Emdr Transcript Day 2 Part 1

PESI-EMDR (Day Two: Morning Session)-(Ai-Live to Z
(USPESI2710A - Ai-Live Premium)
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Good morning, once again! Thank you for tuning in. Ryan Bartholomew,
PESI. Day two of EDMR training with Megan Boardman. We're ready for a great second day. Hope
you are, as well. Grab your coffee, settle in. If you're at home, get the dog or cat to scooch over.
Remember, we can't see you. You don't need to tidy up or make your bed. You can get comfortable.
And remember to keep the great questions coming at www.PESI.com/askmegan. But before we get
going, here are the things to know. Here's today. Archived access to the recordings is going to be
available usually within 48 hours. A tab pops up so you can go back and watch videos. Check the chat
for updates on break times , if you need CE, those kinds of things. Plus, the much awaited link to the
additional resources that Megan has put together is waiting for you in there now. I think it's also being
added to your portal so you can download it there, as well. If you purchased live CE credit for this, at
the end of the event today, go into the live event tab in your portal, press the "click here to obtain your
CE certificate button" that's where you're going to complete your quiz, complete your evaluation, and
then you can download your live CE certificate. If you're having technical or CE questions, you can
also go over to that FAQ tab. There's some info there. And please feel free to connect with me on
LinkedIn. A lot of you already did that yesterday. Sent me an invite. I really appreciate that. I thought I
would put that out there. Always love it when you guys kind of reach out and tell me in a direct way
what you think PESI ought to be doing next or what is missing and what you need. Maybe you think
Megan should do some other stuff. Let me know that and I'll hit her up for that and we'll make more
stuff along the lines of this. Also, if you've been inspired by a trainer like Megan and you have
something important to share with the community, let me know that. Maybe you want to get into doing
this stuff on your own a little bit. We can talk about that, too. Look me up. I'm easy to find. The picture
on the account is ancient, but it is me. So, it vaguely will look like me from a decade ago, but really
that's it for me for now. I just wanted to thank you for choosing PESI. I'm going to see you at the Q&A
sessions and Megan, I'm just going to turn them over to you.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back. Those of you who were able
to come back and attend live on both days, welcome. Also, I started that Google Drive link for you.
You'll have it in your PESI drive. They're going to make it in a document, as well, so you'll have access
to that. But just know I'm a big advocate for sharing resources.
So, I leave access to that Google Drive open forever until like Google Drive is not a thing. So, you'll
always have access to that. I will be adding a few more things that I just didn't get to adding yet. You
might notice on the resource list document.
That there's still some things that aren't quite on there. Don't worry. I am going to be adding those. I'll
add that tuning in exercise. I'll also be adding some more resources for childhood. EDMR, explaining
EDMR to kids and what that looks like. I will be adding some of those telehealth resources, as well as
links to different bilateral stimulation resources, as well.
If there's anything else on there that you were like, "Hey, we learned this and I really wanted
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information on this" just let Maddie or Ryan know and I'll make sure I add it. You should have also
seen the documents on there that kind of walk you through how to do calm place container and
restoration team. And some other good – and the timeline is on there, as well.
So, I will continue to add to that throughout the day, especially as we maybe talk about and add a few
more things. So, just look for that to continue to change. And if there is anything else I can put on there
that we covered that you didn't see, let them know and I'm happy to share that with you. I'll give you
the rundown for today. We're going to do a quick overview of those eight phases one more time,
summarizing where we left off yesterday. Then we're going to get into the part that I know everyone
has been interested to hear. What does this look like when we actually start to process trauma. We're
going to look at that, how to set that up. In EDMR, what that looks like. This is the part that I do
recommend like this is more advanced skill set and in order to do kind of that next part, I do
recommend more training. But you will get a feel to see if it's something you would even want to use.
You'll get to see two demonstrations of this and they're very different types. I think that's a good way to
see just everything that you can do with EDMR and what that can look like will be helpful for you, as
well. I am going to show you a couple videos. One this morning that is an intro to this is what it looks
like for kids and we're going to do another resourcing activity together and go from there. I'm excited to
have everyone back. Thank you. I wanted to say thank you to everyone that had reached out on social
media and had sent emails and just all of the kind words and inquiries. I really do appreciate and I
appreciate you guys taking time to be here.
So, with that being said, we're going to jump over to – I'm going to show you guys two different videos
for kids if we're explaining what this looks like. I know there were a lot of questions yesterday about
okay, what does EDMR look like with kids. Can it be done? Yes. So, I wanted to just show sometimes
in those early psychoeducation phases just some of the resources you have to show or explain to
family or kids what this looks like that are a really nice addition. I'll add both of those for you. They're a
couple minutes long. We'll start with that and then jump back in to where we left off yesterday.
So let me ...
Ironically, there is this International Association of EDMR that's actually in the U.K. And the
organization in the U.K. posts all of these wonderful videos for kids. And they're honestly really great
for explaining trauma and all of that. We're going to watch two of these and then we will get back into
our content.
(Music).
>> Sometimes bad things happen.
(Captioned video).
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Right? How cute is that video. Also, I think it's such a simplistic way of
explaining EDMR even if we're working with adults. Sometimes those memories get stuck and they
create blocks and even when we try to avoid them, they are always still there. And EDMR is taking
those bits and building them into something new. Love this one. I'm going to show you one other one
that's really great.
Give me just a second to pull it up.

I'm going to show you – we're going to do two. This is a good one, and I do want you to see this one.
This is a depiction for a way you could use as a resource for explaining to adults. If you remember
yesterday we launched the one from the VA that briefly explained EDMR and then we'll go to the
children's one. Don't worry, they're 2.5 minutes long each. I'll pull this up. Especially as we're getting
ready to move into this space, this will be a good introduction for you guys, as well. But it also shows
you maybe how you can introduce this to clients.
(Captioned video).
So, I'll tell you really quickly about one of my success stories with EDMR.
It's actually, I have an EDMR workbook that comes out in the spring. My workbook is dedicated to this
client in particular.
I started seeing Jordan several years ago when she came in, she was in her mid-20s. She was
brought in by her husband. She had four children at the time. Twins and then two other little kids.
Under the age of five.
She had extreme, complex trauma. She had never been to therapy before.
She had witnessed dad try to kill mom.
Dad and mom were heavily involved in drugs all of her childhood.
She had a younger brother and they had not just mom and dad's friends and using buddies coming in
and out of the home, but there was also a lot of prostitution going on in and out of the house, as well.
Lots of neglect and physical and emotional abuse.
And when I first started seeing her, she couldn't stay the night alone. They were eventually taken into
state's custody by the time she was a teenager and placed with another family member. She had
never been able to be on her own and stay alone or work full-time. She had quit at the time going to
college and was just having constant panic attacks, anxiety, and so the husband basically said you
need to go in and get therapy because he was wanting to go on a hunting trip. Just debilitating,
anxiety, fear, panic, all of these things. And kind of one of those clients that you guys could probably
all relate to that you get and you're like, "Ooh, I really hope we can do something" but you maybe
question yourself if you're like me. I hope there's enough that I can give this person that I can make a
difference. Or sometimes it's hard for us to see that change, right? Could maybe be possible if they've
lived this way for so long. Anyways, she starts coming in and she did go to talk therapy, but it was like
we could talk and you know how you can feel they're talking about it, but there is still something there
that continues to get in the way. We started doing EDMR.
Over the course of a couple years. That we would do EDMR about once every other week, probably
for about the first year pretty consistently and then it would go down to maybe about once a month
after the first year.
Anyways, she over the course of her sessions, and she was someone that her husband and her kids
were on her restoration team, but there hadn't been anyone else. There were a lot of fictional people
on there. Over the course of these EDMR sessions, she would, it was so weird. She would have this,
and this will make sense as we get into today. But she would have these different images at the end of
each EDMR session. She would say it's so weird, but this time I see like the shield of Wonder Woman

and it's on the floor and then we would do another session and she would say this time I'm just seeing
the head garment of Wonder Woman. I don't even know like Wonder Woman. I don't even know why
this is coming up. Over the course of these two years, she would collect these different pieces of
Wonder Woman's costume. There was a point where she ended up saying that she had all, she
realized why she had all of these and she was able to put them all on, the armor of Wonder Woman,
which she had done on her own. But one of the most powerful things that she shared with me, she
was the one I told you guys about yesterday. She had an incident of sexual abuse that she had
forgotten about that had come up. And just so much childhood trauma. But one of the most powerful
sessions that we ever did, she was talking to me about, and she hated resourcing at first. This was
actually funny. We struggled for a while to be able to do calm place. She liked container, but there
were some other things that were hard for her and took time.
So, after that memory had popped up, we had done some work on some other childhood memories.
And she shard something with me that I'm going to share with you all really quickly and then I'll tell you
about it.
That just was really powerful and just shows you what EDMR is capable of doing.
She told me that she had had this done for her.
After we had done a particular EDMR session.
And in this particular session we were working on some childhood trauma and one of the interventions
that I had her do is I really struggle with sometimes when I go back and work on childhood trauma, it's
really hard for me to say to them, "Okay, now that we've worked on the childhood trauma we're just
going to move forward." You know, it's nice that we resolved that childhood trauma. So, one of the
interventions that I like to use is any time that we're working on earlier incidents of abuse or childhood
trauma, I use this very common directive where once we kind of get it resolved I say I want you to take
this child and I want you to put her someplace where she gets to be a kid. Just imagine this. It can be
in your calm place. You can bring her with you. You can put her somewhere where she can be safe.
She doesn't have to stay in the memory of what was tainted.
What was funny to both of us and ironic about this kind of incident is she had always kind of resisted
with calm place. She ended uptaking her child self. You guys should be able to see this. She ended up
telling me she had imagined, right, we're doing this, she says I'm in this place. It's like a field and
there's all these wildflowers and I'm sitting there with my husband and my kids and I'm imagining
myself as a child being there just playing with my kids, not having to bear the burden of all the abuse
and everything that had gone on. And she describes this vividly to me. And then she ended up sending
me a picture of this and she had this image of her calm place professionally painted. And hangs in her
living room. And I want to tell you where she's at today, because she's one of those ones that I just
was questioning if we would ever get here, right? What would be their best level of achievement. And
she is now back in school to get her social work degree. She is the director of our children's advocate
center for the court system. She has gone on trips by herself. She has been able to stay by herself and
has completely transformed her life. And I've seen, I mean I could tell you dozens of stories like this.
But this one is near and dear to my heart just because of the EDMR bond I guess that we have. But I

wanted to share this with you because to me it's a reminder that change and hope are always
possible. Even when we get those clients that might feel difficult to make progress with.
So, I'm going to go back to sharing just this one last child video with you.
And then we will get back into where we left off yesterday.
>> Hi, I'm Charlie. (Captioned video).
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: And like I said, I will put all of these links for you in that resource document,
the additional resources, later today when we take that first break. So, let's get back into our slides, but
hopefully those gave you some additional kind of feels for what we can do with EDMR, how we can at
least explain that. So, if you remember yesterday, we kind of left off with developing some of these
resourcing skills. We started with restoration team, which you should see a document in that link for
the directives on that. If we go back to remembering that EDMR is based on this eight-phase model
and we covered a lot of phase one and phase two of what that looks like. It's preparation, history
taking, psychoeducation on trauma and EDMR. And then really the most important part of this during
this kind of preparation phase before we get into what we're going to see next is really making sure
that we have resourced our clients well. And remember in EDMR resourced just is a fancy word for
coping skills so that we've provided them with enough coping skills and resources to make sure that
they're going to be prepared for when we get into the trauma processing that they're going to be able
to handle whatever comes up. Because EDMR does have this free association kind of element to it.
The mind is going to go wherever it goes and everyone processes EDMR differently. EDMR you go
into a maze together and you don't know what direction it might go. But you have to navigate that with
the client. You have to be prepared like the example I gave yesterday. Maybe it's a memory that
popped up that they weren't aware of. Maybe you run into some blocks that you need to learn how to
navigate. The more resources that you can give them that they have shown that they are able to utilize
and that's going to work for them, the better it's going to be. The disclaimer is I'm never going to move
forward in the process until that has been, those goals have been fulfilled with developing those
resources.
So, we're going to start with one of my favorite exercises, this one is one of my personal ones that I
developed, but I love it. For kind of preparing people to go into the next phase of EDMR.
I'm going to walk you through this one. I call this one the path.
And I think this is a really nice skill to kind of prepare people for tackling maybe what lies ahead, what
giving them strength, and helping them kind of just put that perspective of how far they've actually
come. So, we're going to walk through this one together as a resource skill. I will put this one on the
drive for you later today. And then we're going to get into phase three of the assessment of how we set
up an EDMR session.
Again, just allow yourself, please, to have this opportunity. We don't get that very often as clinicians, in
trainings, especially. Let yourself immerse yourself in this experience. You'll have all the directives as
needed. Don't worry about taking notes. Just notice what comes up for you. It's okay if it doesn't go
perfectly. That's real life and real world. Just be curious about things that do come up. If there's blocks
or barriers that maybe some of you run into, know that that's okay, as well. That happens. That doesn't

mean that you did anything wrong. There isn't a right or a wrong way to do any of these exercises. Just
be curious about what it's telling you or what it's teaching you. You can use whatever form of bilateral
stimulation that you want to use. If you want to go to that bilateral stimulation that I.O. for the eye
movements, which I can have Maddie put in the chat for you. It's just that bilateralstimulation.io if you
want to use that for the eye movement piece. If you want to use any of the auditory, you can go to
Youtube and do EDMR bilateral sound. I will upload some of the references for some of the ones that I
like. Or you can just do the tapping with me if you want. If all of those things feel too disruptive and you
just want to use it as a guided meditation, feel free to do that, as well. Just let yourself go wherever
you go in this. Let's all go ahead. We're going to take a deep breath in together. (Inhales.
Let that go. (Exhales).
When you're ready with eyes closed, start that bilateral stimulation for me.
And as you do, I want you to bring to mind a path, a road, or a trail head. And it can be any path, any
road, or any trail. One you have been on or haven't been on.
And as you bring your mind to, this I just want you to notice, kind of take in your surroundings. Notice
everything that you can see. The colors, the details of your surroundings.
Can even notice the smell. Maybe if anyone or anything is with you.
And then I want you to be curious about looking up ahead or down the road or trail and just notice
what lies ahead.
And how you feel about this trail or this road.
Just notice where you are on that trail. If you're in the beginning, somewhere in the middle. I also want
you to be curious about are the trail, the road, or the path, where does it lead?
And how will you kind of know you arrived at the final destination. Where will that take you? Then I
want you to just notice are there any barriers? Difficult parts that you're anticipating on this journey or
trail or path?
What kind of resources are you going to need to help you get through that? Maybe it's water, maybe
it's snacks, maybe it's the right hiking shoes.
You can even think about how long it will take you to get to the end.
Is there anything that's going to help prepare you for this journey?
Just notice we're going to take a deep breath in. Let that go. Go ahead and stop that bilateral
stimulation, if you haven't already. This is normally if I'm working with a client, this is where I would say
so tell me about your path or your trail and they might describe it to me, right?
And it's going to be different for all of us that just did this. And that's okay. Keep that in mind.
I'm just making sure again as the clinician we're touching base, we're seeing if they were able to kind
of envision that or go with that. And now we're going to go into the second part of this exercise. I want
you to go ahead. We're going to take one more deep breath in.
Let that go.
Go ahead, start that bilateral stimulation. We're going to continue with that once more.
And with eyes closed or opened, whatever you prefer, I want you to bring that path, that trail, or that
road back up again.

