BEP 391 – Scoping a Project 1: Gathering Information

Hello and welcome back to Business English Pod for today’s lesson on how to scope
a project. This is the first of a pair of lessons on scoping new work for a client.

So what does it mean to “scope” a project? We use this word “scope” to describe
what’s included and what’s not included in a project or agreement. So when we
“scope” something, we’re asking questions and trying to understand what’s
involved in a project.

There are many obvious questions you might ask when scoping new work. But
you’ll likely find yourself having to educate the client about technical issues and
costs. You may have to dig deep into assumptions and address client concerns. And
you may have to present different solutions for the client to consider. In this way,
scoping isn’t just about asking for simple project details. It’s both factual and
relational.

In today’s dialog, we’ll listen to Jill, a software developer, talk with Ivan. Ivan works
for a large retailer that wants to make significant changes to their HR software. Jill
is asking questions to try to understand the company’s wants and needs so she can
scope the project and put together a proposal.

As you listen to the dialog, try to answer the following questions:

1. What does Jill believe Ivan is suggesting about their current approach?
2. What does Jill say about the cost of what Ivan is asking for?
3. At the end of the conversation, what does Ivan ask Jill to include in her
proposal?

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. www.businessenglishpod.com 1
Vocabulary

Recruitment: searching for and hiring employees; “Our recruitment strategy includes
going to career fairs at colleges and universities to find interested students.”

Module: one functional part of a larger system; “I’ve completed the first of ten training
modules as part of my onboarding.”

Self-service: a system or service which people access themselves rather than having
someone do it for them; “Our grocery store now has many self-service checkouts,
which reduces the number of staff we need.”

Functionality: the ability for a system to do something; “We’re hoping to expand the
functionality of our bookkeeping software to include more advance reporting features.”

In-house: happening or done within a company, rather than by outside contractors;

“We take care of all our graphic design in-house, but we hire contractors to do some of
our writing work.”

To take control over: to get the ability to make decisions or have power over
something; “I started working for myself because I wanted to take control over my
schedule and my workload.”

Critical: extremely important; “Considering the tough economic situation, it’s critical
that we find ways to reduce costs.”

To go through the roof: to increase to a high level; “Our delivery costs have gone
through the roof since the price of gasoline went up.”

Revamped: changed or improved significantly; “It cost us a lot of money, but our
revamped website is getting rave reviews from our users.”

Risk management: a plan or method for controlling risks to a business; “As part of
our new risk management plan, we’re reviewing all safety policies and procedures
at our factory.”

Secure: safe from harm or damage; “Without a password, your laptop isn’t really
very secure!”

Privacy declaration: a statement about how a company handles people’s information or

data; “Our company’s privacy declaration clearly states that we won’t sell your
information to marketing firms.”

Exposed: open to attack or harm; “When our Internet security software malfunctioned,
we were exposed to hackers.”

Third party: a person or organization that is not one of the two main people or
organizations in an agreement; an outside organization; “We can’t seem to resolve this
dispute between our companies, so we’re going to bring in a third party to mediate.”

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 2

To access: to enter and get; “Employees are able to access the office building after
hours with their key card.”

Layer: a level or sheet within a system with many; “As our company grew, we realized
we needed another layer of management.”

Dedicated: used by or for only one purpose; “Our marketing team has a dedicated
board room just for our planning and collaboration work.”

Values: the core beliefs of a person or organization; “Adaptability has always been a
core value for us, and it served us very well during the pandemic.”

To promote: to support and encourage; “Many companies are promoting mental health
and wellness to prevent employee burnout.”

To prioritize: to make something more important than other things; “Dave, I know
you’re working on the website, but I need you to prioritize those brochures this week
because they need to be printed soon.”

To overreact: to react too strongly to something; “I think I should apologize to Diane

for overreacting when she told me she was leaving the company.”

Where someone’s coming from: someone’s perspective or viewpoint; “I understand the

sales team’s perspective on this, but I just don’t see where the CFO is coming from.”

Implications: a possible effect or result; “We didn’t realize all the implications that
raising our prices would have in terms of customer loyalty.”

