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Mindframe Persuasion Transcript PDF
Mindframe Persuasion Transcript PDF
Seminar Transcript
Created By
Ross Jeffries
founder of Speed Seduction®
Website:
http://www.seduction.com
You alone are responsible for your decisions and actions, even if they have an impact
on others. This information is meant for instructional purposes only.
While this Mindframe Persuasion® seminar transcript contains information, tips, tools,
and strategies that are recommended by us and, in most cases, have succeeded when
applied by others, this product and its contents carry no warranty or guarantee (either
explicit or implied) that the purchaser or reader will achieve success with business, or in
any other endeavor for which they may be used.
Table of Contents
Chapter 1 Intro to Mindframe Persuasion®............................................................................................ 1
Chapter 13 Four Methods for Establishing Authority (Drill Exercise) ................................................. 116
Workshops.......................................................................................................................................... 178
Darren................................................................................................................................................. 179
Paul..................................................................................................................................................... 267
Chapter 1: Intro to Mindframe Persuasion®
Ross: What do you sell? You never sell a product. You always sell wants
and needs, and most importantly, trust and decisions.
People‟s decisions and the emotions that they‟re based on are such
that they tend to waver. Are you going to make people do things
against their will? Most people don‟t have a will.
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They condition the person on how they should feel about making
the decision. They manage the person‟s investment in the decision-
making process such that when the person looks back on the
decision and feels, “Oh, my god, this was my idea! I‟m so glad I did
it.”
What if, rather than people interpreting what you do as trying to sell
them, they viewed that the very activity of listening to you or
reading your sales letter was, in and of itself, a very valuable,
worthwhile activity being conducted as part of a shared, high value
experience being led by a trusted authority and friend? Wouldn‟t
that be pretty cool?
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Participant: Trust.
Participant: Openness.
Participant: Excitement.
Participant: Inspiration.
Participant: Believability.
Participant: Curiosity.
Participant: Interest.
Participant: I can‟t think of a single word for it, but they need to feel good about
telling their friends and family. If someone is buying something,
they‟ve got to feel confident that they can tell people.
Ross: I would not say that that‟s the initial filter you want.
Let‟s make a clear distinction with basic needs that people want
fulfilled. People want more money, sex, status and popularity.
That‟s all great to aim at within the body of your presentation, but in
the beginning, that‟s not what you want in their mind.
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Ross: That‟s good. They‟re looking at you as an expert in their world.
We‟re going to get to that. I want to suggest something else.
Here‟s the challenge. It used to be that all you had to do was make
a really good presentation where you convinced people that you
were correct, that the benefit of your product outweighed the cost,
that they should get it, and make a good offer. You still have to do
that, but it‟s not enough.
The other problem people have is that they‟re on overload. With the
economy being in the toilet, you have to run twice as fast to get half
as far, so people are on overload. People are stressed.
People don‟t trust. There are different ways that people don‟t trust.
First, they don‟t trust that you‟re someone worth listening to. The
second way that mistrust manifests is that they don‟t trust that you
happen to have the answer to their particular challenge. Then they
don‟t trust that anyone has an answer to that area of life.
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They may say, “This is just the way it is. No one can solve this
problem. You just can‟t learn to charm women intentionally. You
can‟t make money. You can‟t look younger.”
The final, and most insidious way, in which people don‟t trust is that
even if they trust that you have an answer, you‟re going to deliver
that answer, and that there is an answer, they may just think that it
can‟t work for them. They may not trust their own ability to make it
work.
Whenever you hear the words, “that‟s just” or “it‟s just,” be on alert
because people are about to give you a mind virus. They‟re about
to excuse or make a justification for their stuckness. You‟ll hear
things like, “It‟s just the way I am,” “It‟s just not the way I am,”
“That‟s just me,” or, “It‟s just not me.
Participant: Yes.
Participant: Yes.
Ross: The other one I really can‟t stand is really big if you‟re selling
something. “It‟s too good to be true.” Think about that. Parse that
out. When someone says, “It‟s too good to be true,” aren‟t they
really saying that the only thing that‟s real is limitation and lack?
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Participant: I wouldn‟t be so sure that‟s right. Some things are too good to be
true.
Ross: Really?
Participant: If I had a time machine, I could take you back in the past, and you
could see your dead grandma. That‟s an extreme example, like
“The Twilight Zone.”
Ross: Within the realm of physical law, when it comes to getting other
people to do things that they are physically capable of doing, it‟s
very unlikely.
The final thing is that nowadays, people don‟t trust any kind of
institution or authority. Think about it. Not this year, but the year
before, just before I filed my income taxes, my accountant said,
“Open an IRA or SEP IRA, and you can deduct it from your taxes.
You have until April 15.”
He said, “I‟ve got something from a company called AIG.” I‟m not
making this up. I swear this is true. I said, “AIG? Who are they? Tell
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me about them.” He said, “They have assets like you wouldn‟t
believe.” I probably shouldn‟t have believed it.
Think about this. Our most trusted institutions have melted. People
don‟t believe anything.
Remember the old phrase, “Don‟t worry about it. You can take that
to the bank”? Listen to metaphors. The metaphors that are
common in your society are something you can really tap into, if
they‟re still true. If they‟re not true, you‟d better not tap into them.
“You can take that to the bank.” “He laughs all the way to the bank.”
The only ones laughing all the way to the bank are the executives
who are taking those fat bonuses and our tax dollars to keep their
banks running.
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Chapter 2: Willing Suspension of Disbelief
Adam: It‟s like when you‟re watching a sitcom, and they do weird things,
like Steve Urkel has a machine that turns him into Steve Urkel.
You‟re supposed to believe it like it‟s true.
When you‟re in love, don‟t you think that your partner is the most
attractive person in the whole world, and everything they do is
wonderful? You think you‟re going to be together forever, and it was
meant to be.
Every person who has ever been divorced and devastated believed
that at one time. I‟m not attacking the institution of matrimony. Love
is an example of a willing suspension of disbelief. You take your
critical faculty and throw it on the bedroom floor.
Have you ever known someone who was in love with a real loser?
You try to tell that person, “What are you doing with that other
person? Can‟t you see that they‟re unemployed?” What kinds of
things do you hear?
Ross: “You don‟t really know them the way I know them.”
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How many people here have ever believed the promises of a
politician?
Have you ever seen the old Charlie Brown cartoons where Lucy
would hold the football? Every time Charlie Brown went to kick the
football, she would pull it away, and he would fall on his ass, but
Charlie Brown always believed it when Lucy promised, “No, I won‟t
do it this time.” He always believed, “Yes, I can believe that she‟s
being honest this time.”
If you‟ve ever voted for a politician and really believed that they
were going to change the world, it was a willing suspension of
disbelief.
How many people have ever been to the movies? The willing
suspension of disbelief there is that when the movie starts, you
have to suspend your knowledge that you‟re sitting in a theater.
You have to forget that there are people surrounding you, that there
are four walls and that you‟re in a room shared with other people.
You need to hallucinate that all away to believe the presentation
that you‟re watching completely.
Did anybody catch that ambiguity? Did anyone not catch it? Not
consciously.
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commands and embedded suggestions. That will be part of the
training.
What if you could, on some level if not completely, get your client,
prospect or subject to willingly suspend their disbelief and enter into
a childlike state of wanting to be convinced and believe what you
have to say? Would it not be advantageous to then have them view
or listen to the presentation or read your sales letters through that
filter?
Furthermore, what if you could change the meaning they gave to it,
rather than meaning they‟re being sold? This, in itself, is a valuable
act. Listening to this talk in itself is a value, regardless of whether or
not you buy what it is that I‟m selling. I‟m leaning on it there. Would
that be useful?
You want them to run through the chain of emotions that you would
like them to experience your presentation through. Periodically,
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from time to time, you want to return to those things, so you
reinforce them.
If I‟m going very fast, it‟s part of how I teach in the beginning to
overload and really excite your imaginations. As you find that
happening, you can recognize, “Wait a minute. That‟s the process
of getting excited about something you‟re learning of fantastic
value.”
Again, did I say what the fantastic value is? No. You have to come
up with it on your own. One thing you‟ll notice is that when I offer a
suggestion, I do a slight head nod. For those of you who are selling
things in person, you‟ll want to teach your staff to do that little head
nod. I‟m exaggerating so you can see it.
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This happens to be far more effective than this. When you do this,
you‟re actually locking in to the mirror neurons of the other person.
Typically if they‟re in any way open, you‟ll see that nod back. It‟s the
unconscious nod. It‟s a micro-expression of a nod.
Have you ever heard this thing about the „Yes Ladder‟? Who here
has taken a traditional sales training? Have you ever heard about
the Yes Ladder?
Participant: Yes.
Participant: Yes.
Ross: The „Yes Ladder‟. The „Yes Ladder‟ has been done to pieces.
However if you do this and get people unconsciously nodding with
you, it‟s an internal „Yes Ladder‟ that they‟re not even aware is
going on.
Participant: Absolutely.
Ross: Of course it is. I want you all to promise. Raise your hand and say,
“I promise not to misuse these techniques to get people to be my
mind slave and send me tons of money.”
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Participant: I promise not to misuse these techniques to get people to be my
mind slave and send me tons of money.
There are little things I will show you throughout. This is a really key
thing. I‟m going to diagram something. I want you to really get this
distinction. This is key, not just in terms of business but in personal
relationships. In personal relationships, this is incredibly powerful
and really key. I‟m giving you things that are like nuclear weapons
in your arsenal, so use them with discretion, but use them.
When you get this concept, it will open up an entire world of power
for you, and I‟m not joking. I‟m being completely down to the
ground, non-exaggerating. I‟m not going to do any jokes or funny
lines here because this is serious. When you get this next
distinction, it will open up a world for you. Here‟s the distinction.
People who have mastery with persuasion can not only engender
these emotional states and get people to look at them through
these emotional filters, but they can manage how the prospect
interprets these emotions states, what actions they should take
from them, and the meaning that they give feeling those emotions.
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Just because you‟re getting someone to feel certain emotions and
be in a certain emotional state doesn‟t mean that they will interpret
it in such a way that they take the actions you want them to take.
Sometimes they will, and sometimes they won‟t.
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Chapter 3: Meta-states and Fractionation
Here, I do want you to take notes. I want you to write down the
word, “meta-state.” I‟m going to teach you two concepts right now.
I‟m going to teach you meta-states and fractionation. If you
understand these concepts, your ability to persuade people into
action will be very nearly effortless and extraordinary.
Master persuaders do this stuff but often don‟t know that they‟re
doing it. Many people do these things unconsciously when they‟re
really good. I want to unpack it and put it under your conscious
control so you understand what you are doing.
When you do this, you will get so good that not only can you
persuade people, but you will see the milestones throughout the
persuasion. You will see the process working, so you can track
what‟s going on. You will know, “Here‟s where they‟re at. Here‟s
what I need to do next.” The sales will fall off your eyes. You will
see the matrix. I promise you.
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I‟m being completely serious. By the end of this weekend, if you
follow my directions and do as I say—I‟m stepping on it—you will
be able to do this stuff. It‟s really cool.
I‟m willing to bet that that primary state of feeling joyous didn‟t
particularly last that long, or it wasn‟t actually a clean state of joy.
I‟m willing to bet that from time to time, you experienced gratitude
about your joy or fulfillment.
From time to time, you popped out of the primary state of joy and
reflected on it in some way. Maybe you reflected on it in the
following fashion. “Wow, I sure hope this lasts longer. I sure hope
this lasts all day.” Maybe you reflected on it from some doubt. “I
wonder how long this is going to last.” Is this correct? Is this
matching your experience?
Maybe you‟ve been really angry. You were really pumped up. Have
you ever done something stupid in traffic, like road rage? The next
day, you thought, “Oh, my god, why did I do that?” You reflected on
it from a different perspective.
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People are constantly popping in and out of a primary state. A
primary state is a state that has a lot of emotional charge. You feel
it in your body. When you‟re really angry and shaking with rage,
that‟s a primary state, or when you‟re really attracted to someone.
Your job is not just to create the primary state but to control what
type of meta-state they get into when they reflect on the primary
state. Do they reflect on their primary emotions of excitement,
wanting to act now and desire with skepticism and doubt or a state
of enthusiasm about their excitement and believing in their
excitement?
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time they went down, they would go down just a little bit deeper.
They could feel themselves going just a little bit deeper down into
the state because every time you bring them up and put them back
down, they would go in with a bit more comfort, ability and ease.
I‟ll tell you this phenomenon. A woman is really into a guy. She falls
in love with him. It‟s very unlikely that she‟s going to continue to feel
that love. She will pop out and say, “Is he really the one? I wonder if
I‟m really ready for a relationship. What do my girlfriends think?”
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If you don‟t fractionate a woman, she will fractionate herself
because unconsciously, she knows that that is how she increases
the good feelings.
Many of your prospects will behave the same way. They will take
their good feeling about what they‟re reading or listening to and
push it away because unconsciously, they know that that‟s the way
to feel even better about it. About half the people will do this, and
you need to learn to recognize that because then you can manage
it.
Ross: There are several different levels upon which you can fractionate
people. One way you can fractionate, and should fractionate, is
going back and forth between being vague and being specific
because the mind really likes that. One clue when you persuade is
that you should almost always start by being vague then move to
the specific.
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For example, I say, “When you feel a great deal of trust for
someone and find your mind opening in a way where you get really
curious, speaking to you as someone who loves to learn, I just want
to let you know that this weekend, I‟m going to be covering six
different topics, every one of which I think you‟ll find interesting for
your own reasons. Here are the topics I‟m going to be covering.”
If I then list the topics and tell you what they are specifically, and
end it all by saying, “Now, isn‟t it interesting how you can find your
own reasons to get really excited about that?” what did I just do?
There is one caveat. Listen up. When you go to the close, the
call to action, you have to go specific. You can‟t say, “As you
find yourself deciding how you want to order, I‟ll be waiting for you
to do that.” You have to tell them, “Pick up the phone. Dial this.”
I‟m going to make this very clear. Even though I‟m introducing the
tools in a certain order, it does not mean that the tools are used in
any particular chronological order.
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Chapter 4: Mindframe Persuasion® Tools
Ross: What if I walked up to you and said, “What I‟m about to do is not a
sale. Rather, I would like you to look at me as a trusted guide
leading you on a journey of discovery so you will believe that what
I‟m saying is true”?
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Participant: Yes.
Ross: Have you ever heard a woman say to you, “It‟s going to be an early
evening”? What is she implying?
Participant: No sex.
Ross: Or she may be implying, “Let‟s get it over with quickly because I
need to get some sleep.” That‟s my interpretation.
Ross: You can imply nonverbal things, but we‟re talking about verbal
things.
Participant: A relationship.
Ross: A shared activity, not something that I‟m doing to you or trying to
get you to do.
Scott: When your lady friend tells you, “Don‟t you think the garbage
smells?” she‟s actually telling you to take out the garbage.
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Ross: If I say, “Why don‟t we join together in this exploration of what
persuasion can do for you in a way where you feel great about it,”
what am I implying about the relationship between us?
Let‟s look at these. “Follow along,” “tag along,” “Join along,” “come
along,” “join in,” “join with me.”
“Warning: Don‟t flick that switch until you learn how your lights may
be destroying your mind, scrambling your brains, and destroying
your health. Dear friend who‟s concerned with your health and the
health of those you love. The story of how your lighting may be the
most dangerous thing in your environment is an interesting one that
many people would really like to hear. Follow along as I uncover
the shocking secrets of _____.”
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I‟m just spinning this off the top of my head without even writing
anything. I say, “follow along” or “read along.” This is really clever.
I‟ve never even met you. You‟re sitting there 10,000 miles away.
You‟re going along, and the sales letter says, “Read along,” or “Tag
along as I uncover the shocking secret of _____.”
Participant: No.
Ross: Look at this phrase, “follow along.” What does “follow along” imply?
There are several implications. First, if you follow, who‟s the leader
and who‟s the person being led? If I say, “follow along,” and you
buy into that, who‟s the one with the power?
Ross: That‟s right, but I don‟t say it. Generally speaking, if you‟re the
follower, do followers question what the leader says?
Participant: No.
Ross: Can you be a follower and look at the leader through a filter of
disbelief and skepticism and thinking, “I don‟t believe a word he
says”?
Look at this one. This one is really sick in a good way. “Tag along.”
If I say, “Tag along as I explain to you the true secrets of how your
health is being jeopardized by _____,” what is the emotional
connotation of tagging along? How old are you if you‟re tagging
along?
Participant: Twelve.
Participant: Young.
I‟m not saying that it‟s going to be something really powerful. It‟s a
subtle thing. But if you repeat these suggestions occasionally in a
chain of suggestions, each suggestion builds on the other one.
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saying “tag along” the person is going to go into a deep trance and
age regress, although they might.
“Join along,” “follow along,” “read along,” “join in,” “come along.” In
your presentations and sales letters, begin very early on, within the
first paragraph, to use this languaging, and you‟ll see a marked
improvement in what you do.
Ross: First, I encourage you to discover in the world how people will
actually respond rather than speculating about it. Give yourself
permission to see it in the world, and let the world and actual
experience inform you what works.
Second, it‟s a very subtle thing. It‟s not something you‟re going to
lean on. If you‟re concerned, and I understand the concern, then
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just say “join along,” “come along,” “join in,” or “follow along.” If the
word “tag” bothers you, don‟t use it.
Ross: The headline or the initial part of the presentation captures their
attention. You‟ve got to start with some kind of headline that really
gets their attention.
These verbs, if you use them, imply that you are engaging in a
valuable activity with them and set the frame or meaning that
they‟re not being sold. These are words like “discover,” “uncover,”
“explore,” or “learn.”
These are similar to verbs. You just change how they look. If I say,
“I‟m going to share a discovery,” “discovery” is a word that has a
positive emotional charge to it as opposed to a sale. “Secret” is
overused, but “secret” still has a good emotional charge.
“Breakthrough” has a strong emotional charge.
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“Journey.” “As we continue in this journey of discovery about just
what makes you a powerful persuader as you follow these
principles, I‟m not sure exactly what questions will come to your
mind as part of the process is getting involved in your own learning,
but as that‟s happening, I want you to know that I encourage that,
so feel free to ask questions.”
Participant: Exploration.
Participant: Yes.
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Chapter 5 Parsing Vague Language
Let me show you some examples. In fact, let‟s read them together.
Ross: Let‟s parse that out. “I think we will really enjoy.” I think we will
really enjoy what? Am I saying what we will really enjoy?
Participant: No.
Participant: No.
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People will not accept that you‟re an authority on where they
should go or what they should do unless they first accept that
you‟re an authority or expert on where they are at.
If you can gain this ability, your personal relationships will improve,
as well as your business. The ability to see and understand where
the other person is at without having to go there for yourself is a
profoundly powerful ability.
So, here‟s the rule. If you want a person or persons to accept that
you‟re an authority on where they should go, you must first
demonstrate or convince them that you‟re an authority on where
they are at.
These are the things that when you study your market, you have to
ask yourself. “What are those? Who is my ideal market?” If you‟re
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doing a negotiation, your market is the person you‟re negotiating
with. You really have to ask those questions of yourself first and
foremost.
By the way, a big thing for you is for you to get clear on who your
best customer is. Who is your ideal customer? I‟m not asking that
now, but I mean in terms of getting actual numbers, getting
demographics so you can measure and map out, “This person, of
this gender, this age, and this income is my ideal customer.” That‟s
who you want to aim at.
Ross: I know something that they don‟t, and what I‟m doing is not selling
but another “S” word: sharing. Does that word have powerful
emotional implications?
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By the way, you notice I‟m sliding it in through so much vague
language that people don‟t have time to stop and say, “Sharing?
Wait a minute. This isn‟t a share. It‟s a sale.” I‟m surrounding it by
so much more vague language they don‟t have time to get critical
or skeptical about it. It slides right in.
You just got it. The light just went on powerfully in your mind. Didn‟t
it?
I‟m not saying, “Today I‟m sharing discoveries,” am I? I‟m saying, “It
really excites me to be sharing discoveries.” What I‟m distracting
your attention to is how excited I am. Because you‟re paying
attention to that, the part saying that I‟m sharing with you slides
right past your critical resistance.
Ross: You fill in the blanks in a way that makes sense for you.
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“I just want to let you know.” Who? It‟s not about what I‟m about to
tell you, it‟s about “I want to let you know.” It‟s a matter of fact. That
implies that what I‟m about to tell you is a fact that you do not
question.
“I just want to let you know.” Let you know what? Let you know
how? “Let you know when? I just want to let you know.”
I skipped to a new one. Let me go back to the second one. “It really
excites me to be sharing discoveries that radically transform lives
for the better.” Whose lives? How? In what way?
Participants: Yes.
Ross: Unless, of course, you‟re Cher and your daughter just said she‟s
transforming into a guy. That‟s a different thing.
“Radically transform lives for the better.” In what way will the lives
be better? Did I say?
Participants: No.
Ross: “So I thank you.” I thank you. I‟m showing gratitude toward you. Are
you going to resist that?
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Participants: No.
Ross: Please give me the verbal feedback. Really, it helps me. It really
feeds me.
So if I thank you, wow, you must be doing something great for me!
Right? That then gives you an image to live up to. I‟m thanking you.
That means you‟re a great person who does great things for me.
Does a great person who does great things for me turn me down or
resist me? Yes or no?
Participants: No.
Ross: As soon as you buy into that, now I‟ve really got you. This is all in
the space of a few words.
“I thank for allowing me.” Allowing me. What does that mean when
you allow something?
Participants: Permission.
Ross: If I say, “I want you to listen to what I say and believe me,” as
opposed to, “I just invite you to allow yourself to find your own
reasons to discover how good it is to appreciate the value of this
information.”
Participant: It gives the illusion of the other person feeling like they‟re in charge.
Ross: I‟m not negating my authority. I‟m negating any resistance to that
authority.
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“For allowing me.” Once you buy into the fact that you‟ve allowed
me, that means you no longer resist me. Correct?
Participants: Yes.
Ross: It‟s dissipating any resistance, and it‟s giving the illusion that you‟re
the one in power, not me, so you relax and don‟t resist. Don‟t you?
Participants: Yes.
Ross: “To uncover this for you.” I‟m not trying to convince you of anything.
I am uncovering something of no value?
Participants: No.
Participant: Discovery.
Ross: “Uncover,” first of all, implies that you didn‟t know it. Now I‟m
informing you, which is a valuable activity. Generally speaking,
“uncover” means you‟re uncovering something of value, unless
you‟re Bernie Madoff.
Participants: Yes.
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Ross: Sounds funny to you in what way? It‟s just being polite.
Ross: If it was the only thing I said and it wasn‟t part of a chain of
suggestions, you would be correct.
You could also say this at the close of the presentation. “In
conclusion, I want to thank you for allowing me to uncover this
opportunity that I know you‟ll feel good about acting on right now.”
Do you get it?
Participant: It also makes sense to thank you in that another implication, “It
really excites me to be sharing discoveries.” On a certain level,
you‟re telling them to be sharing, and then later on in the sense
you‟re thanking them that they‟re going to share.
Ross: I don‟t get that interpretation at all. I am sharing the discovery with
them.
Participant: I get that, and yet on an embedded command level, “be sharing
discoveries,” some part of them is going to be sharing with you.
Ross: Not in this context. I‟m not around for them to share. They‟re
reading a sales letter. That‟s not an embedded command, but good
catch.
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Let‟s look at the third example. “Before we begin this journey into
the world of persuasion mastery.”
“Begin,” and we‟ll get into this a little later, is what we call a
presupposition of time, and so is “before.” “Before we begin this
journey” implies that the journey is going to take place.
Ross: It‟s an implied value now. “Before we begin this journey into the
world of persuasion mastery, I just want to let you know that it‟s
important to ask questions that naturally arise when you embark on
something new and exciting.” What‟s the presupposition there?
That it‟s going to be new and exciting. Right?
Participant: I don‟t know what you‟re saying, but I know that you‟re saying
something important, learning in ways that we haven‟t yet
discovered.
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“I just want to let you know that it‟s important to ask the questions
that naturally arise when you embark on something new and
exciting.” Get it?
Participants: Yes.
Ross: Let‟s go to the next page. We‟re talking about being vague, using
vague language. I draw your attention to the fact that in those last
examples, I didn‟t say one specific thing.
I seldom give hard-and-fast rules, but I‟m going to give you a rule
here. Generally speaking, whenever possible, begin your
presentation, sales piece, whatever it is, with nonspecific, vague
language.
That starts the process of opening the imagination and the more
suggestible aspects of the other person‟s consciousness.
The idea is that you want to use language that captures and leads
the imagination and the emotions of people. The general rule is that
when you use any specific information that you can put on a chart,
graph, prospectus, syllabus or curriculum vitae, it will go into the left
brain.
Here‟s the thing about the left brain. I‟m speaking very non-
rigorously, without any kind of scientific rigor. Generally speaking,
the left brain is going to process things critically. If you use specific
language, which the left brain also processes, you‟re going to
activate the same part of the brain that processes critically.
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Whenever possible, avoid specific language. You can‟t do it all the
time. For example, if you‟re writing a sales letter and describing the
benefits of it, you have to get specific. When you describe the offer,
exactly what they‟re going to get, how they‟re going to get it, and
how they‟re going to pay for it, you have to be specific.
The problem with your presentations is that they‟re loaded with all
sorts of specific information that don‟t address any emotional
needs. It doesn‟t activate the imagination of the other party.
“It comes from the Dead Sea. The Dead Sea minerals are 50%
more…,” is completely getting in the way of the presentation. If we
went through it and I crossed out all the stuff you could eliminate,
your sales would double. That doesn‟t seem true to you at the
moment, but I invite you to discover the ways in which you can
open your mind to seeing that maybe it‟s true.