So, just notice, again, take in the surroundings.

Notice where you are on this path.
And where it leads.
Notice how you feel about being on the path.
And this time I want you to notice how the trail represents your life path. What changes?
I want you to notice or imagine where are you at on your own life journey or your own life path. Maybe
somewhere in the middle?
Are you closer to the end?
And I want you to take a moment and we're going to just turn wherever you are in the path, and I want
you to turn and look back to where you started.
So, where you started this life journey.
I want you to see everything that you have had to overcome, all the barriers, the steps that you've had
to take.
The things that you've had to endure. I want you to notice just how much you've overcome and how far
you've actually gotten.
Maybe even noticing that you're farther than you realized. And as you look back, I want you to notice
or observe what have you learned? What has been vital for you along the way? What has allowed you
to get to where you are today? Even if it's not where you want to be, what's allowed you just to get this
far?
Then I want you to turn and I want you to now face where you're headed and just notice what lies
ahead.
It could be multiple options. Maybe you have multiple trail heads that you get to now choose to take.
Notice what or where the path leads to as you look ahead. Where are you trying to go?
What are you hoping to achieve or attain?
And I want you to notice how much closer maybe you are to where you want to be than compared to
where you started.
You might even notice what are the specific resources or things that you need to hold onto or
remember. It's going to help you continue on this journey ahead.
Maybe it's people. Maybe it's insight. Maybe it's certain skills or tools. Just notice how it feels to be
where you're at on the path, but how does it also feel looking ahead?
What do you hope for?
And if you want, you can even imagine kind of arriving wherever you want to arrive at.
Getting to a place that feels where you want to be.
Just see yourself being there, remembering how far you've already come.
Go ahead, we're going to take a deep breath in now, let that go. Go ahead and stop the bilateral
stimulation, if you haven't already.
Now , if you didn't learn this yesterday, you likely learned this with this exercise right now for a lot of
you. This one can trigger a lot of emotions. Totally normal. In EDMR, you learn to become really
comfortable with emotions and feelings. So, know that it's common for this one to bring up emotions.

I'm going to talk about a couple different things that maybe some of you experienced.
So, some of you might have had the experience where that was nice. It was nice to see just how far
you've come. It was nice to be able to say I actually have overcome a lot and I'm so much closer to
where I want to be in life than where I started.
That might have been an experience for some of you. Some of you might have been like oh, it was
kind of nice to have that perspective that I kind of always feel like I'm still at the beginning of the path,
but it was nice to realize that I'm actually not, that I've actually gotten farther than I think. Maybe you
don't know where you're still headed. Maybe some of you just like to have the options to choose, that
you could go down whatever path, that there's opportunities or unbeknownst things that are waiting
there. Also okay. Maybe some of you it brought up some grief over some of those things that you've
had to overcome.
And acknowledging those. Maybe if it's the first time giving yourself permission to say yeah, those
things have been hard. This is hair how far we've actually gotten. Putting that into perspective. Okay if
that happens. Maybe some of you there's emotion about not knowing where you want to go next.
Maybe it's fear about the future or fear about what maybe lies ahead. That's okay, too. If that happens,
usually I would take us back in and we'd find a place, a resting spot along the way that we want to just
stop and rest that feels comfortable. Sometimes we don't always to just be going somewhere. That's
okay, too.
And maybe some of you had maybe that grief of wanting to be farther than you actually are. Also okay.
Whatever came up for you is right for you, has a meaning, has a purpose.
But our goal with this is I like to use this as a preparation skill of I want them to see just how far that
they've come, right? I want you to all see that experience of I've come so much farther than I realize
that we give ourselves credit for. Sometimes like the movie theater or the train analogy that we talked
about yesterday, this can be a nice way to put the perspective of okay, I can address this trauma
because I've actually gotten to this spot. And sometimes it can give them the resolve to say yeah, we
can do a session and get through this. Right? We can do one session and process through this. And
maybe it will give us a skill that's going to help us along that journey even further.
So, that one, like I said, is one of my very favorites. Super interesting always to see what comes up
along that journey.
Normally when I'm in trainings I'll have people explain what comes up. One of the ways we learn best
when we're doing work like this is when we get to hear the different perspectives of what comes up.
I'm going to share a couple different for you that will give you kind of some ideas of maybe what a
client might come up with. I was doing a training a couple weeks ago. I had a lady in the EDMR
training, she's doing the certification that she shared. She was on a path and it was a path that her and
her husband walk. It's kind of a big circle and starts with their house and leads back to their house and
they take their dogs and how that felt safe. So, she envisioned this. She saw how she has been able to
confidently develop her husband and her dogs as resources and how that's felt good in life to have
them, to finally have people to depend on, to be able to go out and kind of see what's all there. And

she sees kind of the things either circle back, but one of the things that same came up for her is her
pathway ends up back at her house. And that the house represents safety and it represents the people
that she loves, right? And just this sense of security.
And she ended up getting really emotional while we were doing this. So, when I checked in with her,
she said their house had just flooded and so even though we were talking about the past, she said it
felt like there was nowhere safe for her to land. So, when she was trying to think about where to go, it
was like safety and security had been rocked, right? So there was some disruption in this exercise. So,
we ended up going, like I had her imagine taking the things in the house, like the dogs, her son, and
her husband, and going to somewhere that felt safe and secure again where it wasn't intruding on
those things in the house like the flooding. And she was able to work through that.
So, that's an example of one thing that could come up.
I'll give you an example of another one that this one is actually my own personal path of the very first
time that I was walking through and kind of developing what I wanted to do with this exercise. So, with
mine, it's funny what your mind will come up with. I imagined Mount Everest, and I felt like my path
was on the journey to Mount Everest. And when I envisioned and stopped and looked back, I could
look back and see that I had overcome like the ice falls, anyone who is a hiker is familiar with that. You
know the ice falls are the most treacherous spot between camp one and camp two on the hike to
Everest. I was able to overcome that. I had come past the ice falls, but there were still these other
checkpoints along the way. I had been able to do it. And for whatever reason, I envisioned that I'm at
the last camp and it's like a blizzard. And I actually got stuck myself here for quite a while where I
could see people that I cared about that were there. They weren't hiking with me, but they were along
the sides of me. And I'm struggling. I'm slipping all over. I have my ice picks. And I'm thinking I just
can't get to the top. I can't get to where I want to be. It always feels like a struggle, right? And I had
envisioned my higher power kind of behind me. And he is kind of like whatever, do your thing, right?
And he is there and then I had kind of been stuck a couple times here where I couldn't just envision
getting up there and then finally I had kind of just had this thought with myself of well, how could I ask
for help? I have all this gear, but why am I trying to do this by myself? And when you climb Everest,
right, you have to kind of depend on if you're with other people at times to help you. So, I thought of
this higher power instead getting in front of me and helping be the guide that I can follow instead of me
always trying to blaze my own path. Then I was able to use the tools more effectively. When I got to
the top, I could see all these lights and I could just see opportunity and endless places that I could go.
But at the top I could see more clearly instead of getting stuck in the storms of life. So, you could have
anything come up on this. I've heard just about everything. It could be realistic, totally imaginary. Just
know either way this comes up. What we're looking for is we want to utilize this as a resource to
prepare them for where they're going next. So, with that said, we're going to get into this third phase of
EDMR. And I am going to go back really quick and just show you where we're at.
On these phases.
Okay.
So, we went through phase one yesterday. We went through phase two. If you remember, I talked

about we kind of do phase one and phase two together.

And those are usually intertangled. A lot of times you're taking the history, but also taking the skills and
the regulation skills. Again, I'm going to continue to stress this as many times as possible. I never
move forward until I have spent a lot of time resourcing. So, this doesn't mean oh, cool, they did calm
place container and restoration team, we're good to move forward. I want to make sure that's worked
at least, you know, I've had a session in between after teaching them that where they're telling me that
yeah, the skills have worked, they've come back, we've been able to do it again. And I really want to
stress when you find skills that work for a client, sometimes we get in that therapy kind of mode of we
can check the box, right? Where it's like it worked. And then we want to find another skill that works.
Stick with what works because the more you can teach them to use it and you can teach the repetition
of every session maybe we do calm place, every session we do container or restoration team or
whatever other skills you might use. You're teaching them how to turn to that as a resource. We want
to make that a new habitual skill for them. Just remember continue to use what works and you'll have
more success and you're going to have less barriers when you get into this phase that we're going to
go into. So, if you remember yesterday, I said EDMR is based on an eight-phase model and
sometimes the eight phases are a little bit confusing for me. Now I understand them but I find when I'm
training that the eight phases kind of feel confusing and you're going to see why here in a moment.
So, phase one and two, very clear. Phase three is even really clear. Phases four through kind of six is
where it's a little bit like kind of feels like one phase, but it's not. And we'll talk about that. So, we're
going to look at phase three, this assessment phase. And this phase three, so essentially this is what
I'll tell you. Phases three through seven are done in one session. And this is why it's confusing to me a
little bit. Right?
So, three through seven is what an actual EDMR processes session looks like. So, you do these. This
would be like an actual trauma processing session. Again, once a client has been resourced, they're
ready to kind of start targeting things.
So, 3-7 is an actual session, which we're going to see some examples of today.
So, we're going to get into looking at this phase three, this assessment phase. And this is where we're
setting up what we're going to be targeting in EDMR. We're going to do this every single time that we
go into trauma processing.
So, any time we're going to work and really target trauma in a session we're going to be using this
assessment. A lot of people, and myself included, call this the protocol. This is the EDMR protocol. I
follow this every time that I do a session.
Especially a processing session.
And a couple of things that we're going to stress really fast that I want to just review that we touched
on yesterday, remember that I said EDMR is going to be very different than talk therapy. This isn't us
analyzing what's coming up for them. This isn't us giving them our perspective of what's coming up
with EDMR you're that compassionate companion on the journey with them. You can be the guide
when you they need you to be. Most of the time they're going to be the guide. We're going to let this
free association happen. Wherever their brain goes. Even if they're thinking this is weird, this is stupid.

I tell them that's normal. Or they're thinking about the cars driving by or grocery lists, whatever it is. I
just want them to notice where their brain goes and then that's all they need to do. Just allow
themselves to kind of trail off or go wherever the mind wants to go. And going back to, again, we all
have this natural healing process, that adaptive resolution process in our brain. The bilateral
stimulation is helping us to access that. And so allowing the brain to kind of filter to where it needs to
go, even if it feels completely unrelated, there's usually a meaning and a purpose for why the mind is
going to where it needs to go. It's filtering through things. Maybe it's also telling us what blocks we're
running into. This is all normal. But really their job is just to notice what comes up and then when we
check in, as the clinician, I just need them to give me an idea of what's coming up. Even if it's weird,
stupid, they're blocked, nothing, what they tell me and sometimes I say the more that they tell me and I
don't need all the details, but the more they tell me of the gist of what's coming up, the more I can help
them get unstuck or help the processing proceed. But again, their job is just to really notice and they're
in control of that. As the clinician, my job is to make sure that they've been resourced and I have to
really trust the client. I have to trust in their ability to heal. I have to trust in their adaptive resolution
system. It's there. I promise. Even if it feels like it might not be.
And I really, you're going to hear this with a lot within EDMR. Trust the process, right? But remember
that we're on this kind of journey with them together. So, we're not dictating what comes up. I might
help redirect when needed. But we're not asking why they think something comes up. So, you have to
learn with EDMR how to really take on a different therapeutic approach because it's going to be very
different than that psychoanalytical process that sometimes we find ourselves in.
And I'm going to jump back into where do we go with this next. Calm place. Icons. I'll tell you what
those are really briefly. Maybe you didn't do restoration team. An icon might just be a hero or someone
that they've emulated that they've looked up to, if they've struggled to maybe come up with some of
those restorative figures. So, someone that they've emulated that's kind of a hero. We've got
container. You can even do just a resourcing activity where you have them envision just their future
ideal self. And the future template we'll talk about later, but this is essentially where you have them
envision or reacting or responding the way they want to respond to future anticipated threats. We can
also use that movie theater analogy to create some safe distancing if they get really disregulated. So,
reminding them just to observe it on the screen. Do they want to fast forward? Do they want to stop?
Or with the train.
Wheel of Fortune is one where we come up with different resources. It's one that I'll actually add to the
drive for you.
We talked about that restoration team. And another one I like to utilize is what I call the inner advisor. If
they had an inner advisor, what would this inner advisor tell them to do?
Now in this phase three, this assessment phase, and again, this is where we don't start using this
protocol. And what you're going to see, this protocol, what you're going to see kind of done here, this is
where you need additional training because you're going to find and see in the demonstrations that
you see today and as I kind of described this, that so many different things can come up. That you
really need to know how to handle those from an EDMR perspective. So, we're going to look at this