Steep: expensive or high; “Prices downtown are just too steep. I think we should
move our office out to the industrial area.”

Quick fix: an easy solution; “I thought my laptop was dead, but I called tech support
and it turns out a quick fix got it working again!”

Off the top of your head: without thinking too much; “I don’t know exactly what sales
were last month, but off the top of my head I think it was around 400K.”

API: a connection between computer programs; “Apple banned our app because we
used an API that it didn’t think was secure.”

To audit: a careful examination; “We really need to audit our overhead costs to see if
there’s anywhere we can cut down.”

Enhanced: made better or improved; “I really think this enhanced payroll system is
saving us a lot of time and money.”

At a fraction of the cost: much more cheaply; “Why buy the expensive Honda when
you can get a really good Kia at a fraction of the cost?”

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 3

Dialog

Jill: Now, besides a recruitment module and employee self-service functionality…

you mentioned… what did you call it… “in-housing” employee data?

Ivan: Yes. So basically, taking more control over our data… we’re doing this in
other areas… and obviously employee data is critical too. Hence the “in-housing.”
We want to bring all this stuff within our control.

Jill: Okay… And just so we’re clear, can I ask why you want to take this approach?

Ivan: Privacy. People’s expectations around privacy, and what we do with their
data, have gone through the roof. And taking control of our data is part of our
revamped risk management plan.

Jill: So, privacy concerns, control, risk management… are you suggesting that the
current approach is not secure?

Ivan: Not necessarily, but we’re definitely thinking about security. I mean, I don’t
need to tell you about all the privacy declarations that we need to go through… the
fact that data is exposed to third parties is… well, concerning to say the least.

Jill: I understand the concern. Definitely important. But two thoughts here… firstly,
even basic apps you get through the app store come with, like, a dozen privacy
declarations. Secondly, all that data is managed securely… very securely. It’s not
like anyone can access it… there’s multiple layers of security and a dedicated
team looking after your data.

Ivan: Be that as it may, taking care of our employees… and their data… is critical
in terms of the values we promote.

Jill: Yes, and you’re right to prioritize this… Just not sure this is the way to go about it.

Ivan: You think we’re overreacting?

Jill: No, it’s not that. Just want to make sure I understand where you’re coming from,
so we can match you with the right solution. And so you know, the cost implications of
bringing all your data in-house are pretty steep. Not just development, but all the
ongoing management it’s going to take. Especially to keep it secure!

Ivan: Yes, there will certainly be costs associated with this approach. We
understand it won’t be a quick fix or anything.

Jill: Okay, good. That’s a lot clearer now. Though, off the top of my head I can see
another way of going about this: we could reduce the number of APIs and basically
audit what’s going on with your data. That would increase security without bringing
everything in-house. So you get enhanced security, at a fraction of the cost.

Ivan: Okay, that sounds interesting. Maybe you can include that in your proposal
and we’ll take a look.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 4

Debrief

Now let’s go through the dialog again and look at the language and techniques Jill
uses in her conversation with Ivan. At the beginning, Jill is confirming some of the
elements that Ivan has said he wants in their HR software.

Jill: Now, besides a recruitment module and employee self-service functionality…

you mentioned… what did you call it… “in-housing” employee data?

Ivan: Yes. So basically, taking more control over our data… we’re doing this in
other areas… and obviously employee data is critical too. Hence the “in-housing.”
We want to bring all this stuff within our control.

Jill: Okay… And just so we’re clear, can I ask why you want to take this approach?

While discussing the “modules,” or parts, and “functionality,” or what the software
does, Jill asks specifically about data. Ivan explains that “in-housing” employee
data, or storing all the data on their servers, is an important goal.

Sometimes a client seems clear on what they want, but you may be unsure about
whether it’s the right approach. You may be able to suggest something better. But
first, you need to understand the client’s rationale. That is, you need to know why
they want what they say they want.

Jill asks about rationale diplomatically. She starts by saying “just so we’re clear,”
which sets up the question. And she doesn’t ask directly, but rather very politely by
saying “can I ask why?” Let’s try some more ways of asking for rationale
diplomatically.

