Interview Transcript

Mark Anderson, Head Master

The Sanford School
Friday, October 1, 2021 2:29 p.m. – 3:15 p.m.

(Note: lines 1 – 31 were just conversations about work, school and family – unrelated to the
interview)

Key: ME – Micah Edwards, Interviewer

MA – Mark Anderson, Interviewee

QUESTION 1
32 - ME
00:02:47.490 --> 00:03:01.710
So I just wanted to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind sure what factors or career paths
led you to choose a career working with children before it became a head of school.

33 - MA
00:03:01.710 --> 00:03:07.650
Yeah, that's a great question. Given the topic that you're, you're.

34 - MA
00:03:07.650 --> 00:03:11.430
And I was thinking about that, uh, as you went back to your office.

35 - MA
00:03:11.784 --> 00:03:25.615
The my path, like, I think so many male teachers, I was in college and trying to decide what was
I going to do trying to figure out what was going to interest me. I had a lot of friends.

36 - MA
00:03:25.615 --> 00:03:37.705
I went to business school several who were an engineering school, some who stayed on and then
went on to law school and I considered each of those paths, but they just didn't speak to me.

37 - MA
00:03:38.544 --> 00:03:44.694
So, I really didn't come to education to the idea of teaching until very late in my college.

38 - MA
00:03:45.444 --> 00:03:59.275
Life…I picked a major right? My junior year, and I remember vividly calling my mom who was
a public school teacher at the time, and telling her. I was very excited.

39 - MA
00:03:59.275 --> 00:04:07.254
You know, I was going to be a teacher, and I thought she would be excited and she was not she
said, oh, no, Mark don't do that.
1
40 - MA
00:04:07.349 --> 00:04:10.500
And I said, what are you talking about? And, um.

41 - MA
00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:22.949
She came around, but she had she had she was at the tail end of her career as a public school,
elementary teacher, and she was hitting that point where she's feeling pretty burnt out and.

42 - MA
00:04:22.949 --> 00:04:36.988
Standardized tests and all this stuff and but she saw what, what I had already come was, was an,
and that was I wanted a job that I was going to be able to give back that I was going to be able to
help people.

43 - MA
00:04:37.223 --> 00:04:50.153
And 1 that I would enjoy, and I felt like the ability to influence students was going to be
something that I was going to be good at.

44 - MA
00:04:51.144 --> 00:04:55.134
I had always been that guy who helped some of my friends.

45 - MA
00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:59.488
In college, you know, some kind of ad hoc tutoring.

46 - MA
00:04:59.488 --> 00:05:02.968
And I just had a knack for explaining things in a way.

47 - MA
00:05:02.968 --> 00:05:15.959
That people didn't understand whether it's math or Spanish, and that really planted seeds for me.
So I got into elementary education at the University of Missouri.

48 - MA
00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:24.028
And actually, the reason I chose elementary was kind of related to your subject. I knew.

49 - MA
00:05:24.028 --> 00:05:28.619
That most males did not go in elementary education.

2
50 - MA
00:05:28.619 --> 00:05:35.908
If you were going to be an education major, you were going to at high school, because most
people who do high school males.

51 V
00:05:35.908 --> 00:05:45.329
That I knew also had a real bent for athletics, and they wanted to be coaches and teachers. I like
sports, but.

52 - MA
00:05:45.329 --> 00:05:50.369
I, I wasn't an athlete myself, um, and I really found that.

53 - MA
00:05:50.369 --> 00:05:58.829
Being a male in the elementary setting, because there's few males in education, there's even
fewer in elementary.

54 - MA
00:05:59.423 --> 00:06:04.973
That kids were particularly drawn to my voice and what I was able to offer.

55 - MA
00:06:05.244 --> 00:06:16.403
So, as soon as I got into the classrooms, my college was very good about getting students into the
schools, into the public schools in Columbia, Missouri while we were studying.

56 - MA
00:06:16.434 --> 00:06:27.293
And, as soon as I picked that major, and as soon as I started taking my classes, not 1 day, did I
did I say to myself a moment of doubt?

57 - MA
00:06:27.324 --> 00:06:35.874
I always knew that what I had done the decision and what I was studying to do. And the career
path I was on was gonna be right for me.

58 - ME
00:06:37.613 --> 00:06:50.093
I also majored in elementary education while the University, Delaware, of course my route to
teach us alternative route to careers prior to actually using my degree at this time.

59 - ME
00:06:50.634 --> 00:06:59.963
So I know what you're saying but I definitely enjoy the short time. I was in elementary
education. There's something about elementary too.