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Chapter 6 Stories and the Unconscious Mind
Vanessa: I was wondering if stories fall into vague things or specific things,
and what part of the brain…?
Ross: Stories are really good. Thank you. My beloved genius niece
brought up a really good point. Use stories or anything that
sounds like a story. When I say, “Follow along as I tell you the
story of how this important discovery came to be,” or if I say, “Once
upon a time,” what part of your mind activates?
Ross: That‟s right. It doesn‟t matter now what the content of that story is.
The unconscious mind recognizes form and process, not content.
As long as I present it as a story, your unconscious mind will open
up, be childlike, and absorb and listen, rather than be critical.
Participant: Can you repeat that last point about the subconscious mind?
It‟s the same thing with a movie. When you step into the movie
theater, they darken all the lights and stop the previews, and it‟s
time for the show, it doesn‟t matter what the content of that movie
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is. You‟re still going to willingly suspend your disbelief in order to
watch it.
Use something that sounds like a story, like “Follow along,” “Tag
along as I uncover the story of how this came to be,” or “As I tell the
story.”
Generally speaking, “tell the story” works better than “tell you the
story.” With “tell you the story,” people will say “Tell me a story? I‟ll
tell you a story,” but when you say “tell the story,” they‟ll say, “Sure,
tell.” It‟s a trance, so that‟s one case where that little word can
make all the difference.
When you say, “Follow along as I share the story,” or “as I tell the
story,” works a hell of a lot better than saying, “Follow along as I
share with you,” or “as I tell you the story.”
“Follow along as I share the story.” When you say “share the story,”
it‟s being vague. Share the story with whom? By leaving out who
you‟re sharing it with, their unconscious says, “He‟s sharing it with
me. It‟s a story. Listen.” Is that fair?
Participant: Yes.
Ross: It‟s fair because people need to buy the products. This is one of the
by-products of learning this information. This is called phonetic
ambiguity. It‟s one of the things I‟ve caught a lot of flak for in the
seduction world, but it does work as part of a chain of suggestions.
Participant: The structure that you get for letters, can some of them work in a
sentence?
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Participant: Can I use “allow yourself” when I talk to somebody in a
conversation?
Ross: When you talk to someone, you can use some of this stuff.
Ross: You could say something like this. You have a company that sells
minerals, hand care, skin care and other stuff from the Dead Sea.
Is that something of an accurate way, a shorthand way to describe
it here? They sell it from carts. Do you ever have the girls come up
to you and say, “Sir, would you like to try a fresh, free sample?”
This is a suck-ass way to do it. I‟ll teach you a much better way to
do it. I‟m just being blunt. Suck-ass builds a metaphor in your mind
as opposed to, “It‟s not that good.” Sometimes using those
metaphors punches through. I want to make you money. I will
double your sales this weekend.
Here‟s how you can use it. Once you get them locked in a little bit,
you could say, “It‟s an interesting story where these products come
from,” not “Let me tell you the story,” and then just start talking.
Your salespeople will work less and sell more. You won‟t have the
morale problem that you have with people quitting a lot. It‟s going to
solve everything in one fell swoop.
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Participant: I‟m going back to what you were saying about fractionation. In
terms of the minds of women or even business prospects, you were
saying how sometimes people will go back out and say, “I don‟t
know if I‟m supposed to be experiencing this.” Are you saying that
in a way that is working to your advantage? That could also be a
meta-state.
Ross: He said, “Can that fractionation process work in your favor because
what if they fractionate in a way that causes them to be even more
strongly involved when they go back to it?”
Participant: It could also be a meta-state for someone to step out and say, “Is
this going too fast, or am I really doing this?”
Ross: That‟s exactly correct. When it comes to money, that often will
happen, so you need to control that. That‟s a brilliant question.
Participant: If I may use your example, with all due respect, why would
somebody want to know a story about how the minerals came
about? Why should they listen to you?
Ross: That‟s not a question. We‟re not putting him on a hot seat. We can
get to that tomorrow.
Vague language allows you to have a lot of fun with people. One
thing you can fractionate is going back and forth between being
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vague and being specific. When you do that, it creates a powerful
trance because when you‟re being vague, people are in their
imaginations.
Nick: I‟m a little unclear on where the suggestive meaning for the person
is when they re-enter a state.
Participant: I don‟t mean to backtrack, but you put a lot of emphasis on the
willing suspension of disbelief. It seems like that‟s a “go” state, a
pressed-in state to start the sales pitch. What are some calibration
cues to know when the prospect is in the willingly suspended state
of disbelief?
Ross: Obviously if you‟re writing a letter, then you can‟t observe them.
You don‟t know. You‟re talking about face-to-face?
Ross: Overall, I would say to look at the focus of their attention. Are they
shifting around? Are they looking at you? Do their pupils dilate?
Their lower lip gets a little bit bigger. They get what I call the “doggy
dinner bowl” look.
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Are you familiar with the Speed Seduction® stuff? This is what I call
the “doggy dinner bowl” look. One or two things may happen. The
amount they fidget decreases, or the amount they fidget increases.
You‟ll see a change in the baseline. You don‟t know which it will be.
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Chapter 7 Trance and Weasel Phrases
These next ones are wicked. I call them “trance phrases.” By that I
mean that the use of them tends to install, deepen or increase a
trance.
“Find yourself.” What does it mean to find yourself? Did you ever
just find yourself suddenly looking in the refrigerator? Before you
know it, you think, “Wait a minute. I don‟t even know what I‟m
looking for. What am I doing?” Did you ever have that happen to
you?
Do you ever find yourself humming a tune in your head and it just
won‟t go away? Do you ever find yourself suddenly experiencing a
state of total suggestibility or being really attracted to someone?
What does “find yourself” imply? First of all, what does find yourself
imply the absence of? If you‟re finding yourself doing something,
what does it imply that you did not do? You didn‟t consciously
choose it. Isn‟t that basically a huge component of a compulsion or
habit?
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How many smokers actually think, “Now I‟m going to reach for the
pack. I‟m going to unwrap it. I‟m going to take out a cigarette. I‟m
going to put it in my mouth. I‟m going to open up the book of
matches”? It is out-of-conscious awareness.
”Let go and let God.” See that? Do you ever watch these
preachers? You want to see good hypnotists? Watch Sunday
morning TV. “The Bible says… Jesus says.” They‟re pointing to
themselves.
I saw one preacher, he‟s a faith healer. He had a woman come up,
“Reverend so-and-so, I‟m so depressed.” He said, “God takes your
depression and puts it over here. It‟s like you can‟t even see it
anymore when you believe in the Holy Spirit.” He took her visual
image of being depressed, grabbed it, put it over here, stomped on
it and then said, “It‟s like you can‟t see it.”
I knew a lawyer who used to do that. He‟d put his hand in their face
and wave the image away. This is part of what I said. People‟s
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imagery is projected outward subjectively. If you know this, you can
grab hold of it and move it.
I do this with women. I should bring some footage. I‟ll ask a woman,
“When you‟re really excited and attracted by a guy, what kind of
thoughts do you have?” If she goes like that, then I‟ll mirror exactly
where her eyes went. I‟ll say, “When you have those thoughts,”
then I‟ll just go into that state again and do that later on. She‟ll look
over there and have the same thoughts.
Watch where people move their eyes. You‟ll see where they‟re
putting their imagery. Then you can play with it. You can make it
smaller or bigger or shove it in their face. You can take that image,
grab it, and put it around yourself so they‟re looking at you through
it.
I like this one. If you were to invite yourself to really tune in right
now to what it is I‟m saying in a way where you find yourself being
completely convinced for your own reasons that this is really
important, would that lead you to take action right now? Or would
you feel yourself getting a little bit more excited before you found
yourself taking action?
Johav: Could you be more specific about the way you take the image
physically?
Ross: When we workshop with you, I will. You have to teach your people
to do some of this. They‟ll never get caught, ever. I‟ve done this
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kind of stuff to certified master practitioners of NLP. They never
catch me.
Weasel Phrases
Who are the Speed Seduction® students? Raise your hands. You
know about weasel phrases, right? “If you were to discover yourself
getting really excited about what I‟m presenting, how quickly might
you convince yourself that this opportunity is something you have to
act on right now?”
If I were to say to you, “Open your wallet and give me your money,”
I wouldn‟t use that.
This is wicked. I‟m not sure exactly how quickly you could find
yourself giving yourself permission to convince yourself that this is
worthwhile, but as that‟s happening, you see? What does it mean to
convince yourself?
Let‟s parse this out. If I say, “Convince yourself,” what does that
mean? Do you ever convince yourself something is true?
It‟s like splitting your mind between how much you believe it and
how much you don‟t believe it. Therefore, it‟s creating a hypnotic
dissociation.
Ross: These are called trance phrases because when you use them,
people begin to develop a trance.
Here‟s an example. Guys, this is really good. You must use this. I
command you, Ken, to use this. “As you discover yourself getting
more excited about what I have to say, it‟s not necessary to find
yourself growing truly eager to learn more.” Applause, please!
That‟s really good.
I give you permission and encourage you to steal that word for
word. I invite you to discover yourself stealing it word for word. I
don‟t care. You may steal that.
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For example in this one, you would say, “Discover yourself.” You
would underline it and note “trance phrase.” Next you would put
what effect it has. That‟s the first assignment.
What I‟d like you to do is pick a partner. The two of you are going to
work together on this, and then we‟re going to go through it. The
two people who do the best, I‟m going to take to lunch with me
either tomorrow or Sunday.
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Chapter 8 Parsing More Vague Language
Ross: That‟s the most important thing I can teach you about persuasion
and the International Persuaders Guild forbids me repeating it. For
those of you at home, I had given the assignment to parse through
these phrases, identify the tools being used, and then point out
where the vague language is.
Let‟s start with Paul. From Page 7, tell me what you saw.
Paul: As you discover yourself, “As you” I figure is a process in itself. It‟s
a pacing thing.
Whatever you‟re already doing, you‟re going along with it. “Discover
yourself” is a trance phrase. You can discover some things about
yourself that you may not consciously decide. Something that may
come up to help you make the decision that you might not even
know about.
Ross: No, that‟s not true. I‟m saying it‟s what I have to say.
Paul: “I have to say” could also be an act of God. I feel compelled to say
it. I have to say it.
Ross: No.
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Paul: “It‟s not necessary.” The subconscious mind does not get negation.
Paul: It‟s also finding yourself growing. It‟s an unconscious act. “To learn
more” where learn is a valuable activity. Learn more of what? It also
opens you to possibility.
Ross: Out of 100, I‟ll give you a 70 on that. Who else wants to give it a
swing?
Johav: “Make yourself eager.” You are eager to find what? It‟s
accelerating.
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Ross: You could say, “Eager about what?” but I wouldn‟t say that‟s
accelerating. You guys are still at 70. Not bad though, good effort.
Give him a hand.
“Getting more excited” implies that you are already excited about
what I have to say.
Ross: Excellent.
Alex: “Truly” taps into something you‟re hiding from other people.
Ross: “Truly” taps into something very deep, whether you‟re hiding it from
yourself or another person or just haven‟t yet discovered that you
truly desire to listen.
Ross: It‟s something in the core of who you are. “Truly,” when you put it in
front of something, creates almost a trans-derivational search,
where you‟re going to go deep inside to find that meaning.
“Truly” means really, specially deep in that private place where you
snuggle under the covers and touch yourself in the way mom said
not to.
Elmar: To finish, “to learn more” implies you are already taking part in a
shared, valued activity.
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Ross: That‟s correct. Did you get what he‟s saying there? If I‟m saying,
“You‟re going to grow truly eager to learn more,” it presupposes
that you already are learning. It presupposes also that you‟re
engaged in a valuable activity since you‟re learning.
Elmar: I do have one final thing to add, Ross. The way you phrased the
last part, “It‟s not necessary to find yourself growing truly eager,” is
a process, which you could later use as a filter to come back to and
institute what you call the periodic recursive.
Ross: You‟re really close. I‟m going to give you half credit on that. Let me
explain what I mean.
You‟re saying, “Find yourself truly eager,” “Find that you are truly
eager,” and “Find yourself growing truly eager.”
Ross: It builds it. That‟s right. It‟s growing. I didn‟t say to stop, did I?
Participant: No.
Ross: The implication could very well be, “And it‟s going to keep on going
and going.” Do you see the subtlety in this?
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Participant: Who is he?
Participant: The whole statement itself created filters of anticipation, if you read
the whole thing, and then you see whatever comes after it.
Ross: That‟s right. Explain how. What parts of statement did that? In what
way does it do that? You‟re absolutely correct.
Participant: I read it, and after, I wondered, “What‟s coming next? What is it that
he has to tell me? I have no idea what he‟s talking about, yet I have
this feeling that I‟m waiting for something to come that I‟m really
interested in already.”
Ross: If I put this really early on, you‟re then going to look at rest of my
message through excitement, “Wow! I can‟t wait for the next thing.”
Isn‟t that a hell of a lot better than having you be skeptical,
mistrusting or uncertain?
Participant: Yes.
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Ross: Isn‟t that then going to modify anything else I do because you‟re
going to be looking at it through this filter?
The minute people buy into this, it empowers them to become more
gullible and more suggestible to what it is you have to trick them
into doing. I‟m just teasing on that last part. You get it?
Participant: Yes.
Ross: How did I do that? I‟m using the term “more excited.”
Participant: Amplification.
The “not necessary” word, I don‟t know the best way to describe it,
seems to give the person the illusion of power in that they can say
no, even though they really can‟t say no, based upon the totality of
the sentence.
Ross: I‟m going to tell you something. “It‟s not necessary” and “It‟s not
important” are two of the most powerful hypnotic phrases you can
throw into anything. I use “It‟s not important” or “It‟s not necessary”
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a lot, because it‟s vague on so many levels. Thank you for pointing
it out.
First of all, it‟s not necessary according to whom? It‟s not necessary
for whom? Because it‟s not necessary, therefore you‟re allowed to
do it.
“Bobby, it‟s not necessary for you to clean up your room.” A kid is
going to say, “Okay, then I‟m not.” You understand? Saying it‟s not
necessary gives permission to have the experience. It‟s like saying
to allow yourself. Very good.
Participant: The other thing was that the entire phrase implies that the
relationship between the reader and you is that of teacher and
learner.
Participant: In the context of them wanting to learn, it implies that you‟re going
to be the teacher and that you‟re going to be doing it together in
some way.
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getting this, really big-time. The lights are going on. You‟ve been
born again. Hallelujah!
Notice the distinction. I didn‟t say, “As you discover yourself getting
excited about what I have to say.” I said, “As you discover yourself
getting more excited.” What does that imply? It implies that the
excitement is going to grow and that they will continue to return to
that discovery. “My excitement is growing.”
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Essentially, I‟m saying that the discovery is not just about what I‟m
saying. The discovery is also about the person‟s own process of
excitement. In this sentence, “discover” has not only to do with what
I‟m telling them. The discovery is about his or her own process of
getting excited and feeling good about it.
By using the word “discover” and the word “more,” we set up a loop
where they feel excited and then they say, “I‟m feeling excited. He
said I would. He‟s right, and I feel good about it. Look, I just had
another discovery. I‟m feeling excited. That‟s what he said would
happen. I must be getting it.”
You see what I‟m doing? I‟m training them not just to feel excited
but to have moments of discovery of their excitement. “I just
discovered I‟m excited.” In order to discover you‟re excited, you
can‟t be in the excitement, can you? You have to pop out of it to
look at it.
I‟m going really fast, but I‟m going to say it again. For you to realize
that you‟re excited, for you to realize that you‟re curious, you can‟t
be in the curiosity. In the moment of realization, you have to split
your consciousness and look at the curiosity and say, “I‟m feeling
curious.”
This is setting up that loop. Here‟s what it‟s saying. The more you
discover the value of what I say and the more you discover how
excited you are, the more excited and happy you can get about that
excitement in such a way as it continues to build as you continue to
read, listen or watch. That‟s what you‟re doing.
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in that sentence. I want you to cross out the word “truly” and the
word “growing.”
Now let‟s read it that way. “As you discover yourself getting excited
about what I have to say, it‟s not necessary to find yourself eager to
learn more.” Does it have the same kind of punch? Does it set up to
same kind of loop?
Participants: Yes.
Ross: Are you discovering that the more you enjoy, the more eagerly you
look forward to enjoying even more?
I also call this “Thought Binding.” There‟s a pattern that says “the
more, the more.” This is an implied “the more, the more,” so I‟m
going even further into it.
“The more you listen to what I say, the more you can discover your
excitement at discovering your excitement at what it is I have to
say.” Say what?
Participant: When you said that “learn” is that one powerful word where people
wouldn‟t want to deny learning something, they‟re going to
automatically say yes to it, because saying no to it would be going
against what‟s acceptable.
Ross: Yes. Check this out. This is really sick, in a good way. It‟s also
giving them a self-image to live up to. It‟s presupposing that it‟s not
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a sale. It‟s learning. It‟s presupposing that the more they believe
what I say, the better they are as a learner. The more that they
resist what I say, the worse they are as a learner.
If I said to you, “I just want to let you know that the more you agree
with what I say, the smarter it proves that you are and the better
learner you are…”
Ross: No, you wouldn‟t. You‟d flip me the bird if I said that directly. You
understand what I mean, assuming that you did not know me and
powerfully recognize my genius.
Participant: Right.
Ross: I‟m really astonished at how good you guys are. This either means
I‟m a fantastic teacher, or it means that I‟m an amazing teacher.
Grandma would be proud, wouldn‟t she? Yes, she would.
Participant: “Find yourself growing” just by itself without the “truly eager” is a
positive thing that gets in there. The whole sentence implies
authority because you‟re basically telling them what‟s going to
happen and what‟s going on.
Ross: That‟s true. It‟s implied authority rather than assumed authority.
Look at the difference. Assumed authority is me saying, “Let me tell
you the way it is.”
Participant: At the very end when you say “learn more,” it revalidates the
“getting more excited.”
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Ross: That‟s correct.
Participant: It goes back to that. When you say “getting more excited about,”
that takes it from getting excited and then it fractionates into
“about.” It takes them out of it and puts the thing in there.
Ross: Very good. Did you hear what he said? How can you get excited
about something if you‟re in it? You have to step out of it to get
excited about it. Very good.
Participant: There is a lot of vagueness, but we‟re not going through those right
now, I guess.
Participant: “Discover.” How so? “Getting more excited.” How so? “What he has
to say.” About what? “It‟s not necessary.” Says who? “Find yourself
growing.” How so? “Learn more about.” What? In what way?
“Excited.” In what way? “What I have to say.” About what?
“Growing.” In what way?
I love to teach. It‟s the most fun I can have with my clothes on. You
know what I really love about it? I‟m sitting here tinkering around in
my laboratory of language, saying, “Oh my god, this is great!” I‟m
thinking, “Hello? Does anyone want to see this?” I get to share my
toys with you guys.
Once you get this stuff, you can never go back to not knowing it.
Once you see the Matrix, you can never go back. I‟m completely
serious. I‟m having a profound effect on your consciousness. I get
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to go in and tinker with your minds in such a way that you‟ll never
see the world the same way every again. That‟s pretty cool.
That‟s part of the fun of being an uncle, too, by the way. It‟s what I
do as an uncle.
Ross: I like it. It‟s dialectic. We have thesis, antithesis and synthesis.
Participant: The analysis is just analyzing the basic roles each word plays. We
have weasel phrases like “as you” and “it‟s not necessary.”
Ross: Correct.
Participant: In the synthesis phase, we‟ll come back to what they do.
Ross: Fantastic.
Participant: The states are excitement and eagerness. From getting more
excited and growing truly eager, we have excitedness and
eagerness as states. As came out in the earlier discussion, the
“getting more” and “growing truly” bring process into it. We have a
state/process distinction.
Ross: Let me make sure you all understand what he just said. That‟s
brilliant! I want to explode with joy as I share this, it‟s so exciting to
me.
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Here‟s what he‟s saying. Excited is a state. You‟re feeling excited.
What else would be an example of a state?
Participant: Joy.
Participant: Fear.
Participant: Happiness.
Participant: A little more subtle is “learn more.” It‟s obvious. “Getting more
excited” and “growing,” if you lean on the “get” and the “grow,” you
also get an embedded command, although it‟s not as strong as the
“learn more.”
Ross: I‟m going to disagree there. It‟s splitting hairs and has almost no
effect. That‟s a shadow that reflects no substance, but it‟s smart
thinking nonetheless.
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By the way, it doesn‟t even say when I‟m going to say it, either.
Listen to this. It says, “Getting more excited about what I have to
say.” It doesn‟t tell you when I‟m going to say it, which means you
have to pay attention constantly to make sure you don‟t miss
anything. Notice the difference in the meaning and the sentence.
“As you discover yourself getting more excited about what I have to
say a minute from now, it‟s not necessary to find yourself growing
truly eager to learn more.” That sets the time at one minute and
then you‟re done with it. By not saying when, it makes it an ongoing
process that never stops.
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Chapter 9 Non-Specific Time and Thought Binding
It‟s not merely a description of his past. It‟s an affirmation about the
present and a prediction of the future because it‟s non-specified
through time.
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I‟ve bound people through time here by not saying when I‟m going
to say it. This is useful. Be aware of how, up until this moment, you
had bound yourself through time in ways that were not useful.
Unbind yourself by getting specific.
Getting specific here would take a lot of the power out of the train of
suggestion.
Getting specific with yourself sets you free from your own chains of
suggestion that bind you through time. If you said, “From February
20, 1969 to June 23, 2009, I was not good at math,” that doesn‟t
necessarily say anything about now or the future. It just states a
specific time period.
Participant: Vagueness includes, “What I have to say,” that you just discussed.
It also includes “eager to learn more” because the object of “to
learn” is not explicit.
Ross: Right. I‟m not saying “learning what.” It‟s another way of not
specifying what you‟re going to learn. I‟m not specifying when I‟m
going to say it. I‟m also not specifying when they‟re going to learn it,
which means they have to be constantly alert and open to it or
they‟ll miss.
The sentence doesn‟t read, “As you discover yourself getting more
excited about what I have to say, it‟s not necessary to find yourself
growing truly eager to learn more on paragraph three, line eight,
word five.” It ruins it, doesn‟t it?
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more excited or when I‟m going to say things. By being nonspecific
as to time throughout, they have to apply it all the way through.
Participant: Valuable activity verbs include discover, learn, grow, and find.
Ross: I‟m going to dock you on “grow.” Grow may not be something that
I‟m doing with them. They could be growing while I‟m not growing.
Participant: I‟ll add one more thing to the analysis, which is that “what I have to
say” provides the real axis to the entire sentence. This is where the
value lies. It also provides a bit of mystery, which then provides an
anchor for curiosity.
Ross: Essentially what you‟re saying is the thing that‟s going to create all
of this is my speaking and their listening.
Participant: “What I have to say” is a noun phrase that provides the axis of
value.
Ross: I don‟t know if it‟s a noun phrase, but it‟s where all the value of this
is centered. I‟ll give you that.
Mike: Speaking of all the value in that phrase, “what I have to say” implies
that it‟s important and necessary.
Ross: I didn‟t mean it that way. “What I have to say” is “I have something
to give you,” but it‟s a good ambiguity. I‟m going to give you a point
on that.
He‟s saying, “I have to say it.” That‟s not what I meant. It means, “I
possess something that I‟m going to say.” That‟s a good ambiguity
that I did not spot.
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Participant: I remember from one of your previous seminars. You were talking
about using confusion to jar their mind so that they can then not
focus on what‟s being said, but more of the embedded commands
in the adjectives are being used.
Participant: This was in Speed Seduction®. You were talking about startling
their mind for a second.
Participant: I was wondering because “it‟s not necessary,” in the rhythm of the
whole sentence, you have to really think hard about what it means.
Participant: We also talked about how that‟s kind of a negation. If you say,
“Don‟t think of a blue car.” You automatically think of a blue car.
Ross: In effect, when you say, “It‟s not necessary,” you‟re saying, “It is
necessary.”
Participant: That‟s what the mind automatically gravitates toward. “As you” and
“discover yourself” are cool ones, because in “discover yourself”
three things are going on.
Ross: Everyone, cover up the word “yourself” and read everything else in
the sentence out loud, except for that word.
What if I said, “As you get more excited about what I have to say,
it‟s not necessary to grow truly eager to learn more”? It‟s not as
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powerful, is it? What does it mean to find yourself? Look at the
ambiguity. The ambiguity is yourself or your self.
Ross: No, I wouldn‟t say that. It‟s not implying that they‟re in a state of
confusion.
The really beautiful thing is, if you say this verbally instead of
writing it, they‟ll never remember exactly what you said. This is
what I call process language.
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The conscious mind cannot remember process language. I can
remember it because I have trained my ear, but 99.9% of the
people in the world cannot remember process language. They‟ll
respond to it, but they can‟t remember what you‟ve said.
Participant: When you have a sentence or two like this, packed with process
language, would it be important to, before this chunk of words and
afterward, have something that‟s a little more content-filled and
factual?
Participant: There is a certain point where you don‟t want to continue with
process language.
Ross: Absolutely. You have to be specific at some point to tell them what
the price is, what the offer is, what they‟re going to pay, how they‟re
going to pay, and to pick up the phone now.
Participant: Would you say that after this is when you would start?
Ross: Not necessarily. Yes, at some point after this, but immediately after
this? I don‟t know. It depends on the context. It‟s a good question.
Who did I say got 98? You three are coming to lunch.
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how excited I am at being more excited about discovering it. You
guys should be trembling at some point at how powerful this is.
Page 8. Trance words are words which tend to cause the person to
have an inward focus of attention and to access the imagination
and the more suggestible parts of the mind. I said “tend to.” It
doesn‟t guarantee that they will, but they tend to.
