Leah Marshall to Esther Perel Discussion Group

2 hrs · 
Karin Kempf brought up a great point today in one of her
comments: “What constitutes an emotional affair?”
"The whole meaning of monogamy itself has gone through
massive transformations. It used to be one person for life- now
it’s one person at a time. Relationships used to be organized
around duty and obligation. Today, they are organized around
negotiation and conversation. Now we have a paradox of
choice, more options, more self-expression, but it comes with a
lot less clarity, a lot more uncertainty, and a lot more self-
doubt. The burdens of the self have never been heavier. The
big decisions used to be made for us, and today we have to
make them ourselves. We also want a level of certainty about
them which is often quite crippling. People always need to
negotiate boundaries. Do they share their pasts with each
other? Their current fantasies of another person? We’re not
monogamous in our fantasies or in our minds. Everything needs
to be negotiated within the couple." ~Esther Perel
Quotes pulled from EP's CBC and Dax Shepard interviews,
linked below:
1. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/they-have-
become-the-new-religion-esther-perel-says-we-expect-
too-much-from-relationships-1.5000270
2. https://armchairexpertpod.com/pods/esther-perel

'THEY HAVE BECOME THE NEW

RELIGION': ESTHER PEREL SAYS WE
EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM
RELATIONSHIPS
 Couples therapist talks about why we fail to
connect and how we can do better
Out in the Open · Posted: Feb 15, 2019 4:50 PM ET | Last
Updated: July 26, 2019

Esther Perel is a psychotherapist and relationship expert known

for her podcast, Where Should We Begin?(Ernesto Urdaneta)
Listen to the full episode54:00
The story was originally published on February 15, 2019.

One of Esther Perel's mantras is, "The quality of our

relationships determines the quality of our lives."
The popular Belgian psychotherapist and relationship expert
has made it her mission to help improve how we connect.
Her books have been translated into dozens of languages and
her TED talks viewed millions of times. She's also known for her
boundary-pushing podcast, Where Should We
Begin?, which lets listeners in on intimate therapy sessions,
often between couples exploring some of their most vulnerable
feelings.
Perel's passion and interest in how we relate to each other is
rooted in her family history. Both of her parents were Holocaust
survivors ー the sole survivors of their respective families.
Perel on U.S.. politics:
"You have all these false messiahs coming out, who are
claiming that they have the truth ー just follow them. That
polarizes people."

Perel on the #MeToo movement:

"The lives of women will not change until men have the
opportunity to rethink their identity, in the way that many
women have been able to do for the past 50 years."

Click here to listen to the full interview.

"The loss of relationships — but also the unique moments of
connection of people that helped in situations where they
thought that no one would help them — all of these major
relational dynamics were pretty much part of stories that I
heard from the moment I grew up," Perel told Out in the
Open host Piya Chattopadhyay.
Perel sat down with Piya for a wide-ranging and candid chat
about the Western world's approach to relationships, our innate
need to make meaningful connections, how we can do better,
and how to relate across increasingly polarized social and
political lines.
 Esther Perel speaks about relationships during the Summit of
Greatness on September 14, 2017 in Columbus, Ohio. (Photo
by Kirk Irwin/Getty Images for Summit of Greatness)
The interview below has been edited and condensed.
What does having a truly meaningful connection with
someone look like?  
It means you feel that you matter, and they matter. And if you
matter, it means that someone cares for you. Someone
remembers you. You exist in the memory of others.
It means that you can never hit the ground because you are
lifted by these multiple connections who hold you up, literally,
physically. They hold you up, as well, psychologically.
You point out what we once got from the village, many
people are now expecting one singular human being to
provide for them. Talk to me about that.
We want, with the same person, to experience security,
adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise. We
want this same person to still be our best friend, and our
trusted confidante and our passionate lover.
We really have this idea that one person today will give us what
once an entire village used to provide. I can't say more
concretely: [there are] such unprecedented expectations for
our romantic relationships. They have become the new religion.
Relationships used to be organized around duty and obligation.
Today, they are organized around negotiation and conversation.