3
60 - ME
00:07:00.238 --> 00:07:06.478
That, um, I think has served me well, and maybe it's true for you as well. And that is.

61 - ME
00:07:06.593 --> 00:07:09.653
Rather than focus on content area,

62 – ME
00:07:10.043 --> 00:07:10.492
like,

63 - ME
00:07:10.552 --> 00:07:20.303
so much happens in the secondary realm I felt like so much of our classes and at least my
elementary major they were much more geared towards 1,

64 – ME
00:07:20.303 --> 00:07:23.153
being student centered relationships,

65 - ME
00:07:23.153 --> 00:07:23.603
centered,

66 - ME
00:07:23.603 --> 00:07:27.084
connecting with kids setting in a tone.

QUESTION 2
67 - ME
00:07:27.084 --> 00:07:41.454
What is the affect, of your teaching and then what's your pedagogy? Like how do you design
lessons regardless of the topic? How do you put kids to work? So that it's authentic? It's real.

68 - MA
00:07:41.483 --> 00:07:49.043
It's memorable so the stuff can change. I taught English history science.

69 - MA
00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:54.478
Uh, health, you name it, the content.

4
70 - MA
00:07:54.478 --> 00:08:07.374
Was the variable the other pieces that I was bringing to the table that was more of the lead story
and that actually has served me. Well, I think, as I've worked with middle school students now,
high school students, because while yeah.

71 - MA
00:08:07.374 --> 00:08:10.103
Their ages might change and the subject it might change. At the core of it. Good teaching is good
teaching.

72 - ME
00:08:10.584 --> 00:08:22.973
Thank you. I appreciate that. My next question was, how have people influence your decision to
or do they encourage, or discourage you but you always said something about your mom.

73 - MA
00:08:23.963 --> 00:08:28.134
Yeah, she I think she's a little embarrassed now.

74 - MA
00:08:28.379 --> 00:08:33.389
25, plus years later, that that was her response.

75 - MA
00:08:33.389 --> 00:08:37.469
Um, but but that really that was because I think.

76 - MA
00:08:37.469 --> 00:08:45.749
As, as I was picking that major, and it was, I think, partly the state of the industry, but but even
more so.

77 - MA
00:08:45.749 --> 00:08:55.288
You know, there's, there's, there's something in American culture, American society males are
the breadwinners males.

78 - MA
00:08:55.288 --> 00:09:02.759
Make enough money to support and raise your family and all those things are very true. And I, I
get that.

79 - MA
00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:14.369
Yet I know a lot of people who aren't happy with what they do for a living. Right? So, it's, it's a
catch 22. do you want a job?

5
80 - MA
00:09:14.369 --> 00:09:24.899
That that you make more money, but you're miserable. We spend a lot of hours in our country at
work in in our careers and I always wanted to.

81 - MA
00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:34.048
To have a, a calling in a profession, rather than let the paycheck make my decisions for me.

82 - MA
00:09:34.048 --> 00:09:38.908
Well, it's it well, does your being a mill.

83 - MA
00:09:38.908 --> 00:09:43.109
Introduce different dimensions to the atmosphere of students or colleagues like yourself.

84 - MA
00:09:44.489 --> 00:09:48.418
I think so. I think so. I I think it's.

85 - MA
00:09:48.418 --> 00:09:56.609
You know, we talk a lot about now, uh, identity and and that's part of who I am and and being a.

86 - MA
00:09:56.609 --> 00:10:00.719
White male leader and educator or black.

87 - MA
00:10:00.719 --> 00:10:11.759
That's whether whether I intend to or not that's the self I, I bring to the table so I, I, I have to be
cognizant of, um.

88 - MA
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:19.318
How I might be perceived, or, you know, I have learned that early on is sometimes when you're a
head.

89 - MA
00:10:19.318 --> 00:10:22.739
People are always watching it and trying to.

90 - MA
00:10:22.739 --> 00:10:25.583
Guess, you know, Mark didn't say anything and so he might be mad.

6
91 - MA
00:10:25.644 --> 00:10:25.974
Well,

92 - MA
00:10:25.974 --> 00:10:26.153
no,

93 - MA
00:10:26.153 --> 00:10:29.783
I'm not like there's it,

94 - MA
00:10:29.783 --> 00:10:31.703
but it's the leader's job just like,

95 - MA
00:10:31.703 --> 00:10:37.014
it's the teacher's job in the classroom to make sure that all members of a team,

96 - MA
00:10:37.014 --> 00:10:38.244
all members and faculty,

97 - MA
00:10:38.244 --> 00:10:44.484
the student body that they know who I am and that I'm here for them.

