Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Session 2: Interaction
Welcome back to the course.
It is my pleasure today to discuss with Yves Corrodi.
He's the Head of Strategy of IWB, which stands for
the utility of the region of Basel.
This utility is original in the sense that it is integrated,
it covers several infrastructures, water,
telecommunications, district heating, and, of course, electricity.
Another key feature of this utility is
that they source 100% of their electricity from renewables.
So welcome Yves.
>> Thank you for your invitation.
>> So as an integrated utility, what kind of links do you make or
do you foresee between the electricity, the smart electricity system and
the other urban infrastructure systems?
Start transcript at 1 minute 4 seconds1:04
>> There are a lot of interferences within a lot of dimension,
regarding a technical dimension, there are phenomenon you can observe
within the electric rift itself such as an increase of PV, local PV systems.
But also between other infrastructures, such as heat pumps,
as a new heating source, or storage systems of different medias,
or, as example, electro mobility.
This will interfere with all each other.
And it is our role to combine these trends.
>> So those are the technical linkages you see but we always,
in this course, talk also about socio-technical systems.
The institutional aspects?
What other linkages on the institutional side?
>> There are a lot of other dimensions such as the political dimension.
I'm thinking of the CO2 agreement or the Paris Agreement about CO2
emissions, which sets clear goals which are aligned with our company goals.
Or I'm thinking about the economical dimension.
There are market liberalization in the electricity market,
such as we have observed in Germany, which will affect us.
Or there are simply social, the social dimensions, we want to provide a good
living quality, a good infrastructure, and services to our inhabitants and customers.
Start transcript at 2 minutes 35 seconds2:35
>> So, for an integrated utility like yours, I mean,
what kind of opportunities do you see in linking the smart urban
electricity system with the other infrastructures?
Start transcript at 2 minutes 49 seconds2:49
>> There are lot of trends now a days.
I mentioned previously the centralization but
there might also be the digitalization which has to be mentioned.
Start transcript at 2 minutes 59 seconds2:59
For example, we have this initiative together with the local
trade association the Smart Regio Basel, Smart Region Basel.
But we want to increase the sustainability,
the living quality, the efficiency within the area of Basel.
And probably there might be, in general, free initiatives at the beginning.
So of course, we want to increase the smartness of our infrastructure,
the interconnections between these infrastructures.
But we might also want to provide data based on this infrastructure.
We might also provide data, openly, which could attract new businesses.
But, first idea might be to establish a new marketplace,
a digital marketplace, where there can be services locally exchanged.
Start transcript at 3 minutes 52 seconds3:52
In order to keep the value chain within the reach.
>> So in order to seize all these opportunities,
what kind of challenges do you foresee?
Start transcript at 4 minutes 1 second4:01
>> There are a lot of challenges.
There are financial challenges, there are regulatory challenges,
there are challenges about competences.
But probably, at the beginning, at the very beginning of this association,
the goal should be to bring the people together to
have a collaboration between all these actors and stakeholders.
>> So you say that we should start with collaboration, but
there are many actors that could organize collaboration.
Why do you think a utility, an integrated utility like yours,
is particularly well positioned to organize such collaboration?
Start transcript at 4 minutes 40 seconds4:40
>> Of course there a lot of stakeholders who can start such an initiative,
however, and you can think about layers.
So there is an infrastructure layer,
there might be a data layer on top based on this infrastructure.
And based on the data and the infrastructure you can provide
Start transcript at 5 minutes 0 seconds5:00
applications and projects with this information and data.
So like a project or innovative layer, and of course,
utility brings in a lot of infrastructure and a lot of data.
So I think we are very well positioned to support this association.
Start transcript at 5 minutes 18 seconds5:18
>> Okay, thank you very much for your insights.
>> Thank you very much.
Session 3: The infrastructure layer of smart urban energy systems
Welcome back.
In this session we will talk about the smart urban energy services.
In particular, we will talk about what these services exactly are and
who can provide them.
Let us look now at what these smart urban energy services exactly are.
So we have already mentioned in session two the three
main dynamics that are taking place in urban energy.
The move from centralized production to decentralized generation,
the move from plant production to intermittent generation, and then
all these prices signals that relate to the whole automatization of this process.
Now, there are four types of customers of such smart urban energy services.
There are households, you and me.
There are entire buildings with a lot of households in it.
Then there are commercial or industrial areas, like for
example, an airport or a shopping mall.
And then there is another type of customer.
Those are the distribution and
transmission systems operators who will buy balancing energy.
So here you have the three types of services, smart energy services.
The first one very clearly attributable to the great
operators is the balancing energy, the energy that this
operators need in order to keep the grade stable.
