Role-Play Assignment #1:

A Conversation with Hampton on What to Major in for College

Luna Flynn

Rossier School of Education, University of Southern California

EDUC 500: The Counseling Process

Dr. Marybeth Heather

February 6, 2022
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Introduction

In this transcript, a high school senior, Hampton, is introduced. He goes to school at Troy

high school in Fullerton, CA and his primary concern for this meeting pertains to college and

choosing what to major in. Hampton did indeed give consent for this meeting to occur and for it

to be recorded for educational purposes. In this scenario, the counselor has access to Hampton’s

academic record and can see that he has been consistently scoring all A’s in both his junior and

senior year. In his junior year, he took English 3 Honors, AP US History, Pre-Calc, AP Physics 1,

AP Computer Science and Concert Band. In his senior year, Hampton took AP Language, AP

Government/Macroeconomics, AP Calculus, AP Physics 2, IB Design, and Jazz Band. It is also

listed on his portfolio that he is in the Marching Band– all four years– and that he is part of the

Technology program. Because of his enrollment in the tech program, he has also completed one

internship over the summer, but it is not specified what it was. He also took fundamentals of

programming and computer algorithms freshman and sophomore year as a part of the tech

program. This active participation in the tech program led the counselor to use that as a basis for

understanding Hampton’s interests and possible college paths.

For this meeting, Hampton sought advice from the counselor to find some direction for

what to do in college– particularly what to study. Hampton wants to discuss college options with

the counselor that can encompass his desires to meet his mom’s expectations, while still

following what he enjoys. What the counselor and Hampton discuss is mostly background

information, covering Hampton’s interests, and exploring a little bit of his family relationships to

discover the connections between his upbringing and his thoughts on college. From what the two

discuss, Hampton’s possible interests include engineering and music, but no specifics we

decided. This does allow for the possibility of Hampton returning to continue the discussion.
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Prior to the start of the verbatim transcript, Hampton and the counselor have discussed his

interests in engineering, his previous and current classes, and his education from the internship.

They discuss Hampton possibly learning more about the subtle differences between Computer

Science, Computer Engineering, and Electrical Engineering as possible majors in college.

Hampton explains that his preference would be something that pertains to problem solving and

coding, since they go hand in hand. Hampton’s internship pertained to fixing broken tablets, and

learning practical skills like soldering. He describes it as akin to “factory work” and did not find

the internship very interesting. The counselor and Hampton are about to move on to discuss

Hampton’s interests in music.

Transcript

Verbatim Leads/Micro Skills Comments for future

LUNA (09:16): …so I guess we can Counselor tries to Counselor should find a way to
kind of, perhaps, keep Engineering identify phrase this transition better
as an option for maybe what you strengths/interests by
would uh, like to major in in utilizing listening
college, but, um, maybe let’s talk microskill of
about some of your other, um, encouragement.
areas, of uh interests or like some of
your strengths perhaps, in those? So
it does seem like you’ve been doing
a lot of band recently as well.

HAMPTON (09:33): mhmm

LUNA (09:34): Can you tell me a
little about your experience with
that?
Clarifying with Perhaps the counselor could
open-ended question ask a more specific question
to hear more about like “How has band been a
student’s experience. positive or negative experience
for you?”

HAMPTON (09:36) Yeah, so, when

I first came I-eeuhh did PE for a
little bit, but PE was super lame.
So, I– my friend was in band so he
was like you should do band,
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(unintelligible) it uh takes care of

your PE credit over four
years.Which, in my opinion was
actually a trap because I could’ve
took PE for two years and then
been done with PE and have an
extra–extra period to do whatever I
want, but now I’m stuck with band,
and I’m stuck with that every year,
ya know? But…

LUNA (09:98): mmmm… yeah…
(10:01): I guess, do you think that it to gain more
worked out in your favor?
Open-ended question Again, the counselor could
have used a more specific
information about question to direct conversation
student’s feelings more precisely. Although the
toward band. student does eventually discuss
why he might not enjoy music
as a college major, the
counselor could have asked a
better leading question to get to
that point more efficiently,
thereby staying on topic and
allowing them to actively
answer the student’s questions
about his dilemma.