98 - MA
00:10:44.874 --> 00:10:48.774
I'm part of the experience, I'm not the whole experience, but.

99 - MA
00:10:49.048 --> 00:10:55.828
But I'm part of it, and that's 1 of the great things about the job. It's also 1 of the challenges.

QUESTION 3
100 - ME
00:10:55.828 --> 00:11:00.479
Awesome. All right well, my next question is, um.

101 - MA
00:11:01.589 --> 00:11:11.609
I think you somewhat test appointments, unique contribution, have you made as a male educated
and also what contributions seems to be under appreciated as a male educator.

7
102 - MA
00:11:11.609 --> 00:11:17.428
I know I touched base with that before, you know, when I left about.

103 - MA
00:11:17.428 --> 00:11:31.589
Made it a public school, and having a male figure as an educator as a teacher where you don't
have that that male role model, or mentor in your household you go in and elaborate on your
feelings towards that.

104 - MA
00:11:31.589 --> 00:11:36.058
Sure, sure. I, I think it's, it's 1 that, um.

105 - MA
00:11:36.058 --> 00:11:41.788
We all carry as adults who work with young people and that is.

106 - MA
00:11:41.788 --> 00:11:46.558
Whatever our identity and whole self is.

107 - MA
00:11:46.558 --> 00:11:58.438
That that's good that we get to interact with all different kinds of kids. Right? So, if if you and I
are both working with.

108 - MA
00:12:23.609 --> 00:12:32.188
Faculty, and that includes gender that includes raise that includes religion, because the more we
can expose students.

109 - MA
00:12:32.604 --> 00:12:40.943
to educators who they have different backgrounds, but at the heart, they all have the same
intention, and that is to help kids.

110 - MA
00:12:41.933 --> 00:12:55.043
And that creates a stew that is positive and wonderful and really gives the community life. I think
there's, there's another piece to answer your question on the leadership side.

111 - MA
00:12:55.913 --> 00:13:07.134
There's a lot of talk in leadership circles, especially in independent schools. I don't know what
the numbers look like in the public schools, but there's not a lot of female.

8
112 - MA
00:13:07.469 --> 00:13:13.229
Leaders still, uh, who are higher higher level administrators.

113 - MA
00:13:13.229 --> 00:13:28.139
you know uh upper school had assistant heads of school directors to finance that kind of thing
and not by design so I’m not going to take uh credit for setting out to do this

114 - MA
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:40.589
But I've built a team that's full of women. I'm the only male on our senior leadership team and
that's kind of been an interesting dynamic for for me.

115 - MA
00:13:40.589 --> 00:13:45.599
Um, and again, I didn't set out to do that, but I have surrounded myself with.

116 - MA
00:13:45.599 --> 00:13:50.818
Really high power really smart dedicated.

117 - MA
00:13:50.818 --> 00:14:02.278
Female leaders, and that's something that it's, it's a bit of a catch 22 to be honest with you for our
females. You and I are both fathers at the school of daughters.

118 - MA
00:14:02.278 --> 00:14:12.928
Like, that's pretty powerful that Tyler and Stella and family can can look to Jamie Morgan and
Abby Smith and Cheryl Fleming and see, like.

119 - MA
00:14:12.928 --> 00:14:25.109
These women are are running the school with me there's no shortage of that. It is a little bit
almost. Uh, I say the catch 22 because.

120 - MA
00:14:25.109 --> 00:14:28.739
Am I doing a disservice to the to the male students?

121 - MA
00:14:28.739 --> 00:14:41.219
Right. Have allowed that to become imbalanced. And and if and when I make another hire for
the senior leadership team, when somebody moves on.

122 - MA
00:14:41.219 --> 00:14:47.428

9
Is that something I should send out to do? I'm not saying 100%. Yes, but it's on my mind.

123 - MA
00:14:47.428 --> 00:14:51.479
Okay, appreciate that, um.

124 - MA
00:14:51.479 --> 00:14:59.369
Now I go and, of course, how might being a male teacher fit, like, children's perception of, I
guess, masculinity and femininity as well as, uh.

125 - MA
00:14:59.369 --> 00:15:04.828
Possibly to be a way we can consider a role in this profession.

126 - MA
00:15:05.999 --> 00:15:11.219
That's a really good question. I think the.

127 - MA
00:15:11.219 --> 00:15:15.629
Hello.