Guys, the eighth one is “wicked.” Please circle it. What are you
going to tell Professor Burns? Am I doing a great job here? Is he in
Brazil yet? No. I love that guy.
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I like to leave this message. I‟d use it if I were dating. I‟ll use it with
anyone. “Hey ____, it‟s Ross. I don‟t know where you‟ll be when
you get this message or what you‟ll be doing when you get this
message. I do know you can remember the fun we had talking and
look forward to talking again. Here‟s my number. Why don‟t you see
if you can catch me?”
“I don‟t know what you‟ll be doing as you get this message.” What
do they have to do? They have to imagine in their mind what
they‟re doing, which creates a hypnotic dissociation. It‟s also a
truism.
“When you‟ll get this message.” they have to think, “It‟s 10:30.”
“What you‟ll be doing as you get this message.” What are they
doing as they get this message? They‟re getting the message. It‟s
another dissociation.
It‟s pacing the reality. It‟s showing that, “I‟m a totally humble guy. I
don‟t know, but I do know that you can remember how much fun we
had talking and look forward to talking again.”
“I‟m not sure,” that‟s a humble guy, right? Can you argue with me
when I say, “I‟m not sure, I don‟t know”? No.
Participant: Is it a word that if you say it before you start a sentence, it will build
more credibility?
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Ross: It will build rapport. People won‟t resist you if you say, “I don‟t
know.” In a sense, you are saying you know.
When I say, “I don‟t know when you‟ll get this message, or what
you‟ll be doing when you get this message, or where you‟ll be when
you get this message,” it‟s saying “I don‟t know.” At the same time,
it‟s saying, “I do know that you‟ll be somewhere, you‟ll be doing
something, and you‟ll get it at a certain time.”
Ross: Exactly. They think, “It feels like he‟s here with me,” which could be
kind of creepy.
Scott: Don‟t you have to be a little bit careful with that, though? You don‟t
want to say, “I don‟t know if this is going to work for you.”
Scott: You use this when you‟re still in the vague stage more than when
you‟re in the specific stage?
Ross: Absolutely. “As you follow along in this exploration today.” Look at
what I‟m stacking right here, “I‟m not sure just which of these
breakthroughs you‟ll find yourself really enjoying and embracing,
but I think as you imagine that, you‟ll feel this is really worthwhile.”
After a while, you get used to talking this way. It starts pouring out
of your mouth. It‟s like talking in tongues.
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“As you sit there listening while you grow more and more curious
about what it is, you‟re already beginning to discover with growing
excitement how fun it is to learn from an expert and master teacher.
I‟m not sure just what it is you can do to show your appreciation.”
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What did I just do with your sense of time? I flipped it all over the
place. I put you here, I put you later, and then I put you back over
there.
The girl is blushing. The girl got it. Why? Because girls do that.
Girls like to think, “Mrs. Ross Jeffries, mm!” Am I lying or am I
telling the truth? Guys, women not only fractionate back and forth
among emotions, they fractionate back and forth through time.
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that‟s happened you can become aware of how grateful you are to
yourself for opening up your mind to me right now.”
“As you naturally discover your own reasons to agree with every
word I say, before you rapidly discover just how much you‟re
enjoying learning with me tonight, are you not? It‟s not necessary to
swiftly conclude for all your own right reasons that there is
something else you still want to learn. As that‟s happening, I just
want to say that‟s the process of growing ever more curious about a
fantastic body of information that you want for yourself.”
Haven‟t you seen some of my sales letters where I‟ll say something
like, “Won‟t it be great after you‟ve picked up the phone and
ordered your course today? Then you can just smile that big smile
of satisfaction, sigh to yourself on the inside, and think, „This is the
greatest decision I‟ve ever made.‟” You think, “No way would
people buy that.” Yes, they do!
If I say, “When you look at someone and you feel really fascinated
as you go inside and find your own reasons to discover you really
want more, just because that‟s happening now doesn‟t mean it‟s
on.” All those were commands. “It‟s on” is a suggestion. The
suggestion tells the person‟s mind how to interpret the fact that
they‟re feeling all of these things.
Remember, I said that I‟m going to train you not only to have
people in the primary state, but how to interpret that state. The
suggestion is a way of telling the unconscious mind that, “Yes, the
fact that these commands are happening means you should either
feel this way about it or take this action toward it.”
Scott: We spent most of the pages before that one suggesting things
without using a command. That page was about actually direct
commands. What‟s the right mixture or the right timing to use both?
Here‟s the way it‟s going to work. Tomorrow we‟re going to start at
10:00. There are four workshop groups, so I‟m going to be able to
give you a lot more time than an hour. We‟ll probably go from 10:00
to 7:00 tomorrow. We‟re not going to go late in to the evening. We‟ll
still have plenty of time to more than cover you. I may take more
people, but we‟ll see.
Your homework assignment is to sit down and write out what your
goals are for mastering this material. However, there is a
distinction. You are not allowed to say, “I want,” or “I‟m going to,” or
“I desire.” You‟re not allowed to use any of those things.
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You can‟t say, “I want to use these tools to achieve $100,000 a
year in income.” You can‟t say, “I‟m going to use these tools,” or “I
desire to use these tools.”
Want and desire imply lack and separation. When you say, “I want
to make a lot of money,” that implies that you and money are
separated. Phrase it differently. We‟ll see how you do that.
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Chapter 10 Fundamental Building Blocks of Reality
One of the things I was talking about was the fundamental building
blocks of our reality, where we construct our normal sense of
identity. When you get up in the morning, how long does it take for
you to recognize that it‟s you who has awakened? How long does it
take for your program that says, “Here I am. I‟m me,” to boot up?
There is a brief moment when you‟re awake but that “I” is not
booted up yet. The whole notion that there is a self in there may
just be a construct we‟ve been taught that isn‟t true.
First of all, the notion that you are a self is something that is not
necessarily inherently there. It has to be taught to you. Part of that
is the very act of naming you. You can‟t name something that‟s a
process. You only name a thing.
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were first learning to read a watch or clock but had yet to get it?
You were just learning to do it.
There came a moment in time when you thought, “I get time. It‟s not
eleventy-one. It‟s 11:01. It‟s not twelvety-thirty. How could it be that
the hands on the 12 and six equals 12:30? It‟s a six, not a 30. I
don‟t get it.” Then there came a moment when you did get it. Once
you got the notion of telling time, you could never go back to not
understanding it.
Along with the notion of time come the notions of before, after and
now. You‟re not born with that as a kid. Infants and toddlers don‟t
inherently understand the notion of a past, present or future.
They‟re totally in the now. That‟s why they crap their pants, among
other things. They think, “It‟s fine. That‟s what I‟m doing now.”
They did some experiments. The book is called Training the Time
Sense, and the guy‟s name is Robert Morgan. You guys, of all
people, should have that book.
One of the things they did in the experiments was train people to go
very deeply into trance. Then they took away their sense of the past
and future. The induction went along the lines of, “As that‟s
happening, you notice that the future and past shrink into nothing,
and the present moment expands to cover everything.”
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When they did this, people lost all moral codes and restraints. They
acted like children and did anything and everything they felt like. If
you take away someone‟s past and future, everything becomes the
present moment. Their moral behavior drops away. I‟m not
suggesting that this is something that you should covertly learn to
do, except on a date it might be fun.
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What‟s another way we learn to measure things? When you were
growing up, did you ever put a line on the wall to see how you were
growing? Of course, I drew my lines with crayon.
I got smacked around a lot, but I deserved it. I didn‟t really get
smacked around a lot. Don‟t write to me and say, “Ross confesses
to being smacked a lot.” I was smacked an appropriate amount.
Then she looked at me with a little gleam in her eye and used my
real name. She said, “Paul, in any other family, you would have
been beaten to death.”
There is no such thing as an inch for real. It‟s a construct, but you
buy into it. That construct enables you to conduct commerce. How
much thread are you going to need for that dress? How much
carpet do you need? Society has to acculturate you into it, and
once it does, you see everything through that filter.
It‟s the same thing with your sense of time and the number zero. I
know someone whose work I respect. He talks about how the Hopi
language has no words for time. At the same time, the Hopi had to
understand time or they couldn‟t have planted their crops. They had
to know the cycles of where the moon was and when to harvest or
plant.
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Think about the notion of zero. What is zero fundamentally? What
does zero enable you to do? The mathematician back there says
“decimal calculations.”
What does debt enable you to do? I‟m not going to argue in favor or
against it, but it enables you to temporarily borrow against future
productivity so you can take risks that other societies can‟t. Often
the risks get us into trouble.
Think about the notion of zero. Many cultures didn‟t have it, but
somewhere, some guy had to think, “Zero! I get it.” Then he taught
other people.
I‟m willing to bet that the structures and circuitry in the brain to
grasp zero were there for 30,000 years before someone came up
with it. Once it did, it changed consciousness. Once you
understand telling time, you can never go back to not getting what a
watch does, unless you‟re really piss-face drunk.
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This is a serious point. In order to throw these constructs off, you
have to really alter your reality. You have to get completely bombed
out of your head to temporarily get rid of these concepts. These
concepts operate on the unconscious level and structure how we
even know that we‟re awake, alive and moving in the world.
My other point is that the circuitry to understand this was there for
probably thousands of years before someone thought of it.
Fire is another one. When we discovered fire and were able to take
it into the cave, what did that enable us to do? We were able to stay
awake longer and not have to go to sleep.
That gave us a lot of spare time to develop art and culture. They
found a 35,000-year-old flute. I read this in the paper three or four
days ago. They said it was part of a culture that danced around the
fire, drank beer and had music.
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unconscious minds on how they reflect on the feelings that you‟re
helping them to create, are as fundamentally transformative to your
consciousness when it comes to persuading as the other ideas.
All the circuitry in your mind to grasp this is already there. You just
have to activate it. That‟s my job as a teacher.
I believe that the circuitry to solve all the problems that we‟re facing
in this world is already there in the human mind. We just have to
learn to activate it and move in that direction.
That‟s my little talk this morning. The other point is that the way in
which people structure their reality is fundamentally subjective. The
operating system that boots up and tells people, “Here I am. I am in
a room. I am me,” is fundamentally subjective anyway. It has been
acculturated in.
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you had no ability to resist. If you don‟t think you‟ve been the
subject of some major life-altering persuasion, you‟re very wrong.
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Chapter 11 Being Artfully Vague and Establishing Authority
Let me give you some specific examples of that. It‟s very important
to do. Here are the different ways you can pace. I want you to take
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notes, but first look at me. Look at me, let me give you the
transmission, and then you can write it word for word, I promise
you.
What I‟d like you to write first is a big thing on the page that says,
“Establishing authority.” By authority, I want to make clear that I
don‟t mean a gun. Sorry, guys. I actually think the world is far too
violent. Part of making you more persuasive is enabling you to get
what you want without being violent or using coercion.
I didn‟t say anything specific, did I? Did you get a sense that, “Wow!
He really understands what I want to learn”?
Any kind of pacing, generally speaking, starts with “as you.” You‟re
making an observation about their ongoing behavior. You can pace
their ongoing behavior.
I would not say, “Yoav, as you stand there and wave your arms
about and listen to the „Star-Spangled Banner‟ while drawing on
your notepad,” because he‟s not doing that. It‟s very easy to do.
You can pace the observable reality that you see the person going
through. That‟s the easiest thing to do.
When I say, “You‟re sitting there,” your response is, “Yes, I am.”
“And you‟re listening to me.” “Yes, I am.” “And you‟re looking at
me.” “Yes, I am.” Forget about the Yes Ladder and establish what I
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call “Yes Momentum.” Yes Momentum is the internal, subjective
experience of the other person saying “yes, yes, yes” in their
mind.
“As you sit there and look at me and listen to what I say, I‟m not
sure how intrigued you find yourself becoming.” Now you start to
suggest something with “how intrigued you find yourself becoming.”
You see the structure of this.
You make three statements about what you see, and the fourth one
is your suggestion. This is a classical hypnotic technique of pacing
people‟s ongoing reality. It‟s very simple.
Participants: Yes.
Ross: When you read them, did you get a sense that I was inside your
reality, describing it to you?
Participants: Yes.
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Ross: I talk about, “Doesn‟t it really suck when you hear, „Let‟s just be
friends?‟ or you have to settle for women that you can accidentally
get, not the ones you really want. I know, good buddy. I‟ve been
there.
“Nina was a girl I pined after. I used to dream of that beautiful ass.
Time and again, she would complain to me about the guy she was
really attracted to. She would always end it by saying, ‟I appreciate
what a great friend you are.‟ Damn, I‟m sure you‟ve been there! I
hate that.”
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frustrations, they will assume you have the answers to those fears,
failures and frustrations.
I‟ll say, “Imagine this. You wake up and there next to you, she‟s still
sleeping, that absolute stunning beauty who just enjoyed a night of
passion with you where she gave everything she had and was
crying out with pleasure. Think of all the things you enjoyed with
her.
You sigh to yourself as you realize this is not the first or the only.
This is just one of many similarly beautiful experiences you‟ve had
over the last six months of mastering this material.”
The other thing you can do is describe the fantasy. Describe their
hopes, dream and desires. You can do it in a truism. “Ladies and
gentlemen of the jury, we all long for a fair world. We long for a
world in which we see justice done.” Point to yourself as you
describe common truisms.
What do most men want? They want control and predictability when
it comes to women. Even if they don‟t want a lot of women, they
want to know that if they want a woman, they can get her without
guesswork.
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One of the fundamental selling points of Speed Seduction®,
whether you believe it or not, is it takes the guesswork and begging
out of it.
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Chapter 12 Metaphors
Then I also say, “But now imagine this,” and I describe what you‟ve
been through. There‟s that beautiful girl, blah, blah, blah. You can
say, “Isn‟t that being specific?” I‟m not too specific. I‟m just
describing a very common male fantasy of being with a beautiful
woman. I‟m not saying what she looked like. I‟m not saying she has
blond hair and blue eyes.
You can do this with wants, hopes and fears. You can also do it
with fears, failures and frustration. Then I add in metaphor. I use
dating is a form of gambling. You instantaneously identify what I
mean.
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Ross: That‟s right. You don‟t know what the outcome will be. You‟re
playing the odds. If you‟re asking how to find the metaphors that will
best describe the fears, failures, frustrations or hopes, dreams,
wishes and fantasies, just look at common language.
Common language will tell you. It‟s rolling the dice. I got lucky. It‟s a
numbers game. Men are already using that metaphor to describe
getting with women. Whether or not you‟re interested in getting with
women is not the point. I‟m using it as an illustration.
I would have your people start out by saying, “Excuse me. You look
like the kind of person who loves to do something really great for
yourself. Come here.” Ask, “When was the last time you really
treated yourself to something? Let me show you something.
“I don‟t know if that‟s for you, but do you like to feel good soaking in
the tub? Do you like to feel good when your face feels clean and
young because you‟ve used something that makes you feel
beautiful no matter who you‟re around and what you‟re doing?”
Then point to the product.
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The five paragraphs and, “This comes from the Dead Sea.” No one
wants to know unless they‟re geologists. You just got your money‟s
worth.
Whether or not you like President Obama, that man knew how to
persuade. His marketing team brought in $950 Million in
contributions over the internet. The champion internet marketer, my
friends, is Barak Obama and his team of people. They knew how to
market on the internet. Those people never even got a shirt or
button. They just gave him the money because they felt like they
were participating in a dream.
Whether or not you agree with President Obama is not the point.
The point is it was brilliant marketing because he knew how to
identify with people‟s hopes and frustrations. He did both. He knew
how to install a sense of hope and how to use metaphor.
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healthcare or the son who can‟t go to college. Everyone in the
audience would agree.
The next thing you do is come up with a metaphor. Sit down and
look at their area of life and think what the common metaphors are.
What are the common metaphors when you think about making a
good decision? What are the common metaphors that the ethnic
group or demographic you‟re addressing use and believe in? That‟s
another way to establish authority in the world of the people you
want to address.
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Brock: It‟s common in sales and copywriting to know you can get people‟s
attention using negative images.
Ross: I‟m going to stop you here. Whenever I hear the word “negative,” I
reach for my gun because I don‟t know what it means. What do you
mean by negative? New Age people, when I point out the flaws and
errors in their philosophy, they say, “You‟re negative.” My idea is,
“No, I‟m clear, and you‟re a fool.” I‟m not saying that to you, but
what do you mean by “negative”?
Brock: Do you want to follow that same pattern throughout the sales letter
you‟re selling on something positive? You might start with negative.
Ross: I can‟t tell you which one you should start with. I can tell you that
you use both. You want to pull people toward something, and you
also want to push them away from something. You need to give
them a kick in the ass and put a ring in their nose. You need to do
both to make sure you cover your bases, particularly if you don‟t
know your audience face to face.
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The question is not which you start with. It depends artistically how
you feel and what the issue is. The point is that you want to use
both.
Participant: When you‟re dealing with authorities, and you want to convince
them that you have the solution to their rhetoric, they‟re the ones
who make the rules. How do they take authority from you when
they have the authority?
Ross: Give me a specific. That‟s too vague. I‟m visualizing something, but
I don‟t know if it‟s what you mean.
Participant: But it‟s rampant throughout the whole thing. Everywhere I read, it
says, “We want this.”
Ross: How does that apply to your own specific persuasion challenge?
Participant: My perspective is that I have the solution for what they are looking
for.
Ross: You have the solution for what they‟re looking for. That‟s a matter of
finding the right people and convincing them.
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Participant: They don‟t want to be convinced.
Participant: Exactly.
I‟m going to show you one more thing. Then we‟re going to break
up. We have time for all the workshop people. Don‟t worry about it.
Participant: Nike.
Ross: That‟s worth a lot because people take the adoration and
admiration they have for Kobe, and they transfer it to the shoe.
Let‟s say you were trying to sell to Evangelical Christians, and you
really could get Jesus Christ to endorse your product. There‟s a
commercial that says, “Hi, I‟m Jesus Christ, and I like this Bible so
much. First of all, I wrote it and every word is true. You can trust
these people. Buy it today.”
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I don‟t mean to offend anybody. I apologize if I have, but think
about it. The orders would fly out the door because you take the
authority and believability of the celebrity, and you glom it onto the
product.
Have you ever watched “Smallville”? I love that show. Clark Kent is
eating Sugar Pops. They take the product and it becomes part of
the background of the show. It slides past resistance. Obviously,
you probably aren‟t going to get Kobe Bryant to endorse your
products, but there are some sneaky tricky ways around it.
There is one guy whose tapes I‟ve been listening to. It‟s not
Shinzen, but somebody else. I notice that when he says a concept
that he thinks is really good, he says, “Mm.” When I meet him, I‟m
going to say, “I have an idea for you. Mm.”
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I‟m going to repeat his thing that lets him know it‟s a good idea. You
can watch to see how the person in authority does his verbal
expression, other than words, that shows he agrees. You just
repeat those back every so often when you‟re addressing the
group.
The other thing you can do is borrow his emblem. What does that
mean? Let‟s say he leaves the room for some reason. Get up and
sit down in his chair. Don‟t sit down in his chair. That‟s a sign of
disrespect. Stand behind his chair and say, “Here‟s what I think.” If
you sit down in his chair, it‟s too aggressive. If you stand behind his
chair, now you‟re in his position of authority.
Juries may not believe the lawyers. Generally speaking, they look
at the judge with high respect. See if the judge has any kind of
small mannerism you can borrow. I‟m borrowing something from
someone‟s work. You don‟t want to do the full mannerism because
you will get caught by the jury or the judge, and he won‟t like it. You
can do a portion of the mannerism, like one-third or one-fourth of it.
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You can use this all the time. I teach this in a seduction way. When
I teach Speed Seduction®, I tell the guys, “Women have what I call
self-anchors.”
Have you ever said to a woman, “Tell me about the first time you
fell in love.” She goes, “Ah!.” What is she doing? She‟s accessing
the feeling flowing in her body that lets her know she‟s in love.
I‟ll just repeat that. Later in the evening, I‟ll say, “I‟m having such a
good time, ah!” I don‟t even have to do the whole thing. I‟ll just do a
part of it, like one-third of it, and she goes into the state.
You also watch for the other person‟s self-anchors, the sounds or
gestures they make when they‟re having a positive emotion, and
you fire it off just before or as you‟re talking about what you want
them to believe.
If you train your salespeople to watch and say, “You look like
someone who really wants to do something wonderful for yourself,”
and they go, “Hm,” that‟s their sign that accesses the feeling.
Ross: Close, but mirroring is bullshit because people will pick it up. Do it
just one-third of what they do. Use one-third or one-half of their
emphasis or volume. Experiment with it. Some people need the full
thing because you really need to wake them up.
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Cognitive Momentum and Emotional Inertia
Here‟s the beauty of it. When they push that button, it engages a
flow of feelings and a train of thought and visualization that takes
on its own momentum.
Ross: I was talking with my friends about how it is possible that people
keep repeating their patterns of behavior when they really do want
to change. Is it that some part of them wants to sabotage? Have
you ever heard this notion, “You‟re sabotaging yourself. A part of
you doesn‟t want this.” That‟s bullshit. It‟s almost always bullshit.
The same train weighs the same amount. Now it‟s going 150 miles
an hour. You have to throw on the brakes a lot harder. Why? It has
been moving and accelerating.
Here‟s the key thing. When people reveal to you those little things,
those little sounds, facial gestures or noises they make will engage
those patterns that have the emotional momentum and cognitive
components that you want, fantasize and desire. It sets in motion a
chain reaction of things. You may have to reinforce it and likely you
do.
Let me give you an example. Does anyone remember the first O.J.
Simpson trial?
Participant: Yes.
Ross: Again, I‟m not saying anything about what‟s right or what‟s wrong.
I‟m simply talking about what is effective. Why do you think Johnny
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Cochran was so effective? Among other reasons, he did something
extremely clever.
Do you know what he did? Some people say, “He played the race
card.” He did, but he also played the race card in a more subtle
way. He played it in an obvious way, and he played it in a subtle
way that nobody caught.
Here‟s what he did. If you can find videos of that trial, it was
televised, right? One of the things you‟ll notice is when Johnnie
Cochran spoke to the jury, not the judge and not when he
interviewed witnesses, he had a different cadence. He also had a
completely different rhythm and posture than when he spoke to the
judge or to others.
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Johnnie Cochran stole, borrowed, or took on the mantle or cloak of
authority of someone who those people had trained themselves or
were trained to deeply trust to tell the truth. Could that be useful?
The metaphor that you buy into will affect what you visualize and
how you visualize it. It will affect what you say to yourself and what
flow of feelings you turn on and turn off. Metaphors are profoundly
powerful. I could spend a day on metaphors.
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You need to look at your own metaphors, too. They will set you
free.
Not only will it make it difficult, it will shut you out from even looking
for that or conceptualizing that something is possible.
I love my girlfriend dearly, but I can‟t stand her music. I tell her,
"You‟re not going to play that in my house. Put on headphones."
She likes to go out drinking at night with her Swedish girlfriends.
The Swedes are interesting. If they‟re going out at 9:00 at night, at
7:30 they start drinking to get ready as they‟re putting on their
makeup and playing their music.
She plays music I hate. There‟s this awful song that my girlfriend
loves. She plays it over and over but I say, "No! Put on headphones
or go in the other room with that shit."
That‟s a primary female fantasy, the guy who never settles down.
He has a lot of women, but somehow through the power of her
love, she tames him and breaks through. He falls in love with her
and only her.
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You‟re listening to this stuff, but talk about brainwashing! It‟s
constantly being bombarded in your head. Almost every song
works through metaphor. Songs don‟t literally describe what
happened. "I met you. We made out. I touched your whatever, then
we humped, and then that was it." No one describes what happens.
Songs use metaphor. We‟re constantly bombarded by metaphor.
Watch the metaphors that you use on yourself. See if you can ferret
out the common metaphors that your demographic or your
subjects, or whoever you‟re going to address, use because if you
use those metaphors and the other side doesn‟t, then they‟re going
to identify with you. Not only that, if the other side starts to try to
use them, then they look like copycats of you. Use the metaphors
first.
Participant: For those who are not English majors, what‟s a good way to
develop the talent of being able to tell metaphors?
Ross: Any time you hear someone singing, “I was commander in chief of
this pimp ship,” you should think, "Is that literally true? Did he have
a pimp ship? Was he commander in chief?" That‟s one way to hear
it‟s not a literal description.
Whenever you hear “like,” you know it‟s a metaphor. "It‟s just like…"
or "Love is like a rose. You can smell it and touch it, but sooner or
later it will shrivel in your hand," or whatever it is. Any time you hear
“X is like Y,” you‟re hearing a metaphor. That‟s one way.
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Stories are metaphors. Politicians use metaphors all the time. “It‟s
a new day in America.” What does that mean? What do you
envision? When that politician says, "It‟s a new day in America,"
what do you envision? It‟s the sun coming up and the start of hope.
No, it‟s not a new day in America, it‟s the same old shit happening
over and over. I‟m sorry to be cynical. I‟m just pointing out what‟s
really going on. But people want you to believe. If you buy into that
metaphor, then everything that you‟re told will slide into that
metaphor or be bounced out if it doesn‟t fit.
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Chapter 13 Four Methods for Establishing Authority (Drill Exercise)
I‟ll tell you a story. I said that you can pace their ongoing,
observable reality, but you can also pull their metaphors out of their
heads. I did it with this gentleman. Did you see his state change
when I said Da Vinci? That was a major knockout hit. I saw Da
Vinci with a picture of the Mona Lisa in my head, so that‟s what I
knew to say. I pulled it out of his head.
A couple of years back, I was hanging out with my friend, Dr. Ken.
Dr. Ken is an Asian lover. He likes Asian girls, so I took him to this
place near UCLA where I knew a lot of Asian girls were studying.