HAMPTON (10:03) I didn’t, I do

enjoy playing an instrument. I uh,
started on Tuba, I had never played
a wind instrument before college–
or before high school sorry– and
uh, it was uh, and it was super
interesting and I think I’m get– I
got pretty good and I think I’m
pretty good now. Uhm I have had
some thoughts about maybe this– I
could do this professionally because
we’ve had– um– music uhhh music
students from Cal State Fullerton
come over and teach us for band
and um, I’ve had lessons with one
of them– the tuba instructor, Ed and
he’s been, he’s been telling me that
I’m getting pretty good and he has
like– he has a lot of sheet music for
me to play and I– I do enjoy

playing the tuba with him…
LUNA (10:44): that’s exciting.
HAMPTON: (10:45): But (pause,
sigh) there’s just– I’m not musically
gifted in like… uhhhh in other
senses though like ya know? Like I
can play the instrument, I need to
practice a lot, but, I, like, ear-wise,
composition-wise anything like that
I’m like very–I’m very for– that’s
vuh– it’s very foreign to me.
LUNA (11:05) Well, I guess you
could always pursue, just,
performance, since that seems to be
what you’re kind of gearing
towards already.
HAMPTON (11:11): But wouldn’t
performance also have, like, those
theoretical elements? Right?
LUNA (11:15) uhm, yeah, I guess
in college, definitely, would also
kind of dive into the theoretical
elements so is that something you
would be wary of, you think?
4
Student expresses hesitation
toward music as a major and
highlights some of his
weaknesses. The counselor
should pick up on that and
work toward accepting
weaknesses, while still
highlighting his strengths.
Counselor Counselor did not seem to
summarizes recognize that the student
conversation thus far already was hesitant toward
by stating an majoring in music. Instead, the
interpretation of counselor could have
student’s disclosure. recommended thinking about it
as a possible minor instead, or
encourage participation in
bands in college to allow
student to continue what he
loves, but still find a career
path that can answer his
economic concerns (which
were mentioned previously–
the student wants to major in a
field that will allow him to
make enough money).
Counselor should be familiar
with what different majors
cover. (Side note: I majored in
music in undergrad and should
have approached this question
differently. This was a little
embarrassing from a personal
standpoint.)
Counselor utilizes the As with the previous
microskill of microskill, the counselor is
exploring feelings in asking questions that the
this question to gauge student already revealed. The
the student’s feelings counselor should have tried to
on music as a major. move on with the conversation

HAMPTON (11:23): I think I
would. I think uhm. I think it would
be cool, it would help me– my– me
and my like music playing, improv
maybe or–. (pause) But it’s also just
something I haven’t worked with
and I’m like, it makes me anxious
to think about working with it.
Because like, college is just, where
I’m going to define my life, right? I
don’t want to be messing up the…
LUNA (11:44): So let’s talk a little
bit about that source of anxiety
there for you, so where do you
think that comes from?
HAMPTON (11:49) uhm Iiiii really
wanna do well in college so I can
make money. Right? Uhmmm my
family is, like, lower income and
they’re– my mom expects me to go
into a field that has– makes money,
because my brother, uhh wasn’t
really that good in school, right so
he– he majored in art. Uhm he was
in art school at Troy, like wh– here,
actually, and it was a little… he
didn’t do well because he had– he
was like, first generation, he’s first
child. He came from China, and it
makes sense. And then he went to
college and his– he did like,
decently in college, but it didn’t
really help propel him into a career
so he had to take a lot of classes.
And I think he’s making by, pretty
well now, but not in a– not in any,
uh, amount that would be, guh– uh,
5
instead.
The student’s anxiety
pertaining to college as a
definition for his future is an
important underlying feeling to
address and discuss.
Counselor uses the Counselor did a good job of
combined microskill picking up on these anxieties.
of confrontation by This could be useful to revisit
asking for a in future sessions with the
clarification as well as student. This question begins to
an exploration of dive into the reason why the
feelings pertaining to student came in in the first
this anxiety towards place.
college.
Student discloses personal
family and cultural
background. Discusses how
relationship with brother and
how that has affected their
mom’s perception on what the
student should accomplish in
college. Counselor should also
note that the student’s mom and
brother are first generation
immigrants, and make sure to
discuss how the student feels
about it. (Side note: my mom is
also a first-generation
immigrant here so this could
have been a good spot for more
self-disclosure.)