128 - MA
00:15:15.629 --> 00:15:18.928
Sorry about that.

129- MA
00:15:18.928 --> 00:15:22.948
That was okay, that was.

130 - MA
00:15:22.948 --> 00:15:26.879
I'm trying to bring it back now, but now I don't see you.

131 - MA
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:32.339
It will see me, I'll see you my, because it, um.

132 - MA
00:15:32.339 --> 00:15:42.448
Because the phone rang browser is Flexi.

133- MA
00:15:42.448 --> 00:15:46.078
Okay, well, I'll just keep talking then and look at the.

10
134 - MA
00:15:46.078 --> 00:15:50.788
There you are there you go. I didn't know what the icon was sorry about that. Um.

135 - MA
00:15:52.078 --> 00:15:57.538
I think there's opportunities.

136 - MA
00:15:57.538 --> 00:16:03.629
When you have males who who are confident, and.

137 - MA
00:16:03.629 --> 00:16:06.808
Uh, themselves and showing.

138
00:16:06.808 --> 00:16:13.798
Their emotions, whether that's pride or love or anger or sadness or whatever, it might be.

139
00:16:13.798 --> 00:16:18.778
And putting language to that for students.

140 - MA
00:16:18.778 --> 00:16:23.339
And and knowing that.

141 - MA
00:16:23.339 --> 00:16:32.099
That's still a masculine. Should be can be a masculine training because men are understood and
we’re unsure of how to act in a school environment, female teachers and students are also
conflicted. I remember when I was teaching 5th grade when i1st started my career.

142 - MA
00:16:32.099 --> 00:16:37.619
And, um, I, I did something that I really regret.

143 - MA
00:16:37.619 --> 00:16:43.078
I'll give you the short version of the story. It was it was a pack up time.

144 - MA
00:16:43.078 --> 00:16:47.938
For for bust duty, and this kid, his name was Antonio Mayberry.

11
145 - MA
00:16:47.938 --> 00:16:56.818
And Antonio had 1 of those balloons that you blow up, and it's on a rubber band. 1 of his
classmates gave him a new punch it. Right?

146 - MA
00:16:56.818 --> 00:17:01.828
So, everybody's running around, you're getting your coach, get your stuff and then the
announcements come on.

147 - MA
00:17:01.828 --> 00:17:05.368
And that the rule in our classroom was, you're supposed to.

148 - MA
00:17:05.368 --> 00:17:09.628
Uh, be quiet. One's announcements come on everybody freeze. We got here with the
announcements.

149 - MA
00:17:09.628 --> 00:17:12.838
Tony, I'm still doing this do.

150 - MA
00:17:12.838 --> 00:17:16.138
Antonio, hold your balloon please. Okay.

151 - MA
00:17:16.138 --> 00:17:19.439
So, we're listening to do he's doing it again.

152 - MA
00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:24.568
Hey, Tony. Okay. Starting to change their time.

153 - MA
00:17:24.568 --> 00:17:29.788
So then I, I lost my temporary.

154 - MA
00:17:29.788 --> 00:17:37.858
I went over and I grabbed that balloon and I always had a pencil behind my ear. You know, my,
my pop that balloon.

155 - MA
00:17:37.858 --> 00:17:41.939
Antonio crumbles to the floor, he's crying.

12
156 - MA
00:17:41.939 --> 00:17:45.298
And then it was time to dismiss.

157 - MA
00:17:45.298 --> 00:17:48.509
So, on their backpacks, they're, they're walking out the door.

158 - MA
00:17:48.509 --> 00:17:52.528
And I knew the 2nd, I did it that that was the.

159 - MA
00:17:52.528 --> 00:17:55.888
Absolutely wrong thing to do and and.

160 - MA
00:17:55.888 --> 00:17:59.219
So, I had to call the call, the kids.

161 - MA
00:17:59.219 --> 00:18:04.528
Kids mom, I wanted to talk to Antonio. I want to apologize. Um.

162 - MA
00:18:04.528 --> 00:18:09.778
But then I took it a step further and so the next day the kids come in and.

163 - MA
00:18:09.778 --> 00:18:12.808
Uh, they're all sitting down at their spaces and.

164 - MA
00:18:12.808 --> 00:18:17.548
Um, I address how it went and.

165 - MA
00:18:17.548 --> 00:18:30.538
What I chose to do right there in public in front of everybody and how I apologize to Antonio
and that was really not. That was not cool. That was not what I should have done and.