Then there are the services that relate to demand side management.
At this point those are purely services in terms of electricity.
Basically, you offer the services to households, buildings, commercial and
industrial areas, in terms of managing their demand of electricity
much more efficiently in relationship to price signals, for example.
Start transcript at 2 minutes 18 seconds2:18
And then a little bit broader are the smart and
integrated urban energy services.
Those are the services that now link the electricity,
urban electricity system with other systems with the water system,
with the transport system with the batteries for the car,
with the waste, with the recycling.
And also the same customers, households, buildings, commercial areas,
can receive this kind of integrated, smart, energy services.
Who are the providers of these services?
Now, in the core we have of course as we have said the dynamics,
the digitalization that favors all this.
And you will see how that affects the providers.
So typically, the traditional providers
are the electricity distribution companies within a city.
They can offer demand-side management to all the different
customers that we have seen.
And they can also to a certain extent offer smart and
integrated energy services by venturing into other, into waste, into transport,
for example, if they operate the charging station of the local bus system.
Or if they operate some sort of batteries for shopping malls and
other commercial areas, but those are legacy operators.
Then we have urban utilities.
By that we mean the type of companies that are not traditionally in
the urban electricity business, but they are in our urban water distributors.
Urban waste managers, urban public transport operators.
And they can now offer these integrated energy services and
offer also balancing services by linking the consumption patterns
with the house, of the households and linking that to energy consumption.
And then, there are what we call intermediaries.
Those are new operators that have not been in the urban business at all.
They basically produce devices or
have information like telecom operators for example,
they have information about your electricity consumption and
they can manage that consumption and sale.
The services, both to you as a customer or
as an industrial area, and to the balancing,
to the grid companies that need balancing energy.
That is actually an interesting business model that we see
appearing in many cities.
But this is also possible, thanks to what we call peer to peer operators.
That is also called energy commons or
electricity commons where customers get together and
do this kind of demand site management together
sort of taking out the intermediaries themselves.
Now, we can see newcomers in
all of these areas, and so potentially
Start transcript at 6 minutes 11 seconds6:11
the smart urban energy services can be provided
increasingly by operators that come from outside the city,
operators that have no history in infrastructures.
And I think that's the real novelty in smart, urban energy services.
Welcome back.
In this session we will now talk about the urban energy systems data layer,
that is the real novelty in smart cities, in smart urban energy systems.
And we will do this in three steps.
Fist, how to think this data layer.
Then the two visions that one can apply to this.
And then, thirdly, the questions that these two visions raise.
Start transcript at 39 seconds0:39
So, let's first look at how to think the urban energy system's data layer.
Now this picture we have already seen in week one,
where we said that the digital or the data layer is the novelty
of smart cities or smart urban energy systems in this case.
Now first, there are data being generated
Start transcript at 1 minute 9 seconds1:09
and these data are basically generated from three different sources.
There are data about user behavior.
There are data about electricity or energy generators behavior.
How much is consumed?
How much is produced?
And then very importantly, there are data about the behavior of the grid,
in this case the distribution grid, as a function of user and generator behavior.
Start transcript at 1 minute 42 seconds1:42
On the basis of this data,
there are smart urban energy services providers.
And this looks like this, the services as we have seen in the previous session
are offered to different types of customers,
and there are different types of services that are being offered.
But all they have in common is that they use the data that has so been generated.
Start transcript at 2 minutes 16 seconds2:16
Now, let's look at the two visions that are possible for this.
And the first vision, really pertains to the,
Start transcript at 2 minutes 28 seconds2:28
it's an integrated view of data generation and data usage for services provision.
This is typically the vision that is held by
electricity utilities that have the data about generation and
that also want to provide the services on the basis of this data.
There may be some related companies that have access to the infrastructure but
basically here division is that this is integrated.
All the data generation and services are integrated.
And the different companies that own this data and
offer the services are competing against each other not sharing this data.
Start transcript at 3 minutes 21 seconds3:21
The second vision is totally different in the sense that there are data
platforms and the different data generators
feed all these data into the platforms and then the services providers
take the information from these platforms and develop
different types of services to different types of customers as a result of that.
Start transcript at 3 minutes 52 seconds3:52
Now this leads to very different questions.
Start transcript at 3 minutes 58 seconds3:58
The first question on the left side, if we have integrated data generation and
services, this basically considers data as a good.
Start transcript at 4 minutes 13 seconds4:13
It's something that somebody has produced,
that somebody uses in order to create services.
And basically the question here is: Who owns the data?
The users?
The utility?
The device producers, for example.
And this raises the question of regulation.
