 ch tng hnh F-117
Ni nh th cc bc thng cm cho bn qu yu km v v kh. M ngi bn
ny ngc nhin v s my bay cua VN b M bn h lm. Theo nh dn tnh bit
th c VN ch c c 40 my bay bay c,cn sn sng tc chin th khng
qu ,mt na nh vy. V s v kh c cc tho c b mt gia LXv M hn
ch nn o u ra nhiu my bay ri nh vy. Phng chi KQ xvit c tin l
sau WWW2 l bt c my bay no ri,cng phi bo co iu tra r rng. Vy
nn c search trong google m vit v mnh th chng khc hnh dung ra s quan
Vit nam mc qun o Nht,i m mm Nht v binh lnh th i m ct kt ca
Php nh Rambo hay We Were The Soldies
Ti h Nga t b,th m vn ngc nhin rt nhiu v cc thit k ca Nga.
Bn ca ng gi c mt ng bn gi nt ru. Th m ai ng c ng l tc gi
ca hn 200 pht minh sng ch. Sau ny do bt mn,c ri phng thit k m i
lm ng st BAM vi bn thanh nin. y c lm ra mt ci my bay a dng
,di li trn m ly rng Xi be ri ,bay rt hay m theo c tn vi (xu). Ti
h c n xem m hnh,th khen v nh cang cht vi bao xi mng ln ci my
bay k d. Nu ai n xem trin lm v kh t to ca bn ti phm mi thy bt
ng ln. V kh rt hin i va hp l,li lm chui li trongnh ring (ci ny ni
topic v kh b binh) Bt ng ch,ngi Nga l ngi m mng. Th m l
thuyt nhiu khi thng thc dng. Nu c phi tin mi lm th chng ta khng
uc xem cc con Su-35 honh trng
Hi k nim BP trn khng c xut bn1 tp sch gm hi c ca cc cn b
PKKQ. Trong c hi k ca1 s quan trung on 927, theo ng ny th qun
chng c 373lit s phi cng. Nu khng tnh s phi cng trc thng, vn ti, s
hy sinh trong 2 cuc chin bin gii, trong tp luyn, tai nn th c th thy l
thit hi ca khng qun ta trong khng chin l kh ln. Trong S tht v 9 ln
xut qun ln ca TQ, hi trc bc no trch, th ring nm 1967 LX vin tr cho
ta 40m Cu panzerlehr ny, tu ni rng chuyn dch chia s vi anh em l
chuyn d u, phi nhc i nhc li mi th ny, t rt r: thi v mc ch
ca ngi dch cng quan trng khng km. Cn cu bo rng t cha tng
ng gp g cho box ny th li l phn on ch quan ca cu p li t ri,
nhng t ch trch lm g.
Cn khng r cu hairscary kim u raci m lut ca ngi to ch
trong box ri ni gim i thnh yu cu hay ngh khi ni qu th ny.
Cu tnh ni cho ai th ty cu, ci gi l freedom of speech n da trn c
s freewill v chng phi b rng buc g bi lut l mang tnh hnh chnh g u.
Ni n gin th thy trn t cch con ngi, t khng ng vi kiu cm

on thnh vin khc khng c pht biu, hay bo di bi ca thnh vin khc
i theo vi chi tit ngoi mt cht n gin v khng va . Ri cu panzerlehr
bo rng ch ti c ngi d bn rn vn c gng dnh thi gian vit dch, ai
khng bit iu l hay. Nhng cu kqndvn li bo cc cu cm HP vo khng
th cu y khng tham gia, t ngh nu khng ngh rng ci cu y lm l quan
trng nh hng him hay bu bi g , th vic cu y bi nu HP vo pht
biu cng bnh thng nh bao nhiu chuyn hng ngy khc vic g phi nh
cc bc ny n khng cho HP vo. Cn vic cu kqndvn dng hay khng
vi nhng iu HP ni l vn ca cu y, cy ngay u s cht ng, cu
hairscary vic g phi a oan bao ng th ny.
Cn cu panzerlehr, nh cu ni cu c tm tnh ring ca cu, t cng
vy, nn vic cu xem th no l thc gy bnh xe, ri cu thng ght g con
Bim nh cu, hay chuyn cu c phi ci nhiu hay t chng to bn hay
constipation [/b](not contirpation) th gi ring
cho cu i, em ln y lm g Nothing personal here.
Quay tr li vn quyn Clashes, n c dch v trch r r trong nhiu ln
tranh lun trc y trong Hng khng trm nm hay cc ch khng qun cho
nhng ln khng chin khc nhau. Cc cu mun dch li th tt thi, ti t thy
cu kqndvn cng dch theo tng cm vi ba trang cho nhng ln khng chin
khc nhau (nh trch r r trc y) thay v theo trnh t quyn sch nu cc
cu mun ch ny cho c quyn sch . Ch l gp nh ca t.
Cn th chuyn khng chin qu tm nhn HP ni khng phi l sai u. AIM-7
khng phi l khng hiu qu nh link cu hairscary cho u. Thc t bt ng
lun l mt yu t quan trng cho tn la tm xa, c bit l MiG-21 v MiG-17
th khng thit bin t t nhn dng l ang b bn bi tn la tm xa,
bit u m maneuver. C nhn bng
Mt hn ch ln hn l AIM-7 t c dng nhiu nh AIM-9 do Rules Of
Engagement, u chin tranh v giai on Rolling Thunder, phi cng M phi
nhn din my bay trc khi bn v s nhm my bay Trung Quc hay my bay
M khc. AIM-7 t khi c bn t ngoi tm 10km. Mt s phi cng M hin
nhin vn b qua lut . Ch v kh nng chin u ngoi tm nhn th ng l
xy dng t giai on nh HP ni.
Cn chuyn M phi m Top Gun, hun luyn dogfight th cng khng phi
trc tip do v kh BVRn d nh cu hairscary ni tranh lun vi HP m ra
u. n gin v mt s yu t, chng n phi bay su vo lnh th min Bc, lc
ta cho my bay ln t mt trong nhiu sn bay ngay trong trn a, lm sao m
chng s dng v kh tm xa cho c. [b]Mt iu na l radar ca chng giai
on cha n mc Doppler, khng phn bit ra my bay MiG-17 bay thp
khi nhiu mt t, th qun lun i chuyn bn tm xa l va.. Mt iu na l ta
dng GCI radar (Ground Control Intercept), gip iu khin MiG-21 n ng mc
tiu, i hnh my bay M thng b bt ng. Cn th chuyn v kh BVR by gi
hn thi l l d nhin ri, a con nt di 10 tui cng c th lp lun iu

.
V chuyn my bay radar th cch din gii ca nh tac l khng r nhng
khng phi l khng c hay khng ng. Tm ph sng radar ch ng M
khng kim sot c mt vng tri nht nh nh by gi vo thi , nhng
mt cch th ng chng n vn bt c mt s cc tn hiu ca ta v phn tch
don v tr my bay ta, nn c th hiu tm radar (ch ng) n khng vi ti.
C l HP ni nm na sao nut mt vi ba t ng thi. 3 loi my bay in t
EB-66, EC-121 (Disco), v E-2A, ri thm ci tu USS Chicago ngoi vnh Bc B
(Red Crown) lm thnh h thng in t ca chng. EB-66 hiu nhanh th nh
mt h thng IFF ln, ch yu thu v phn tch tn hiu radio. EC-121 th c h
thng radar c th vc thiu khin chin trn, nhng u nh ch mt hai ln
thnh cng trong vic dn ng F- n dit MiG. Cn E-2A th ca hi qun M,
vi radar ch yu kim sot khu vc gn b bin ta, gip bn my bay M bay
vo tn cng ta thi, cng thm s gip ca USS Chicago.
Cu cu hairscary hi t v chuyn khch quan hay khng gia ti liu tav
M, th xin tha
rng tht s t chng ngh ti liu no khch quan hn ti liu no c .
Li vit th ng l M c v khch quan hn, v ti liu ta t nhiu bnh
hng bi yu t tuyn truyn vn gip khng t cho chin thng ca chng ta.
Nhng cha chc phe ni khng c v khch quan l khng ng. T chng ni
l ti liu M khch quan hn nh cu kqndvn g , n c nho nh thi, trong
quyn Clashes, Marshall Mitchel c ni l ch c phi cng Vit Nam chin u vi
my bay M, khi c khng chin ta cn khng cho phi cng nc ngoi ln tri.
Thc t, phi cng Bc Hn c nh gip ta y ch, ta khng bao gi ni g
viu , khng ph nhn hay cng nhn, nhng liu ci cch ng Mitchel ni
tt cho ta on c phi to ci v l ng ta khch quan ri nhng ch
khc ng ta cng c cp n chuyn ta c th t to ra nhng chin cng
gi, hay ta tra tn phi cng M bo chng ni b my bay ta bn
ri, th t hi tht cu ul s tht? C l c cuv t, v c ng cng
chng bit, ch l nh gi ch quan nu ni nh nhtvc g khc na nu
mt ngi khc c ci nhn khc (v d nh HP)? Nn t chng ni bn no
khch quan hn, c chi nh truyn ngy xa ngy xa v enjoy theo cch
mi ngi vy thi, ng nn qung bl ti liu no khch quan v nhng
iu m lch s c hai bn cho thy l ch quan, nghe nh cc cu b ty no.
y bay chin u.
Trong mt vi topic, cc bc hi, ri t tr li. Ci g lm radar ta pht hin
chin dch nm bom B52. Cc bc bo ta c tnh bo tn hawai.v.v.v.v hay mt ci
g -trong khi rt n gin, radar ta ch b lm nhiu trn mt din tch nh, ngoi
din tch y, cc trm cnh gii ta tha kh nng theo di ch. Cng nh cc bc
ni v MIG, trong khi cc ti liu nghim tc ca nc ngoi lun ni v MIG
trong CTVN vi vai tr ca sch gio khoa. Nu nh trong CTTT, MIG c s

dng bi cc anh hng ww2, c tc v cao cao hn, kh nng leocao tt

hn (ngi ta cho thm F-86 mt u im l:..ri tt hn, v k thut, ni
ln my bay ny n li tt nhnghi hi mt t, v F-86 ch c h hn). MIG
trong ctvn th khc, y lccMIG c, s dng bi mt khng qun mi c 1-2
nm tui. Cu hnh my bay tim kch l nh em ni trn. Chng ta phi
dng my bay chin u bng s lng p o chin u bng s lng qu
t. Dng MIG-17 v MIG-19, nhng chic my bay cui cng c thit k
khng chin bng sng chin u vi my bay chin u bng tn la. Chng ta
phi dng my bay MIG-21 chin u bng tn la bn trc tip tm ngn chin
u vi my bay bn bngtn la c li tm xa. Cng nh em trnh by. Giai
on u, khng qun non tr ca ta lm khng qun k cu kinh hong, khi
dng my bay c s lng nh, chin u vi nhng i my bay hin i v
ng hn nhiu ln. Chi tit v nhng trn nh ny, c trn box nhiu. y l
chin tranh u tin m cc my bay s dng radar v tn la c iu khin lm
v kh chnh. y, em dch cho cc bc nhng g ngi ta ni v bolo. Sau khi
khng qun non tr ca ta lm i th khip va. Hai bn tm mi cch dng
v kh mi, ra cc phng php chin u mi. Bolo khng phi l mt chin
thut vi y ca n, nhng mt thi gian gy kh khn ln cho phi cng
ta.
y l on tc gi mo u:
Bi chuyn ny ni v nhng phi cng M gan gc chin u hoc
cht ng Nam trong cuc chin tranh Vit Nam mc d khng c dn
chng ng tnh v nhng phi cng Vit Nam-nhng ngi tham gia chn
ng hu ht cc quc gia mnh nht th gii trong cng cuc bo v x x ca
h, c bit nhng ngi cht trong cuc chin chng xm lc.
Vo nhng thng cui nm 1966, my bay MIG ca Khng Qun Nhn Dn
Vit Nam(VPAF), bin ch trong trung on khng qun 921 rt tch cc v c
hiu qu phi thng trong vic nh chn my bay F-105 Thunderchiefs ca
khng qun Hoa K (USAF) . Theo s liu ca h, trung on h 9 my bay
Thunderchiefs trong thng 12 nm 1966. Chi tit hn, nhngmy bay ca trung
on bn h 2 F-105 ngy 5, ba chic na n ngy 14. Ghi nhn ca M
khng cng nhn vic mt my bay trong nhng ngy ny, nhng li ghi nhn
vic mt tch phi cng-dn n t nht mi chic mt trong ngy 5 v 8
(???????) Ch rng, chic my bay F-105 ri ngy 8/12/1966 l mt s kin
c bit. N khng nm trong nhng con s chin thng trong khong chin cng
b gn y ca KQNDVN, nhng li nm trong cc vn bn KQNHVN gi cho
khng qun Soviet. Thm na, theo cc thng tin gn y, cho thy lc
chuyn gia Lin X c th thay th phi cng Vit Nam b thng hay cht, hoc
l mt tnh hung no trong mt bui tp. Mt trong nhng chuyn gia Soviet
ghi c 6 chin thng trong nm 1966 l Sr. Lt. Vadim Petrovich Shchbakov
mc d khng c chi tit v nhng chin thng ca ng. C th chic my bay F105 ri l do ng. Nh vy giu u hui, chic my bay b bn h v b giu
ngy hm li qu ni ting, c s hiu 591820, phi cng Donald Asire (KIA).

Tuy s liu ca Vit Nam v M khc nhau, nhng chc chn l MIG thng to,
lm khng qun M thit hi n mc khng chu c, v vy, M quyt nh
chn ng mi e da t MIG. N lc c tn chin dch Bolo. tng ca chin
dch l mt kit tc ca mt nhn vt c cuc sng rt ni nh m trong s cc
phi cng F-4 ng Nam , i t Robin Olds. ng l mt cu ace P-38/P-51 ca
chin tranh th gii, bn h 12 my bay c nm 1944-1945, nm 1966 44 tui,
lCO 8thTFW vi bit danh St th (ch em, h h h). ng l mt mu phi cng
chin u c: th, nng, nhu nhng l mt lnh o thoi mi v l mt nh
chin thut trc gic. ng tin rng, nu a mt i hnh F-4 i lin sau F-105, s
dng cng tn s in i, cng khu ng lin lc, ng bay, cao, tc th
nhng ngi phn tch caH Ni s qun ng nhm l i hnh F-105 d
xi, iu MIG n, khi cc MIG nhn ra l s tht th qu mun. Nh vy,
ng ngh mt i hnh ln F-4 s dng cng ng bay, tc , cao gi lm
F-105.
Ngy bt u ca chin dch Bolo l 2-1 nm 1966. Bt u ti, 14 tp F-4C
8th TFW xut pht t cn c Udon Thi lan gi v lm F-105. Pha ng, cc
my bay Fa ca 366th TFW bt ng rt lui ca cc MIG. Olds ch huy tp u.
Mt lnh ly t cc t ang mt lc Ford, Rambler. Tuy c inh nghim cin
u lu nm nhng Olds vn lo, liu h cmc mi khng. iu lo lng nhanh
chng qua i, khi m nhng MIG xut hin v pht hin khng phi l con mi
F-105 hp dn, m l F-4. Chic MIG u tin b h bi Olds 02 Ralph
Wetterhahn, chic tip theo Captain Walter Radeker. Ban u Olds khng my
mn. Trong bo co, ng ta ghi: Bt u trn nh, mt MIG ri khi trn my
xut hin trc ng, 11 gi, khong cch 2000yards, chic ny chui li vo trong
myOlds cui theo.. Olds n lin ba n, mt Sidewinder v hai Sparrows.
Nhng ch th chng t ng cp, trnh c ba n v bin mt vo trong my.
Tm th.
Cn khng r cu hairscary kim u ra ci m lut ca ngi to ch
trong box ri ni gim i thnh yu cuhay ngh khi ni qu th ny.
Cn vic cu kqndvn dng hay khng vi nhng iu HPni l vn ca cu
y, cy ngay u s cht ng, cu hairscary vic g phi a oan bao ng th
ny.
Tha bc submarines, ni mt cch khc, y khng c ci freedom of
speech theo ng ngha ca freedom of speech. V d, din n qui nh cm
nhng bi vit nhy cm. Bc nah cm mt t th c ln ct in ngi
chi, nhy cm t na th lo i kim nick mi, t d th. Nhc li l ti vit rng
ngi ch s hu ca ttvnol t ra cc qui nh ca din n chung, mi box c
qui nh ring. Ngi m mi topic c quyn t ra yu cu ring. Tuy nhin yu
cu ca ngi m topic c c m bo hay khng l tu vo cc thnh vin
khc. y bc kqndvn c quyn yu cul cm HP tham gia vo topic ny,
nhng HP th vn post bi vo v iu khng vi phm vo qui nh ca box, v
bc kqndvn d nhin l chng th no lm g c. C nhn ti cng khng ng

tnh vi bc kqndvn. Nhngl doc yu cu cm l l do c nhn ca bc

kqndvn i vi HP, ng bin n sang bu bi g ri giu ct ngi ta. V
cm HP khng c nghal cm freedom of speech. Bao ng hay khng, th cng
ging nh ti vi bc ang trao i y thi.
Cn th chuyn khng chin qu tm nhn HP ni khng phi l sai u. AIM-7
khng phi l khng hiu qu nh link cu hairscary cho u. C nhn bng chin
thng khng chin ca bn M thy, AIM-7 ch sau AIM9.http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/usvictor.html
Ci bng thng k ca bc ch cho bit s my bay b h bi AIM-7 ni
chung. N khng cho bit tnh hung bn h c th, qu tm nhn hay trong tm
nhn. N khng cho bit loi AIM-7 no, AIM-7E thng hay AIM-7E-2 cho
dogfight. N cng khng cho bit l tn bao nhiu qu AIM-7 mi h c mt
my bay, v xem xt t l nh gi hiu qu, qu tm nhn hay khng. Bc
c th vo Yahoo hay Google AIM-7 ra t mng v c cc on AIM-7 lin quan
ti chin tranh VN. T l kill probability ch khong 10% cho ci i AIM-7E qu
tm nhn y. Ln trc ti c a ci link ca globalsecurity. Bc vo FAS ngi
ta ni y ht nh th. FAS=Federation of American Scientists th phi, ci ny tui
khng chc lm. Ci topic sinh i ca bc kqndvn c a s liu v tm ca
AIM-7. Nhng link khc v AIM-7 thi k CTVN cn lc quan hn nhiu, tm bn
head on l khong 20 nm, bn ui l khong 5.5 nm, trong iu kin thun li
nht, v nhng thng s ch l l thuyt. Ngi ta vit rng tm ti a ca tn
la ny (max. range) vt qu rt nhiu (far exceed) so vi tm hiu qu ti a
(max. effective range). Nhng ng vi ly ci tm trn gn vo ci qu tm
nhn, v y ch l trn giy t.
Mt hn ch ln hn l AIM-7 t c dng nhiu nh AIM-9 do Rules Of
Engagement, u chin tranh v giai on Rolling Thunder, phi cng M phi
nhn din my bay trc khi bn v s nhm my bay Trung Quc hay my bay
M khc. AIM-7 t khi c bn t ngoi tm 10km. Mt s phi cng M hin
nhin vn b qua lut . Ch v kh nng chin u ngoi tm nhn th ng l
xy dng t giai on nh HP ni.
Vit nh trn th c phi l ngay t u Mo chngxy dng ci qu tm
nhn ng khng, rule of engagement m. rule l phi visual ID ri th cn qu
tm nhn th qui no c na.
Cn chuyn M phi m Top Gun, hun luyn dogfight th cng khng phi
trc tip do v kh BVRn d nh cu hairscary ni tranh lun vi HP m ra
u. ta cho my bay ln t mt trong nhiu sn bay ngay trong trn a, lm sao
m chng s dng v kh tm xa cho c[/i]. khng phn bit ra my bay MiG17 bay thp khi nhiu mt t, th qun lun i chuyn bn tmxa l va.. Mt
iu na l ta dng GCI radar (Ground Control Intercept), gip iu khin MiG-21
n ng mc tiu, i hnh my bay M thng b bt ng.
Ti vit ri, dn ng ca ta t cho Mo c hi xy dng ci qu tm
nhn y. trn th l Mo t rule, y th thm ci l ta hn ch n. Cn g

xy vi dng na y. Ti khng vit r rng v v kh BVR ca Mo d nn phi

dy nhau dogfight. Ti vit rng Mo tng c u th vi AIM-7 nhng cui cng
th vn phi dy nhau dogfight. Hai ci ny c khc nhau. Xin bc v c thm v
l do m TopGun. Cn chuyn ct cnh trong trn a l th no? N ang b
bom ngay gn sn bay th ta ct cnh ln, hay trn a y l c min Bc VN?
Bc phi vit r ra mi c. t c trng hp my bay ta ct cnh khi ch ang
nh ph ngay sn bay hay gn sn bay. C trng hp ch phc kch gn sn
bay ch ta ct cnh. Nhng vn vn l dn ng, dn t xa dn vo, to th
bt ng. Bc c li chuyn ca bc L Thnh Chn, c link ngay trang 1. Dng
m tm li th l Mo vn phi dogfight v chng c c hi xy dng ci qu tm
nhn y, ng khng?
V chuyn my bay radar th cch din gii canhta c l khng r nhng
khng phi l khng c hay khng ng. Tm ph sng radar ch ng M
khng kim sot c mt vng tri nht nh nh by gi vo thi ,
Keyword: EC-121. Mo tuyn b hai chic ny l kim sot hu ht bu
tri Bc Vit. Mt ci Lo, mt vnh Bc b E-2, i u E-2A, radar An/APQ96, sau l E-2B, radar An/APQ-120, dng CTVN. E-2C by gi radar tm
khong 345 nm. Ly ci tm khim tn thi cho E-2A/B l 250 nm. Thng ny hay
EC-121 thng bay cch Hi Phng khong 50 nm. Cn li 200 nm liu c
cho khong cch t Hi Phng ti Vnh Yn khng. Nh tnh ng chim bay
ch khng tnh ng chim i xe p. E-2A kh nng pht hin mc tiu trn t
lin km nu mc tiu bay thp. Nhng nu mc tiu bay cao ti 7000 mt th l
chuyn khc.
C l HP ni nm na sao nut mt vi ba t ng thi.
Chuyn hai chic my bay ny cn phi bn nhiu. Nhng m ti th c t hi
k thut HIN I g m radar khng vi ti m vn pht hin ra ch u t tt
tn tt ng xa. Th nn ti th t li ci cu trn ca bc thnh: C l HP quen
xo nu v mi din thuyt hng hn nn mi thnh ra vy, NU NH hai my
bay Mig-17 l hai chic bc Chn t. M bc Chn ch r thng E-2A.
Cu cu hairscary hi t v chuyn khch quan hay khng gia ti liu tav
M, th xin
tha rng tht s t chng ngh ti liu no khch quan hn ti liu no c .
Khng phi, ti nil ci bi ca bc HP kia ka.
Thc ra m ni, ci khi nim BVR, hay qu tm nhn, th phi sau ny ngi
ta mi dng n. Chng ai dng n cho ci AIM-7 y c. Bc c tnh bn t 20
nm (head on) trn l thuyt, phi chiu qut mc tiu lin tc bng radar, vi tc
my bay, li bay i u (thc t th chng c vy), th qu tm nhn ci
qui g na. Mt bao nhiu lu u tr thnh trong tm nhn. Th nn tng
ci qu tm nhn ca nhng nm sau vo y, ri hng hn rng anh nng dn
chn t mt tot nm 1947 hai mi nm sau cng Mo xy dng k thut
khng chin qu tm nhn, m thc ra l lm bia cho qu tm nhn ca n v mnh

ch c trong tm nhn, th lm ci g.
To cc bc khng thch ci nhau: Nu cc bc thch xo nu khng th khng
sao, nhng xo nu ri trnh by n li mt cch honh trng v hng hn qu th
th no ti cng ch .
Trong tng s ~200 air victories m M claim th ch c 27 kills l do F105, tc
l c 12%. Vy nn cun v F105 lm sao c cover cc trn khng chin nh
cun ang dch c? M tt nht l chng minh li cu ni th cu nn bt
u dch cho anh em th hn l ch ni sung. y mi ngi snh gi cao
y. Ti th khng thch my bay nm bom nn ti s khng dch cun y u ti lt qua n th vin ri.
V chuyn ti ku gi cm Huyphuc81_nb khng tha u. Ch ngay sau khi
post n bi th hai cu ta vo tung li mt st thm t ri. Ti phi nh v
Mod xo h ngay bi . M y l ti ngh cm Huyphuc81_nb vo chi
bi la lng-chc cu cng ng l freedom of speech khng bao gm quyn
c mt st nhau trn din n y ch?
Ngy u tin nhp hc n pht cho orientation package, trong c bn cam
kt cm in n, nhn bn ti liu. Ti liu Seminar ca hi ny Professor lp no
cng ni r ngay t bui u l khi kt thc class you guys have to destroy the
papers.
Sch th vin nu l loi ph thng, textbook th c trng i hc mua
bn quyn cho sinh vin dng ri, nn c php photo c mc . Sch khng
thuc dng ph thng v trng i hc tr tin bn quyn th khng c chuyn
photo thoi mi u.
Anh, ti mi my photo trngti c hng dn ngay bn trn l khng
c photo qu 10% cun sch, v khng c photo nguyn vn mt chng.
Khi photo phi ng k vi th vin t trang bao nhiu n trang bao nhiu.
Khng thy ai i bt l v PhngTy h cho t gic; Dn h c thc
t gic cao nn cm l h (tuyt i a s) khng lm. Ch c dn Men, M
nhp c, dn quc t l hay violate lut thi. Khng may ai b dnh vo th ngi
y chu. ng cm ni vi lut php l bao nhiu ngi cng th sao my
chng bt, bt mi tao. Lut l lut.
Cu kqndvn ni chuyn v copyright vi li culture orientation thng tho th
m khng bit l bi vit ca cu vi phm vn nghim trng nht ca nc
M ? th ng gs ca cu qun khng ni vi cc cu l racist, discrimination
mi trong accdemic Hoa K l c th bui hc (vi hc tr nh cu) v ui
dy (vi gio s ) hay sao? Nhng nhn xt ca cu v tnh primitive, sadistic
ca ngi da mu v hnh chung thnh ca ngi white supermacy y. Hi vng l
cu ng vui ming m l cho my bc ghetto nghe: dt khot s b nn nh t,
nu bn hc
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^

.
m nghe: kh nng i hc s rt cao, cn trn din n ny cu cng
khng nn vit nhng chuyn v v tnh s to tin xu cho nhng ngi tin
theo hoc gy nn s kh chu cho nhng ngi ght cay ght ng ti racist
nh ti.
Thm mt iu na: ch c trng no li mua bn quyn mt cun sch
cho sv ca mnh dng u kqndnv .(tr phi sch do chnh NXB ca trng pht
hnh) Tr nhng ti liu nm trong electronic reserve ca th vin trng ra
(c tr tin bn quyn)th TT C mi hnh ng phot u l phm lut, d
ch l mt trang. Lut l th nhng tt c gio s u phot nhiu on ti liu
cho sv v nu phi mua c th ch ai kham ni (k c ngi da trng t gic m
cu khen ngi). iu c ngha l vn c th chamm chc c (v sch
y t qua chng m li phi dng rt nhiu).Nu trung ca kqdnvn tyt diu
nh vy th ni tn xem, ti c th tm xem hc hi trng hp c nht v
nh ca h thngGD M. K cng hay y ch
Ci ny bc cn phi xem li. Theo em bc ang nhm ln gia2 vn hon
ton khc nhau l : khch quan v s tht. Bc m mun c ni ln s
thtth em xin mi bc c my quyn kinh thnh vi Mao
Tuyn chng hn Ch khch quan y ch l cch tc gi khai thc t nhng
ngun tin ca mnh a ra1 kt lun c tnh l-gch thuyt phc c c
nhng ngi ngoi cuc thi bc . T mi c thsuy ra ci no khch quan
hn ci no. Chng hn y, vic bc gn cho ng Marshall Michell ny ci
chuyn ng ta khen F105 vi s tht, nu bc ara bng chng t cc thng tin
ca bc l ti sao ng ta nh gi sai ci F105, v n c tnh thuyt phc nh bc
tng khoe, th chnh l 1 th d v tnh khch quan. Ch bc c li my ci
tao
to ba ln nh s tht vi c ty no vo y em nghe thy n dm qu
bc ! M nu bc c k hn my post ca em, bc s thy em vn i t u
ti gi nhng phn tch ca bc v chuyn chic F105 . Thm vo post trn,
bc c th ch cho em on no trong Clashes, tc gi c ni l ch c phi cng
Vit Nam chin u vi my bay M, khi c khng chin ta cn khng cho phi
cng nc ngoi ln tri ch no khng? Ti sao em ch tm thy
ch no ng ta ni nh th c M cng xin ni thm em hon ton tn trng
nhng pht biu ca bc Huy Phc, qua nhng bi ca bc y trong nhng ti
em hiu bit r hn nh WW2, chin thut tc chin ca QNDVN trong cc
cuc chin tranh v qua, em bit l bc y cngl 1 ngi c kin thc su rng
v cng c nhit tnh vi box ny cho nn nhng ti mi i vi em nh
my ci my bay tu b ny em ch c bi ca bc y hc hi l chnh, cn
chuyn chm chc em
thy my thng ph tc di lm l qu ri khi cn ngi khc a dua vo.
tng ca chin dch l mt kit tc ca mt nhn vt c cuc sng rt ni

nh m trong s cc phi cng F-4 ng Nam , i t Robin Olds. ng l mt

cu ace P-38/P-51 ca chin tranh th gii, bn h 12 my bay c nm 19441945, nm 1966 44 tui, lCO 8thTFW vi bit danh lnh o n Si (ch em,
h h h). ng l mt mu phi cng chin u c: th, nng, nhu nhng l mt
lnh o t nhin v l mt nh chin thut trc gic. ng tin rng, nu a mt
i hnh F-4 i lin sau F-105, s dng cng tn s in i, cng khu ng lin
lc, ng bay, cao, tc th nhng ngi phn tch ca H Ni s qun
ng nhm l i hnh F-105 d xi, iu MIG n, khi cc MIG nhn ra
l s tht th qu mun. Nh vy, ng ngh mt i hnh ln F-4 s dng
cng ng bay, tc , cao
Ngy bt u ca chin dch Bolo l 2-1 nm 1966. Bt u ti, 14 tp F-4C
8th TFW xut pht t cn c Udon Thi lan gi v lm F-105. Pha ng, cc
my bay Fa ca 366th TFW bt ng rt lui ca cc MIG. Olds ch huy tp u.
Mt lnh ly t cc t ang mt lc Ford,
Rambler v Olds. Tuy c kinh nghim cin u lu nm nhng Olds vn lo,
liu h cmc mi khng. Trn nh chia lm 3 t.
Olds
iu lo lng nhanh chng qua i, khi m nhng MIG xut hin v pht hin
khng phi l con mi F-105 hp dn, m l F-4. Chic MIG u tin b h bi
Olds 02 Ralph Wetterhahn, chic tip theo Captain Walter Radeker. Ban u
Olds khng may mn. Trong bo co, ng ta ghi:
Trn nh bt u khi MIG ri khi trn my. Khng may cho ti, mt chic
xut hin hng 6 gi. Ti ngh, l mt tai nn hn l mt hnh ng chin
thut. Ngay say , rt nhiu MIG xut hin ri t trn my nhiu ch khc
nhau. Ti gp may, MIG ng sau ti ch ti chic my bay bay sau.
MIG ri khi trn my xut hin trc ng, 11 gi, khong cch 2000yards,
chic ny chui li vo trong myOlds cui theo.. Olds n lin ba n, mt
Sidewinder v hai Sparrows. Nhng ch th chng t ng cp, trnh c ba
n v bin mt vo trong my. Ti b qut sang tri, gc d thot khi ng
bn ca chicMIG v hy vng chic my bay ym h ng sau ch ti MIG.
Trong khi , mt MIG khc ri trn my, xut hin hng 11gi, khong cch
2000 yard. N mun chui tr li vo trn my nhng ti tm cch tn cng n.
Olds bn lin ba n, mt tri Sidewinder v hai Sparrows, nhng ch th
chng t ng cp, trnh c ba triv mt ht. Trong kh d, Luck khng an ton
mt bn sn, mt chic MIG tn cng t hng v mt MIG khc c th tr
thnh mc tiu sau khi n trnh. Mi s nhanh chng thay i. Olds tip:
Chic th ba xut hin hng 10 gi, bay t tri sang phi, gn nh l i
din. Chic MIG th nht co khong cch li cn ti bt t hu tm ch tn
cng tt hn MIG mi. Ti ngn my bay ca ti ln gc 45 bn trong vng
lng ca chic MIG ny. MIG ln v tri, ti ko cn li v thc hin ng ln
thnh thng v phi. ng ln c tc dng rt tt. Ti cm thy ti trn u

mc tiu , nhn thy mt na mt trn ca n. Ti giiu trong khi MIG kt

thc vng ln, tnh ton trc thi gian , ti c th lt ng sao MIg v bm
c ui vi gc 20 khong cch 1500 yard. MIG kh nhn thy ti khi ti
sauv bn di. Ti c th nhn thy bng n i din vi mt tri khi ti phng
hai qu Sidewinders mt qu chnh xc v ct ri cnh phi. Vi pht sau, nhm
Olds bo co bn h 3 MIG m khng mt my bay no. H tr v sn bay. Kt
thc vng u.
Ford
Vng th hai, mt tn Ford n vng hay gp MIG. Ch huy chuyn ny l ,
Colonel Chappie James khng bn h ch th no nhng dn ng cho
Captain Everett T. Raspberry. Lc 15h04 ti b tn cng bi 3 MIG, hai chic 10
gi v mt chic 6 gi. Ban u ti khng ch n chic th ba n gn bv tp
trung v ch khc. Ti c cnh bo khn co mt MIG ang n nhanh, trong
gc bn khong cch 4-3 ln tm. Ti d d mt cht trc khi dng tn cng
hai MIG pha trc v ti . nhn thy Olds bay bn di chng ti vi giay trc
y. Ti ngh rng chic my bay m ngi ta nhc cho ti c th l mt trong
nhng chic . Ti lt t ng my bay sang tri, ri sau sang phi, bn cht
chic MIG th 3. Ti lnh cho s 3v 4 lt phi. H lm nh vy, MIG vng gp
ttri mt cch kh hiu v mt phn giy chng ti bay bn nhau, rt gn nhau,
ngoi ngi sao trn canh ca MIG ti nhn r mt phi cng. Ti lt mt ng
lt thnh thng ngang raxa MIG v t mnh vo v tr tn cng., khi c v
tr, ti bn mt tn la Sidewinder, tn la trt d MIG trnh c bi mt ng
tc r tri t ngt vi ga ht c. Nhng khi MIG lm ng tc , MIG t mnh
vo v tr bn ca s 2 l i y Everett T. Raspberry. Ti lnh cho anh ta theo con
mi, biv bt u nhn thy hai my bay
pha trc ti. r mt v tr thun li, ti bn hai pht n AIM-9s lin tip v
pha mc tiu v lt my bay, t t mnh vo v tr cnh giii cho s 2. Ti gim
khong cch vi s hai, i y Raspberry v ngh, anh ta vn ngoi hnh nn
phng n tt nht. Nhng anh ta thc hin mt ng ln nh v t t vo v
tr u vit tn cng v phng mt tn la AIM-9, n trng dui chic MIG. N
rung lc mnh, ri xung v sau xoy ln. Trn anh do nhm Ford thc hin
hon thnh, khng my bay no ca M mt v1 MIG ri. Ngy hm , t s
l 4:0, mi th thun li trn th 3 bt u, nhm Rambler ct cnh.
Rambler
Trn anh cui cng do nhm Rambler thc hin, i qua mt vi ni m MIG
hay n, d i y John B. Stone ch huy. Stone trng thy 2 MIg trc v sau,
lng lng tin n gnm h 1 MIG bng hai tn la AIM-7 Sparrows . Ngay sau
, Stone tn cng chic MIG th ba, nhng l mt hnh ng kt hp vi s hai,
Stone t MIG vo v tr bn thun li ca s 4 Philip P. Combies (Rambler 04).
Stone k v trn nh:
Chng ti bay cao 4800met v tc khong 1000km/s. Mt lc sau khi
hon thnh mt vng Ty Bc, chng ti nhn thyy mt i 4 MIG ang hng