166 - MA
00:18:30.538 --> 00:18:36.419
As they were packing up to go to their specialist, the specialist that period.

13
167 - MA
00:18:36.419 --> 00:18:48.239
1 of my students who wasn't even directly involved, his name was Mark. Godfrey Mark came up
to me. This kid was brilliant. He was maybe 1 of the most gifted kids ever talked or taught and
he said Mr Anderson.

168 - MA
00:18:49.348 --> 00:18:54.209
I really respect that. Thank you mark and, uh, he said.

169 - MA
00:18:54.209 --> 00:18:58.078
That's the 1st time I've ever heard a teacher.

170 - MA
00:18:58.078 --> 00:19:04.858
Fully admit that they made a mistake and that they were sorry and apologize.

171 - MA
00:19:04.858 --> 00:19:19.858
And then he took my hands, you know, here's this 10 year old kid he went on to jail and there's a
doctor somewhere. Now, he was, he was a really smart, smart, little kid. But but it taught me.

172 - MA
00:19:19.858 --> 00:19:25.618
You don't talk about masculinity and strength and power and all this stuff.

173 - MA
00:19:25.618 --> 00:19:34.078
And that moment was a seminal time for that group of kids and me because.

174 - MA
00:19:34.078 --> 00:19:40.709
I was wrong I had made a mistake that didn't that didn't diminish my power.

175 - MA
00:19:40.709 --> 00:19:46.499
With that group of children, if anything showing them that I am human.

176 - MA
00:19:46.824 --> 00:19:56.874
That I, I feel remorse that I will make it right that you can trust me when I make a mistake. I'm
not going to be perfect, but I will admit when I'm wrong.

177 - MA
00:19:57.624 --> 00:20:10.044

14
All of those things, I think were wrapped up and for a young teacher that has that has so stayed
with me. And it's kind of a more general personal pet peeve of mine is is.

178 - MA
00:20:10.348 --> 00:20:22.138
How we, as people just have such a hard time emitting when, when we, we've done something
wrong and just saying, you know, it's a, it's always I'm sorry but, or I'm sorry, you.

179 - MA
00:20:22.138 --> 00:20:28.739
I'm sorry, you feel that way like, no, you're just sorry and that I feel like, is.

180 - MA
00:20:28.739 --> 00:20:35.788
Something we can do for kids. All right. Thank you. I appreciate that.

181 - MA
00:20:35.788 --> 00:20:42.449
Sharing that story with me, I appreciate it. Yeah, it probably longer than you needed for this
paper, but.

182 - MA
00:20:42.449 --> 00:20:46.679
No, no, no, that's okay.

183 - MA
00:20:46.679 --> 00:20:53.608
Um, I assume I gave him my workflow, so that is done but, um.

QUESTION 4
184 - ME
00:20:53.608 --> 00:20:58.229
I guess, um, the next question is, uh, like, what are some of the key differences.

185 - MA
00:20:58.229 --> 00:21:06.449
A month, what are the significant challenges, I guess, and navigating a predominantly female
space as a male educator.

186 - MA
00:21:06.449 --> 00:21:16.348
Yeah, I think again what I've had to learn as a young man and be very attuned to.

187 - MA
00:21:16.348 --> 00:21:19.709
How I might come across.

15
188 - MA
00:21:19.709 --> 00:21:28.919

189 - MA
00:21:28.919 --> 00:21:35.189
I was working with really great female veteran teachers for the most part there. Um.

190 - MA
00:21:35.189 --> 00:21:39.358
And just to be quiet and, um.

191 - MA
00:21:39.358 --> 00:21:45.689
Here they had to say was was a big, big part of that. Um.

192 - MA
00:21:45.689 --> 00:21:59.009
And I think that has helped me with all kinds of people I work with now is trying to be more
interested in other people than.

193 - MA
00:21:59.009 --> 00:22:04.558
Interesting to them and that means asking people questions and.

194 - MA
00:22:04.558 --> 00:22:07.949
We're hearing what what they have to bring to the party.

195 - ME
00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:12.929
Yeah, I think you guys do a great job, at least, you know.

196 - ME
00:22:12.929 --> 00:22:16.739
My experience here my short time here, uh.

197 - ME
00:22:16.739 --> 00:22:22.259
It's been reading the room and, you know, ask some questions and.

198 - ME
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:33.388
At times, a lot of times, some of the female support or faculty here, they they act, they want to
help out they more than willing to help out very supportive. And I definitely appreciate that. So,
um.