We went to the counter and ordered our food. It‟s the kind of place
where you order food at the counter, then bring it back to your table
when it‟s ready. They call you and you bring it back.
Sitting over at a table I saw a very attractive Asian girl. She turned
out to be Chinese. I thought, "We‟re going to go sit at the table next
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to her." We sat at the table next to her to wait for our food. I was
sitting here, Dr. Ken was facing me, and she was sitting behind me.
I noticed that she had a big, thick book she was studying. It was like
she was talking to herself in her head. We sat down and I winked at
Ken and said, "Watch this." I turned around and said, "Excuse me.
Could you please not think too loudly? You look like a very loud
thinker and we have something we‟re discussing. Thank you very
much," and I turned back around.
A second later, I felt a tap on my shoulder and she said, "Who are
you?" because I was pacing the fact that she was talking to herself
in her head. It wasn‟t that difficult to see. It didn‟t take any psychic
power. It was just a matter of simple observation to see what she
was doing on the inside.
DRILL EXERCISE
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First divide up into twos, person A and person B, and then switch.
Person A, you‟re going to look at person B and make three
statements that pace their reality. Then you‟re going to switch.
That‟s all we‟re going to do for the next 10 minutes, and then I‟ll
build a piece onto that.
Mark: Yes.
Mark: Yes, so much so that we just did one or two rounds and we hadn‟t
really talked at all before. Then we just turned and got into a deep
conversation.
Ross: Were you able to do it and who did you work with?
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Ross: The next step, now that you‟ve paced the other person, is to add a
suggestion. An example would be, “You‟re looking at me and you‟re
listening to what I have to say. You‟re thinking certain thoughts and
you‟re beginning to focus in on what it is you want to learn.”
That was a suggestion, and you followed the first three. Remember
I said forget about the Yes Ladder in business. “Mr. Jones, you like
making money, don‟t you?" "Yes." "And you‟d like to secure the
financial future of your family, wouldn‟t you?"
Remember, I said to forget about the Yes Ladder. Instead you want
an internal, not a Yes Ladder but an internal Yes Momentum.
When you want to establish Yes Momentum, it‟s much different.
They do it in their own head, “Yes, yes, yes.”
There‟s another thing you can do when you offer the suggestion.
You‟re sitting there, listening and looking at me. You‟re aware that
there‟s something you want to learn. You see what I did, that slight
little head nod? There‟s something you want to learn.
When you offer the suggestion, you structure it like this. You‟re
sitting there, you‟re looking at me, you‟re listening to what I have to
say, and you‟re recognizing there‟s something you want to learn.
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something they want to learn and that they want to make a decision
today.
Then you give them the command. The command is whatever you
want them to realize, recognize or become aware of. What were
some of the commands that you wound up giving?
Ross: You‟re sitting there looking at me, aware of what I‟m saying, and it‟s
not necessary to realize I‟m really smart, recognize I‟m really smart
or think that I‟m really smart. Very good.
Do you see how you‟re starting to use these tools naturally, easily,
readily and immediately?
Participant: My command after the three pacing statements was, “I don‟t know if
you could become aware of how doing these exercises is making
all this knowledge more real for you.”
Ross: Oh, that‟s good! More real than what? I really like that.
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One way to establish authority in the world of your subject or
audience is by pacing their ongoing reality. I also said to bring up
and mention their fears, failures and frustrations.
Participant: What I think I‟m selling in the big sense is a feeling, a way that I
help the people see themselves in a new way, younger and more
confident.
Ross: What are the three top fears, failures or frustrations of the people
you‟re selling to?
Participant: I‟d say aging, not looking good, and social confidence in the way
they‟ll be seen.
Ross: Who has a market they‟re trying reach? Who needs to learn to write
a sales letter? What are the fears, failures and frustrations of the
people you‟re addressing?
I could name mine with my seduction students. They don‟t get any
women, they only get the women who accidently like them, they get
the women but not the ones who are in their league, or they have to
go through painful, expensive rituals to get women. I know what
their fears, failures and frustrations are, and therefore, I know what
their fantasies are.
Participant: One of them could be that the product or the service might be
perceived to be too expensive.
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Participant: Honestly, I don‟t know.
Ross: No, you‟re not clear. It‟s something you need to find out.
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Chapter 14 Drills on Being Artfully Vague
“As you sit there looking at me, becoming aware of the fact that
there‟s something you really want to learn today, it‟s not important
that you go inside and find that in a way that feels absolutely
natural, powerful and compelling to you. It‟s equally not important
whether you feel yourself pulled forward by an incredible desire or
pushed ahead by a driving need.
Did I say anything? When I start out by saying, “It‟s not important,”
it‟s powerful for a lot of reasons. When I say, “It‟s not important,”
you‟re not going to resist it because it‟s not important.
Have you ever heard someone say, “We need to talk. There‟s
something very important we need to discuss”? What is your first
response? Have you ever heard your girlfriend say, “We need to
talk”? I‟ll say, “I do that better on a full stomach. Go make me a
sandwich.”
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Have you ever heard this one? “Where‟s this relationship going?”
“To the kitchen to make me dinner.” Score!
When you say, “It‟s not important,” then you begin to describe what
it is you want them to experience. I like to use it like this. “It‟s not
important whether you X, Y or Z,” where X, Y and Z represent the
three different internal processes and flows of thought you want
them to engage in.
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Ross: No. I just mean, “It‟s not important whether you go inside and tune
into how excited you are about what you‟re learning, or whether you
find yourself visualizing all the benefits you‟re going to get from
learning this, or whether you can recognize rapidly how excited you
are to be learning this in a way that makes sense to you.
The way to structure this is to first start with the X, Y and Z. Say
what the conclusions, ways of thinking and the filters are. Say what
the conclusions are that you want people to draw about opening up
to your message.
For example, you can have them recognize the value of something,
realize the excitement about recognizing it, and then come to the
conclusion they reach from that. Generally I‟ll say something like,
“It‟s not important” or “It doesn‟t matter.” “It doesn‟t matter” is just as
good as “It‟s not important.” It‟s the same ambiguity.
“It doesn‟t matter whether you tune in to how excited you are about
what you‟re learning, or whether you find yourself getting really
excited, or whether you recognize that that‟s the process of
stepping into a whole new discovery or direction that you want to
take for yourself.”
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By the way, during the election, did you hear both guys talking
about new directions? “America needs a big, new direction.” I
thought, “Did they take my course?”
Participant: Let‟s say somebody wants to buy a cream for their face.
Ross: “As you‟re rubbing this cream on yourself, feeling how good it is
against your skin and enjoying how great it smells, it doesn‟t matter
whether you tune in to how much you‟re enjoying it now or whether
you picture to yourself how much you‟ll enjoy it in private when
there‟s no one around.
“It doesn‟t matter whether you tune in and focus on how much
you‟re going to enjoy giving this to someone else as a gift. I think
what really matters is that you can find your own reasons to realize
that this is something you want.” This is an example I‟m making up
off the top of my head.
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Chapter 15 Ideal Candidate Patterns
Ross: I don‟t know how that would work with importing because I have no
idea what the patter is there.
Ross: When you think about what it is you like and think about the ideal
relationship you‟d like with a vendor, this is what you say to them.
You‟re the distributor, and they‟re the vendor?
Participant: I‟m the importer and the distributor to the distributors that distribute
to the vendors.
Ross: I‟m going to fill in the blanks for you, but I need to know what you
describe yourself as. When you go to these people, are you the
vendor? Are they the vendor? How do you describe yourself?
Ross: You‟re the importer, so I would say, “When you stop and think
about the ideal business relationship you want with the
importer you can rely on, I‟m not sure just what you think
about that lets you realize that that‟s who you‟re dealing with.
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“But as we‟re talking today, I just want to invite you to ask me
anything you want because I think that‟s part of the process
and an important part of the process of realizing there‟s
something really good that you can do for your business
today.”
Participant: Yes.
Ross: “I don‟t know what it is that happens when you stop and you think
about the ideal kind of business relationship you want with an
importer. I also don‟t know what happens when you recognize that
that‟s what‟s taking place.
What does that cause them to do? It causes them to think of the
things they want in a distributor, or whatever you call yourself, and
apply it to you. I do subtle little self-points like that. They can‟t
object to anything that you‟ve said.
Ross: I know a student who used to get all sorts of jobs. He‟d go in and
get jobs he wasn‟t qualified for.
“If you have any questions about what I‟ve done here, please, I
want you to ask because that‟s part of our establishing the
kind of communication that lets people know they want to
work together.” He had people take a whole stack of resumes and
throw them in the trash and say, “You‟re hired.”
As you sit there today and think about what it is you want in your
ideal teacher, I don‟t know just how deeply that can resonate with
you in a way where you see an opportunity that you know you have
to act on. But as that‟s happening, quickly, naturally and rapidly, I
just want to let you know that I love spinning this shit off the top of
my head.
Do you see the structure of how it works? I‟ve gotten this down so I
understand the formula.
The formula is “As you think about what it is you want in your
ideal X...” Of course, you‟re the ideal X.
“As we‟re talking today, I just want to let you know that as you
think about what it is you want in the ideal X and all the things
you value in finding that X,” pointing to yourself, “there are
ways you can recognize that you‟ve found your ideal X.
“I don‟t know just exactly what those things are, but as we‟re
talking today, if you have any questions at all about what it is
that makes me that person, I just want to let you know, I have
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no idea what those are. I think discovering those is part of the
process of realizing you‟re making a good decision.”
You can actually get them to look at you through all the things they
value. Is that fair? Absolutely.
Participant: I like the way you‟re structuring it right now. Could you give us
maybe two or three examples of a complete structure with no
content, just purely structure, which we can write down and take
home with us?
Ross: Absolutely, I love that challenge. “As you sit there and you think
about the morgle-borgle-orgle of the ideal orgle-smorgle-worgle that
you would like to forgle-morgle-borgle, I‟m not sure just exactly
what that is, but as you‟re discovering that, I just want to let you
know that thinking about things in that way is part of the process of
recognizing that you‟ve found the orgle-borgle-morble of your
smorgle-worgle-porgle.
It‟s, “As you think about or consider who you want for your
ideal XXX, I don‟t know just how quickly those things can
come to mind. But as that‟s happening, I just want to let you
know that if you have any questions for me, please ask them.
That‟s part of the process of recognizing that you are getting
what it is you‟ve been looking for.”
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That‟s another one. “That‟s part of the process of recognizing that
you are getting what you‟ve been looking for.” Write that down,
word for word.
According to whom is that part of the process? Who says that‟s part
of the process? But they‟ve bought into it because you‟ve been
pacing everything else so far. It‟s also a truism because, frankly,
that is part of the process.
Think about this. Part of what gives this the skill is that on some
level, even though I‟m being vague, it‟s actually an accurate pace
for how people decide things.
How do you decide that you want to work with someone? How do
you decide that someone is worth hiring? On some level, you have
to go inside and find the place in your mind where you think of what
it is you want or value for that position and compare the person
you‟re talking to against those values.
I said, “As you think about what it is you want in the ideal
candidate…” I didn‟t say, “As you picture in your mind hiring a
person who can run your IBM 361 computer…” I didn‟t say that. I‟m
vague but specific enough where they get the general idea.
As you sit there listening to me, you find your own reasons. That‟s
another one I like. “Find your own reasons.” I use this in Speed
Seduction® for my answering machine intruder. It‟s a guaranteed
way to get a girl who hasn‟t called you back to call you back.
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I like to say, “You can find your own reasons.” What process do you
have to engage in to find your own reasons? The most powerful
persuasion matches the other person‟s internal experience on
some level.
When you go inside and find what it is that truly motivates you, and
you find how great it is to come from that level and look through
that level whenever I‟m speaking to you, you can then recognize
that growing receptiveness and utter receptivity to what it is I‟m
saying.
“It‟s not important” and “I don‟t know.” As you sit there listening to
me, I don‟t know just exactly which of these fantastic learnings will
excite you the most.
Here‟s a pacing statement, “As you sit there, I don‟t know,” and
then it‟s followed by the words “just exactly which,” “I don‟t know
which” or “I don‟t know just exactly which.” There‟s a
presupposition. The presupposition is that there‟s going to be
something, but I just don‟t know exactly which.
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What it is you‟re attempting to design?
Ross: “As you‟re reading this message and you begin to consider all the
benefits and features you want in your ideal distance-learning
program, I‟m not sure just exactly what they are. As they‟re coming
up, follow along with me while I show you how fantastic this
opportunity is.” You can pace somebody who is reading, too.
False Choices
“It doesn‟t matter” is a great way to set up false choices. Have you
ever hear the phrase, “Heads I win, tails you lose?” When I say, “It
doesn‟t matter,” I know I‟m going to set up either-ors that don‟t exist
in the real world.
“As you sit there listening to me, it doesn‟t matter whether you find
yourself totally fascinated by what I have to say, or you naturally
and easily find yourself in a place where everything appears
fascinating, or whether you just discover how good it feels to open
your mind completely. What really matters is you discover for
yourself which one of those feels most comfortable, natural and
right for you.”
You can see how I set up all those false choices. “It doesn‟t matter
whether you find X, Y or Z,” where X, Y and Z are all the choices
you want them to make. Those choices are how you want them to
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think or feel about your proposal. In a sense, you‟re giving them
three choices of what filter you want them to look at you through.
They can look at you through the filter of utter fascination, wanting
to believe or absolute gullibility. You set it up that it‟s going to be
one or all of those. “It doesn‟t matter whether you find yourself
totally fascinated about what I have to say, or whether you find
yourself getting more excited about what I have to say, or more
intrigued by what I have to say.”
Ross: I think so. It‟s like Mike Tyson used to throw combinations. He‟d
only have to throw one punch, so that‟s not a good example. It‟s
building cognitive momentum and emotional inertia: one, two, three,
boom, boom, boom.
Ross: If you give them just two, they‟ll think, “Wait a minute, that‟s an
either-or.” If you give them three, it goes right in.
“It‟s not important.” “I don‟t know.” “It doesn‟t matter.” They‟re very
similar ambiguities. According to whom doesn‟t it matter? According
to whom is it not important? What is it that I don‟t know?
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It doesn‟t matter. If it doesn‟t matter, I don‟t need to worry about it. I
won‟t resist it. If I don‟t know, then I don‟t have to resist the
message because I‟ll think, “He‟s not claiming to be Mr. Know-It-
All.”
They relax. They are softeners. They soften the person up. They
drop their hands so in the match, you can go boom, boom. Think of
them as body shots, to use a hostile metaphor like boxing.
Do you ever watch some boxers? They go for the body before they
go for the head. Why do they go for the body first? They drop their
hands. If you hit someone in the body, their arms get sore. They
drop their hands, and then you pop them in the head or in the face.
These are softeners. “I don‟t know just exactly how quickly you can
find yourself wanting to drop your panties, Debbie, or whether you‟ll
find yourself just naturally and easily wanting to get into your
birthday suit, or whether it just feels better to run around free as a
bird, bookie-butt naked. But what is important…” That‟s a crazy
example.
Ross: Are you selling your services as a copywriter? I don‟t know what
you mean by ad copy.
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Ross: “When you think about what it is you want in your ideal
copywriter and you allow those thoughts to come to mind as
we‟re talking today, I‟m not sure exactly which ones will really
grab your attention.
“As you think about that, as we‟re talking together, I just want
to let you know that the better questions you ask and the more
thoroughly you ask me, the more you can recognize for
yourself that, „Wow! This guy really matches that.‟”
Participant: I have a question about the example you just gave. When you
mention asking questions at the end, you‟re doing that because you
know they‟re going ask questions and that reinforces what you just
said?
Ross: It‟s even cleverer than that because this is where it gets wicked-sick
clever. This is the part I love teaching. This is wicked sick.
“As we‟re sitting here talking,” which is a behavior, “and you think
about this,” that‟s thought, “I don‟t know whether you‟ll think this, or
think this, or think this.” There‟s behavior and thought, thought,
thought. “I just want to let you know it‟s perfectly okay to ask
questions,” back to behavior, “because that‟s how you can
recognize that you‟re making a good decision.”
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questions is because I realize he matches all my criteria in the first
place.”
We‟ll take a situation, and you know in this situation they‟re going to
do a certain behavior. You go in beforehand and you pace as such
that when they find themselves doing that behavior they say, “How
did he know I was going to ask questions?” The unconscious says,
“He told me that asking questions is part of the process of
recognizing that he‟s the person I want. That‟s right.”
They have two choices. Either they don‟t ask any questions and
accept everything you say is true or they conclude unconsciously
that any questions they do ask are only proof that they want to hire
you. Do you see that twist you can stick into your mind?
That doesn‟t work with everyone. Maybe 30% of the people will
respond to it. Other people just don‟t visualize that way. They‟re not
that suggestionable. For the 30% who do, this is what you‟ll see.
I‟m exaggerating. Their pupils will dilate, you‟ll see them make the
image, and they‟ll look at you through that.
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themselves really enjoying it. There‟s a lot we‟re going to show you
how to do. What city do you work out of?
Ross: Are these chicks hot? They‟re hot Israeli girls, right?
Participant: Of course.
Participant: We just finished discussing how you set up the behavioral things.
Ross: Isn‟t that wicked? “As we‟re talking today, think about what you
really want in the ideal person for this position. Picture that in your
mind.
“I‟m not sure which of those thoughts will really grab hold. I just
want to let you know that as that‟s happening, it‟s really important
as part of this process that you feel free to ask any questions you
want. That‟s part of the practice of recognizing you‟re really making
the right decision.”
Since you‟re referring to yourself with gestures, you don‟t say it‟s
about hiring you. If you said, “It‟s part of the process of recognizing
you‟re making a good decision about hiring me,” they would say,
“Whoa! Hold on there, buddy.” You leave that part out.
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This is really a way of hijacking the behaviors you know they‟re
going to be doing anyway and changing the meaning of those
behaviors. It‟s the equivalent of saying it, but you‟re not. You‟re
implying it. “Asking questions about my qualifications causes you to
conclude that I‟m the person you want to hire.”
Ross: “Take a hike.” When you do it like this, it makes sense. They won‟t
know it consciously, but unconsciously they‟ll think, “I‟m asking
questions. He told me asking questions means he wants to hire me.
Okay, I‟ll hire him.” That‟s wicked sick.
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Chapter 16 Operating System and Machine Language of Persuasion
Participant: When you do that, that‟s the sort of communication you were
talking about the first day that manipulates how they reflect on the
experience.
Ross: I hate the word “manipulate,” but yes. It‟s conditioning their
unconscious mind how to interpret when they pop out and wonder
about what you‟re saying. That‟s exactly correct. It‟s part of that
process of conditioning how they respond to their feelings about
what you‟re doing and what conclusions they reach about it. This is
the operating system and machine language of persuasion.
The other tools you learn from other people are powerful to be sure.
I encourage you to learn them. Imbedding commands, suggestions,
and ambiguities is great. They‟re powerful strategies, but they‟re an
application program like Microsoft Word or Safari.
Participant: Could we get that last sentence you used? I know it‟s going to be
on the tape, but I‟d like to get it and meditate on it tonight when it‟s
fresh from the seminar. I‟d like the full sentence.
Ross: Let me give you the structure of it. I‟m going to give you the
formula.
The first thing is you want to talk about a behavior that you know
they‟re doing. Describe the behavior with an “as you” or “as we.”
We go behavior, thought, behavior, conclusion about behavior. The
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big level formula we‟re going to talk about is behavior as we talk
together today.
“As we‟re sitting here talking today and you‟re thinking about what
you want in your ideal teacher, I‟m not sure exactly which of those
thoughts will really grab a hold and come up strongly in your mind. I
just wanted to let you know that it‟s really important that you find
yourself asking questions. That‟s part of the process of recognizing
you really want to learn from this person.”
You could be even sneakier and say, “I‟m not sure which of those
thoughts will powerfully come to mine.” Did I say “mine” or “mind”?
Now you‟re giving them the suggestion to let your thoughts become
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my thoughts. “Which of those thoughts will come to mine? Come to
my thoughts.” Do you hear it?
“As that‟s happening, I just want to let you know that it‟s really
important that you ask questions.” There‟s the behavior. “It‟s really
important that we have a dialog.” That‟s the behavior. Now you‟re
going to tell them how to think about the fact that you‟re doing that
behavior together.
The next thing is you‟re directing them back to more thought. “I just
want to let you know that it‟s really important that we have a dialog,”
or “It‟s really important that you ask questions,” or “It‟s really
important that you ask anything you want of me because I think
that‟s part of the process of recognizing someone you can trust who
you really want to work with.”
Now you‟re going to tell them what conclusion they should reach
and what meaning they should give to the fact that they‟re going to
engage in this behavior.
What does it mean to their mind? You‟re telling their mind what
meaning, conclusion, or thoughts they should have about the fact
that they‟re doing those behaviors with you. Do you get the
formula? It‟s not word for word.
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let you know that it‟s really important that you feel free to open up
and ask me anything you want. I think that‟s part of the process of
two people coming together in a way where you feel excited and
can‟t even put your finger on the source of your excitement.”
Now you‟re going to tell them what conclusion they come to from
asking all those questions or doing the behavior you described.
“Doing this behavior means that I‟m someone you want to do
business with, go to bed with, hire or whatever?”
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Ross: It‟s simple because you, as an inventor, understand procedures.
You grasp this and you‟re excited about it. Da Vinci himself would
love this.
Once you understand the structure and what it‟s saying to do, you
can go back to the little pieces of language like “as you” and “while
you” and see how the little pieces, the imbedded commands and
suggestions, fill it in.
Did anyone see the “Chronicles of Narnia” movies where they talk
about the deep magic and the deeper magic? I‟m teaching you the
deeper magic that underlies everything else. There‟s a level of
seeing the matrix where you know how to use embedded
commands and voice inflections. Then it‟s when you see this stuff.
Ross: An accelerator is just telling them, “These thoughts are coming up.”
Now you‟re going to tell them what the thoughts do. The thoughts
take hold, motivate and excite them. Tell them how the thoughts
affect them. This isn‟t what the thoughts mean. It‟s how the
thoughts come up. “I‟m not sure just exactly which of those will take
a hold or come up in your mind.”
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Chapter 17 Pseudo-Orientation in Time
Ross: I went through my archives and found some really cool stuff that I
taught all the way back in 2006, but the people were going crazy
and using it.
You can have them imagine a time in the future having already
done what you want them to do or already having bought and
enjoyed your product, looking back on this moment of picking
up the phone and ordering now as having been the start of
that. Even listening to me say that bats you around.
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If you can orient the person‟s mind to a place in time after the
resistance has already been dropped, they‟ll no longer have the
resistance. Move around their sense of time.
In and of itself, it‟s not enough. If you use that in combination with
other techniques, like creating a frame through which they view you
with a desire to be convinced or a childlike state of mind, it
becomes very powerful.
What are some pieces of language you can use to orient your client
or subject into the future? Why would it be useful? At what point
would you want to do that?
Ross: No. I don‟t mean literally going into the future. In their imagination,
they‟re going into the future.
Ross: Rather than having to move through resistance, you can have them
imagine a time after the resistance has already dropped.
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I don‟t want my clients or subjects to make a decision. I want them
to imagine all of the fun and benefits after already having made the
decision. I never want someone to make a decision. I want them to
imagine all the fun, benefits and great stuff that flows to them after
having already made the decision.
A year ago, I had a dream. When I talk about dreams, I really have
had them. I had a dream that there was a thick steel wall. I was on
the other side of the wall, and a lot of people wanted to get through
to me. They were trying to push through the wall and break through
the wall.
Then there was this kid. One moment he was here, and the next
moment, it wasn‟t that he was on the other side of the wall with me
but he was already 30 seconds into already having been on the
other side of the wall.
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Let‟s say it‟s six months after they‟ve ordered. I want them to
imagine a time in the future six months from now already having
enjoyed all the benefits and looking back on this moment of having
made this decision as being the start of that. From the point of view
of your future, this is the past.
Ross: It‟s the process of shifting your client, subject, victim, reader
or listener‟s perceived orientation or position in time.
I like what your father, the inventor, said. “Let‟s move them to the
future and read the stock market.” He‟s thinking literally. I love that,
but that‟s not what I mean.
Listen to what I‟m saying. I don‟t want to take them to after they‟ve
made the decision, although that‟s good. Having them imagine
already having made the decision is good. What‟s even better than
that is taking them to six months past, enjoying it.
The decision doesn‟t even come into it. They‟re just in a place
where they‟re already enjoying all of the benefits that flow from
having made the decision. Then they‟re really convinced because
there‟s a lot of juice and positive stuff. You tie that in to what you
know about their fears, failures, frustrations, hopes, dreams and
desires. Then they really like it.
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If I have them imagine a time in the future six months from now,
really enjoying all the benefits of finally having victory in this area of
life, as they‟re picturing that and really getting a feel for it, I say,
“Wouldn‟t it feel great after you‟ve picked up the phone today to
order this product? Then you can look back on this and think,
„Wow, this is the most fantastic thing I‟ve ever done for myself.‟
Now, before that happens, let‟s take a moment now to look at this.”
Have you ever bought a car and really enjoyed driving it for six
months or a year? You no longer think about how you made the
decision. That‟s way in the past.
An hour after you‟ve bought the car and are driving it home, you
may think, “Why did I do that?” or, “How did I do this?” I don‟t want
them an hour after. That‟s good. It presupposes that they‟ve
already made the decision. But if you can orient them six months
from then, that really makes the decision nothing. You don‟t have to
worry about it.
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Are you beginning to see how this ties together? This is my job on
the third day of teaching. On the third day, I‟ll rise again.
Have you ever seen these ads for Cialis? “If you experience an
erection lasting more than four hours,” call all your friends! How is
that for having you picture a benefit? “We‟re warning you how well
this can work. “If you experience an erection lasting more than four
hours,” call all your ex-girlfriends and get on the internet.