assessment phase today. Just so you know what it would look like if you started to use EDMR. This is
where we kind of move to. And this is part of that process.
So, I'm going to pull up the protocol sheet that I use and essentially I target, we're targeting eight
specific things.
When we get into this phase three.
Sorry, give me just a new share here.
This EDMR protocol, this is what we're going to use at the beginning of every session.
And remembering again that we're staying out of the way here. One thing this is intended to do when
we get to phase three, these eight questions to me, I think about it this way. This is like getting an X-
ray view or a snapshot of how this is being stored for the client. We already know the why is because
there's something here that's been maladaptively stored as traumatic. The client likely knows that, too.
We're not getting into like analyzing why this is an issue, why do they think this. All of that. We're not
doing that. So, this is we really stay out of the way when we set this up. So, we literally follow this. And
I know a lot of people, clinicians will say it just feels so like, you know, formulated. And it does. And
clients will get used to it. But it's important because in order for us to access that neural network of
trauma that has become stuck, we have to kind of stir it up and activate it the way that it's being stored
for the client. Not the way that we perceive it, but the way that it is for the client. That's going to allow
us to get in and be able to access those little neural pieces that are kind of causing those barriers and
issues. So, think of this as like this X-ray view of what and how this is being stored for the client.
And literally, you use about this much information. You don't need more than this to write. I'm going to
show you this is one of the nice things about EDMR that I also think clients end up appreciating
because they're used to being asked all these questions, details about what occurred. So, the very first
question we start with, and again this protocol is eight questions total.
And I can typically set this up in like 5-10 minutes. So, this can be very like brief. I'm not wanting to
spend a lot of time here because, again, a lot of what we're going to be doing is where we're going to
add the bilateral stimulation next. So, we typically just want to set this up first 5-10 minutes and then
move into the next phase.
But again, this is giving us that picture of what we're going to try to resolve. This is also how we're kind
of treatment planning. It's giving us a goal and it's giving us something that we're working towards,
which we're going to look at. So, we're doing to start with, okay, what are we targeting today? What's
the presenting issue? So, what are they wanting to focus on today?
It can be an issue, a memory, and I'll give you an example of one that I just did.
Let me pull it up on my notes. This will be helpful for you guys.
Beautiful session.
Okay. This can be one of the things, if you remember to what I said yesterday, that one of the things I
appreciated about EDMR is you don't even have to start with the trauma. It's a sneaky, therapeutic
way to get them to deal with the trauma.a. They come in, here is the issue. And this is what is going on
this week. I'll give you an example of one that I just recently did. So, this presenting issue for this client
was she is having a block in moving forward with her business. And fear of feeling rejected and feeling

less than if she moves forward.

And that's I need to know. I don't need to say why is there a block, what are you feeling blocked about.
Again, it's just what she wants to tell me. This can literally be like to two sentences. The one thing I will
ask if I'm working on something that is passed. If she says I wanted to target a car accident I was in, I
would want to know when did this happen. That's going to tell us about those Prague – fragmentations,
the emotional blocks that we might run into of things that we need to be considerate of. Again, very
brief here. Block in moving forward with the business. Fear of rejection and feeling less than.
And then we're going to ask what's the worst part. So, when they bring this up, what part feels the
most intense? Or stands out the most to them?
This is where they really will tend to get, this is where the activation tends to lie. This can be an image.
So, maybe it's an image of if we're using the car crash example, it could be that image of seeing the
taillights get closer and closer or the head lights getting closer and closer in the rearview mirror. It
could be a sound. It could be whatever just stands out the most. For this client, she said her worst part
was that she's going to have to reach out to everyone because it's been nine years and there's this
fear that they all hate me, will shame me, or will all go talk about me. So, for her, she said she
described it kind of as an image. It's reaching out to everyone. And this image in my mind of them
rejecting this idea or shaming me for kind of being off the business scene for as long as I have. That's
the worst part. So, the part that stands out the most, the most intense part.
And then we move into what we call the negative cognition. Keep in mind, yesterday I noted this, but
EMDR, they love acronyms. You might see the negative cognition listed somewhere in your slides as
the NC, the negative cognition. We're going to ask them what is the negative belief. The car accident
and the worst part of seeing those head lights get closer. As they think about that now, so it's now
looking back, as they think about that now, as they bring that up, what's the belief that it leaves them
with? And this is where I give the list of negative and positive cognitions. So, I'll give them this list and I
want this negative statement to be an, "I am" statement because this is the way they're internalizing
this experience.
It can be anything on thissist will.
– this list.
The bold categories are telling us more about clinically kind of like okay it was about their feeling
responsible or they feel like they had a loss of control. The way that I use this. I printed the negative
and positive cognitions. I have the negative on one side and positive on the other. I have it laminated
and I just give this to them if we're in office. If we're on Zoom, I literally share screen like you're seeing
is done here. I ask them when they bring up that car accident and imagine seeing those head lights
getting closer, that worst part, as they think about that now. So, it's now looking back, what is the belief
that it still triggers or brings up for them? So, maybe it's I am in danger or I'm not safe.
And for the client that I was sharing with you all about, she said I'm not good enough and I will fail. So,
it's common that sometimes they'll pick multiple negative cognitions. That's okay. I want the one that
kind of like one or two that stand out the most.
Like which one kind of fits best or is the strongest as you think about this?

Now I get asked this question a lot, as well. Are you sure it's okay to give them the list of cognitions?
Doesn't that bring up a lot of negative internal stuff? And my belief is this. The negative internal is
already there. We've been avoiding it for long enough. So, to me also from a neurobiology standpoint ,
if you think back we talked about that inhibition. If I'm already getting them a little bit triggered, but
they're still in that window of tolerance, I know that Brocha region of the brain that allows us to give
words to experience is also being inhibited. I give them the list to find the words that fit best with their
experience. I ask them to find that negative cognition, the NC. So, it's now looking back.
As they think about this car accident that they were in and that worst part of the head lights they could
see getting closer, what do they wish they could feel? So, even though this happened, what do they
wish they could feel or believe about themselves that's going to really help them get past this? That it's
like if I believed this, I could be over this finally?
And this is where I will share that positive cognition list. And it doesn't have to be the opposite.
Oftentimes it's not, which is interesting.
Usually they'll pick a handful of these positive ones. Again, narrow it down to the one. It's like yeah,
this is the one that I really, if I could believe this, I would really feel like I could overcome this.
So, for my client example, she gave that I'm significant and important. That's what she wants to
believe.
We've taken the negative, now looking back, the beliefs it still brings up for them. What they want to
believe, even though this happened. And then we're going to take our first weird EMDR rating scale.
We call this the "voke" or the VOC. This VOC is the validity of cognition. It's essentially how true the
positive feels. We already know the negative is true or it wouldn't be an issue. It's how true does this
positive cognition feel to them now.
So, as they bring up this incident that we're targeting, how true does this positive belief feel to to them?
And this is rated on a scale of 1-7. Weird scale, I know.
And one is completely false and seven is completely true.
So, one being completely false, seven being completely true. As they bring this up now, as they're
thinking about all this, how true does it feel to them? The positive cognition? So, we could say okay, as
you think about this car accident now, as you think about seeing those head lights coming in and still
that idea that you're in danger, how true does it feel that you're safe?
That I am safe now?
And one being false, seven being true, as we think about the incident right now?
And usually it will be like anywhere between a 2-4.
Sometimes they'll be like oh, it's a seven. I know that I'm safe now. If that happens, then we'll say
something like okay, if we fully believe we're safe now, then maybe why do you feel like this is still an
issue. Is there something else that you're feeling like maybe you don't believe that's keeping you stuck
with this memory? So, maybe we would go back to the positive cognition list.
And I'll address this because I know I'll get questions. Why is it 1-7? I don't know. Genuinely believe
Shapiro made it 1-7 and it's just the way she differentiates them so clients don't get confused and you
separate them out. One starts high and you try to move it down. Either way. If you wanted to change

like 1-10, that's totally fine. We mainly just want to rate. This is going to be a checkpoint for us as the
clinician. We're wanting to rate how true it is and that's what we're going to be looking for as we get
into processing. We're looking for this to increase in how strongly the client believes.
So, that's called that VOC or the "voke." Then we're going to rate what are the emotions that come up.
So, as they think about, and I'll tell you, let me go back really fast since we're doing this example. The
positive cognition for my client, she said she wanted to feel significant and important. As she thought
about putting herself back out there in this new business venture, how true does it feel that she is
significant and important? She rated that as a two.
And then we're going to say what emotions come up. So, as we bring up this initial incident of putting
yourself back out there in the business, this block moving forward with the business. Feeling less than.
What are the emotions that are coming up right now?
And this one I say do not ask anything else as the clinician. Stay out of the way. Because again this is
just their perception of how it's being stored. So, even if I know there's like 15 other emotions that
they're not listing, those emotions are going to come up for them when we get into the processing and
it's not about what I think. It's about the client's experience. They'll feel and experience those when we
get into processing. So, this is again just us seeing the lens of how they're seeing it, which is more
important than my interpretation. This client said I feel sick and tearful. I do think it's interesting when
you ask this emotions question that they'll identify typically either a lot of emotions or it will be one or
two. Why those emotions, we don't ask any follow-up questions. So, the car accident. As they bring
this up and they start to think about it, where do they start to feel it in their body?
And for the client that I was using as an example, she has really good somatic awareness, but she
said she feels it in her solar plexus region, it feels black and bleak and connected to her chest and it's
being stretched out and restricted. The back of the neck.
And then she even described it feels like there's two arteries running down the back of her neck.
There's a thick substance being pulled down and creating this cold effect. Sometimes they'll just say
things like in my stomach. This is the one place that because of that disconnect that occurs, this is the
one place that I will just ask I want them to just describe the sensations to me. So, if they say I notice it
in my stomach, I'll say tell me about what you noticed in my stomach. They say I noticed it in my chest.
Same thing. Describe that for me. What are you noticing there?
That's it. We're just trying to get that body and the brain kind of connected and in sync.
And then we're going to ask this final question. We call this the SUD. The objective – subjective unit of
disturbance. How disturbing does that feel to us now? Now as we think about it.
And this client, she gave me, she said it was a 10.
As we were talking about it, that it was triggering a lot of anxiety.
Sometimes I'll notice that they'll rate this one lower than it actually is. Again, doesn't really matter
because I know that it's going to get to where it needs to go.
When we get there. But again, this is just about their perception.
So, really quick, those are just like those eight questions that we're going to get into and this is how
we're going to set up every session. We're not asking follow-up on any of the questions. We're literally

just gathering the information. We're getting it as kind of a snapshot and this is telling us again how
that's being stored in those neural networks. Those barriers that are there and how this is getting in the
way.
So, once we've set this up, then we move into phase four.
So, one thing I want to say about this, as you're setting up the assessment, there's no bilateral
stimulation. So, we're just talking and setting this up.
Phase four, desensitization is where we're going to be adding the bilateral stimulation.
And we're going to look at what desensitization looks like in a minute. I am going to switch over to a
clip for you guys because we're going to be watching this demonstration of where we're going to see
how we're going to set this up.
So, I want you guys to – hopefully you can see this. I think I'm going to show this one first.
So, I'm just going to show the setup of this.
If I can here. Sorry. My technical difficulties. I'm going to show mine because I want us to see the
whole video of the other one we're going to play. But I want to show you just what this is going to look
like to set this up.
So, this is in a training I did. Obviously, a while ago. But just listen for how we're setting this up. So,
we're going to see what we're targeting.
>> I was sitting around the kitchen table with my grandmother and my aunt.
My grandmother started to talk about her childhood trauma. I had never heard her talk about this
before, I was like yeah, let's hear it. And my aunt reached over the table and started shaking me and
yelling in my face. We don't talk about anything that's sad or anything that hurt.
>> So what feels the worst about that incident?
When you bring that up?
The worst part is feeling like I am powerless and that I have no choice but to be a victim.
>> Do you want a list of negative beliefs? When you bring that up, what's kind of the belief that fits
best?
Do you want my list?
>> Normally this would be a client – this is a clinician that's familiar with them. So, we give that
negative cognition list. But she's familiar with those, so she might come up with her own. But I want
you to notice viscerally what we see going on. Also even though it feels somewhat detached, you're
going to see the way we restore detachment when we get into this.
>> Probably I am powerless or I can't have a voice.
>> So, her worst part, right, was that I have no choice but to be a victim and I'm powerless. Usually
you'll see kind of relation if it's a worst part that's descriptive like that. The worst part and the negative
cognition will sometimes be closely related.
>> Probably more the I can't have a voice one.
>> What do you wish you could believe despite this happening?
>> That I can trust myself to protect myself, essentially.
Like I can be my own protector.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: It doesn't have to be on the list. The list is something I get asked a lot, as
well. I can billion my own protector is obviously not on the positive cognition list. It's just more
important that the negative cognition and the positive cognition, the list is just there as a way to help
them find the right words. It just needs to be an "I am" statement. So, it's the way they are internalizing
things. The way they are personalizing things. So, that's what we're kind of looking at. So, we need to
look at how it's being internalized.
>> When you bring this incident up, like back visiting your family and you're at the table and this
happens with your grandma and your aunt, what are the emotions that you notice that come up for you
now?
>> An intense fear, for sure.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: All of these are now looking back. So, we're thinking of as she's thinking
back on the incident, what's the way she's internalized it. What would she like to believe that's going to
help her get unstuck. And the emotions are as we're thinking about this now, the emotions that come
back.
>> Embarrassment and humiliation.
And there's some anger there, too.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Where do you notice that physically? When you bring up those emotions?
>> In my hands. I feel like my hands are shaking. And my right leg is shaking.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Do you notice that physically?
>> Yeah, my throat gets really tight and my jaw.
>> Where else?
>> In my chest. A cutting, intense fear.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: If she would have just said "chest" we would have said okay, what are the
actual sensations associated with that?
But she did good describing those.
>> What would you rate the intensity of like the emotions and that physical sensation like of this event
when you bring that up now? Where it still feels awful is a 10, and 0 is it doesn't bother me.
>> Probably a 7 or an 8.
>> And this belief. Want to go back to the positive belief for a minute because I didn't rate this. But
when you bring this up and wanting to have that belief that I can be my own protector and I can kind of
trust myself, how true does that feel to you right now? Like where seven is 100% I believe that?
>> Probably a one.