16
199 - ME
00:22:33.388 --> 00:22:41.578
Definitely different, you know, some conversations of course, let's talk, but I still enjoy it, you
know you know.

200 - ME
00:22:41.578 --> 00:22:44.699
Like you said, you want that diversity.

QUESTION 5
201 - ME
00:22:44.699 --> 00:22:54.179
To have a good organization. Um, the next question is, what are some of the key differences for,
I guess, male teachers of color, versus the white male teachers have cover.

202 - ME
00:22:54.179 --> 00:22:59.459
Color, um, if you want to answer that question, I know that's, uh.

203 - MA
00:22:59.459 --> 00:23:05.939
Sure, sure. Well, I, I think that the.

204 - MA
00:23:05.939 --> 00:23:10.199
Spaces that we're in, especially in the independent school world.

205 - MA
00:23:10.199 --> 00:23:13.199
Um, to to be.

206 - MA
00:23:13.199 --> 00:23:26.999
Part of a group as large as as we are, and to have so few, particularly black teachers, you know, a
little bit better with teachers of color. When you when you start adding up all the different.

207 - MA
00:23:26.999 --> 00:23:33.388
Uh, minority groups, and we've gotten better and it's, it's it's definitely an ongoing.

208 - MA
00:23:33.388 --> 00:23:36.959
Effort an initiative, um.

209 - MA
00:23:36.959 --> 00:23:42.598
And I don't want to speak for for you or Freddy, or when was here. Um.

17
210 - MA
00:23:42.598 --> 00:23:45.749
But I think when you don't have a cohort.

211 - MA
00:23:47.278 --> 00:23:59.939
Of people who have a, an experience that more closely resembles your personal experience, you
know, if you and I have only 2 male male teachers at Sanford school.

212 - MA
00:23:59.939 --> 00:24:06.598
That'd be hard, right? There's no other males, like, still great people, but there's just not.

213 - MA
00:24:07.013 --> 00:24:17.304
It's not the full complement of diversity that I think would would be better and it goes back to
why we do that work in the 1st place.

214 - MA
00:24:17.963 --> 00:24:30.743
So, I, I think it's, it's something that continues to be on on the front burner and very much in our
goals to build but.

215 - MA
00:24:31.078 --> 00:24:35.699
I think it's just, it's, it's tough to to be.

216 - MA
00:24:35.699 --> 00:24:48.088
Um, at least this is my sense, and frankly, you should probably answer the question better than
me. Uh, there must be sometimes when you feel like you're a little bit out there on your own,
whether it's said, or not.

217 - MA
00:24:48.088 --> 00:24:54.088
Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. But I do, they've kudos to you and, um.

218 - MA
00:24:54.088 --> 00:25:02.969
You know, recruiting, and you told me earlier how you put nets everywhere, trying to recruit
teachers and I like to say, uh, Freddy.

219 - MA
00:25:03.413 --> 00:25:13.733
Deleted and other teachers here may transition to independent school, little, much smoother and I
appreciate that. Well, it's true.

18
220- MA
00:25:13.763 --> 00:25:21.624
And I feel like, um, you know, right below me is 1 of our new associate director college
counseling in France. Wow.

221 - MA
00:25:21.929 --> 00:25:26.939
And there's not a black person I've hired in my tenure.

222 - MA
00:25:26.939 --> 00:25:41.513
And either my schools that they want to know what's your diversity? Like, right? Like, what's the
population? Like, it's like, when black families come and look at our school, is this going to be a
good place for me?

223 - MA
00:25:41.933 --> 00:25:47.723
Because there's some schools that it's not a good place for for me or my kid. Um.

224 - MA
00:25:48.028 --> 00:25:58.648
I I believe Sanford is a good place for all kids, including our minority students, and I want it to
be the same for our minority faculty and staff.

225 - ME
00:25:59.909 --> 00:26:07.409
I like it 2 more or 3 more questions. I know. You got to go some.

QUESTIN 6
226 - ME
00:26:07.409 --> 00:26:19.078
Um, so, I guess how detrimental complimentary is the perception of male teachers as role models
for the figures and discipline areas.

227 - MA
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.628
That that was that was heavy. Um.

228 - MA
00:26:24.628 --> 00:26:28.739
I think sometimes in my experience, uh.

229 - MA
00:26:30.209 --> 00:26:33.659
Teacher male teachers should do the less.

19
230 - MA
00:26:33.659 --> 00:26:36.719
Seeing themselves as disciplined areas.

231 - MA
00:26:36.719 --> 00:26:41.308
I think sometimes the mail teachers with whom I've worked.