dc khong cch 8km, gc 2 gi thp hn chng ti. Hn hai MIG xut hin
pha sau khong 3km. Khi MIG cho qua trc Stone, Stone b thng du ph,
r tri v bt u ui theo. V iu , i hnh bai tri rng ra bn phi. Stone
cm thy v tr ca mnh hn cao hn v ra bn phi nhng my bay khc.
Stone gi van du rm nh ntk hi bn du trn nh, MIG b gp sang tri,
trn nh bt u. Stone k tip. Ti chn ly mt MIG v ui theo n bng rad
ca mnh. Ti khng ngh rng chng ti chu ng 4G-cha bao gi nh th m
bnh yn v s. Ti quyt nh s dng chin thut ca phi cng Hi Qun, thu
hp khong cch theo radar nh trn, nhng bng cch nhn qua vch ngm ch
thp. Khi ti thc hin iu , ti ang v tr bn tri, ti n nt bn, nh ra, ri
li n v th ln na. Ti khng nhn thy qu Sparrow u tin. Tuy nhin ti di
theo c qu th hai t lc bn n khi chm mc tiu. Ti bn qu ny t
khong cch nh hn 2000yards, cao 3500met v r sang tri. Qu n th
hai nh trng ui MIG, mt giy sau bng ln mt qu bng la dacam to
tng.
M giy sau, MIG th hai b F-4C Phantom Rambler 02 h, c v nh bng
tn la Sparrow do phi cng Lawrence Glynn bn. l MIG th ba do i
Rambler h, a t s ton trn nh ln n 7:0. Tng kt, trn nh Bolo
ngy 2 thng ging nm 1966:
555 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C R. Wetterhahn J.Sharp AIM-7 MiG-21
555 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C W. Radeker II J. Murray III AIM-9 MiG-21
555 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C R. Olds C. Clifton AIM-9 MiG-21
555 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C E. Raspberry R. Western AIM-9 MiG-21
433 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C P. Combies L. Dutton AIM-7 MiG-21
433 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C J. Stone C. Dunnegan AIM-7 MiG-21
433 TFS, 8 TFW F-4C L. Glynn Jr. L. Cary AIM-7 MiG-21
Tuy nhin, pha khng qun nhn dn Vit Nam thng bo chnh thc h mt
5 MIG hm , cng thm chic th su phi cng nhy d do ht du. C th
MIG ht du do h hi thng du v trn nh. VNAF cng nhn M thng trng
trong ngy hm . Tht bi ca VNAF v trn
nh ngy 6 thng ging (2 MIG mt) lm VNAF khng giao chin t thng
ging n na thng 3.
Tip tc chin tranh:
Nhng khng qun M ch lm tng cm hn t pha khng qun Nhn Dn
Vit Nam. H rt ra sc mnh t mt mt sai lm ca h v tr li bu tri, tip
tc v tip tc. Mt vi thi im thng vi t s cao.,nh lcon s my bay M
mt do chin u trn khng thng 4,5,8 v thng 11 nm 1967 xa i tht bi.
Trong nm , trong cc cuc khng chin, khng qun M mt 32 my bay nm
bom (bao gm 16 F-105D/F cc loi, 2F-101C v mt A-1E, cng thm hn8

chic ca hi qun. Cc phi cng F-4C/D ca 366th TFW v 8th TFW n lc

bo v cc my bay nm bom, nhiu khi thnh cng. khong t 36-59 chic MIG
b h bi h, 23 trong s thuc v n si. Nhng h cng phi tr gi t
cho vic : 13 F-4C/D cc loi b bn h bi khng chin trong ring nm .
Khng c s liu chnh thc t pha Khng Qun Nhn Dn Vit Nam, nhng
khng 70% trong l thit hi tht cho VNAF. Vic my bay M ri nhiu hn
trong khng chin xa sch thnh cng ca trn nh Bolo ni ting.
kin ring ca HP. Ngi M rt d giu cc tht bi trong khng chin ca
h, do nhng nguyn nhn: 1, ngi M ch tnh my bay ri ti trn trong khng
chin, cn my bay dt do mt lc mi mt th khng 2, s lngmy bay ri do
khng chin rt t so vi my bay ri do v kh trn mt t, d chuynt nguyn
nhn ny sang nguyn nhn kia. Nhng ngi M nghim tc th nghin c chin
tranh mt cch nghim tc, cn nhng ngi M khng nghim tc th ht m.
C nhng my bay bi giu bun ci nh 8/12/1966 chng hn, chic my bay b
mt v b giu sau ny li qu ni ting.
Nhn chung, khng qun Nhn Dn Vit Nam (VNAF) thng li. Thng li
cn tr nn sng r hn nu hiu rng, ta ly sng bn nhau vi tn la, ly MIG17 h F-105, F-4. MIG-21 v MIG17 u l nhng my bay khng chin trong
i hnh rt ln, do , chng mang t v kh. Ngi M khng ngi g khi tuyn
truyn, h c th ba ra nhng con s bit ni nht trn i. V d, tng kt
chin tranh TT, khng qun Nga-Tu-Bc Hn thng li ln, t s chung l
khong 300:1400. Nhng rt nhiu sch bo ti liu ..v.v.v.v ca M ht tong: M
thng 10:1. Tht l coi ni c nh tr con. Trong chin tranh Vit Nam cng
vy, ch hai phi cng k cu M tr thnh ace, trong khi , Vit Nam c nhiu
Ace. Em khoi nht Phm Thanh Ngn, phi cng sng to nht, nhng chuyn k
v ng khng nhiu. y, em ch ngn gn gii thiu ba phi cng By, Sot,
Cc, theo con mt ngi nc ngoi. Cc bc s thy, MIG-17 gio chin v bn
h F-105 v F-4 th no, sng bn nhau vi tn la th no.
Ni v chin tranh VN cng vy. Em tng dc thy mt cu 20 tui ngi
M ku: trn no chng ta cng thng, ti sao chng ta li thua. Chng ta khng
thua, chng ta ch rt lui. Chin tranh trn khng cng khng nm ngoi iu .
Trong cc sch v vit v CTVN ca M, lun lun M thng to. Emv d nh n
lc tuyt vng cui cng: 12 ngy m tht bi thm thng ca M. Mng
ng b bn m phn, quay li nm bom, nh bt chng ta phi nhng b.
Din bin trn nh th no cc bc bn nhiu ri. Quay li bn m phn,
ca phng hp, trc mt ng o phng vin, Kt gi tay xin bn tay bc Th
nh ta. Bc Th nh ta khng bt, chi cho mt trn ti bi khi la: rng lKt lt
lng sp k hip nh ri cn quay vnh nhau, rng l nay bn mi quay li
k. Kit im tht, thua trn chin trng lm cho hnh ng lt lng trn bn m
phn khng th bin l c. Th nhng ngy nay cc ti liu M ni v trn
: M nm bom mt trn kinh hong, Bc Vit mt sch my bay v ng
st, nh ngi vo bn m phn. C liu ny cn c mc ba t trng trn

hn l con s 10:1 ca chin tranh TT. Ok, v freedom of speech t ng rng

n phi b ra ngoi defamation hay lng m trong mi trngx hi. Nhng ny
nh, nu cc cu mun em lut x hi ra m ni th t cng chu luni. Ci
chuyn m c quyn t ra lut l cho mt ch , nu c, phi mang tnh chung
chung, bao qut nhiu trng hp. Nn nh cu kqndvn c th bo rng cm
cc thnh vin khc vo ch ca cu ta lng m hay s nhc g y th
ng. Nhng nu cu ta t r rng rng cm HP vo y s nhc hay lng m th
iu hon ton sai ri. Cu ta r rng c trong u ci suy ngh l HP s
vo lng m cu ta, v cu ta ph bin ci suy ngh c nhn cho c box.
Trong box ny c th c ngi thch, hoc c ngi ght HP, chng th ku
gi qun chng ng v mt phe no gip y c th mt ai ra, nh HP
y chng hn. Ci c th xem l breach of freedom of speech hay c ca
freewill ca nhng ngi khc y. Thm na, v ch ra r l HP khng c
vo lng m, t hi tht nhe: nu mt thnh vin mi vo cha r HP l ai, t
nhiu HP cng ng gp khng nh cho box trc n nay y ch, nhng ngay
lp tc thnh vin mi s xp HP vo loi c bit. iu thc t chng ng
cht no. Cn t hi tht cu kqndvn ci cch ch ra c th thnh vin no b cm
lng m trong ch ca cu c phi l mt cch lng m c th thnh vin
gin tip khng. Cn nhng thnh vin khc t d nh t c th lng m cu nh.
T c thy HP lng m cu kqndvn nhiu, v chng hay ho g, nhng chngv
th m cu kqndvn sai nguyn tc chung nht c, d nhin l tr phi cu mun
cu nh HP hay tr a HP. Cu kqndvn M chc bit cu Sticks and stones
may hurt, not words. nn nu nhng iu cu ni l ng th n s mi ng vic
g phi lo chuyn b HP ra ngoi. V t thy ci cu g i khi Khng th mt
ngi lm cn mt ngi ph c. ca cu kh l ch quan y, chc g k
ai lphv ai llm. Nu khng ngh rng iu cu lm l quan trng th vic g
phi ni cu y vi c box cnh gii k no c th ph cu. C nhn cu
nu c suy ngh th c tip tc lm i, vic g phi hoa m t ng k lm,
ngi ph cho c box ny.
Cu hairscary nn ch rng t chng bao ng ch ra c th rng cu
kqndvn c dng hay khng vi th g . T khng quan tm v chuyn . T
ch quan tm n chuyn thc thi freedom of speech m thi, bt k l thnh
vin no. T d cu hairscary em chuyn dng ca cu kqndvn ra bin minh
cho hnh ng ng th ok, cn nu bin minh cho ci g khc ci th gi l
bao ng y.
Tr li chuyn k thut vi cu hairscary, ai chng bit ci bng y l chung
mi A-to-A kill ca M. Nhng t nu ra cu thy rng AIM-7 n ch sau AIM-9
thi trong chin tranh Vit Nam. M bn AIM-7 t 5 km n 10km trng, my bay
F-chng qun v g c th sao gi l dogfight. Cho cu ci nh ngha dogfight
ny:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fight
Dogfight thng cp n cn chin tm di 3km. Dogfight ngha l phi

ui nhau v qun v.
Cn chuyn BVR l th no. C hai nh ngha cho n, tng i v tuyt i
(usually, referred to as true BVR). Tuyt i ngha l ngoi 15nm khai ha ngha
l BVR, bt k head-on hay khng. Ci ny th phi n chin tranh vng Vnh ln
mt mi c tnh hung chin trn tht ngoi 25nm v c cng nhn. Tng i
ngha l tim kch c th xc nh mc tiu qua radar hay phng php no khc
v bn m khng visually identify theo ngha thc nht- bng mt, c th v hm
no thi tit xu, khng nhn ra mc tiu ch 7km chng hn. Nhng ci 7km
chng th no l dogfight nh, chng tm li g ht nhe, ci l BVR tng
i, chng th m ngi ta phi dng ch true BVR phn bit, cu ch ni true
BVR, nhng my th cn li chng th l dogfight c c.
Nhc li t ni rng k thut BVR c xy dng t giai on chin tranh Vit
Nam, iu ny hon ton ng, cu hairscary chem true BVR hiu qu hay
khng ngay trong chin tranh Vit
Nam ra bt b, t khng ni iu ny, thy ch xy dng r to ca t nhe.
ROE th lin quan n chuyn visually identify enemy aircraft. Nn trong phm
vi 10km chng hn phi cng F-c th nhn thy mt chm en ng xa trong iu
kin thi tit tt y, nhng bit u ntht s l F-hay MiG-phi vo tht gn
visually identify. Nu phi cng F- t xa nh th c th xc nh chm en l
MiG-v bn th vn c chngvi phm ROE g. Nhiu tnh hung cho php iu
ny trong chin tranh Vit Nam thngl qua ch th radio ca EB-66 (giai on
u Rolling Thunder) hoc EC-121 (giai on sau ca Rolling Thunder). Nn tin
ca BVR l t, vn tm tn la tngln dn th hin iu m c th
l AIM7, chng nht thit phi tri buc cho ci gi l 15 nm, tri trong xanh,
khng my, thi tit tt g y. Ni lun cu bit t cng c on 10% ca
AIM-7 cu trch trc bi trc ri, th cu bit t l trng ca AIM-9 thi l
bao nhiu khng, 15-16%, n gn cui chin tranh ci thin th cng ch gn
20%.
S chnh xc gia AIM-7 v AIM-9 nh vy cng lnh gia cc loi A-to-A
tm ngn v tm trung/xa thi ny. Nn em ci s 10% ra ni M quay tr li
dy nhau dogfight ca M cng chng ng g. M chng trnh Top Gun cng
ch cho bn Navy, khng phi bn AirForce. R rng l A-to-A kill ratio ca Navy
cng v sau cng tt hn AirForce, theo ti liu M, nhng cng
cn ch l Navy ch yu ng trn vi MiG-17, thng dn n dogfight.
Cn AirForce th ng hit-and-run ca MiG-21 nhiu hn. Nhng c kill ratio ca
AirForce, theo ti liu M, cng tt hn trc v cui chin tranh do h thng in
t tt hn. Ci dn chng 10% g ca cu ha ho lm l mt l do cho
chuyn lp li sng cannon cho F-4. Vy nhe cho c hai v ca ci cu pha
di.
Ti khng vit r rng v v kh BVR ca Mo d nn phi dy nhau dogfight.
Ti vit rng Mo tng c u th vi AIM-7 nhng cui cng th vn phi dy

nhau dogfight.
Cn th cu ni l Rules th xy dng qui g th do cu khng hiu ri. V
sao c ROE, v khng chc c bn trng my bay ch hay khng v yu t chnh
tr lin quan. Ch nu xa th m chc l ch th cng cho bn nt cu . Nn
trong qu trnh chin tranh M ngh nhiu cch c th xc nhn my bay ch
t xa v cho php tim kch n khai ha d bn thn tim kch cha visually
identify ch, nhng cch xc nhn ny c th qua EB-66 hay EC-121 y. Mt
trong nhng cch thng l qua phn tch tn hiu transponder ca MiG-hay
qua do thm radio (SIGNINT). BVR ca M pht trin cng t. Cu highlight
cu t vit: AIM-7 t khi c bn t ngoi tm 10km. sao khng hightlight nt
cu ngay sau nh. ROE l v tnh chnh tr ca chin tranh Vit Nam, ch lin
quan g chuyn pht trin tn la BVR ni chung m cu bo khng phi xy
dng n ngay t u. Lut l ni chung t rav cl do ca n, nhng ng thi
khi nhngl do mt hiu lc ca n th b lut l thi. Gn cui Rolling
Thunder kh nng IFF ca M tt hn, v chuyn visually identify b b dn. Cn
n LineBacker I v II th ch lin quan g my ROE na, lc M qu ri, th
g nghi vnl n bn c, ROE ch cn hiu
lc g, y do thay i mang tnh chnh tr .
Cn cu mun t hu chuyn cu v true BVR pht trin t trong chin tranh
Vit Nam th cng c thi. Giai on na sau 60s v u 70s l thi gian M
pht trin AIM-54, th qua nhiu my bay vi cc loi radar khc nhau, tht bi
trn F-111, sau chuyn qua AN/AWG-9 trn F14. Giai on 1971-1972, M c cho mu F-14 vo th radar v tn la gn
ng Hi. T c coi my thc phim trn Wings Channel cch yvi nm.
Nhiu yu t hi thnh true BVR capability v chng u c pht trin t
chin tranh Vit Nam l chnh, nh AWACS, IFF, ng c v u d tn la cho
AIM-7, AIM-54, cc phng php bn th ng theo radar Ch n c chuyn
tm ca AIM-7E ln n 30 kmth t cng c mi dn chng thc t
nl BVR ri, nhng t c th ng vi cu l ci y khng phi tm hiu qu.
Nhng t khng ng lBVRch c sau ny nh cu ni, nhc li l c dng
tuyt i BVR (true BVR) u c pht trin t chin tranh Vit Nam trong n
lc ca M nhm khc phc hn ch ca ROE.
Cn chuyn radar ca my ci my bay in t, cu gii i tra ra tm radar
n, nhng cho t hi nh thi nhe: cu bit EC-121 d lin tc c bao nhiu
mc tiu mt lc khng. Cu i tra i ri tip tc. Nn ni M c my bay in t
bao ph c min Bc l ch nghe theo thng tin tuyn truyn ca chng n trc
y min Nam, nu cu c mt m radio signal m ch phn tch nhiu mc
tiu c v my tnh km m gi l bao ph c min Bc th qu l qu y.
Trong c giai on chin tranh Vit Nam ch mt hai ln l EC-121 iu khin F-4
n dit MiG c, cn li th khng hiu qu g my nh AWACS by gi. Cn
na nh cu ni y my bay bay tm thp, cc th my bay in tu chc
pht hin ra. Nn ni tm radar khng vi ti mt s vng l ng m, cha k c

a hnh v thi tit min Bc gy khng t kh khn cho my my bay in t.

Nhng vn c th d mc tiu theo SIGNINT hay radar th ng - thng tin ny
thng vn Cn chuyn sn bay, nh ta c nhiu sn bay d chin b mt ngoi
cc sn bay chnh to s bt ng, ch yu cho MiG-17, cn MiG-21 th vn cn
sn bay tiu chun ny n, ci ny t nghe ch danh phi cng ta ni. Ngoi ra, ta
cn dng sn bay dc bin gii bn Trung Quc, c bit l trong giai on
LineBacker. Cn ngay c sn bay ta cng c bo v vi nhiu lp phng
khng, chng d g cho bn F-4 bay MiGCAP ngay trn sn bay m ch ta ln
nh u. M GCI radar cng gip ta khng di g m cho my bay ra khi
bunker ca my sn bay m ch ang oanh kch. Trong chin tranh ch c mt
vi ln F- ln vo gn sn bay m radar min Bc khng pht hin c, lm
thit hi vi ba chic MiG trong nhng ln (c trong Osprey v MiG-17 v
MiG-21). Lc xut kch, nu MiG bay thp na th chng nhn ra cho n lc
MiG tip cn gn F- ri. l cha k u chin tranh, ROE khng cho nh
SAMs v sn bayv s cht chuyn gia Nga, Trung Quc. My ci lut b b
dn u tin l vi SAM ri sau l sn bay. Nhng cng ch ra l giai
on u vic dng tn la tm xa khng mang nhiu ngha, vy thi. n giai
on cui th h thng in t v AIM-7 M tt hn ri c l cng khng cn vo
gn sn bay bn MiG mi xut kch.
vt v phi phn tch v suy on, ton c ll ca HP.
Cn chuyn bi vit HP , t vo y c bi vit bi, t c nh nhng g
hay thi, cn t khng quan tm chuyn ging bi vit ca c th thnh vin no.
Nn t chng nh gi lm g, hi u, ai rnh m i nh gi thnh vin khc
kiu bao ng th. Khi no HP hay (mt trong s cc) cu thnh v nhn g g
t s ch hn. Ngoi ra th t c vi ba nguyn tc t theo kh st, nh
freedom of speech y chng hn.
Cn cu kqndvn , tu ni g chuyn F-105 khng chin t u nn quyn
t gii thiu khng xc ng cho ci g g cu ang quan tm u. Ch c iu
on trong Clashes khen F-105 tr trn qu, khng nh gi ng n, c bit
on li do mt phi cng F-4 vit. Cu kho th ct n i vy thi, b nguyn
vo lm gim gi tr bi cu ang dch thi ch g.
Cn cu kqndvn ny, cu ni l Lut l lut, ni vy tt nht cu ngh dch
cho ri, cu ang vi phm bn quyn nghim trng y. My k m photo hay
scan sch gc c quyn n x mt, th loim dch ra ngn ng khc mang li gi
tr thng mi mi n x mi y. T ni v chuyn scan hay photo chng ai
rnh bt cu cu bt yu bng va kiu con gi nhm em t
liu n cho anh em nhanh hn thi, cn nu cu lim khit khng phm lut
-Lut l lut. th tt nht l ng topic li cho ri.
Cn cu panzerlehr, ci g y h cu: Bc khng c th gi hu chuyn anh
em th cng nh a s nhng ngi trn ny thi. Cu ang ni vi t hay l ni
vi ai lc y. Nu l vi ngi khc th thi t b qua, t cng cha lm cm
n mc , cn vi t th cu chng bit g v t ni cu .

Cn chuyn khch quan th chc chn l n khc vi s tht, nhng iu vit

ra c th sai do ngi vit dng phng php lp lun sai nhng cth ngi
vit khch quan y ch, ngha l khng t nhin thm bt, hay che i nhng
thng tin quan trng trong cch lp lun ca mnh. iu c cu v t khng bit l
Marshall Mitchel c che i thng tin g khng, hay c dng cch lp lun no c
th nghe logic nhng sai vi s tht m ng ta bit. V th m t a ra dn
chng trong quyn t cu hi tc gi c g khc khng thi. T ni l
li vit c v khch quan hn, t khng ni l quyn khch quan hn nh cc
cu ni, ai m bit tc gi.
Cn cu ny c quyn Clashes m khng tm ra on , on gn
cui quyn sch (Dialogue g t khng nh r), ch Marshall Mitchel tho lun
v Top Ace ca ta cn sng sau chin tranh sao , ch mt trang thi, cui trang
ng ta c ni viu , tra index ace c th ra. T chng hi u i lc li
sch kim on cho cu u, xin li . C nhn t th t nghi ng tnh xc
thc thng tin ca Marshall Mitchel sau khi t c quyn 11 Days of Christmas
Bombing ca ng ta, v cng li nhng thng tin chnh thc mang tnh tuyn
truyn ca M v LineBacker 2, ch g hn, lm tm ra nghi ng quyn
Clashes nt. Nhng ch l nh ca t.
Cn tu cng kch g cu panzerlehr v freedom of speech u lin quan
n HP um cu phi ni thm ny n - t nghe mi trong my bi trc ca
cu ri, c trng g ha cuc khng nh? Khng thy bi trc t cho cu on
u v on th ba r rt th ah. H h, cn xem ra hm nay cu panzerlehr
ci nhiu nh, bao ng cht, khng bit cu c li ang anticonstipation khng , m sao khe vo y my bay, tu chin hay antisubmarines g
Ci ny bc rt nhm. Ngy u n M ti cng ra hng photo chp my
trang ca mt cun sch. ng ch tim a cho ti mt t giy ca cnh st
pht cho h, trong hng dn v lut. Nu bn ch photo mt cun sch vi
mc ch hc tp v khng photo trn vn mt chng th hon ton l ng lut!
ng c nil gio s chm chc - ti cha thy ai chm chc trng ti
c. S chm chc, cchng l cho php sinh vin khng c sch tham kho
cng c, cn sch text book th bt buc phi mua.
Ni thm v chuyn discrimination. Bn thn ti phn i chuyn ny. Nhng
nn nh M l t t do ngn lun. Nu mun bn hon ton c quyn by t
s th ght mt chng tc no trong trng (ng nhin s gy kh chu).
Trng ni bn nu v th m ui hc th bn hon ton c quyn kin h v
vi phm quyn t do ngn lun ca bn. Ti bit r chuyn ny v tng lm nhn
vin trong appartment life ca trng. Chng ti c train rt k v
discrimination. V khi mt sinh vin thu nh ca trng th hk hp ng,
trong ghi r l trng khng chp nhn disrimination act, do nu ai dn
biu ng racist ca ch hn, th chng ti c trch nhim n ni cho h bit
iu ny, v gii thch l nu mun trng ra biu trng racist h c quyn khng

thu nh ca trng na v thu nh ngoi (ch khng c chuyn ui hc

u -khi nhp hc ko ai k hp ng g c). Trngti cngl trng phn i
dicrimination (against race, age, sex, sexual orientation, religious, political
believe.), tuy vy nu c sinh vin pht biu discriminate trong trng th
trng cng khng thui c. Gio s th l chuyn khc (c l do khi h k
hp ng phi ng vi chuyn ny).
on 30 pht Vietnam Airwar trn knh History sng nay a ra thng tin M
thu c nh th ny: -Xung quanh H ni v Hi phng c 250 b phng SAM KQ Vit nam ngoi cc sn bay Ni bi, Gia lm, Kin An, Kp, Bch Mai, Phc
yn, cn c thm nhiu sn bay khc, c bit h s dng 6 sn bay ca Trung
quc dc theo bin gii. (ci ny bc ti 921 xc nhn, ta a phn ln my
bay sang TQ giai on chin tranh trnh bom). -KQ M claim t l victory l 2
to 1 trong mt chin dch g y ti nghe khng r.
Bc Vit claim 4000 my bay. US estimate ~1,000. -200 pilotes down
c cu thot bn trong lnh th Bc Vit. 600 b captured (? c th mnh nghe
nhm).
Tng cng trn lnh th c hai min M mt ~3,750 my bay trong
chin u v tai nn. S trc thng b mt l ~5,000. 8000 airmen killed.
Kt phim: Strategically, the air war failed.
Trong phim cng c cnh guncamera Mig17 b bn ri m trc kia mt s
anh em cho rng l gi:
Ta ch nn tranh lun xoay quanh ch thi. a my ci v copyright vo
ci nhau lm g. Cc thng tin ca kqndvn a trng vi phim VN cuc chin
10.000 ngy ang pht v c cnh chic MiG17 b bn chy cng c chiu. y
l cnh m ngy trc HP ni l k xo in
nh . Ti th ngh l trn cc phim ti liu lch s ca M mang chiu ton th
gii nn nu dng k xo th cc chuyn gia phim nh pht hin ra ngi ta s
chi nh tt nc vo mt.
Ti va bn va li nn ci g c th c thi ch b cng ra dch ri post l
hi kh nn nh kqndvn ng khuyn khch lm. Nu phn bnh lun c nhn
cn tranh lun hy ni. Cn khng cc bn ng nm hi ngh khng tt.
Cu ta r rng c trong u ci suy ngh l HP s vo lng m cu ta, v
cu ta ph bin ci suy ngh c nhn cho c box.
V sau th bc HP rt nhit tnh chng t cho c box thy rng bc
kqndvn c l do lo trc nh vy.
Cu hairscary nn ch rng t chng bao ng ch ra c th rng cu
kqndvn c d ng hay khng vi th g . T khng quan tm v chuyn . T
ch quan tm n chuyn thc thi freedom of speech m thi, bt k l thnh
vin no. T d cu hairscary em chuyn dng ca cu kqndvn ra bin minh
cho hnh ng ng th ok, cn nu bin minh cho ci g khc ci th gi l

bao ng y.
Ti cng ch bao ng n mc ch ra rng cm HP vo lng m khng c
ngha l cm freedom of speech, v rng t chuyn cm HP nng cao thnh cm
freedom of speech ri bin n thnh mt l do lun ra nhng bu bi g
giu ct ngi ta cng chng hay g hn ci chuyn bao ng ca ti.
Tr li chuyn k thut vi cu hairscary,
Chuyn k thut th ti km lm. Ci ti mun lm khng phi l ni chuyn k
thut, m da vo n tm hiu xem ch no c xo nu nh th no.
Nhng t nu ra cu thy rng AIM-7 n ch sau AIM-9 thi trong chin
tranh Vit Nam.
Cn ti th mun thy ci qu tm nhn so vi ci trong tm nhn.
M bn AIM-7 t 5 km n 10km trng, my bay F-chng qun v g c th
sao gi l dogfight.
Nhng m l trong tm nhn. Bc c v ci 10% ca AIM-7E, th chc
bc cng c v chuyn ci ny b ku l qung thi gian arm ca n lu
qu, nn n bay mi mi arm c, 1500 mt hay 1,5 nm g , ti nh khng r.
L do v sao ngi ta quan tm ti iu ny nh?
Cn chuyn BVR l th no. C hai nh ngha cho n, tng i v tuyt i
(usually, referred to as true BVR). Tng i ngha l tim kch c th xc nh
mc tiu qua radar hay phng php no khc v bn m khng visually identify
theo ngha thc nht- bng mt, c th v hm no thi tit xu, khng nhn ra
mc tiu ch 7km chng hn. Nhng ci 7km chng th no l dogfight nh,
chng tm li g ht nhe, ci l BVR tng i, chng th m ngi ta phi
dng ch true BVR phn bit, cu ch ni true BVR, nhng my th cn li
chng th l dogfight c c.
Hay t nh bui m chng hn, bay ngay ng sau nhng vn khng nhn
thy g bng mt thng? Ti ch ni true BVR, th nhng phi chng bc ang
davoci 5 hay 7hay 10 km y ni rng nhng qu AIM-7 bn i CTVN l
BVR tng i? Bao nhiu ln Mo n khi thi tit xu khin khng nhn ra mc
tiu 7km, v bao nhiu ln ta ln nh trong iu kin ? Bao nhiu qu AIM-7
c phng i khi khng nhn thy mc tiu m ch da vo radar? Bc c
cc chuyn v khng chin CTVN chc cng hay thy ci on mt bn nh
ln vi ta, cn bn khc th ln ra bay vng ngoi xa v tm c hi phng tn la
vo my bay ta t bn ngoi. Th ngi ta xy dng ci k thut qu tm nhn
cho BVR tuyt i hay tng i? Trong mi lin quan ti thc t khng chin
VN.
Nhc li t ni rng k thut BVR c xy dng t giai on chin tranh Vit
Nam, iu ny hon ton ng, cu hairscary chem true BVR hiu qu hay
khng ngay trong chin tranh Vit Nam ra bt b, t khng ni iu ny, thy ch
xy dng r to ca t

nhe.
Xy dng y c mt ngha rt rng. Ni r hnlv n rt rng nn tr
thnh mp m. V nu ni th th ti c th ni k thut BVR c xy dng t
trc CTVN. V d nh t khi ngi ta lm ra AIM-7. Mt trong nhng mc ch
ngi ta lm ra ci ny v radar iu khin n l nng tm bn, v tm ca
AIM-7 v radar, trn l thuyt, th cho php xy dng ci BVR, tuyt i hay
tng i. Khi lm ra nth hn l ngi M phi xy dng ci l thuyt khng
chin vi n ri, v hn nhin l mang ra tp vi nhau ri, Salt Lake hay
u .
ROE th lin quan n chuyn visually identify enemy aircraft. Nu phi cng Ft xa nh th c th xc nh chm en l MiG-v bn th vn c chng
vi phm ROE g. Nhiu tnh hung cho php iu ny trong chin tranh Vit Nam
thng l qua ch th radio ca EB-66 (giai on u Rolling Thunder) hoc EC121 (giai on sau ca Rolling Thunder). Nn tin ca BVR l t, vn
tm tn la tng ln dn th hin iu m c th l AIM-7, chng nht thit
phi tri buc cho ci gi l 15 nm, tri trong xanh, khng my, thi tit tt g y.
EB-66 hnh nh l my bay cho Electronic Warfare th phi, gy nhiu radar.
N lm sao nhn ra Mig v ch th cho my bay ca Mo? Vng, tin l ,
ch cha phi xy dng giai on . Khng tri buc cho ci 15 nm (ci range
ny l bc a ra y nh), Mo ch to ra ci ROE v ta th tng phn hn ch
ci qu tm nhn y. V phi chng nn xem xt ti thc t chin u VN.
Nn em ci s 10% ra ni M quay tr li dy nhau dogfight ca M cng
chng ng g.
a, ti ni th h?
Ci dn chng 10% g ca cu ha ho lml mt l do cho chuyn lp li
sng cannon cho F-4. Vy nhe cho c hai v ca ci cu pha di.
Ci dn chng y lm r mc thnh cng ca loi tn la ny, v rng
ci bng ca bc khng ni ln c hiu qu ca n, qu tm nhn hay khng
qu tm nhn. Trong thc t chin u t khi c dng ci mc qu tm nhn
m t l c 10% th nu dng qu tm nhn t l s l bao nhiu?
Ti khng vit r rng v v kh BVR ca Mo d nn phi dy nhau dogfight.
Ti vit rng Mo tng c u th vi AIM-7 nhng cui cng th vn phi dy
nhau dogfight.
Bc c li bi trc bi c cu trn .
Cn th cu ni l Rules th xy dng qui g th do cu khng hiu ri.
Vng, khng chc l ti c hiu hay khng. Bc vit trc y l rule phi
Visual ID th bc cng nn hiu xem ci tm ID y l qu tm nhn hay khng
qu tm nhn, v ri n lin quan th no ti ci xy dng k thut qu tm nhn.
Nn trong qu trnh chin tranh M ngh nhiu cch c th xc nhn my

bay ch t xa v cho php tim kch n khai had bn thn tim kch cha
visually identify ch, nhng cch xc nhn ny c th qua EB-66 hay EC-121
y. Mt trong nhng cch thng l qua phn tch tn hiu transponder ca
MiG- hay qua do thm radio (SIGNINT).
Th bao nhiu ln bn ny ch ng cho Mo bn my bay ta t qu tm
nhn mxy dng ci k thut khng chin hin i? Transponder l ci g th?
Cu highlight cu t vit: AIM-7 t khi c bn t ngoi tm 10km. sao
khng hightlight nt cu ngay sau nh.
Highlight lm g? cho thy rng mt s t tn la c bn t ngoi
10km l xy dng ci qu tm nhn y sao?
ROE l v tnh chnh tr ca chin tranh Vit Nam, ch lin quan g chuyn
pht trin tn la BVR ni chung m cu bo khng phi xy dng n ngay t
u.
Nhc li ln na l ci ROE ny n hn ch ci xy dng ci qu tm nhn.
Gn cui Rolling Thunder kh nng IFF ca M tt hn, v chuyn visually
identify b b dn. Cn n LineBacker I v II th ch lin quan g my ROE na,
lc M qu ri, th g nghi vn ln bn c, ROE ch cn hiu lc g, y
do thay i mang tnh chnh
tr .
Vng, Mo sau ny c IFF. Nhng ci g nghi l bn th cng i xa vi qu tm
nhn.
Cn cu mun t hu chuyn cu v true BVR pht trin t trong chin tranh
Vit Nam th cng c thi. Giai on na sau 60s v u 70s l thi gian M
pht trin AIM-54, th qua nhiu my bay vi cc loi radar khc nhau, tht bi
trn F-111, sau chuyn qua AN/AWG-9 trn F-14. Giai on 1971-1972, M c
cho mu F-14 vo th radar v tn la gn ng Hi. T c coi my thc phim
trn Wings Channel cch y vi nm.
Vng, pht trin, th cxy dng khng? AIM-54 c xy dng th no t
CTVN?
Nhiu yu t hi thnh true BVR capability v chng u c pht trin t
chin tranh Vit Nam l chnh, nh AWACS, IFF, ng c v u d tn la cho
AIM-7, AIM-54, cc phng php bn th ng theo radar
Ch khng phi l k thut khng chin qu tm nhn c xy dng trong
CTVN ?
Nhng t khng ng l BVR ch c sau ny nh cu ni, nhc li l c dng
tuyt i BVR (true BVR) u c pht trin t chin tranh Vit Nam trong n
lc ca M nhm khc phc hn ch ca ROE.
V ci ROE c sinh ra mt phn l do khng phn bit c u l ch,

u l ta. Ti ch ni rng khi nim BVR lc cha c. Sau ny th ngi ta

mi dng ci cm t ny.
Cn chuyn radar ca my ci my bay in t, cu gii i tra ra tm radar
n, nhng cho t hi nh thi nhe: cu bit EC-121 d lin tc c bao nhiu
mc tiu mt lc khng. Cu i tra i ri tip tc. Nn ni M c my bay in t
bao ph c min Bc l ch nghe theo thng tin tuyn truyn ca chng n trc
y min Nam, nu cu c mt m radio signal m ch phn tch nhiu mc
tiu c v my tnh km m gi l bao ph c min Bc th qu l qu y.
Trong c giai on chin tranh Vit Nam ch mt hai ln l EC-121 iu khin F-4
n dit MiG c, cn li th khng hiu qu g my nh AWACS by gi.
Ti ba ra ci tm radar y. M ci thng tin tuyn truyn y, by gi n vn
tuyn truyn. M ti vit ri, chuyn hai ci b mt th cn phi bn nhiu.
M EC-121 dng radar d c mt mc tiu thi th c dn ngcho F4 ti
ch mc tiu c khng? V nu ci ch mc tiu tnh c li c hn1
mc tiu th cng tt ng khng?
Cn na nh cu ni y my bay bay tm thp, cc th my bay in
tu chc pht hin ra. Nn ni tm radar khng vi ti mt s vng l ng
m, cha k c a hnh v thi tit min Bc gy khng t kh khn cho my
my bay in t.
Vng, nhng hai ci Mig-17 bay cao 7000 mt.
Nhng vn c th d mc tiu theo SIGNINT hay radar th ng -thng tin
ny thng vn vt v phi phn tch v suy on, ton c l l ca HP.
Bc i, ci SIGNINT n l ci g m gip dn ng c F-4 ti ng ni c
Mig 17 th. Th th ci SIGNINT n d ra ht t cc contv ri, vc l n sau
1972 th mi xy dn li VPAF. V ci radar th ngl n ly tnh hiu tu ra?
Nh rng bc cho thy thit bin t trn km th no.
Cn chuyn sn bay, nh ta c nhiu sn bay.
Vng, t ra ci xut kch ngay trong trn a l nh th.
Cn chuyn bi vit HP , t vo y c bi vit bi, t c nh nhng g
hay thi, cn t khng quan tm chuyn ging bi vit ca c th thnh vin no.
Nn t chng nh gi lm g, hi u, ai rnh m i nh gi thnh vin khc
kiu bao ng th. Khi no HP hay (mt trong s cc) cu thnh v nhn g g
t s ch hn. Ngoi ra th t c vi ba nguyn tc t theo kh st, nh
freedom of speech y chng hn.
Vng, tng bc thch ph ci chuyn khch quan. y th khng ty no
mt cch khch quan t no. M li bao ng ri. Bc bao ng ci chuyn
freedom of speech lm g. Mod lo chuyn y. M ri c cm c HP u, ng
khng. HP vn c freedom m speech nh thng.
T thy HP vit hay qu, nh phi i kim tra li thng tin th ra nh th ny:
Trong khng chin trn bu tri Bc Vit th kt thc l thm bi ca tim kch M:

Ch tnh ring MIG 21 v F4 th: T nm 1966-1972: Fantom F4 bn rng 54 MIG21, cn MIG-21 bn c 103 Fantom F4. l cha k n F4 t hn my ln
MIG21. Mt thng tin na l cui chin tranh Bc Vit nam ch cn 39 b phng
tn la. Tng s tnh n nm 72 thi VNam c 95 b phng v 7658 qu tn la
c Lin-X cung cp. ( Lc sp ht
n ri ) V khng chin ti chin tranh Triu Tin bc HP ni ng y. T c
s liu. Qun M mt nhiu my bay hn. KHNG QUN VIT NAM ANH
HNG.
V sau th bc HP rt nhit tnh chng t cho c box thy rng bc
kqndvn c l do lo trc nh vy.
C g u c theo nguyn tc o c th chng th ly kt qu bin minh
phng tin. M c bit l y bin minh vt trc thi gian c kt qu, c
chc rng HP s ni vy cng chng c l do ch ra c th cm HP ny n, cn
cng c th ci on cm lm HP bc vo chi bi sau th sao, cu ta c
quyn phn ng trc vic cm cu ta vy ch.
Ti cng ch bao ng n mc ch ra rng cm HP vo lng m khng c
nghal cm freedom of speech.
Lp li vn ban u cu , cu nh ngha freedom of speech trong phm vi
no thi, nu ci li em ci lut x hi ra ni li th lm n c li bi t th no
l lut ng n. Cnl phm vi tuyt i th t cu hiu. Cn t ch ra rt r
nhng t ng k ph v ngi lm ca cu kqndvn ri, cu ta chng phi
quan trng ha chuyn cu ta ang lm l g, khng cn thit cu li vo y
nhc li c ch giu hay khng, dn chng y nh.
Tr li chuyn k thut vi cu hairscary,
Chuyn k thut th ti km lm. Ci ti mun lm khng phi l ni chuyn k
thut, m da vo n tm hiu xem ch no c xo nu nh th no.
Chng ai quan tm n cu mun g, t ch dng cu dn bi t.
Nhng m l trong tm nhn.
Nhng chng phi dogfight, xin nhc li. Cn u d tn la bt u bt mc
tiu mt cch lin tc, hoc tn la bt u bay theo radar beam iu khin ca
my bay mt cch n nh: t khong 3,000 ft tr ln.
Ti ch ni true BVR, th nhng phi chng bc ang da vo ci 5 hay 7hay
10 km y ni rng nhng qu AIM-7 bn i CTVN l BVR tng i? Bao
nhiu ln Mo n khi thi tit xu khin khng nhn ra mc tiu 7km, v bao
nhiu ln ta ln nh trong iu kin ? Bao nhiu qu AIM-7 c phng i
khi khng nhn thy mc tiu m ch da vo radar?
Mt ln na t nhc l khng ni n tnh hiu qu ca BVR trong giai
on chin tranh Vit Nam, chng cho cu m dn chng v true BVR ln u
trong chin tranh vng Vnh ln mt l g. T ni rt r, BVR pht trin t trong

chin tranh Vit Nam ra, theo ngha chung nht v tnh tin ca vic pht trin tn
la khng i khng. Chng t bin g n ngay true BVR nh cu em ra
bt b HP. M ngay c ci tuyt i hay tng i t cng mi ch ra cho cu
thy n khc dogfight g y thi, chng lin quan g quay li hi pht trin BVR
tng i hay tuyt i t chin tranh Vit Nam. Vic pht trin BVR xy dng
trn nn tn nhiu yu t k thut khc, v giai on chin tranh Vit Nam ng
gp nhiu th cho iu nh AWACS (EC121 u tin), IFF, ng c tn la
ny n,
V d nh t khi ngi ta lm ra AIM-7. Mt trong nhng mc ch ngi ta
lm ra ci ny v radar iu khin n l nng tm bn, v tm ca AIM-7 v
radar, trn l thuyt, th cho php xy dng ci BVR, tuyt i hay tng i.
T ni nh qua chuyn vi cu v chuyn tm hiu qu ca AIM-7, nu
cu mun li ra li, th xin tha rng tm cng b ca AIM-7E nh ni 30km,
nu cu mun trn l thuyt th l tuyt i ri y. V c trn thc t, cng c th
gi l BVR tuyt i ri y. Nu ni theo tnh hiu qu, th l tng i nh
t ni khi cp n effective range. Chng thi t ni lBVR t
trong chin tranh Vit Nam ri y, cu c ln qun vi ci tnh hiu qu hay
khng ca cu bt b v l.
Cn ci cu ni n l China Lake ni pht trin AIM-9 u tin v sau th
AIM-7 nhiu ln.
EB-66 hnh nh l my bay cho Electronic Warfare th phi, gy nhiu radar.
N lm sao nhn ra Mig v ch th cho my bay ca Mo?
EB-66 thng c bit n nhiu l my bay gy nhiu nhng thc t n c
hai chc nng: ECM (Electronic CounterMeasures) v ELINT (Electronic
Intelligence). Vi chc nng ELINT, n c kh nng thu thp thng tin t IFF ca
MiG
v
Fansong
radar
ca
SAM-2.
Link
n:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/vietnam/469th/p45.htm
Ci transponder t ni n chnh l IFF ca MiG thng cho tn hiu gt hn
IFF ca F-v hay b d ra bi cc my bay in t. C cu kqndvn dch quyn
, ri s n on v my th ny, c th cu xem.
Vng, tin l , ch cha phi xy dng giai on .
Ni mi cu ny, BVR da trn nhiu yu t (tn la, u d, h thng in
t, IFF), v nhng yu t xy dng t chin tranh Vit Nam. Ni thun v tn
la th cu c th dng n ci tm 30km t a ri . Ni chuyn hiu qu l
chuyn khc, xy dng ln ri ci tin dn n hiu qu nh ngy nay ch.
Khng tri buc cho ci 15 nm (ci range ny l bc a ra y nh).
T chng c quyn no t ra ci tm 15nm cu. N nm trong nh
ngha th no l tm cho true BVR, cu c bi trc ca t y ch.
Bc c li bi trc bi c cu trn .

Cu xem li cch lp cu ca bc vy.

Nhng on tip theo ca cu li vn hiu qu, AIM-7, AIM-9, ROE, blah,
blah, blah, xin tham kho li bi t vit. T chng lm cm c phi nhc li vi
cu th ny.
Nhc li ln na l ci ROE ny n hn ch ci xy dng ci qu tm nhn.
Nhc li ln na ROE lin quan n vn chnh tr giai on u chin tranh
Vit Nam, khng lin quan vic pht trin BVR, m thc ra nhng hn ch ROE
mang y thc y vic pht trin nhiu k thut to thnh true BVR capability,
nh AWACS, IFF,
Vng, Mo sau ny c IFF. Nhng ci g nghi l bn th cng i xa vi qu tm
nhn.
Chng cn cu phi vn vo t ng. Ci g nghi vn th phi c d ra
trc ri, cn chuyn bn sau th ty thuc tnh hung c th, ni vy thy
ROE khng cn hiu qu giai on sau, cu logic suy lun hay ch cut-&paste.
Vng, pht trin, th c xy dng khng? AIM-54 c xy dng th no t
CTVN?
Ni th cu thy AIM-54 hin i sau ny c xy dng t giai on
. Nhng thng k ca AIM-7 khng t th nhiu s c xem xt khi pht trin
AIM-54, c bit l nhng mu u ca AIM-54 l pht trin trn phng php
bn th ng nh AIM-7. Cn ni v BVR th nh ni mi qu AIM-7 l
t chng minh ri, cuc b ra ngoi AIM-54 trong cng giai on t vn ng
m, vic g nh nht th ny.
Ch khng phi l k thut khng chin qu tm nhn c xy dng trong
CTVN ?
Trong hay t hiu theo c hai u c, progressive developments
throughout our history, ok? Cu mun ni xa hn v tnh t on trong lch s
th l chuyn khc ri, lc t chng ngi y ni chuyn vi cu lm g.
M EC-121 dng radar d c mt mc tiu thi th c dn ng cho F4 ti
ch mc tiu c khng?
Dn ng c, trong chin tranh Vit Nam c ivi ln EC-121 dn F-4
n dit MiG - ln u l thng 10 nm 1967 g , hiu nm na th nh kiu GCI,
nhng hn ch nhiu vo thi , AWACS thi nay th khc.
Vng, nhng hai ci Mig-17 bay cao 7000 mt.
Tang ni chung v tm radar chung ca my bay in t ca M thi. Cn
on HP ni th
cng khng r tht, t c nu my ci ELINT hay SIGINT l nhng kh nng
khc c th cho iu HP ni , thu thp thng tin in t, in m, radio, hay

cc tn hiu c trng theo radar v phn tch vy thi. T khng r ELINT c lin
h n cc thit b tnh bo in t m M th xung lnh th min Bc na
khng, bc no bit ch gip.
Vng, tng bc thch ph ci chuyn khch quan. y th khng ty no
mt cch khch quan t no. M li bao ng ri. Bc bao ng ci chuyn
freedom of speech lm g. Mod lo chuyn y. M ri c cm c HP u, ng
khng. HP vn c freedom m speech nh thng.
T theo nguyn tc ca t m tham gia cuc tranh lun ny cu , chng bao
ng g cho k no khc. T l mt thnh vin ca box, c th xem l mt
stakeholder vy, th iu g khng ng th t gp l chuyn hin nhin thi,
t ni l bt k chuyn lin quan n thnh vin no, bao ng g. Chuyn cm
HP y chng hn, cm c th vy khng ng, vi phm nguyn tc freedom
of speech, m ri c enforce c ci cm u, thnh ra t l ngay t ban
u chng nn a ci cm vo ylm g ri, ch thm nc ci.
Cn cu panzerlehr, cu xem li bi y ca cu c on no cp n
chuyn t khng thi gian dch ch danh quyn F-105 u m t phi hiu
nh cu ni gi l t khng c thi gi hu chuyn anh em ngha l cho quyn
. Ci t thy gn nht trc l g ct mo v bu bi. Cu phi hiu
chng ai c thi phn tch on suy ngh ca cu qua m t ng vy. M t gii
thiu quyn cu nu thch th tm m c hiu r hn v F-105 ch g
u. M ngay thi im cu c trong u l t khng c thi gian hu
chuyn anh em ri, vy c v on khng?
Cn li ci khch quan , cu khng thy s khc bit gia li vit khch
quan v bn cht ca quyn sch l khch quan . Ni nh cc cu l sch
khch quan th ni v tc gi khch quan ri, v th t mi nu ra mt s dn
chngni v s nghi ng t c i vi tc gi. Cng nh cu thi t c sch l
tham kho, nhng t chng ch tham kho khng, m tham kho rt ra t nhiu
s tht m cn nhn thc ch, ch khng th t chng rnh u c chi.
M sch khch quan hay khng lun l vn tng i, trng h dy c mt
kha v vic phn tch tnh khch quan ca mt ngun thng tin no cu . V
da trn nhiu yu t lm, nh nh xut bn, nm, tc gi, gc gc tc gi, tc
gi c conflicting interests hay khng, phng php suy lun dng cho quyn
sch, vn vn v vn vn. Ci cu ni v phng php suy lun ch l mt trong
s nhiu nhng th cho vic nh gi khch quan hay khng. Cha g t thy
hai cu nhy ngay vo ni khch quan, t mi ni chng xung, c nh kiu
tham kho nh chuyn ngy xa ngy xa, t nu ln mt vi dn chng lin
quan n s tht v tc gi t cu hi v tnh khch quan ca tc gi y.
Cu c th ngh l cu bit sch cng ch tham kho, khng tin g nh kinh
thnh (ni thm y t v thn), nhng cu ngh xem hai cu cng ni n khch
quan th, ngi khng c bn gc bit g nghe vy tin, t ni chng xung l
chuyn cn i expectations li thi.
Cn h h:

Ni tht vi bc l em lc ny khng ci c m ang lo qung ln y ny

cho nn cng ch cha c constirpation ca em . Nu nhng ngi thiu
chun xc kiu ny lm k thut th qu l tai ho cho ngnh KTVN, ai m cn
dm t chn ln 1 chic my bay tu b do loi ngi ny ch ra!
Constipation ng khng nh, khng phi constirpation. Cu ny li quan trng
vn ri, cu c s mng chng li nhng k thiu chun xc g , nghe to tt
qu, m li dn n to bn. Box ta va gip kin thc k thut nhng cng
cn l sn chi cho nhng ngi c am m qun s, bt k trnh th no.
Nn ai cng clc cth ni sai vy, c g th tranh lun ra sai ng th no, again
nothing personal. Nn nhn cu ng ni l t thng minh hay g , t cng
bnh thng nh bt c ai khc
Em tip tc dich v nhng trn khng chin, y, c mt vi kin ring ca
em s c g nghing. y l nhng g m ngi M v ngi nc ngoi ni
v chin tranh. H cng tng bc M, nhng khng n ni nh M thng 10:1
trong chin tranh Triu Tin hay m t my bay nm bom F-105 thn sm nh
mt hung thn trn khng. -Phi cng M khng c rn luyn nhiu trn thc t.
iu ny l tnh hnh chung ca chin tranh. Khi tr li, nguyn nhn ln nht lm
Westmorland thua trn b l g, i Tng Gip nh ta ni, hu ht lnh M
cha quen chin trng. Ngi M th ch trch ng West l mt tng ti, ch
lm cho 1/10 s lnh M Min Nam l tham chin, cn u tha vi vn. Phi
cng M cng vy. -Khng qun M khng nh cc trung tm SAM v s trng
chuyn gia nc ngoi. Bc no c hi k ca Macnamara thy, vic ny ch
yu do Mc trnh thng vong cho khng qun M. ng nh vy, giai on sau,
khi tn cng SAM, khng qun M thit hi tng vt.
Ngy 23 thng 8 nm 1967, mt cuc nm bom min Bc Vit Nam na li
din ra.
Da vo i qun ng o ca my bay M (40m ybay thn sm
Thunderchiefs F-105 mang bom v phng tin chng SAM radar, my bay F-4D
khng chin h tng), i bay ca mt F-4 , Phi cng Charles R. Tyler v WSO
Ronald M. Sittner 555th TFS/8th TFW, cm thy ch quan. C v nh MIG khng
xut hin na sau cc thng li ca 8th TFW F-4 u thng 6 v cui thng 5.
Bng nhin, Tyler nghe thy mt phi cng F-105 (Elmo Baker) ht tong ln trng
n MIG v nhy d.Taylor tm kim tn trn lt t ngt ny trong khi s hong
lon khng khip bng pht khp i bay. t nhin, Taylor mt iu khin chic
my bay, bt my phng. Treo l lng trn d, Taylor nhn thy by bay bng
chy v ri vo mt khu rng hoang, nhng khng nhn thy Ronald M. Sittner
thot khi my bay, WSO cht ngay khi my bay trng tn la. Taylor, Baker b
bt ngay khi h xung t. C hai my bay u trng tn la tm nhit R-3S Atoll
bn t 2 my bay MiG-21PF Fishbeds, trung on khng qun 921 do hai phi
cng Nguyn Nht Chiu v Nguyn Vn Cc li. Thm 2 F-4 na ri ngy hm
m khng MIG no mt, mt ngy thng trng ca VNAF. Trong khi ch c hai
phi cng M trong chin tranh ny tr thnh ace (Steve Ritchie ca khng qun

v Randy Cunningham ca hi qun) th 16 phi cng ca VNAF(Vietnamese

Peoples Air Force, Khng Qun Nhn Dn Vit Nam) t c danh
hiu vinh quang . (Ace pilot, phi cng t, ch bi ca cc lc lng khng
qun, thng 5 trn tr ln). Trn chin k trn thm mt chin thng na cho
Nguyn Vn Cc, phi cng thng nhiu nht (9): 7 my bay v 2 my bay khng
ngi li. Ngi M cng nhn 6 trong s 7 chic my bay b Cc h v, theo s
liu M Cc thm mt trn thng na: F-102 bay bi Wallace Wiggins (KIA) ngy
3 thng ging 1968 (theo M, cn trn ny, theo em, c l do phi cng Ngn, ci
ny khng hiu bc TS c lc li c khng???) Vi 7trn thng, Cc tr thnh
phi cng nh ca chin tranh ny vi c hai bn,v 2ace M ch va t yu cu,
5 pht. Ti sao con s li chnh lch v pha VNAF, ti sao, khi m VNAF c lc
lng rt nh???? Nm 1965 VNAF ch c 36 MIG-17 v khong phi cng
cht lng cao, n nm 1968, h cng ch c 180 MIG v 72 phi cng cht
lng cao. Trong khi a, h i mt vi 200 F-4 cc loi ca 8th, 35th and 366th
TFW, khong 140 Thunderchiefs Thn Sm F-105 ca 355th ca 388th TFW, Vo
khang 100 my bay ca Hi QUn trn trm Yankee vnh Bc B, cha k
cc my bay tr chin EB-6Bs, HH-53s, Skyraiders. Ti sao vi lc lng nh
nh vy m VNAF li thng. Ngi M th khng t i, h bo nh th n gin
l do phi cng Bc Vit bn rng hn phi cng M, h khng v nh sau 100
chuyn bay chin u, v hang trn nh ca h. Phi cng M nhanh chng
thc hin chuyn chin u v tr v hun luyn, ch huy hay bay th. Mt s
quay li chin u, nhng ch l nhng ngoi l. Bao nhiu chin thut c
hai bn s dng, tht kh m bit c. Mt vi l do na nu ra gii thch s
thng li ca VNAF. M khng nh cc trung tm v s trng chuyn gia Nga v
Tu. VNAF li my bay nh chn vi s h tr tuyt vi t mt t. MIG nm
ch t v tr thun li nh phc kch. MIG tn cng i hnh F t nhiu hng
(nh MIG-17 nh thng trc v MIG-21 tn cng ui theo). Sau khi bn h vi
F vbuc cc F-105 nm bom sm cho nh i u th MIg khng i s tr
a, MIG ch dng cc nht kim nhanh gn. C v nh t cuc chin tranh du
kch trn khng thch hp. NHng chin thut i khi li c s gip ca
my bay M, nh l cui nm 1966, cc F-105 thn sm ngy ngy i theo mt
con ng, mt thi im v dng mt cch lin lc. Cc phi cng Bc Vit quen
ng lm tht 14 F-105 thn sm m khng mt MIG no trc khi iu kt
thc bi trn nh Bolo vi 7 MIG ri ngy 2-1-1967. Mt nguyn nhn na l v
hun luyn, vo gia nhng nm 1960, cc phi cng M tp trung s dng tn
la trong khng chin, nh ltn la radio horming v hng ngoi AIM-7 Sparrow
v IR AIM-9. Nhng ngi M li qun rng, k thut ca phi cng trong bung
li quan trng hn v kh ca h. VNAF bit iu , hun luyn phi cng ca
khai thc trit th tri ca MIG-17, 19 v 21, l khng chin tm ngn, khi m
cc my bay nng n Thn Sm v Con Ma km li th. Ch n nhng ngy
cui cng ca chin tranh, Hi qun M mi tp trung hun luyn chng trnh
top gun, rn luyn k thut khng chin tm ngn (dogfight) v my bay F-4 con
ma c thm khu 20mm th M mi chng c im mnh ny ca VNAF. Tng
kt, mi trng tc chin ca phi cng Vit Nam l mi trng giu mc tiu, cn

mi trng tc chin ca phi cng M l mi trng ngho. Phi cng M khng

th d dng tm kim mc tiu bn h lp chin cng, n gin l VNAF ch c
khng qu 200 my bay. Tt c nhng iu kin to ra nhiu phi cng t
Vit Nam hn M v to iu kin phi cng t Vit Nam bn ri nhiu my bay
hn phi cng M. Tng cng, c 16 phi cng t Vit Nam c chin tranh ny
to ra, trong c 13 phi cng MIG-21 v 3 phi cng MIG-17, khng c phi cng
at MIG-19 no. y l danh sch.
Top Vietnamese Aces Kills (*) Comments Unit Plane Nguyen Van Coc 9 (7) 2
F-4Ds, 1 F-4B, 2 F-105Fs, 1 F-105D and 1 F-102A 921 FR MiG-21PF Nguyen
Hong Nhi 8 (3) 1 UAV, 1 F-4D, 1 F-105D. Downed once 921 FR MiG-21 Pham
Thanh Ngan 8 (1) 1 RF-101C 921 FR MiG-21F-13 Mai Van Cuong 8 (?) -921 FR
MiG-21 Dang Ngoc Ngu 7 (1) 1 F-4C on May 22 1967 921 FR MiG-21 Nguyen
Van Bay 7 (5) 2 F-8s, 1 F-4B, 1 A-4C and 1 F-105D 923 FR MiG-17F Nguyen Doc
Soat 6 (5) 3 F-4Es, 1 F-4J, 1 A-7B 927 FR MiG-21PFM Nguyen Ngoc Do 6 (2) 1
F-105F, 1 RF-101C 921 FR MiG-21 Nguyen Nhat Chieu 6 (2) 1 F-4 (w/MiG-17), 1
F-105D 921 FR MiG-17 & MiG-21 Vu Ngoc Dinh 6 (5) 3 F-105Ds, 1 F-4D, 1 HH53C 921 FR MiG-21 Le Thanh Dao 6 (2) 1 F-4D, 1 F-4J 927 FR MiG-21PFM
Nguyen Danh Kinh 6 (3) 1 F-105D, 1 EB-66C, 1 UAV 921 FR MiG-21 Nguyen
Tien Sam 6 (1) 1 F-4E 927 FR MiG-21PFM Le Hai 6 (2) 1 F-4C, 1 F-4B 923 FR
MiG-17F Luu Huy Chao 6 (1) 1 RC-47 606 ACS 923 FR MiG-17F Nguyen Van
Nghia 5 (1) -927 FR MiG-21PFM
y l nhng con s ni r tnh cam m ca nhng phi cng tt nht th
gii, khi phi i mt vi khng qun mnh nht th gii. Bng vic phng th x
s ca h, h ginh c s ngng m t i phng, nhng ngi lnh
trn khng M. Ai l i t Tun, ti sao ng khng c trong danh sch . Mt cu
chuyn quen hoan ng hay c gii hng khng qun s M k, l mt phi
cng huyn thoi tn l Tul, i T Tun , Col. Toon (hoc Col. Tomb). y l mt
phi cng huyn thoi c cc phi cng M tng tng, truyn b, VNAF khng
c ai tn th. Col toon gng nh phi cng nm bom m mt mnh ww2 Washing
Machine Charlie., ch l huyn thoi.
Th nhng, c nhng trn nh kinh hong bn h i t Tul, mt trn nh
nh th cn c bt ln trn ny-nh l mt trn nh c bit quan trng ca
phi cng M. Mt bc khoi qu ht tong, i t Tun nh Thnh Ging, l
thn xung gip ta nh xm lc. (hi hi hi, c khi M gp Thnh Ging ci
MIG-17 khng chin, Thnh bn nhau chi xong, xng lTun, ri v gii)
Nguyn Vn By: Khi trung on khng qun 923 c thnh lp ngy 7-91965, By c chn l phi cng chin u li MIG-17MiG-17F Frescos. KHa
hun luyn kt thc thng ging nm 1966 v trung y tr tui By sm i u
vi my bay M. Ngy 21 thang 6 nm 1966, 4 MIG 17 ca trung on tn cng
my bay trinh st RF-8A v i h tng F-8 Crusaders VF-211. Sau khi i h
tng F-8 h 2 MIG, By lp chin cong u tin khi bn h mt F-8 do phi
cng Cole Black li, phi cng ny nhy dv b bt. Trn nh pht trin, cc phi

cng Vit Nam t mc ch khi Phan Thnh Trung (ym tr) bn h RF-8A, phi
cng l Leonard Eastman tr thnh t binh. Mt tun sau, By gy ngc nhin khi
cng 3 MIG khc chng li cuc tn cng kho xng du gn H Ni, nn nhn
ca anh l mt nhn vt quan trng, Major Murphy Neal Jones tr thnh t binh.
cc bc ang ni chuyn v ngi n c y ny, By bn trong tm rt
gm, n cha khong cch an ton n. n 37 n tr thnh n xuyn
Tuy nhin, trn nh ln nht ca By ch xy ra vo 24-4-1967. Lc , dn
u i bay, By ct cnh t sn bai Kin An tn cng vo i hnh my bay Hi
QUn M. Anh p st mt F-8 ang khng bit g ri bn, F-8C -BuNo 146915,
phi cng trung y. Cdr. E.J.Tucker trng n ri ri, b bt (khng may, sa cht
trong t). My bay h tng F-4 n, bn mt s tn la nhng yn tr ca By
bo ng, By lc my bay tranh c ht cc tn la. By li MIG-17 Fresco v
pha mt F-4(.Lt. Cdr. C.E. Southwick v Ens. J.W. Land c cu) ri bn h .
Ngy hm sau, By tip tc lp cng. Ngy 25-4 i MIG-17 bn h hai A-4s (the
A-4C BuNo 147799 li bi Lt. C.D. Stackhouse (POW) v A-4C BuNo 151102, li
bi Lt(jg) A.R. Crebo, cu c) By c thng hun chng ca Qun i
Vit Nam v kh nng khng chin v ch huy ca mnh. u nm 1972, By cng
L Xun Dnh trng tu khu trc Oklahoma City v Highbee y l thit hi t
trn khng u tin ca Hm i7 k t ww2. By lm b htung nh thng u,
cn D tng mt bom 250kg vo tho pho thng sau.
Tm th nh. Tip sau cc bc , thng em em n r nhu. Em ha vi
cc bc l mo t MIG-17 bn F-4 th no, sng my bn tn la th no, t
lm. To bc kqndvn, tng bc ght anh em tch ring lm n c th, nay li
chui dz hp tc . Khng chin bng radar l khng chin qu tm nhn. Khi
nim u tin ca qu tm nhn l khng chim mi thi tit, bi trc em c k
MIG-17 xut m vo mc tiu v radar qu ti trong m y. Qu tm nhn trong
m ti sng m ri mi n qu tm nhn khi tri trong khong cch xa. Radio
hormin hn hng ngoi l c th bn trong sng m..
Mt trong nhng nguyn nhn Aim7 cha dng c cho Beyon Visual
Range attack:
1. Giai on pht trin u ca tn la dn ng bng Rada. Ban u pht
trin cho all-weather, day and night fighter and all-aspect attack. Aim7 cho php
phi cng dng rada bn xuyn my, khi m i phng khng nhn thy bn tn
cng (offensive force).
2. Tham s bn phc tp:
3. Mig vit nam s tip cn t pha sau v tt sn (v h ch c cannon v
tm nhit), nn c hi bn i u rt t. Nu bn trc din, Mig d dng nhn
thy tn la bay n v ui khi remarkably visible; Mig d dng trnh v Aim7
c ng km.
4. Bn pha sau trong trng hp bt ng, mc tiu bay thng, tm bn ti a
ch 3 dm (kqndvn: vn trong tm nhn). Trong trng hp mc tiu bit v c

ng, tm bn ti a ch 2 dm, do khi tn la ln theo mc tiu b deplete

speed.
5. Ch n F14, F15 KQ mi bt u thc s pht trin kh nng BVR, do lc
ch th nhm n l Mig25. KQ M cho rng vi tc qu ln (ti a ghi
nhn cl 3.2M ti israel [1]), Mig25 c th n v i bt cht m phi cng
khng kp c thi gian ngm bn.
Qun khng ghi li tn sch ngun, s cung cp sau. y l sch ca mt phi
cng F4 Vit nam, v sau chuyn bay c F16 v F15.
Quan im ca phi cng ny khng nht thit (not necessary) l quan im
chung ca KQ M.
[1] Chic ny ang b mt F4 ca KQ Israel truy kch nn phi dng u th tc
thot ly. Khi h cnh, c hai ng c ca n b overspeed v phi vt b.
Tc ti a operationally effective l 2.83 M. Nhng s tay phi cng n nh
ch nn bay ti a 2M m bo bn ca ng c.
Em ni thc cc bc ng gin ch ci b ny ci nhau nhiu qu. Sao cc
bc khng lm nh steppy i kim tra ri post ln, ngn gn thi. Ci chnh l
thng tin, ch ci kiu cc bc quote cu ch ca nhau ri moi mc, em ni tht
lm bm qu.[/b
ng l t nay chng ta kim ch khng nn qu moi mc cu ch. Nhng
trong trng hp thng tin ng ng qu th vn phi trch dn c th.[:D
Cn steppy ni l i tra cu ngun th ai bit l ngun no? Ti cng c ngun
ch Mig15 thm t trong khng chin vi F86 y ny. Ti khng k ra trong ny
v ti khng mun HPc c vng by. Phi cng M ni n ch hiu qu khi dng
sn cc my bay nm bom knh cng chm chp thi. Th nn ti khng tham
gia vo my v ci c ny v ti thy cc ngun khc nhau qu.
Cn vic VN lm Ace th n gin hnta tng: chng ta ch c chng phi
cng v my bay nn phi ra trn lin tc v c hi ghi im cao l ng nhin.
(D nhin l nu anh thot cht). Ging nh 1 tin o thng xuyn c ra sn
th s bn thng s nhiu hn ti tin o phi
thay phin nhau vy Cn M th nh kiu xoay vng v h nhiu my bay
v phi cng.
Th thi, cn cc yu t khc nh ti gii mu tr v v th chn vn sch ni
ri, t khng ni li.
chng phi M nhiu phi cng nn xoay vng, chng qua l ngay c tng
thng cng ch dm p thng no hy sinh cho quc Mo c, ti n ni lon th
khn! Lnh M thng no cng ch mong ht hn ri chun. Ch c vi trng hp
c bit l hung hng thi. Trng hp ni ting nht c l l mt tay i t hiu
trng mt trng khng qun ca M. Thy n em b h nhiu qu hn bn
tnh nguyn sang VN khng chin vi Mig xem sao. Chng d ngay phi v u

tin min Bc b bn h bi mt phi cng rt tr ca ta! Th l hng ng t

binh phi cng c thm chc v i t!!
Ngi trc tip bp c bn ri hn l thiu u tr Ng c Mi (Mig-17). Ngay
sau trn c vo Ph Ch tch gp bc H tng huy chng lun. Nhng
l chin cng tp th. Mt phi cng khc ko s ch ca tn i t Mi
h hn t pha sau.
Ti nh khng lm th Ng c Mi sau hy sinh, sau khi dit tng s
4 my bay ch.
M c nhiu lnh v c chnh sch quay vng sn sng chin u. Lnh b
binh sau mt nm v nc. KQ ti a mt nm, cn khng th tnh theo s phi v,
ci no n trc th c tnh trc. i tng V Nguyn Gip c ch trch
im ny l mt trong nhng sai lm c bn ca M, v lnh M khng kp tch lu
kinh nghim. [on ny ti khng nh r l trong Hi k hay trong tr li phng
vn vi bo ch Phng Ty
Cu xem h t ci t l khng chin Lin X:Mo l 1:10 hay l th no. Vit
c ra y cho b con lun. Xem l Lin X c tnh s my bay nm bom vo y
khng, v Mo c tnh s my bay nm bom vo t l to khng, mi bn mt bao
nhiu tim kch
Ch l tang bn khon ci chuyn nghe theo M th d v M tuyn truyn
cho tr con. Nhng m ni ting hng u v tuyn truyn th hn nhin khng
phi l Mo. Nn t c suy ngh mi ci chuyn ti liu mt ca Lin X mi tit
l gn y l tuyn truyn cho ngi ln hay cho dng ngi no. Ri khng bit
cn ti liu mt no sp c tit l na hay khng?!
Th gii ny c v nh o ln ht ln ri hay sao . Thng ni ting v tuyn
truyn th tr nn ng n. Sp ti chc cn nhiu chuyn l na. T nh bc
Chiangshan th quay ra vit bi ca ngi Tu, Antey tr nn ght xe tng thm t,
RW v spirou th mc cho mi ngi lng m ln nhau v vit bi nhy cm,
Trung quc qui thun v tr thnh ch hu ca VN, cn tng thng M th xin li
nhn dn ton th gii v tn cng Iraq!!!!!?
Cu ngh ngi ta ngi ba ra thng tin a ln y tranh ci vi nhau h?
T cho cu ci tin ny nh. Trong CTVN, phi cng CHDC c cng sang VN
li Mig-21v dit hn chc my bay Mo. Cu lm nh steppy i kim tra i.
Ni trc cho cu bit, khng c thng tin ni n ng cha kt lun l
n sai u.
Em xin tip tc, cng nh trc, bi ny em dch nguyn bn, y l nhng
ngi M v ngi nc ngoi nghim tc nghin cu v khng chin trong
chin tranh VN. y l chin tranh trn khng c vai tr c bit quan trng vi
khng qunh hin i. y l ln u tin cc phng tin in t mnh c p
dng thay th cho knh ngm v sng my. y l cuc chin tranh m cc chin
thut khng chin qu tm nhn ln u tin c th nghim, cuc chin tranh

trn khng m mi trn nh tr thnh gio khoa kinh in cho khng qun
th gii. Em cng nhc li mc ch nhng bi dch ny ca em, n cung cp gc
nhn nghim tc t bn kia, khng phi nhng bi vit tr con nh M Nga 10:1.
ca nhng k tuyn truyn r tin. Vic nghin cu cc trn khng chin qu tm
nhn u tin l mt vic qu gi, khng nn lm hng iu bng nhng mc
ch r tin coi ngi c nh tr con nh vy. Nhiu ln trn forum ny, nhiu
ngi a ra nhng con s kill / lost lun thng v pha M, thng n mc
khng th tin c. Nh CTTT, 10:1 (nu tnh ra M ri hn 1000 my bay th LX
mt mt vn chic!!!!!!!!!) hoc CTVN, M khin tn ch thng 2:1 hay 3:1 hay mt
t s no . Cn y, l nhng g ngi M vit mt cch nghim tc. Em cng
khng trnh khi nhng cm tnh ring, nhng nhng li ca em trong bi ny
u dng ch nghing phn bit. Khng t ho sao c, khng qun non tr
ca ta thng li trc khng qun k cu. Chng ta phi chin u vi s
lng my bay rt t so vi ch, th h my bay c v my bay hin i nh
MIG-21 cng l loi nh, r hn. Lm sao khng t ho c, khi mi trn nh,
chng ta ch c mt vi chic tung honh trong i hnh ng gp hng chc ln
my bay M, pha sau l cc my bay tr chin hin i nht. Khng t ho sao
c, khi c nhng thi gian di, trong iu kin nh vy chng ta thng trng.
Khng t ho sao c, khi nhng phi cng v ch huy khng qun M dnh cho
khng qun ta nhng li tn trng knh phc nht. Trong khi ngi M nh th th
mt vi k ni ting Vit m lun tm cch d
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
bi bi bc chin thng ca chng ta, mun b cong s tht r rng.
Em cng mong bc Chingshan hay cc bc lc li cc ti liu m cc bc c,
lm r hn nhng s kin m em cha r. To bc c sy. M tuyn truyn khe
nh th no th c nhn vo lm mn ca bc v ng i l hiu. Khng k
n nhng chuyn ln gn y nh v kh hy dit hng lot hay siu i bc
ca Iraq, chuyn nh nh topic ny m u bng cu mun tha M thng Nga
10:1. Cc bc ci nhau th k cc bc, s tht vn l s tht. Tng thng M
cha xin li v tn cng Iraq nhng cng phi c li v v kh huye dit hng lot
ca Iraq ri.
Mt gi tr ni bt ca VNAF l kh nng truyn th kinh nghim chin trn
ca h cho nhng ngi lnh mi. Nguyn c Sot l mt tn binh ca trung
on 921. Hun luyn vin ca anh l nhng phi cng sng to v nhiu kinh
nghim chin trng nht ca VNAF. Mt l Phm Thanh Ngn, phi cng sng
to nht, sng to v th nghim nhng chin thut chnh ca MIG-21. Mt l
Cc, phi cng s mt ca cuc chin tranh ny. So khng thi hi nhng hun
luyn vin tt hn, nhng trn nh Sot i theo vi t cch ym tr, anh khng
ghi chin thng no, nhng thu c nhng kinh nghim qu gi. Sau , anh
c bin ch vo trung on mi thnh lp 927. Khi chin dch Linebacker 1 bt
u thng 5 1972, anh sn sng lm xic bng nhng kh nng hc c.