like, that would be able to uh, like,
fund our lives, ya know? Like he’s
barely funding his own.
LUNA (12:43): Okay, I see, and, I
guess like, do you think that, um,
finding a major in college that can
get you more money is– is one of
th– one of, I guess, your goals now
that has kind of sprouted out of this,
um… economic difficulties that you
might have had, growing up?
HAMPTON (12:58) Mhmm.
Mhmm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, uh
my mom definitely wants someone
to take care of her, ya know. Like
and, an– and initially it was like,
she would tell– like yeah you
(unintelligible)– my brother was
like, “when I grow old, I’ll– I’m
gonna– I’m gonna buy a big house
and I’m gonna take care of you”
And of course that’s like, every
parent’s dream, right?
LUNA (13:17): Of course.
HAMPTON (13:18) And it’s really
big in Asian culture for that, I think,
as well– like super big– usually
you– you’re parents move with you
whenever you get married and stuff
like that, and I really enjoy that; I
really love my mom. But…
6
The counselor Highlighting the economic
paraphrases what the difficulties and understanding
student has said so far the family and cultural
and sets up a question specifics of the student allows
to reflect on the the counselor to dig deeper into
meaning and impact the issue at hand. By asking
of economic about the effect of economic
difficulties on the differences on the student, the
student’s perception of counselor can better understand
college. the driving factors and the basis
for the student’s internalized
expectations for himself.
Perhaps, the counselor could
have continued this track and
asked more about how the
student has internalized these
challenges and what it means
for him.
Student discusses mom’s
expectations for her two sons,
and this seems to be a deep
source of responsibility and
driving purpose for the student.
It seems that he has an
incredibly high opinion of his
mom, and perhaps thinks that
his brother has let her down a
little. The Counselor should ask
more about the interpersonal
relationships of the student’s
family.
Student discusses more about
his culture and his mom’s
expectations. Counselor should
consider asking about what his
expectations for family are and
how they might be similar or
different from his mother.

LUNA (13:31): Yeah, I’m actually
Italian too and that’s kind of a
cultural thing that we have– is to
take care of our parents, and live
with them and have ‘em take care
of your grandchildren– or their
grandchildren, too.
HAMPTON (13:39): Mhmm,
exactly! But like, since my brother
is barely making– eh making
enough for himself, I– it feels like
there put– there’s a lot of pressure
on me to be in a field where I’m– I
can make a lot of money to be able
to start making, uhh, money for
myself and for my mother, you
know?
LUNA (13:57): So do you feel
like–
HAMPTON (13:58): –And that’s
why engineering felt, like– I was
thinking about engineering a lot,
recently, because, like, it’s
definitely, a major that can propel
me into a lot of money and it’s not–
LUNA (14:07): Yeah 100%.
HAMPTON (14:08): it– being a
doctor: is not something I’d be
willing to do;
LUNA (14:12): (laughs)
HAMPTON (14:12): and being a
lawyer? Also not something I’m
willing to do because it's no longer
problem solving– which I enjoy
doing…
7
Counselor uses The example the counselor
self-disclosure to help uses seems kind of frivolous,
appear more human but does seem to allow the
and relatable to the student to connect and accept
student. Using a the counselor as a helpful
cultural connection, resource. Perhaps the counselor
even being different could have used a better
cultures, allows the example, or gone more in
counselor to continue depth.
to build rapport with
the student.
Student discusses the
responsibility he feels toward
his family, but does not
explicitly state it. The
counselor should, and does,
pick up on this point as a
question later on.
This next exchange develops
the relationship between the
student and counselor because
they can relate, and the
counselor laughs, which
continues to perpetuate that she
is human, and there to help.
^
^
^
^