232 - MA
00:26:42.689 --> 00:26:47.729
Yeah, I think there's a, there's a reason why there's there's teachers and there's administrators.

233 - MA
00:26:47.729 --> 00:26:50.878
Right if if there's something going on with the kid.

234 - MA
00:26:50.878 --> 00:26:55.048
I always would rather teachers just to let the administrator.

235 - MA
00:26:55.048 --> 00:26:58.499
Handle that that side of the fence.

236 - MA
00:26:58.499 --> 00:27:10.318
So, there's a separation of church and state like that so that you can be an instructor in the
classroom. And there's a reason why you have deans of students and upper school heads and all
that stuff.

237 - MA
00:27:10.318 --> 00:27:14.189
But sometimes, I think male instructors, they want to be the.

238 - MA
00:27:14.189 --> 00:27:17.999
You're not a dress code and you're chewing gum and you're like.

239 - MA
00:27:17.999 --> 00:27:27.209
Yes, you have enough to do you have enough to do? Don't do that. And female teachers either
are having those conversations better.

240 - MA
00:27:27.534 --> 00:27:35.574
Or they're allowing their colleagues to to handle it because it's their job or however it goes.

20
241 - MA
00:27:35.753 --> 00:27:47.844
But but whenever there's that is actually a more frequent situation that that happens, because then
the tone is is off or.

242 - MA
00:27:48.209 --> 00:27:51.419
So, and so was overly harsh and it just.

243 - MA
00:27:51.419 --> 00:27:56.548
So so, on the discipline side, as far as a father figure.

244 - MA
00:27:56.548 --> 00:28:00.479
You know, if, if we.

245 - MA
00:28:00.479 --> 00:28:08.759
Have positive relationships with boys and girls with whom we work, and they see us as as.

246 - MA
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:15.028
Humans, who who are interested in them. There's probably some natural.

247 - MA
00:28:15.028 --> 00:28:26.459
Sense of familial, uh, that that person knows me and cares about me. There's a girl who just
graduated last year. Her name was Audrey. Hold.

248 - MA
00:28:26.459 --> 00:28:35.068
I knew Audrey said she was in 7th grade. She came here then, and I was 1 of the chaperones on
the middle school Europe trip.

249 - MA
00:28:35.068 --> 00:28:45.628
That she, and some of the other kids went on, my daughter was on that trip and then she and my
daughter played a lot of sports together, played soccer with our girls last last, uh, spring.

250 - MA
00:28:45.628 --> 00:28:55.648
And I heard her pay me a compliment 1 day, you know, I said, hello to her and her friend, and
we're walking walking an opposite pass. And I heard Audrey say to her friend.

21
251 - MA
00:28:55.648 --> 00:29:07.288
He's like my 2nd, dad, you know, to me, that was a huge compliment and it's not in set 1 that she
got a great dad. I know her dad really well, I'm not trying to be her dad.

252 - MA
00:29:07.288 --> 00:29:14.878
But if her coming to school, and she felt like I was an advocate and someone who again.

253 - MA
00:29:14.878 --> 00:29:22.288
I knew her and cared about her. I'll take that that that's something that, um, I hope kids.

254 - MA
00:29:22.288 --> 00:29:31.499
Feel now, and I hope they, they, as they move forward in life that they know that I was an
advocate for them while they were here.

255 - ME
00:29:31.499 --> 00:29:35.729
Awesome.

256 - ME
00:29:35.729 --> 00:29:41.189
You are here aspire Thank you. I appreciate that. Um.

QUESTTION 7
257 - ME
00:29:41.189 --> 00:29:50.729
Next 1, as a male, what are the challenges and working with each of these stakeholder groups?
It's administration faculty, staff students, parents.

258 - MA
00:29:52.648 --> 00:29:56.878
Yeah, I think some of the challenges are that, um.

259 - MA
00:29:56.878 --> 00:30:01.019
Sometimes people don't know where we're coming from.

260 - MA
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:07.409
Because they, they don't know us so so people can assume.

261 - MA
00:30:07.409 --> 00:30:12.028
That, um, since I'm a, I'm a male leader, I'm X.

22
262 - MA
00:30:12.028 --> 00:30:15.148
I'm a white leader, I must be X.

263 - MA
00:30:15.148 --> 00:30:22.709
And maybe that's just human nature. So so I think it's incumbent on me to.

264 - MA
00:30:22.709 --> 00:30:32.578
Again, take the time to get to know people to to communicate to get my message out there to tell
my own story. So, so that.