Ngy 23, anh lp chin cng u tin khi bn h USN A7B Corsair II vi sng
30mm, nn nhn ca anh l Charles Barnett (KIA). Mt thng sau ngy 24 thng
6, hai MIG do Nguyn c Nh v H Vinh Thanh ct cnh t Ni Bi lc 15:12
tn cng mt vi F-4 con ma ang nh ph nh my Thi Nguyn. cc F-4 h
tng phn ng lp tc, tn cng v pha 2 MIG ny. Nhng, 2 MIG ny ch l mi
nh, bng nhin, cc F-4 h tng b 2 MIG ca trung on 927 xut hin v tn
cng rt t ngt. 2 MIG do Nguyn c Sot (dn ng, tn cng) v Ng Duy
Thu (cnh gii), h lm cho F-4 h tng ngc nhin, nhng s ngc nhin cha
kp kt thc th F-4E do David Grant v William Beekman iu khin trng Atoll
ca Sot, hai ngi ny tr thnh POW. Thu cng lm nh vy vi mt F-4 khc.
y l thi k ca topgun, phi cng M c hun luyn li v F-4 c ci
tin, hay c qung co mnh.
Ba ngy sau, 11:53, Sot v Thu li ct cnh t Ni Bi tn cng 4 F-4,
nhng 8chic F-4 khn lanh xut hin tu lao n. Trnh s nguy him khi
8 ch F-4 ny nh chn hai MIG nh sandwiched, h quay tr li v tro ln
cao 5000 mt ri i . S kin nhn ca h c n b, nhng vt kh en
i ca F-4 t nhin xut hin. Sot v Thu mi ngi thm mt ch na trong
bng thnh tch, nn nhn (Miller/McDow) ca Sot b bt. Ngy 26-8, Sot bn
h chic F-4j USMC, y l chic duy nht loi ny ri trong chin tranh VN, RIO
c cu cn phi cng khng may cht (Sam Cordova). Sot thc hin chin
thng cui cng ca anh trong chin tranh ngy 12-10, anh h con ma ng ght
ca bu tri F-4E do Myron Young v Cecil Brunson li (2 ch POW). Nh Cc v
cc cu chin binh trn tri ca VN khc, Sot tr thnh huyn thoi v k thut
bay v lng dng cm.
Khc vi ch, t t tn ton nhng diu, si, ma, thin li..v..v.v.v Cc phi
cng ca ta gi chic my bay ca mnh bng ci tn du dng l cnh n. iu
khng lm nhng my bay d di ca ch chin thng, nhng cnh n l vn
lao vo n diu ng c m tung honh lp cng. Tht k diu, phi cng cata
mt tht hin t. y khng c nh ca Phm Thanh Ngn, anh trng nh hc
sinh. T tri sang phi By, Cc Sot
MIG-17, By dng my bay ny thc hin mt phn cc chin thng
ca mnh, trong c nm bom Oklahoma City 19 thng 4 nm 1972. . Anh lc
MIG-17 trnh c ht tn la, ri lao vo tn cng F-4, bn h bng
canong37mm. Dng MIG-17 tn cng F-4, dng sng bn h tn la, sao m
khng knh phc phi cng ta c.
Here we go again, HP! Hoan h ci freedom of speech! Nu ch da vo
lm mm ca ti, v ng i, tnh chuyn tuyn truyn th cho hi cu ang
tuyn truyn cho ai hay ci nc no th? Tnh trn ci y khng th chng
ti thua t cu, cha thm tnh thm kh nng lng
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.

m ngi khc. Cu c th sng to hn mt t c khng, khi cu phi lng

m (ai a ra ci t ny nh) ngi khc . i khi l cho n mt t k thut vo
ri xo nu ln. khng nh vy hi chn.
CT Triu tin th lin quan g y, v lin quan g ti nhng bi cu ang
dch, m cu phi lng n vo tuyn b l tuyn truyn cho tr con? Ti ang
nh steppy a s liu xem ci thng tin mt mi c tit l v t l Nga M
10:1 l tuyn truyn cho dng no. C mi ln c mt thng tin mt mi tit l
c ti ral v ngay vo, th nn c ly l mt cch tuyn truyn rt hay.
Nhng m bp vo ri li n ra ru rao khp ni th cng cheap as hell.
V ci on chng ta mt vi chic tung honh. N cng cheap nh vy
thi. Chin thut ca ta l hit and run, khng phi trn nh no cng li m
tung honh u. Khng run ni th phi tung honh, l ci chuyn bt qu phi
lm. M xem li xem nhng trn tung honh th thit hi th no. Ri nhng my
bay tr chin hin i nht ca Mo th hin i th no? Mc tr gip ca
chng c tc ngv dn n hiu qu th no cho Mo. Mp m khng nh vy
th cng cheap lm. ng cvit khng rng n hin i ri ngi ta li tng
Mo ton bn kh, c chi tt m khng lm g c my anh nng dn chn
t mt tot.
K thut hin i cho php chng pht hin ra ta k c mt s trng hp
radar ca chng khng vi ti, 2 mybay ca ta mt khi ang i tun m khng r
ti sao.
y nh. Mp m! Ti vit nhng bi trc ri. K thut g, hai ci no?
Nu l hai ci bc Chn ni th ci on mp m nh vy lm g? y mnh
kh nng ch ln v nh th lm tng thm hnh nh ca ta?
Khng, em cam oan vi cc bc l, khng mt ai trn th gii ny nm 1947
ngh rng, nhng ch b chn t mt tot 20 nm sau s cng i th xy dng
vth nghim cuc cch mng trong khng chin: chin u qu tm nhn. nhng
trn khng chin theo mt kiu cha din ra bao gi: k thut khng chin qu
tm nhn
y na nh. Ti cng vit ri. Rt cuc th anh nng dn chn t mt
tot khng c ci g qu tm nhn nn bin thnh i tng cho Mo th ci qu
tm nhn ca n. Hng hn v honh trng lm g? Hay li l b mt mi c
tit l? Bc submarines cng gip ti chng minh ri. ROE khng cho php
khng chin qu tm nhn. Ta li cng hn ch ci qu tm nhn y bng vic dn
ng. Phng tin ca Mo cng cn cha p ng c. Xy dng ci g?
Bao nhiu trn nh p dng ci k thut khng chin qu tm nhn qu tm
nhn h? V ci s c xy dng ci k thut khng chin qu tm nhn,
ri lm cho cc trn khng chin CTVN tr thnh kinh in hay khng?
trn th cu li vit r khng qun ta tung honh TRONG i hnh ch MI trn
nh. Vit nh th li cng cho thy ta v ch gn nhau ng khng? Th ci k
thut nh nhau khi tung honh trong i hnh nh th l k thut khng chin
qu tm nhn h?

Cc bc cng kch em mnh nh. Em bo l em khng tuyn truyn, y l

nhng g l s tht c ngi nc ngoi trong c nhng s liu chnh thc
ca M vit. Tt nhin, s tht l s tht, n lm cho nhng k ni ting Vit lun
qung co M thng 10:1 au kh-mt i nin tin, i ngi yu. y l nhng g
em dch, cng nh bi trc, li ca em d nh u vit ch nghing phn
bit. Em li cn b xo bi vit v phn i iu na ch. Th th tm dng
khng chin VN li t, xen vo cht khng chin TT. Vi li, c ci ny cc
bc thy i hn khi MIG chin u ng i hnh ng o ca chng nh
mc tiu thit k, khng nh ch mt hai con chim n lao vo by si nh CTVN.
C th mi hiu hn CTVN. Topic ny m u bng mt cu, CTTT khng qun
M thng khng qun Nga li MG vi t s
10:1.
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
Em c mt c bit l ci topic ca emcc trn chin lm thay i c cu
chin hm th chn mi ch ai vo. Cn nhng topic cc bc ra em tham gia
th n tung to. Ci HK100 nm ca bc n hnh Ty ny, M x tn la cu bc
c x ny, AT-14 ca bc sli0471. Gn y bc c sy v bc kqndvn li m hai
topic hp dn, em thanh gia mt ci l s ngi c ng ngay, liu c t c
nh hk100nm khng nh, t ra cng bng AT-14 hay m x ch nh. Em vit m,
hay phi bit bc kqndvn nh, , cm n em i ch. Thi, tip tc m x cc trn
khng chin. CTTT, cc trn khng chin d di, y l cc trn cui cng s
dng sng lm v kh chnh. Cc my bay c tc gn gn m thanh, bung li
kn, c radar rt s khai hay cha h c. Chin tranh chc chn l nh cao nht
ca dogfight, tic l t phim, ch nhng on phim v khng chin ny chc chn
l hp dn nht mi thi i. Hp dn v my bay bay nhanh, nho ln kho
khng nh cc cnh qut b gi ww2. Hp dn l v cc my bay tim kch vn
s dng nho ln l chnh bm ui nhau tm vi trm mt bn sng, khng
chn pho nh F-22 bi gi, tt xa phng tn la nh xt. Chin thut khng
chin theo chiu thng ng biu hin trong ww2 ang c y mnh v pht
trin vi ng c ngy cng nh v mnh. Khi tr li CTVN, cc bc s thy em
trnh by giai on cui cng ca khng chin theo chiu thng ng. y l
chin tranh cui cng dogflight. n ctvn, u nhng nm 1960 v trong nhng
nm 1950, nhiu phng php khng chin qu tm nhn pht trin, cng
radar. Phin bn u tin ca khng chin qu tm nhn l cc n lc chin u
mi thi tit, v c bn hon thnh trong nhng nm 1950, sau chin tranh ny.
Nhng bigi cha c, cc st th bn n xuyn ngm mt thng. y l chin
tranh u tin cc my bay chin u trn khng ph lc l lc lng ch lc. Do
, rt nhiu bt ng.
Phi cng t Lin X trong chin tranh Triu Tin.
Gn y, b mt v cuc chin tranh Triu Tin mi c gii mt. C hai
nc Nga v M giu s tham gia ca Lin X vo chin tranh ny trnh

bn cc oan ku go cho chin tranh th gii 3. Gn y, nhng phi cng Lin

X c mi k v s tham gia ca h vo cuc chin tranh ny nm 1952-1953.
Ban u, cuc chieens tranh l Nam v Bc Triu Tin, nhng M nhanh chng
li ko c Lin Xv M cng nhiu nc ln khc vo trn. Alexandr Pavlovich
Smortzkow sinh nm 1919, trong chin tranh Triu Tin ng phc v trung on
18. ng c tng thng hn chng Sao cho cng lao phc v ti chin
tranh Triu Tin. ng l mt anh hng Lin X, ngy nay, ng v hu vi hm i
t. ng tr li phng vn ca bo Nga s tht Komsomolskaya.
Thng 7 nm 1950 ti li chic my bay MIG-15 ri khi Maskva khi ti nhn
c mt lnh t b t lnh phng khng (PVO), tng K. Moscalenko cho ti
bit v mt nhip v ti mt ti cuc xung t Triu Tin. Mt lnh cu nhim v,
Plicacpop Po-2 ct cnh nhn c v chng ti bn u chuyn di chuyn b
mt ban m n Vin ng. Khi n Vin ng, chng ti thy thi tit rt t.
Cn ma nh ma nhit i trt xung, c i ti cha gp bao gi. Bao nhiu
l vt bi tung tng trn sn bay ca chng ti. Nhim v u tin chng ti thc
hin ti sn bay Mukdan, nhng t ngy sau, trong on 18 c lnh di chuyn
n sn bay Andun. Nhim v u tin ca ti thc hin trn MIG 15 ca trung
on khc. 24 chic my bay tim kkch MIG-15 bay trong ba i mi i 8 chic.
CHng toi mc quan phc Trung Quc v my bay ca chng ti sn hiu Trung
Quc. Ban u, chng ti nhn c lnh ch c ni trinh Triu Tin qua
radio, nhng hu ht phi cng u khng bit ting Triu Tin. Chng ti s dng
t din hc vi t n gin ti thiu cn thit cho bay v khng chin. Tuy
nhin, mnh lnh ny sm b b qun. Thi ca chng ti vi phi cng M
phc tp, trong WW2, chng ti cng chin u chng li Hitler, y, xa
Cao Ly ny, chngb ti khng coi h l th, m ch l ch. Khu hiu ca chng
toi lc l chy ua vi bt c ai. M tn cng Bc Triu Tin v chng ti c
hai nhim v, mt l cy cu bc qua sng Aps Lc v trm in Andun cung cp
in cho Bc Triu Tin. CHng ti bo v hai mc tiu thnh cng. Akatow
thc hin chin cng trn khng u tin ca chng ti khi anh bn h mt chic
F-86 Sabre. Phi cng ny sau mt v mt vt thng nng trong khng chin,
anh ch c mt chin
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
cng . Mt phi cng na cng mt l bn ti, Valentin Filimonow anh mt v
hai F-86 tn cng. Quan im ca chng ti v nng lc ca hai bn th ny. Phi
cng M rt tt, iu ny c s tn ng ca cscs bn ti l Vladimir
Voistinnych v Pete Chourkin. Tuy nhin, MIG-15 l my bay rt tt. Nhng n c
mt nhc im th ny, n d b dng ng c t ngt khi vng gp Ci ny th
huyphuc mt s ln cp n. MIG-15 hay gy ra tai nn do tt ng c t
ngt, gim p ca ht gi khi vng gp v n pin. Ddnh gi v cc my bay
M, F-8080 Shooting Star v F-86 Sabre tt, cn F-84 Thunderjet trung bnh. Mt
hom chng ti gp mt i Uc Gloster Meteors, chng to v bn rt sng. Bn

ti l Oskin v ti h 5 ci trong mt chuyn bay. Mt hm chng ti gp B-29, ti

nghe thy trong radio, mt i B-29 pha trc ti. Ti Dn chic MIG-15 ca ti
v nhanh chng thy B-29 vi bao nhiu h tng. Ti tn cng h 2 B-29 v mt
my bay h tng F-86 Sabres. Ting radio vng ti: Alexandr, anh th no, ti
vui v: thng v khng sao. Ti trung on ti h 5 B-29.
Alexandr Smortzkow kt thc chin tranh vi 12 chin cng: 5 B-29, 2 F-86, 5
Meteors. Ivan Kozedub, phi cng v i nht Lin X trong chin tranh V
Quc(62 pht), anh hng Lin X, 3 hun chng Sao Vng l ch huy ca mt
trung on khng qun Lin X ti Triu Tin, ng khng ba Vng, trit hc mt t,
bc th ngh rng y, kt qu c trc xem sao.
T khng quan tm iu ny, n gin ci chuyn cm HP y l vi phm
freedom of speech, cho d c bit trc hay khng v chc chn hay khng cng
chng lm thay i s tht l iu cm l sai.
Theo ngha trit hc th cu xem Minority Report cha, nh trong y y,
chod bit trc k no s git ngi, ngn chn k ri b t h l sai m
sai nghim trng y. V nh th l tiu dit freewill ri, ta tiu dit freewill ca
k khc theo nhng chin thut x hi th ng trch c lc k khc s li lm
iu vi ta.
Cn cu phi xem li ton b m t tranh lun cho, l chuyn t ra lut cm
vy ng hay sai, sai theo ngha tuyt i ca freedom of speech khng ni ri,
sai c trong phmvi tng i ca x hi khi lut nhm c th vo mt thnh
vin, chng th gi l lut c. Chuyn HP vn thc thi c freedom of speech
ca cu ta khng nh hng g n s tht ban u l iu cm sai. M
cng nc ci hn, khi cu kqndvn a ra iu cm , ri cc cu vo tranh
lun vi t l iu cu ta lm l ng hay khng, ri i n s thc l cc cu
cng khng lm sao thc thi c ci iu cm . Vy th ngay t u t ra
iu cm lm g, v tranh ci cho iu cm l ng th cng bun ci
hn?
T khng c nhm g vo cu, t chng thy cu ni g vi kqndvn khi
cu y a ra lut y . Khi t cng kch chuyn freedom of speech vy th cu
li vo ni cho cu kqndvn, nn t ni cu bao ng vy, t nhc i nhc li
l bt k thnh vin no, nguyn tc l nguyn tc. Nn nu cu mun ixa hn,
t s hi cu n gin thi:
-iu cm c th HP l sai hay ng, theo c ngha ca freedom of
speech v theo c ngha ca lut x hi? -C c s thc t cho iu cm y
khng?
Bc th xem r hn xem, l bc kqndvn vit nh th quan trng ho vic
cm freedom of speech ca HP hay quan trng ho ci vic bc y lm?
T khng hi u m i on suy ngh trong u cu kqndvn, nhng theo t
ng t trch m ni: k ph v ngi lm cho thy cu ta ang quan trng
vic cu ta lm, cn cm c th HP hnl cm chung mi thnh vin vo lng m

cu ta cho thy cu ta quan trng ha vic cm HP lng m, ty dn n s

tht l vi phm freedom of speech ca HP, v ch ra c th l HP trong iu
cm l sai.
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
Th ci on xin hu chuyn cng l dn ?V vic bc ang lin tc trch
dn bi ca ti cng l dn ? H h, th th ngi qu!
C g u, cu hc mn Communications cha, khi ta ni hay vit trong mi
trng x hi l cho tav cng cho ngi khc, th hin t tng ca ta khi vit
th phi dn cho logic mi hu chuyn cc cu c ch, m hu chuyn
ngi khc cngc gi tr cho h v cho c t th t mi lm, n gin ca
nguyn tc give-&-take.
Ny gi gi l tranh lun t vi bc, by gi ti vo chuyn k thut y ny:
Nhng xin nhc li l vn khng phi qu tm nhn, l ci chnh m ta ang
bn y.
- l BVR tng i nh t ni, m thc ra cng chng cn tng i hay
tuyt i, cth ni l tin trnh pht trin BVR ni chung. M ctn la AIM-7
BVR lc y, ch l khng tht hiu qu vy thi.
-Ti c bo l tnh n hiu qu ca BVR trong CTVN u. Ti xem xt ci
hiu qu ca AIM-7 thng qua xem xt s tn ti ca k thut khng chin
qu tm nhn do Mo v anh nng dn chn t mt tot nh bc HP trnh
by.
-C k thut BVR nh ni, k thut BVR bt u pht trin nhiu t sau
chin tranh Triu Tin, n chin tranh Vit Nam th thnh hnh, nhng cha hiu
qu. C th HPcho ci cm gic l k thut BVR lc ca M l hiu qu nhm
cao vai tr KQND Vit Nam nhng BVR c th n vn c nh t ni
Chng t bin g n ngay true BVR, ti sao li t bin n ngay false
BVR, khi ngay c ci false y n cng rt hn ch? Bn thn ci false y cng
rt mp m! Bao nhiu trng hp bn h theo ci tnh trng false BVR, xt trong
mi tng quan ti s ln ng c mang theo AIM-7.
-Khng c ci gi l false BVR, ngi ta ni n true/real BVR so snh vi
BVR theo ngha thc nht l c pht hin ra bng mt thng hay cha, nh t
cp n l BVR tng i.
Ti sao Mo li phi ch ra ci AIM-7E-2 cho dogfight? Ti sao Navy ca Mo
li phi dy nhau dogfight. Ti sao Mo li phi lp thm gun pod cho F-4?
-AIM-7E-2 l mu ci tin mang li tnh c ng (agility) cho tn la trong
chin tranh Vit Nam. N vn c th bn mc tiu ngi tm dogfight 5-10km nh
t cp. Cu khng nn ni rng n c ch cho dogfight, nu ni vy xin
php t ch dogfight trong ngoc kp.

-Chuyn Navy dy nhau dogfight trong chng trnh Top Gun do nhiu yu t,
c k thut v chnh tr, t khng bit ht v t khng lm vic cho Navy M giai
on . Nu cu hi cu , cng c th hi li cu ti sao AirForce khng dy
nhay dogfight nh Navy giai on . AirForce gp mt phn ln hn trong cc
cuc khng kch min bc.
V chuyn lp li sng cho F-4, nhiu yu t thng dn n dogfight trong
chin tranh Vit Nam nh t cp trc y, nu cn cu c th c li.
Hi li ln na, k thut khng chin BVR l theo BVR tng i hay tuyt
i?
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
-Tr li li ln na c c nhng yu t cho BVR bt k l tng i hay
tuyt i. Nu l tuyt i th nh t a ra tm 30km ca AIM-7E l qu
d. Nhng theo ngha tuyt i th cha hiu qu, nu cu li tnh quay li tnh
hiu qu ca AIM-7 giai on cho BVR mt ln na.
Vng, vi ci v d AIM-7 y, ti ch mun ni l xt theo phng tin k thut
th BVR c t trc CTVN. AIM-7 v radar ca n c trc CTVN, EC-121 v
cc my bay trinh thm c t trc CTVN
-Nh ni BVR c pht trin t trc chin tranh Vit Nam, tip tc c
ci tin trong chin tranh Vit Nam, c sau chin tranh Vit Nam, v qu trnh
vn ang din ra hin nay. Nhng thng ngi ta nhc n chin tranh Vit
Nam nh l giai on u ca BVR v v kh BVR c a ra th nghim thc
t chin trng ln u, qua th nghim cho thy km hiu qu, nhiu pht trin
cho BVR ni tip trong giai on , ci ny c trn bt k site no chnh thc
ca M u c th thy. V EC-121, nhiu ci tin c thc thi trong giai
on chin tranh Vit Nam nng cao tnh hiu qu ca n, c cu kqndvn
dch n on nhng thay i v radar APS-95, -103 trong quyn Clashes cho
EC-121 Disco s thy. i vi AIM-7, ci tin lm tng tnh c ng th nh qua
AIM-7E-2 cu trch, cn sau ny AIM-7E-4 tm xa, hot ng hiu qu hn vi
radar my bay cng l t chin tranh Vit Nam. Cu khng nht thit phi bt b
trc hay sau hay t hay trong, c my ci ny thuc v mt qu trnh pht
trin chung BVR m giai on chin tranh Vit Nam l mt phn ca s pht trin
.
Vng, blah blah blah Xin tham kho li bi ti vit xem r l ci g.
- cu bt l HP qua tnh hiu qu ch g u, my con s bao nhiu phn
trm ca cu vi chuyn dy nhau li dogfight m thc s ch din ra trong
Navy M, blah, blah, blah,
Ti khng c khiu ni g v ci tm ny c. Nhng m bc nhc li, th ti
cng xin ni l trong ci ch nh ngha v dogfight ca bc n cho ci tm BVR
khc.

-Cu khng khiu ni g v chuyn ci 15nm ny : ci range ny l bc a

ra y nh. N l 15nm, mt s ngun cho l di 20nm, mt s ngun khc ch
l 12nm. T cho cu ci 15nm y.
Vng, th cng nh ci SIGNINT trc, ci ELINT ny n c ch ra c my
bay i phng u, hng no khng, m dn ng cho F-4 ti nh.
Hay l n cng ch bo c l ang c Mig thi?
ELINT ch ra c ngun ca nhng tn hiu , trong giai on chin tranh
Vit Nam, c th ch ra c th t hng no, nhng thng kh nng phn tch
cc tn hiu khng cho nhiu thng tin v tm vi ngun pht ra cc tn hiu
. Thng F- c bo qua radio dng nh Hai MiG-21 va xut kch t sn
bay no , i theo hng no , nhng khng c th v tm vic dn
ng cth hiu qu v t m nh GCI.
V IFF th thng M lun bt v i hnh bay ca chng ln cn phn bit
nhau. V pha ta, v M c th phn tch ra IFF ca ta, thng tathng tt IFF i,
i hnh vn c mt hai chic bt IFF v i sau i hnh khong cch bao nhiu
mt t c th phn bit khi my bay M.
Nhc li ln na l mt trong nhng l do sinh ra ci ROE y l trnh bn
nhm ln nhau. V ci ny n lm to ci k thut khng chin qu tm nhn.
-Nhc li mt ln na, ROE mang yu t chnh tr v k thut, phn bit khng
ch MiG Vit Nam m c MiG Trung Quc. Vn BVR khng ch n thun vic
bn qu tn la, m c nhng yu t khc nh IFF, AWACS, radar my bay, ng
c, u d tn la nh ni. Nhng hn ch ca ROE thc y nhng tin
b ny ny trong giai on chin tranh Vit Nam.
Ci g cn ang l nghi vn tc l cha c lm r. Cha lm r l ta hay
ch m bn th khng ng vi BVR. Nguyn vn bc vit lc M qu ri,
th g nghi vn l n bn c.
-Chng cn phi tip tc vn vo t ng th ny, nh mn qu, tr phi cu
xem t l thnh cn vit g cng nht nht mi t mi ng u phi theo cu.
T vit cu nhn mnh ROE cui chin tranh b bi do yu t chnh tr.
Th phng php bn th ng c xy dng t CTVN hay t lc no?
Trc chin tranh Vit Nam, pht trin thm trong chin tranh Vit Nam, v ci
tin tip sau chin tranh Vit Nam, khng c chuyn pht trin can b qua giai
on chin tranh Vit Nam, m tht s nhiu pht trin ln bt ngun t nhng
nh gi v AIM-7 trong chin tranh Vit Nam.
Ti v ci trong hay t th vn mp m qu. Trong CTVN, vic p dng BVR
gn nh l nil.
Trong chin tranh Vit Nam vic p dng BVR din ra ln u trn chin
trng thc t, n l 1. Ch c iu tnh hiu qu khng cao.
, nhn tin bc ni chuyn AWAC vi EC-121 p dng trong BVR, cho ti hi

ci. Ci radar cnh gii, ri dn ng caVN cng pht hin ra ch t xa, ri

dn ng cho ta bay t xa vo nh ch. Vy ci radar cnh gii v dn ng
ca ta c th coi nh mt yu t xy dng nn BVR khng? Cng qu tm nhn
c m. Ch thiu mi qu tn la tm xa hn cho Mig-21.
-Mc tiu ca EC-121 hay AWACS ni chung l lm tng nhn thc viu g
ang xy ra trong chin trng. BVR lin quan n nhiu yu t lm nn t
chng nhc i nhc li vi cu l g. AWACS, GCI, hay cc h thng Early
Warning gp phn vo cho BVR. Nhng GCI th theo radar mt t v thng l
trn lnh th phe phng ng hnl k tn cng, nguyn tc ny dng nhiu bi
phe pha ng trong chin tranh lnh. M lphe phe tn cng nn chng cn
AWACS iu khin c i hnh bay.
-Giai on chin tranh Vit Nam mt iu lm AWACS thiu hiu qu so vi
by gi l vic p dng Doppler cha mnh v my tnh yu nn vic phn tch
tch ra mc tiu khng chin chng d dng g, c bit l M c c mt i hnh
my bay ln. Cha k l mc tiu chnh ca M l vo oanh kch min Bc hn l
ch tp trung dit khng qun min Bc nh trong nhng chin dch MiGCAP n
l khc. Early Warning hay GCI th lin quan nhiu n dn ng nhiu, nu
cung cp thm nhiu thng tin to iu kin cho vic MiG-21 bn ch t tm xa
vi tn la tm xa no th c th xem l gip BVR vy. Thi chin tranh Vit
Nam, nh ta MiG-21 v sau ch yu hit-&-run vi ci AA-2 phi bn vo ui
ch, bn trt cng khng t ln.
L do na l v hnh nh chng c trn no SAM-2 v Mig cng nh mt lc
trong khu vc tm ca SAM-2 m thng Mig ln th SAM ngi v ch cho ti
khi Mig xung th phi.
-Ci ny ch u chin tranh giai on 65-66 g khi ta cha kt hp c
phng khng v khng qun vo mt h thng. Phi cng M thng nhc n
giai on ny nh l MiG days v SAM days, sau ny th mi chuyn khc i,
trong topic Ngi phi cng ti hoa, c th nghe bc Nguyn Vn By k v ln b
F-4 ui, ri SAM ta bn nhng chic ui bc y sao , l khi m ta kt
hp c phng khng v khng qun ri.
Th bc ni bao ng l bao ng tng i hay tuyt i vy?
-Chng g bao ng tng i hay tuyt i cu , bao ng l bao ng,
ngha l i bin minh cho c th ai m khng ng vy thi, khi m k cng
khng quan tm my na. T th theo nguyn tc m tham gia cuc tranh lun
ny, bt k l thnh vin no.
y y, nhng trung on ng bn Tip tc chin tranh TT, y l mt vi cc
con s c tit l: Mt vi phi cng t Lin X khc trong CTTT:
Nikolay Shkodin, 5 chin cng (4 F-86 v 1 F-84G). Trong chin tranh TT ng
bay 150 nhim v, v hu vi hm General-Major Yevgeny Pepelyaev, 23 chin
cng, t thnh tch cao nht trong s cc phi cng Lin X CTTT, ng c bit
danh .ch b ca m ln. Mt s phi cng t thnh tch cao: Anatoly Karelin:

9 chin cng (tt c l B-29, chuyn thc hin nhim v tun tiu, Free Hunter )
Nikolay Ivanov (6 F-86), Mikhail Mihin (9 F-86), Nick Sutyagin (23 chin cng), L.
Schukin (hn 10 chin cng), v D. Oskin (hn 10 chin cng). Mt s phi cng
khc t hn 10 chin cng: G. Pulov, G. Ohay, S. Veshnyakov, G. Ges, A.
Boytzow,v D. Samaoylov. Alexandr Smortzkow tr li phng vn: Trc khi ti
bay nhim v cui cng ca chin tranh, ch huy n v ti ra lnh tn cng
Sabres v bay tr v Lin X. Chuyn bay ny ti b thng chn. V Lin X
ti hc mt phi cng M vi ci tn Nga Makhonin. Anh ta b bt cng vi my
bay th h mi F-86. Tht l th v khi hc my bay ca anh ta. Th l chin tranh
kt thc vi ti, nhiu bn b ti cht, h c chn ct Port Artur T s
cao ca Lin X t c do Lin X tn cng nhiu cc my bay nm bom.
Nhng B-29 th t . CH tnh ring MIG-15 v F-86, t s c hai bn cong
nhn l 2:1. Cn phi tnh c hai bn do M ch cng nhn cc my bay ri ti
ch , cn ri trn ng chy v th khng. Trong mt thi gian di, ph Lin X
khng cng b tham chin, thi gian , M tnh khong 800 my bay Lin X b
bn h, iu lvlv s lng my bay Lin X than chin hn ch, sau c
tnh li. C hai bn u tung ra cc phi cng at gii nht ca ww2. ban u, cc
my bay TT v Tu ri nhiu do l cc my bay cnh qut c l. Vic cc phi
cng Lin X lp nhiu chin cong lm sau 1951, M hu nh dng s dng B29. Mt nguyn nhn na dn n vic Lin X thng m l MIG-15 l my bay
tt hn nhiu.
y l mt phn cc t Lin X, do Andrew Mikhailov tit l: Sutyagin N V
21+2 (2 trong i hnh, chin cng tp th) Pepelyaev Ye G 19 (thm 4 chin
cng do cnh gii ca anh lp) Smortzkow A P15 Schukin L K 15 Oskin D P 14
(mt s ngun khc l 11) Ponomaryov M S 14 (mt s ngun khc l 11)
Kramarenko S M 13 Sutzkow 12 Sheberotov N K 12 Bakhayev S A 11
Dokashenko N G11 Ohay G U 11 Pomaz 11 Samoylov D A10 Milaushkin M S10
Pulov G I 10 (mt s ngun l 8) Mihin M I 9 Subbotin S P 9 Zabelin N V 9 Ges G
I 8 (mt s ngun l 9) Fedorets S A 7v mt khng c M cng nhn, trng
hp l phi cng tt nht ca M McConnell ngy 12/04/1953. Babonin N N 7
Zaplavnev I M 7 Ivanov L M 7 (cth l 3 c cng nhn, 1 khng c cng
nhnv2 hng) Bokatz B V 6 Vishnyakov S F 6 Zameskin N M 6 Nikolayev A P 6
Nikulin P F 6 Boitsov A S 6 Hvostontsev V M 6 Abakumov B S 5 Bashman A T 5
Belousov V I 5 Berelidze G N5 Bogdanov G I 5 Gerasimenko N I5 Danilov S D 5
Dmitryuk G F 5 Karelin A M 5 Korniyenko N L 5 Kochegarov A M5 Lepikov V L 5
Naumenko S I5 Obraztsov B A 5 Olenitsa 5 Prudnikov 5 Siskov B N5 Shelamanov
N K 5
h 258 pht.
V phi cng huyn thoi VN Tool (Tun, hay Tomb, Tom). Theo nhiu ti liu,
y l mt phi cng cc k nguy him ca Bc Vit, bn h 17 my bay
M(i phng cng nhn 13). Sau cng, M hun luyn i Top Gun (Tom Hank
ng Randy Cunningham !!!!!!), by mt trn nh tuyt diu v quyt lit, Top
Gun ca Hi qun M tiu dit phi cng huyn thoi ny ca Bc Vit, vi nim

knh trng su sc. Trn nh c coi l c bit quan trng vi chin tranh
trn khng Bc Vit Nam. Trn nh cng c mt bc ng tng thut
trang trng trn t TTVNOL, KTQSNN ni ting. Phi cng huyn thoi, i t Tool
c nhiu wep site ng knh ghi nhn nh l mt phi cng gii bc nht th
gii.
Bnh lun v vic ny, mt bc ni, l Thnh Ging. Ngi thy M h
nhiu my bay ca con chu qu, lin ci MIG-17 i tun (cc phi cng Bc Vit
qu s t hnh MIG cng cho ngi cu bnh yn, do ngi c nga nhm
thay nga st). Khi khng chin, ngi xng tn
Tn. C l, em ch m t v chin tranh TT nh l mt tham chiu, hiu
thm v CTVN. V con s t l 13:1 Mnh Tuv Bc Hn, tham kho thng tin
vn tt, ta tr li VN. Ngy 26 thng 6 nm 1950, qun Bc triu tn cng.
Khng qun Bc Triu trang b cc my bay cnh qut c ca Lin X: the
Lavochkin La-7, Ilyushin Il-10 Sturmovik, v Yakovlev Yak-3, & Yak-7, & Yak-9, &
Yak-18. Chng li cc my bay ny, M s dng fielded F-80 Shooting Stars v F82 Twin Mustangs. Trn mt t, qun Bc Triu y lin quan n vnh ai
Pusan (Nam Hn cn t to) nhng trn khng, qun M lm ch bu tri, bn h
20 my bay cnh qut Bc Triu trong thng u, nhng khng h thm my bay
no khc trong ba thng. My bay MIG-15 c tc trn mt bin ngang F-86,
nhng leo cao tt hn, c cao ln hn, d dng lm ch trn chin. (tc leo
cao gp i) u thng 11 nm 1950, ln u tin MIG vt sng p Lc nh
nhau. Trn b, qun Tu thc su vo l hng mt trn, b gy b binh
MacArthur. Trn khng, MIG qut sch cc my bay my bay c F-80 v cc my
bay cnh qut khc. Thng 12, M mang khng on nh chn4 s dng F-86
Sabre phn lc ti. 17 thng 12, phi on 336 ng chn bt u tn cng thung
lng sng p Lc (li i ca MIG). M tuyn b bn h 800 MIG trong chin
tranh, nhng vt qu s MIG tham chin v nhng nghin cu trong chin tranh
lnh ca M cho thy cn 379, gn ngang con s Lin X l 345. Major George
Davis, 14 trn thng, dn u cc t M, b bn h v cht thang gieng 1952 Guy
Bordelon tr thnh phi cong t ngay trc nh chin, l phi cng t th 40, phi
cng t duy nht li my bay cnh qut. Risner, Low, & Kasler l ba phi cng t
sau tr thnh POW VN.
Mt ln na, ni v con s M thng 10:1 trong CTTT, tham kho cc con s
bit ni sau: The United States Air Force in Korea 1950-1953 ca Robert Futrell.
945 my bay M dc chnh thc cng nhn l mt do tai nn. Con s my do tai
nn khng l nydo M kim tra v hun luyn phi cng khng khip. Aviation
Encyclopedia, 1977, New-York, 2300 my bay cng sn b bn h. Mt 1144
my bay 1176 phi cng cht v 386 b thng trong chin u. Korean-War.com.
Em (huyphuc1981_nb) khng bnh lun thm na. Nhng con s gii
thch 51 phi cng t Lin X do chin tranh ny to ra. Nhng phi cng M qua
t hun luyn cht ngi, ai thi khng qua lin b gio vin bn h. H t n
trnh cao vi, v k cho th h sau vinh quang trong Hilton H Ni m nh

hun luyn nghim khc, h c sau . Nhng phi cng t Lin X, my bay
MIG-15 c ng vi tc leo cao gp i, sng 30mm v 37mm so vi nhng
khu 12mm ca F-86, to nn vinh quang .
Ti khng c ti liu chnh xc, nhng google tm hiu v con s 1:10 th
ngi ta thng gii thch th ny:
T l kill:lost my bay tt c cc loi ca hai bn th gn nh 1:1. Trong
ngun Ma s ni rng my bay M mt ch yu l nm bom.
T l kill:lost Mig15-F88 th nhiu ngun ca M khng nh l 1:10,
nhng ghi ch l a s Mig15 M bn h l do phi cng khng c kinh nghim
ca TQ v BH li. Ngoi ra h cng ni l nhiu my bay ca BHvTQ li tm
xung t trong chin u, do phi cng ko c kinh nghim nn khi xy ra giao
tranh th ln nho my vng ri mt iu khin lun. Tuy nhin d l Tai nn th
h vn tnh vo kill:lost nh thng. Cng nhiu ngun gii thch l phi cng BH
v TQ m li th khi ng trn Wing-man chy lung tung, khng ym tr cho nhau
nn hay cht.
-Do Mig-15 leo cao hn nn phe BH khi i tn cng bay rt cao, bn F-88 nhn
thy nhng nh ng khc. Nu phe BH mun th nho xung nh, bn F-88
lc y mi c c hi. Cn nu Mig c bay trn cao ko xung th F-88 nh chu.
Do Mig c th chn thi im v a im khng chin -thngth h bay
n gia bn nm bom ri mi nho xung nh. Lc b F-88
nh nu rt qu th bay cao ln l xong. Bn M khng nhl Mig doBHvTQ
li th ch nhm nhm nh bn nm bom thi. Cn F-88 th mi hng hc kh th
mun sn Mig.
Tt nhin mi l M ni. Chc chn s c chuyn ba bn ch quy mt con
Mig ri v ch no cng bo mnh bn c :) > ghi nhn 3, 4Mig ri.
Trong cun Lch s Qun chng Phng Khng -Khng qun tp 2 c nhc
n3 ln bn nhm qun ta.
Nhiu ln nghe cc s quan ng Trng Chinh k l do trn chin quyt
lit, my bay ta chy lon v khng ng hnh lang quy nh (hnh lang b
trng khng c ho lc my bay ta theo v sn bay trong khi ch vn ang
truy ui).
Trong thi bnh cng c mt ln s c. u nhng nm 1980, khi cn b,
nhng vn nh my ng phi cng n nh ung ru k chuyn b tn la ta bn
ht. Lc thi bnh. Bin i li loi Mig21G mi tinh, bay thng tng. Vy m
trong ci ri c ci may. Tn la ta nhm l ch nhng li bn trt.
V nhm ln ny th ngay c M vAnh cng dnh thi. Thng 3/2003 ti Iraq,
2 chic Tonado ca Anh bay v sn bay khng ng theo hnh lang quy nh
(hng tip cn+ cao) nn b tn la Patriot ca M t ng bn h v tng
instruders.
Phng khng ca mnh th chun ri hm n nghe bc t k ( mk xin li t

qun mt nm bao nhiu ri )l cch n cp my bay trc thng n ra nh

gia cu Long Bin ri t sang Trung Quc th m bo ng t lc ch bayra
cu Long Bin cc ch phng khng bn ton trt ch kia bay sang bn mt
.Cn mt v na l my bay ch bay m vo ln l my vng bay ra m
rada khng pht hin ra na c . V y tinh thn sn sng chin u khng cao
nn i bc cp cao b ct chc lun.Bc t cng ch lm n Thiu Tng thi,
nghe bc k hi y hnh qun ton i b vo Nam mt bu n 3 thng , khng
dm i o to s n cho qu bom th i cm .
cho d bit trc k no s git ngi, ngn chn k ri b t h l sai
m sai nghim trng y. V nh th l tiu dit freewill ri,
Th nu c mc cho k git ngi th sao, l ng hay l sai?
Cn cu phi xem li ton b m t tranh lun cho, l chuyn t ra lut
cm vy ng hay sai, sai theo ngha tuyt i ca freedom of speech khng ni
ri, sai c trong phm vi tng i ca x hi khi lut nhm c th vo mt
thnh vin, chng th gi l lut c. T khng hi u m i on suy ngh
trong u cu kqndvn, nhng theo t ng t trch m ni: k ph v ngi
lm cho thy cu ta ang quan trng vic cu ta lm, cn cm c th HP hn l
cm chung mi thnh vin vo lng m cu ta cho thy cu ta quan trng ha
vic cm HP lng m, ty dn n s tht l vi phm freedom of speech ca
HP, v ch ra c th l HP trong iu cm l sai.
Ti sao bc li c th ngh ti xem li tranh lun ca bc, trong khi bc
khng hi u, nh bc vit, xemxem ca bc kqndvn l g, v c vi ti trong
mt bi tr li khc? Nu bc c th xem li k hn, th c l bc s thy bc
kqndvn khng phi l quan trng ho ci vic post bi, m nhn mnh ti vic
cm HP vo. Cn sai ? N chng sai g c theo phm vi tuyt i hay x hi g
. Ci freedom of speech ca HP chng h b vi phm d ci cm y n c
hiu lc. HP cth chi by hay lng m ai mt topic no khc. Hoc l
tuyt i hay tng i g y, freedom of speech forum ny,
nh ti vit nhiu ln, khng tn ti theo ci ngha ca freedom of speech
m bc ang bo v. Ch cn bc c ni qui th bc s thy i iu b cm. V
d, trong m bn ti, a no cngc kh nng chi by, nhng c mt tn rt
hay vng tc trong khi ni chuyn. Khi n nh ti, ti hon ton c quyn ni
trc rng ti cm hn ni by trong nh ti. Ti chngvi phm ci freedom of
speech ca ai c. Trong topic ci nhau ca ti, v ti l ngi m topic, ti cm
thy mnh c quyn ngh mi ngi khng kch c nhn. Ti cng hon
ton c quyn cm mi ngi kch c nhn trong topic ca ti. D nhin l ti
khng quyn lc duy tr ci cm , nhng vic cm ca ti cng khng
vi phm ci freedom of speech ca ai c. l topic ca ti, v mi ngi mun
th i ra ch khc m kch nhau. D nhin l ti khng bin n thnh mt
lnh cm, nhng khng phi v l do s vi phm freedom of speech.
T khng c nhm g vo cu, t chng thy cu ni g vi kqndvn khi
cu y a ra lut y . Khi t cng kch chuyn freedom of speech vy th cu

li vo ni cho cu kqndvn, nn t ni cu bao ng vy, t nhc i nhc li

l bt k thnh vin no, nguyn tc l nguyn tc
Khi bc nhn xt v ti (bao ng), th bc nhm vo ti. Cng nh khi bc
cho l ti nh mn v mt iu trong trao i ca chng ta. Khi bc bt u dng
tnh t nh vy, ngha l bc nhm vo c nhn. Ngay ban u, ti khng
bnh vc bc kqndvn. Ti ch nhc bc rng hyxem li nhng tranh ci gn y
gia bc ny vi HP hiu rng l cm gic c nhn ca ngi ta. V ti
mun lu iu v ng bin chuyn c nhn ca ngi ta thnh mt chuyn
rt chung l freedom of speech. D nhin l nh bc vit trn kia, ti khng mun
bit, hay ti khng quan tm No, ban u ti khng bnh vc bc kqndvn
chuyn ny, by gi th ti bnh. Bc vit rng bc cng kch chuyn freedom of
speech. Ni cho r hn, bc mun cng kch bc kqndvn. Chuyn freedom of
speech ch lci c. Ti xem li t bi u tin bc post, v kt lun l bc ch
kim mt ci c. T chuyn bc kqndvn cm HP vo lng m topic ny, bin
thnh chuyn cm freedom of speech ca HP, ri to ln thnh chuyn cm
freedom of speech. Bc khng mun bit hay khng quan tm, v bc cho ti l
bao ng. Vy nn ti mi hi bc bao ng theo ngha tng i hay tuyt i.
Bi v y l chuyn ca bc kqndvn vi HP, c cm th cng ch cm HP, ti sao
bc khng mc h vi nhau. Ti sao phi lm to ra thnh freedom of speech
kim mt ci c tham gia vo. Ti sao bc khng ngh rng chuyn freedom of
speech y c mod lo, v mc n nh th. Ti sao bc khng xem xt
bao ng theo ng ngha ca n, m ch gii hn ci vic l bin minh cho mt
ngi khc m khng ng. Ti sao bc khng ngh ra rng vic bc bin n
thnh freedom of speech khin mi ngi c th ngh rng bc kqndvn hn ch
mi ngi, ging nh bc suy ra t chuyn cm HP.
C g u, cu hc mn Communications cha, khi ta ni hay vit trong mi
trng x hi lcho ta v cng cho ngi khc, th hin t tng ca ta khi vit
th phi dn cho logic mi hu chuyn cc cu c ch, m hu chuyn
ngi khc cng c gi tr cho h v cho c t th t mi lm, n gin ca
nguyn tc give-&-take.
Sh*t! Hate being used!
- l BVR tng i nh t ni, m thc ra cng chng cn tng i hay
tuyt i, c th ni l tin trnh pht trin BVR ni chung. M c tn la AIM-7
BVR lc y, ch l khng tht hiu qu vy thi.
Bi v n khng tht hiu qu nh mt v kh BVR, nn n khng tn ti nh
mt v kh BVR.
-Khng c ci gi l false BVR, ngi ta ni n true/real BVR so snh vi
BVR theo ngha thc nht l c pht hin ra bng mt thng hay cha, nh t
cp n l BVR tng i.
(False BVR!!! ) Tuy nhin phi xem li nh ngha v visual range, theo ngha
hng khng v tr. Ngha bnh thng, hay tng i, th l pht hinra bng

mt thng hay cha. Nhng trong qun s hay hng khng v tr, ngi ta
khng th bo l v ti ang trong my nn visual range ca ti c 3mt c.
-AIM-7E-2 l mu ci tin mang li tnh c ng (agility) cho tn la trong
chin tranh Vit Nam. N vn c th bn mc tiu ngi tm dogfight 5-10km nh
t cp. Cu khng nn ni rng n c ch cho dogfight, nu ni vy xin
php t ch dogfight trong ngoc kp.
Ngi ta vit nguyn bn n l dogfight version. Hin nhin l dogfight yu
cu tnh c ng cao ri.
-Chuyn Navy dy nhau dogfight trong chng trnh Top Gun do nhiu yu t,
c k thut v chnh tr, t khng bit ht v t khng lm vic cho Navy M giai
on . Nu cu hi cu , cng c th hi li cu ti sao AirForce khng dy
nhay dogfight nh Navy giai on . AirForce gp mt phn ln hn trong cc
cuc khng kch min bc
V chuyn lp li sng cho F-4, nhiu yu t thng dn n dogfight trong
chin tranh Vit Nam nh t cp trc y, nu cn cu c th c li.
Gi thit duy nht m ti c th ngh ra c v chuyn Navy dy dogfight
trclv s lng my bay v phi cng t hn airforce. Hun luyn c th cng
tn km hn. My bay phi c yu cu cao hn thch nghi vi hot ng ca
tu sn bay v bin nn c th tn km hn. Chi ph bo tr bo dng tn km
hn do c th hot ng. Airforce sau CTVN cng c dy dogfight thm cho phi
cng. C hai ngnh ny hin vn dy dogfight cho phi cng theo kiu nng cao
nh TopGun. Nh vit, ngi M khi ch to ra tn la AA, h cho rng khng
chin thot khi dogfighting v c quyt nh bi tn la c tm xa hn so
vi sng. y l nguyn nhn chnh khin cho h khng trang b sng cho F4 l
loi tim kch hin i nht ca h giai on u CTVN. Thc t chin tranh VN
cho thy rng dogfighting vn l ch yu v sng vn cn thit. Tm my bay
thm ch gn ti mc thp hn tm safearming ca tn la tm nhit, nn sng l
iu b sung thit yu cho tim kch F-4. Tn la tmxa hn v c iu khin l
AIM-7 th b hn ch bi ROE, do radar iu khin khng phn bit c ch
tavyu cu xc nhn bng mt l thit yu. Thc t ngay tm gn th hiu qu
ca tn la ny cng khng cao. Chuyn phn bit my bay VNvTQ bng mt
thng ci tm km trn khng v tc ca my bay tim kch l chuyn
a. Ch c th nhn ra dng my bay ch markings l Chicom hay PVAF th phi
bay gn st nhau mi nhn bit c.
-Tr li li ln na c c nhng yu t cho BVR bt k l tng i hay
tuyt i. Nu l tuyt i th nh t a ra tm 30km ca AIM-7E l qu
d. Nhng theo ngha tuyt i th cha hiu qu, nu cu li tnh quay li tnh
hiu qu ca AIM-7 giai on cho BVR mt ln na.
Ch l yu t tin cho BVR, nhng nhng yu t ny cha th coi l BVR
- cu bt l HP qua tnh hiu qu ch g u, my con s bao nhiu phn
trm ca

cu vi chuyn dy nhau li dogfight m thc s ch din ra trong Navy M,

blah, blah, blah,
Bt l HP ci ch l K THUT KHNG CHIN QU TM NHN, ci m ti
vi bc ang bn y l PHNG TIN, THIT B K THUT CHO khng
chin qu tm nhn. y l iu m ti mun bc xem li khi ti vit ci ch no
y, lbcxem li xem ti th no. Ti ng rng phng tin k thut cho
khng chin qu tm nhn c bt u pht trin t khng nhng trong, m
cn t trc CTVN. Tuy nhin khi th khi nim BVR cha c nhc ti. Khi
ci AIM-7 ra i, dthi ngi ta mi ch coi l v kh iu khin, nhng c
doctrine cho vic s dng n tm kh xa ca n. Nhng trong CTVN th k
thut khng chin qu tm nhn, theo ci ngha l cch tc chin, bay ln nh
nhau, th khng h c Mo v anh nng dn chn t mt tot cng xy dng
nh ci bc HP y vit. M ci ny th ti vit nhiu ri.
-Cu khng khiu ni g v chuyn ci 15nm ny : ci range ny l bc a
ra y nh. N l 15nm, mt s ngun cho l di 20nm, mt s ngun khc ch
l 12nm. T cho cu ci 15nm y.
iu ch nhn mnh vic bc ch ng a ra mt khong cch ch
khng phi l ti. Tr li v tm, Wikipedia cho rng tm trn 20nm. Vic
ngi ta a ra mt tm c th cho BVR ph nhn vic p dng ci BVR tng
i ca bc. Nu p dng ci BVR tng i, th bay m chng hn, hay l
trong my m, phi cng c th d ra ch bng radar tm rt gn m khng
nhn thy ch, vc th bn h ch bng AIM-9 hay sng. Th l BVR tng i,
ng khng, nhng AIM-9 hay sng th chng bao gi c coi l BVR. Trong
tm gn th ci hnh nn ca khong d ra my bay ch ca AIM-9 cn ln hn
ca radar F-4.
ELINT ch ra c ngun ca nhng tn hiu , trong giai on chin tranh
Vit Nam, c th ch ra c th t hng no, nhng thng kh nng phn tch
cc tn hiu khng cho nhiu thng tin v tm vi ngun pht ra cc tn hiu
. Thng F- c bo qua radio dng nh Hai MiG-21 va xut kch t sn
bay no , i theo hng no , nhng khng c th v tm vic dn
ng c th hiu qu v t m nh GCI.
Ci gc n ca hng tn hiu cng rt rng trn cc thit b ELINT trn my
bay thi . Vic xc nh hng ca Mig vi i hnh cn tu thuc vo v tr ca
Mig v ci my bay ELINT so vi i hnh. V cn xa n mi xc nh c Mig
bay theo hng no.
-Chng cn phi tip tc vn vo t ng th ny, nh mn qu, tr phi cu
xem t l thnh cn vitg cng nht nht mi t mi ng u phi theo cu. T
vit cu nhn mnh ROE cui chin tranh b bi do yu t chnh tr.
Ci vic dng tnh t ni trn. Ci vic nhn dngmy bayTQ vi my
bay VN cng ni trn. M tht bun ci, khi bc sai (nh bc ni th din
t sai) th ti bng nhin tr thnh ngi c li v nh mn (bc 2 ln dng

tnh t ny), cn bc th bng nhin b oan v bc khng phi l thnh thn!!!

Trong chin tranh Vit Nam vic p dng BVR din ra ln u trn chin
trng thc t, n l 1. Ch c iu tnh hiu qu khng cao.
Ch hai trng hp trong s khong 597 qu AIM-7 bn i c cho l c hiu
qu mc BVR. Gp thm c s tn la ca Israel xi trong cc cuc chin tranh
ca h ti trc Gulf war 1, th ch c4 trng hp trong tng s 632 pht c
coi l c hiu qu tm BVR. Hiu qu qu thp ph nhn s tn ti nh l mt
BVR
-Mc tiu ca EC-121 hay AWACS ni chung l lm tng nhn thc viu g
ang xy ra trong chin trng. BVR lin quan n nhiu yu t lm nn t
chng nhc i nhc li vi cu l g. AWACS, GCI, hay cc h thng Early
Warning gp phn vo cho BVR. Nhng
GCI th theo radar mt t v thng l trn lnh th phe phng ng hn l
k tn cng, nguyn tc ny dng nhiu bi phe pha ng trong chin tranh
lnh. M lphephe tn cng nn chng cn AWACS iu khin c i hnh
bay.
Radar cnh gii mt t cng cth coi l mt yu t ca BVR.. Vy ta c th
ni tin ca BVR bt u t WWII, khi radar ca Anh dn ng cho my
bay ca hi dit bomber ca c.
trong topic Ngi phi cng ti hoa, c th nghe bc Nguyn Vn By k v ln
b F-4 ui, ri SAM ta bn nhng chic ui bc y sao , l khi m ta
kt hp c phng khng v khng qun ri.
Oops, nh ri, c trong box ny.
kin ca mt phi cng F4 khc, Aderegg (khng nh spelling, i t v hu,
bay 150 phi v Lo v Bc Vit) v tn la AIM7 dng trong chin trng VN.
Tn sch l Flying airfoce decade after vietnam, 2001.
Ch tm tt i th ny.
1. Aim7 c thit k bn my bay nm bom tm cao, loi to, bay bng ->
khng c thit k chng mc tiu nh, c ng. (large, bomber-type, highattitude).
2. Bn head-on ti a c 10 dm. [1]
3. Tm chin u ca tn la gim rt nhiu khi dng tm thp (greatly
reduce at low attitude, much shorter the range advertized) [2]
4. Bn t pha sau th ch c th bn mc tiu cch 2 dm. Aim-7 mt 20 giy
close up the gap. Trong lc bn rada ca F4 lin tc phi chiu mc tiu [3]
5. F4 c camera c zoom quang hc 10 ln, chiu v hng mc tiu theo
ch nh ca rada gip phi cng nhn dng mc tiu.
6. C Aim7 v Aim9 u perform horriblely.

kqndvn:
Thit k ca Aim-7 tri qua mt qu trnh di. Cc th h cui cng (pht trin
sau chin tranh Vit nam) t n tnh nng (n nh ) tn cng mc tiu ngoi
tm quan st ca phi cng (Beyon Visual Range), c kh nng chng mc tiu
nh c ng bay thp (dng raa mi). Ni chung trong chin tranh Vit nam, cc
s liu u cho thy ngay c tm cn chin, Aim7v 9 cng km hiu qu,
khng tin cy (unreliable), nn chc chn khng th c dng rng ri cho BVR
attacks.
[1] tm cao th tn la bn head-on c ti a 12 dm theo ng
thng -theo quyn Cc trn khng chin trn bu tri Bc Vit 65-72.
Trong ti liu hng dn chi game Su-27 Flanker c ni tm maximum range
ch c hiu l khi tn la phng khi my bay mang bay vi tc cao, trn
cao ln. cao c gim i 4,000m th tm bay ca tn la gim i mt na.
Mc tiu cng c ng gcth tm xa ca tn la cng gim. (trch tham kho
-khng phi ti liu chnh thng).
[2] Theo K s qun chng phng khng -khng qun, tp 2, cng v sau cc
trn khng chin cng xung thp, v cc thp. Trn nm bom tr a tn la
Sui Hai sau ngy 24/07/66 ch bay t Lo sang ch cao 18m
L do ch xung thp l trnh rada pht hin, trnh tn la bn, v trnh
cao x (nhiu n v cao x phi bt c thnh cng s ngay lc chin u bn
my bay ch bay thp) -> to th bt ng.
Nm 1966 ta phi hun luyn c bit mt s phi cng chin u cao
100-200m i ph (hai phi cng Mig 17 phi cng V ? Mn v Bin l hai
ngi thc hnh t hc k thut bay ny u tin); Trong khi thng thng ta
chin u trn 1.000 tr ln- cao nhy d an ton.
Trong nhng ngy u chin u, bit trnh phi cng ta thp do s gi bay
luyn tp hn ch, ch d ta xung thp, nhiu phi cng khng lm ch c
tc v tay li m vo a vt, phi cng hy sinh. Mi n trn chm trn th 3
v th 4 ta c hai phi cng m ni: Trn 16/06/65 phi cng L m ni hi
sinh, ngay trn sau phi cng Vn Lai cng m a vt hy sinh [m my hnh
li ba -L thnh Chn -cn b dn ng qun chng KQ], sau ny cn c phi
cng Phc hy sinh 14/12/1967 [Hi k anh hng KQ L Hi]. Ngoi ra cn nhiu
trng hp m a vt hy sinh khc c c v c nghe truyn ming.
V trn tn la Vit nam ra qun nh thng trn u 24/07/65, S kin v
Nhn chng (thuc bo qun i nhn dn) cch y khong 5 nm c bi
(ln u tin) cho bit m bo chc thng ly kh th ra qun, trong trn chin
u ny, s quan tn la ca Lin x trc tip thao tc.
[3] Thi gian chiu rada vo mc tiu (lock-on) ko di 20 giy l rt lu. Nu
Mig c ng mt bng th F4 truy ui c th b close-up, nu Mig c ng mt
phng dc xung thp ri li tri ln m khng bay n nh trong layer ca F4

rada th chc chn rada F4 mt lock mc tiu. > Aim7 hay b mt tham s >
poor performance.
y, rt nhiu bc ni ting Vit ca ngi F-86, cn nhng ngi Vit th go
ln, bo v bng c t s 10:1 M thng. Chc, ch c mt cch tr li.
Cu lm n ch gim ti Y, ai ca ngi F-86, v ca ngi nh th no? Cu
lm n ch gim ti xem ngi Vit no go ln bo v ci t s 10:1 M thng.
Hay l cu ch bit ni ng nh vy cho ngi ta nhm rng cu ang lm
mt ci vic rt l cao c trong khi nhng ngi khc go ln ci iu ngc li.
Topic ny m u bng mt cu, CTTT khng qun M thng khng qun Nga
li MG vi t s 10:1.
Cu th m to mt xem li xem ch no trong ci m u ca topic ny c
ci on khng qun M thng khng qun Nga li Mig vi t s 10:1? y l ci
dng u tin cp ti chuyn ny trong topic ny
Triu tin, F-86 ca M h Mig-15 phn ln do phi cng Nga li vi t l
tiu dit 10:1
M to mt ra m nhn, n khng phi l ci dng m u topic. N cng
khng ni mt cch n
gin rng khng qun M thng khng qun Nga 10:1 nh cu ba ra trn.
V cu xem li xem l ngi ni ting Vit ang go ln, hay ngi ta ang
dch nguyn vn t sch? Cn cu th hy xem li bi ca cu m thy rng
cu ba ra hay tuyn truyn ci chuyn khng qun Nga thng khng qun M
10:1 (Sau , Lin X thnh lp mt n v c bit tham chin trc tip, cc phi
cng bt buc ni ting TT hayTQ. T l c mt ca n v ny ln n gn
10/1. T l ny thc t cn cao hn na, v y l cc con s c hai bn cng
nhn khi Lin X gii mt ti liu. Thc t cao hn v M ch cng nhn my bay
bmt do khng chin khi my bay ri ti trn, cn nu my bay l lt ra khi
khng gian trn nh th M tnh l tai nn-trch bi HP). Hay y l ti liu gii
mt dnh cho ngi ln?!!!
Em li cn b xo bi vit v phn i iu na ch.
ng c gi v ng nv ti nh th. Bi cu ban u b xo v hai l do.
Th nht l kch c nhn, th hai l lc . Cu hy xem li trong topic v
pho cng th, cu th ra chc ngi ta mt cu, n khi ngi ta phn ng li
th li vit mt bi rng ti sao khng tranh lun ci ch dnh cho tranh lun,
y v ng n. Ti topic thc mc k thut mi m, cu cng khng qun vit
ng my cu, v chc ngi ta. Cu khng ng n nh cu lm ra vu. Ch
ti nghip cu mt iul cng nh trn, cu ch dm ni ng th thi. Kiu
nh c ngi go ln. Ha ha ha
Em c mt c bit l ci topic ca emcc trn chin lm thay i c cu
chin hm th chn mi ch ai vo. Cn nhng topic cc bc ra em tham gia
th n tung to. Ci HK100 nm ca bc n hnh Ty ny, M x tn la cu bc

c x ny, AT-14 ca bc sli0471. Gn y bc c sy v bc kqndvn li m hai

topic hp dn, em thanh gia mt ci l s ngi c ng ngay, liu c t c
nh hk100nm khng nh, t ra cng bng AT-14 hay m x ch nh. Em vit m,
hay phi bit bc kqndvn nh, , cm n em i ch.
Oh my god!
Huyphuc1981_nb thn mn! Cu bit khng, hi cu bm khng post bi
c, c ci din n ny vng nh cha b anh. Chng cma no vo. Ai cng
nng lng ch ngy cu quay liblah blah blah.May qu cu tr li. Cu
hy tip tc xo nu cho nhiu HP nh! Chn thnh cm n nhiu lm! Thn i v
quyt thng!
Cu ht cch ri hay sao m phi t vut ui mnh th ny? Hay l cu ang
c ni rng cu khng c kh nng m mt topic ca ring mnh cho ra hn m
phi nh vo ch ca ngi khc m ra? Cu c th ngng ci din n ny
m xem ngi ta cn vo y hay l ngh ht?!!!
To bc c sy, em bo em dch nguyn vn. Cn em khng tuyn truyn,
mnhng li cm thn ca em in nghing, phn bit, cn ti sao em cm thn,
bc c li trang trc.
Ci in nghing vit ring ca cu th mi bt chc bc kqndvn gn y thi.
Hi cu rng ci on anh nng dn chn t mt tot y, m ti trch nhiu
ln, th in nghing hay in thng, dch nguyn vn t ci ti liu no. Ci n
37mm lp tn la t bn ta tm chc km, khng trng th n cng cht, ri
khi n l tm 4,7 km th bin thnh n xuyn bay chc km ti ht vng
t lm cht ngi, th cu dch u, hay l ti liu mi gii mt ca Lin X.
Hay ci sng cao x 37mm bn h tng ci tm m pho tng ch l sng kp
th cu dch ch no. Rixa hn na, chin thut/chin lc ca TQ l bin
ngi, nhng CTTT th TQ thng M khng phi v chin thut/chin lc TQ
hay m v TQ ng qun hn M, th l in nghing hay in thng, sn phm sng
to ca cu hay dch tu?
Th nu c mc cho k git ngi th sao, l ng hay l sai?
Ni n th m cu vn khng hiu nh, ngha n gin l ci gi l bit
trc l ngy bin. Con ngi suy ngh c free hay khng l do khng b tc
ng bi c th mt tp hp cc yu t no, ngay c ca chnh bn thn, nn
mi gi l chng ta c quyn la chn, make choice, theo thi im. Nu gi l
bit chc ai s git ngi, mngay c chnh k git ngi cn cha bit trc,
ri nh kh trc ngn chn h m nht nht cho l ng, th ci k lm iu
ngn chn khng t mnh vo v tr ca k s git ngi suy ngh. p
t suy ngh ca mnh ln k khc chc chn l vi phm freewill. Tip , xem
chuyn ngn chn ca mnh l ng th k phi dng nguyn tcx hi v
chuyn git ngi, git ngi bng gm dao cht ngay c th thy, trn i ny
khi k git nhau dn mn, chng nguyn tcx hi no nh r c th no l
git nhau kiu y, ch l vn mc . Nn ci k ngn chn t gn gi tr

ca mnh theo mt tp hp gi tr no phn ng, k khng c freewill,

m ch l mt c my khng hn khng km. Ci m ky gi l ng chng
mang gi tr g nhn nhn.
l ni theo kiu trit hc, cn thc t vn , chngc g gi l bit trc
tng lai cu c th ngy bin cho vic cm HP. Nn vn chng th no
ng khi ngn cn HP vt trc thi gian kiu , cha k rng HP cth ch
phn ng li chuyn cm on .
Ti sao bc li c th ngh ti xem li tranh lun ca bc, trong khi bc
khng hi u, nh bc vit, xem xem ca bc kqndvn l g, v c vi ti trong
mt bi tr li khc?
Cu c quyn make choice m, chng lin quan g n t hi li t th ny
.
Nu bc c th xem li k hn, th c l bc s thy bc kqndvn khng phi l
quan trng ho ci vic post bi, m nhn mnh ti vic cm HP vo.
Nh t ni, tnh gi theo t ng cu kqndvn vit, t khng nh gi theo
suy ngh thc ca cu y,v t khng bit nhng suy ngh. Nhng nhng t
ng ti thi im mang li nh hng x hi c th -qua vic quan trng
ha c chuyn cm HP v chuyn cu y ang lm (k ph v ngi lm).
Cu nh gi gip cu y v chuyn cu y thc s quan trng ci g nh cu
trn, nn c th xem l v on vy, khng c gi tr g vi t.
Cn sai ? N chng sai g c theo phm vi tuyt i hay x hi g . Ci
freedom of speech ca HP chng h b vi phm d ci cm y n c hiu lc.
HP c th chi by hay lng m ai mt topic no khc. Hoc l tuyt i hay
tng i g y, freedom of speech forum ny, nh ti vit nhiu ln, khng
tn ti theo ci ngha ca freedom of speech m bc ang bo v.
Vn HP vn thc thi c freedom of speech chng lin quan g n s
tht l chuyn cm vn sai, nhc li ln na. Freedom of speech da trn tn
trng ln nhau, t ng b ra ngoi lng m trong mi trngx hi. Nhng
cng v th b ra ngoi nt vic cm trc tip mt thnh vin no . Ch ra trc
tip k cm thay v p dng chung cho mi thnh vin l sai, khng th gi l lut
m c ngha g. Cng ci ln na v chng c c s no thc hin iu
cm , cth xem l chuyn cm c th to lao, bun ci hn cu li ni
gip cu kqndvn l cu ta quan trng chuyn cm HP y l ng.
V d, trong m bn ti, a no cng c kh nng chi by, nhng c mt
tn rt hay vng tc trong khi ni chuyn. Khi n nh ti, ti hon ton c quyn
ni trc rng ti cm hn ni by trong nh ti.
Cu ni c nhn mt cch trc tip vi bn cu th ok, em ra cho bng dn
thin h khp ni trn mng, c c ngi cha bit g v HP hay ng h HP l
sai. Chuyn cu ni vi bn cu c gi tr v bn cu ngng ni byl do bn cu
tn trng cu hoc nh gi cao quan h vi cu. y chc hn HPv mt s

ngi khc chng c nhng n hu cho cu hoc cu kqndvn, vic cu ni

chng c gi tr thc thi g.
Ti chng vi phm ci freedom of speech ca ai c.
Chng ai ni g cu c, t tranh lun v vn freedom of speech lin quan
n chuyn cm HP ca cu kqndvn.
Trong topic ci nhau ca ti, v ti l ngi m topic, ti cm thy mnh c
quyn ngh mi ngi khng kch c nhn. Ti cng hon ton c quyn
cm mi ngi kch c nhn trong topic ca ti.
iu ny hon ton ng, cu c quyn ni hoc cm chung mi ngi,
trng hp t cp n sai do ch ra c th l ch cm HP, vi phm freedom of
speech. Nu c th cm c th HP ln ny, ln sau c th ch ra c th k khc
trong ng cnh khc, ci ny khng th gi l hp l v lut trong mi trngx
hi.
Khi bc nhn xt v ti (bao ng), th bc nhm vo ti. Cng nh khi bc
cho l ti nh mn v mt iu trong trao i ca chng ta. Khi bc bt u dng
tnh t nh vy, ngha l bc nhm vo c nhn.
n gin thi, lin quan n chuyn tranh lun freedom of speech, bt k l
thnh vin no, trong trng hp ny t nhm c th vo kqndvn, chng c cu
trong . Khi cu vo bnh cho cu kqndvn qua chuyn dng hay khng, th t
nhm vo cu l bao ng. By gi cu cng nhn l cu bnh cho cu
kqndvn (by gi th ti bnh), th t ni cu sai nt v chuyn freedom of
speech vy.
Bc vit rng bc cng kch chuyn freedom of speech. Ni cho r hn, bc
mun cng kch bc kqndvn. Chuyn freedom of speech ch lci c.
Nh t ni bt k thnh vin no, c th trong trng hp ny t cng kch
cu kqndvn v vn freedom of speech. T cng kch cu y ng trong phm
vi vn freedom of speech, khng cn ni thm. Cu by gi li bao ng i v
on suy ngh trong u t ri.
Bi v y l chuyn ca bc kqndvn vi HP, c cm th cng ch cm HP, ti
sao bc khng mc h vi nhau
Nh ni, nguyn tc l nguyn tc, t khng quan tm c th l ai.
Ti sao phi lm to ra thnh freedom of speech kim mt ci c tham gia
vo. Ti sao bc khng ngh rng chuyn freedom of speech y c mod lo,
v mc n nh th.
Nh ni t lnh vin ca box, chuyn ng gp vo nhng vn chung
ca box l quyn v ngha v, bt k thnh vin no, cn th tranh lun thi.
Ti sao bc khng ngh ra rng vic bc bin n thnh freedom of speech
khin mi ngi c th ngh rng bc kqndvn hn ch mi ngi, ging nh bc
suy ra t chuyn cm HP.