§ Could you tell me your reasons for liking this particular approach?
§ If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the rationale behind this idea?
§ Can I ask why you believe this project will solve the issues you mentioned?
§ I’m curious to learn more about what’s driving this need.

As you can hear, there are many indirect ways of asking a question politely. Now, let’s
hear Ivan’s rationale for bringing employee data in-house.

Ivan: Privacy. People’s expectations around privacy, and what we do with their
data, have gone through the roof. And taking control of our data is part of our
revamped risk management plan.

Jill: So, privacy concerns, control, risk management… are you suggesting that the
current approach is not secure?

For Ivan, it’s all about privacy and risk management. This would suggest that the
company’s current system isn’t safe. At least that’s what Jill assumes, or guesses,
based on Ivan’s statement.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 5

But when scoping a project, you shouldn’t make too many assumptions. It’s good
to be very clear about the client’s thinking, so you need to check the assumptions
you’re making. Jill does this with a question: “are you suggesting…?” That allows
Ivan to either confirm or deny her assumption.

What are some other ways of checking assumptions when scoping a project? Let’s
practice a few more examples.

§ Am I correct in understanding that you’re unsure how long this might take?
§ So, it sounds like you’re looking for just some minor changes?
§ Are you suggesting that you might also have your own team work on this?
§ What I’m hearing is that the website is top priority, is that right?

Now let’s hear whether Ivan thinks their current system is secure.

Ivan: Not necessarily, but we’re definitely thinking about security. I mean, I don’t
need to tell you about all the privacy declarations that we need to go through… the
fact that data is exposed to third parties is… well, concerning to say the least.

Ivan is clearly concerned about security. In particular, he’s worried about data
being “exposed,” or accessible, to “third parties.” A third party is simply other
people or companies that are not the primary ones in a transaction.

Now, Ivan’s not a software expert. But Jill is. And she has the opportunity to
educate Ivan about some of these security issues. Often when we scope a project,
we need to educate clients. But we need to do so very carefully and politely, as Jill
demonstrates.

Jill: I understand the concern. Definitely important. But two thoughts here… firstly,
even basic apps you get through the app store come with, like, a dozen privacy
declarations. Secondly, all that data is managed securely… very securely. It’s not
like anyone can access it… there’s multiple layers of security and a dedicated
team looking after your data.

Jill starts by clearly and directly acknowledging Ivan’s concerns. By validating his
concerns, she can then address them. She emphasizes first of all that privacy
declarations are normal, not alarming. Secondly, she emphasizes how secure the
company’s data already is.

Let’s try some more ways of addressing a client’s concerns as you educate them
about their options.

§ Actually, this platform is one of the most reliable out there.

§ Well, I don’t think you have to worry about the timeline on this.
§ I understand your concern, but we’ve done this hundreds of times before.
§ I’m quite sure employees will have an easy time learning this system.

Back to the dialog as Jill finds another issue that she needs to educate Ivan about.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 6

Ivan: Be that as it may, taking care of our employees… and their data… is critical
in terms of the values we promote.

Jill: Yes, and you’re right to prioritize this… Just not sure this is the way to go
about it…

Ivan: You think we’re overreacting?

As you can hear from his question, Ivan might be sensitive to Jill’s attempts to help
him understand. Notice that she acknowledges how important it is to “prioritize,” or
highlight, security as a top concern, but she questions whether the approach is the
right one.

And the right approach is not just about what’s most effective. There are other
concerns too, as we can hear.

Jill: No, it’s not that. Just want to make sure I understand where you’re coming
from, so we can match you with the right solution. And so you know, the cost
implications of bringing all your data in-house are pretty steep. Not just
development, but all the ongoing management it’s going to take. Especially to keep
it secure!

At this stage, Jill is educating Ivan about costs. Even if they want to bring all their
data in-house, the “cost implications,” or consequences, are severe. Or, as Jill says,
the cost is “steep,” meaning high.