That would really hurt, wouldn‟t it? An erection lasting more than
four hours is calling dating a 20-year-old Swedish girl. I love my job.
This is where it gets really fun, where I tie things together. Now you
begin to see how the concepts work together.
Let me give you an example of the wording. I‟m going to read it out
loud to you word for word. I don‟t want you to take notes. You can
finish writing that last point. Then I want you to put your notes
down, and we will parse through it. This is from a presentation I
gave in 2006.
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Participant: Four.
Ross: “Before I finish speaking to you today.” That‟s one and two. “And
you find yourself imagining what it would be like six months from
now.” That‟s three. “Looking back on this moment as having been
the start of it.” That‟s four. “I‟m not sure exactly what comes to your
mind, but I‟m glad I had the opportunity to speak to you today.”
That‟s five. “Now, before we get into that.” That‟s six. “Let me talk to
you about this now.” That‟s seven.
Useful confusion is the art of artful confusion. Let‟s talk about the
art of artful confusion. Confusion is basically useful because it
overloads the conscious mind‟s ability to follow.
Ross: In fact, you can overload someone by giving them too many things
to pay attention to. It‟s a classic. “Do this while you blink your eye.”
Boom, they go out.
As I said to you, Mike, the other day, when I teach, I come up with
things on the spot that I can then turn into products and elaborate
on more. This is an example. I never thought of the art of artful
confusion before just now. I‟ve thought of these concepts but not
under that umbrella. Mike has been studying with me since ‟97. He
keeps coming back for more, as does his friend.
Are you confused or are you clear? Or are you finding that each or
both can suddenly switch so the part that was confused now
becomes clear and the part that was clear now becomes confused?
Confused?
Participant: Yes.
Ross: There‟s what you know, there‟s what you don‟t know, and there‟s
what you don‟t know you know. When what you don‟t know you
know becomes what you know, then you can think of things
differently. You know?
Participant: No.
Ross: After you‟ve understood that, right prior to your concluding that
before you take action on it it‟s something you need to clearly
understand today, let me say this now.
“Scope ambiguity” means the person can‟t tell who‟s being referred
to. Are you referring to them? Are you referring to yourself? Are you
referring to people in general, which is what we call in English the
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“editorial you”? My mother first taught me that idea. Are you
referring to one specific person other than yourself or them? Those
are the categories of scope ambiguity.
I do this with women. I say, “I find when I really focus in and pay
attention to those thoughts, and I allow myself to let yourself go.”
That‟s another example. Do you hear it? “I just allow myself to let
yourself go.”
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Ross: We‟re going to take turns drilling with this.
“That‟s how I can come to the conclusion that this is something that
I really want to let yourself do.”
Professor: Someone could hear the last statement you made and believe that
you‟re being incoherent.
Professor: Yes.
You‟re enjoying this. The light is going on for him. You have a very
intense look. You don‟t smile. Why is that? You don‟t visibly smile.
Hey, dude, I have cats. I‟ve gotten into a staring contest with my
cats and won, usually.
This is really good when you do sales because when you say,
“Speaking to you as someone who loves to learn,” they think, “Yes,
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I love to learn,” and, “Yes, this is a learning.” It‟s also part of
convincing them what the meaning of the transaction is, not that
you‟re selling them, but that they love to learn.
If you just said, “I think you‟re going to get really excited about what
you‟ll learn today from me about investing,” that‟s not bad. It‟s good.
You can say, “Speaking to you as someone who loves to learn
about what enriches you in this life, I find that when let yourself
really think about that…”
If all you do with your sales letters is include that bit of language,
your response is going to go way up. “Speaking to you as someone
who loves to learn, the story of how this opportunity came to be is
an interesting one that I can‟t wait to share. Before I do that, let me
tell you a little bit about how I discovered this.”
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Do you get that little piece? Put in your sales letter, “Speaking to
you as someone who loves to learn.” Wait a minute. Speaking?
You‟re not speaking. I‟m reading it. There is all sorts of confusion.
Ross: “Speaking to you as someone who loves to learn, the story of how
this opportunity came to be is one I‟d love to share. Before I do that,
let me tell you a little bit about how I discovered it.” What are the
presuppositions? It‟s a story, you‟re going to share it, and it‟s a
discovery.
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Chapter 18 Scope Ambiguity and RJ‟s Metaphors
When you use scope ambiguity, they say, “Is he saying that he
loves to learn or I love to learn? I‟m not sure, so I‟d better listen. I
don‟t want him to think that I don‟t want to learn,” even if you‟re not
there.
It can involve not knowing who you‟re addressing. What were the
other aspects of scope ambiguity I gave you? One is that they don‟t
know who is being addressed, them, you or some other person.
Then I gave you the I/you shift. You can‟t use the I/you shift very
well in writing, but you can use it speaking. You can say, “I find that
when I allow that way of thinking to run through your mind, I really
let those images empower me to make a decision you really want
to make.” Do I mean the editorial you, meaning me, you or people
in general?
You could say, “I find when I allow those thoughts to really take
hold in your mind,” or, “I find when I really allow X to run through
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your mind, it‟s the kind of thing that can allow a person...” What
person? “It‟s the kind of thing that can allow a person to come to
the conclusion that, wow, this is really amazing.”
What is that little piece, “Wow, this is really amazing”? I‟m throwing
my words into their head. As they‟re reading that, they‟re going to
think, “Wow, this really is amazing.”
If I say to you, “It‟s the kind of thing that can allow a person,” who is
that? Which person?
Then I said, “To come to the conclusion that, wow, this is really
amazing.” That‟s the tricky part. That‟s not saying, “Wow, this is
amazing.” That‟s putting those words into your mind right now.
When I said that, did you find yourself thinking, “Wow, this is really
amazing,” a millisecond after I said it?
Participant: It seemed like everything else was so confusing, but that part was
clear.
Ross: Of course! That‟s just it. Now you‟re getting it. Everything up until
that moment was confusing, but then I gave them something
specific to think. If it‟s unclear and then you tell their mind to think,
“Wow, this is really amazing,” suddenly you‟ve filled in the blank,
and that‟s exactly what they‟ll think.
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Remember that when you‟re doing persuasion, some things
have to be done in sequence. There‟s the excellence or skill of
doing things in the right sequence. You‟ve got to lead it in the right
order.
There are some things I do all the time and never stop doing. When
it comes to persuasion in person, I‟m always observing the other
person, calibrating them, in rapport, and controlling my state.
There are some things you do before the persuasion, which are
how I prepare myself and study what I know about the other
person. Preparation excellence would be rehearsing my state and
doing whatever research I need in order to know about the other
person.
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There is sequential excellence, which you do in a certain sequence
or order. For example, “Wow, this is really amazing,” has to be
done in the right sequence.
Participant: In confusion, your mind wants to grab hold of something that makes
sense. At the same time, you‟re fractionating.
Getting back to scope ambiguity, you can do the I/you shift. The
I/you shift enables you, finally, to put in a specific thought, like,
“Wow, this is really amazing.”
You can say, “As you imagine a time six months from now, already
having really enjoyed everything you want from X, won‟t it be great
when you can look back on this moment of having made the
decision as being a part of this?”
Participant: I gave that to my salesmen to use with store owners. They told
them to visualize themselves being successful in the future.
Ross: The I/you shift is another part of scope ambiguity, and it sets up
putting in a specific thought, like, “Then you can just think, „Wow,
this is really amazing.‟”
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Do you see how this stuff is beginning to tie together now? Part of
how I teach is to give you scattered little things and build response
potential, so the last day when I tie it all together, you‟ll think,
“Wow!”
Participant: You mentioned being able to extract somebody‟s trance words out
of their writings. How do you identify the trance words?
Ross: Remember what I said. There are trance words for everyone, like
“wonder,” “ponder” and “imagine,” but there are personal trance
words. Do you remember what mine were?
Participant: Expand.
Participant: Possibility.
Participant: Creativity.
Ross: How can you tell these in writing? You can tell if they‟re writing
about something they‟re passionate about or “my passions.” If they
say “horseback riding,” that‟s not a trance word, but they may say,
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“Wandering down the trail as I ride my horse and being in touch
with the awesomeness of nature.”
I dated an artist. This was great. I looked up her art website. There
were certain words she said. “I love the moment of creating
something larger than life that opens up new opportunities,
connecting in the moment, and living now.” I knew they were “larger
than life,” “opportunities,” “connecting in the moment,” and “living
now.”
I just fed those back to her, and she said, “Wow, I‟ve never had
anybody who understands me this well. Can we go back to your
car?” Boom! I had done my homework.
Participant: Superheroes.
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Ross: I‟m wearing a Green Lantern ring! If you wanted to influence me,
you would make a list of all the words that are associated with
superheroes. What are some of the words or ideas you think of
when you think of superheroes?
Participant: Transformation.
Participant: Flying.
Participant: Nobility.
Participant: Kryptonite.
Ross: My metaphors are aviation, comic books and felines or cats. I love
aviation. Granted that you know that, there is a set of imagery and
words which are likely to have an influence on me.
What you want to know are the metaphors that are common to
fishing. What are the kinds of phrases we use when we refer to
fishing?
Participant: Catch.
Participant: Bait.
Participant: Lure.
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Ross: Reel them in. Hook them.
Ross: “I‟ve got a big one here for you. Let me bait the hook a little bit.”
Just take the metaphors that are common.
You could say, “What do you really enjoy about fishing?” Listen to
what words they lean on. They may say, “I really like the
peacefulness and tranquility.”
There‟s what you say, knowing how to elicit other people to talk
about the areas that are going to give you useful responses, and
noticing how to notice their responses that are useful. Then there‟s
knowing how to incorporate those responses.
Responses can be useful, like what they say, but they can also be
nonverbal. Did you see my nonverbal responses when I said
“expand” and “creativity”? You not only want to feed back “expand”
and “creativity.” You want to feed this back. In fact, if you feed this
back but talk about what you want, you don‟t even have to say
“expand” and “creativity.” I will attach it to that.
The skill sets of persuasion are knowing how to get yourself in the
proper state, knowing what to say, knowing how to get the other
person talking in a useful direction, asking the questions or bringing
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up the subjects that will get them talking, knowing what to
recognize and look for, recognizing what to look for and listen to,
and finally knowing how to feed back or incorporate what you notice
in a useful way.
Participant: Yes.
Ross: Are you paying attention to any of this, Yoav? I‟m giving you guys a
lot of answers before I bring you up here.
Ross: More specific examples I will do when I bring you up here. Are you
excited about this?
Participant: Yes.
Ross: How to prepare or control your state. This is very important. This is
something I do all the time.
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Types of Excellence
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being in control of my state, and if I‟m in front of a person, being in
rapport.
Ross: The first skill set is being able to be in the right state. Do you want
to be in the noisy, confused, desperate state?
Participant: No.
There‟s knowing what to say, knowing how to get the other person
responding in the right way, and knowing how to notice those
responses. You have to know what to look for. Then there‟s
knowing how to incorporate and utilize those responses.
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Each one of these is a skill set that you may naturally already have.
You may naturally already have one or more of these. Good. Keep
improving those. But then see where you see to fill in the blanks.
Where most people get into trouble with persuasion is that they
think it‟s just about what to say when in fact that‟s one-fifth or one-
third of it. Most courses in persuasion will either teach you only
what to say or will teach you the other things partially or
ineffectively.
I‟m overloading you with stuff because I want to give you as much
as possible. What I may do is for each of these is to create an
online module that I charge you a nominal fee to access. You‟re all
getting the four weeks of support for free, but I may then create
these modules.
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Chapter 19 Summary, Hypnotic Trance, and Conclusion
When we started out Friday night, I said that when your prospect,
reader or listener comes to you, they don‟t come with a blank slate.
The learning I gave you was that people‟s emotions can be usefully
viewed as something that not only takes place in the body but is
projected outward as a lens or filter through which people see their
world.
Bear in mind the understanding I gave you this morning about how
people dwell on mistakes. They ruminate and program them back
in. Now you see how that fits in with the first learning I gave you
Friday night.
Participant: Pacing.
Ross: Being artfully vague was the number one thing I told you about.
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“Speaking to you as someone who loves to learn, I‟m not sure just
exactly which of these tools excites you the most, but as that‟s
happening, I think that when you stop and imagine a time in the
future, say six months from now, looking back on all the things
you‟ll enjoy, you can recognize that that process of enthusiasm is
one of the ways in which you can recognize that this is something
really interesting.”
Then I told you that a really excellent persuader not only moves
emotions and sets filters, but they manage people‟s investment in
that process so when they look at it, they think, “This feels good.
This feels right. I want to keep doing it.” I drew that distinction.
I said that when you persuade, there are certain skill sets. They‟re
not necessarily in any order.
3. Being able to get the other person talking in the right way.
5. Utilizing it.
I also talked about excellence. I said that there are different stages
of excellence.
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The second is sequential excellence, how you‟re excellent in
things that go in a certain order. There are certain things that you
only want to do in a certain order.
Then I talked about the really tricky one, the one that‟s absolutely
the key to mastery. What was it?
Each of the smaller tools that I‟ve shown you are ways to make
those things down-to-the-ground reality. Now do you see how it all
ties together?
Participant: Yes.
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Ross: Friday and Saturday, I was giving you little pieces that didn‟t tie
together. Today, I tied them together. What was my purpose for
only giving you little pieces but not really showing you how it fit
together, other than that I like to irritate you?
Ross: This is part of what you need to do as persuaders. If you shove it all
down someone‟s throat, they‟re not going to want it. By building
potential every step of the way, people want more.
Here‟s the really cool one where you really contribute to the world.
It‟s expanding their sense of possibility so they suddenly realize
there‟s something they want that they didn‟t even know consciously
they wanted before or that they want even more than they did a
moment ago. That‟s what is possible. That‟s the set of possibilities
you can have.
Hypnotic Trance
The thing about trance is this. You can listen to every word I say
and pay attention, and you don‟t have to. You can send your mind
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far away and ignore everything I‟m saying, and you don‟t have to.
You can listen to every word I say and send your mind far away.
You can send your mind far away, and you can listen to every word
I‟m saying.
There was a moment when your mind opened and suddenly you
understood what before was unclear. Once your mind opens and
you look through that understanding and desire for more, you can
never go back to not understanding.
Think about it in just that way, in the same way that you learned to
tell time. Once you learned to tell time, you didn‟t know that learning
to read a clock or read your watch would become the foundation of
so many things. It would become the foundation of how you would
meet a friend for coffee, when you had to show up for a job, or how
you would keep track of how long you had done a certain task.
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None of these things ever occurred to you when you were an infant.
These are the building blocks of reality, the things we take for
granted that run in the background of our everyday life.
When you wake up in the morning, how long does it take for your
sense of “I” to wake up with you? How long does it take for that
program that says, “Here I am in my world,” to boot up when you
wake up in the morning?
The notion that you have a self is something that was enculturated
and programmed into you. There are other notions that are part of
your reality that were put into your mind. They were sold to you.
What if you were to just take a deep breath and imagine a future
where all of your desires were already being fulfilled? Inside, you
could build some way to measure it in a way that made it just as
real as measuring out 6 inches of cloth or a yard of thread. That
desire would seem much more real because you were assigning a
measurement to it.
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On a scale of 1 to 10, I don‟t know just how clear that can become,
and it doesn‟t need to become clear. Remember, I also talked
about other things that gave us our sense of reality. I said that once
you make these discoveries, your mind can never go back to the
way it was.
I invite you to take a deep breath. You don‟t need to close your
eyes because you can stay in trance with your eyes open or closed,
it doesn‟t matter.
If you were to imagine a time in the future, say six months from
now, already having enjoyed six months of all the benefits that flow
to you from using these skills, I‟m not sure just how excited you can
be to really go out and apply them, but as you take another deep
breath and look right up here, you can see that understanding and
opening your mind to every word I say is your key to making it
work. Isn‟t that an interesting thing to think about just that way?
Conclusion
I want to thank you for being with me for the last three days. We will
schedule the four follow-up calls. I think we‟ll schedule the first one
for the third week in July. I need a couple of weeks to work out
some other things.
For those of you who have books for me to autograph, you‟re crazy,
but I will autograph them. Thank you for attending and being part of
the experiment.
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Workshops
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Workshop Candidate: Darren
Ross: We‟re here with our first workshop attendee, Darren Williams.
Darren, give me a brief description of what you‟re doing and where
you would like to improve. Tell me what you do.
Darren: I hike in Yosemite National Park and just take pictures of what I
see.
Ross: How did you get into hiking? Can you remember the first time you
did it and what the experience was?
Ross: Do you remember what the impulse was? I want to get his story
because often what sells is the story of the person who‟s doing the
thing. Do you remember where you were when you got the thought
to grab a camera? What inspired you to pick up the camera?
Darren: I had always wanted a digital camera. One of the local stores had it
on sale, and it included a memory card, so I said, “Okay. I‟ll go get
it.”
Ross: Did you have any idea of what you wanted to do with it?
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Darren: I just wanted to take pictures. I had no idea. I was in the Bay Area,
so I started taking pictures around San Francisco and fell in love
with the Golden Gate Bridge. The people at work were
encouraging.
Ross: Stop. Let‟s get to the emotion of that. What do you mean you fell in
love with the Golden Gate Bridge? That‟s a metaphor, by the way.
You‟re not bringing it flowers and humping the girders. Maybe you
are. I don‟t know. This is San Francisco we‟re talking about.
I loved all the different angles to take the photos and the different
times of the day and evening.
Ross: Let‟s slow you down. How does the character of the bridge change
according to the light and time of day? Tell me a little bit more
about that.
Darren: In the morning, it‟s not as bright. It has a lot of fog and everything
around it, so it‟s mysterious and inviting.
Darren: It‟s like a mistress. As the day progresses, the orange of the bridge
becomes more pronounced and magnified. The light reflects all of
that and makes it much more pronounced. As the sun crosses the
sky and goes to setting, I noticed at different angles that it would
really offset. Some evenings, there would be pinks, oranges and
purples. It would really stand out a whole lot more.
Ross: Now tell me about hiking on the trails. How did that happen?
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Darren: After everybody got sick and tired of looking at the different pictures
of the Golden Gate Bridge, they said, “Why don‟t you take pictures
of something else?” Being a redneck and not from around the area,
I said, “What else is there?”
That‟s the first metaphor he came up with on his own. I had to elicit
the metaphor, “It‟s like a mistress.” How are you a redneck?
Ross: I know people from Georgia who are not necessarily rednecks. Do
you live any kind of redneck lifestyle?
Since I work on nightshift, I left at 3:00 in the morning and got there
before the sun rose.
Ross: Let‟s skip that part. You fell in love with Yosemite. How many
pictures have you taken of Yosemite?
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Ross: That‟s a lot of encounters with Yogi Bear. That‟s Yellowstone, right?
Have you seen wildlife there?
Darren: Absolutely.
Darren: Yes. The first time, I was hiking along. I had been up for about 18 to
20 hours. I had hiked about 20 to 22 miles that day. I was going
along and moving as fast as I could to get to where I wanted to be
for sunset. Bears in the summertime smell like an outhouse.
Darren: I looked up, and there was a bear not too far from me. It was just
ripping apart a tree stump.
Darren: It was eating grubs and bugs. I followed it for quite a while. All of a
sudden, it stopped, turned around and looked at me. It came
straight at me.
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Ross: It didn‟t attack you?
Darren: Not at that time. I looked around at everything, and then I realized
that I heard some clicking sounds. I looked up, and about 10 or 15
feet away from where I was standing were a couple of bear cubs
going up a tree. I was too close to its babies, so I picked up my
tripod and just started running. I ran through the Manzanita bushes.
Darren: No.
Ross: That‟s enough of those stories. What would you like to do with this
business? What is your goal?
Ross: Those are domain names. That‟s all they are. What are you looking
to do?
Darren: I want to use iWaterfall.com to put out some video and background
screens and market them to the iPhone people.
Darren: Exactly.
Ross: I don‟t know this business. The first question we have to ask is
whether there is money here. If there‟s not money here, then what
you have is a hobby, not a business. Let‟s slow down a minute.
Scott: Yes. It‟s not guaranteed, but done right, it can work.
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Ross: Done right, how does that revenue model work? How do you make
money off iPhone apps?
Scott: There are plenty of different ways. One that I might recommend to
you is to sell a basic app. Then you can sell add-on packages to
that application.
Ross: What is the procedure by which you sell an app? Do you create it
and get it in their App Store?
Scott: Yes. There‟s a $100 fee, I think, to have them look at it. Then they
put it in the App Store.
Ross: How does the revenue share work? If he sold the app for $1 a
download, what piece would he get, and what piece would they
get?
Ross: There we go. When you say that you want to sell an app, let me be
clear about something. You‟re correct, but there‟s another sense in
which that answer is incomplete. It‟s not a wrong answer. It‟s an
incomplete answer, meaning that people don‟t buy the app. They
buy the experience that the app allows them to have or create.
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What does Truphone do? It gives you cell phone access over the
internet. You get cell phone convenience at internet prices. You
need to be able to sum up in a word or two what it does.
I also have Uno because I love playing Uno. I get to play Uno and
practice so I can beat people. When my girlfriend and her friends
play, I kick their asses because I play a lot of games on here.
Yes, you‟re selling an app. I got that, but my question is, “What is
having the app going to allow the people to experience that they
otherwise wouldn‟t?”
You can sell high-end luxury, which you‟re obviously not selling in
an app. You can sell connectivity, the ability to connect to other
people and have that experience. It‟s the ability to create a tribe.
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Darren: They are videos of the waterfalls that I‟ve taken.
Darren: It‟s letting them experience all the coolness of being there. It‟s
exactly like being there.
Ross: That‟s not bad. “The coolness of being there” is a start. The name
that you give the app is a big part of whether it sells and the way in
which people search for it. I‟ve never done this. This is interesting.
Participant: Wouldn‟t he be selling the ability for people to change their state of
mind? If they‟re in a busy business day, they can experience his
application and have a moment of calmness.
Ross: You‟re selling waterfalls. My first thought is that it‟s too specific. I
could be wrong.
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Ross: Not necessarily. Just hold on a minute. I‟m not willing to go there
just yet. We have a lot of powerful, creative minds here, and that‟s
part of why we‟re coming together.
Scott: There are a certain number of people who will buy anything that
you can sell on the iPhone. I think there‟s a very low barrier to entry
in terms of putting up videos of waterfalls online, on YouTube for
free.
Ross: I don‟t think this is an internet thing at all. I‟m being blunt with you. I
don‟t think people are going to be willing to download or look at it.
That doesn‟t mean that there aren‟t vehicles for the talent.
A.J.: I don‟t know how well it would do as an iPhone app, but you could
still do it as a hobby and get into the blogging world. You could take
that route, and then people would come to see your site. As far as
making money, you could do it how a lot of bloggers do it, by doing
the whole ads thing. That‟s one route.
Ross: Here‟s another thought. If you can‟t make your business the
primary business, you can make your business an addition to or
add-on to a primary business. How many companies are making
tons of money selling stuff that goes with the iPod? They didn‟t
come up with the iPod, but they‟re making a lot of money.
Here‟s just one idea. If you could find people who do Outward
Bound or nature journeys, you could partner with them to offer a
video package where you go out as part of it and do really beautiful,
high-quality nature photography of the people in those
surroundings.
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There‟s a guy named Paul Lemberg. He has something called
Formula 5 where he talks about the elements of product creation.
Paul is the expert on that. He‟s a www.StomperNet.com faculty
member, but he also has Formula 5 that he sells separately. As a
Stomper member, I get it free. I would look up Paul Lemberg if
you‟re looking to do product creation.
Darren: Absolutely.
Ross: They don‟t need to pamper you. You‟ll go right out on the trail with
them. Do you have skills as a nature guide?
Darren: I‟ve never tried, but I‟ve taken several people out.
Ross: What if you teamed up with someone who‟s a good nature guide
and took people out? They‟d do that part, and you‟d do the
photography. Or you could team up with the company and include it
as an add-on package. That‟s just one idea.
Participant: I know a guy living at the lake who has a pretty nice house he made
from just making mouse pads.
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Ross: What kind? What did he cater to? How long ago did he start doing
it?
Ross: With mouse pads, you have to get distribution. I‟m not saying you
can‟t do it as a side piece of income, but I don‟t think it‟s something
where you can make a lot of money. I could be wrong.
For that matter, you could make cups and toilet paper, but then
you‟re in the manufacturing business or hiring people to
manufacture. I don‟t know if that‟s something you want to do, but
my intuitive sense says no.
Participant: What if you use your website to send a newsletter or some sort of
update every week or month to promote your documentary style of
videography? At the same time, you could partner with the tourist
locations to promote it in some way.
Ross: I smell money here. In fact, you could create nature documentaries.
You could go out on their safari, nature journey or Outward Bound
and say, “Be the star of your own nature documentary with _____.”
Make them the star of their own nature documentary or safari. You
would be out there documenting it. You‟re not a filmmaker. You‟re a
documentarian. I‟m feeling my way through this.
Participant: Maybe there‟s a way to combine all that with the current global
warming and green thinking. Perhaps like what you were just
saying about putting people in a documentary, you could put how
people are contributing.
Ross: No, that doesn‟t resonate with me, but thank you for the idea.
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Mike: “Discover the splendors of Yosemite that the average person never
experiences.” Worldwide Waterfalls is too big. You need to niche. A
niche is Yosemite. You‟ve traveled 1,200 miles in Yosemite, so you
need to start making little YouTube videos. Get Twitter and
Facebook accounts, and hook them all up. That‟s the deadly
trifecta.
Once you‟ve done that, you need to sell people little maps and stuff
on how to experience the parts of Yosemite that they‟ve never been
to. Where are those people? Where are your customers? They‟re in
Yosemite. They get a million people a year.