LUNA (14:17): Right.
HAMPTON (14:17): It’s a lot of
memorization, which is not
(unintelligible)
LUNA (14:19): Yeah, no, it’s
definitely a great point. Uhm, and I
guess do you feel, um, some sense
of like, responsibility toward your
mom to pick up the slack where
your brother might have left off?
HAMPTON (14:31): I think, a little
bit. I th–buuut, I’mmm– I don’t
know, because I never really lived
with my brother, so it’s not like
I’m– I feel the pressure…
LUNA (14:40): Well what do you
mean “didn’t really live with your
brother”?
HAMPTON (14:42): Since he was
twelve years older than I was…
LUNA (14:44): Ooooh!
HAMPTON (14:45): …he uhh…
he– I was– like, when I was five he
was seventeen…
LUNA (14:48): Right.
HAMPTON (14:48): …he
graduated highschool, he was going
to college, he moves out. Right?
And I, and he doesn’t really come
back that often, ya know, he just
lives in his dorm. So I– I basically
lived, uh, as an only child for a
good portion of it, but, just without
8
^
Here, the counselor The counselor does a good job
interprets what the of picking up on this
student has said so far underlying aspect of the
and reframes the focus student’s identity: his
with a question asking responsibility toward his mom
about responsibility. and how his relationship with
his brother has affected it
The student mentions the fact
that he and his brother did not
really live together, which
opens up the conversation for
some background.
The counselor asks for The counselor asks a
clarification reasonable clarification
pertaining to the question, but it affects the
student’s brother and direction of the conversation
family background. and distracts the student from
answering the more important
question about responsibility.
Explains the age gap between
the student and his brother.
Student puts the age gap
between he and his brother in
context, and furthers this by
explaining how it affected his
childhood.

an overbearing mother, ya know?
Like usually if you’re a first born
child, your mother is super, super
strict– at least, that’s what my
friends say and– and she’s not as
strict with me. Uhm. Yeah.
LUNA (15:13) Um… so I guess…
Do you think that, uhm, or I guess
like were you ever close to your
brother then? Um since, did the age
back– the– the…
HAMPTON (15:21): Mmm… no…
LUNA (15:23): …did the age gap
affect that?
HAMPTON (15:25): Yeah… so I
was never really close to my
brother, so, I never felt that, like, I
needed to pick up his slack, but it
was more like I need to do better
because… like, he’s not able to do
what he wanted.
LUNA (15:38): Okay… okay.
HAMPTON (15:39): So it’s… I
have to do better than him. Was–is
like the thing, like because where
I’m constantly being compared…
like you– you’re compare me to my
9
The counselor uses The counselor stutters here a
what the student has little (I was checking the time
said so far to reframe to see how close we were to
the question to fifteen minutes…), and then the
address the student’s question asked seeks to expand
relationship with his upon the student’s relationship
brother for more with his brother.
clarification due to the
new information.
The counselor The second part of this
continues this question addresses how it may
question to ask for a have affected the student
reflection of the growing up and indirectly, his
student’s experience sense of responsibility.
growing up.
Student discusses that it is not
so much a responsibility to pick
up after his brother, but rather
pity, almost, for his brother not
being able to achieve his
dream. The counselor could
pick up on this and perhaps,
address these feelings of the
student toward his brother, and
whether or not the underlying
sense of responsibility pertains
more to his relationship with
his mom.
The student continues his
discussion about his feelings,
revealing that he feels he has to
do better than his brother, and
if anything, is currently doing
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brother, she’s like you’re doing so so, according to what his mom
well (unintelligible) but compared thinks when she compares her
to your brother, he was doing this at sons. The student reveals a
that time.. I was like, okay cool: reverence for his mom’s
I’m… within expectations… opinion that the counselor
should continue to discuss in
further sessions.