>> Are you okay if I tap?
>> Yeah.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Okay, this is our assessment phase. You see we literally set that up in
about five minutes.
We set that assessment up in just about five minutes. We're not wanting to spend a majority of time

there. Sometimes if you get the really talky clients you kind of just have to move it along. Sometimes
as they're talking I'll be like, "What feels like the worst out of that?" You kind of have to move it along.
Once they know how EMDR works, usually they just get in the rhythm of knowing that this is how we
set it up and then we move into where we're going to see we add the desensitization. That's what that
phase three looks like, what we call the EMDR protocol. I'm going to use this at every single session
when we're getting ready to do trauma processing, when we are ready to start working through some
of the traumas. We're going to just kind of work with one accident at a time. And one of the nice things
is that you can start with something current, like I said, like the crisis of the week. And I know because
of that adaptive information processing system that the brain is going to take it where it needs to go.
The brain has already made a linkage or a connection to why this is causing distress. So, I know that
even if I start with something current or that feels kind of like surfacing compared to other traumas they
faced, sometimes it's still a way that you'll get into being able to go back to where this started. The
brain will naturally go to where it's connected and that's how you get them to process maybe traumas
that otherwise they might be avoidant of. We're going to work with one incident at a time in each
session and then we're going to see what this desensitization phase looks like after we come back
from break and after we take some questions we're going to see the session kind of play out. Of what
that looks like. This one that you're going to see, you're going to see I'm going to do actual tapping with
her. So, you're going to see what that looks like. Later today, I'm going to show you one with the eye
movements that I thought I was going to use first. But I want you to see that protocol set up. And the
other session is really good because she does some really good prep work before and I want us to see
that whole thing. We'll see this session, I'll be teaching along as we go. We're going to be talking about
what this next phase looks like, where we add the bilateral stimulation. How we do that, what we're
watching for, because this is the part that takes a lot of training to be able to understand what you're
doing and what you're watching for and how to work with things if big stressors arise. I'm excited for us
to get into the meat of this and see what happens from here in this next phase. We're going to go
ahead and we're going to take our first 15-minute break. So, we'll be back a quarter till. When we
come back, we'll take some questions. So, if you have any questions about anything that's going on
this morning. Please feel free to put those, get those sent over to Ryan and we'll address those. And I
look forward to hearing from you guys and seeing you guys shortly. So, have a good 15-minute break
and we'll see you when we get back.
(Break).
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Welcome back, everyone. Ryan, I thought those questions were all
important. I'm look fogger ward to going through those with you.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: We will get all of them then. We've got a lot. Some of them there's some
overlap. You guys have some things you're thinking all of the same stuff. Before I jump into those, one
of the things that keeps popping up in the Q&A is I like learning with Megan. I want more opportunities
to learn with Megan. (Chuckling) I don't want to turn this into an infomercial, but what I can tell you is
look in the portal you all have access to. There's opportunities in there. And watch your emails in the
days that are coming after the event. More opportunities for you to learn with Megan if you'd like. Just

keep an eye out for those.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: And if there are more specific things you're wanting or have an interest in
learning from me in particular, let Ryan know what those are, too, and we'd be happy to – .
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Megan is great about meeting your needs. When you guys ask for stuff
Wtalk about how we best do that and there's a whole bunch of resources. She is easy to find online,
too. Again, if you're feeling like – if you haven't done that. Most of the time you guys do. Feel free to
check her out. She's got a website with all kinds of information on it. That's useful for folks, as well.
Questions that we're going to get through right now, a bunch. The first, though, should we have clients
try all the resources kind of one at a time? And then let them pick the ones they want to use? Or are
you as a therapist making a judgment based on your work with them and how they're responding to
things?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Both. You can usually get a feel if someone comes in and they're already
telling you they don't have a lot of like supports, then maybe restoration team isn't the place that you
start. Maybe it's calm place. I don't like to do them like back to back to back. I know we did calm place
and container back to back yesterday. More so so you guys could get a feel of what those skills are
and have those tools. But I might do one of those a session. So, maybe in those early first 2 to 3 to 4
weeks together, maybe I'm practicing one each week and practicing those and using those as we
move forward.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And then there was some iteration of this a few times. Do you use VLS
with all the resourcing techniques? Is there a time you would not use it before you get to phase three?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, this is honestly more clinical preference. There are a lot of EMDR
clinicians who vary. I have a preference. I like to use the bilateral stimulation to enhance. I use it as a
way to enhance the positive sensations, to immerse them in the experience. Especially if it's someone
who struggles with attention, concentration, it can really help that way. There's some people who don't
like it for resourcing and they're able to do meditation. If they're able to just sit and do that, again, that's
client preference. And clinician preference. Do what kind of feels right for you and right for the client. I
just have a personal preference I just like it because of that dual awareness that it provides.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Might be a similar answer for this. Calm place, does the client have a
choice between tapping or the eye movements or do you recommend the tapping? Does it matter?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, I recommend whatever works for them. I was doing a training in Italy
in July in person and Italians only want to use eye movements. It's really funny. They're like anti-
tapping, anti-sound. They just want to use eye movements. So, if that's the client preference or your
clinical preference, yeah. You have eyes to open and they're doing calm place with the eye
movements as the bilateral stimulation. Again, I think it's just the preference.
Of what will the client likes. But eyes opened or closed is fine with that, too, even if you are doing the
tapping.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And again, we've got a mix of people who are new to EMDR and people

who have been trained in EMDR long ago and are refreshing. A couple from folks who have been
using EMDR and maybe having some issues that they would like you to weigh in on. The first, always
find it challenges to treat nightmares. Just want you to kind of dwell on that a little bit. What happens
with that? If that's not something you're talking about later, but that's an issue they're having.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: No, I think this is a great one. And honestly it's something that comes up a
lot, especially with trauma and PTSD. We know that nightmares and those kind of things can occur.
One of the things that I like to do is have them practice calm place right before bed or even like playing
out, there's actually a nightmare and dream protocol that you can use when you get further trained in
EMDR. What they essentially have you do is you lay in bed, you can do it a couple ways. You add
your tapping and you think about the dreams you want to have that are positive and you tap them in.
Or if you have nightmares, you have them do a session on the nightmare where they target it or write
out what they wanted the ending to be. I like having a container for bad dreams. So, just a bad dream
container. This is something that I actually learned from Arial Schwartz. Have these containers
specifically for nighttime. They can wake up with a bad dream and imagine putting it in a dream con
tearer. – container.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Clients often have increasing emotions outside of the session. And
again, not nightmares, but really vivid dreams. Wanting to know your experience and how you work
with that.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, that's really common. I think it's really part of that natural processing
system that occurs. Vivid dreams are very common after an EMDR session. Maybe that happens for a
couple nights. That's the brain's way of integrating this new information that it's taken in. I just let them
know ahead of time what to expect. Again, right, as trauma survivors, we just want to know what to
expect. If you give them a heads up, they're like okay, I was told this happened. It creates less
distress. Also what you'll see, you'll see this play out differently, you'll either find that clients are more
emotionally drained and kind of like wiped out after a session. Or maybe they're going to be a little bit
more emotional or sensitive to those emotions, but not to a point of disregulation, just like we've kind of
opened that up a bit and they're still filtering through that. If you prepare them and let them know
usually after a nights or two nights' sleep that gets better. Use those resourcing skills if they need to.
Completely normal.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Then a number of questions on the specific exercises. Trail exercise.
This individual found themselves alone each time. It was stressful. They didn't want to be alone.
Where to go from there when the trail isn't providing the safety that you were hoping for or trying to
create?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah. I would bring in, let's imagine bringing in that restoration team this
time and see what happens. Or who would you want there that you're having a hard time pulling in
even if you're not sure. I go back to that restoration team a lot. If that is a challenge because crucially I
– usually I do this one, this is an exercise that is done after calm place, container. This is really leading

up to getting into the trauma work where maybe even yourself as the therapist. You and I, I'm your
kind of copilot here. Can we be on this trail together? What are we going to figure out together. Those
things can work quite well for that. And maybe it's going back to some of those resources and like I
would want that restoration team or those additional resources done so you could pull from those
when you run into these kind of blocks.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Then a couple about people who struggle to visualize things. So, what
goes on if the client is getting stuck in the calm place activity? Can't visualize moving through the
path? They stay in one spot on the path?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: I like eyes open for that and I really like to use visual aids and prompts.
Maybe it's like you pull up a picture of your ideal calm place, a place you've been, and your eyes are
open while I describe it. And usually with the visual additive I found that they're able to see that a little
bit more and describe it. Also, it doesn't even have to be visual. Your processing doesn't have to be
visual. Some people might just hear words or they might just say like all I thought about this time was
connected or I still have a lot of clients who say I saw three particular words and nothing else. Or it can
be really abstract. Like now I'm feeling that in my chest or it's moved down into my belly. But those
visual aids can be huge. So, even with the pulling up an image of a path, where would you want to go
next. Having eyes open while they add bila lateral stimulation while they're looking at those visual aids
can help alleviate a lot of that.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: When you ask what emotions come up N do you ever give them a list to
go through identifying emotions ahead of time for people who lack the vocabulary to express or aren't
very expressive with those words? Do you give them something ahead of time? A helper?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: In that early preparation and history-taking phases, you're going to do those
normal therapeutic interventions, right? So, maybe we've learned about attachment styles. Maybe
we've talked about the feelings and emotions wheel where it shows like what they lead back to. So, I
might have done something like that. I have one in my office that's out displayed that sometimes I just
will give to them or they can look at and identify. But I really like honestly with the emotions, I like their
description of it because again it goes back to that interpretation of how they see it. And a lot of us
maybe haven't had as much knowledge on emotions. But it's still important to see, because what you
usually find is they'll be like, "Oh, I listed it as fear and sadness" and then they get into processing and
they're like, "Wow, I didn't realize how much resentment or grief was there" they'll naturally get into
those things. If you feel like they lack that, that's something I would spend more time developing in that
phase one and phase two.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And someone again just kind of looking at bilateral stimulation. You get
to this point where you're starting to incorporate that. Do you mention that ahead of time? You're
discussing with them BLS stuff with them at the get go.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, remember you educate on what the bilateral stimulation is in phase
two. Before you've gotten here, they better know what bilateral stimulation is and you should have
introduced that to those resources activities and this should be done before this phase. We're never
doing this without that prior psychoeducation prior.

>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: There were a couple different questions when you showed the video of
you in action. They noted you were taking a lot of notes. You looked like you were writing a lot of
things down. There's a variety of questions: What are you writing down? Are you explaining to clients
that you're writing down? Are they okay with the fact that you're writing a lot down? Curious to what
was going on there.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Great question, honestly. And I'm glad you asked this because this is one I
need to elaborate on. I actually like to take notes of each of those things. I do it right in front of them. I
let them know I'm writing verbatim what you give to me. And then what I do is I have an EMDR binder
that I use with each client. This isn't something that goes into their chart. I put like their list of resources
in there so they each kind of have a tab. And then I put all their protocols in there so I know what we're
targeting and I say this is to help us so if we get stuck we can come back and look at themes of other
things that we've targeted. So, I like to write those things down. And honestly, I've pulled those out so
many times with clients where I feel like this was related to like a protocol or an incident that we
targeted before. And we might go back to those and look through those together where we're kind of
seeing that. And honestly, I feel like clients see it as like you're really invested in the process that's
taking place and that you really are like trying to help them navigate through this. That you've invested
enough, that you're not just there, but it's like we're kind of problem solving together. We're both being
investigators about how everything has been related on their journey to healing.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And the last two for now, memory-related stuff. Maybe we'll pull them
together. Every time you have to reprocess the same memory more than once, how do we get to the
touch stone memory? Does that show up naturally as we're processing?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, let me take the first one first. Reprocessing the memory. There might
be five triggers to the same memory or three or four negative cognitions that formed just from this one
event. Yes. Sometimes you'll have to revisit the same memory that you worked with or the same
incident, but usually they look different. So, it's around different parts of it. That's very common. And
then in phase three, if you want to get to that touch stone memory, there's a couple ways you can do
this. I like that side-door approach, where we can just start where it is, and I know that once I get into
there, I know I ho to bridge it back to something earlier, which we'll talk about to get to that touch stone
memory. There's other ways where it can be like we might have set up this protocol like we just saw in
this demonstration. And then before I even get into that, I might say okay, when was the first time you
remember feeling? Like I want you to close your eyes, go back in time, when was the first time you
remember feeling like you're always going to have to be like a victim or you couldn't talk about things.
Maybe we set up a whole new protocol and that would be the touch stone. I like to naturally get there
in processing, because I feel like you find what it's truly related to when you naturally sift through it in
their processing, which will look at how we're going to do that. And it will always go there with current
distress and you become a believer when you've had your own EMDR experience. I didn't want it to go
there and it went there. You have a more accurate representation of that touch stone event if you
naturally let that process occur.

