Minutes of Learning Partnership Steering Group Meeting

Held in Beaulieu Room, Friars Bridge Court, 41-45 Blackfriars Road, LONDON
Tuesday 30th March 2010, 1100 – 1400hrs

Present: Tony Shipley, Management Development Manager, SWT (TS) - Chairman

Alan Martin, Union Learning Rep, Island Line (AM) - Secretary
Clive Chown, Lead Union Learning Rep, ASLEF (CC)
Peter Connolly, Lead Union Learning Rep, TSSA (PC)
Rickey Goodman, Company Council Rep, RMT (RG)
Mark Manwaring, Lead Union Learning Rep, RMT (MM)
Nick Child, Organiser, TSSA (NC)
Graham Morris, District Organiser, ASLEF (GM)
Mel Taylor, Learning Organiser, TSSA (MT)
John Walsh, Company Council Rep, TSSA (JW)
Ivor Riddell, Learner Project Worker, RMT (IR)
Shaun Seymour, Company Council ASLEF (SS)

Apologies: Emma Ramsay, Learning Project Worker, ASLEF (ER)

Marc Sellis, Head of Training & Development Manager, SWT (MS)
Mark Bratt, Union Learning Rep, ASLEF (MB)
Iain Anderson, Regional Organiser, TSSA (IA)
Peter Skelly, District Organiser, RMT (PS)

The meeting was opened at 1104hrs by Tony Shipley, who gave an overview of his intentions on the
way of progressing forward items for the ensuing year of this committee.

Graham Morris - Question of the Full Time Officials (FTO) and clarification on when they need to
attend, as well as the fact that Fail To Agrees from these meetings should take place at FTO level &
the areas of concern from the Reps.

Clive Chown – raised the point that Open Learning & Steering Partnership meetings should always be
a 75/25 split as elements in some issues overlap both meetings.

Mel Taylor – Supported CC and referred to previous incumbent of TS position/post and the fact it
had been minuted some 2 years ago.

Tony Shipley – Agreed that an element of 75/25 overlap at these meetings wasn’t unreasonable.

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 Item Discussion Action(s)
1
Minutes of The minutes of the previous meeting were read and Proposed: TS
Previous agreed as a true and accurate record Seconded: JW
meeting
TS proposed an Action Log for future meetings would
provide invaluable to expedite meetings. This was
agreed by the group as a good idea and carried.

1 – Learning Mentor Terms of Reference

TS has now completed this and provided a copy for all
those present at the meeting and invited feedback at
the earliest opportunity.

GM asked the meeting if this role had been to the

detriment of the Union Learner Reps roles.

CC commented that no noticeable change had occurred

to ULR’s role.

2 – Learning Agreement Review

TS reported that the HR Director SWT had written to
the unions detailing that changes to the Learning
Agreement cannot be conducted at LPSC level.

2 3 – Open Learning Statistics

Review of TS apologised that these had not been sent and this
Actions was going to be discussed as an agenda item later in the
meeting.

4 – Skills For Life Training for ULRs

CC Details had been provided and that release had been
granted on that occasion.

TS commented that he should be the point of contact

for any managers in case of a dispute over release. Also TS – 21 days notice to
that 21 days timescale was not set in stone and local employer & then 4 days
managers could use their discretion. to reply instead of the
12 hr sheets.
CC said that the 3-4 day response was still not
happening in most cases.

GM Proposed that Lead Reps should go via TS in

clarification of point 7.2 of the Learning Agreement.

Discussion took place and agreement was reached that

the regular release of reps was not an issue, but the
issue of training was and it was proposed that Lead ULR

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 or Project Workers of each union should
representations for release.

MM pointed out a scenario that proved in the most

cases to be very bureaucratic and unworkable in the
timescales.

MT voiced concern over the volume of the work this

would create and the unnecessary delay this would
cause in applications for release.

JW proposed person on course to approach Local

Manager in first instance & TS to be the authority.

NC Suggested that some kind of pro-forma be used to TS – As soon as

aid the process. Employee Relations
have agreed the process
TS suggested that the Lead ULR’s should be main point will inform committee
of contact for Training with FTO’s being “copied in” and members’ process in
TS would deal with these, in the absence of the Lead place & PC to produce a
ULR’s this can be done via a Company Council Rep or flow chart for
deputy. distribution with these
minutes.
5 – Meeting for release
Has yet to be arranged.

6 – Outstanding IT issues
Is to be mentioned later on in the main agenda.

7 – Invitation to Head of IT to attend meeting

TS Dave Brougham could not meet this meeting and
that any questions would be dealt with and feedback
given as soon as possible.