265 - MA
00:30:32.578 --> 00:30:39.898
Whether you're a teacher when you're a student, whether you're a parent that they have a sense of
of.

266 - MA
00:30:39.898 --> 00:30:50.878
Who the leader of Sanford is and same thing. If I were a classroom teacher here that how I
behave, how I take part in all of those.

267 - MA
00:30:50.878 --> 00:31:02.128
Parts of the school day that there's no confusion as as to where I'm coming from. Sometimes I
think teachers and school leaders have been in a school for for a really long time.

268 - MA
00:31:02.128 --> 00:31:13.794
They forget that the populations turning over every year or 2, right? Like kids who are in our
freshman class they don't know me. They don't care what happened here. 10 years ago.

269 - MA
00:31:15.473 --> 00:31:19.463
They were 7 years old. They're probably younger than that.

270 - MA
00:31:19.558 --> 00:31:30.929
So so it's a continual telling of the story and making sure that our values not in a broken record
kind of way, but reiterating.

271 - MA
00:31:30.929 --> 00:31:44.729
Who were about as people who were as bad as educators and part of that I come back to is
identity and my dad, I can't change that. I was born this way. Um.

23
272 - MA
00:31:44.729 --> 00:31:48.929
And with that, I hope that is a story that.

273 - MA
00:31:48.929 --> 00:31:52.709
Folks can can resonate with me.

274 - MA
00:31:52.709 --> 00:32:00.028
Awesome last question what can be done to encourage it gets more men to enter a profession.

QUESTION 8
275 - MA
00:32:00.028 --> 00:32:07.169
That's a good 1. I go back to the name you mentioned earlier and that was pretty.

276 - MA
00:32:07.169 --> 00:32:12.328
What what are the pipelines that.

277 - MA
00:32:12.328 --> 00:32:15.719
We can actually have, do you need me to pause on that?

278 - MA
00:32:15.719 --> 00:32:21.449
Know, what are the pipelines that we can have? Some sort of effect?

279 - MA
00:32:21.449 --> 00:32:28.229
So so, Freddie, I know Freddy, since he was 14 years old, 13 years, old privately, and.

280 - MA
00:32:29.544 --> 00:32:43.253
As he got older leaving here, going to George Washington, and I won't take the credit for him,
becoming a teacher. But I was planting some seeds as as he was moving on.

281 - MA
00:32:43.253 --> 00:32:53.604
And because cause the kid just had it. I mean, he, he is a natural, and if you haven't gotten into
his classroom, I would encourage you to do that.

282 - MA
00:32:53.699 --> 00:33:01.798
Because he's, he's special and how can, how can we find young men who.

24
283 - MA
00:33:01.798 --> 00:33:12.749
At 181,920 years old who who we think have the heart, and the willingness to give back.

284 - MA
00:33:12.749 --> 00:33:16.229
And the brains like a Fred.

285 - MA
00:33:16.229 --> 00:33:20.153
Who I hope,

286 - MA
00:33:20.213 --> 00:33:21.384
I hope in 20,

287 - MA
00:33:21.384 --> 00:33:22.314
30 years,

288 - MA
00:33:22.463 --> 00:33:27.564
when you and I are old and retired that we look back and he's still in the profession somewhere,

289 - MA
00:33:27.594 --> 00:33:28.913
I hope in Sanford school,

290 - MA
00:33:29.334 --> 00:33:31.913
because that's that's what we need to do.

291 - MA
00:33:31.913 --> 00:33:37.284
We need to get these guys early and then work with them and to keep them in the show.

292 - MA
00:33:37.618 --> 00:33:47.608
I definitely agree. That's why you say it out early about putting nets everywhere and find those
seeds. So we get more males in that profession.

293- ME
00:33:48.659 --> 00:33:53.068
I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. My pleasure.

25
294 - ME
00:33:53.243 --> 00:34:06.473
Great knowledge and experience and everything and I definitely, you know, you definitely
inspire me in coming transitioning into teaching and transition to becoming a leader in education.

295 - ME
00:34:06.473 --> 00:34:17.603
So, again, I appreciate you doing well and kudos to you again for jumping into this graduate
school work, and you got to play this part for your professor the fact that.

296 - MA
00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:27.239
You have a full load, uh, you're still working hard and and everything you're doing during the
school day. So to to do more of that. That's impressive.

297 - MA
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:33.449
Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Good luck with everything. Thanks a lot. See, you later. Bye. Bye.
Bye. Bye. Bye.

26