>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Perfect. That's it for questions for now. Keep them coming, folks.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Thanks, Ryan. I did add more of those resource for you guys to the
additional resource list over the break. I've gotten pretty much everything added on there in terms of
links and other things that you might be needing. I will add the path exercise and that tuning in
exercise for you later today. Hopefully that will be helpful just to have those other resources you can
go to or links for those things. I even put the childhood video that I talked about with additional
childhood triggers on there. If you guys get time, check that out. That's a really good channel, as well.
He does some things with tying back childhood trauma triggers to how they're presenting present day
that I liked. We saw that protocol setup. You will see me write a lot. I like to take notes of what comes
up. It helps me kind of track themes. I'm always doing that right in front of them so they know, they see
what I'm writing. Most of my clients just become kind of attuned to that. Sometimes I'll write just the
significant patterns, especially if they give you a lot. I will maybe just make notes of summaries of the
themes that I'm kind of hearing. And we'll go through that at the next session. I'll pull that out. Here is
what I thought was interesting and I saw you process. I try to be really transparent with that process as
I am taking notes. I found, and this is just my own way that I like to do this, I guess, as a clinician, an
EMDR clinician. I found that it helps me really see like maybe some of those other touch stone
memories that we might need to come back to because there's so much that gets processed within
EMDR that it's important for us to really learn how to cue into what are those themes because all kinds
of stuff comes up, right, which we'll see here in just a minute. Let's talk about this desensitization
phase.
I'm going to pull up a document that talks about what we're going to do here.
The next phase we're going to get into, this phase four, the desensitization, the desensitization is
ultimately where we're reprocessing things, we're desensitizing the triggers. It's really where we're
going to spend a majority of our session, our processing session. So, let me show you a couple
different things that we can look at to describe this. On our protocol sheet, we saw this is what we're
targeting. I'm going to use that and come back to that. And we're going to look at this next phase,
phase four, desensitization. I'm saying what kind of bilateral stimulation would you like to utilize today?
They've already been practicing this with some of the resourcing activities or at least been introduced
to it. And I'm going to summarize what we targeted. We're going to bring up this initial incident. We're
going to bring up the worst part. I kind of just restate it back to them. And I say I just want you, just
bring this all up. Let your mind go wherever it needs to go. There's no right or wrong way to do this. No
right or wrong thing to think about. Just let whatever comes up come up. I'll pause you at certain times
and we'll check in. And we'll see how you're doing. I'm just going to be checking to make sure that it's
progressing, which we're going to look at in a minute. I'll clarify what I mean by that.
But basically, what we're going to do, and kind of when we're starting, and you're going to see this will
look a little different in both demos. But it's good for you to see the flexibility that actually is like
available and possible within EMDR. So, kind of the rule of thumb to start as you actually go through

the EMDR training. They kind of tell you when they start the desensitization, let them have about 24
sets. This would be 1, 2, right. A cadence would be one set. So, about 24 of those would be what they
call a set.
I liken that to about 30 seconds. I tell people kind of just let them process for about 30 seconds. Now,
this is specific to adults.
Kids you have to do less with. They cannot tolerate that long. They don't have the attention span. It
could be anywhere from five to 20 seconds.
But we don't usually ever do longer than about 30 seconds depending on the age and the child's ability
with that. So, you shorten it down with kids. Adults or teenagers that can handle it, right around 30
seconds. Depending now, some of the time what will occur is people need a longer time to process in
sets. Because I use EMDR all the time, I've kind of learned what to watch for that kind of tells me how
they process. And usually the more you work with someone in EMDR you kind of learn the way they
process. So, some people need like they just want 30 seconds, they're done. Some need 45 seconds.
You're going to see kind of that variable. And watching for the body language during this time. So,
when we add the bilateral stimulation, I'm just watching for the somatic responses. That's telling me
that there's things activated. I'm looking for those deep swallows, the tightening muscles in the face, or
any of those shifts or emotions. That's all telling me that there's some type of activation and processing
occurring. So, we're going to add that bilateral stimulation for roughly 30 seconds. It will be completely
silent. So, again, this part is important. The client is just thinking about what is coming up. They're not
talking about it. So, they're just thinking and processing and I say it will just be totally silent. And let
yourself just think about it and I explain when we verbalize it, it actually slows the processing down.
And so I want it to just be silent. So, lit be totally silent that 30 seconds. They're just thinking on things.
I'll pause after that. I'll check in if the duration was good enough for them. And then I'll say what are
you noticing now that's a common kind of phrase? What are you noticing, what are you getting now?
What's coming up? They'll share that with me.
And when you're first, again, learning this, you just continue to say okay, let's go with that. And you
allow them to kind of continue to sift through that.
And we just continue with this over and over. We do 30 seconds, check in, 30 seconds, check in. And
you're going to do this for the majority of the session. It's the biggest chunk of the session that you sit
in. And we're watching for some things. This is what we're going to be watching for.
We call these mile markers. I'm just looking for any change any thoughts, perceptions, images, or
whatever. Any type of change. Doesn't have to be positive, but I just want to see that there's thought
progression to some degree taking place.
That we need to be aware of and why we check in is sometimes we run into what's called blocked
processing. All I saw this time was blackness and I got nothing. Okay, let's explore that further. You
add the bilateral stimulation for another 30 seconds, you check in, same thing. All I saw was blackness
and I was getting nothing. When we hear the same thing repeated without any change, that means
that there is a block in processing and we have to do something to kind of assist them or to jump start
that.

And that's where we'll talk about how we use kind of some of these open-ended nudges or questions.
So, we're looking for there to be a continuation and change and then we're looking for what we call an
abreaction, which is a strong emotional response or shift. This is normal. And you have to be prepared
as a clinician. EMDR can elicit a lot of emotions. Abreactions are part of the process. It's where we sea
a peak in emotional, they're anxious and upset, but there's thought progress going on. Essentially
they're being allowed to grieve and feel what they've repressed. And you let this happen. So,
oftentimes we get anxious and we want to shut that down. I might check in. Are you okay? Doing
great? I will let them know there will be a strong emotional response at some point. That's normal. And
I want you to know it only lasts about five minutes, five-ten minutes worst case scenario. It will peak
and come down. That's part of the process. That's also how we get the desensitization to start to
occur. Emotions will come up. You have to learn as the clinician to sit with those and to trust the
process and allow the client to grieve those and to work through them. Because when we shut that
down, so when we're like, I don't know, they got really emotional, so I took them back to calm place,
maybe we need to do that. But if we continue to do that and it's with a client that is resourced, what are
we communicating? Eventually we communicate intrinsically those emotions are too big for us. And us
as the therapist, if we're having them regulate those and put them away, they're going to internalize
that those emotions or feeling are too much for them. Be mindful of that. An abreaction piece is very
normal. Give them a chance to feel that and trust the process. It will turn. Then we look for tides are
turning. This is where we see maybe there's thought progression. It kind of starts maybe heavier or
negative. We have a peak in emotions and then we see the peak start to dissipate. And we're seeing
them have this change where they start to identify either more options, more positive thoughts, more
realizations. So, it's the tides are turning. Then we're looking for these continual kind of like gradual
like new insights. New options. They're kind of resolving it on their own, essentially. Where we hear a
sense of safety, control, or choice. And then once we continue to hear them stay very positive after
these other things have occurred, if that stays positive for anywhere from 3-5 kind of sets, then I'm
going to check back in. And I'm not checking in before this. So, keep this in mind. I rarely will check in.
I won't check in until probably very close to the end of the session. Then I'm going to check back in
and I'm going to say okay, that positive belief where she said I wanted to believe I was significant and
important. Rated that as a two. How true is that feeling to you right now? We're wanting that to get as
close to a seven as possible. You really want that to be a six or a seven. I'm waiting to the end to really
write that. If they say it's like a five, then I might say something like okay, what would it take to fully
believe that? What would it take to get this to a seven? And then I'm going to ask them to think about
that as they add that bilateral stimulation. Once that positive cognition is as true as it gets, usually I'll
check in with the distress level and I'll say how distressing does this feel to you now? She started as a
10, she was able to get to a 0 or a 1 by the end of that session that I did with her. I want to show the
client that there's been a change in just a matter of a session. And then once that occurs, we move
into, I say okay, is there anything else in your body that you're noticing? And once those things have
kind of happened, that to me means we've fully desensitized and worked through the trigger, whatever
we were processing, and then we'll move into phase five, which is done at the very end of the session

typically, so we'll talk about this here in just a bit. We're going to watch this demonstration. Again, this
was done at an EMDR training I did recently. A client allowed me to use this. I'll be teaching as we're
going. I'll explain what's happening. There are some parts where it can be, where she might get a little
bit meek. If she does, I'll just share with you what she is saying. So, we're going to watch this
desensitization phase right now where we see what this looks like as we start to process. You're also
going to see my style, you're going to see there's differences. I want you to see that. You're going to
see my style and then you're going to see another clinician's style later today. In another demo. So,
that you can see kind of that there is some way to kind of adapt your style into the way we utilize
EMDR.
Let me get this pulled up for us.
>> Create something to kind of get you centered and like clear the distraction from everyone being
around.
>> I think I'm okay.
>> Okay. So, I want you to just start with bringing up – .
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, remember we set up that protocol with her. You're going to hear me.
This is what we're going to do as we move into the eye movements. You're going to see me do the
tapping with this with her. What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to just kind of re-narrate what we
set up. I'm going to do this in an effort to kind of get that system a little bit charged and activated,
meaning kind of getting her on guard, alert, triggered, so we can access that neural network and try to
get it reprocessed.
>> Going home, you're back seeing your family, you're at the table that night with grandma and your
aunt, grandma wanting to share about that trauma and you're asking her to and grabbing you and
shaking you and saying we don't talk about anything like that. And then that worst part I have no
choice but to be a victim and I'm powerless and I can't have a voice and then notice that emotion, just
that embarrassment.
>> Also why we write it down so we can pull from what came up.
The intense fear, the humiliation. Notice the shakiness, tightness. And let's just go with that. Okay?
>> Okay.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, if this is our first EMDR session, which it's not. I've done demos with her
before. This is where I would say there's nothing right or wrong that can come up. Just let your mind
go wherever it needs to go. Even if it feels like it doesn't have relevance, meaning, or importance,
there's a reason why it's coming up. It's your brain naturally trying to get to where it needs to go. The
most important thing for me as a clinician is just to let me know you can summarize or tell me what
comes up, even if it's like all I'm thinking about is you tapping. Totally okay. That's just going to help
me redirect you when needed.
>> Breath in. Let go.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She has both hands out. I know you can't see that. But I would be tapping
back and forth.

We're watching for activation in facial muscles throughout. I'm watching her breathing, her shoulder
movements. Even in eyes closed in this sometimes when you do tapping – .
So, now we're pausing. So, this would be one set. We're going to breathe in. We're going to have that
congruent breathing. And she is familiar with EMDR, but we'd normally say, "Okay, so tell me what
you're noticing or what played out in your mind or what came up for you."
>> It started off with my aunt shaking me and getting in my face and she turned kind of into this
monster and she just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and I finally opened my eye to look at
the monster. And it looked like my mother. And I was just so tiny and I kept getting smaller and smaller
until I didn't exist.
>> Okay, let's just keep going with that. Do you want me to prompt you when to open? Or do you want
to open when you feel like you're – .
>> You can prompt me.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: With eye movements, I tell clients who are familiar with EMDR, don't worry
about getting lost in the process. When you feel like you're ready or you feel like you're getting ready
to pause just open your eyes for me. That indicates when we stop. I am giving her that choice, right? I
can bring her out of it or we can go back in. She gave me something here now that came up. She says
aunt is getting big and bigger and bigger. She's like a monster. She saw her mom and she's getting
smaller. In EMDR we don't say, "Interesting, let's talk." We don't say that. We stay out of the way. We
say let's continue to go with that or explore that.
>> Breath in.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: We might say just notice that or continue to unpack that, I use a lot.
We can see a lot of that activation in the throat is telling me the vagus nerve is activated. Look at that
movement in chest, shoulders.
>> Breath in.
>> Just noticing the somatic experience of literally feeling like I couldn't breathe. And then just this
image of this huge weight on top of my chest. And then the weight turned into my mom just yelling in
my face. Don't say anything, don't say anything.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: A huge weight on her chest feeling like she can't breathe and hearing her
mom say, "Don't say anything, don't say anything." Now we're just going to continue to go with that.
>> Keep going with that. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. Okay? Breath in for me.
Doing good.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: What you're seeing here is if I go for longer than 30 seconds, it's usually
because, and what I know about her in particular is she likes to continue – I might follow those somatic
cues and allow her, when I see that activation occurring, I don't necessarily want to disrupt that. I might
allow that set to go on a little bit longer. Rule of thumb is you kind of start practicing around 30
seconds. When you get more apt and attuned to each client and the rhythm of EMDR, you learn how
to just adapt that for each client. Now, I don't want to go for like two minutes. I like to keep mine
somewhere in between 30 seconds and a minute. In most cases.
>> It was just an image of my house. It was beautiful. My mom's flowers were beautifully planted. And

my clothes. I always had the perfect clothes. And then it was me at school and everything was
supposed to be perfect. But I was just standing in the classroom by myself feeling like I couldn't talk to
anyone. Scared to talk to anyone. And I just stood there. I couldn't move or think or anything.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Let's go with that. Feeling like you're in the classroom. This time I want you
to notice why you feel like you couldn't say anything. What else was going on then, okay?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: What you're seeing right here is the use of the interweave. She is saying I'm
thinking of our perfect house, all of these things. Then she goes to I'm in school. And hear the theme. I
want you to pay attention to this. It goes back to what mom said earlier and the aunt. Don't say
anything, don't say anything. Now she's saying I'm in school and it's like I'm stuck and I can't say
anything.
And so I'm just kind of guiding her back into that why. So, it's a curiosity question, what we would call
an interweave, why couldn't she say anything? What else was going on? We're getting back to that
touch stone.
>> Breath in.
>> Going into the classroom to talk to that part of me to figure out why she felt like she couldn't say
anything. And then all the teachers came in, trying to figure out why she couldn't leave the room, too.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: What she is saying, because she's kind of quiet here is trying to figure out
why she wasn't saying anything.
>>> It was just me putting my hands over my head and my body and getting into the fetal position and
just saying it's too much, it's too much.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She said seeing that image, she goes in the fetal position. Arms over her
head. It's too much, it's too much.
>> I can't deal with it.
>> Is it too much with them all there?
>> Mm.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Meaning the teachers and all the adults.
>> It was too much with even just me there, just thinking about it.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She says too much with even just her there just thinking about it.
>> Go with that. We can have them leave if you want to. Okay? Breath in.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: It's too much. I gave her that option. We're going to continue to go with that.
Even though she's saying it's too much, this is where you have to trust the process. I gave her that
option. She can have them leave if she wants to.
Notice that processing, right? We're still seeing that activation take place. The throat. We're seeing
restricted breathing sometimes, big inhaled breaths. We're still seeing that tightening. When we pause,
this is one thing I want to mention. What we kind of say as we say okay, so we do this congruent
breath at the end of each set. Take a breath in. And then I'll usually say and now let that go. Kind of
signaling we can let go whatever just came up.
>> All the teachers and all the people disappeared and she said I kind of just imagined just sitting with

her child self.