Ross: Mike, slow down. Notice the speed at which the person you‟re
speaking to processes and speaks. I‟m not saying anything about
the content of your idea. I‟m talking about the manner in which you
deliver it. Slow down. Use your own skills.
Ross: I‟m glad you‟re excited, but listen to me. This is a point, everyone.
Enthusiasm can destroy a presentation and sale if it‟s not done in
the right amount or at the right time. If you‟re selling face to face,
enthusiasm at the wrong time can destroy a sale, contrary to
popular belief.
I‟m just telling you that, but go ahead. I like your enthusiasm.
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Mike: Cadence is important. I don‟t disagree with you, but the reason I
spoke fast is because I didn‟t want to take up a lot of the time and I
have a lot of ideas to give. If you‟d rather have me talk like this, I
have no issues.
You can give people the tours and experiences that they‟ve never
had before. That‟s something you should consider doing because
that‟s really where you are. You‟re an expert on Yosemite.
Ross: The challenge I have with that is that it limits your market. If your
skill is a fantastic nature photographer, aim high. Aim at the people
with a lot of disposable income. I don‟t think those are necessarily
people who choose to vacation in Yosemite.
I don‟t know how you‟d monetize it, how much you‟d need to
charge, and how much they would be willing to pay to do it. It‟s just
an idea.
Yosemite is a good idea, but how much money and how many
people are you going to have to do to build a revenue stream? How
much money are the people who go to Yosemite going to be willing
to pay for that?
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Darren: One of the thoughts that I had was to get some billboard space or
purchase some property along the different routes into Yosemite
and put some of my pictures up. They could be huge pictures with
signs saying, “Didn‟t get the pictures you wanted? aWaterfall.com.”
Ross: If you‟re going to create a business model, you have to ask, “How
does it monetize?” Where are you going to be collecting the
revenue? How much can you charge? Where is your profit margin?
Darren: No.
Mike: You want to get people to know, like and trust you. By putting out
these little videos and doing all this stuff step by step, people are
getting to know, like and trust you. Then you‟ll have an entry-level
sale. You‟re going to have to move them up and up. Eventually, you
can do all those things that you were talking about, but you need an
entry point.
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There‟s a concept in marketing called NEER, naturally existing
economic relationships, or PEER, pre-existing economic
relationships. This is just an example. If you had some little retail
item, rather than opening up your own store, try to get Wal-Mart to
carry it.
We‟re talking about a service here, but I‟m saying you could find a
way to partner with companies who already do Outward Bound
journeys or something very high-end.
If you get Robb Report, look in the back. They have ads for exotic
vacations, like flying a MiG in Russia. If you could find those
companies in the back of that magazine that do luxury safaris and
nature things, you could pair up with them.
Darren: Yosemite.
Scott: National Geographic runs a travel service where they have one of
the photographers who take pictures for their magazine teach the
people who go on these luxury, high-end travel tours how to take
the best kind of pictures they could possibly take with their digital
SLRs.
Ross: That‟s brilliant! I‟m so happy. Why don‟t you create an online course
that they can take? You can run a contest. Have people submit
their photos, and you say, “I‟m going to take three people and teach
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them how to be master nature photographers for when they go on
their journey.”
Even create a kit for dads. “Okay, Mom. Dad takes crappy videos?
Here‟s how to train him in three downloadable lessons.” You‟re a
genius, man! Fire every other client. You‟re working for me. Scott,
expand on that.
Scott: One, you‟re looking for people with disposable incomes, people
who buy $1,000 digital cameras. They have disposable income and
time to go on these treks to Yosemite.
Ross: In that way, your existing photographs aren‟t what you‟re selling.
The existing photographs are proof of your skill that other people
would like to copy.
Scott: National Geographic has that undisputable proof that they have
fantastic photographers who are going to teach you. Your existing
body of work is that proof.
The next point is unrelated. It goes back to the original question you
had. I want to tell everyone about this tool. It‟s called Google
Insights for Search. It‟s a keyword research tool that tells you by
time and by year.
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Ross: How do you find it? What is the URL?
When I‟m doing research for a possible business idea, that‟s the
first place I always go. I check out what existing search volume is
there for it.
Ross: Let‟s try it. Let‟s see what search results come out for “Yosemite.” I
like this idea. Scott, would you sell an online course or something to
teach people how to do it?
Ross: Give them photography tours that show them the best places to go.
Also, teach them the skills to take their own photography. You can
position yourself as a master photography teacher. I like this. I
really like this.
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Participant: Getting back to your original idea which was about an iPhone
application, one element that didn‟t seem to be emphasized was
the audio aspect of the thing. Assuming that your passion is for this
iPhone application, we need to bring the audio into it and figure out
how we would market that aspect.
Ross: I think he‟s right in the sense that it might give it a higher perceived
value. It might monetize fractionally better, but I don‟t think an
iPhone app in this area is really going to be the answer. If the app
itself taught them how to take better photographs, then that might
have some value.
Participant: It could teach them how to take better pictures with the iPhone
camera even.
Mezra: Ross has brought up an important point. What‟s the experience you
are going to offer them? I believe the biggest selling point would be
that all of us are in buildings. We see chairs, cars and so much
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cement and metal. It is, on a subconscious level, very stressful for
us. All of us crave to get in touch with nature.
Darren: It‟s not just a regular waterfall. Of course, it has a rainbow in it.
Mezra: If I could see the rainbow and waterfall, and if I could hear the
waterfall, maybe I could have the added feature of putting people
on hold and they‟d hear the same waterfall.
Ross: Thank you. I like the idea, especially that when you put someone
on hold, it pops up. I just don‟t know about the app thing.
Scott: You can get a basic app made for a few thousand dollars. It‟s low
risk if you just do basic pictures.
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Ross: We could try it. The question is: Is there a way to popularize the
app through social media? Scott, let‟s say we were going to design
a social media strategy for him to popularize the app.
Scott: Social media is things like Facebook and Twitter. It‟s stuff that is
spread virally from people to people. It could be from a business to
a bunch of people as well, but more often it‟s among friends and
peers.
First, you have to think about what the niche is. Is it specifically
Yosemite, or is it more generally waterfalls?
Scott: I would take a look at the search queries that are out there. Is there
a niche or query that‟s being used right now that‟s unfulfilled?
That‟s built-in traffic which is looking for something you have that
there is no answer for right now.
Ross: In fact, that may work to his advantage because it would be a long-
tail keyword, “Yosemite waterfall pictures” rather than “Yosemite” or
“Yosemite pictures.” It would be a long-tail keyword with a lot of
words that are very specific. He could niche it more easily that way.
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I would give away a few pictures first. As long as you watermark
them whenever they get spread around, your domain, Twitter
handle, Facebook page or whatever can be imprinted on those
pictures.
Ross: There‟s an application called Twitpic. Do you know what Twitpic is?
Scott: Yes, but he would want to put up high-quality pictures that become
people‟s desktop backgrounds. Every day that they‟re looking at
that picture, they‟re also looking at the URL, Twitter handle or
whatever.
You need to figure out what the goal is of spreading all these free
materials around. You need to ask people to do something. Giving
away free stuff is great, but what is the goal of giving away that free
stuff? Is it to download the application for $1?
Ross: Thank you, Scott. Let me take this from a different perspective. One
of the things I‟ve learned about business is what you‟re not going to
do. Make a “do not do” list. What are those aspects of doing this
that you just don‟t want to do and are not willing to do?
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Darren: Absolutely.
Ross: “How to” sells. How‟s this: “The City Slicker‟s Guide to Breath-
Taking Nature Photography,” or something like that? “The Urban
Dweller‟s Guide to _____. I need a metaphor. I‟ll come up with it,
but I like the idea of teaching.
Ross: Ladies and gentlemen, we have the search results. What did we
search for?
Scott: You can see that the keyword I‟ve typed in here is “Yosemite Falls.”
There is search volume here represented by this graph. You can
see that it‟s actually a seasonal trend. This is looking over the last
four years. There are peaks during summer months, not
surprisingly.
Ross: The next time we do this, we need to get a projector that projects
from a Mac so that people can see this.
Scott: Down further, the next bunch of information we get is a map. In this
case, we‟re looking all over the world. I‟m going to click on the US,
and it‟s going to show me only data from the United States now. It‟s
going to update all the other areas, so you can see, not
surprisingly, that California is the number-one area for this.
Ross: There‟s a program called Market Samurai that has all this. Market
Samurai will not only show you search traffic, but it will also show
you what articles are being published on the internet related to that
and what blogs talk about that search item.
It will also show you the Microsoft commercial index. It will show
you which searches are resulting in people actually buying. Those
are the terms you want to use.
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Scott: The simple test is to just do a Google search and see if any ads
appear on those queries. If ads appear, someone is monetizing that
keyword somehow.
Ross: That‟s a traffic issue. The issue here, and we keep coming back to
this, is: What are the skill sets that you can sell? You can sell the
photographs, but if you do that, I don‟t like the idea.
Go ahead and do the app because it won‟t cost you anything, but
don‟t rely on that. You need to go really high end and sell a really
high-end, slick book. I don‟t know how exactly you‟re going to do
that, but that‟s one avenue.
The other avenue is teaching the skill set in some form. I‟m not sure
exactly what form that teaching would be, either an online course or
a DVD/CD that they buy that shows them how to take professional-
quality, breathtaking photographs.
“Here‟s how to squeeze the most out of this piece of equipment and
this piece of equipment. Here are the hints. Here‟s where to go to
photograph it. Here are my secrets ______.”
Now my mind is turning on. I think what you really need to sell is
the skill set that you have. Use the photographs as proof that you‟re
good at doing it. Don‟t limit it to waterfalls, but make it any kind of
nature photography.
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Darren: I have a very high-end, wide-angle lens. Then I have a cheapie $50
Best Buy wide-angle lens. To compare the two, the difference is so
small that you‟re paying $500-plus for about this much more of a
strip.
Ross: “Why pay $500-plus for a professional-quality lens when you can
use my three amazing secrets to squeeze professional-quality
photos from a $50 lens? Dear friend who wants to shoot like a
nature photographer but spend like a bum…” or something like that.
Create a course that shows people how to copy your skill set with
very cheap equipment. Now I‟m on the track of it. Now my
metaphor mind can turn on.
Participant: If that‟s the kind of thing you‟re going to do, one really good way to
find your market is to go to a big bookstore and check out the
magazine racks for travel magazines. See which ads repeat by
people who are in the business that you‟re going to be in. I
guarantee that someone is selling something similar.
If you can get a hold of them and get their lists, or just see what‟s
repeating so you know what to sell, that‟s a good way to find your
market. If you start with your product, you don‟t know if it‟s going to
sell or not, but if you get in the way of a market that‟s already doing
really well, it‟s shooting fish in a barrel.
Ross: Now we‟ve zeroed in. Have you ever seen this guy, Video
Professor? He sells CDs on how to do things. I think you should
create some kind of online course. Can somebody get online and
go to GoDaddy to see if someone has
NaturePhotographyTips.com?
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By the way, if you wanted to take photographs in other places, this
is a deductible business expense. How horrible if you fly to Alaska
to take glacier pictures. It‟s a legitimate expense.
Ross: I‟ll grab those domains for him, and then I‟ll give it to him as a gift if
you find anything similar.
I was wondering if you wanted to check with them and say to them,
“You have some pictures. I have some I think are unique. You are
in the area that I already want to get into, which is Yosemite. I am
an expert. This is what I can hand you.”
They‟re a huge site with waterfalls from all around the world, but
you have specifically Yosemite. You may have some angles or the
one with the rainbow which is unique.
Ross: With respect, Lisa, how does that monetize or create a business
model? That‟s a thing to do.
Lisa: You sound like you still want something to do with Yosemite
specifically. I was trying to salvage that part. This also has travel
and guides. He was talking about a partner you could do something
with.
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You could approach them and find out where in Yosemite they
need somebody with your expertise and skill. They‟re a large
company. That means they already have that set up. They have the
contacts. If you wanted to get started in a small way, you could say,
“I have all these photographs. I know the park like the back of my
hand.”
You have some unique photographs from there. They already have
the market and website. You say, “This is what I can bring to you
which you may not already have.”
Ross: Where‟s the money in that? How much money are they going to
pay him for more photographs to put up on their website? It doesn‟t
monetize.
Lisa: They also have travel and a huge number of things they offer. I was
just thinking that if he wanted to get started in there, since he likes
Yosemite, he could come to them with his expertise and say, “How
can I fit in?” You were talking about partnering.
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Participant: I‟m not sure that you want to mutually exclude either. To sell the
process, you have to first establish yourself as the authority, as we
learned all of yesterday and this morning. One way to do that might
be to look at what is available.
I‟ve never been in Yosemite myself in the park. Most national parks
do have the historic hotels. There are certainly a lot of tour
operators. Look where the money is. You need to see where there
are people with big pocketbooks who don‟t have those skills, and
whether they want those skills or they want the product of your
skills.
Where are people spending money for this kind of thing? My first
hit, as I said at the very top of this, is that people are spending a lot
of money on nature tours. That‟s what I would investigate.
Part of buying into this is that you get four weeks of follow-up
support. I think we‟ll do the first follow-up support call in two or
three weeks. I need time to rest and do some other things. We‟ll
keep you well-informed. You‟re all invited to join in on that call. I‟m
only going to be working with the workshop people, but everyone
can listen in.
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you that if you limit it to Yosemite, you‟re limiting your income
vastly.
The first question is: What is the process that we can develop
whereby he can do that research and find those people? The
second question is: Once you‟ve researched and found those
people, how do you go about, or find someone who can go about,
offering your services?
Maybe you have the skills to sell it, and maybe you don‟t. I don‟t
know. You need to make a strategic decision at that point and ask
what the smartest strategy is. “Do I want to approach these people
and offer my services, or do I want to hire someone to do it?” My
recommendation is that you hire someone to do it.
If you make the decision to hire someone to do it, you have to ask,
“What is my procedure to find someone who I can hire to do it?” I
want you to think in terms of process and procedure.
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I want you to think in terms of process. What is the process you can
use to research where people are spending a lot of money on
nature and adventure tours?
The second thing is that you need to make a decision. Are you
going to be the one to sell your services, or are you going to have
someone represent you? If it‟s the second one, you need to say,
“What is the process whereby I find someone who can do this and
hire the right person?”
You need to work that out, and you also need to work out your
revenue model. What are the various packages I can charge?
Generally speaking, there are three different levels, like silver, gold
and platinum. That‟s the kind of thing you need to do. You need to
have a conversation with yourself.
Personally, I‟m just telling you. I don‟t care what other people have
said. Take their advice into account. If I were to say to you, “What‟s
the number-one constraint on your idea?” in my opinion, the
number-one constraint is that you‟re only willing to go to Yosemite.
The big money doesn‟t go to Yosemite. The big money goes to
Kenya, Nepal or the Alps.
Ross: Do you understand the processes that I said you need to work
through? Your biggest constraint is that you‟re limiting it to just
Yosemite. Look. You‟re skilled more broadly. It‟s not just
photographing Yosemite. You have great skill as a photographer. If
you‟re willing to stretch yourself and go outside that boundary, you
can make a lot of money.
Thanks.
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Workshop Candidate: Yoav
Ross: Yoav, as you sit here today and listen to me speak to you as
someone who wants to make progress, we can recognize that as
we share together today, anything and everything you say will be
useful. Feel free to speak and challenge because that‟s part of the
process of recognizing that something valuable is taking place.
Yoav: I work for one of the biggest Dead Sea products companies in the
world. Probably most of you have heard about Dead Sea products.
The company is a pretty new company. Four years ago, we started
the company. We‟re having sales at approximately $150 million.
Ross: Worldwide?
Yoav: Right now, the wholesale sales are for 600 locations all around the
world, Australia, New Zealand, and recently Asia and Japan.
Ross: Can you tell us through what medium you do the direct sales?
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Yoav: Has anybody here ever walked into a shopping mall and suddenly
you notice that you were stopped? After 10 minutes, you think
about what happened to you, and you notice that you‟re walking
with two shopping bags in the mall? You just noticed that you
bought a few cosmetic products.
Ross: The women are saying yes, and the men not so much. That tells
you something
Yoav: It happened really quickly. Basically, that‟s the line of the business.
We expose ourselves. Instead of being in a shop, we locate
ourselves in the middle of a shopping mall so anybody who passes
by sees us.
Ross: I think I‟ve encountered you or a similar company where the girls
come up and say, “Let me rub this on you.” I say, “Okay, whatever.”
My students have sarged your employees.
Yoav: I‟m sure they do. I‟m in this group of companies: a real estate
company, an investment company, green energy and a cosmetic
company. I‟m in this group working for the past three and a half
years. I started as a salesperson. After that, I had a position as an
operation manager in the offices.
Ross: How did you become better? Did you stop doing certain things and
subtract them out, or did you start adding things in or both?
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Ross: I‟m going to explore this for a minute, so stay with me. When you
think about the things you began to extract and leave out, what
were the top two or three things you stopped doing which improved
your selling?
Ross: That‟s a great belief to have. Specifically, what were some of the
things you learned not to do? What did you learn to leave out and
stop doing? Can you remember any of those?
Yoav: It‟s anything I don‟t need to say, even if it is part of the material but
is not actually helpful.
Ross: That‟s a very good point. When you model excellence, you want to
ignore the things that the expert ignores, avoid the things that the
expert avoids, do what the expert does and notice what they notice.
Keep going.
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Right now, I‟m basically managing a few locations. I‟m in charge of
training the salespeople. My job is to take care of everything, but
the main thing is the numbers.
Ross: You‟re inspiring me. One of the big challenges is the fact that most
people are so over-stimulated and overwhelmed that they‟re not in
a place to really listen.
Ross: They‟d better give me a blow job for that, forget the soap. It‟s $480.
Good for you.
Yoav: It‟s a combination of products. It‟s not getting one product. It‟s
somebody buying a huge amount.
Ross: The first thing is to find models. One of the models that come to my
mind is Starbucks. The idea that people will go in and pay $2, $4 or
$6 for a coffee drink was pretty revolutionary when Starbucks
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started. I remember that before Starbucks, coffee was 50 cents a
cup. You got it at 7-Eleven. What Starbucks is really selling is an
affordable indulgence.
The second thing they‟re selling is something you can‟t model. It‟s a
comfortable place where people can come together. It‟s a third
place besides the home and the office.
The first understanding I would give you is that even though the
cosmetic is the product, there‟s the product and there‟s the
experience. I believe the experience that you‟re selling, and this is
just my thought, is indulgence. The other thing you may be selling
is gifts for clueless guys who don‟t know what to get a daughter,
spouse or loved one.
Primarily, women are buying for indulgence. The guys are buying
because they‟re probably looking for a gift for someone else. There
are metrosexual guys like me who like that kind of stuff and buy for
ourselves to indulge. This is just my first thought.
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I gave you this assignment. If you could describe the demographic
age and gender of your ideal customer, and by ideal I mean the
ones who spend the most, who are those people?
Yoav: I‟m actually going to this point because I think it‟s very important to
say. What I feel is that we sell Dead Sea minerals. As well, we sell
the idea that by using those minerals, you‟re being more beautiful,
healthier looking, and all kinds of those images that people get
when they buy cosmetics. They have all these ideas and dreams.
Another thing about it, and I think it‟s even more connected to the
subject that you deal with in your life, is that it‟s an anchor. It‟s
something that everybody knows about. Most educated people
know about the Dead Sea.
Ross: I would challenge you on that. Many people don‟t know the Dead
Sea. Hear me out. When I say “Dead Sea,” what comes to mind?
Ross: Very few people associate it with anything that has to do with
cosmetics, looking beautiful or feeling fresher. I understand that
from the inside of your company you‟re seeing it through that filter,
but the vast majority of people don‟t see that.
You‟re Israeli and you know that the Dead Sea is where a lot of
people go. I‟ve been there. The Dead Sea burned my ass because
I had hemorrhoids at the time. I jumped out. It was bad. That‟s too
much information. Don‟t go if you have something that itches.
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Do you understand what I‟m saying? I want to challenge you there.
Most people don‟t know those things or have those associations.
Yoav: In marketing, the way we see it is that our competitors are Chanel,
Estée Lauder and all kinds of companies who sell at a very high
price. What makes the difference between us and them? Why not
buy in a cheap place, like a $5 cream? Why pay more?
Ross: Here‟s the lack of clarity. If you were in a retail outlet where people
would have to say, “I‟m going in there to buy that product,” then you
may have something going, but that‟s not the kind of purchase
you‟re doing.
People are on the move, and they‟re going to buy based on impulse
and how well you sell in that moment, not the label of “Dead Sea
Minerals.” The important factor is how effectively you sell them by
appealing to what it really is all about, which is indulgence.
If you lead with the Dead Sea, you‟re interrupting the experience
and you‟re not matching most people‟s reality when they think of
the Dead Sea. I didn‟t say you should leave it out, but don‟t lean on
that and don‟t necessarily lead with it. Don‟t do the two L‟s, leading
and leaning.
Also, I have to ask you a practical question. Since it‟s not your
company, how much leeway do you have? I‟ve had people come to
me and say, “Can you design something for me?” I say, “Can you
use it?” They say, “No, we have to do what the corporation gives
us.” I say, “I can‟t help you.”
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Yoav: The structure we have is very different from the American corporate
structure. I‟m the area manager. I‟m a business partner in a way of
the location that I am in charge of.
Ross: How much leeway do you have in terms of what you tell the
salespeople to say?
It‟s the idea that everything, even the design, is all going in one
direction. I do agree that in the whole system, the cause of the act
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of buying, not everything but the big amount of things, is the
salesperson.
Ross: I also looked at this. There‟s far too much description that the
salesperson has to give. “This comes from the Dead Sea.” Then
you give a geography lesson. You narrate, “The Dead Sea is
located approximately _____. The Dead Sea has _____.”
No one wants to watch a travelogue like they did in the third grade
while they‟re going through the experience of having the cream
rubbed in. You need to drop a whole bunch of that.
Here‟s the key. When you give people facts, figures and data, it
goes to their left brain. You don‟t want to give them all those facts,
figures and data because they don‟t care. Later on, once you see
that they‟re engaged and they‟re enjoying it, you can throw some of
that in.
I‟ve been to these things, and to me they feel like an assault. The
people are so aggressive. It‟s assault by hot girls so I put up with it.
I bought one thing, like a soap. Then they tried to upsell me. I said,
“No, you‟re being too aggressive.”
Yoav: That‟s a good point that you raise. It‟s one of the biggest
challenges, and we‟re trying to change it.
It‟s become very common that a lot of big companies like Rosetta
Stone are going into the middle of the shopping mall. There is so
much competition with the other kiosks right now. So many people
are used to being stopped all the time. People became harder to
stop. When they are stopped, they‟re very closed.
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Ross: Let‟s come back to this question. Who is your ideal customer? Who
is the person who buys the most stuff and the biggest packages?
Ross: What is their average purchase? What is the average value of that
customer? These are the kinds of numbers you need to know.
Ross: Of those people you focus in on and stop, how many are actually
getting close to a $100 sale?
Yoav: Right now we have three, and we‟re going to open more.
Yoav: No.
Ross: I know an Israeli girl who worked there briefly doing some of this
stuff after her military service, just as you said.
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Of those three locations, can you tell me for each location who‟s the
top salesperson? Not right now, but could you go back into your
computer and pull up the name of the person?
Yoav: Forever?
Ross: What is your process for teaching these people how to do it?
Yoav: The process is when someone has arrived I work with him
personally, one-on-one, for a few days. I work with him on the
basics.
Yoav: We start the first day learning all the material. I go through the
material with him. Then I take him into the field and work with him.
The first day, I am next to him. If he needs assistance, I get
involved. In the next few days, I listen and give him remarks.
Ross: How effective would you say you are in that initial transmission?
First of all, on a scale of 1 to 100, how effective are you in
understanding what it is you do that makes what you do work?
Ross: I didn't say, “How good are you at doing it?” I said, “How good are
you at understanding what you do?” How good are you at
conveying that understanding to the employee? I‟m trying to see
what can be tweaked.
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Yoav: In conveying the information, I pass. I would say 80.
Ross: How good are you at conveying the skill set to the employee? In
other words, is your training procedure an effective procedure?
Yoav: It is. If I compare myself to other people that do the same thing, it‟s
usually more effective.
Ross: I have a hit for you. When you train people, when you talk to them,
do you tell them your own story? When I teach Speed Seduction®,
I really get people's attention. They have no doubt, usually, that I
can do this stuff.
I say, “Here‟s what I want to let you guys know. I started with no
skill with women, none whatsoever. I was the anti-skilled person.
Everything you see that I have been doing is discipline and training.
I had no natural talent at all.”
Do you tell them your own story about how you started not being
able to do any of this?
Ross: No, not when it‟s needed. From now on, you should always do it.
You should tell everyone.
What are the beliefs of the people coming in? A lot of those people
may have the belief that salespeople are born with it. Israelis are
pretty aggressive. Maybe they believe they can do anything. You
may not have that problem. I don‟t know, I‟m asking you.
Yoav: No. Usually when they come, they have the perception of they‟re
going to succeed.
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Ross: Very good then. I stand corrected.
Yoav: Not too many. They don‟t usually drop because they are not
successful. The reason people drop is because they come for a
short period of time.
Ross: That‟s just going to happen. You‟re not going to change that.
Ross: Here‟s the thing. I‟m walking through a shopping mall and some
beautiful Israeli girl assaults me. She says, “Let me show you
something, sir.” I feel assaulted.
How many people have been through this experience? Shout out
with some verbs. Don‟t agree or disagree with me just because I‟m
here. Just tell me what you‟re really thinking. How would you
describe that experience?
Participant: Hijacked
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Ross: Let‟s get back to your customer. If we segmented your revenue,
what percentage of your overall net revenue comes from women
who are 40 to 60?