Clients may not always know how much things cost. And for obvious reasons, costs
are a major concern when clients are looking to hire a contractor. So we need to
gently educate them when we think they may be surprised by the cost.

What are some other ways we can educate a client about costs? Let’s run through
some more examples.

§ Just so you’re aware, this kind of system is usually at least 70 thousand.

§ I should let you know that this at least double the initial development costs.
§ With the move to a new platform, you’re looking at over 50K.
§ Most of this is pretty straight forward, but the video aspect could be expensive.

So does Ivan understand the costs that might be involved with bringing their data
in-house?

Ivan: Yes, there will certainly be costs associated with this approach. We
understand it won’t be a quick fix or anything.

Jill: Okay, good. That’s a lot clearer now. Though, off the top of my head I can
see another way of going about this: we could reduce the number of APIs and
basically audit what’s going on with your data. That would increase security
without bringing everything in-house. So you get enhanced security, at a fraction
of the cost.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 7

Ivan doesn’t seem put off by the steep costs. Still, Jill’s job is to match solutions to
her clients’ needs. And in this case, she can see another way to solve the issue of
privacy and security.

Her suggestion is to reduce the number of APIs, or connected services, they use.
They could also analyze, or “audit,” what’s happening with their data to find more
ways to improve security.

Presenting alternatives as Jill does is important when scoping a project. Even if the
client thinks they know what’s best for them, you can explain other options. Let’s
practice some more ways of presenting alternatives.

§ There is another way to do this without totally getting rid of your old system.
§ You know, instead of a completely new design, we could refresh the existing one.
§ I can see another option here, just so you’re aware.
§ If you’re open to another approach, we could look at setting you up with SalesForce.

How does Ivan respond to Jill’s suggestion?

Ivan: Okay, that sounds interesting. Maybe you can include that in your proposal
and we’ll take a look.

Ivan seems interested and asks Jill to include the alternative in her proposal.
Preparing a proposal is typically the next step after you scope a new project or
piece of work with a client. And Jill has asked some good questions and gathered
the information she needs to do that.

Now let’s practice some of the language we learned in today’s lesson. Imagine you
work for a training company. You’re talking with a new client about delivering
training for their staff. You’ll hear a cue by the client, then I’ll give you a suggestion
for what you can say in response. We’ll guide you through each step in the practice
and provide an example answer for each response.

Ready? Let’s give it a go.

Cue 1: So I think that covers what we’d like to see for the live training aspect.
Begin by asking what’s driving the need for live in-person training.
Answer:

Cue 2: To me it looks like the most effective, and economical approach.

Now ask whether he is suggesting that it’s too expensive to create training videos.
Answer:

Cue 3: Well yes, several years ago we spent a ridiculous amount for just a few videos.
Next, tell the client he doesn’t need to worry, since video is much cheaper these days.
Answer:

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 8

Cue 4: I see… still, I think it’s good to have a live trainer to answer questions and such.
Now say that the cost of live training, including travel, is pretty high.
Answer:

Cue 5: I hadn’t considered the travel involved, but we do think the live approach is
important.
Finish off by saying another way to do it would be virtual live training.
Answer:

Answer 1: Right. And can I ask what’s driving the need for live in-person training?
Answer 2: So are you suggesting that creating training videos is too expensive?
Answer 3: I don’t think you have to worry about that, these days video is much cheaper.
Answer 4: Just so you know, the cost for live training, including travel, is pretty high.
Answer 5: Well, another way to do this would be to have virtual live training.

Now let’s practice some of the vocabulary we’ve covered in this lesson. In a
moment, you’ll hear a series of sentences with a word replaced with a beep. Repeat
each sentence, including the missing word.

For example, if you hear:

Example Cue: Our fuel costs have gone through the <beep> this year!

You can say:

Example Answer: Our fuel costs have gone through the roof this year!

After each response, we’ll provide the correct answer. Let’s begin.