>> Too much fear. I'll never be functional in the world.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Too much fear to ever be functional in the world.
>> Like she couldn't do the things all the teachers wanted her to do. It was just too much just trying to
be a part of the world.
>> Okay.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She couldn't do what all the teachers were wanting her to do. Too much to
be just a part of the world.
>> Keep going with that. And I want you to ask her where that fear comes from. Like what she is afraid
of. Why it feels too much. See where that is coming from. Okay? Breath in.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: I'm just nudging her to look at that further. Why is that feeling too much.
We're trying to get to where do those beliefs come from. But I want her to find this on her own because
that's going to be more empowering than anything else? And as we look at trauma as a good example
of this. Anyone who has experienced ongoing trauma, right. We have always been told how to act,
think, feel, behave, when to express, what to express. And one of the things that I think is just EMDR
is she is expressing right now in the session, right, all the adults telling her how to behave, all their
expectations, right? All these things. She's never got on the this place where she could just be. If I
interject here, what do I risk becoming? If I tell her what to feel or if I interject my perception, I become
like everyone else who has told her how to think, feel, act, and behave. It's paramount that she gets
her own realization and insight here because she hasn't had permission to do that we're kind of
hearing. Again, we see that activation, so we're going to continue with the sets here.
>> She just has to pretend that everything is fine all the time. So she's not actually allowed to feel
anything or else if she does then she'll get screamed at. Because we're supposed to be perfect.
>> Why does it have to be perfect?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Because it hasn't been an option. Ultimately that's what we're hearing. We'll
be screamed at and it isn't an option to be any other way except to follow those expectations is what
we're hearing.
>> Who put that there?
>> I was just in the kitchen with my mom and I was just yelling at her like this isn't mine. This is all of
your fear. It was never mine to carry. I want to talk to people and I want to go to school. And I want to
be a part of the world.
>> Let's keep going with that, okay? Let's keep noticing being there in the kitchen with mom.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Think about this being also we're seeing a little bit of a turning point. Can't
say anything. I can't handle it. I want to cover my ears. What we're kind of hearing now is now she is
screaming at mom. She is vocalizing in her mind this isn't mine to carry. I want to be a part of the
world. I want to speak. I want to say things.
>> My first instinct was being afraid or feeling guilty that my mom felt sad. She had this blank face and
went back into her bedroom for a while and came out and said want lunch? Like she always does.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, kind of where she is picking up, if anyone is struggling to follow. We're

continuing to play out this image. Obviously, this didn't really happen. She never screamed at mom at
the table. But it's her imagining all the things she wants to say and allowing her to like what would
happen from there. And she says she starts to feel bad for mom because mom is sad, mom goes into
the room. Mom comes back out and she imagines her just saying you want lunch, right? And she's just
playing this out, what this would be like.
>> Like it didn't even matter.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She's saying it didn't even matter what she had said or expressed to her
mom. She's imagining mom playing that off even if she did express it. I asked her, because this is a
past memory, what she was imagining like the little her do. Like her as a kid. What was she kind of,
what would she be doing in this circumstance.
>> Just sitting and staring.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Couldn't move. She's just sitting and staring on the counter, the little child
her.
>> Let's just keep going with that. What it would take her to move.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, what would it take that child part to move. She's stuck on that counter.
She kind of just imagined that, right? That she would be stuck.
>> I acquaint – can't really connect with me on the counter. It just fast forwarded back to being at the
table with my aunt and me asking what do you need to move right now. And it was just like
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, I want to point something out here, just keep this in mind. As we learned
about trauma yesterday, and there's this fragmentation that occurs, these pieces that get stuck and
fragmented. So, the part of her that's really stuck in this image or memory is that part of her that's like
a child where this wounding occurred. Where it's very indicative or telling of the wounding that's there.
Is it still stuck? And she's saying she was kind of asking what she could do to move. But that hasn't
been really an option because this has been very fragmented.
>> I need someone to listen is what came up and to take responsibility. So, I didn't feel like I was the
crazy one.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She was saying all that could come up for her if she could move as a kid
was someone to listen and take responsibility so that she didn't feel like the crazy one.
>> So, I'm just going to put this out there – .
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Before we play this part, I want to touch on one thing. I want you to notice
this. Notice we're not asking, "Well, what made you feel crazy?" We're not digging as the therapist.
She knows what's going on and there's probably a lot more processing. She knows what this links
back to. She know what is she felt crazy about. She knows all of this. Right? The details are there.
She's lived it. She's experienced it. So, again, I'm just letting her and honoring her and helping her
move through it. I'm going to give her an interweave as a directive to see if that fragmented piece, get
it to move a little bit.

>> I'm feeling that little you that came up that feels stuck, right, is really the part that was getting
triggered or activated at the table with grandma and aunt. So, if she is needing someone to take
responsibility and I'm needing someone to do these things. Like we need that back where it literally
was in the house. What would that look like? I just want you to go with that this time.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, if you hear the connection here. So, our initial incident started as it's her
as an adult. She was recently on a with her aunt and her grandma. Aunt grabs her and says we don't
talk about those things, meaning trauma. So, what I pointed out to her because we're pointing out the
fragmentation is what became activated in that event when it occurred was all the times as a child
when she was told what to do and to be quiet. We're kind of pulling it back to the initial incident and
then we're going to see what comes up now.
>> I just walked into the kitchen and said mom, we're done. And I left, which I was never able to do
then.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, she imagines herself now going back to this touch stone memory of her
as a child where she is stuck, right? In the kitchen with mom. She can't say anything. And she's saying
I go and grab like little me as a child and I tell my mom we're done and we leave and she says we
were never able to do that as a kid.
>> And I just took her to my house that I have now. We just sat on the floor and played. I liked that.
>> I want you to keep going with that. You took her. She is not there. She's at your house. Maybe
there is something you need to tell her. Tell her about the fear. Or how she can share her emotions
while she is there with you.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: We're taking that fragmented piece. They're just sitting there on the floor
and playing. So, I give her another prompt because we know where that stuckness is. That it's been
quieted, silented, what does she want to say to her. We're doing an internal family systems updating.
So, we're letting this piece that's been traumatized know it has a voice and a choice now.
>> I kind of went blank for a second. And I'm just kind of having a conversation with myself to figure
out what was going on.
You don't have to spend so much time trying to protect everyone. You don't have to be so kind. And
then at the last moment it just came into my head I've never given people a chance to be responsible.
I've always taken all the responsibility.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She is saying she doesn't have to protect everyone by just giving them a
kind answer or doing what they say, right? But also here where she takes on this element of
responsibility and says I've never given anyone the opportunity to take on responsibility for
themselves.
>> Let's keep going with that.
>> It's just me back at the table with my grandma and aunt. I just said what I wanted to say and what I
really wanted to say was you really scared me. It's not okay to grab me like that. And I kissed my
grandma and I said I'll come back later and I left. And I went and sat in the car and just breathed for a
second. I still felt afraid, but I felt like me.
>> You noticed you were able to say what you wanted. Even though you were afraid, you still had me.

You had you.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Think about this three-prong approach as we watch this. We started with
this issue. It was kind of the presenting issue that's in the current moment. We see it go back to kind of
some of the core of the issue. And then we see it come back to where she's at now.Like where this
issue transpired, how she wanted to handle this, which kind of would play into the future of what the
option would be next time of getting to walk away.
>> It kind of turned into a third perspective. I was just watching myself drive down the road. Just this
overwhelming feeling of that's somebody I could respect. I like that girl.
She's driving. Free.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She was just driving. She could respect herself because she didn't have to
stay in that.
>> I want you to kind of keep going with that, but add in, you said so you could respect this girl, she's
free. I want you to think about like who you were really enthe ended intended to be. You've got all
these things put on you like fear. Like when we strip that away and your fear and the person you
respect, see who that person is that you're really genuinely intended to be without everyone else's
crap on it.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: And what I'm doing here is we got to a positive where she said I see myself
kind of driving away. So, I'm hearing her that she has a choice, right? And a different option, which is
positive. And she makes the comment about how that's someone I can respect. What I'm doing is I
want to enhance that. That's positive in there. I want her to see that stronger. So, I'm using kind of like
a little bit of an aid or like an enhancement to really have her see that who she has been all along.
That she's been someone that's worthy of respect.
>> I was at my cabin in Arizona where, which is where I feel the most me. But the me I found there is
the me that's kind of like my highest power me, my best self me. A big T-shirt covered in paint with
messy hair. I was just in a conversation with her, who am I. She was like just this.
You're curious and you're passionate.
And you're calm.
But the biggest thing at the end was that you just get to be alive and that's enough for you now. You
don't have to be anything.
Yeah.
>> Let's go with that. You don't have to be anything.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: We're going to enhance that a little bit more because that's kind of that
positive that we're hearing again.
>> Just back to the classroom with that little me. And she was just dancing and skipping. She just kept
yelling that I'm great as I am. I'm great as I am. It wasn't about the grades that she made or any of the
mistakes that she made in school or how she taught to people or what she felt. Then it was the me – .
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She's saying she pictured the child self kind of dancing around the kitchen
and just saying I'm great as I am. I'm great as I am. And it wasn't about because she got certain

grades or did any of those other expected roles.

>> Me at the cabin and the me as I am now and the little me at school. We're all just sitting on the
porch and kind of just sitting.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, then she imagined her ideal self that was at the cabin, that child self, all
just sitting on the porch watching the sunset. It felt peaceful.
>> Can we check in for a minute?

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Notice we haven't checked in up until this point. This would be this majority
of our session, right? And if you see the time here, so we spent about five minutes setting up the
protocol. So, we've been here for about 26 minutes. And that desensitization phase four. Notice I
haven't checked in with anything yet. I'm not going to until I start to hear we get to this natural kind of
resolution. So, now I'm going to be checking in and seeing what the shifts have been that have
occurred.
>> Does this still fit? I can be my own protector and trust myself.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Oftentimes the positive cognition will actually shift. So, what they think they
want to believe early on, because again it's that perception of how the trauma is stored. Once you kind
of desensitized it, it's very common for them when you check back in, is that still what you want to
believe? Is there something else you found it's like no, this is what I really needed to feel or to believe.
That's what you're hearing me do.
>> How does that feel now when you bring up – .
>> She's saying that still fits that she can be her own protector. The incident of going home at the
table. With grandma and your aunt.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: We're going to bring up the initial incident when she thinks about what she
started with, how true is that feeling to her now that we've done some processing.
>> Um ...
I think probably a six.
Yeah.
>> So, you have the you now, that ideal self, and that little part of you. What would it take for all of the
–.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So, she rated it as a six. And remember on that positive, when we're rating
that positive cognition, on that VOC or the "voke," the validity of how true it feels, we want that to be as
close to a seven as we can get. Even though she rated it as a six, I want to just see if there is anything
that could make it feel stronger, because I know the more that I enhance the positive, the more that
she really ties in and believes to this perception, I know that the less distress we're probably going to
have related to this current issue that we started with.
So, when they rate it like a six, what you're seeing is now I'm kind of going to go back in and see what
we can do to strengthen it. You're seeing me use what we call another interweave here where I'm just
saying kind of this last image she left off of herself now, her ideal future self, and her as a child.

>> To fully believe that statement.

>> What's it going to take for them to fully believe her positive cognition?
That I truly can be my own protector.
>> What's it going to take for them to believe that?
>> I always felt like that in order to protect myself, like it wouldn't have fear. And that's a part of myself
that I've hated for so long. It's a part of me that was scared. And it was just that I can be scared.
Yeah.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: I think this piece is really important, too. Right? She says so I asked her
what would it take for them to kind of all believe that she can be her own protector. And she kind of
had this realization on her own. Again, more powerful than what I could add. Where she says I've kind
of always believed I couldn't protect myself if I had any type of fear. And now she is kind of coming to
this conclusion that I can have fear and still protect myself.
>> And the fear was a way that kept you safe for a long time. It was never there to hurt you.
You can give that part some gratitude to thank you for being there to help you survive all those times.
Just let it know that you don't have that hate for it anymore. And that you can let it act in a different way
now.
>> Okay.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Because she acknowledged that fear has been a barrier, I wanted to soften
that again. Using those internal family systems, I'm asking her to not see that as a negative trait, that
that was a survival mechanism. Given that she was a child, fear was natural. We want to soften that a
little bit so she doesn't see the fear as kind of a trigger or a negative thing. That fear is natural.
>> I just imagined the fearful me at the table. It was all quiet and hunched over. And the me now, I kind
of went over. It's okay. No, I don't need that anymore. My fear has always felt like it gave me my
compassion, but as a door mat. And this time I felt like my fear gave me compassion.
>> Let's go with that for another minute. That the fear can give you compassion and it's strong.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She said that thought the fear had always been what made her
compassionate, but now she's realizing it was a door mat. But it can still give the compassion without
having to be that way, right? So, now I'm just enhancing that realization,ening that., softening that. And
strengthening that resolve in herself. Knowing again that that fear doesn't have to be negative.
>> It kept coming up that it was me as I am now, my little scared self, with her backpack on. We can
go anywhere now.
>> So where are we at when we bring up kind of – .
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So she is saying we can kind of go anywhere. Now we're going to check
back in.
>> Being at the table with grandma and your aunt and grandma grabs you. Where are we at with this
belief that I can be my own protector and I can even be free.
Seven? Where is the distress level at? Thinking back to that night at the table with grandma and aunt?

>> My body still feels shaky, a lot of shakiness in my hands and chest, but I don't feel distressed. Just
that energy in my body.
>> Let's see if you can take that emotion, where your emotion kind of feels good now. Let's see if we
can connect that with your body? And kind of calm some of those areas down this time?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: We see we got that VOC, that positive as strong as it can be. Ken I'm
checking in. What is she noticing in her body. Anything lingering? She says emotions feel good. Body
still feels kind of jumpy. Again, I'm trying to get that connection back so where it's like can we expand
those emotions and can we send some of that safety down into her body?
>> The saying we can go anywhere we want to go. Why not go somewhere you like or somewhere
that makes you feel safe. I went back to my calm place. Yeah, it went away.
>> Yeah, I like that.