Chuyn cu kqndvn c hn ch mi ngi tht hay khng, t khng r, t

khng v on, nhng t ng cuta do c hiu qu tht l hn ch mi ngi
bng cch ch ra c th thnh vin no b cm. Ci ny r rng qua t ng, t
khng cn phi khn ai c.
Sh*t! Hate being used!
Whatever, chng ai ci vi cu. Chuyn vng tc ca cu gi cho ring cu
nu l ngi c o c, y ng ngi khng ch c t.
Bi v n khng tht hiu qu nh mt v kh BVR, nn n khng tn ti nh
mt v kh BVR.
Cui cng, chy quanh mt hi, ri cu cng cng nhn ang ni tnh hiu
qu nh. Nh ni t ch ni chuyn p dng BVR ln u, khng nh gi hiu
qu, cng nhn rng n khng hiu qu trong chin tranh Vit Nam, nhng
l do nhiu iu kin. Mt trong nhng iu kin HP a ra l ta c cch
nh hiu qu hn ch BVR ca M. BVR ca M l v kh lc , ch c iu
thiu thc nghim, v tr nn khng hiu qu khi bp li bi cc chin thut
khng chin ca KQND Vit Nam.
(False BVR!!!)
Tr con qu, bun ci.
Ngha bnh thng, hay tng i, th l pht hin ra bng mt thng hay
cha. Nhng trong qun s hay hng khng v tr, ngi ta khng th bo l v
ti ang trong my nn visual range ca ti c 3 mt c.
T ch ra tm khi phm vi dogfight ni v BVR tng i, 5km-10km.
Ngi ta vit nguyn bn n l dogfight version. Hin nhin l dogfight yu
cu tnh c ng cao ri.
Nhc li dogfight trong ngoc kp.
Gi thit duy nht m ti c th ngh ra c v chuyn Navy dy dogfight
trc lv s lng my bay v phi cng t hn airforce. Hun luyn c th cng
tn km hn. My bay phi c yu cu cao hn thch nghi vi hot ng ca
tu sn bay v bin nn c th tn km hn. Chi ph bo tr bo dng tn km
hn do c th hot ng. Airforce sau CTBVB cng c dy dogfight thm cho
phi cng.
Cu c gi ci gi thit ca cu, ch l mt trong s nhiu iu m thi.
Thng trong cc bi vit ca phi cng M th ngi ta ni n nhng yu t
quan liu, c hu mang tnh chnh tr trong AirForce M. Mt s khc th ni rng
do Navy ng trn MiG-17 vi chin thut bnh xe (wagon wheel) nhiu hn, nn
h thc y vic hun luyn dogfight. Tm li l nhiu yu t khng nh gi ht
c. Ch ni chung chung l hun luyn thm, v a c nm nh cu th ai
chng ni c, chnh thc th cch hun luyn m hnh C (Red Flag so
vi Top Gun) trong AirForce thnh hnh sau chin tranh Vit Nam.

Nh vit, ngi M khi ch to ra tn la AA, h cho rng khng chin

thot khi dogfighting v c quyt nh bi tn lac tmxa hn so vi sng.
y l nguyn nhn chnh khin cho h khng trang b sng cho F4 l loi tim
kch hin i nht ca h giai on u CTVN. Thc t chin tranh VN cho thy
rng dogfighting vn l ch yu v sng vn cn thit.
Ngi M lc ch trng n mt cuc chin quy m ln, c dng n v
kh ht nhn, v din ra trong vi ba ngy, nn yu t dogfight d l truyn thng
vo giai on v tn la hon ton mi, yu t dogfight b b qua nhiu.
Nhng chin tranh Vit Nam thc t cho thy dogfight din ra nhiu v y l mt
cuc chin tranh cc b, nh ph min Bc mang tnh ph hoi, nn gn nhau
gia hai siu cng lc , to iu kin cho nhiu dogfight. Trong bi cnh
chin tranh ht nhn, th dogfight chng mang bao nhiu ngha ri, ci quan
trng lc l bo ton mt air fleet cng ln cng tt trn tri, v nhng chin
thut khng chin ca tac l cng s khng cn nhiu ngha. Chuyn b qua
sng ng l dotin tng nhiu vo tn la, nhng ni vy cu xem li l bn
thn M tin tng nhiu vo AIM-7 BVR qua th nghim, iu kin chin tranh
Vit Nam khng cho php n hiu qu. Nhng n c p dng ln u y
ch.
Bt l HP ci ch l K THUT KHNG CHIN QU TM NHN, ci m ti
vi bc ang bn y lPHNG TIN, THIT B K THUT CHO khng
chin qu tm nhn. y l iu m ti mun bc xem li khi ti vit ci ch no
y, lbc xem li xem ti th no.
Vn l t k thut cng d hiu nhm lm, t th hiu k thut theo ngha
chung l c cc thnh t c bn s dng v kh BVR. D nhin, c nhng yu
t ca hon cnh, nh chin tranh Vit Nam bnh hng nhiu bi a hnh,
thi tit, cch nh tr ca i phng. Nhng ni th th li qu rng ri. V nu
vy c thi ny c true BVR ri, nhng nu M khng chin nh Nga, Nga c
thit b no y, nh gy nhiu, hoc bn mt qu SAM ht nhn, lm t lit ht
my h thng in t, chng cn bao nhiu hiu qu ca BVR, th dng lp lun
nh cu t cng c th ni l by gi cha c K Thut khng chin BVR. Nn t
c th ng vi cu l HP c th cao hiu qu BVR thi qu, nhng t
vn khng nh rngBVR p dng ln u trong chin tranh Vit Nam. Phng
tin k thut th nh cu v t ng , xy dng u tin t trc chin tranh
Vit Nam.
iu ch nhn mnh vic bc ch ng a ra mt khong cch ch
khng phi l ti. Tr li v tm, Wikipedia cho rng tm trn 20nm. Vic
ngi ta a ra mt tm c th cho BVR ph nhn vic p dng ci BVR tng
i ca bc.
Ngi ta vn phn bit true BVR y thi, r rng, chng ai so BVR vi mi
dogfight (tm 3 km), c mt khong xm gia hai ci theo ngha tng i.
Ci tm c th cho BVR cng l ni n trng hp tuyt i tri trong xanh, iu
kin thi tit tt ny n. RIng v c th n l bao nhiu th nhiu sites cho nhiu

thng s khc nhau, cu c ln Google hay Yahoo g g BVR thm vo con s

l ra, chng cn phi bt b th ny.
Cn tu ch ni p dng BVR tng i trong chin tranh Vit Nam, t ni
l bt k tng i hay tuyt i, cu c hiu nh l tuyt i i, t nhc i
nhc li ci tm 30km ca AIM-7 cho t ni lp dng BVR ri m, ch c iu
theo ngha tuyt i th n khng hiu qu, nhng khng phi v th m n thnh
dogfight.
Ci gc n ca hng tn hiu cng rt rng trn cc thit b ELINT trn my
bay thi . Vic xc nh hng ca Mig vi i hnh cn tu thuc vo v tr ca
Mig v ci my bay ELINT so vi i hnh. V cn xa n mi xc nh c Mig
bay theo hng no.
Cu ch phng on, cn s tht th ELINT cho thng tin v hng bay ca
MiG ta trong chin tranh Vit Nam th nhiu, chng cn phi tranh ci viu ny,
cc sch khng chin Vit Nam u c ni n iu ny. Chng mt thi gian
tranh lun v ny lm g. Nh t ni hn ch c bn l xc nh tm xa n
MiG v cao ca MiG.
Ci vic dng tnh t ni trn. Ci vic nhn dng mybayTQ vi my
bay VN cng ni trn.
ROE khng phi khng thay i xuyn sut chin tranh Vit Nam. Phi cng
M thng ni vi v l tt c do ROE, c y nh rng chng n t hiu qu ch v
rng buc bi chnh tr. Nhng ROE thay i theo cuc chin, gin dn ra, khng
b buc nh lc u, n cui cuc chin th gn nh khng cn.
Ch hai qu trong s khong 597 qu AIM-7 bn i c cho l c hiu qu
mc BVR. Gp c s tn la ca Israel xi trong cc cuc chin tranh ca h ti
trc Gulf war 1, th ch c 4 pht trong tng s 632 pht c coi l c hiu
qu tm BVR. Hiu qu qu thp ph nhn s tn ti nh l mt BVR
Chng bit cu kim u ra my con s ny, c phi li ni l ba nh v radar
ba trc khng. T ni ri t khng quan tm chuyn hiu qu, t chng cho
v d ban u ln bn trng thc t chin trng ngoi 25 nm c cng nhn
u tin trong chin tranh vng Vnh ln mt l g, nhng vic p dng u tin
vn l chin tranh Vit Nam. V nhiu ci tin t chin tranh Vit Nam mang li
cho BVR thi nay, khng nhy cc qua giai on chin tranh Vit Nam, l t
tranh lun cho ban u v s lun l th.
Radar cnh gii mt t cng c th coi l mt yu t ca BVR.. Vy ta c th
ni tin ca BVR bt u t WWII, khi radar ca Anh dn ng cho my
bay ca hi dit bomber ca c.
Cu thch tip tc vi cc lp lun tr con ca cu th tip tc thi. C iu t
khng quan tm my loi cu kiu ny.
To kqndvn: Cu c tip tc cng vic ca cu i, t cng c sch nh cu,
t cng bit vy. Nhng t khng c thi quen sp hay v hnh theo mt on

no li cun qun chng. Ch l nh ca c nhn t cho cu. Anyway, my

point has been clear.
Topic ny m u bng cu Khng qun M thng Nga 10: TT. Ri tip
hng lot bi cho rng, Nga v VN t trc gi ton tuyn trn u, ri t ra ngc
nhin khi pht hin ra M tuyn truyn. r y, hiu thm v cc trn khng chin
trn bu tri Min Bc, em ni thm v mt cuc chin trn khng, n nm 1997
l tuyt mt. Chin tranh VN, c trn khong cng nh trn b, u tip tc c
bi v cc th h chnh quyn M ni nhau ch du d lun, bng nhng truyn
truyn ba t, b cong lch s. Mt trong nhng b cong ca h l chin tranh
m em ni n. Vng, nhng phi cng M n VNv tng rng h l t tht
s, ri tr thnh MIA, POW. Nu nh nhng ngi M nc M khng b
che du tht bi thm hi, trong cc cc chin tranh v ngha cu qun i h, th
nhng ngi lnh ca h khng phi sang VN ri tr v nc biu tnh chng
chin tranh. Cc bc c bit c s tht v con s 10:1 . M mt nhiu
hn2 ln s my bay cc loi. Trong , khng chin gia my bay mnh nht
ca h. F-86 M thua khong 1:2. Phi cng Soviet lp k tch, ct cnh 1,5 ln
th bn h 1 my bay trn khng. Trong ci ti liu s hc quan trng nht, ngi
M lin tip ba ra cc con s kinh hn v chin thng ca h trong cuc chin b
mt ny, bin minh v tip tc chin tranh VN
y l bi bo ng trn tp ch nghin cu khng lc th gii nm 1998.
Bi bo s dng nhng d liu va c tit l t lu tr ca Phng Khng
Soviet (VVS), d liu tht s v chin tranh trn khng Bc Triu Tin m c
hai bn u gi kn vi bn cc oan h ho ww3. Bi bo c ni n vic khng
qun Soviet n lc bt sng my bay M F-86 Sabre bng cch m n h cnh
trn sn bay pha Soviet. Nhm mc tiu nghin cu my bay ny. M tuyn b
rng h thng 10:1 trong khng chin trong chin tranh Triu Tin, v cuc chin
tranh nh l t hun luyn ln vi cc phi cng M. iu c ng thanh
tng ng ca nhiu nh
^=^ ng Hong Hi ^=^
.
s hc phng Tyvhi k ca cc phi cng M, n n mt iu nh l
MIG-15 c tnh nng yu hn F-86. Ri diu pht trin, ngi ta coi nh l cc
my bay M khc nhau trong chin tranh TT c nng lc vt tri MIG-15. Nhn
cung, cc nh s hc phng Ty trnh ni n nguyen nhn lm Phi cng M
nhiu kinh nghim hn trong chin tranh ny. Bi v mt iu n gin l khng
c g chng minh iu , n gin l diu sai. S tht l, cc phi cng
Soviet ct cnh khong 3,5 triu chuyn bay trong WW2. Con s nhiu gp
2-3 ln tng s chuyn bay ca cc phi cng M trong ww2. (Chim Phng
Hong , Vn Ha-de-sty). Trong khi s phi cng t M trong chin tranh th
gii2 bn h chtrn 20 ln ch hn hai t th s phi cng Soviet lm c iu
l hng trm ngi (Phi cng t Lin X trong chin tranh th gii 2, Hugh
Morgan, Chinh ng tri, 1998). Mt s tht quan trng na l, cc phi cng Lin

X tham chin Cao Ly l i hnh tt nht VVS c th to c. Rt nhiu phi

cng t hng u ca Lin X trong chin trang th gii2 tham gia, ch huy hay
trc tip bay. Thi i phn lc bt u, nhng v kh vn l nhng i bc v
sng my ca my bay cnh qut, cc c im chnh ca trn khng chin vn
khng thay i nhiu so vi WW2-hu ht nhng khng phi tt c. Mt s vn
c trnh by di y ni ln iu , nh l mt i hnh ln m khng
ch n k nng ca tng phi cng. Nhng khc bit ln trong kinh nghim ca
cc phi cng t ww2, vn tip tc ging th trong chin tranh Cao Ly. Nhng
chng lch trnh cho php phi cng Sovit thu c t s thng li ln.
Trong chin tranh Cao Ly, phi cng ca Phng Khng Soviet
Ct cnh 1872 ln
Bn h 1106 my bay cc loi do M sn xut
Trong bn h 650 F-86 Sabres
Trong chin tranh Cao Ly, M mt F-86 Sabres ch yu bi my bay MIG-15
bn h-V kh Nga -cin tranh v ha bnh, Vlaimia Babyx, 1997. (HP: iu
th d nhin, v F-86 l my bay khng chin, h tng cc my bay nm bom hay
ch ng khiu chin vi MIG.). Trong chin tranh Cao Ly, phi cng nh ca M
l MacConnel bn h 16 MIG cn phi cng nh ca Lin X- Sutyagin bn h 23
pht. S phi cng t t c sau chin tranh Cao Ly ca M l 40 ca Lin X l
51. Lin X mt khong 10 chic MIG khi khngtham chin ti Cao Ly, trong
M mt 945 chic theo tuyn b chnh thc ca cnh ph M, iu minh chng
r rng cho s chn lch trnh ca phi cng hai nc. Ti sao c con s mt
khng l, ch c mt cch gii thch: cc phi cng M Cao Ly qua mt bi
thi khc nhit n cht ngi: h b cc gio vin bn h nu khng qua bi-min
bnh lun. Ngay cc con s bo co ca khng qun M v tuyn b chnh thc
ca nh nc M cng mu thun n v l. Khng qun M ni h h khong
800 my bay Sovit, trong s c 576 do khng chin (231 my bay Trung Quc
v Bc TT), cn bch khoa hng khng 1977, New-York ni, h bn h 2300
my bay Cng Sn. l nhng cu th c tnh khi vit lch s-ln hn nhiu s
my bay Cng Sn c th c y. Sau ny, nh nc M nh chnh li, h
c 976 my bay, ri tip tc chnh h h xung 935 my bay, vn cn cao hn
nhiu con s thc t. Vn theo nhng g m chnh ph Mnh chnh sau ny, M
mt 1035 my bay, trong 816 my bay ri do trng n mt t, 147 my bay
mt do khng chin, 72my bay mt do khng r nguyn nhn. (Khng lc Hoa
K trong chin tranh Cao Ly 1950-1953, Robert Futrell). iu vn mu thun
vi con s bt buc phi cng khai: trong chin tranh Cao Ly, M mt 1144 my
bay, 1176 ch cht, 386 ch b thng. Korean-War.com Ed Evanhoe. Cc nghin
cu ca M, d rt c gng, cng ch a con s my bay Cng Sn h c
ln khong gn 400 ci.
Thng 11 nm 1959, MIG-15 do phi cng Lin X li n vng bin gii Trung
Quc Triu Tin. Cc n v t phng khng Lin X n y c tp hp li
thnh Tp on khng qun chin u(IAK) 64. Cui thng 11, h trc tip

tham chin. Khi h tham chin, vic kim sot bu tri ca khng qun M t
c t thng 6 nm 1950 b chn ng. Khng qun Lin X hon ton lm ch
bu tri pha nam sng Aps Lc, ni ssau ny c gi l thung lng ca
MIGvng nguy him nht vi my bay M.
Tht l khng may, khng c s liu r rng so snh thng vong hai bn
thi k thangd 1112 nm 1950, do cc nh s hc phng Ty trnh ni n
thi ny, a ra cc con s khng r rng. Tuy nhin, mt iu khng th ci
c l, my bay MIG-15 c thit k mt cch k lng, khng tn nhiu cng
bo dng, vt tri trong khu vc n lm nhim v. Khng c g kh khn khi
MIG bo v vng tri bc Cao Ly, MIG rt hiu qu khi ngn chn my bay nm
bom ch, tin hnh nh chn as B-26, B-29, F-80 and F-84, MIG buc cc my
bay ny phi nm bom i c hay chy trn. Hu ht cc trng hp MIG tin
hnh in mt cch n gin, n baycao hn v chn u. iu buc M
phi em F-86 ti Cao Ly thng 12 nm 1950, iu m ng l h phi lm ngay
t u chin tranh. Thng 12, F-86 thc hin nhim v u tin t sn bay
Kimpho, nam Seoul. Cuc ng u gia MIG-15 v F-86 u tin di ra ngy
17-12-1950, chin cng u tin thuc v Bruce Hinton phi on 336, son
khng qun nh chn 4, bn h mt nhn vin k thut Soviet l Yakov
Efromeyenko, son khng qun
50. Ba ngy sau, chic F-86 u tin b h bi Ivan Yurkevich trong on
khng qun cn v 29, son 50. Trong cc bo co ca M, chic F-86 u
tin ri mt ngy sau . Ngy 22, sau c cc c quan tuyn truyn phng
Ty qung co rm r l ngy ca Sabres , khng qun M t chc nhiu trn
nh chng li son 50. Ngy , cc bo co ca M ghi 5F-86v 6 MIG ri,
trong khi thc t ch c 1 Sabre v 2 MIG. Trong mt thng ri trc khi Sabre
tham chin v xut hin thung lng MIG, ch 3 MIG ri, s my bay MIG ri
2tun sau cnhiu hn., khi F-86 tham chin.
Tm th nhy
Cc bc c c c bi tng kt v vin tr qun s ca LX v TQ cho Vit
nam giai on 6072 khng nh?
Va hm qua c Vnn in t, hm nay i u mt.
on u ca tng kt c th xem c y:
http://www.quandoinhandan.org.vn/right.php?id_new=43138
on hai c nu c th bao nhiu sng ng, pho binh, my bay, tu chin, xe
c cc loi. Theo on , tng s my bay LX vin tr cho VN l >300 chic v
TQ vin tr l ~150 chic. Tuyt i a s pho do TQ vin tr. Xe tng v thit
gip gn 4,000 chic hai bn vin tr gn gn nh nhau. Tn la ~10,000 n
SAM2 v mt vi n 75.
Tri s t trc thng v vn ti, tng s my bay tim kch+ hun luyn+vn
ti +ri thuc tr su (AN-2)ca KQVN cng phi n 300 chic ch khng t.

link c th cc loi v kh ta nhn c y, cho b con xem. Bc kqndvn nn

ghi r rng, c th hn trnh anh em hiu nhm, v d bc ghi 4000 xe tng,
bc thp nhng trong ny con s 4000 l + thm c xem xch ko pho, ch bc
ghi th ny nhiu khi anh em li ch ngh n xe tng T54, hay K63 BTR chng
hn.
Mnh thy cc bc c cng thng v chuyn HP; c nh bng thi, chi
p chi xu u c nhng khng mt st nhau th vn chung sn c.
Theo BBC y n:
Mt hi tho quy m tng kt cuc chin tranh Vit Nam c t chc TP.
HCM trong hai ngy 14 v 15-4. Trong s cc bi c hi tho, cc tc gi Trn
Tin Hot v L Quang Lng Vin lch s
Qun s Vit Nam c bi tham lun v ngun chi vin ca Lin X, Trung
Quc v cc nc x hi ch ngha dnh cho nc Vit Nam Dn ch Cng ha
trong cuc chin vi M.
Tham lun ghi nhn trong 21 nm chin u, Vit Nam nhn c sng
h ch ngha, ch tnh ca nhn dn yu chung ha bnh trn th gii, c bit l
Lin X, Trung Quc v cc nc XHCN anh em.
Bi vit thng k nhng con s v v kh, n dc v trang b k thut m
khi XHCN vin tr.
Khi lng hng qun s Lin X, Trung Quc v cc nc x hi ch ngha
vin tr t nm 1955 n 1975, qua tng giai on:
Giai on 1955-1960: tng s 49.585 tn, gm: 4.105 tn hng hu cn,
45.480 tn v kh, trang b-k thut; trong , Lin X: vin tr 29.996 tn, Trung
Quc vin tr 19.589 tn.
Giai on 1961-1964: tng s 70.295 tn, gm: 230 tn hng hu cn, 70.065
tn v kh, trang b
- k thut; trong , Lin X: 47.223 tn: Trung Quc 22.982 tn, cc ncx
hi ch ngha khc: 442 tn.
Giai on 1965-1968: tng s 517.393 tn, gm: 105.614 tn hng hu cn,
411.779 tn v kh, trang b-k thut; trong , Lin X: 226.969 tn, Trung Quc:
170.798 tn, cc nc x hi ch ngha khc 119.626 tn.
Giai on 1969-1972: tng s 1.000.796 tn, gm: 316.130 tn hng hu cn,
684.666 tn v kh, trang b-k thut; trong , Lin X 143.793 tn, Trung Quc
761.001 tn, cc nc x hi ch ngha khc 96.002 tn.
Giai on 1973-1975: Tng s 724.512 tn, gm: 75.267 tn hng hu cn,
49.246 tn v kh, trang b - k thut; trong , Lin X: 65.601 tn, Trung Quc:
620.354 tn, cc nc x hi ch ngha khc: 38.557 tn.
Tnh tng cng qua 20 nm, theo thng k chnh thc ca Vit Nam, s vin

tr m Vit Nam nhn c l 2.362.581 tn hng ha; khi lng hng ha

qun s trn quy i thnh tin, tng ng 7 t rp.
V chng loi v kh, n dc v phng tin chin u, cc tc gi Vin
lch s Qun s cho bit s liu:
Sng b binh (khu): Lin X 439.198; Trung Quc 2.227.677; cc nc khc
942.988
Sng chng tng (khu): Lin X 5.630; Trung Quc 43.584; cc nc khc
16.412
Sng ci cc loi (khu): Lin X 1.076; Trung Quc 24.134; cc nc khc
2.759
n tn la (qu): Lin X 10.169
My bay chin u (chic) Lin X 316; Trung Quc 142
Trong bi vit c bo Qun i nhn dn trch thut, cc tc gi kt lun:
Thng li ca chnh sch ngoi giao thi i H Ch Minh l thng li ca ng
li i ngoi c lp, t ch; ca chnh sch ngoi giao trn tinh thn quc t v
sn trong sng, mm do, c tnh, c l.
Chnh v vy, vo thi im hai nc Lin X v Trung Quc xy ra nhng
bt ng quan im, vo lc cuc chin tranh Vit Nam c M y ln ti
mc cao nht, th sng h, gip ca Lin X, Trung Quc cho cch mng
nc ta vn c bo m.
Cc s liu trong bi vit c ghi nhn l tng t s liu trong cng trnh
tng kt Tng kt cuc khng chin chng M, cu nc - Thng li v bi hc
(NXB Chnh tr quc gia, H Ni, 1996).
Theo nh gi ca Ban ch o tng kt chin tranh ca Vit Nam ara nm
2000, tng chi ph Hoa K b ra t 1954 -1975 cho cuc xung t Vit Nam l
hn 700 tla.
Cun sch Chin tranh cch mng Vit Nam 1945 -1975: Thng li v bi
hc ghi nhn bnh qun mi ngy Hoa K tiu tn 77 triu la, v mt nm tiu
tn 700 triu la, bng 3% thu nhp c nc M
Hi tho do B Quc phng Vit Nam phi hp vi Ban T tng-Vn ha
Trung ng v Thnh y TP. HCM t chc ti hi trng dinh Thng Nht.
Mang tn i thng ma xun 1975-bn lnhv tr tu Vit Nam, hi tho tp
hp nhiu tham lun ca cc s gia v tng lnh trong qun i nhn dn Vit
Nam.
Ni n th m cu vn khng hiu nh, ngha n gin l ci gi l bit
trc l ngy bin cn thc t vn , chng c g gi l bit trc
tng lai cu c th ngy bin cho vic cm HP.
Bc vn cha gii thch c khi cho k git ngi th l sai hai ng.

Cn ci chuyn bit trc chng h l ngu bin t no. Ngi ta bit trc
c kt qu khi nm r c nhng g ang xy ra. T d nh khi mt anh
chng say b ln b cng nhn mt thnh hai i li xe th ngi ta c th bit
trc c rng anh ta chng th no li ci xe i cho thng c. Hay nh khi
bc nu cm m cho nhiu nc qu th chc chn s bit trcl cm s nt.
Ti sao bc li c th ngh ti xem li tranh lun ca bc, trong khi bc
khng hi u, nh bc vit, xem xem ca bc kqndvn l g, v c vi ti trong
mt bi tr li khc?
Cu c quyn make choice m, chng lin quan g n t hi li t th ny
.
N khng phi l v quyn make choice ca ti, m ti ang t vn v t
cch ca bc, khi bc lun khng thm quan tm ti ca ngi khc nhng li
i hi ngi ta quan tm ti ca mnh. N lin quan ti bc nh vy.
Nh t ni, tnh gi theo t ng cu kqndvn vit, t khng nh gi theo
suy ngh thc ca cu y, v t khng bit nhng suy ngh. Nhng nhng t
ng ti thi im mang li nh hng x hi c th -qua vic quan trng
ha c chuyn cm HP v chuyn cu y ang lm (k ph v ngi lm).
Cu nh gi gip cu y v chuyn cu y thc s quan trng ci g nh cu
trn, nn c th xem l v on vy, khng c gi tr g vi t.
Vng, bc vn khng h quan tm ti ca ngi khc. Bc ch xt theo ch
ngha bn ngoi lm cho to chuyn, th thi. y ti khng v on ci g c.
Ti ch ngh bc xem li c
th hiu k hn, nh ti vn lun ngh bc, v tc l bc s c mt
nh gi khc i. Ti dng t c l ch khng phi l t chc chn. Th nn c
th bc chng bun xem xt ti c ngn ng bn ngoi khi kt lun l ti v
on??!
Vn HP vn thc thi c freedom of speech chng lin quan g n s
tht l chuyn cm vn sai, nhc li ln na. Freedom of speech da trn tn
trng ln nhau, t ng b ra ngoi lng m trong mi trng x hi. Nhng
cng v th b ra ngoi nt vic cm trc tip mt thnh vin no . Ch ra trc
tip k cm thay v p dng chung cho mi thnh vin l sai, khng th gi l lut
mc ngha g.
Vic cm HP chng c g lsai c. Freedom of speech trong mt khu vc
c gii hn bi ngi lp ra khu vc . Vic nhng c nhn c bit c ch
ring ra l h qu ca hnh ng ca nhng c nhn .
Cng ci ln na v chng c c s no thc hin iu cm , c th
xem l chuyn cm c th to lao
Ta cng ci no, mc d chuyn ny khng cn mi na. Ha ha ha
bun ci hn cu li ni gip cu kqndvn l cu ta quan trng chuyn cm
HP y l ng.

u? ch no c? ch no ti vit r rng vic bc kqndvn quan trng

chuyn cm HP l ng
Cu ni c nhn mt cch trc tip vi bn cu th ok, em ra cho bng dn
thin h khp ni trn mng, c c ngi cha bitg v HP hay ng h HP l
sai.
Ti ni gia c mt m ngi gm bn mi bn c. Sau th tt c u
hiu rng anh chng hay ni by.
y chc hn HP v mt s ngi khc chng c nhng n hu cho cu
hoc cu kqndvn, vic cu ni chng c gitr thc thi g.
n hu v gi tr thc thi g y? Ti c i hi ci u! Ti a ra mt v
d v ci gi l freedom of speech thi m.
Ti chng vi phm ci freedom of speech ca ai c
Chng ai ni g cu c, t tranh lun v vn freedom of speech lin quan
n chuyn cm HP ca cu kqndvn.
Ti c bo l ai ni g u. Ti ch av d thi m. Bc tch ra khiv d lm
g. Hay y l ci cch bc vn xem xt v ca ngn t bn ngoi??!
iu ny hon ton ng, cu c quyn ni hoc cm chung mi ngi,
trng hp t cp n sai do ch ra c th l ch cm HP, vi phm freedom of
speech. Nu c th cm c th HP ln ny, ln sau c th ch ra c th k khc
trong ng cnh khc, ci ny khng th gi l hp l v lut trong mi trng x
hi.
Ti ng? Ti ang cm ci freedom of speech ca c mt m ngi. Ti ci
mi trngx hi do ti lp ra th lut l do ti thit lp.
Khi cu vo bnh cho cu kqndvn qua chuyn dng hay khng, th t nhm
vo cu l bao ng.
Khng phi l ti bnh, m ti mun bc hiu thm v h. D nhin l bc
khng thm quan tm. Making choice, huh?
By gi cu cng nhn l cu bnh cho cu kqndvn (by gi th ti bnh),
th t ni cu sai nt v chuyn freedom of speech vy.
Ti cng nhn rng ti i , t ban u l khng, chuyn sang c bnh,
OK?
Nh t ni bt k thnh vin no, c th trong trng hp ny t cng kch
cu kqndvn v vn freedom of speech. T cng kch cu y ng trong phmvi
vn freedom of speech, khng cn ni thm. Cu by gi li bao ng i v
on suy ngh trong u t ri.
Thats bull! Ti v on ci suy ngh trong u bc t nhng g bcvit.
Bcxem k li ci bi u tin bc vit trong topic ny trang 3. Chc ti cng
chng cn phi trch li ra y. Khng c g dnh dng ti freedom of speech c.

Bi tip theo mi c mt dng, nhng khi l do c ngi phn i bc. Nhng

chuyn bu bi, nh vng bc, th c lin quan g ti freedom of speech m
i nm trong phm vi vn freedom of speech. Ci freedom of speech ch l
ci c, bc tip tc cng kch bc kqndvn sau khi ci on ch giu ban u
ca bc b phn i. Ci khin bc nhm vo c nhn bc kqndbn khng phi l
chuyn freedom of speech. Bc ch dng n lm ci mt n cho ra v ng n
thi.
Nh ni, nguyn tc l nguyn tc, t khng quan tm c th l ai.
Nh ni t lnh vin ca box, chuyn ng gp vo nhng vn chung ca
box l quyn v ngha v
Cng ch nh trn thi. Ci nguyn tc ca bc n cng ch l mt ci mt n.
iu ny th hin khi bc khn kho hn ch ci nh ngha ca bao ng c
th p dng cho ti. Tha bc rng ci bao ng n c ngha rng hn nhiu.
Cn ci s bao ng ca bc c ngy trang bng nguyn tc vi quyn li v
ngha v. Bc dng ln nh vy nh la mi ngi hay ru ng chnh
mnh? Gi th bc li mun bin vn ca mt ngi thnh vn chung ca
box! Ri quyn v ngha v na! Bc ng lm cho n to chuyn ra na lm g.
Chng c ai giao cho bc quyn v ngha v bo v freedom of speech y c.
y c cc mod ang lo vic hn ch freedom of speech ca thnh vin.
Bc bt u y vi vic ch giu ngi ta ch chng phi l cng kch ci
chuyn freedom of speech, cng chng phi l trong phmvi ca chuyn freedom
of speech. Tuy nhin bc cng rt kho lo ko n sang hng ny nh lc
hng. Bc thu hp ngha ca bao ng tin cng kch ngi khc, v dng
ci gi l nguyn tc che i ci s bao ng ca chnh mnh. Bc i hi
ngi ta quan tm ti ca mnh, nhng li thn nhin ni rng khng hi u i
quan tm ti ca ngi khc. Nhng kiu nh vy c gi l double standardtiu chun kp, v bc lun p dng ci tiu chun kp ca mnh bnh phm
ngi khc. Tht nc ci l bc li dng n bo v ci freedom of speech,
theo tiu chun freedom of speech ca mnh. Chng phi l nuxemxt r v
hiu v c nhn ca nhng ngi c lin quan v quan h gia h, th ci chuyn
c lm to thnh freedom of speech kia s tr thnh ci chuyn rch vic khng
u vo u hay sao? V v th bc lun khng hi u quan tm ti ca ngi
khc v gi ci nguyn tc ca mnh ra trnh chuyn ?!! Khi bc nhn ra
mnh sai lm th bc phi li n sang mt chuyn rt to tt, t vic ch giu bc
kqndvn thnh chuyn bo v t do ngn lun. Khi bc khng th li n i u
c na, th lp tc ngi khc tr thnh c li v bc tr thnh b oan, nh khi
bc ku ti l nh mn (sorry, bi trc vit nhm thnh bc p dng t ny 2
ln, thc t l 1 ln). V ci iu sau cng ny th bc ging HP. Bc la chn
xem xt theo ngn t bn ngoi nh gi s vic. C l bc bt u nn xem
xt su hn na hiu r v sao ngi ta li lm nh vy, thay v khng khng
bm vo ci ngn t bn ngoi bin n thnh to chuyn. End of story, LOL.
Whatever, chng ai ci vi cu. Chuyn vng tc ca cu gi cho ring cu

nu l ngi c o c, y ng ngi khng ch c t.