Esther Perel, author of "The State of Affairs: Rethinking

Infidelity" is photographed at the the Associated Press offices in
Washington, Tuesday, Oct. 17, 2017. (AP Photo/Carolyn
Kaster)
How does it get in the way of connecting with one
another, all of that pressure?
It is the golden question, right? Why is love so difficult? People
come with a history around attachment, around trust, around
respect, around gender, around their bodies.
People come either having experienced too much attention or
too little attention. Each person comes with their relational
dowry to their relationships, seriously. Then they have
expectations that with you, I am never going to feel that way
anymore. I'm never going to feel alone. I'm never going to
have to worry about being abandoned. I'm never going to be
suffocated. I'm going to be loved as is.
I mean, there is an enormous mythology over this person that's
going to basically rid me of all my internal turmoils.
You do not see infidelity as a moral issue, or as one of
victim and transgressor. What do you see it as?
I do see it as a transgression. I see it as a relational hurt. I
don't necessarily see it in moral terms. I understand that
relational betrayal comes in many forms. Sometimes [it comes]
in neglect, and indifference, and violence, and contempt, by
people who have not cheated. That does not make them
morally superior.
I often tell people, 'How many of you find yourself bringing the
best of you to work, and the leftovers home?'- Esther Perel
That's what I'm trying to sometimes take on... as if other
people's behavior, as long as they have not strayed, can remain
commendable, and that  maybe is a moral hierarchy I don't
necessarily agree with. That doesn't mean I justify, condone or
encourage cheating or infidelity whatsoever.
But I have studied infidelity for the last 12 years now. Never
has it been easier to cheat. Never has it been more difficult to
keep a secret. And never have we been more encouraged to
stray because we live in the era where we feel entitled to be
happy.
I'm sure you get a lot of people saying, "Oh Esther, you
got it all figured out. Look at your [more than] 30-year
marriage ー it's perfect." But would a younger Esther be
susceptible to those unrealistic notions of romantic love
that you're describing?
Absolutely, yes. There was this idea of the person you're going
to meet, and how he is going to make me feel, as if he was
responsible for my well being. I did not necessarily understand
that certain things, I have to take responsibility for ー they're
mine. If he can help me, that's nice, but he doesn't owe me.
He's not my mother or my father.
You know, there is a beautiful word that we don't hear enough
these days. It's called maturity. You know, at some point you
learn certain things.

Esther Perel speaks onstage during Bumble Presents:

Empowering Connections at Fair Market on March 10, 2018 in
Austin, Texas. (Photo by Vivien Killilea/Getty Images for
Bumble)
What can us non-therapists take away from your
podcast, Where Should We Begin? What skills should I
start honing?
If you want to change the other, change yourself.
I often tell people, "How many of you find yourself bringing the
best of you to work and the leftovers home?" And generally a
vast majority of the people raised their hands. Here is this
relationship from which we expect so much, but you invest
often so little compared to other areas of your life.
You come home, you take off your nice clothes. You sit in that
couch ー you chill. You feel like you've put all the efforts out to
be in the world. But then, don't come complaining that you
want some fire, that you want intensity, that you want
excitement, that you want sex, that you want intimacy. That
demands a different kind of relationship, a different kind of
investment of presence.
Relationships ー it's at the core of our existence. And so often,
we don't really talk about them, in-depth. We brush over them.
We trample them. We neglect them.- Esther Perel
You know, what you say... it's common sense. We know
this stuff. And yet, for most of us, it's so hard for us to
do. Why?
Because you want to feel like you are the greater victim.
Because you want to feel like you do more. Because we live
with stories, and it's hard for us to give up on those stories,
which basically give us a whole identity ー a way of
understanding ourselves.
And part of what makes you change the dynamic involves
giving up your story. There is history behind it, and the history
becomes the story, and the story becomes the pattern, and the
pattern becomes rigidity.
What is the takeaway? What do you want to leave us
with?
Relationships ー it's at the core of our existence. And so often,
we don't really talk about them, in-depth. We brush over them.
We trample them. We neglect them.
We put achievement and products ahead of people. Many,
many people are in need of having difficult conversations at this
moment ー somebody they owe an apology to forever. Really,
the fabric of our society is relationships.