8 – Forward details of 6 Book Challenge

MM apologised to the committee that due to personal MM & TS to meet and
circumstance had not been done but a brief overview look at materials to
was given on how this was meant to reinvigorate a facilitate the challenge
person’s interest in reading in Open Learning
Centres – Feedback next
Banner meeting
MM raised the question of suitable wording for a
multipurpose banner to use at events in future. MM to arrange suitable
wording
TS suggested that this should be a regular item on the
3
agenda in the future. He then referred to lady who had
Learning
been displaced and assistance was provided to her in
Partnership
order to help her in interviews and assessments this
Successes
showed clearly how the steering committee has worked

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 well.
Also a JW commented that a CO4 is showing signs of
improved confidence in response to employers’
assistance to identifiable needs.

MM told the committee that he was about to

undertake a City & Guilds 9297 Learner Support course.

TS Stated that there had been considerable successes in

NVQ’s achievement which had been facilitatedby ULR’s,
specifically PC. Congratulations were offered.

TS stated that NVQ’s at Level 2 in IAG being arranged in

conjunction with PC

MT pointed out that there was a great deal more that

could be done in the coming year for ESOL & Skills for
Life. Points noted.

NC said a future success would be the new U-Net

Centre that Southampton City College is involved in
which opens shortly. NC to update the
committee in due
CC Taster sessions are hard work to set up but they do course on any future
work and it pays off in the end the results of a recent developments in this
event in Salisbury has produced 3 Courses being put on area.
the first being French in which 11 members are taking
part, which is followed by Spanish with 9 members
signed up and finally IT & Photoshop also with 9
members signed up there are 3 outstanding members
who are currently waiting to be placed on a course.

TS said he had seen a ULR Job Description it may have

been TSSA or RMT and was personally asking if ALL the
unions had such a document.

GM stated that The Learning Agreement has the role of

a ULR in it.
4
MM Pointed out Learning Outcomes are always
Union
submitted to Project Workers.
Learning Reps
Terms of
MT ULR activities are answerable to the branch as they
Reference
are elected members similar that of Employee to
Employer.

TS After discussion will peruse the TUC model and TS to liaise with the
should he have any questions will refer them to Lead ULR’s on the most
ULR’s. desirable outcomes

5 TS This was a temporary closure in order to facilitate

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 Basingstoke the IT/Retail training previously in White Rose Court,
Open Learning Woking. The Open Learning centre PC’s have been
Centre relocated to Centre Stage upstairs and although they
have no Internet access this can be gained from a
standalone PC in the Trainers Office. It was envisaged
that in May 2010 that the Open Learning Centre would
be set up in a different room and reinstated or 4 PC’s
would be left downstairs with internet access.

MT raised her concern and displeasure that none of the

committee members had been consulted in advance of
this temporary closure and planned reinstatement at a
later date and that the committee should be further
consulted

TS acknowledged that the LPSC should have been

informed of the closure.

TS stated that there are a number of discrepancies in TS to request assistance

the current system data regarding Directed Learning. through Lead ULRs if
He would be contacting past learners to ascertain if the required.
training had been completed and request the return of
resources to enable the figures to be re-adjusted and
for the resources to be reused. TS requested ULR
assistance in calling back material if resources were not
available to do so.

GM stated that he was disappointed at SWT’s shift in

attitude towards the Learning agenda. TS noted GMs
comments.

TS stated that lowered demand for Open Learning was TS happy to provide
6 not the fault of the business, rather it was due to low with assistance of the
Review of footfall and a potential perception for many that Open ULR (AM)
Open Learning Learning was no longer active when in fact it still was.
Statistics TS asked if any ULRs had had reports of any employees
being turned away or not being facilitated with no
negative reply being given. It was also suggested that
ULRs proactively act as OL advocates.

PC highlighted the issue that the Isle of Wight had no

data and that they should have a small resource library. PC to act as liaison for
This was agreed in principle by TS. Island Line needs and
inform TS of
MT asked if SWT had a continual commitment to both requirements
the Southampton & Waterloo Open Learning Centres,
TS confirmed that there was a still a commitment to
these centres.

MT Asked how the funding is being spent. TS stated TS – Review Open

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 that every request was taken on its merits and with Learning posters;
financial limitations reviewed on each application. Remove Waterloo
Where possible, requests were facilitated. It was also phone number, Speak to
noted that no one learner had been refused so far. Steve Denholme IPU,
Distribute to ULR’s to
MM Are NEC courses still being funded? TS confirmed feedback & RG for
this to be the case. Translation.

SS Multi Lingual signs had still not been produced and

management had not contacted RG with the wording so
he could source suitable staff to translate.

IR highlighted that providing Multi Lingual signs was a

positive step provided they were accurate. TS to find out costing of
proper translation of
GM Target group aimed at is Skills for Life ESOL posters and feedback
before Adult Learners
MT Asked if any support would be given to ULR’s and Week.
Staff who deal with Multi Lingual issues. The group
discussed that if there was a need it would be looked at.

GM Suggested using Adult Learners Week to kick off the

language issue.