Cue 1: Thanks for explaining John, I can see where you’re <beep> from now.
Answer:

Cue 2: Well, just off the top of my <beep>, I can think of a few good consultants.
Answer:

Cue 3: Instead of a new website, we could fix your old one at a fraction of the <beep>.
Answer:

Cue 4: I’m sorry, but the price for this equipment is just too <beep> for us right now.
Answer:

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 9

Answer 1: Thanks for explaining John, I can see where you’re coming from now.
Answer 2: Well, just off the top of my head, I can think of a few good consultants.
Answer 3: Instead of a new website, we could fix your old one at a fraction of the cost.
Answer 4: I’m sorry, but the price for this equipment is just too steep for us right now.

We’ve reached the end of this lesson on gathering information to scope a project.
We’ve learned how to ask for rationale, allay concerns, and confirm our
assumptions or inferences. We’ve also covered how to educate the client about
costs and present alternatives.

Thanks for listening and see you again soon!

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 10

Language Review

A. Review Quiz

For each question, you must choose the sentence that best fulfills the given
language function or purpose.

1. How might you ask politely for rationale for something?

a) Do you mind if I ask why you’re thinking that might work?

b) What is the rationale for that?
c) Do you honestly believe that something like that would work?

2. How can you state an assumption to invite someone to confirm it?

a) If you assume this is going to be expensive, you’re wrong!

b) What I’m hearing is that you are concerned about costs, is that right?
c) I’m assuming you don’t really want to save money here.

3. What is a good way to allay someone’s concerns about a timeline?

a) The timelines are solid, so stop worrying.

b) Don’t be concerned. It’ll all work out. You’ll see.
c) I understand your concerns, but this timeline is totally feasible.

4. How might you educate a client about costs politely?

a) Do you understand just how much this is going to cost?

b) Just so you know, this kind of service is typically at the higher end of the
price range.
c) I think this is simply too expensive for you.

5. How might you present an alternative when scoping a project?

a) Another option here might be to simply revise your existing website.

b) I think you should revise your existing website.
c) Have you ever considered other options?

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 11

B. Vocabulary and Idioms

Fill in the blanks with words from the box below. Be sure to put any verbs in the
right tense.

take roof prioritize

head access critical

1. Off the top of my _____________ I can see three reasons why this partnership
is a bad idea.

2. The price of food has gone through the _____________ in the past six months!

3. If we want to improve our name recognition, I think it’s _____________ that

we rebrand.

4. If we buy out our biggest competitor, we could really _____________ control

over the entire eastern U.S.

5. When we buy new computers, can we _____________ the communications

team because they need them most?

6. It seems I can’t _____________ our Salesforce account from my mobile phone

for some reason.

Study Strategy

Sometimes people ask us to solve problems for them, and sometimes they ask us
to work on the solutions they’ve created. Sometimes the solutions they’ve created,
however, aren’t realistic. Whatever type of work you do, you’ve probably
experienced this.

Think about the type of work you do and the kinds of problems you solve. In
particular, think about the kinds of problems you solve that other people depend on
you for. Make a list of these problems and solutions. Now, make a list of bad
solutions, or ones that someone might suggest that you think wouldn’t work.

With a colleague or friend, imagine you are talking with a client, customer, or co-
worker about solutions to problems. Your partner can start by stating the problem
and suggesting the bad solution. You can ask the person for rationale for the
solution. Then you can politely present an alternative: your solution. When you’ve
gone through your entire list, switch roles.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 12

Answers

Listening Questions

1. Jill believes Ivan is suggesting their current approach is not secure.

2. Jill says that the cost of doing what Ivan suggests is very high.
3. Ivan asks Jill to include the alternative option she has presented.

A. Review Quiz

1. a; 2. b; 3. c; 4. b; 5. a

B. Vocabulary and Idioms

1. Off the top of my head I can see three reasons why this partnership is a bad
idea.

2. The price of food has gone through the roof in the past six months!

3. If we want to improve our name recognition, I think it’s critical that we

rebrand.

4. If we buy out our biggest competitor, we could really take control over the
entire eastern U.S.

5. When we buy new computers, can we prioritize the communications team

because they need them most?

6. It seems I can’t access our Salesforce account from my mobile phone for some
reason.

Copyright Ó 2022 Business English Pod Ltd. All rights reserved. 13