Okay. Let's bring up that original incident. You're at the table with grandma and your aunt. This time I
want you to just hold that with this belief.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: So we're able to get that resolution. She thought about that calm place. So,
this right now is where we're seeing the end of the desensitization. We're seeing that we've hit each of
those mile markers. So, I'm going to go back to the sheet and we're going to talk about what we saw
for a second. So that we understand kind of what we're looking at.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: In this desensitization phase, what we just saw is the desensitization. This is
where you spend the majority of your time in an EMDR trauma processing session. We are looking for
these things to occur. We saw changes in thoughts and images. Even though we didn't see really
intense emotion, I saw that somatically. Saw that intensity of I couldn't handle it. She was crying quite
a bit during this session, even though I know that's difficult to see. But that abreaction, that's important
to kind of see. And then we saw we went from like there's I can't speak, I can't say anything, I can't
handle it, there's no options, no sense of control, to then we see the tides turn where she says I'm able
to start to have options, like I don't have to stay in this. We hear some of those new realizations and
insights. We see her come up with this idea that she has options now. Once that stayed positive, I
checked in with that validity of that positive cognition, she rated it as a six. I wanted to strengthen it, so
we went back in and kind of strengthened that a little bit more. Then she rated it as a seven. Did a
body scan. She had that residual there. Pulling some of that emotional calmness down into her body.
Now that we've gotten that resolved, we're going to move into phase five, which is what we call, and I'll
show you here, the installation.
We're going to have them bring up the initial incident that we were starting with, along with the positive
cognition and we're going to ask them to hold those together. We're creating a new link, it has a new
meaning. Before it used to be the negative cognition. Now we're asking her to bring that initial incident
and holding it along with the positive cognition. So, we're going to see this.
Here now in just a second. This desensitization. So, this is phase three.
Hang on.

Let me reshare this for us.

>> That I can be free.
>> So, I bring up the initial incident at the dinner table, along with this belief that I can be my own
protector and be free.
And then one thing that we do with the installation is I keep it constricted. So, if you notice that set was
very short. So, I do about 15-16 seconds. Sometimes shorter. Or 15-16 of like a cadence. And I'm
keeping that really confined to really create a linkage. I don't want it wandering off now. I want to keep
it like contained to now we're creating this new link that it's associated with this positive statement. So,
about a short set right here, the installation.
>> Yeah, I didn't feel like I needed to get rid of that memory.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Short, quick set, I should say. It's a short quick, set.
>> Able to embrace each other.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She said she didn't need to get rid of that initial memory, but that she just
kind of embraced herself. Right? Herself then.
>> For me really quick. Is there anywhere that you're kind of still – .
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: What we're looking for with the installation is we're wanting it to stay
positive. I'll do that really brief 15 seconds what came up. And then I'm holding those and I'm wanting
to just hear that that stays positive. It's kind of a way that we're checking in that there's nothing residual
there. If it was, it wasn't 100% positive. This time it is. If the positive cognition is not here and if you get
here, like if you followed everything correctly, we're not going to move to the installation before we've
seen those positive changes. By the time you get here, it will, you know, nine out of ten times it's going
to be positive when I check in with her. And especially because I've kept it somewhat contained. If
maybe there's still like you hear any like inkling of doubt or anything, I'll just say let's just hold onto this
belief that I can be my own protector and I'm free and I'll do one more short, 15, 16 cadences or
whatever that's quick and short. To just enhance that again. That's phase five. The installation phase.
And now that I've installed it, so we've installed the new belief with this initial incident, I'm going to ask
her to do a body scan, which is phase six.
>> I kind of just want to do one more – .
>> I'm just going to make sure there's nothing negative lingering in heresies teem. So, she is like yeah,
she says, and sometimes I'll say notice where we kind of first identified where we started. What are
you feeling physically now? And if she says shoulders feel good, my stomach is still a little tight, I'll say
I want you to think about sending the taps as healing taps or breathing in this idea of that I am my own
protector and free now and I'll do another short, quick set of taps. That body scan is phase six.
>> You guys get to go wherever you want to go now.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: I'm wanting to embrace with her that they have an option and a choice
moving forward. I'm closing out with now she gets to see herself, the traumatized child that was her
and that fearful part just going wherever they want to go now.

Just to enhance this future kind of perspective.

>> Just fear.
>> – . >> MEGAN BOARDMAN: She said here, I can just be present.
So, once she sits with that, that stays positive, then that's where we know that we've completed our
EMDR session. So, we would say congratulations, you've finished your first EMDR session. What
we're seeing, and I'm going to go back to this so we can kind of wrap up on what we just did.
So, phase four, the desensitization. That's where we spent about that 26 minutes. Wee just really
adding the bilateral stimulation. I'm using an interweave, just like directives if they get stuck. And if
maybe she became too distressed, I might say let's go to calm place for a minute as a way to titrate.
Or let's imagine restoration team. That's all done in phase four. That's about anywhere from 30
seconds to a minute of adding the bilateral stimulation, whether it be eye movements or tapping. And
then we're going to check in after each set and we're just going to continue with that until we get to that
natural kind of resolution. When we do, after we've gone through those mile markers, then we move
into that phase five, which is that installation, where I said this is a little bit more contained. The
installation is done at the end. This is done at the very end once processing has kind of been complete
where we hold that initial negative target that we started with, with the positive cognition they want to
believe. And we do a really brief, short contained set of taps to really kind of lock that in. Then we do a
body scan to make sure everything is kind of clear.
Which is phase six.
So, I might ask them to bring up, like it says here, that initial incident. Are they noticing anything? Are
you going to let them sit with anything positive? And then the very end of this session would be what
we call closure. Reminding the client that they can utilize resources. This is where I would say you
might continue normal to continue kind of processing for the next day or so. Usually after a couple
good nights' sleep. Your body goes into that REM cycle. This is where we would spend some time, as
well, just kind of talking about insights they had, new realizations, where I would share kind of
therapeutically I thought it was interesting to see such and such happen or it was neat to see like make
these connections, right? So, we can do some of that validation. Which I find is really important. And
usually I like, like I said, to stagger. At the next session, I like to talk about maybe some of those new
insights, things that have come up, let them process some of those new things. Every time we move
something out of the way that has been blocked in the brain, it allows new information to come in and
we have new things to filter, talk about, think through. So, I find that that kind of staggering those
sessions is important.
Now let's talk about if we ran out of time and we didn't get all the way through this session. What do
we do? That happens. Totally okay. I honestly think it happens quite frequently with complex trauma. If
that does happen. Let's say you're running out of time. If I've got like 10-15 minutes left and I know
we're nowhere near where we need to be, I'll usually let my client know, we've got about 15 minutes
left. I want you to find a place of where we're at right now of where you want to go to where you feel
like it would be an okay place to press pause or stop for this session. Then I would do a couple more
sets. Then usually I'm going to end with maybe what Arial Schwartz calls a mini-installation, where you

can bring up an initial what you started with and you do a mini-installation installing it for the time
being. And then I'm going to close with something like taking it back through calm place. Or we're
imagining putting the session, what we call the unfinished or incomplete session in the container until
we come back to it next time. But then I'm going to get them grounded before they leave through calm
place or restoration team or breath work or whatever that is going to be. And then when they come in
the next session, if they put it in the container or whatever, I'm going to ask them to envision taking
that out of the container and then I'm going to re-set up that protocol. The incident, the worst part. I'm
going to check in and see if all of those things still fit. Oftentimes they'll change if you've had an
incomplete session that way. And then we're going to continue with resume processing. Adding that
desensitization. Good thing to keep in mind that those incomplete and unfinished sessions can happen
quite a bit. If you remember again we go back to those eight phases, which I want to bring up one
more time for you guys.
Don't get lost in this part.
Okay. You've seen this history treatment planning yesterday. The preparation. And then remembering
that phase three through seven are essentially done in one session. This is where we take the protocol
for five minutes. We spend the majority of this session in phase four. This is done towards the end,
once it's gotten toward a positive closure space, we do a body scan and then we do some closure. The
next phase would happen the next week. They come in and I'm checking back in, essentially. So, have
they still felt like desensitization or not as triggered around what we targeted last week? Any new
insights or realizations that have come up? Anything like that? Any new triggers that they've noticed?
Because sometimes that can happen, as well. We move one thing and then the next thing will present
itself. So, those are those eight phases that we're looking at when we get into EMDR.
So, let me go back to one other thing here.
So, in this next session, this re-evaluation. I like this to be a full session. Checking in with them. I'm
looking for success around noticing that they haven't been bothered. You'll hear that quite a bit.
Looking for any new triggers, emotions, anything different that's kind of changed. And if there isn't any
disturbance around it and they're still feeling calm and peaceful about it, then we know that that was
likely reprocessed. Someone had asked earlier do you ever have to reprocess the same thing multiple
times? Sure, right? This could also be a session where it's lick – like maybe they come back and they
say yeah, I feel good about this, but now I'm noticing that this kind of stood out from that incident and
we could retarget that and reprocess that maybe in the next session.
So, I do want to stop because I know that there's going to be a lot of questions around what we just
saw.
So, I do think it's important that we talk through some of those because I do think, and knowing from
trainings that I've done in the past, this part is really important. I want you to ask questions about what
you saw, the process we just saw, before we kind of move into seeing things done a little bit differently.
I'm going to go to Ryan. We're going to take some of those questions. And I'll help you kind of
understand maybe some of those things that we just witnessed a little bit better.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Powering on the lights. No one can see me. You want me to go

specifically? There's a list of questions that's built up.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Okay, I'm sure.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: I'm going to start by kind of posing what's better than all these resources
you're getting? It's more free resources. I wanted to share something really cool that Jenny on our
team did for you guys. If you two to your portal, she's added a tab that has a huge capital letters, it
says, "FREE." If you go there, you can check out a bunch of free stuff in there. Other things. Some of
them feature Megan. Just for you folks looking for that kind of stuff, go there and check it out. It's really
cool what she did. Questions that we've got.
I think one that's come up a few times and you probably mentioned it, how long is an EMDR session.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, if you guys noticed that one, the one we just saw was about 38
minutes. That was setting up the protocol and that was to the end of that one. You can see it be done
quick like that. Honestly, this is in perfect therapy world. Like less than 5% of us actually exist in. In my
perfect world, I would have like 90 minutes for an EMDR session, not meaning that we're going to
process the whole time, but just in case maybe we run into a roadblock, that would be ideal.
It's not like real life most of the time. Most of my sessions are 60 minutes. I can usually do pretty good
work with a 60-minute session like 45 minutes. More complex trauma clients like we might just have
more incomplete sessions if you do have time constraints. Be mindful keeping in place a way you're
going to close those sessions. But anywhere what you just saw 38-45 minutes. Not including kind of
like us visiting about that.
That's pretty typical. Incomplete again with complex is pretty typical, but all of mine are on a 60-minute
basis. If you have the flexibility, do 90 minutes because then you would get a nice little break for a
minute, too.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And folks, wondering your recommendations. Should they go through
EMDR personally before moving forward and getting fully trained and using with clients?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: One thing that is nice about the full training is you actually are required to do
EMDR yourself in the training. So, you partner up in diads and you will have a partner and one of you
will be the clinician and you will be required to be the client. And all of the skills you will practice in both
roles. So, not only will you be the client, but you will also be the clinician. Most of the time that's
honestly really nice.
And usually helps you understand it a little bit more and takes the pressure off you as the clinician.
So, if you're worried about that, know that with a good EMDR training, you should have the opportunity
to be both.
So, that would be covered that way. If you still wanted to do it individually, yeah, I mean obviously, I
would recommend that. But again, that's up to you.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And any recommendations around what kind of trauma to start with in
EMDR? Some modalities suggest clients start with the most distressing memory and in hopes when
that gets resolved some of the less distressing ones will be easier to deal with and processed on their
own. EMDR – .

(Audio stopped.
>> MADDIE: Ryan, you froze for a bit.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, I wasn't sure if he was me or Ryan.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Am I unfroze now? I'm back! I'm going to read this again.
Recommendations around what kind of traumas to start with in EMDR. So, in many modalities, you
kind of start with that most distressing memory in hopes that the less-distressing stuff might even
process on its own. Is that applicable here in EMDR? Do you go for that most distressing?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Don't do that in EMDR. Nuh-uh. Because it's the most advanced skill set, I
wouldn't want to start with the most traumatic. Because it is a free association and therapeutic
process, that's where people have had a bad experience. They don't understand what's going to come
up. It does take some getting useed to of allowing ourselves to freely navigate our thoughts. If you
start with a super big trauma that can be really overwhelming. You got to kind of slowly warm them up
to that. When we do trainings, I usually tell clinicians that are going through certification start with
lower-level traumas. That's why that timeline and those other things are important. Start with things
that you know aren't related to the biggest traumas that they have. Start with things that you know
aren't going to hit on their top five most big traumatic incidents that they've had. That's going to help
them build tolerance for it. It's also going to help them familiarize them with the process of what
processing is like. You also don't know how they're going to process when they get in. Right? We just
saw Dalton is very like she will process with a lot of imagination. The other demonstration you're going
to see is very more abstract. You don't know how they're going to respond to it. Don't ever start with
like the most traumatic thing. Warm them up through that and kind of help them build that tolerance
level.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Here is causeway on how do you or can you work with clients who have
ongoing suicidal ideation? Can you use EMDR in this case? And would you just stay in the resourcing
phase? Until those symptoms decrease? What happens?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, really great question. There was actually, and I referenced this a lot.
There was a really, really great study that came out about five years ago where they looked at the
effectiveness of EMDR for clients with ongoing and present suicidalty and suicidal ideations and even
attempts. And what they did is they set up kind of a template around okay, these clients were seen 2-3
times a week for the course of like 12 weeks or something. And they actually saw a significant
decrease in suicidalty. The one thing that you do differently is what we call, and this is more of like
when we get into EMDR there are all these different protocols. We have restrictive processing. You
build the resource, obviously. But then when you get into the processing, you don't go back into the
trauma. You just go back into desensitizing and restricted processing around the intensity of the
emotions coming up.
So, some people call it like the atip model. Some people call it like the EMD. But it's restricted
processing and it keeps it nice and restricted at the end where you're doing short sets. And it's just