SS suggested that at the very least Urdu, Hindu,

Cantonese, French & Spanish were ideal starting points.

SS has sent to Marc Sellis a list as per previous meeting

minutes.

TS The Southampton IT issues have now been resolved,

although the Waterloo issue is down to misuse as an
internet cafe as a result all passwords for Internet
access are now to go through TS, all ULR’s will have
internet access and again forms to be submitted to TS

ASLEF members to report through CC in respect of any

7 areas that have difficulty with accessing PDF’s etc
Information
Technology IR Asked if information could be passed on to Unions. A
(Update) discussion took place and TS agreed to amend the Open
Learning Application. TS Amend wording on
Open Learning
CC suggested a list be produced of sites that ULR’s likely Application to allow
to visit to enable firewalls to be amended. information to be
passed to unions

CC & MT to submit to TS
before the next
meeting.

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 CC Wimbledon Park Manager needed to be reminded MS to resubmit E-mail
that release was not negotiable at his level. and explain Grant or
Deny
8
TS Resend learning
Release &
agreement pointing out
Activities
8.3

SS Referral of FTO’s is incorrect and they are required at

2 of the meetings held.
9
TS Agreed that project workers may be invited to
Visitors &
attend committee meetings but are not part of the
Guests
committee in accordance with Section 4 of the
Agreement.

CC Events likely to be held at Bournemouth & Possibly

Isle of Wight, with Mark Prenter and other unions
putting on event in Waterloo.

PC TSSA is looking to do something in the Southampton

10
area.
Adult Learners
Week
MM RMT are currently in discussion with Network rail
(Update)
over a possibly venue.

TS If space required at Basingstoke to liaise directly with

him.

PC stated that it would be interesting to see regular

MS ¼ly stats to all those
stats relating to driver and Guard NVQ achievement?
previously provided.
MT requested ongoing data from MS on this issue

PC When will ALL NVQ’s come with Recognition from

11 Company?
NVQ’s
TS reminded PC that an event, facilitated by the
business had been conducted with publication and
pictures through Stagecoach.
MS – Update and Report
JW When is it planned that NVQ’s will be accredited to
to next meeting.
cover all aspects of Customer Service roles too?
TS stated that the budget for the coming year was in
12
the region of £6,500. This figure was based on the
Open Learning
previous year’s expenditure. TS highlighted that this
Budget
figure was set by the business and its level was beyond
2010/11
his control.

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JW requested that the committee be updated at
meetings, as to know where expenditure of the budget
is. TS stated that this could probably be facilitated.

GM stated the opinion that the budget did not show

the company’s commitment to learning and by virtue
has devalued Open Learning. TS countered this by
discussing that the budgetary forecast was made based
on requirement taken from the previous year’s
requirement and that it reflected previous usage
therefore met the needs of Open Learning.

CC argued that reduction in budget is driving unions to

source alternative funding. TS reminded the group that
Section 4 of the Learning Agreement had it that the
LPSC had a responsibility to identify funds for education
and training regardless of where they came from.

PC Due to the committee not being notified until late

on in the year of previous budget amount, the
opportunity to spend it was lost. TS stated that the
committee had been informed in Sep 09 of OL budget
and that actual expenditure was based on learner needs
not the desire to spend money, especially in the current
economic climate.

SS & GM Open Learning budget: Any additional funding

could be sourced from alternative sources using Project
Workers but if this was unsuccessful then a case must
be made to management for additional funding. This
was noted by TS.

SS raised the question as to what the contingency

budget at SWT in relation to point 4 of the Learning
Agreement was? TS stated that there was no
contingency budget per se, however, if there was a
need for more funding, then he would represent it to
the business.

SS Is footfall down same percentage as the reduction in

staffing levels. TS stated this data was not available.

IR Suggested we use the money then apply pressure on

board. TS stated that how the SW Trains manages its
budgets is down to the business and whilst requests for
expenditure could be discussed, it could not be
dictated.

GM Suggested that the committee write collectively to

the HR Director SWT recording its displeasure at the

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 amount allocated for this year’s budget. TS
acknowledged that this was the prerogative of the
committee, however, re-stated the business case for
the budget allocation.
Secretary to write on
behalf of the
Committee.
GM discussed the application of the agreement and
historical “Fail To Agree” points. GM requested that
FTO’s be given details of major amendments required in
the Learning Agreement, i.e. Skills for Life, Lead ULR’s
and Review timescale for their representation.
13
PC Discussed that the Committee meeting dates had AM to liaise & write to
Any Other
been set back in December 09 and that realistically they All FTO’s
Business
should not be moved as all were present when they
were set. TS dismissed this notion by reminding PC that
there would always be times when meetings might
have to be re-arranged due to business and indeed
personal exigencies.

14 The date of the next Steering meeting is Wednesday

Date of Next 9th June 2010 at 1100hrs in the Bournemouth Room.
Meeting

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