Ross: I don‟t accept that answer as the permanent answer. I accept that
as the current answer. I agree with you. If there is any way you can
look at the demographics of the rest of that 50%, it may tell you
something.
Let‟s talk about that 50% of the people who are the women
between 40 and 60. You‟ve sold people like this, right? You‟ve sold
some stuff. Do they have a certain look in their eye or a certain
state that they are in that tells you those people are looking for
something or open to it?
Yoav: Definitely. It‟s kind of hard to say. I have never seen a specific
thing. Some people, like my business partner, can spot somebody
a mile away and say, “I‟m going to sell that person.”
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Ross: That skill needs to be taught. First and foremost, I have just
identified a skill that can be modeled, and it can be taught.
Part of doing intelligence and security is to spot the people who you
just have a sense that they‟re hinky. The cops use that term. Have
you ever heard that term? “He‟s just hinky.” Spot the hinky, the guy
with who, something is wrong.
That skill set of your partner, do you have that skill set?
Yoav: I have it as well as someone who has experience would have, but
not as sharp as his.
Ross: We need to, somehow, find a way to model your partner. I believe
you can't convey the entire skill set. You can convey the mindset
and the distinctions they look for. That would be huge.
The real thing is to have enough experience to spot the girls who
are looking to go home with someone that night. They ignore
everybody else. They use everyone else as a prop to get the
attention of the girl who wants to go home with them.
Ross: It had been a big challenge. Now you claim and embrace massive
success in the training..
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Where are you located?
Yoav: In Kansas.
Ross: If you can get him on the phone, I‟ll pick his brain. In fact, we can
do a video conference. I‟ll get the key distinctions and give them to
you so you can train your employees.
I would say to the employees, “A big part of doing this is being able
to spot who‟s the most likely customer so you don‟t waste your
time. I know you don‟t want to hear a lot of no‟s and I don‟t want
you to waste the time. One of the things we‟ll do is give you training
in spotting the people who are the best candidates.”
If you can really deliver that, that will improve employee morale and
your bottom line at the same time.
Yoav: There is one thing I would like to add. Another thing I think is one of
the things we can't ignore is we try to choose who to stop.
Basically, it‟s a luxury. It‟s only when you have the amount of
people that you can choose from. Sometimes it‟s just who is in the
shopping mall right now. That‟s whoever you have to stop. It‟s
something you have to do.
Ross: I agree. If it‟s busy and there are a lot of people, you want to pick
the right ones.
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Ross: One thing you mentioned is training your sales force to hear “no”
and if they are having a bad day, keep going. That, I can show you.
This has to do energetically with when you put something out there,
it‟s an expenditure of energy. What we can teach them to do is pull
the energy back. Just do a visualization and movement where
every time they extend the energy and it‟s over, they bring it back to
themselves. I‟ll also teach them a little exercise to ground back into
the present moment.
When people feel frustrated, they leave the present moment. They
go into the past and dwell on mistakes, or they go to the future and
fantasize about something else. You can teach them that little
grounding thing where they pull back up, and tell them if they do
that they will be able to handle any number of nos.
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It‟s a simple thing. I can show you that here, and then you can
show them. We‟ll give you the footage so you can show them.
If you‟re one of his employees watching this, the whole idea is this
little thing will show you how to reset yourself. Every person you
approach is the first person of the day. You‟re not hearing their no
through a filter of five no‟s from that day and 10 no‟s that you
anticipate.
When you invest energy in it, you don‟t want to put too much
enthusiasm. Too much enthusiasm will, first of all, block the other
person‟s experience. It also means you have invested so much in
the transaction, you might be pushy at the wrong time. You may
avoid closing because you put so much in. Now you have to make
it work.
The other thing I would say to employees who are watching this is
about the way in which you reset yourself so every person you
approach is the first person of the day, and the way in which you
manage your enthusiasm. Do you put too much enthusiasm into it?
How much is too much?
Ross: The metaphor I give you is this. Years ago one of my gorgeous
nephews came to me and said, “Uncle, I don‟t understand
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something. How come I like Katy so much, but Katy doesn‟t like
me?”
I said, “Imagine this. There‟s a big pool of water that you share.
That pool of water represents the energy available for liking
someone. You have a seed of liking Katy and Katy has a seed of
liking you. You‟re taking all that water away to water and grow your
seed of liking her, so there is none left for her to water hers. Stop
taking all of that.”
The metaphor here is if you pour too much enthusiasm into the
sale, you‟re interrupting the person‟s own natural procedure for
developing their own enthusiasm. If they say no then wow, you‟ve
really invested in it and now you‟re tired. Enthusiasm management
is a really big thing.
Here‟s what would help your employees. First of all, resetting after
each experience. Reset after a yes and reset after a no. Each
experience, each person is the first experience of the day. Then
manage their enthusiasm.
You‟re the best person to model that. You know how much
enthusiasm gets in the way and how much doesn‟t.
Yoav: For me, it‟s different. I do a lot of meditation and stuff. For me, it‟s
much easier to conceptualize this stuff. For them, it‟s more
extreme. If it goes well, it goes well.
Ross: That‟s what you have to stop them from doing. The people who
don‟t play on extremes are the ones who are going to do best.
They‟re not going to over-invest. They are also not going to be so
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pushed to the point where they interrupt people's comfort. That‟s all
I‟m saying.
If you said, “If you meditate 10 minutes a day, you‟ll triple your
sales,” they might do it. I don‟t know. Something has to be done to
teach them that part. I‟ll demonstrate on video what you do, the
resetting exercises. It‟s very simple.
Yoav: think the biggest thing I change is the vibe to relax and to help the
other person enjoy every moment.
Ross: Those are two pieces. Is this a sales script? Can I see it? They‟re
narrating way too much. Can I see what you tell people to say?
She‟s Israeli?
Yoav: Twenty-four.
Ross: Do they have to be Israeli girls? What kind of visa do they have?
Ross: What‟s the opening line, the first thing they say to get attention?
Ross: No, I don‟t like that. “Free sample.” What‟s the other? “Can I ask
you something?”
Yoav: That‟s after someone stops and actually takes the sample.
Ross: Do some people stop on their own without you stopping them?
Yoav: Of course. They see it‟s a sample and they want to take one. Not
too many, but still.
Participant: I don‟t have a big mic presentation type thing. When you mentioned
resetting before each prospect. I think that's really valuable. That‟s
something that would benefit me in sales a lot. How would you do
that?
Ross: It‟s very simple. Here‟s what I do. I got this from teaching guys who
think they are afraid of women. It‟s not fear, it‟s sexual excitement.
They approach a woman who is smoking hot. They‟re so vibrating
that their zipper is melting. That‟s bad for rapport.
It‟s a very simple thing to reset. It involves just a few pieces. First of
all, you feel the feeling of your feet in your shoes. Kinesthetically,
you‟re going to ground and feel your feet in your shoes. You‟re
going to bend your knees very slightly. When you bend your knees,
you exhale. Inhale as you straighten up.
The entire time, you want to keep your attention focused on the
feeling of your feet against the ground. The feeling of your feet
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pressing on the ground and the ground pressing back up on your
feet so it‟s grounding. I even make a little sound in my head.
You just bend slightly. It‟s not this like you‟re going to leap. It‟s just
very slight, and exhale.
Ross: Do it like three times. You‟re already bending too much. It‟s a very
slight bend. Take a long inhale. The key is to keep your attention
focused on the feeling in your feet. If you do that three times,
you‟ve reset yourself.
Ross: It just resets your mind. It clears your mind. It‟s like hitting the reset
button on the computer. I don‟t know exactly how it works, but it
does. Try it for yourself.
Participant: Yes.
Ross: It‟s a way to control their intensity, and also put them back in the
present moment. That‟s what they want to do. It‟s present-moment
selling. I like that. That‟s a whole new product line. Lisa, take a
note! “Welcome to Present-Moment Selling.”
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Ben, have a seat. Where‟s your opening? You say, “Can I ask you
a question?” or free sample?
Ross: I‟m thinking of the opening. I don‟t like “free sample.” I would say
this for the woman who‟s in her 40s through 60s. First of all, I don‟t
like the idea of the same opening for each person. There‟s
something wrong with that. You could design just three openings
that are designed for the type of person you spot. Are you following
what I‟m saying?
Ross: No, that‟s what you use to stop them. “You look like you‟ve earned
something that will feel really great. Check this out.”
Ben: There‟s one problem with it. It‟s not a problem about doing it. It‟s a
problem with the rules of the shopping mall.
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Ross: I didn‟t say that. Here‟s your cart. This stage is your cart. How far
from the cart can you go?
Ben: You can go two or three steps. It‟s about this much.
Ross: I‟m not saying to go any further, but instead of saying, “Free
sample,” say, “You look like you‟ve earned something wonderful for
yourself,” or something along the lines of indulgence. “You look like
you‟ve earned something wonderful,” or “You look like you deserve
something wonderful.” Say something like that.
Ben: We let them pick. We say, “Do you want a hand cream?” We give
them three or four choices. We have a hand cream, foot cream,
and body lotion.
Ross: You say, “You look like you deserve something wonderful for
yourself. Check out these. When you feel like you really just want to
relax and escape, do you prefer to make your skin glow, see how
beautiful your nails look, or relax in something that makes the tub
even better?”
Do you get it? This is capturing their imagination and emotions and
setting a mood rather than narrating about the Dead Sea.
Ben: You can do it with your own product. They‟re right now at the cart
and getting a demonstration, so you can touch them if you want.
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Ross: You have them here.
Ben: I have a question for you. At this point, what we need to do is stop
them. You don‟t always have time because a lot of people are in a
rush. They say, “No, I don‟t have time.” You have a few seconds to
bring them to the cart. How would you use this?
Ross: Wait a minute. You have the free samples away from the cart,
right?
Ben: Yes, it‟s away from the cart. I would stand over here.
Ross: You‟ve stopped them there with the free samples, right?
Ross: You stop them by saying that. Do you understand? What did I say?
“You look like you deserve something wonderful,” or “You look like
you‟ve earned something wonderful.” You have to say it with the
right tonality. Not “wonderful,” but “You look like you‟ve earned
something wonderful.”
Ross: Right. “You look like you‟ve earned something wonderful,” or “You
look like you deserve something wonderful.”
Then you ask the question, “When you really want to indulge
yourself, do you like the way your skin looks when it glows with
something fantastic? Do you like looking really beautiful? Do you
like the feeling of just soaking into something that just relaxes every
muscle?”
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Give some sensory description and look how their face nonverbally
responds. If they go like this when you‟re describing the nails, that‟s
the one you want to push forward. When you see the nonverbal
response like that one, that‟s the one you really want to push.
Ross: Do you have to sell them from the cart? Can‟t you sell them right
there if the samples are there?
Ben: To sell them, I have to bring them over to do the whole process and
selling sequence.
Ross: One idea I had is you can sell them right here and then complete
the transaction over here.
Ross: It‟s not about physically bringing them over to the cart yet. Hold on.
Hear me out. The first and most important step is getting them
actively involved and invested in their imagination. You have to do
that.
It‟s like, “I have to get the girl‟s phone number,” and I say, “What if
you get the girl dripping wet, begging for your zion?” That‟s Hebrew
for penis. You get her all hot and bothered for that. Then the phone
number becomes a logistical detail.
I agree. You have to get them over here. Let‟s say they‟re into this
and they‟re enjoying it. You say, “Let me show you how this really
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works over here.” You get them over there, and you‟re doing more
of the demonstration process.
Once you have them there, you can give them some of the details.
“As you can see, this comes from the Dead Sea. Most people don't
know it has the best concentrate.” But don‟t do too much of that. If
you do too much of it, they‟re going to feel like you‟re trying to sell
them.
What‟s your pattern for getting them to buy? What do you say to
introduce them?
Ross: In the point of the process where you‟re now closing them. What‟s
your closing process? What‟s the pitch that gets them to buy?
Ben: Let‟s say I show cosmetics to a lady. I would show her a few
products, like a serum, eye cream or gel. I would demo her and see
how she reacts. I‟d tell her what she‟s getting and why it‟s good for
her. Then I would ask her, “What did you like the most?” I try to
focus on one product.
Ben: I‟m telling her the quality and what it gives her. I tell her the prices
and why it‟s good for her. I give a few arguments why it‟s really
good and what the difference is. The arguments make the product
look even better. Then I‟d let her choose what she‟d use. If she
chooses, then she keeps going with me.
Ross: What words do you say to elicit the choosing? What do you say?
Do you say, “It‟s time to choose now, bitch!”? What do you say?
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Ben: “From everything I just showed you, which one did you like the
most? Which do you think you‟d use the most?”
Ross: I don‟t like that language. I‟d say, “Which one of these grabs you
most?” or “Which one of these can you see yourself using now?” I
really think that would be cool.
Instead of saying, “Which one did you like the most?” point to all of
them and say, “Which one can you really see yourself using?”
Some people just pick one, but other people think to themselves, “I
want them all.” Did you hear that? Change that piece of pattern.
“Which one of all of these?” Did you hear that? “Which one of all of
these can you see yourself using?” Give that slight head nod. Can
you get my head nod? “Which one of all of these can you see
yourself using?”
“I don‟t know which of all of these you want to take home,” is even
better. “I don‟t know which of all of these you can see yourself
having.” How do you like that? “I don‟t know which of all of these,”
meaning you‟re going to get all of them. Get it? “As you‟re enjoying
yourself,” or, “As you‟re enjoying these, I don‟t know which of all of
these you can see yourself having and really, truly enjoying.
“I want to let you know I hate it when salespeople,” point away from
yourself to another cart, “throw packages and all that stuff at you.
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I‟m just about being up front and talking to you respectfully as an
adult. Here are my prices. Here‟s what I have.” Do you understand?
Ross: You‟re saying, “As you‟re enjoying that, I don‟t know which of all of
these you can see yourself having,” or “you can see yourself
enjoying.” Do you get it? There‟s a command.
“What I did want to let you know is personally, I hate it when there
are those salespeople who try to give you all those packages and
offers. All I want to do as you think about taking these home is just
show you what my upfront prices are. Here‟s what it is. I want to
trust that you as an adult can make your own decision based on
facts that feel right for you.”
Do you get it? “I want to trust that you,” means you‟re trusting them.
“I want to trust that you as an adult can make your own decision
based on what seems right to you.” You like this. That will totally
dissipate this. All that language is there on this.
When you say, “Here‟s the package I have today. It‟s $59.95, but
just for you today it‟s $49.95,” how many people believe that? How
many people say, “Bullshit, jackoff!”?
Ben: Let me ask you a question. Would you do the same process, but
put the prices before what you said?
Ross: No. Capture their imagination and emotions. Have them imagine
enjoying the product.
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Ben: Then do I give the prices?
Ross: No, not if you present it the right way. Say, “As you‟re enjoying all of
this, I just want to let you know that personally I hate those
salespeople who try to throw packages and false discounts at you.
I‟d rather treat you as an adult and honestly say this is my
livelihood. Here are the prices for each of these things.”
Ben: To keep in the regular sequence I use, I say, “Which one do you
choose?” if she doesn‟t choose.
Ross: No, let them choose. You‟ve already said, “As you‟re enjoying
yourself, I don‟t know which of all of these.” You‟re giving the
suggestion by saying “all of these.”
“I don‟t know which of all of these you can picture having the most
or enjoying having the most.” Do you understand what I‟m saying?
They‟re either going to select one out or they‟ll select all of them.
“I just want to let you know that often this is the point where those
kinds of salespeople would try to give you all kinds of fake deals
and fake discounts. I don‟t do that. Here‟s what the prices are.
Here‟s what I sell this for.”
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I remember when I was a kid, I‟d get the prize for selling candy bars
door to door. I said, “Hello, sir. I‟m here to sell you something
today.” I thought I‟d start out by being totally up front and honest.
“In fact, what I‟m selling is overpriced compared to what you‟d buy
in the store, but it‟s for a really good cause, and here‟s why. This
chocolate bar for $1, you could probably buy for 50 cents, but
you‟re not just buying the candy bar. You‟re buying the sense that
you‟re helping a young entrepreneur develop a good work ethic.” I
knew that even then. I outsold everybody.
You want to point away from yourself. “I have to say that there are
those salespeople that try to give you phony packages. I‟d rather
trust that as an adult…,” meaning you‟re the adult or they‟re the
adult. Do you see the scope ambiguity?
“I‟d rather trust that as an adult,” not “I‟d rather trust that you as an
adult.” Say, “I‟d rather trust that as an adult, it‟s just a better idea to
show up front what my prices are.” Did you get the language there?
Ben: I got the language, but I have a question. The idea of using the
word “salesperson,” you don‟t think is problematic?
Ross: No, I don‟t think so at all. They know you‟re selling. They see the
cash register and the card machine. They get it. You can go stand
in front of it so they don‟t see it, but do you get what I‟m saying?
“At this point I have to tell you that I hate it when those kinds of
salespeople,” point away from yourself to the other carts, “will come
up with all sorts of phony discount packages. I‟d rather trust as an
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adult,” or “I‟d rather trust as someone who‟s all grown up,” but
watch that one.
You pace it. You say, “I have to tell you, I hate the kind of
salespeople who give you phony packages like, „Today, we‟re
going to take $10 off‟ because we both know it‟s nonsense. But I‟d
rather trust as an adult that you can make a decision based on
what you really want. Understanding that this is how I earn my
living, here are my prices.” Do something along those lines.
Would you not feel respected at that point? They‟ll think, “Wait a
minute. This person isn‟t trying to snow me. They‟re acknowledging
that there are obnoxious people salespeople. They‟re showing and
telling me that they‟re not going to do that. They‟re going to trust me
as an adult.”
Ultimately, that‟s what you should do. People will feel respected.
Paradoxically, they will buy more. Instead of pressuring them,
you‟re subtly leading their imagination and their emotions.
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I would feel so much more respected if they said, “Look. I really
hate those salespeople who do phony packages and pressure. I‟d
rather trust as an adult that you‟re someone who can make your
own decision if you‟re just given the facts. This is how I earn my
living, so I just want to show you the prices for these, what the
investment is.”
Try it. If you try this consistently for a week, the worst that can
happen is that it doesn‟t work, but I think it will.
Participant: Could I make a suggestion? I think that one thing you need to look
at if you haven‟t studied SpeedSeduction® is that this is a
seduction. You‟re live and in the moment with somebody.
Ross hasn‟t really talked about it this weekend, but you need to
train your salespeople to use proper tonality and slow down. You
also need to do studies of the malls you‟re in and the demographic
you‟re hoping to reach, maybe staff it with different people at
different hours and have them dress appropriately.
Ross: Let‟s go back to your first point which I think is beautiful. You also
need to train your people to not speak too quickly. Speak at a pace
that gives people time to develop their hypnotic responses. If you
see your employees going really fast, slow them down.
Participant: When you speak fast like that, you actually come across as a
salesperson. They‟re not gaining rapport with you. They‟re just
there to make the quick sale and you‟re gone. When you really
demonstrate and respond to them, people are much more open to
actually purchasing.
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Ross: If you do this right, you don‟t even have to give the geographic
lecture about the Dead Sea. Leave it out. They won‟t care. You
could call it Buckwheat‟s Ass Farm. “Hi, I here from Buckwheat‟s
Ass Farm Salt Minerals.” You lead them through the process in a
way that engages their imagination and uses scope ambiguity.
Remember, scope ambiguity allows you to slide things in. “I‟d rather
trust as an adult that you can make your own decisions in an
honest way.” Do you mean that you trust them or you trust
yourself? What decisions? Are you being honest, or are they being
honest?
Ross: Right. Say that this is how you earn your living, nothing comes for
free and here are the honest prices today. The presupposition is
that you‟re being honest with them and there is no negotiation. I
would say that.
Mike: I would also just suggest that you not set this up as high pressure.
That turns a lot of people off and you start getting desperate.
If they‟re not going to buy right now, set it up with something like,
“Thank you for sharing.” Notice I didn‟t say who is sharing their time
with what. “Please feel free to come back anytime you want to
experience more pleasure.”
I‟ve often found that as people walk around the mall, with each step
they take, they envision the pleasure they can receive from this
product and they come back. You say, “You‟re more than welcome
to come back any time. Thank you.”
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Ross: That‟s fantastic! Pace the fact that half of them or more are going to
walk away. That was great process language. Thank you, Mike.
All this stuff about the Dead Sea minerals, if they ask you where it
comes from, tell them briefly, and then get off and get right back to
the central, imaginative part of the experience.
Ross: Don‟t narrate with this. See how much you can subtract out of the
narration because the narration takes away from the experience.
You‟re making it about narrating rather than guiding the experience
that you help them to have. It‟s a big distinction. I know you‟re going
to do really well.
Participant: I‟m getting a visual sense here because you‟re going into it face to
face. Can you give us a live visual example of how you could steal
their anchors and do the filter to the products?
Ross: I don‟t think he needs to do that here, and there may not be enough
response written to do this here. Let‟s not layer that in at the
moment.
Throughout this process, they don‟t feel that you‟re trying to pull a
fast one on them. They never feel pressured. Mike just dumped
$10,000 a month into your lap with that. Mike, that was brilliant.
Thank the Ice Man for us. I would really like to see him or talk to
him on the phone or whatever. He‟s a good guy. We know some
interesting characters.
Ross: Experiment with that language. I may be off with it, but you get the
general idea.
Participant: The second one was in guarding the reset. It‟s not like running,
doing a lift or something visceral. It‟s subtle.
Practice them out loud, and also analyze how they work and what
principles are at play. Tie in the memorization with your
understanding of the concepts, and the memorization will work.
Rehearse out loud with the body movements you would make. You
are speaking it to make it more real and feeling it through the
kinesthetics of your body.
Mike: You work your butt off, and you have this customer. What do you
do after the sale to sell them more?
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Yoav: We have a system that once somebody took a product at the full
price, depending on what product they took, we show them a
variation of it.
Ross: That‟s not what he means. He means after they‟ve gone home. Do
you have contact information? Do you follow up with a postcard or
letter?
Yoav: It‟s kind of hard in this business to do a follow up, and we don‟t do
anything like that.
Ross: How?
Mike: First, for every person who purchases from you, get their name,
address where they live and all that stuff. This is really critical.
Ross: With all due respect, I understand where you‟re going, but it may
get in the way of the cash purchase. When they‟re buying cash, you
don‟t do this because they‟re not going to want to fill that all out. I
completely understand where you‟re going.
Yoav: This kind of sale is very dynamic and quick. The people who were
in the middle of walking just want to keep walking.
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Mike: I would get a lot of them still. I would probably close by saying, “I
can get you on our list. That way if we have any specials or other
opportunities, I could just send you something. Would you be
interested in that?”
Ross: He‟s right, but here‟s how I would do it. After they‟ve completed the
purchase, they‟ve given you the money and are walking away, I
would say, “By the way, if you want to be kept informed when we
have new products that we‟re introducing, you can come back, or if
you‟d like, you can get on our mailing list.” I would do it only after
the sale is over.
Ross: I would not say, “Would you like to?” I would say, “By the way, you
can try it.”
Mike: You absolutely want to do this after the sale. You don‟t want to
interrupt the sale process at all. I agree with you. Get the money.
Now that you have the money, get the address because here‟s
what‟s going to happen.
Ross: Hold on. I want you to get that ambiguity. Those ambiguities
isolated from the whole thing don‟t work. Instead, you‟re using the
scoped ambiguity to slide in the presupposition that it‟s about trust.
You‟re setting it up that they don‟t view it as a sale, but rather as an
indulgence. You‟re setting it up so that when you close them, you‟re
not going to do the stuff that other people do.
Instead, you take all of that stuff, all the negativity, and you spatially
anchor it to other people who are in the mall. Use what‟s in the
context in your favor. In the context in which you do this, you said
there are all these other carts around. All these other people are
most likely using the high-pressure stuff correct?
Yoav: Yes.
Ross: Personally, I hate those salespeople who offer all these dumb
packages. “I‟d rather trust as an adult that you can make a decision
for your own reasons.,” or “You can find yourself making a decision
for your own reasons,” and nod your head.
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Everything is working together. Then what I‟m saying is that as part
of the process of that, you throw in the ambiguities, like “Come by
the cart,” “By the way” or “One of the by-products of using this
today.”
When we used to sell stuff, we used to haul boxes full of stuff when
I would do seminars. I used to say that, and people would run to the
back of the room. My partner at the time didn‟t want to be bothered
with bringing products. We lost about 30% of our seminar revenue
because he didn‟t want to be bothered with it. Subsequently, he
ceased to be my business partner.
Mike: Once I capture either their email or mailing address, and I would
rather have their mailing address, I would then put them into a
customer relation management (CRM) program. The one I use is
Infusionsoft.
Ross: Technically speaking, if you‟re doing credit cards, you have to get
an address even though you‟re not mailing it to them. When they fill
out the credit card form, don‟t they have to fill out their name and
address?
Ross: Be very careful how you do this process. I would do it after they
have bought and are walking away from the cart. I would say, “By
the way, just to let you know, from time to time we do have
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specials. If you‟d like to stay in touch by mail, I can offer you this,
and you can fill in your address.” Don‟t ask for it.
Ross: I‟m saying don‟t ask for it. Don‟t say, “Would you like to be on the
mailing list?” That triggers the automatic no response.
Ross: He and his partner are able to spot those people 100 feet away.
Going in, you teach your employees to get that. You not only get it
in the back end when you sift the data, but you get it in the front
end by calibrating people.
Mike: You want to have a little newsletter that you send out to keep in
touch once a month. I would have a customer profile. It‟s really just
a glorified testimonial on how they use their products and how
wonderful people tell them they look.
Beyond that, you want to send them offers. Split your list out with
the people who spend the most money with you.
Ross: With all due respect, Mike, now you‟re getting into a whole detailed
process. Wrap it up.