But from this point of view, regulation is basically a competition regulation.
You need to make sure that there is sufficient competition here and
that ownership rights are respected in this type of competition.
No market distortion, no tendency to monopoly, things like that.
Start transcript at 4 minutes 58 seconds4:58
On the other side, if we have data as a shared platform,
the question is, who owns this platform?
Or not even necessarily owns the platform, but who manages this platform?
And in terms of regulation, the approach also is totally different because
you will end up with some sort of infrastructure type regulation,
access to the data, availability of the data, transparency of the data,
Start transcript at 5 minutes 31 seconds5:31
prices of the data, all question of that sort.
So we can see that there are really two different types of visions leading to two
different types of regulating, dealing ultimately with this data.
Now that we have discussed the three different layers,
let's ask Schneider Electric how they see the smart urban energy system.
So stay tuned.
Session 7:
Welcome back.
Now to conclude this second week, we are gong to talk about
the managerial and policy takeaways
from our discussion about smart urban energy systems.
Let's first talk about the managerial takeaways.
And we have structured this along the three layers
and the main relevant dimensions.
So the first big challenge for managers
from a technological perspective is of course
the question of great stability.
Because of intermittency,
because of renewable decentralized production,
because of price signals and increasingly volatile price signals,
the whole grid stability becomes, I would say,
the main challenge for urban, smart urban energy systems managers.
Start transcript at 1 minute 2 seconds1:02
Then from an economic perspective,
there is the whole question of allocating the cost
of moving to smart urban energy systems.
The upgrading that need to be done,
who ultimately pays for what?
On the services layer, it's normally an economic question
in the sense of these smart urban energy services,
what are the underlying businesses of these services,
who will pay for these services,
who wants to pay for the services,
is there a market for the services?
And more from a social perspective,
this is the question of user acceptance
or ultimately, user uptake.
Will they use or buy these kind of services?
On the data layer, there are technological questions
in terms of status standards,
interoperability of data and questions of data security
that managers have to face.
And finally, also from an economic perspective,
this is the whole question of the pricing of the data.
What is the right pricing of this data
so that ultimately the market will uptake the services
and at the same time, the cost for upgrading,
for moving into a smart urban energy systems are covered.
Start transcript at 2 minutes 34 seconds2:34
So let's now look the takeaways for policy makers
along the same structure as previously;
the different layers, the different dimensions.
I think the first challenge for policy makers
are the whole question of legacy cost.
We have traditional energy systems, big power plans,
transmission grid, costly transmission grids,
and as a result of smart urban energy systems,
more independent may be less consumption,
the question comes up as to who bears these legacy costs
and how to finance these legacy costs.
Then, more from a jurisdictional perspective,
it is of course also the question of the relative independence
of an urban energy system,
We know that all energy and electricity systems
are interconnected with each other
and so the question, the policy question here
is really what is the relevant entity?
Is it the city in itself, but we know that the city
is a political entity and often from a system perspective
does not necessarily make sense.
May be more the metropolitan area here.
Start transcript at 3 minutes 57 seconds3:57
On the services layer,
and from an economic perspective, there is the whole question
of regulating certain services
and certain prices of services, for example,
we have seen that balancing services
is one of the smart urban energy services
that is being offered, but balancing energy
is heavily regulated, and so there is policy action
and policy is challenged also in this area.
From the social perspective, there's the whole question
of Universal Services Obligation.
Is there a minimum amount of energy, smart urban energy services,
that the citizens are entitled to,
at what price, how affordable is it,
when can they be cut off, for example?
And then on the data layer, there are a series
of policy questions
The question from a technological perspective,
it's also the question of access to data,
rights of access to data.
On economic, from an economic perspective,
it's the whole question of data ownership.
Who owns the data?
What are the prices for that data,
and then, of course, the whole question of financing
the different digital infrastructures
that have to be put into place.
On the social side, I think the big policy challenges
are privacy, which of course, will affect
whether the users will ultimately use the services or not.
And to conclude, I think the most fundamental questions
that policy makers have to ask themselves
is whether they want consider in an urban system
that the data on smart urban energy data as a good,
as a commercial good, or as a platform,
and this kind of question will have the answer
to this kind of question,
will have huge regulatory implications
which then policy makers will have to follow up on.
To conclude this second week,
we have seen the three main layers of smart urban energy systems.
We have talked about the infrastructure layer,
the services layer and the data layer
and have illustrated this with a series of presentations
and interviews with experts.
Then, we have seen what the main managerial and policy
takeaways are form this.
Now, in the next week, we will talk about
smart urban transportation systems.
So stay tuned.