lowering kind of the distress level. You kind of use that as a way to kind of teach them emotional
regulation. And it's been shown to be extremely effective. But great question.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: There were a lot of questions about the tapping in the video. I'll put some
of these together.
You are doing the tapping.
In this case.
So, there were a lot of questions about that. Why in this case choosing to be the one tapping the client
rather than have them tap themselves? There's a number of questions about the speed, as well.
Really noticed that it was fast. Is that intentional? If you could speak to both of those.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, I think I mentioned this yesterday. This is kind of the way I was
trained, too. And honestly comes from an attachment-based background. I honestly like to be the one
that does the tapping in office when that's an option if it's with a client that I feel comfortable doing that
with and they're comfortable. You saw the tray there between us. That kind of creates this barrier. It
gives an additive of external stimulation. Some people need that connection. It creates an attunement.
Right? It also to me I think it's really positive from like an attachment-based standpoint. You're
teaching healthy, safe touch in a way that allows them to learn how to maybe like accept that in
appropriate ways with boundaries, right? I know for a lot of us we're like oh my gosh, we're not
supposed to do that therapeutically. I know. I felt the same way when this was first introduced to me
until I actually had it done personally. And I was like wow, that's actually way more effective than me
tapping. Because some of the time when you're tapping yourself you might be worried about like the
speed or am I doing this fast enough. It takes that out of it. Sometimes for me even the theratappers
that I like and a lot of clients like feels somewhat distant. So, I like kind of the connection there. Again,
you have to use that with discretion, obviously. And yes, the speed is going to be faster. So, in
resourcing like in some of those coping skills we're learning, it's always a little bit more like rhythmic
and calming. When you get to the desensitization phase, you want it to be quicker. And it's just what
they can tolerate. Because I had worked with her before. I knew we kind of have that rhythm. You kind
of develop that with clients. First time you would check in and say is that too fast? Is that okay? Is it
disruptive? Whatever. But we do want that to be quickener processing even if we're using theratappers
or eye movements. If you use eye movements, you want your fingers to be fast enough so they're able
to track it. You go as fast as they can tolerate it without having to break. So, it's fast enough that
they're working to really follow that. But yes, faster is there important.
Oh, you're muted.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: If I'm not froze, I'm muted today.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: That's okay.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: I'm out of rhythm, Megan. (Laughing) Someone is asking do you need a
stop signal? You're working with somebody, they need a way to indicate that they need some more
safety? They're getting flooded, how do you do that? How do you have them communicate that to you?

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, you'll see that in the next demonstration. She does a good job of
setting that up. Most of my clients, I just let them know if it becomes too much at any point, we can
take a break. We can pause or we can stop. Most of the time they just need to know that. So, they can
open their eyes. They can tell me they need a break. I also just have gotten pretty good at just
checking in as you're watching the somatic symptoms. Even sometimes when I'm tapping, I might say
just notice, you know, and if it gets too dysregulating, I'll pause and say how are we doing? Do we
need to take a break? But yeah, that stop signal piece is important to offer to them, as well.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: This individual was kind of nervous about knowing when to stop and kind
of check in. You kind of talked about checking in a little bit. Are there body language you're looking
for? A lot of people are like how do you know when you should check in and see what's going on?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: You really have to develop it to be honest. And it's really different. Like each
client kind of has a particular processing kind of tolerance window that you'll learn.
So, you kind of learn that with your client through a lot of trial and error. At first, this is why when you
go through certification training, we're like just start with 30 seconds. Or check 234 and say after that
30 seconds, is that long enough? Or did you need longer? Let the client be involved in how long that
is, if you're unsure about it. Check in at each set with that. I really will cue into the somatic activation
that's occurring. I don't like to stop when I see a lot of activation going on unless it's someone that I
know will start to kind of shut down when the activation occurs. So, in the case that we just saw, I'm
watching for like the swallows. I'm watching for the tension in the jaw. I can see breath changes, chest,
posture at certain times. So, when that's occurring, I'm letting her just kind of sit and process. When it
gets a little bit more still, then I'll check in.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: We'll keep going up to the lunch break with Q&A. Handling the end of the
session, a lot of people asked this. What's going on if your client is processing something significant,
but now we're at the end. How do you handle that?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Okay. I'm sure that half of you are going to hate my response to this, but I'm
going to give you my real response. Okay.
So, unfortunately, my clinical supervisor that trained me said, "Us as clinicians, we're like doctors.
Sometimes we wait in the doctors office" which is a terrible thing to tell us as procrastinators as
therapists. If I'm being honest, my real world answer is that if I'm really in an answer where it feels a
little bit disregulated to stop, everyone knows that I see for therapy knows that if you come to me and
you end up having to wait, I'm not going to go like 30 minutes. But let's say it's 10-15 minutes, know
that I'm going to give you the same respect in a session that we have if you get to a place that gets too
disregulated. Know that if that occurs, it likely means something is going on in that session. Really up
front with clients about that. But most of the time, you just have to become really mindful of your time.
Know that you're got a certain amount of time to process. So, don't wait till like a quarter after the hour
to start EMDR if you've only got like 45 minutes or 60 minutes. Like if you're in it, be mindful of when
you've got that 15 minutes. Sometimes with that 15 minutes, I'll say okay, let's sit with that for a few
more minutes. I might let them go for maybe another five minutes. Because you rapidly process

through this, right? And then I might start using more interweaves at that point to kind of like tighten
that up. But I will give them a cue usually around when we've got like 10 minutes at least of we don't
have a ton of time. This is super important to me and to you. I want to honor this so we can continue
with this until you feel like we need to stop. We can put it in the container but my advice would be
mindful of it. Again, worst-case scenario. I never cut someone off at that if I feel like they need the
honor of those additional 5-10 minutes. But I know that's always not an option.
But yes.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Lots of integrative folks. We've kind of talked about some of your favorite
stuff. The EMDR with IFS. There are a good number of folks who are DBT. Thoughts on utilizing
EMDR with DBT?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Bless you people for liking DBT. Because I like the EMDR portion of it. But I
have gratitude for DBT. One of the things I actually like that I think has been helpful in DBT groups,
especially when we had our IOP, you can use a lot of these resourcing skills as your mindfulness
skills. I also think that DBT could be an important preparation skill if you've got someone that really
struggles with regulation. Sometimes that intermingled mix of doing like, using these skills like if you
can use them in a more rounded way. If you've got someone coming in for individual sessions, maybe
they're not ready to address their trauma. You start teaching some of these like early regulation skills
as part of the mindfulness of DBT. But also maybe this is part of how you get them prepared and a
little bit more grounded and regulated to be prepared to going into trauma work. I think it works well
that way. I also really like when someone is like being seen individually, but they're also in groups. Like
a DBT group. That you know like what relaxation or mindfulness skills are being used. So, even if
there's overlap with some of those EMDR skills, that can also be really effective. Again, you're
requiring them to use that multiple times. And so you'll see progress that way. But that's actually one of
the ways that I like the interweave there, especially in group work.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: This is one that's come up in a number of different ways. But I think
they're all kind of asking the same kind of thing. Sometimes I get the impression that a client may be
elevating VOCs to please me as the therapist. I recognize it as part of their people-pleasing pattern.
How do we address this during processing?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Mm-hmm.
I address it just like that. So, I call out the part. I'll say I want you to get in touch with this part of
yourself. That is feeling like you have to even do this process the right way. That wants to do this right.
That wants to like not just please me, but please yourself. Is that part present right now. What is that
part needing? Let's just notice that part for a moment and then I'd ask them to add that bilateral
stimulation and see what comes up and then ID do that parts part with that and then get back into the
processing.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Someone was asking about sessions being done in office, telehealth, but
what about out in the field? Doing sessions out in the field in one of the places that the client might feel
safe?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, I like that idea. I mean I haven't done it. As long as there's like

confidentiality or respect to that nature, right. Like if you're doing in-home therapy or something like
that. As long as people that are there that can hear kind of what you're doing, as long as that
confidentiality is honored, yeah. I actually think what a great place to be able to do that.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Again, lots of questions. I might work with a certain type of population.
This individual working with populations who are deaf or visually impaired and EMDR, are there
adaptations for those folks?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, really good question, as well.
I mean visually impaired obviously we have those other ways that we can access this and process. I
also think with deaf, as well. You can even integrate like a lot of the processing to be carried out
through writing. So, they can write down what came up for them. You can have them put it in the sand
tray. You can do all kinds of different things that way that I think are really useful. I actually had
someone ask me this week in one of my consultation calls. I thought this was such a great question.
About they actually have MS right now. And they've lost feeling and sensation in one side of their
body. And he was like how do we do bilateral stimulation. We talked about the auditory piece. You can
be creative with those interventions. Honestly even with those limitation, sometimes I think the
processing is even cooler because you give them a creative way to express things that they've been
wanting to get out without the expectation that we have to maybe talk about it or see it or whatever it
might be.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: And a question about touchstone memories. What about when clients
have no declared memory or recollection of touchstone memories that are a source of recuring
emotions or beliefs that keep getting triggered.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Mm-hmm. Then you start with the current, presenting issues and trust the
process that when you even start with current-day things that eventually it's going to go back to things.
So, they're likely not going to be able to actively recall that if we're just talking about it right now. But
there's going to be certain things that will come up that will kind of open that doorway. It might not be
clear pictures. It might be just times of sensations or things that they heard of. But very common once
you start with present-day things. If you really trust that process, it will go back to things. It might not
be as early as like we want it to be, but it might go back to something earlier that had potential to
cause some distress, as well. But I see that happen all the time.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Any resources or modifications (audio froze).
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Uh-oh, you guys W. lost him again. Modifications for working with – I'm like
there's all kinds of modifications. Okay, modifications for working with – you froze.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: We must be eating the bandwidth today. You guys, all the questions are
crashing the thing. This was a person asking about resources or modifications for working with people
with intellectual or developmental disabilities.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Mm-hmm. There's some really good ones, as well, by I keep wanting to call
her Sherry Paulson, but I'm pretty sure it's Susan Paulson. I'll put a resource with the link to her. She's
the same one that does a lot of stuff with autism. And she has some really great ways to work with that
population.

>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: This one is a bit broad.

>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: That's okay.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: People wanting to understand interweaves. Speaking a little bit more to
what exactly we're doing there with interweaves.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Good question. If you can kind of hold onto that one, we'll get into it a little
bit more after lunch. But essentially, interweaves are an open-ended motivational interviewing question
where we've heard the same thing come up over and over. Like in that example, let's say she was like
I'm just sitting in that classroom and it's too much. I don't want to be there. And then I ask her okay,
let's explore that. And the same image comes up. Right? When we don't see movement or progression
in their thoughts, we have to kind of jump start the processing a little bit. They need that nudge or
maybe we need to open up an open-ended question to help the processing or zoom. That's what
interweaved are used for. It's used to help redirect the processing, reshift focus also to expand insight
and awareness. So, we use them to very frequently that way.
When you get really more comfortable with EMDR, you'll use them more. And they're fun. That's where
you can do a lot of the parts work and stuff in there. But we'll go through those a little bit more this
afternoon to talk about why those come up.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: I know you addressed this one yesterday, but there's been a number of
questions about it. So, maybe just to reiterate. EMDR clients who have dilution or schizophrenia, I
think you had a position on that? Is EMDR something I should be doing?
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Yeah, that's not my area and that's not an area that I feel comfortable doing
it. Quite honestly. For a couple reasons. Usually with that population there's a couple things that can
happen. They're either on a lot of medications, right? That interfere with our ability to access that
natural kind of processing. So, they're on kind of like stabilizers, like mood stabilizers or things that are
going to take. We have to be able to kind of arouse the system. But also with that I'm also really
hesitant with how freely associated EMDR is and kind of the imaginal pieces of that, right? I don't want
to ever trigger like episodes of increased delusion or paranoia. It's not an area I feel comfortable
practicing EMDR with. There are some clinician, but that is not something I would even touch until I
was very skilled with EMDR with other populations. I still feel strongly about not doing that. I feel
confident with my EMDR, but that is a population that I would hate to cause any risk or harm that way.
>> RYAN BARTHOLOMEW: Probably just got time for one more before you send us to lunch.
But I think you talked about it a little bit. You were talking about moral injury. Is that something. You
see a lot of EMDR with that kind of thing. I think people just wanting general thoughts on that a little bit.
>> MEGAN BOARDMAN: Honestly, that's one of the places I like to use EMDR the most because of
just the way EMDR is able to build like that positive self-regard and really increase like self-worth. So,
love it for things like moral injury or really working on self-esteem. You can do so much great work.
Especially because they end up realizing and coming to their own conclusion that all of those things
are already inside them, right? They're worthy of love, that they're worthy of like good things. And it's

not someone telling them that. It's them realizing that and coming to terms with that on their own. It
usually makes those moral injuries, like you see them kind of bounce back and recover through those
a lot faster. Great questions, you guys! I really appreciate it. We're going to go to lunch. We'll be back
in an hour and ten minutes. When we come back, we're going to see, we'll talk a little bit about some
different techniques we're going to see. I am going to play like part of a demo for you guys of another
practitioner that she uses eye movements. Totally different style. And I'll talk to you about what's
different in what we're seeing. And then we'll be talking about interweaves when block processing
happens, what we're going to do, and how EMDR targets that. So far I hope today has been useful for
you guys. Appreciate all the interaction you're giving Ryan and Maddie. I hope you have a good lunch.
I'll see you guys back soon.

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PESI-EMDR (Day Two: Morning Session)-(Ai-Live to Z

(USPESI2710A - Ai-Live Premium)

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So, just notice, again, take in the surroundings.

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about we kind of do phase one and phase two together.

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less than if she moves forward.

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>> Probably a one.

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keep an eye out for those.

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her child self.

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>> Like it didn't even matter.

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You had you.

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grades or did any of those other expected roles.

>> Can we check in for a minute?

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>> To fully believe that statement.

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>> Yeah, I like that.

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Let me reshare this for us.

>> Able to embrace each other.

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Just to enhance this future kind of perspective.

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specifically? There's a list of questions that's built up.

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>> MADDIE: Ryan, you froze for a bit.

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