Temperature Control at 19MW on our MS5001

control.com/thread/1558350627

MS5001 gas turbine reaches temperature control at 19MW

By yhorsef on 20 May, 2019 - 7:10 am

Good day,

We are currently having issue with our

MS5001 gas turbine. It gets to
temperature control at 19MW. we have
tried some few things in the cause of our
troubleshooting, like changing the air
intake filters and checking the
compressor bleed valve actuator still no
improvement.

We are currently experiencing this issue

on 2 of our MS5001.

Please kindly assist with any info on what to do next.

By CSA on 20 May, 2019 - 1:39 pm

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...

Good day, yhorsef,

First of all, what kind of control system is being used on the two MS5001 gas turbines? And,
is it SIMPLEX, DUAL Redundant, or TMR (Triple Modular Redundant)?

Second, what alarms are present when you are running at Base Load? AND, if the control
system is a GE Mark* control system, what Diagnostic Alarms are present when operating at
Base Load?

Third, how long has it been since the last maintenance outage (Combustion Inspection, Hot
Gas Path Inspection, or Major Inspection)?

Fourth, what fuel(s) are being burned in this unit (during start-up, and also when running at
Base Load)?

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Fifth, what is the nameplate rating for your MS5001 (not the generator nameplate--the gas
turbine nameplate)? (Usually, the gas turbine nameplate is located on the right side of the
unit, in the Turbine Compartment, on the Inlet Plenum wall, just inside the door closest to
the inlet.)

Sixth, what load have you been able to achieve in the past when operating at Base Load?

Seventh, describe the ambient conditions the unit is being operated in (maximum daytime
temperature; minimum nighttime temperature; relative humidity; monsoon season; coastal
conditions (salt air; fog); location (elevation; nearby process plant(s) (such as an oil refinery,
or cement plant, etc.), nearby roads or highways from which exhaust and/or dust might be
generated and ingested by the turbines).

Eighth, when was the last time an off-line water wash was performed?

Ninth, have you recently changed fuel suppliers and fuel(s)?

Tenth, when was the last time the IGVs (Inlet Guide Vanes) LVDTs (Linear Variable
Differential Transmitters) were calibrated?

Eleventh, when was the last time the compressor discharge pressure transmitter(s) were
calibrated? (usually device numbers 96CD; if there are redundant transmitters, sometimes
it's 96CD-1A, -1B and -1C)

Twelfth, do the units exhaust directly to atmosphere, or into a HRSG (Heat Recovery Steam
Generators--a "boiler")?

Thirteenth, what kind of combustors do the units have--conventional or DLN (Dry Low NOx)
combustors?

Fourteenth, can you please tell us what the average exhaust temperature is when the unit is
at Base Load (on temperature control)?

Fifteenth, can you please tell us what the Compressor Discharge Pressure is when the unit is
at Base Load (on temperature control)?

Sixteenth, what are the exhaust temperature spreads of the units? (If the control system is a
digital GE Mark* system, the values you will be looking for are TTXSP1, TTXSP2 and TTXSP3.)
Or if unit has an older GE Mark* control system there should be a way to find the highest
and lowest exhaust temperatures and report them back to us.

Please, Please, PLEASE provide the answers to all the questions--even if you think one or
three of them are irrelevant. You really haven't given us much information, so we are
completely blind about the units at your site, the conditions, etc. We don't know what kind
of control system(s) is(are) in use on the turbines at your site--which would affect our
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suggestions for collecting data. And, without good data we can't do too much to be of
immediate or specific help. Help us to help you by providing the requested information--
again, even if you don't think some of the questions are relevant.

USUALLY, when something like this happens it's because the axial compressors and IGVs
are dirty--very dirty. If there is lots of humidity where the turbines are located, and any kind
of dust, that will usually build up on the IGVs and axial compressor blades (stationary and
rotating) and decrease performance. The best way to clean the axial compressor is to
perform an off-line water wash, using the correct amount of detergent, AND being sure to
rinse the axial compressor thoroughly after the wash is complete (any detergent not fully
rinsed out of the unit can cause build-up and decrease performance). If you perform on-line
water washes you should already know that they are only good up to a point--and then on-
line washes will not restore any performance, and at that time an off-line water wash is the
only alternative to restore performance.

If it's been a long time since a maintenance outage, the hot gas path parts (and even the
axial compressor blades) can be worn an inefficient. If you used parts from a supplier other
than the OEM, they can degrade quickly (not all vendors produce such parts, but several
do). And, that, combined with a dirty axial compressor and IGVs can cause a pretty big
performance decrease.

Another common problem is compressor discharge pressure transmitter operation and

calibration, as well as having the manual isolation valves of the transmitters in the proper
position and the tubing runs free of leaks. The proper value of compressor discharge
pressure is critical to calculating the maximum allowable exhaust temperature--which is
then used by most any control system to determine how much fuel to put into the unit to
achieve exhaust temperature control--Base Load.

If you have a GE Mark* control system, they usually have a back-up exhaust temperature
"curve" which can at times become active and limit output. But, that is usually accompanied
by an alarm (at least on more recent Mark* control systems) that the back-up control is
active or something similar. The reasons for the back-up control becoming active can be
numerous, but we need to know what kind of control system is in use at your plant to be
able to tell you how to determine, if possible, if the primary or back-up exhaust temperature
control is active.

Another somewhat common issue is incorrect calibration of the IGV LVDTs (the devices the
provide the position feedback(s) to the turbine control system). If they are not calibrated
correctly (if the feedback is not scaled correctly to match the actual, physical IGV angle) then
the unit might not be getting the proper amount of air.

Sometimes, when fuel suppliers or sources are changed, the heating value of the new fuel is
lower than the previous fuel, and that can cause issues.
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Also, if the unit is exhausting into an HRSG, sometimes the back pressure of the HRSG can
be too high, and that can cause issues for the turbine(s).

But, we need more information to be of more, better help!

Looking forward to hearing back from you with more information!

By yhorsef on 21 May, 2019 - 5:06 am

Thanks for the information. I will provide the information you need very soon.

By yhorsef on 6 June, 2019 - 7:40 am

We checked and saw that the 20CB solenoid for the Compressor Bleed valve was faulty, and
we had to change it, and everything was OK. Currently the units are generating 22mw
before entering temperature control.

Thanks for your all encompassing diagnosis.

By CSA on 7 June, 2019 - 11:58 pm

That is pretty unusual.... both units experiencing problems with the same
solenoid. And in your first post you said the actuators were checked.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! And glad you were able to solve the problems!

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