Mt nguyn tc na cn c bo v? o c theo ngha tng i hay
tuyt i? Lm sao bc bit khng ai ci vi ti, v on ? Relax!
Cui cng, chy quanh mt hi, ri cu cng cng nhn ang ni tnh hiu
qu nh. Mt trong nhng iu kin HP a ra l ta c cch nh hiu qu
hn ch BVR ca M.
Ti c b qua tnh hiu qu bao giu? By gi th bc cp ti cch nh
ca ta?!! Cch nh tm dogfight hay tm tng i?, m HP a ra ci cch
nh hiu quy ch no nh, sau ny phi khng, sau khi ti c bi phn
i li thng tin ban u ca cu ta phi khng?
(False BVR!!!)
Tr con qu, bun ci.
Cng ci no, ha ha ha!
T ch ra tm khi phm vi dogfight ni v BVR tng i, 5km-10km.
Uh huh! Tn la AIM-9 tm 4.5 nm th phi, nm trong ci tm kia cha.
M mt trong nhng yu t nh ngha dogfight l qun v, nh bc cho bit.
Ngi ta khng qun v th sao nh, khi vn ang trong tm dogfight m bn?
Nhc li dogfight trong ngoc kp.
Ti chng th no bt ngi ta t n trong ngoc kp c. Ngi ta vit
trn tri nh th.
Cu c gi ci gi thit ca cu,
Ti l k ra y ri!
Ch ni chung chung l hun luyn thm, v a c nm nh cu th ai chng
ni c, chnh thc th cch hun luyn m hnh C (Red Flag so vi Top
Gun) trong AirForce thnh hnh sau chin tranh Vit Nam.
OK, OK! Ban u ti khng vit r l TopGun ch l ca Navy Mo. V Red
Flag l iu tt yu sau kinh nghim CTVN v TopGun ca Navy.
Vn l t k thut cng d hiu nhm lm, t th hiu k thut theo ngha
chung l c cc thnh t c bn s dng v kh BVR
ng vi bc. Nhng ti xem xt c cm t K THUT KHNG CHIN v
nhng iu khc cu ta vit, chin thut ri chin u qu tm nhn. K thut
khng chin th khc vi k thut CHO khng chin.
Ngi ta vn phn bit true BVR y thi, r rng, chng ai so BVR vi mi
dogfight (tm 3 km), c mt khong xm gia hai ci theo ngha tng i.
Ci tm c th cho BVR cng l ni n trng hp tuyt i tri trong xanh, iu
kin thi tit tt ny n.
Th thc l ti cha thy ch no ngi ta ni ti p dng BVR tng i

cho trng hp BVR. Ci BVR c thy quan trng ci tmxa ca nmv

th ngi ta thit k ra cc tn la ngy cng c tmxa hn cho BVR. VR trong
hng khng qun s nh bc cp l ni ti kh nng quan st ca mt
ht mc tim nng ca mt. Thc t th ci tm BVR l trn 15 hay 20 nm
vt qu ci tim nng ca mt rt nhiu ri. iu quan trng ca ci BVR ny l
n cho php pht hin v tn cng i phng t khong cch xa m bo
khng gian v thi gian cho mnh manouver tip v tng tm tn cng nhm ngn
chn i phng ti gn phng v kh vo mc tiu mnh bo v. Ci gi l
BVR tng i ch l cch din gii khi mt khng quan st c do nhn t hn
ch khng phi l bn thn kh nng nhnxa ca mt. Cn ci khong xm nh
bc ni th xem liv d v AIM-9. Tm ca n vi su vo khong xm.
Cn tu ch ni p dng BVR tng i trong chin tranh Vit Nam, t ni
l bt k tng i hay tuyt i, cu c hiu nh l tuyt i i, t nhc i
nhc li ci tm 30km ca AIM-7 cho t ni l p dng BVR ri m, ch c iu
theo ngha tuyt i th
n khng hiu qu, nhng khng phi v th m n thnh dogfight.
Nhng khng phi l c c tm nh th l l BVR.
Cu ch phng on, cn s tht th ELINT cho thng tin v hng bay ca
MiG ta trong chin tranh Vit Nam th nhiu, chng cn phi tranh ci viu ny,
cc sch khng chin Vit Nam u c ni n iu ny. Chng mt thi gian
tranh lun v ny lm g. Nh t ni hn ch c bn l xc nh tm xa n
MiG v cao ca MiG.
Bo co bc l ti phng on ci gc khong 10-15 g y. Ci ny ti
xem phim ti liu v sch, v CTVB. i khi l mn hnh ca thit b trn my
bay hnh trn, my bay v tr tm, hng tn hiu n c th hin bng mt
gc khong 10-15 m ra t tm, nh mt ming bnh . Cn hngmy bay
so vi i hnh th nh ti vit ri. Hng bay c th th ti nghi ng, v xc
nh hng bay th phi bit tm v gc chnh xc. Chuyn nghe lm th cng kh
tin, v xut kch chin u thng gi b mt radio, nu lin lc th cng rt hn
ch, kiu bop mic mt ci, cn nu phi ni th ngi ta dng m hiu.
Chng bit cu kim u ra my con s ny, c phi li ni l ba nh v radar
ba trc khng.
Khng phi ti. Nu ba th l mt tay ngi M mt ci symposium
Maxwell AFB, 1996.
nhng vic p dng u tin vn l chin tranh Vit Nam. V nhiu ci tin t
chin tranh Vit Nam mang li cho BVR thi nay, khng nhy cc qua giai on
chin tranh Vit Nam, l t tranh lun cho ban u v s lun l th.
Cn ti l khi CTVN, n cha l BVR. D nhin l k thut phi pht trin
qua cc bc ri t c ti mc BVR. Nhng hiu qu lun c xt ti
xem xt n l n cha.

Radar cnh gii mt t cng c th coi l mt yu t ca BVR.. Vy ta c th

ni tin ca BVR bt u t WWII, khi radar ca Anh dn ng cho my
bay ca hi dit bomber ca c.
Cu thch tip tc vi cc lp lun tr con ca cu th tip tc thi. C iu t
khng quan tm my loi cu kiu ny.
Cng ging nh bi trc thi, ng khng, khi bc li cho ti l nh mn
. y th ti thnh ra l lp lun kiu tr con!!!? Ti ni l tin m. Ti dng
thng tin ca bc v nhng thng tin thc t dn ti ci ny, ti c ba ra u.
Bc khng c cch no khc ngoi vic cho l nh mn hay l tr con ?!!!
Ci bc S Bo Diu ny lm chuyn qu. Nhng bi chuyn mn khng chin
th m bo ci v ri qung i, nhng bi ch c mt t cht na my bay hay
sng n th li. By gi, mi on mt topic. Thi, khng sao, tn trng S Bo
Diu, cha copy v vi. Ci ny l ni chuyn vi cc nhn vt hay chng HP.
Tranh lun chuyn l chuyn , chng HPl chng HP. ngh cc bc
chng HP c thi lch s, li l c gio dc pr ngay bn thn uy tn ca
cc bc y. ng thi, vic cc bc y t tac tri thc mt cht s bo v ngay uy
tn cuat topic. ngh b con cng nhau bin topic ny thnh mt chuyn hp
dn, nhiu thng tin, trung thc, trnh by sng sa cht ch. Anti
huyphuc1981_nbs article mt ci nh. My bay tim kch v khng chin ra i
t bao gi. Trc nhng ci trnh by trong cu tr li di y, th hai khi nim
trn cn rt hn ch, khng ng k v khng c ngi ta cho l quan trng.
Mt ngi trc khi c my bay trnh by d n ch to my bay vi nhng
ngi c tin. ng ni, ci my ny s lm th gii ha bnh, v nu nc no
gy chin c dng my ny th bom xung chnh ph h. iu ny ni ln c
lc ngi ta tng rng my bay hon ton bay t do trn tri v nhim v chnh
ca my bay l cc mc tiu trn mt t. Nhng thc t, cc mc tiu trn mt
t ch l nhim v cui cng-nh l gii thng ca my bay, trn ng n
, my bay phi sng st qua th thch ln nht, l khng chin. Khng
chin ra i sau chin tranh Ty Ban Nha. Nhng
my bay mang sng 7,62mm v 9mm tc 200km/h rt kh khn trong
khng chin v d dng ch to nhngmy bay r tin bn h chng. n chin
tranh th gii th hai, c th l khi Lin X nh nhau vi c, Lin X ch c vi
chc chic my bay r tin bn h chng , l my bay tim kch, c tc
cao, linh hot, cao ln, v kh nh. c i trc, nhng nhng phi cng c
cng khng nhiu thi gian lm quen vi my bay tim kch mi. Do , cc
chin thut cha nhiu v c xy dng ngay trong chin u. Tui th trung
bnh ca phi cng tim kch v my bay ca anh ta rt thp, nhng nhng ngi
sng st th truyn li cho tn binh chin thng ca h, v dn tr thnh chin
thut. Chin thut tin ln cng s trn khng chin v k thut mi. K thut
khng chin theo chiu thng ng dn dn thay th cho chin thut nhiu tng
my bay khng chin theo tng tng. Nh vy, ww2, chin thut chin u trn
khng c xy dng trong thc t cng vi k thut ch to my bay. u chin

tranh, Hng qun s dng nhng my bay tc ch 200-400km/h, cui chin

tranh, cc my bay tim kch ca h c tc 600-800km/h. Th chin thut
c ww2 l l nh ln, dogfight. Trong cuc nh ln ny, mi bn tm cch
bn ui nhau tht, th nhng kh nht v hp dn nht li l nhng trn tn
cng i u. Cc trn nh ln ny hp dn nht l chin tranh Triu Tin, chin
tranh cui cng dng sng lm v kh ch yu. Trong ctvn, phng tin chin u
qu tm nhn c trang b ph bin, nhng s dng chng, cc k thut
dogflight vn gi vai tr ch lc. Nhiu khi phng tin khng chin qu tm nhn
ch ko di khu sng ca nh ln. CCTT cn c mt c im na l cc chin
thut c nghin cu k trc chin tranh, nh l mt phn ca khoa hc qun
s, ch khng t pht trin trong thc t nh l WW2. Nhng thc t, rt nhiu
bt ng. Do , vic nghin cu chin tranh TT, chin tranh cui cng v nhcao
ca dogfight l vic khng th thiu c ci nhn r rng v khng chin,
hiu r rng, trong chin tranh VN, khng chin qu tm nhn c xy dng
th no. Vic nghin cu chin tranh TT cn c bit cn na khi m nhng
thng tin v n c b ngc v trnh by sai lmv d di ngay trong topic ny.
Ni v CTTT l mt mt trn trong chin tranh VN, d, chnh quyn M lc y
la di ba t khng thng tic nh l mt hnh ng chin lc c mc ch
y mnh chin tranh VN. Cuc chin tranh dogfight mu mc nht trn i b
bp mo, b ngc tuyn truyn l mt nguyn nhn ngi M thiu hiu bit
v chin thut . Trong chin tranh VN, M phi hun luyn v trang b li
dogfight, ch kp s dng vo nhng thng cui cng: nm 1972. Nhng n lc
3 phi cng t ca CTTT thnh pow. y, em xin trnh by quan im
caem v vic khng chin qu tm nhn ra i v mt vi c dim c bn ca
kh ti. y l quan im ca em, em trnh by, ai khng ng th k, em khng
hi u m i ci v vi my ngi. u tin l nh ngha. Khng chin qu tm
nhn l vic khng chin trong ngi ta bn h i th m khng cn nhn trc
tip bng mt thng. Gia on u tin ca khng chin qu tm nhn l tm
cch nh nhau trong mi ti tit. nh nhau trong m ti my m. Nu c
topic qu gi ca bc dangngoc, nghe cc phi cng k v trn my ch vi trm
mt, ta hiu chin u mi thi tit bng radar quan trng th no. WW2, m ti,
vic nh chn nhng chic my bay nm bom hiu qu rt thp, may sao, hi
nm bom trong iu kin thi tit y cng chn i. Ngy nay, khng chin
qu tn nhn cho php cc my bay bn h nhau tm hng trm km nn c
nhiu ngi trnh cao tng khng chin qu tm nhn l nh nhau xa hng
trm km. Ngy ctvn, cc v kh ch thit k bn nhau n chc km l cng.
Nhng ngy , cc kh ti l radar v tn la cho php bn m khng cn
nhn bng mt thng vo ch th. MIG17, ni ting vi dogfight, nhng ng
tng n khng c khng chin qu tm nhn. V d v iu : trong mt trn
nh, mt phi cng ca ta dng radar ngm bn trong m. Nhng radar c
my tnh tng t qu s khai, in khi tp bay ch2 chic tch xa nhau ra:
radar khng bit theo thng no. S vic hi hc n mc phi cng ta t na
m vo ch. May cho anh, hai my bay ch cng thy nguy him khi bay qu
gn nhau v bt n hiu, anh dit c hai, tt nhin l sau khi vt khng chin

qu tm nhn xung t v dng sng vi knh-thc ngm. Trn nh ny em

mt ln hi bc Trng Sn Ty tra li chi tit, nhng chc bc y bn qu.
Mt kh ti c thit k chuyn khng chin qu tm nhn l my bay s
dng tn la lai bng radar. Hi my tnh cha mnh tn la t ng
bay n mc tiu, ngi ta dng
my bay hai ch ngi, trc l phi cng v sau l s quan iu khin v kh,
hay gi tt l gunnerx th cho ngn. S quan ny s thay my tnh ngy nay
trc tip li tn la n gn mc tiu. D tn la loi ny c tm rt thp, nhng
n cng bn c trong iu kin sng m m ti, khi m khng th nhn
c. Ta khng c ci my bay ny, nhng F-4l mt chic nh vy. Khng hiu
ssao LX khng vin tr cho ta, khi h s hu my bay ln nht loi ny, th ny
nng n 40-50 tn, mang tn la tm nhit v tn la radar c ch to ring
cho n, nng na tn tm 50km ln nht lc . My bay TU-28 c tm
3000km, l my bay ca LX h nhiu mc tiu nht trong chin tranh lnh. Tn
la tm nhit, tn la ny lm by bay bn hn sng mt t cht. Khng cn
nhm chnh xc, mc tiu ch cng trong hnh nn 30 tm 2km l c. Tn
la ny gip c mt phi cng trong m ti nhng cng nh phi cng, m tt
trong my m. Do my tnh hi rt km, nn vic tnh ton bn n u l
vic hiu qu rt km, c l, ch dng bn trc thng hay khinh kh cu, th m
cc trn khng chin trn bu tri min Bc khng c. Mt cch na tm cch
khng chin l tn la bn n chiu, ng l n tr thnh tn la tm ngn ch
lc ca Lin X, nhng m c ngy 28-10-1958. Lin X t ngy s dng
tn la tm nhit lm v kh ch lc ca my bay tm ngn. Ngy nay, R-73 bn
ngc thng vi hng my bay siu m, c tm ngc l 12km, gc u d
trn 120 , u d lm lnh in, nhng ny cc tn la tm nhit n gin.
cc tn la tm nhit xut pht t loi dng u d gng quay trong chin tranh
th gii ca c, tn la Madrid. (chng ta m t n sau). Nh vy, kiu g th kh
ti khng chin qu tm nhn hi cng bn cc my bay vng ra ui nhau v
bn tm gn. K thut khng chin theo chiu thng ng lth mnh ca MIG,
nhng MIG-17 lc hu li khng chin vng trn chiu ngang. MIG-21 th tri
chiu thng ng vi cc trn nh in hnh ca Phm Thanh Ngn v Phm
Tun. MIG c sng, v n tn cng c i u, iu m F-4 khng th lm
c tr vi thng cui cng. Chin thut t cng i u l th c nghin
cu cho o thi bnh, biu din ngon mc nht khi c iu kin: chin tranh
Triu Tin. Mt vi im v tin cng i u dogfight, phn hai ca bi vit v
bt sng F-86. Hai bi trn cc trang trc v ang i du lch, em tm cch
ko n v (tt nhin tn trng ch ca S Bo Diu). K hoch bt sng F-86
c giao cho cc phi cng th nghim v ch huy gii nht th no, h tht
bi ra sao, chng ta bit. Sau y l vic cc phi cng chin u thc hin
iu .
Yevgeniy Pepelyaev bt sng F-86. 9:51, gy 6 thng 10 nm 1956,
Pepelyaev dn u mt i bay 10 MIG thuc trung on 196, l mt phn ca
i bay bo v ln thuc tp on Khng Qun 64, i nh chn my bay ch.

Sau khi n vng lm, thung lng sng Chjonchjongan c nht n trn kia,
th i ca anh gp mt i F-86. Trn nh din ra khong 10km v pha Ty
Nam Pakhchon, c khong 16 F86 thanm gia trn nh ny. Ban u, i t
Pepelyaev tn cng i F-86 th nht v bn khong cch 550 mt. Cc my
bay M trt gim cao v ngot tri trnh c n, lm trng bn ca
Pepelyaev khng kt qu. Pepelyaev v cnh gii ca anh b tn cng bi mt
i F-86 khc khi vng thot khi nf tn cng ban u. Dn u i F-86 ny
bn Pepelyaev mt trng thng hng t v tr phi cao. Pepelyaev nh li: Ti
nh trn nh ny nh l n mi xy ra hm qua thi. Chic dn u bn vo
my bay ca tivlm m mt min nh ca ht gi. Ti nh chin thut m ti
v cc bn ti pht trin trc chin tranh, khi chng ti pht trin chin thut
mi cho my bay mi. Khi tn cong i u, khi c hai my bay u c gng bm
ui nhau. u tin l mt hnh ng chin thut, lmra v thc hin mt vng
ln nhm vo mt bn sn ch, nhng sau thc hin mt vobngf ngot
theo hng ngc li v bm ui ch. Khi ch tm cch thot, s bm cht hn
ui n. Lc xy ra iu nh vy. Khi ti qua mt Sabres trong mt tnh
hun i u, n bt u mt c ngot bn phi trong khi lp tc nng cao.
Ti ang mt hng khc gia cao v bt u vng sang hng , v pha
Sabres. Khi gc quay t 40-50 , ti lp tc thc hin mt ng ngt tri
v kt thc c ngot gay sau chic Sabres dn u, hi cao hn n v bn phi.
N l ngay thng hng
trc mt ti vi khong cch ch 100 mt. Ti n mnh cn li c gng ly
ng bn. Nhng m vng ch th mc tiu lun lun treo cao ln hnh chic
Sabres. Trong khi gia tc ngc c nh mun ko ti ra khi gh. Ti thc
him mt ng xoy lt n lc gia tc p ti xung gh, lm vic ngm tr nn
thun tin. Sabres nhanh chng thc hin mt ng lt nh ti, nhng khi ti
ly ng ngm chnh xc ri. Ti bn n khong cch 130 mt. Mt vin
n 37m trng pha sau bun li. N n v Sabres lp tc mt cao. Ti ch
cn ui theo n, sau pht n nh vy th chng cl do no ui theo n c.
(HP: bung phi cng hng ngay lp tc. Nu Sabres khng lp sng my 12,7mm
m lp i bc 37mm nh MIG-15 th kt qu trn nh ngc li, Yevgeniy
Pepelyaev nhy d v hm nay chng ta khng c bi dch ny ca em). Bo co
trn nh ca trung on 196 hm th ny. Ddy l tnh trng my bay ch
sau khi Pepelyaev tn cng: F-86 thc hin mt ng ngot tri ri mt cao
rt nhanh. My bay xoy ri xung v ko ng sao mt m my, n c theo
di bi Pepelyaev, Ryzhkov,. Abakumov Phi cng ca chic my bay hng khng
th nhy d c v bung li hng. Mt ci ui khi ko di ng sau my bay,
my bay tip tc hng v pha vnh Cao Ly trc mi. Vin phi cng ri theo
chic my bay chy ang xoy. Tuy nhiien, chic my bay khng chy c lu,
mt i MIG khc ca trung on 176 n, F-86 kh m thot c MIG. Bo
co trn nh ca trung on 176, ca quyn trung on trng, i y
Constantine Sheberstov. Lc 9h:12 toi dn ng ton b i bay ti Andju t
hng ng Bc trong khi h cao. Khong 30 km pha bc Andju cao 6100
mt ti gp mt F-86 bay mt mnh pha trc v bn tri i bay ca chng ti.

Chic F-86 ang chi xung t vi gc 45-50 v ko ng sau mt ci ui

khi. Ti tng gc xung ca ti ri bm theo F-86 tc cao nht. 2-3 pht
sau ti tm c n cao 1000 mt v bn khong cch 350 mt t tt c
3 khu sng. Khi F-86 bt u lt, ti bn tip mt trng v vt qua n. Nhng
ti thy n nh l n nh, quay li bay ngang v h cao!!!!!!! Mt lc sau F-86
c theo di bi cp MIG n du tin, Milaushkin, sau l Fedorov nhn thy
F-86 h cnh xung b bin. Chic my bay h xung bin cch Phenvon
13km, phi cng nhanh chng c my bay trc thng cu h, cn chic my
bay hng th b ty triu trm ln. (HP: phi cng F-86 chng t trn c tuyt
vi. Anh ta c nhy d ri nhanh chng t chng minh l khng th lm c
iu -ngoi vic lm my bay mt thng bng v xoy. Anh ta va c lt n
b bin, va cho my bay ri xung v c bt ht c ci ng c hng d. My
bay chi xunglm tng tc , khi ch cn 1000 mt, trong lc b nn thm pht
na, tc tch c trong khi ri lm phi cng F-86 ly li c thng
bngv h cnh). Yevgeniy Pepelyaev tip tc k: i, sau l mt v x cng
an ln. Ti sao li th, v lun lun c nhng xung t vi cc n v khc.
(y l trung on 196 do Pepelyaev ch huy v trung on 176 cn v), mt d
zampolits kim sot (y l cc n v qun cnh v an ninh, theo di tinh thn
qun i). Ti bn h chic my bay v tip tc bay vi i hnh nh c, trong
khi trung on 176 tch khi pha sau chng ti v khng thc hin nhim v
ca h trong trn nh. Ti ht ln, n y chng ti cn cc anh gip, sut trn
nh chng ti dng chung mt tn s, h im lng, h bay theo s vic, quan st
chic F-86 h canh v bo cao ln trn. Sheberstov bn chic my bay khnh
cch 3-4km quay tr v cn c v vit bo co l bn h. Anh ta vit bo co
nhanh hn v bo co ch huy son. Hiu tra, ti mi hi Sheberstov: -Anh
bn ri n th no?? Chng ti n ch ra nh v tm trong film, n trnh by
trn phim cu anh ta ch thy b bin v chic my bay cc xa 3km. Trong khi ,
trn film ca toi, my bay nga trc mt, khong cch 130m. C hai nhm
Sabres phc v Cao Ly, nhm u tin sn vch en trng trn cnh v nhm
th hai sn my vng. Ti li hi Sheberstov: -Ci my bay ri c vch mu g.
Tr li: Vng. OK-ti tip-chng ta i tm ci my bay v, nu n vng l ca
anh, en trngl ca ti. K thut llin em ci my bay v cn c, i, n en
trng v c mt l to tng sau bung li. (HP, trng hp ny nh ta cng gp
mt ln, n 37mm AA khi qu gn th khng n tr thnh n xuyn). r y,
gii thch i iu v k hiu my bay. en tng l k hiu ca on bay 4, vng
vin en l k hiu ca on bay 51. Theo mt s sch v th on bay 51 ch s
dng F-86 sau ngy 1
12. Ti sao Sheberstov li ni ng thy my bay c vch vng. iu c
gii thch v sau ny. on bay 51 trng y dng F-80, t thng 9 on bay
chuyn my bay ca h cho nhng n b nm bom i Nht nhn my bay F86. 75 chic (3 phi i) t M chuyn n on 51 Nht. Nhng sau , 25
chic li chuyn n on bay 4 b s my bay ri (), trc y, on 51, n
c sn vch vng v iu ny gii thch F-86 vch vng ca on bay 51
xut hin trn chin trng trng khi on bay tr v. n ma h 1952 th cc

vch sn cnh ny ging nhau trn tt c cc n v v ch c th phn bbit

c ui. Tr li ngy 6 thng 10 nm 1951, tuy mi vic nh vy, nhng
ngi ga rt thch ci nhau xong li mun mi vic m p, th l i y
Sheberstov c ghi cng bn h chic Sabre ny. Tt nhin, khng c gun
camera photos ca anh trong Album chin thng trn khng ca trung on 176.
Thay vo oa l nh chhic my bay b bn h trn bi bin. Tuy rc ri, chic
my bay ny cng tr thnh phn thng ln i vi cc nh k thut Soviet.
Son 324 lp tc c mt i tm kim, t sn bay Andju i tm chic my bay.
N. M Chepelev nh li: Chng ti nh ko chic my bay khong 1km n b
cho an ton. V khi thy triu, nc bin c th ngp my bay. i tm kim ca
chng ti do k s trng Trung on, Kazankin dn u. i cn c i y
Mohov ca xng sa cha my bay trung on. Chng ti mang theo dng c
chun b trc tho ui cnh v thn my bay. cc k s sa cha l ti,
Volokshanin, Semyon Fedulov. Sau ny, h trong vin thit k my bay
MIKOYAN. Chng ti chn mt ngy c my nng tho my bay. Chng ti
ng ra hon thnh tt p nu M khng pht hin rav bn v pha chng
ti t bin. Mt chic F-84 mun tn cng chng ti t trn my, n gi ti vn
khong hiu ti sao hn bay cao ln v bt u tm kim chng ti vng quanh.
Chng ti nhy qua li gia hai mt cn chic my bay khng th bay cao hn
na tn cng chng ti thun tin hn. y l my bay trinh st v n khng
mang bom. Cui cng, chic my bay i mt, v do , nu chng ti khng
hon thnh cng vic trong mt ngy th chng ti khong cn c hi sng thm
na. Chng ti em n 500 cong nhn Trung Quc, h ko my bay ln khi
nc v cht ln xe Studebekkers. Cng vic hon thnh lc 4 gi. Chng ti i
ban nm v ngy tr n trung hm ngm. Ti ch phn trng thn v i u,
hng i v lch trnh ca chng ti c ngi M bit v nh ph. Mc du
vy, mt chic trong b h cng suyt tm c chng ti. Khi ti vn ang trn
ng ti hm ngm tip theo, m tri rng ng. Nhng xe i sau th ngh
ngi trong hm trc . Khi chng ti ti gn hm th li xe Medvedev thy bnh
khng n li lm., v chng ti pht hin ra mt B-26 ang tm cch tn cng
ng sau. May sao, chng ti lao c vo hm vi tc cao, chic B-26 bn
vi qu tn la. By gi th n, chng ti su 1km trong khi tn la may
lm xuyn c 10 mt. Cui cng, chng ti n nh n tra ca phi cng sau
khi nh nhau. H chy n vy quanh v ngm nghi Sabre. y l ln u tin
h nhn n gn dn nh vy, tuy rng n ang c tho. Cc phi cng k cho
chng toi, h c ci nh chn B-29, ang nm bom ch chic F-86
Sabre h cnh. H ngh rng chng ti cht, mt trng hc gn y b ph
hy mi th trn mt t. Ti ht hai chai kerosene v mt t th nc d t
my bay Sabre. TR v, chng ti s dng hn hp ASh-70/10 cn v glyxrin
cho gim chn v hn hp GZ-50/50 cho cc n thy lc, nhng nhng th ny
c thng li khi tri lnh. Sau ny, Lin X ngi ta tm dc th hn hp
thay cho gim xc v h thng thy lc gi l AMG-10, ging ht na chai
ti ht t Sabre. Chng ti ly trm chic my bay t tay ngi M trong iu
kin gn nh khng th lm c. Th mcn c kin t Maxcva: lm sao

m cc anh li gi cho chng ti mt ci my bay y bn nh vy.. Sau khi xem

xt, cc phi cng ca tp on qun 64 rt n tng vi my bay ny. N c
bungli rng, thoi mi, h thng liv ngm bn hon thin hn my bay Lin
X. Yevgeniy Pepelyaev nh li tip. Khi my bay n sn bay, ngi ta mun
mahg n i ngay, nhng ti ngh n li mt thi gian, khi cc phi cng
tin b v quen hn vi n. Ti ngi trong bun li, l mt bung li sp xp
tt, tic cm gic nh ngi trong gh mt chic xe sang trng. Nhn t bn trong
bung li, F-86 thong sut, trong khi knh ngm li ra MIG. Thong thng, phi
cng b v mt khi h cnh khn cp v iu . F-86 ci g cng nhnm sch
tr h thng
vch li v ngm bn trc pha bun li. F-86 c mt l bn ng chn
tri vch chia t do v chnh xc. AGK-47B l l bn ng chn tri ca chng
ti hot ng khong c tt. AGI-1 l con quay ng chn tri ca chng ta tt
nh ca F-86, ging ht, dng t nm 1954, nhng mu sn ca h d nhn
hn, h l my xanh nht, cn ta l xm xanh.: Ma bay sau c khm bi
quyn ch huy son 18, s 303, i t Smorchkov Alexander. Tu c bn thu
v bn. my bay c em n sn bay bi Kozhedub trong iu kin ti t nh
vy, l nhng g m u tien ti trng thy n. Chng ti nhu mng chin
thng v bo co v Maxcva. Mt iu kh hiu ca chng ti hi l, hnh
nh Sabre khng th bnh trm t pha sau, c th n c trang b raar i
khng bn cu sau. By gi th chic my bay b bt d m toang b mt, Sabre
c gc nhn t bung li rt tt. Trn MIG lc , phi cng ch th ci u ln cn
tt c t vai chm xung thn. phi cng MIG nhn thy nhng g di ui ca
n, n ch c th ln ngc my bay. Cn Sabre, c mnh danh l thng gv
c bung li ln, chng ta thng ngc nhin ti sao n nh vy, nay c cu
tr li. My bay sm c gi n Maxcva. N n NII VVS sau mt chuyn i
di cui nm 1951, y, n c cc chuyen gia hng khng nghin cu k.
Thng 7 nm 1952, mt chic F-86 na li n vi h, ln ny l loi E. Cch
mt thng ri, ngy 13-05-1952, my bay b trng pho phng khng, my
bay do phi cng Walker Mahurin iu khin, c s F-86E-10-NA, s/n: 51-2789. chi
tit v v ny c trn khng lc th gii. Lin X c nh sn xut my bay
copy F-86 c dng c Nga, Chng trnh c quyt nh cho nhm thit k
s 1 Kondratyev. NHng chng trnh sm b dng li khi quyt nh thnh lp
tr li nhm Sukhoi. (chi tit v v ny, em cp trn HK100 phn 1)
y l mt chin tht c bit, tn cng i u. Chin tht ny c nh ta
p dng nhiu bng MIG-17, n cho php my bay MIG c l tn cng F-105 v
thm ch F-4 c tc cao hn nhiu. Bi trn, cc bc thy ai l ngi c
th ch ra chin thut v ch ra c th t bao gi. Sau ny, chng ta s lm r
hn chin thut tn cng i u v phng th vng trn ca MIG. Bn phi l
ng bay ca MIG. Nh em phn tch trn, cc v kh khng chin qu tm
nhn hi ctvn, khng th cho php tn cng gc i u nh MIG. yl gc li
th ca MIG khi chn ch, c c do MIG t gim tc khi i hng. Khi bt
buc cng nhau ln gp th ny, ch buc phi ln gp v mt tc hn