Analysis

For this analysis section, I think it would be most beneficial for me to discuss it in first

person. In this way, I can better articulate my experience and discuss my strengths and

weaknesses. Overall, I think I have made a good start with being an effective counselor– but

there is no doubt I still have much to learn.

One of the challenges I noticed while conducting this role-play assignment was how to

best simulate a counseling session. Since I asked my partner to help me out, I thought recording

on zoom where we both used our computers would create feedback and take away from the

interview itself. With this reasoning, I thought it best to record on one computer while sharing a

space, in this case, our couch. I also felt a little confused with how best to keep track of the time

and look at my notes on the student case we created. I think I had to check my phone and

computer a couple times for reference for classes, or to check the time. In doing so, it seemed to

detract from the interview itself. Furthermore, I struggled with how best to record this session

and maintain realistic body language with ‘Hampton’. I spent most of the time looking at him to

practice culturally respectful eye contact and warm body language to simulate a safe space.

Because of this, the video is just a lot of the side of my face, so it is hard to tell what my facial

expressions are anyway (and my acne looks terrible). This recording brought up a lot of

self-consciousness and disgust with my appearance, so that is definitely something I personally

have to work on accepting.

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With respect to content, I think that I can definitely learn to choose better, more specific

questions that can help me become a more effective counselor. We tried to create this role-play

with a goal in mind: to help Hampton figure out what he wants to study in college. As we

discussed Hampton’s background to better understand his interests, it seemed like we ended up

spending a lot of time on just background, and not too much on actively solving his dilemma. As

I mention throughout the transcript notes, there were some missed opportunities for ways to

redirect the conversation to focus on answering his questions within the time limit, instead of

drifting into tangents. By staying more to the point, I would have been able to get to all the

questions needed to answer, or at least give him a better idea of what to do with his college major

dilemma.

On the other hand, I think I was able to pick up on some of the underlying emotions that

Hampton may have been feeling. With regards to his ingrained sense of anxiety toward being

able to provide for his family financially and how this notion had been a learned behavior and

reaction to his familial relationships. Hampton explained feeling more responsible for his family

in that he would have to be the son who actually got a well paying job, versus his brother, who

was described as being more of a nonchalant, irresponsible person who followed what he loved

instead of providing for their mom. Perhaps Hampton harbors some resentment toward his

brother for not accepting the responsibility of being the provider, and hypothetically also

continuing the family line. This sense of pressure arises from their mother, who does not seem to

be overbearing, but does seem to have high expectations. This inherit pressure can affect

Hampton and his decisions for college because he only has two role-models in his life, one who

expects practical solutions, and one who flaunts freedom. These almost opposite perceptions can

create a split for Hampton and create more anxiety surrounding college.
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All in all, I think I had a good start, and was able to recognize that I caught on to some

underlying feelings that could be explored in more depth in future sessions. However, I was

somewhat ineffective in moving the conversation forward to have an effective counseling

session. When I asked my partner to complete a reflection on our interview, he also mentioned

that I was not able to help him find a solution to the dilemma, but he did feel heard and that I

listened to him well. This gives me hope as I seem to be able to satisfy the empathetic

requirements for a school counselor, and I must focus my attention on finding the best ways to

frame questions and direct conversation. This was a challenging and somewhat tedious

assignment, but I understand its significance and believe I learned a lot from this experience. I

look forward to seeing how my skills can improve for the next role-play assignment.