Mike: You definitely want to get the list, send them stuff and make them
offers because there‟s a lot of money on the table. Also, when they
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leave, give them samples and what‟s called a “bounce back,” a little
coupon to bring them back to the cart at a later date.
Ross: Here‟s what you do. Don‟t hand it to them. You include it in the
package so they find it when they open it up.
Participant: After they‟ve made a purchase and re walking away, you can say,
for example, “On your birthday, you can come in and we‟ll give you
a gift.”
Ross: It‟s a possibility. What I don‟t want to do is distract you away from
the main pieces.
Ross: All the languaging is here in the video, but I want to make it very
clear. Think of the tools I taught you about scope ambiguity.
When you introduce that scope ambiguity, where they don‟t know
who‟s being referred to, they will accept the frame that this is not a
high-pressure sell, but that you‟re offering them an opportunity to
indulge themselves in something they want to do anyway.
Avoid that closing process where you throw in all the bad. When
you throw all these things that they‟re used to, it‟s firing off negative
anchors. If you avoid that and spatially anchor it out to other
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people, then you dissipate that. Then they can throw all of those
feelings over there.
It‟s like doing a boyfriend destroyer, I take all the negativity, anchor
it to the boyfriend and push it away from me.
Ross: It‟s classy and enjoyable. They walk away feeling, “I didn‟t just get
sold.” They feel, “I just did something really great for myself ha, ha,
ha. Wait until I tell my girlfriends.”
I‟m excited about this because I want you to see how all of this ties
together with all of the tools I was showing you this morning. It all
works together.
Yoav: Of course, it‟s all about language. What about the structure of the
pitch for the main product I showed you for the nails?
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Ross: Here‟s the wrong piece. I apologize. It‟s not wrong. The sequence
is out of order.
Yoav: At the same time, it‟s everything you read in the materials. It‟s not
like before. It‟s during the demonstration.
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Ross: I‟d say a couple of things. First of all, calibrate. Are they following
you or not following you? From time to time say, “How does that
feel?” or “Doesn‟t that feel great?” or “Are you enjoying this?”
Yoav: Why?
Ross: They‟re not enjoying it. Maybe it‟s not the product they want. The
other thing you have to be really careful about is if you go up to
them with a nail product, what if they really want the skin cream and
you‟re interrupting it?
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Ross: I‟m all for trance, believe me.
Yoav: Sometimes you‟d take a big motorcycle guy with a beard who has
tattoos, the last person who would buy something for nails, and you
would think he‟d slap you in the face in a second. But when you go
through the process, suddenly he reacts totally different from the
way you thought. He says, “Wow! I like it. I‟ll take it for myself.”
Yoav: Most of the weird people you think wouldn‟t buy, do buy. It‟s hard to
explain.
Ross: Hold on. Sit back down, because you gave me a gem there. Say
that again.
Yoav: Most of the weird people that you don‟t expect to buy, will buy it.
Ross: Most of the weird people that you don‟t expect would buy, would
buy.
Yoav: Yes, people that pass next to you and you say, “I would never even
try to sell them,” just for fun, I would.
Ross: That‟s why you‟re really good at doing this. Take that mindset and
train your employees to challenge themselves. That‟s the least
likely person to do it. Can we get that person to do it?
Part of this is modeling your skill set. It‟s not just telling people what
to say and educating them as to how it works. It‟s modeling your
skill set. If I think, “There‟s no way that would work on that person,”
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that‟s why I‟m going to try it. I‟m going to get excited about the
challenge.
You could set up a test. Part of your challenge is screening for the
right employees, right? You could screen to see if your employees
have that aspect to them. I don‟t know how you would set that test
up, but you could preselect for people who have that orientation.
Yoav: Maybe give them a kick. With me, it‟s like somebody would tell me,
“I‟ll give you anything if you sell this person.” I would say, “No
problem.” Something like that, you mean?
Ross: Some kind of challenge. I don‟t know. I have to think that one
through. It‟s part of the follow-up process. Lisa, give me the
assignment to think that through and remind me. What was your
contribution?
Lisa: You come up to me from the cart. You have a line of face products.
I walk over. If I were to buy one product or more, in the back of my
mind, the decision would be, “How would I buy more?” If it‟s face
products and works, I want to buy more. Do I have to find this cart
again, figure out which store it‟s in front of?
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a card? Do you offer them a website and say, “We‟re online. We
have all of this. If you want to order more, this is what you can do”?
Ross: It‟s very simple to set it up. You say, “Here‟s my card for when you
want to come back for more.” Then just nod your head. Since
you‟re in such rapport with them, they‟ll say, “Yes, I want to come
back for more.”
I would say to myself, “Let‟s see how far we can push this. I want
them to call me and ask me out. How can I set that up?” Does
someone have a business card I can borrow? I almost thought of it
as a magic trick. I‟ll show you this. This is wicked. This is really a
sick trick, but I want to give you your money‟s worth. She‟s right,
but there‟s a way to do it.
I would say, “At some point in the coming week, when you find
yourself thinking about this conversation, you‟ll think to yourself, „I
want to talk to that guy again. I have to call him.‟ You‟ll look for my
number right here on this card.”
Their eyes would go glassy, their pupils would dilate, and they‟d
take the card. If their pupils didn‟t dilate, I knew they wouldn‟t call
me.
Here‟s the weird thing, and you guys might have an inside on this
as hypnotists. If their pupils did dilate, half of them would call that
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night, but the other half would call within 48 to 72 hours. If it went
beyond 72 hours, they never called me.
I just think some people need more time to process the suggestion.
What do you think is going on there?
Ross: I think their processing time takes time to float back up into their
conscious mind. I would say, “At some point in the coming week
when you find yourself really being glad you did this, you might
want to come back again.” Then hand them the card.
“At some point in the coming week when you find yourself wanting
more of this,” what is the "this" they‟re going to want more of? That
makes it ambiguous, so they have to process it.
“At some point in the coming week when you find yourself wanting
more of this, you can look for us right here in this card.” Then let
them take it from you.
Mike: Change your paradigm. Everything you‟ve talked about is, “How do
I sell this person?” Everything that everyone else here has told you
is, “How do you put a smile on this person‟s face instantly and
make them feel so good about what you‟re doing and your
interaction with them that they want to buy?” You‟re encouraging
them to come back and making it easy for them to buy in the future.
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instantly that they come back and buy from you?” That‟s the
paradigm shift you have to make.
Ross: I‟d say that half of selling effectively is avoiding and extinguishing
the anchors that everyone else uses. If you can take the anchors
that people are used to experiencing in that area of life and don‟t do
them, that alone will double your sales.
Ross: In the area of beautiful women, if you avoid doing what all the
losers do, you have your foot in the door. Don‟t stare at their boobs,
tell them how beautiful they are 100 times, or ask them out
immediately before you even talk to them.
Just by not doing what every other jerk does, just by avoiding the
bad stuff, you‟re already halfway in the door.
It‟s even more so with selling. If you avoid firing off the anchors that
make people feel pressured or ripped off, then you‟re already
halfway in the door.
Ross: The problem with all of this is that, up until now because you‟re no
longer going to use that anymore, you were firing off a lot of the
anchors that say, “I‟m selling you. You‟re being tricked or
pressured.”
Here‟s the paradox. I‟ve been stopped at these things. The girls are
really hot, but they make me feel pressured. Even I don‟t want to
mess around with a hot chick so you know you‟re off track.
Yoav: No, increasing the individual person. Let‟s say I have a customer. I
would like to make him ready for another product.
Ross: I showed you that. Hold on, I‟m going to get there. Remember, I
said, “I don‟t know which of all of these,” and the suggestion is to
take all of them.
Yoav: Let‟s say he passed through this point. He chose one product. He
has a certain amount he would like to spend. He says, “I‟ll take
this.” We go to the register. How would I increase the sale from $70
to $300? How would I increase it for the individual person?
Yoav: But I want to increase it. There is no limit. If somebody has $600 in
the register, I want them to buy $1,200.
Ross: You think like an Israeli, and I admire that. I have to honestly really
think about that. You‟re saying they‟re already into it.
Yoav: I want to increase the sales as much as I can until the person tells
me, “I‟m all set.”
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Ross: I would avoid that. I would really avoid that. We‟re doing everything
we can to avoid firing off those anchors, and then at the last minute
when they‟re taking out the cash you‟re going to fire off the
anchors.
The equivalent is that you have the girl. She‟s back at your place.
She can‟t wait to get naked. Then you do something totally stupid
like say, “I‟m in love with you.” By the way, once I get with a girl, I
never leave her alone. Exit stage left.
Yoav: Let me specify what I mean. When you go to the cinema, they tell
you, “If you spend 20 cents more, instead of a small sized Coke,
you‟ll get a medium size.” I‟m talking about something like that.
Yoav: You already have this and this. You like everything I showed you.
The equivalent would be if you go to the cinema, and you only pay
your admission ticket after you‟ve bought your stuff. You buy the
admission ticket first. Then you buy your other stuff. They haven‟t
even bought the admission ticket because you haven‟t really gotten
the money and closed the sale.
Yoav: I would ask them to pay. I would say, “How would you like to pay?”
Then I would do it.
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Ross: I would say, “Oh, by the way.”
Ross: “By the way, if there‟s something else you‟d like today, I do have
this. I don‟t want to push it on you.” Then pull it away from them.
Say, “If there‟s something else you‟d like today,” then point at it, “I
do have this” Then pull it away. If they reach for it, sell it to them. If
they don‟t, they‟re done.
Say, “Oh, by the way, I do have something else. It‟s this much, if
you‟d like this today.” Then see what they do. Twenty percent of the
people in the population are highly suggestible people. What
percentage of the general population are somnambulistic subjects?
They‟ll make anything real.
Ross: Twenty percent of the time, you‟re going to be dealing with a highly
suggestible, somnambulistic subject who will accept any reality,
especially at the end of a long induction where they‟ve been
following you all along. Say, “By the way, I do have this.” Then take
it away. “It‟s a fantastic thing, just in case you want to treat yourself
to something even better.”
Don‟t dismiss what I just told you. Do you understand the structure
of what I just told you?
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potential because if does enjoy it and shows interest, wouldn‟t it be
better to close to show him one or two things then show him a
package that contains everything and more to show him a good
deal?
Lisa: Ross talked earlier about that other guy who notices something in
people that makes them want to come over. Before you make that
offer, see if they‟re eager. Are they looking around more? Are they
pausing before they get to the cash register? They‟re looking to
possibly buy more. Pick up on that if they‟re interested. Is it part of
a package? But don‟t do it to everybody.
Ross: That‟s why she‟s on my team. What she‟s saying is that in the same
way your friend or colleague can calibrate people who are going to
buy today, maybe you can learn to calibrate to those people who
are going to buy more at the last minute. Only make that offer to
them.
Ross: Before we get to the specific objections you encounter, I talked this
morning about pseudo-orientation in time. As a persuader, I never
want my client or subject to ever have to make a decision. Instead,
I want to take them to the point in time after they‟ve already made
the decision and are now enjoying the benefits of having made it. If
you do this properly, you are going to cut your objections in half.
That said, tell me what the three most common objections are. I‟ll
bet one is, “I don‟t need it,” and the other is, “It‟s too expensive.”
Participant: “I don‟t have money,” “I can‟t afford it,” “I‟m not interested,” “I
already have it,” or, “I already have somebody else do my nails.”
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Ross: Let‟s back up. “I can‟t afford it.” “I‟m not interested.” “I already have
it.” These deal with the overall subject of people having autopilot
responses. Have you studied my Speed Seduction® stuff?
Ross: Those of you who have studied it know that one of the things I
teach is that I seldom take a woman‟s first response as written in
stone. It‟s almost always just a reflection of what she‟s thinking,
feeling or believing in that moment, and it‟s almost always subject
to change.
Some of these responses are autopilot, and some of them are real.
If you really don‟t need it and truly don‟t want it, you‟re not going to
sell them.
If they say, “I don‟t need it,” you say, “Of course. The point of
indulgence that makes you feel great is not that you need it but that
you deserve it.” You can reframe it. Then move on with it. Reframe
the meaning.
“I can‟t afford it.” The problem is that this sounds too slick. You can
joke around. “Do you have a boyfriend who will buy it?” I would say,
“I‟ve often thought that myself, right prior to doing something nice
for yourself.” Do you hear the I/you shift? We‟re incorporating
everything we learned this morning.
“I‟ve often thought that myself, right prior to realizing I really want to
do something nice for yourself.” Try that. Then move on.
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Ross: The motivation is that they‟re going to make a lot of money when
you teach them this sales process because it‟s a damn good one.
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Workshop Candidate: Paul
Ross: I actually have experience with this. My sister has timeshares all
over. If I want to go somewhere, I check with my sister to see if I
can use her timeshare.
Paul: This would work for you because it takes all of the data and
manages it so you don‟t have to do your own calculations or keep
track. It keeps track of basically all of your expenses and income.
Ross: Does it tell you which units are available for rental and what you
would rent them out at?
Paul: Yes. It tells you when people move in and move out and at what
prices and tax calculations.
Ross: What does the package cost? When it comes to a really powerful,
important package…
Paul: Bonersus?
Paul: The average price would be around $600 and up, depending on the
number of units.
Ross: In this market, are you aware of what those things tend to sell for?
Ross: I‟m not sure I understand. You have a basic structure that you build.
Then you go in and say, “Based on this, we can shift it around.”
Paul: Big property owners, the companies that own more than 10, 20 or
100 buildings or units.
Paul: How do I get to the people who make the decision in the company?
Ross: The first step obviously is identifying who you want to sell it to. Can
you identify those people and companies?
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Paul: Yes, we have a list.
Ross: You already have a process and a strategy. Do they have some
kind of an internal sales team or buyers who are responsible for
looking for this kind of stuff?
Ross: Do you want to do this, or do you want to hire people to do this for
you?
Ross: Does anybody have any contributions or input? Big Mike, I know
what you‟re going to say. “Send them the FedEx package.” Before
you go there, what would be his procedure for identifying who the
right person is to send that to? Address that, then hit him with the
FedEx thing.
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Mike: Is this a Canadian-only product or a U.S. product as well?
Mike: Canada is a small market. I used to live up there for nine years. I
think you want to come down and sell down here.
Mike: I don‟t know who the list broker is up in Canada. I could call some
people who could probably give it to me very quickly.
Ross: You get your loving where you can find it.
Mike: A list broker will identify them. There are also trade publications for
these guys. I guarantee there are.
What you‟re looking at is a basic lead gen challenge. It‟s not that
difficult. You would get a trade publication and run ads.
Ross: Where would he find the trade publications? How would he identify
them?
Mike: SRDS, Standard Rate & Data Service. You go to the library. The
set costs anywhere from $600 to $3,200. Don‟t bother buying it.
Just go to the library.
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Mike: I would look under “property management.” That would be my start.
You‟ll figure it out fast. They list all of the different lists that are
available.
You‟re trying to get to the gatekeeper. There are two ways to get to
the gatekeeper. One way is white paper. It‟s a report. What do you
call your software?
Ross: Let‟s back up a minute. I agree with you, but you‟re jumping ahead,
so let‟s slow down and back up a step. Let me translate what he‟s
saying at a speed, velocity and volume where you can get clear on
it.
The first step is to find the entities that you want to get in contact
with. You named two resources to go to.
Mike: Standard Rate & Data Services, SRDS. Data Warehouse, a list
broker.
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Mike: Property owners.
Ross: This is an idea! I‟m getting a hit. This could be completely wrong,
but my intuition says this. My parents, among other things, did real
estate sales. My dad was a real estate broker. Maybe if you got in
touch with realtors who do commercial property, they could in turn
help you identify those people.
Mike: That would be another way to get in through the back door.
Ross: I always like to get through the back door rather than the front door.
Paul: That could be a way, but what would be their motivation? Should I
offer them a commission?
Ross: This is just an idea. I‟ve never thought about this before. They
already know these people so they could even bundle the software
as part of the deal. Sell the software to them. Then they offer the
software as a bonus to people to close the deal.
Mike: Then you would have a special report, and that would send them to
calling you. Give them just one thing to do. Don‟t give them a bunch
of different ways of contacting you. Just rail them on one so they
don‟t make a lot of choices.
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The other thing would be a free trial. You would have a website and
a free trial. Salesforce is notorious for this. They say, “You can use
this for 30 days.” You enter all your data in there, and it starts
working. You think, “Shit! I‟ve got all my data in there now, and it‟s
working. I kind of like it. Let‟s buy into it.”
Ross: That‟s a good idea. Is there a way to take the software and rig it so
you can lock out people at 30 days if they haven‟t paid?
Mike: You should host it. I‟ll tell you why, pain of disconnect.
Here‟s the issue. Now you have 200 or 300 of these out, and you
make an app change. You‟ve got to send them all the updates.
When it‟s hosted, all 200 get it immediately as you‟re doing it.
The biggest thing is the pain of disconnect. They‟ve got to pay you
that monthly continuity on that charge. I would just say, “It‟s $39 a
month,” or $200 or $300 up front and so much a month.
You want that monthly continuity, and you want it to run forever.
Then you don‟t have all these problems with all the little things you
have to do with updates. You get them to go onto your system and
use it for a 30-day or 60-day free trial. They get to like it, and boom.
Ross: He just gave you a really good piece, which is the structure of the
revenue model. You can do everything else correctly, but if your
revenue model doesn‟t work, you‟re up S Creek without a paddle.
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Thank you! You‟ve just won free admission to any Speed
Seduction® seminar for the next two years, 2009 and 2010.
Mike: I appreciate that. I‟m a married man, but maybe I‟ll get some
mistresses.
Mike: You‟ll be hosting a service. That way, it‟s yours. You own it. That
would be it.
Then you go back to the lead gen. You‟ve got to get them in there.
If you have a mailing list, you can just mail them a sales letter. Get
somebody to write it. Say, “Come here for 60 days,” and give them
normal offers. Get them in there. Definitely do the U.S..
Ross: I like how you languaged that. Very good. I‟m not making fun of
you. You said, “The challenge I had before,” presupposing it‟s no
longer there.
Ross: It‟s not. Can you see it? If you try to see it, it just slips away. You
did that very well. Go ahead.
Paul: The challenge is why should they even consider the software?
They‟re managing okay by themselves right now, or they were up
until this point.
Paul: Save time, save cost, and all of that boring stuff.
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Ross: It‟s not boring. Saving time and money is not boring.
Ross: I don‟t know this field, but I can tell you this. Remember what I said:
fears, failures, frustration, desire, dreams, hopes wishes.
You have to ask yourself, “What are the fears, failures and
frustrations of these people? What are their wants, needs, desires,
dreams and wishes?” I don‟t know that. I don‟t know this field.
That‟s for you to identify. I‟m not asking you to do it here. We have
a month of follow-up call support.
Mike: Sure. Anything that has units and a monthly revenue or monthly
expense.
Ross: The other thing you have to ask is do you want to do the actual
selling, or do you want to find someone who is already good at
doing that?
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It‟s a profoundly smart point to make.
Lisa: I have done some research in real estate. One of the biggest
reasons why people buy rental property is for monthly cash flow.
What you want to say is, “How would you like to increase your
monthly cash flow? I can do that for you. With the time you‟ve
saved, you can go out and buy more properties and make even
more money.” Cash flow is superbly top.
Ross: I just had an idea. Have you seen these guys who sell how to buy
foreclosures? I know there is someone that has a program, “How to
Make Millions in Commercial Real Estate.”
You might find those guys and see if you can have them pre-
purchase the software and they bundle it in as a bonus or offer it in
the back of the room. The people who are doing those seminars
are raking in the bucks. Have you seen any of those?
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Adam: There is a book by J. Scott Scheel, Colossal Cash in Commercial
Property.
Ross: Here‟s what you do. Buy his book and CD, because I‟ll bet you
dollars to dildos that he‟s got something in the back that offers a
seminar.
Participant: can get on his mailing list and see if he‟ll do a joint venture with you
or an endorsed mailing.
Ross: That‟s a really good idea. We‟re going to save you years of work
here.
Participant: I have one other quick observation. This is just off the cuff. I may be
going slightly off tangent. If you want to do coaching for people who
want to sell more real estate or you want to have a seminar, get this
book, which you should probably read anyway. It‟s Think BIG and
Kick Ass in Business and Life by Donald Trump and Bill Zanker.
Look in the back. They do this brilliantly. Read the last few pages of
the book. You‟ll see how they set up for coaching and consulting
and seminars. It‟s brilliant how they do it.
Participant: It seems like Big Mike and I have been in the business world for a
while and always have something to say. Just to clarify something,
there will absolutely be lists available.
You can just google and find the trade magazines for almost any
industry, certainly for apartment management. I happen to be in
hotel management. We own and operate mostly Marriott hotels.
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Participant: We‟re talking about what, in the hotel environment, you‟d call a
property management system that tracks everything that goes on in
the hotel in terms of revenues, not necessarily expenses.
Big Mike brought up something key that you want to consider. You
do want to have a hosted site rather than selling them a product
that you ship them the software. The reason is not only the difficulty
of un-engaging, but also that you can upgrade continually.
Paul: I actually had a challenge with this before with one company that is
currently using the installed version on their systems. They didn‟t
want to put the data up on the server.
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basement and live on junk food,” or something like that. I‟m sure
the nerds can do anything.
Participant: Salesforce does that. Most of the top Fortune 100 companies use
Salesforce and have their entire customer lists there.
Participant: I think you can overcome that relatively easily. People know that
there are safeguards built in.
Ross: Do you know how you find out how to handle that? Go on Mozy.
Everything on my Mac is backed up on to Mozy. What‟s the other
backup service for the PC, where you backup all of your files
online?
Ross: Look and see how they guarantee your files are going to be secure.
They talk about how it‟s encrypted and no one can get in.
Participant: Actually, that‟s a sales point. It‟s always backed up, like
www.Salesforce.com.
Participant: It‟s a sales management tool. This would possibly be great for you
Ross. We put all of our salespeople and leads in it. It takes them
through the process.
Participant: They‟re a CRM program, but they‟re missing a few things that I like.
I have two programs.
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Ross: I would say, for you, this is not a persuasion issue. This is a
marketing structure issue. I‟m going to give you a piece of advice.
It‟s the single best thing you can do, whether you do it or not I can‟t
control.
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Ross: It might be a better idea. If you sell it and get a big fat fee, then
you‟re done, rather than trying to do the marketing and the sales
force. Is it saleable?
Paul: Yes.
Ross: How would he go about finding people to sell the software to? “You
own it now. I‟ve sold it to you. Do what you want with it.” How do
you find people to buy the software, not as an end user but they
have the rights now and can go sell it to whoever they want.
Participant: I‟d think you‟d have to have it online for a while and have it proven
that it‟s gaining a little bit of momentum.
Ross: I would do that. It‟s like an author. Does he want to sell the rights to
the book, or does he want to go into the publishing business? If I
were you I would start out like he said, make it a going concern and
then see if you can sell it. Who bought Facebook?
Participant: It was MySpace, not Facebook, and it was Time Warner [sic]
(NewsCorp bought MySpace).
Ross: $600 million is a nice payday. I‟m not suggesting that you get that.
For $600 million, I would retire from teaching. I‟d feel awful about it
and all those poor guys who can‟t use my system anymore. Sorry
boys, but for $600 million, I think I could take a couple of years off.
Here‟s the thing I want to warn you about. Commercial real estate
is about to collapse. It‟s the next big bubble that‟s going to go pop. I
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don‟t know how that‟s going to affect the sales environment for
what you have.
Builders are losing their shirts. They‟re leveraged into things. Mark
my words, in 90 days it‟s going to go right into the toilet. If
commercial real estate folds completely, loses half of its value and
people are going out of business, is this going to be a good thing or
a bad thing to sell? I don‟t know how that would affect it.
Lisa: What he said about the storage units, that‟s still growing. Most
people, even if they have to leave someplace, they have to store
their property somewhere.
Charles: People I know in the storage business are now buying houses
because they‟re so cheap. They‟re buying brand-new houses for
$40,000 to $60,000.
Ross: Look at the realistic conditions of your market. Someone said about
the economy, “Things get worse just before they get even worse.”
That $1.7 trillion that was injected into the economy, have you seen
the bailout? Did you Estonians get that $1.7 trillion? You squirreled
it back in Estonia. Have you seen any of it?
They way it works is the people who are in the spigot and get the
money first get the use of it. When it gets into the system, the
inflation is going to go through the roof and more people are going
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to lose everything. I‟m here to tell you, it may be, if you could turn
around and target the storage business. Whose idea was that?
Paul: Charles‟s.
Ross: You‟re a smart guy. I like you. That may be where you should go.
That‟s where the market is going to grow.
Do you see this room? A year or two years ago, there would have
been 100 to 200 people in this room. People just don‟t have the
money to travel and go to hotels. They just don‟t want to do it.
I would say that‟s a really good idea. Who is your market? I‟d say
storage. Go after people who do storage rental. They may have
enough of a way of an inventory that they don‟t need to do it, but it‟s
an idea. Do you have more?
Participant: I have a product that‟s software and hardware that would fit in with
your product.
Ross: What is your product? You‟re like Christopher Lloyd from “Back to
the Future.” I say that in a good way. You‟re so brilliant.
What else do you have? I want to close this with a big, fat trance
induction with everyone. I want to have the time to do that.
Paul: I was also thinking about another project. I was actually talking to
Lisa last night about it. I‟m not sure if it‟s more of a hobby or if
people would pay money for it.
Ross: You showed me that thing where if there‟s a funeral and you can‟t
make it to the funeral, we bring the funeral to you, or bring the
wedding to you. The way that would work is that you would bring a
camera that has an internet connection?
Ross: What would stop people from just using their webcam and
streaming that over Ustream or Stickam? They can already do it.
Ross: No.
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