MIG, nh phi nhng cho MIG th thng. (trn Sn em k trn u topic,

MIG trnh n ca F-4 v tn cng-h gc, trong khi bnh thng F-4 c tc
hn2 ln MIG 17. Trn nh lm nhng ngi k chuyn quc t n gi vn
khm phc v tm hiu k, nu khng tm hiu k chng bao gi h vit ti sao.
Cc bc c nh trn em k khng, em bi m trong ln k: Mig lc
my bay trnh ht tn la t pha F-4 tn cng trc, ri tn cng v pha F-4,
bn h. Cc bc c t cc bc vo v tr bit mt cht v khng chin xem,
MIG-17 l my bay c l di m, F-4 l my bay c tc ti a trn 2 ln m
thanh, c tn la v radar khng chin hin i bc nht lc .
Cc F nh F-4c bui t bit, yl bui ca tn la, chng lm my
bay ny n nh ng bay, tit kim nhin liu khi bay ng di. Nhng bui
lm my bay mt rt nhiu nng lng v tc khi bngmy bay c gc ln so
vi hng bay (tnh hung bng my bay n ra chng lc ly tm my bay
vng). Ch n F-18, F-22, bui c chui ny mi c bi, thay bng ui
phng ngang. Bn tri l MIG, bn phi l F-4 v phc, trng hp vng gp,
khng kh thi t bng my bay ln lng my bay chng lc ly tm. MIG n
nh v t khng lm khng kh trt ri xoy hn F, t tn nng lng i
hng v gi tc hn. Bui ca F khi bay ng di lm my bay t mt
nng lng do trng trnh.
Va ri k nim topic vt qua 1 vn lt c u tin. Bc kqndvn da tht
l c ch sng sut khi ch to topi ny. N l hp dn nht hin ti v ang
vn ln tr thnh hp dn hng u box mi thi k. Topic ang vn ln
mong snh ngang cc cng quc KH100, AT-14, m x tn la. Em th em
khoi mn khng chin ny lm, hp vi bc khng qun tht.
Trong vng 5 nm ( trc 2001 ) Khng qun n ri 81 chic MIG cht 34
phi cng ton v tai nn cc loi . Cng ty sn xut MiG ni li do n dng ph
tng thay th khng t tiu chun cht lng . n ni my bay ri ngay c khi
dng ph tng chnh hiu v MiG mun trn trnh li thit k . Ni chung mt trn
khu chin tn khc ko di . n t chi mua MiG-27 sau v cho l thit k
yu km . Ngy nay MiG khng t c kh nng tiu th nh xa na. a s
khch hng c quay sang Su hoc mua my bay t quc gia khc . S tht v
vn thit k ca MiG ra sao ? ngh cc Bc gip Bnh Lun vn ny .
KQ n ln, c c Mig21, 23, 27 v 29.
Tp Tin tham kho ca Thng tn x Vit nam c nm 2001 c bi ni t l
crash ca Mig21 l ln nht (n ni n gi Mig21 l Quan ti bay hoc Ngi
to nn nhng ph n go chng). Hng hc nhiu c cho l nhng cu
phn do n t sn xut ly theo license. Hn na, Mig 21 cng gi
(material fatigue).
C my nm trc ti c dch h ti liu cho ngi nh lm gio vin
trng PK-KQ Bch Mai, H ni. Mt ti liu ni rng Mig 29 n cngc t
l crash cao hn hn so vi Cuba (nc cng trnh ) v ng u (khng
nh lm s liu, nhng c khong 10 crash trong 2 nm). Nhng cng t crash

ca KQ n m cc cng trnh s Nga pht hin ra im yu ca thit kng

ht kh di thn ca Mig29 (d ht objects trn ng bngvolm hng ng
c). Sau c Mig29 v Su27 u c ci tin b phn ng ht kh: khi ct
cnh, ng ht kh c ng li, ng c ht kh t mang c trn lng. Ci tin
ny gip gim crash khi ct cnh ca KQ n .
KQ TQ: mi nhn Su27 nhng cng b crash 10 chic (history channel), khng
bit trong vng bao nhiu nm. Mi u nm 2005 thng sinh vin TQ yc ni
mt Su30 mi chc gi bay b crash.
KQ M hnh nh cng ri khng t my bay. Ring trong nm 1997 thi mt 68
chic, cht 76 ngi. Nhng KQ M ln, tn sut hot ng tp np, s mt c
th khng ng k. The US Department of Defense lost 68 aircraft in accidents
during FY97, its lowest annual total since records began in 1958. The major
accident rate equalled 1.5 accidents per 100,000 flying hours, with 76 fatalities
recorded
[http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news_briefs/jdw971210_07.shtml ].
KQ i Loan: cch y 2 nm c CNN ni b quc phng L tnh kin M v
bt nv t l crash ca F-16 qu ln. F-16 i loan nhp ca M mi tinh (hp
ng 1992, ~150 chic, giao hng ln lt trong nhiu nm sau ), nhng trc
trc k thut lin tc. Theo http://www.f 16.net/f-16_news_article164.html th ch
trong vng 18 thng 4 chic b ri, 5 phi cng cht.
Khng qun VN rt nh so vi KQ n , ch c khong 150 Mig 21 bin ch
chin u. Th nhng ring nm 2000 l nm tht bt ln ca KQVN vi hn
chc tai nn my bay (tnh chung, khng ring Mig21) v mt 10 phi cng (c th
l tin vt -hy vng nh vy. Tn sut bay ca KQVN rt thp so vi mt bng th
gii nn con s tai nn trn l qu cao. T nghe tin ny khi v dm tang b
mt ng i u c kh cng tc Sn bay Ni bi nm 2001, nghe my ng KQ
chn ch chn anh nh vy. Nhiu ngun va h ni c mt Su27 ri Ty Ninh
1999.
Thng tin t link ca Bc Cp qu l kinh hong . Ci link y ngun gc t
mt c quan bo ch ln ca n nn chc l tng i tin c ( THE TIMES OF
INDIA ) Nghe con s khong 220 my bay ri ti thy lnh c xng n nguy
him hn l chic u tht y ch ? Trong y h cng ghi l 40% do li con
ngiv 50% do li k thut . M ti thy my bay tai nn kh thng xy ra
nht l nhng loi mi ang dng th . Nhng ri kinh th th chc ch c n thi
. Trc y ti c thy ctinni VN ta hp tc vi n bo tr nng cp MiG 21
. ci kiu my bay n ri thy gh nh vy th nn hp tc Ba Lan hay Uckaine
.chc n hn. Lin tng v thit k ti ngh n chic xe ua Dodge Viper .
khi thit k n ngi ta ch nhm vo lm sao chy cho nhanh tng tc kinh
khng, mcua cao tc trn mt ng kh ro. Tt c cc thit b an ton ti
thiu nh ABS u khng c gn vo v lm xe nng hn v lm gim kh
nng ua. hn na ngi ta mun n phi r hn ng loi. Kt qu chic xe
nh t vi ng c V10 500 sc nga chy kinh hong v kh li cng nh nguy

himv cng . C l khi thit k my bay chin u MiG cng dng khi nim nh
vy . Ch cn sao t tiu chun hn ngi v tng tc , leo cao , m vng
..m bo dog fight thng l c . nhng ci khc gim n ti thiu nhm
phc v mc ch trn vi gi thnh r nht v th n rt d tai nn vi tay li non
tr . y ch l kin lin tng mang tnh c nhn thi .
Ch ring M nm 1997 thi cng mt hn 70 ngi trong 68 tai nn. Chc KQ
h ln, tn sut hot ng nhiu th s tai nn cao hn cc nc khc.
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news_briefs/jdw971210_07.shtml
n mt ngn y my bay th ng l s tht. Nhng KQ VN chc cng
chng kh hn ng ku. t ra mnh y cng bit 3 ngi tai nn hy sinh nm
94, 98 v 2004. Chng qua thng tin ca VN cha c a ln cng khai, ch
cng khai ri th cng nh cc nc thi. Mig 21 th ng tin cy thi, chin u
sn bay d chin cng tt nh sn bay tiu chun; nhng tc rt thp v
tc cao th cc k kh iu khin, my bay rung lc mnh, ng bay khng
n nh.
My ch y c thy ca ngi phi cng VIt nam cc gii, nhng chng bit
cc ch y c cc thng tin so snh ca Lin x, TQ nh gi v phi cng
Vit nam cha. Ngay n c ng L Thnh Chn, nh vn chin s ca KQ VN,
trong tc phm m my hnh li ba cng m t li cc hot ng hun luyn
trong chin tranh ca phi cng ta cho thy k nng phi cng rt bnh thng. V
d, i hnh bay t TQ v VN phi do phi cng gio vin Trung quc (To Minh)
bay dn u; trong hun luyn th qun xanh bay l l trc mt nhng khng phi
cng no nhn thy c, v.v. Nh hi nhng nm 90 i khi c Bo Qun i nhn
dn thnh thong thy on bay T on bay X cng ch phn u 50% t loi kh
tr ln, trong 10% gii.
Oi, ci v my bay n rt l ci chuyn phnh phng. Bc no c tp ch
Jane hay Flight International, hng nm n lit k cc v my bay rt ti tng ci,
tng ngy, tng nc mt. Nm no n cng ng hng top. Nm no n t
bay th may ra c xung hng. Ch n khi my nh a con my bay ni a
CUNHALADU vo lm hng lot th chc cn rt nhiu na.
Cn phi cng VN th cng nhiu chuyn bun, nhng m kn ting lm. C
mt anh bn ca gia nh ti, l gio vin dy bay, hin ang b mt dng k lut
v ch hc tr t nguyn mt ci SuSU-27 ta ch c t rt th thit hi nng tht
ch . Nhng khng bit xa nay ri bao nhiu v cn bao nhiu nh . Mi y em
c ngun tin t Internet thy h bo chuyn bo tr SU-27 tn km hn MiG-29
rt nhiu . V n qu tn km nn Ta ch c vi em SU-27 hot ng thng
xuyn s cn li ct vo kho . Khng bit tin ny c ng khng nh ? Bc Hai Ry
cy kin g khng ?
27 mt cch rt ng ngn.
Ci chuyn Su-27 ca ta c ct kho hay khng thkhng bit! (H h h!)
Nhng m v chuyn s lng mua ri cn mt bao nhiu th t nhn c

nhiu tin rt l khc nhau nn cng chng bit u m ln. Theo tin ca mi
ngi y th t, nhng theo tin t my bc cu phi cng th chng phi t lm.
Tr li ci chuyn ct Su vo kho, t thy hi l. L v ci cch bo tr bo dng
mt ci my tt nht l s dng n. Ging nh ci xemy vy, c chy hng ngy
th khng sao, nhng lau ra bo dng du m y ri b x my thng
xem, lc li ra chy li, p my chc ht hi lun. Ri ti lc i th s thy i vn
.
Cn ci chuyn my bay trc thng ri m bc 929rr cp y, ci l do n
ri rt l bun ci, ng ngn, v ngu ngc, ti mc khng th tit l c, vn
tr thnh mt kiu b mt qun s ca nh nc. Ti m k ra y th th no
cng b nh c nh bo g ca bo Tui Tr a tin chuyn ca B Y t .
Hi my bc ph trch v bo ch (ca mt b hay phi lo chuyn vi nc
ngoi) phi au u ngh cch tr li bn Ty. Bn Ty th n khng chu ci l do
ct ln mnh a ra nn hi cng lm. Cng l mt ng anh lm y nn hng
ht c.
Trong khng chin trong tm nhn , Sut mt thi gian kh di tn la Nga
AA-11 Archer c xem l v ch v khng c i th gn tng ng cho n
khi Python-4 ra i . AA-11 tm bn ngoi 40Km gp i AIM-9M v off-boresight
( gc m kh nng bn nhn t u my bay ) n 45 sau ci tin ln 60
tng t Python-4 . Vi nhng loi tn la trn AIM-9M/L ho thnh c d n
c b dn ng IIR cc tt . Phi cng M nu i din vi k th trang b AA11
h ch c th thng nhu th gi bay -hun luyn , sng v phi hp hnh
ng gia nhiu loi my bay chc nng khc nhau . i din kh khn
Raytheon ( M ) c nghin cuv nm 1999 h th nghim thnh cng AIM-9X
tm bn ngoi 40Km v off-boresight 90 cng vi mt s k thut khc cho
php bn mc tiu all around tng t Python-5 . Tuy nhin mi n thi gian
gn y AIM-9X mi c trang b i tr . Ngy 29-3-2005 l ngy Raytheon
chuyn giao tri AIM-9X th 1000 cho qun i. c bit Hn quc nhn mua
F-15 cng mt phnv M ha trang b AIM-9X cho F-15 Hn Quc. B dn
ng IIR ( images infrared ) li trn v trc nh mt con mt c vi k thut
focal plane array cho php n nhn chnh xc gc rt rng . D tnh s ch to
khong 10 nghn tri .
Nm 1980 Anh , c, M vvi nc khc cng hp tc d tnh ch to loi
Tn la AA thay th AIM-9 lc by gi . Tuy nhin cc quc gia khng t c
s tho thun khi vit yu cu k thut cho tn la . Mi nc do iu kin tc
chin ring nn c nhng i hi khc nhau . Ko di n 1990 c b cuc , M
cng b cuc sau khng lu . c ng ring tip tc nghin cu , sau c
vi nuc cng tam gia v chi ph nghin cu chia ra nh sau : c 46%, 19% ,
Thuin 18%, Hy lp 13% s cn li do Canada v Na-uy cng chi . H t tn
cho tn la ny l IRIS-T ( Infra red Imagery sidewinder Tail-controled ) s dng
b dn ng Scanning imaging infrared seeker ly t k thut ny ca AIM-9 .
H t c gc off-boresight 90 . k hoch sn xut ton din s thc hin
trong nm 2005 . Ngy nay k thut tn la ca cc quc gia gn nh tin rt gn

vi nhau .
Cuc u tr trn bu tri Vit Nam Ngy 30 thng 04 nm 2005
Trong chin thng ca nhn dn ta chng li cuc chin tranh ph hoi ca
quc M, ngoi lng dng cm cn c tr thng minh tuyt vi ca chin s Vit
Nam v cc chuyn gia Lin X (trc y). Di y l trch on hi k ca
thng s Nhi-c-lai Nhi-c-lai-e-vch tng phc v ti tiu on 61, trung on
tn la 236 ca qun i Vit Nam t thng 7-1965 n thng 31966 v ca i
t A-na-t-ni P-t-r-vch, trng nhm chuyn gia k thut tn la ca Lin X
ti Vit Nam trong giai on 1967-1968.
Tn la Vit Cng bit n th Khong thng 7-1965, tiu on 61 thuc trung
on 236 ang ng qun gn H Ni th nhn lnh b mt di chuyn v Ninh
Bnh t chc trn a phc kch my bay ch. Mnh lnh c thc hin mt
cch nhanh chng. m 11-8-1965, t trn a thuc huyn Gia Vin, Ninh Bnh,
ch vi 3 qu n, tiu on 61 bn ri c tp 4my bay M. Trn u tin ra
qun chin thng gin gi lm mi ngi rt phn khi. Dn lng lp tc ra
trn a n mng. H mang no cam, chui, mt ra khao. Tt c chng ti u
cm ngv s quan tm ca ngi dn a phng.
Ch mt ting sau trn nh, c tiu on li ln ng ra H Ni. Khi
chng ti ang rt i th thy ngi dn ko th g vo chim lnh trn a.
Nhn ra, tt c u rt ngc nhin v l nhng qu tn gi, khung lm bng tre,
thn bn bng r trng ging nh tht. iu khin tn la, ch cn mt ngi
ngi di hm ko cc dy thng v nu t trn cao nhn xung th kh c th
pht hin l trn a tn la gi. Ngy hm sau, my bay trinh st M pht
hin ngay trn a tn la gi v gi my bay tim kch n nm bom. Th
nhng chng ri vo li lam b i cao x Vit Nam phc sn. Xung
quanh trn a gi, cc bn Vit Nam b tr cc khu i cao x 37, 57 v
100mm i sn. Li thm 3 my bay M b trng tr.
Sau ny, chng ti c bit mt tn phi cng M b bn ri trong trn hm
v bt lm t binh khai rng: xy ra iu g khng th hiu ni. Ti ngh
rng mnh bo gic. Ti ct bom v trng thy r rng n ri ng mc tiu. Th
nhngtn la hnh nh bit n th. Tan khi bom li thy chng xut hin. Ti
lin vng li ln hai v ct bom, kt qu vn nh th. Va vt ln th my bay
trng n bc chy. Ti chng bit lm g hn l nhy d.
Mc d sau pht hin trn a tn la l gi nhng pha M vn khng hiu
tn la u bn ri my bay ca chng. V th m 3 ngy sau, i Ting ni
Hoa K cho pht i dng tin sau Vit Cng Bc Vit a vo s dng loi tn
la t i khng mi ca Lin X c kh nng bn t H Ni tiu dit mc
tiu st v tuyn 17. Tht nc ci.
i s cng tham gia sa tn la
Ngy 15-12-1967, khng qun M huy ng mt lc lng ln my bay dn
hng ngang nhi diu binh tin vo H Ni. Khi chng va lt vo tm kim

sot, cc tiu on tn la phng khng bn tng cng lin 29 qu. Th nhng

trong s bt ng ca mi ngi, 11 qu mt iu khin lao xung t. Khi phi
ni tn la vi sc cng ph ln ri xung t tc ng nh th no n tm l
ca mi ngi. Nhin liu cha t ht gy nn nhng m chy khng khip,
cn u n th to mi nguy him rt ln cho dn thng.
Ha ra, hm phi cng M t ra coi thng i phng bi chng bt u
p dng bin php gy nhiu mi. Trong tn la Sam-2 c khi thu tn hiu iu
khin duy tr mi lin h gia tn la v trm iu khin trong sut qu trnh bay.
Phi cng M tm c cch ch p hon ton bc in p ca rnh n. Kt
qu l i ch huy bn hon ton b m khng nhn thy tn la iu khin
khin n t do ri xung t.
Thng tin ny ngay lp tc c bo co ln i s Lin X lc l S-rba-cp chuyn v Mt-xc-va. Trong khi ch cc chuyn gia nh nghin
cu tm cch khc phc, i s Sr-ba-cp ch th cho chng ti khng ch i
m t tm gii php. Sau nhng cuc tho lun, mi ngi i n kt lun cn
nng cng sut tn hiu iu khin khng cho pha M ch p. Ti nghem
15 khi thu tn hiu iu khin trong kho d tr ra nghin cu th nghim. Th
nhng i din ca nh sn xut tn la c mt Vit Nam lc l -li-xy-p
kin quyt phn i khng cho m khi iu khin iu chnh cc thng s k
thut bn trong v lo ngi l b mt qun s. Bit chuyn, i s S-r-ba-cp
ni mt cch cng quyt: By gi m cn ni n chuyn b mt. Ngi M
tm rab mt v p ch cc tn la ri cn g. Ti cho php tin hnh th nghim.
i s nhn hon ton trch nhim v pha mnh v nh m cng vic nhanh
chng c tin hnh.
la phi cng M, chng ti t cc thng s k thut ca khi thu tn hiu
theo 3 mc khc nhau. n trc Tt dng lch th mi vic hon thnh c
th mang tn la ra th nghim. u thng ging, thi tit kh ln v my bay M
bt u hot ng. Ngay ln tip n chng u tin, tn la vi khi thu tn hiu
sa i bn ri ngay chic i u. Phi cng M chc hon ton bt ng trc
kt cc nh vy, i ng ca chng ri lonv s cn li quay u tho chy.
Cuc th nghim thnh cng. Ngay lp tc, hn mt nghn qu tn la cn li
c sa cha, cng vic hun luyn cho b i Vit Nam cng c tin
hnh song song. My bay M li tip tc ri trn bu tri Vit Nam.
Mnh Tng (gii thiu) Bo Qun i Nhn dn 30/04/2005
Lc lng phng khng trong i hnh thn tc
Ngy 20 thng 04 nm 2005
T u thng 3-1975, Qun chng Phng khng-Khng qun (PK-KQ) a
5 trung on cao x v mt trung on tn la vo pha Nam thnh lp son
Phng khng 673. Ngoi ra, s on 377 c 6 trung on cao x c lnh c
ng vo hot ng tc chin trn a bn Ty Nguyn. Cng thi im ny,
Qun chng PK-KQ ln lt chuyn 50% s trung on cao x v 100% tn

la A-72 xy dng lc lng phng khng trn cc chin trng, bo m

cho mi qun khu c mt trung on cao x, mi son b binh c mt tiu
on cao x, mt i i A-72 v mt tiu on sng my 12,7mm.
Cng vi cc lc lng c ng chin lc ca B, lc lng Phng khng
cng thn tc hnh qun tham gia chin dch. Ngy 17-4-1975, Son PK 367
nm trong i hnh Qun on 1 tp kt ng Xoi. Son PK 365 theo
trc ng1 trin khai bo v vng duyn hi min Trung. Son 375 vo bo
v thnh ph Nng. B i tn la cng a 4 trung on vo chin trng.
5 gi sng ngy 29-4-1975, cc binh on t kch ca ta trn cc hng
c lnh tng cng kch thc su vo ni nh chim cc mc tiu chn.
Mi t kch ca Qun on 1 khi i qua Tn Yn bt ng b ha im ca ch
bn chn. Tiu on 105 (trung on 280) nhanh chng ct pho 37mm ra khi
xe, h nng bn thng tiu dit cc ha im ca ch. Khi i qua ng ba L
Xun, ch dng my bay bn chn, trung on pho cao x 280 nhanh chng
trin khai cm ha lc tp trung nh tr quyt lit, bo v an ton i hnh ca
binh on. Ngy 30-41975, mi t kch ca Qun on 1 i qua Li Thiu b
ch trong l ct bn ra xi x. Tiu on 102 (trung on 280) nhanh chng a
pho p st l ct 400 mt ri h nng bn thng tiu dit nhiu l ct ch. Khi
qua G Vp, ta bt xe tng ch dn ng cho lc lng t kch tin thng vo
nh chim B tng tham mu. Mi t kch ca Qun on 3 khi qua ng t By
Hin c trung on pho cao x 234 tiu dit cc khng hai bn ng,
gip binh on khn trng thc su nh chim sn bay Tn Sn Nht.
Mi t kch ca Qun on 2 khi qua cu Xa L vo n Th c b ch
ngn chn, lc lng pho cao xi cng s dng pho 57mm v 37mm bn
thng, dit khng ca ch trn thp nc v nh cao tng, bo m cho
binh on thc su nh chim dinh c Lp, Trung on cao x 234 cng vi
trung on cao x 280 trin khai cm ha lc bn ri ti ch chic
my bay L-19. y l chic my bay M b bn ri cui cng trong chin tranh
xm lc Vit Nam.
Bc xem c ng khng, v trong nhiu t liu vnh Cam phu chia nm 80
th trc khi F5E v A37 xut kch u c L-19 bay trinh st.
Cc bn c v Gio S Nguyn Xun Vinh.
http://www.honque.com/PhongVan/pvNguyenXuanVinh/pvNguyenXuanVinh.htm
Tic l ngi Vit nam mnh ch gii khi lm vic vi ty, cn lm vic vi
nhau th ch gii ni chin, tranh ginh gh lnh o.
By gi ni chin kt thc 30 nm ri, chng ta c hiu v ngi Vit
nam chng ta, bn ny hay bn kia khng quan trng, min l ngi gii ng
gp cho t nc.
Mong cc bc b qua quan im chnh tr. Ngay ng Cng sn nm ri c
Ngh quyt mi v Vn Kiu bo, tha nhn chnh thc kiu bo l ng lc

quan trng, v trong tnglai gn cn tm mi cch hn gn. Trc khi i M, bn

ti b tm c vo B Gio dc v o to bt phi nghe ph Ban t tng Vn
ho Trung ng din thuyt v ngh quyt mi ny (c hi trng lim dim ng).
Sau li cn phi lm bo co thu hoch qun trit tinh thn na.
Kiu bo nc ngoi lm ra s lng ca ci gp my ln 80 triu dn trong
nc c y. By gi khng gi l ngu qun na, mlvit kiu yu nc ri
Huyphuc81_nb c u ra thng tin B-52 nm 72 chin u vi Mig dng tn
la bn theo phng thc qu tm nhn ? Xin cho link vi. Mi c thy B-52 s
dng tn la i t ch cha bao gi thy thng tin B-52 s dng tn la i
khng.
Th no l da vo rada th cng? C bit B52 n pht hin tn la bn n
bng cch no khng ? (nm 72 thi nh)Link?
Mig bn thoi mi t xa vo B52: C bit envelope ca tn la Atoll bn ui
l th no khng (tm xa -theo cao bn v tc ca my bay mang, tc
mc tiu, hng bn, gc bn) ? Theo ti c tt c cc ti liu th c nm 72
Khng qun nhn dn Vit nam tng cng ch c 4 ln x kch c tn la vo
B52, s dng 5 n trn tng s c ngn n tn la s dng trong khng chin,
vkhi bn u phi li gn v (1) lo ngi n tn la b lung pht mnh ca8
ng c B52 y lui khng n gn c, (2) qu nhiu mc tiu nng bay gn
nhau nn u n khng lc c m chy rng (3) trnh B52 pht hin sm
m kp tung ho m nh la hng n (4) tm bn ca K-13 hn ch, (5) t
bo v chnh mnh v F-4 h tng B-52 pha sau khng dm bn vo Mig 21 v s
n lc (6) bn m phi dng mt tm mc tiu, khng vo gn th chng bit
ang bn ci g
Che mt my bay ch Ngy 15 thng 04 nm 2005
Nm 1965, lc lng phng khng-khng qun ca ta c trang b tn la
SAM-2, mt loi tn la t i khng tng i hin i do Lin X (trc y)
sn xut. S xut hin ca SAM-2 gy kinh hong cho khng qun M. V vy,
trn a SAM-2 ca ta lun tr thnh mc tiu sn lng ca my bay ch.
Trc thc t, u nm 1966, B t lnh Phng khng-Khng qun ngh
Cc Qun gii nghin cu pho khi nghi trang nhm trang b cho cc n v
pho cao x v tn la to trn a gi la ch. Lp tc, nhm nghin cu
bao gm cc cn b ca Cc Qun gii v cn b k thut ca nh my Z2 c
thnh lp nghin cuv sn xut loi pho khi nghi trang ni trn. Sau 3
thng tm ti v th nghim, nhm nghin cu thnh cng trong vic xc nh
thnh phn ho cht ch to hai loi pho khi. l, pho khi T (cho trn
a tn la) to ra mn khi c mu cam ging nh khi khi phng tn la SAM2; pho khi C (cho trn a cao x) to ra vng khi ging nh khi bi sinh ra
khi bn pho trn a hnh t (ban ngy) v c nh sng la ging nh chp
la u nng pho ban m. Thng 4-1966, ti trn a tn la khu vc Cu
Din, T Lim, ngoi thnh H Ni, pho khi nghi trang c th nghim ln

cui vi s chng kin ca i din Qun chng Phng khng-Khng qun. Sau
khi th nghim thnh cng trn thc a, gia nm 1966, pho khi nghi trang
c a vo sn xut theo yu cu. T, pho khi phng khng ca tp th
cn b, cng nhn Cc Qun gii v Nh my Z2 nghin cu, sn xut gp
phn khng nh vo vic nghi binh, nh la ch ca lc lng phng khngkhng qun trong cuc khng chin chng M, cu nc.
Th Nguyn
Tm cch vt c B52 Ngy 15 thng 04 nm 2005
u thng 4-1966, quc M leo thang chin tranh, s dng my bay nm
bom chin lc B52 nh ph ra min Bc. im u tin my bay B-52 M
oanh kch l khu vc o M Gi ngy 12-4-1966. Sau , M s dng my bay
B-52 ngy cng nhiu v nh ph c lit, gy nhiu ti c man r cho ng bo
ta, c bit l khu vc Vnh Linh.
My bay B-52 s dng Vit Nam c M ci tin nhiu ln, vi nhiu
kiu dng, l B52F, B-52D, B-52G. Cc my bay B-52 khi tin cng min Bc
Vit Nam u c sn ng trang. My bay B-52D sn en ton b mt di v
cnh ui trnh nh sng n chiu. My bay B-52F c sn ph lp sn
trng, mt lp sn en nh la cc kh ti trinh st. c bit, cc my bay B52 lin tc ci tin cc hnh thc gy nhiu nhm trnh s pht hin ca raa
trong h thng phng khng ca ta. Nm 1965, M tin hnh ci tin h thng
v kh ca my bay B-52 v n nm 1967 th hon thnh. My bay B-52D sau
ci tin c kh nng mang c tng s 108 qu bom, trong c 84 qu mang
trong khoang v 24 qu treo ni di cnh. Mi my bay B-52D ci tin cn
trang b thm ra-a nhn dng mc tiu tin hnh nhng cuc nm bom do
t di mt t iu khin.
tm cch nh my bay B-52 hiu qu, Qun chng Phng khng-Khng
qun a lc lng vo chin trng khu Bn nghin cu v trc tip
nh ch. Trung on tn la 238 c giao trng trch thc hin nhim v ny.
nh c my bay B-52, trung on 238 phi chu nhiu tn tht, nhiu
b kh ti ca tiu on83, 84 b ch nh ph h hng nng, gn nh mt sc
chin u. Song bng tr tu, s sng to v khc phc kh khn, cc cn b
trung on tn la 238 cng vi lc lng nghin cu ca Qun chng, ca Vin
k thut qun s bm ch, nghin cu cc vt bom di thm do B-52 nh
ph, nghin cu v nhiu v tm cch vch nhiu pht hin my bay Kt qu l
vo thng 9-1967, tiu on 84 ca trung on 238 s dng tn la SAM-2
bn h c chic my bay B-52 u tin trn bu tri Vnh Linh. Sau , cc
tiu on tn la ca trung on u bn ri c B-52 ca ch trn a bn
Qun khu 4, rt c kinh nghim nh B-52 v nhn rng ra cc n v phng
khng
Bng khinh kh xua ui my bay ch Ngy 01 thng 04 nm 2005
Trong cuc chin tranh Vit Nam, khng qun M dng nhiu thon

chin thut, k thut mi, trong c vic s dng my bay bay thp thm nhp,
nh ph cc trn a phng khng
v cc mc tiu quan trng min Bc nc ta. Vi chin thut ny, ch
hn ch c kh nng pht hin mc tiu ca ra-a v lm gim hiu qu chin
u ca cc loi v kh phng khng ca ta.
i ph vi chin thut bay thp ca khng qun ch, Cc nghin cu k
thut (B Quc phng) tin hnh nghin cu lp hng ro bng khng kh trn
bu tri xua ui my bay ch. y l ti c nghin cu kh c bn,
ng b vc s tham gia ca cc nh khoa hc thuc Trng i hc Bch
khoa, i hc S phm, Nha nghin cu kh tng-thu vn Cc nh khoa hc
thit k, la chn vt liu ch to bng l PVC, dy gi bng c kh nng chu
c gi cp 5v gi bng n nh cao 1.000m. Cc nh khoa hc cng
nghin cu ch to cc thit b thu th bng khinh kh, cc phng tin sn xut
v np kh hy-r.
Bng khinh kh sau khi thit k, ch to em rath nghim nhiu ln
hiu chnh. Sau khi hon thin, cc c s sn xut cng nghip trong nc
c huy ng sn xut hng nghn qu bng khinh kh trong nm 1966 cung
cp cho cc n v b i ch lc v a phng khu vc H Ni, Hi Phng,
Nam nh Hng ro bng khinh kh xua ui my bay ch, buc chng phi
bay ln cao, to iu kin cho ra-a trinh st pht hin mc tiu v li la phng
khng pht huy hiu qu. c bit, bng khinh kh cn c th gy st thng cho
my bay ca ch khi chng vng phi dy gi bng. Lon 305 s dng bng
khinh kh khin cho mt chic my bay M ri ti ch Thng Tn (H Ty)
ngy 4-11-1966.
Hng Ngn
Ngha trang lit s Triu Tin duy nht Vit Nam.
Bn nhng tn cy rm rp ca rng Hong, x Tn Dnh, Lng Giang (Bc
Giang) vo 1 bui chiu h oi , ti ng ci u yn lng trc 12 ngi m vi
bia khc nhng dng ch Triu Tin ct sn cn ti mu thm. C l,
trn mnh t Vit Nam ny, y l ni duy nht an ngh ca nhng lit s nc
ngoi, nhng ngi con u t nht cu t nc Triu Tin qu cm. H n
v mi mi ra i v l tng trn bu tri Vit Nam trong nhng nm thng chin
tranh gian kh v quyt lit nht.
Cuc chin u qu cm ca nhng ch n bc
Nhng nm thng chin u chng quc M ca dn tc ta, khng qun
Vit Nam lm nn nhng k tch dng nh khng tng khi nng cp, ci
tin nhng chn bc Lin X Mic 17, Mic 19 (1) thc hin thnh cng cc
cuc tn cng du kch trn khng, h gc hng lot my bay siu m hin i ca
khng lc M nh F 4, F 111 Vi nguyn bn, n bc ch mang trn mnh mt
khu trng pho 37 ly, cc cn b k thut khng qun Vit Nam t my m
ri nng cp, lp ghp thm mt khu na nhm tng thm ho lc. ng thi,

chng ta cng ci tin mt s chi tit n bc vn ng nhanh nhn hn (2).

Cc phi cng khng ngng hc hi v sng to trong cch iu khin, c bit
k thut quay u t ngt (3), lc n lc hin, nhiu ln chcF 4, F111 (c
nhng tnh nng tiu dit mc tiu u vit hn hn) rng nh sung khin quc
M phi tht ln kinh hi v hn th n bc Vit Nam.
Ngc nhin vi mt Vit Nam va thot khi vng kim to phong kin, lu
nay vn gn gi T quc, nh ui ngoi xm bng ao kim, cung n nay
khng nhng bt kp c khoa hc k thut chin tranh hin i m cn t nng
ln mt tm mi khng ng, nm 1965, 14 chin s khng qun Cng ho Dn
ch Nhn dn Triu Tin c c sang Vit Nam hc hi kinh nghim. Ti
sn bay Kp (tnh H Bc trc kia), h c cc phi cng Vit Nam truyn t
nhng l thuyt v k thut chin u, ng bin trong tng hon cnh, ly yu
thng mnh. K thc tp, 14 chin s c php xut kch vi i hnh ton
Triu Tin v nh n khi cn
thit. Khng qun ngi gian kh, h hc ngy hc m. Mi khi xut kch
chin u, v mun p dng nhun nhuyn nhanh cch nh, v lng cm th gic
M, khi pht hin mc tiu, h lp tc p st v chin u qu cm. Do quan
nim xut kch l phi tiu dit c i phng, khng bo v c my bay
th khng quay v nn h khng trang b cho mnh nhng phng tin thot
him. Th nn t nm 1965 n 1967, 12 chin s mt i khng tr li. Chin
cng ca nhng chin s ny mi mi c khc ghi, ni an ngh ca h
chnh l mt minh chng tc vo khng gian v thi gian (4).
Cu chuyn truyn k v c chp hng.
(B qua on ny, ni v tang l, ni an ngh ca 12 chin s phi cng Triu
Tin, cu chuyn v ngi mua c chp hng mai tng cng vi cc chin
s phi cng Triu Tin theo phong tc Triu Tin. Di qu, cc bc thng cm,
nu ri ri ti s post ln sau)
Hu s
Nm no cng vy, c vo ngy 24-5, ngy Qun i Nhn dn Triu Tin,
i s qun nc bn ti Vit Nam cng n khu ngha trang ny t vng
hoa, thp hng tng nimv dn dp sch s quanh cc ngi m nhng
ngi lnh hy sinh anh dng. Mc d hi ct cu h c chuyn v T
quc, nhng ngy Thng binh -Lit s (27-7), ngy thnh lp Qun i Nhn
dn Vit Nam (22-12) nm no a phng cng nhn dn xung quanh ngha
trang cng n thp hng v ving h. Bn cnh , Nh nc ta cng tin
hnh tn to ni y thnh mt khu di tch, tng nim nhn dn ta i i
ghi nhn cng lao ca nhng chin s khng qun qu cm Triu Tin, ngi
Triu Tin v th gii hiu v nhng tnh cm, nhng mi quan h tt p gia
hai dn tc, hai t nc Vit Nam -Triu Tin.
Bi Lng Vit.
(1):

li

nguyn

vn.

ng

phi

MiG.

(2):

Theo

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-17.htm th MiG-17 c trang b 3

khu NR-23 23mm. Theo http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-19.htm
th MiG-19 c trang b 2 hoc3 khu NR-30 30mm. Bc no bit r v trang b
ca MiG-17, MiG-19, nhng ci tin ca Vit Nam th kim tra li ch
ny cho em vi.
(3): Khng hiu yl k thut, chin thut g nh? (4): on ny khng nh
s tham gia chin u v hy sinh ca phi cng Bc Triu Tin trong chin tranh
Vit Nam.
2 thng trc y ti cng em bi ny ra hi ng bc (trong chin tranh b
phn chuyn v c gii v v kh ca on Sao 921), ng y ni Vit nam
mnh ch c mi v lp thm d gim tcv gn thm gi bom, gi A72, gi tn
la y ( xut kch nhanh) cho cho Mig 17 m thi (ch nhim ti l k s
Trn Khnh Chu -nay l Thng tng).
Bo S kin v Nhn chng c nm 1997 c cp chuyn nm 68 Trung
quc vin tr cho mt dy chuyn hon chnh trung tu Mig17 + o to cng nhn
vin v phi cng th my bay + cung cp chuyn gia k thut iu hnh ngi
Trung quc. V sau c thm mt s trang thit b lp thm cc thit b ph tr
ca my bay sn xut theo mu ca Trung quc. Vi trnh thi c lp thm
ci g mi vo my bay cng c coi l ci tin. V d lp thm gi bom cho
Mig-17 nh hm tu thc ra cng c nghin cu t muc sn ca TQuc
dng cho Mig-17 v 19; ci khc l ta tm ra cng ngh lm ci gi y tiu
kin c s vt cht ca ta.
Ci dy chuyn cng sut trung tu c 2my bay mt thng.
Cc ci tin khc nng cao tnh c ng ca Mig-17 l tuyt i khng c,
v khng c nh my c kh hin i no thc hin c. Cn chuyn phi cng
Triu tin khng mang thit b thot him cngl chi tit huyn thoi. Bi v mang
d l yu cu bt buc, khng nhng dng cho lc b bn trng khi khng chin,
m cn cho nhng lc my bay b trc trc, ht du, ng bng bnh ph
khng h cnh c, hay thi tit xu S Ch huy khng dm cho phi cng h
cnh
Nm 1995 bo Qun i nhn dn c mu tin ngn v mt on i biu
qun chng PK-KQ i thm Bc TTin c gp li v tng huy chng cho cc phi
cng BTT tng chin u Vit nam.
hi xa bo SInh vin c k l bc g L Thanh o, hi trc phi cn Mig, c
chin u vi my bc BTT , sau ny tm nm 2000 c festival thanh nin th
gii Algerie, bc o lm trng on VN, sang c gp li cc bn chin
u BTT tay bt mt mng m. Bc o hi xa li Mig, c ln b ch bm phi
nhy d, ri vng khu 4, b dn bt tng l bit kch Ngu, nn cho mt trn
nn hn
Ebook PRC 24-2-09 PQ