MED RIAD

De: forum@control.com
Envoyé: vendredi 18 mars 2011 08:25
À: d_med.riad@yahoo.fr
Objet: [!! SPAM] [Control.com] Daily Forum Summary

Cliquez av ec le bouton droit pour télécharger les images. Pour v ous aider à protéger v otre v ie priv ée, Outlook a empêché le téléchargement automatique de cette image à partir d'Internet.
Control.com Forum

From the Control.com Forum...

Daily Summary of Postings
| manage your subscriptions |
Sponsored by Control Technology Corp. ...

Motion, Analog and Web HMI in one integrated system.

If you tackle demanding applications, have the need for advanced motion control, or wish to save cost
by moving to integrated web-based HMI, check out Control Technology Corporation's new model 5300
Programmable Automation Controller. Discover the tremendous advantage in cost and design time
conferred by fully integrated control.
For more info, visit: http://www.ctc-control.com/
New post by Ron Brown:
wiring a dpdt limit switch to shut off a fan when my swing-out door opens
I would like to wire a Square D 9007C heavy duty limit switch in a hazardous area to control a fan
inside a hazardous container. It should shut down when the door opens. It also has a open/close control
station to be mounted outside the container. How can I wire this?
view or reply to this thread

New post by Javier Pizarro:

Re: ST BB3X vibration high
We did the opposite and sub-Synch vibration went drastically down. I don´t understand why they went
from a 4 pad bearing to a 6 pad bearing. We went the opposite way on nr 3 bearing.Actually there is a
TIL, TIL number 1583, please take a look at that TIL.
view or reply to this thread

New post by curt wuollet:

Re: Single Chip, 24V, control IC replacing Relay logic
Probably not a chip, trends are away from high supply voltage chips. So you would need SSRs or relays.
But it seems like an ideal application for a one piece PLC like the Click or similar. And it would be
much easier to program and has real world input protection and power filtering, etc. For an antenna
project, device protection may be critical. Don't ask how I know this. And if these are transmitting
antennas, the relay logic might even be the best solution. I've seen a relatively low power transmitter
drive a PLC nuts.

Regards
cww
view or reply to this thread

New post by CSA:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
> This would scare the sh.t out of me...!! More information required

I couldn't have said it better! And my bet is that it (the explosions) have happened more than once,
because just once would have been dismissed as a one-off event.

And for someone to post this without providing any more information than was provided just proves my
thoughts.

No information like they just came off a maintenance outage, or the unit had experienced multiple trips
and was being re-started, and no mention of any alarms (Process or Diagnostic) because apparently the

1
unit didn't trip on high exhaust temperature and made it up to load (or not!); we weren't told
ANYTHING!.

So, about the best response that can be given is just what you said so eloquently, Bob!
view or reply to this thread

New post by CSA:

Re: Gas Turbine Control
Questions are good; doubts are bad.

The sloped portion of the graph represents constant firing temperature, which is not measured. Only
exhaust temperature and CPD are measured.

I don't know when you were measuring exhaust temperature (whether or not the unit was at Base Load
or Part Load), but something is wrong. The formula in the post you took the graph from clearly says that
as CPD increases the corresponding exhaust temperature will decrease for the same (constant) firing
temperature (the sloped portion of the graph).

The inverse relationship is ONLY true when the unit is operating with CPD-biased exhaust temperature
control active. The control field on the operator interface main display must read "Temperature
Control", and the Base Load indication must be "illuminated". The unit can't be on Pre-Selected Load
Control or any other control means for the inverse relationship t o be true.

When operating on CPD-biased exhaust temperature control, as CPD increases the fuel flow will also
increase--slightly--which means FSR will increase slightly. As CPD decreases, fuel flow will decrease--
slightly--which means FSR will decrease slightly. And, for the same (constant) firing temperature the
exhaust temperature will decrease as CPD increases and fuel flow and FSR increase. And exhaust
temperature will increase as CPD decreases and fuel flow and FSR decrease. Because of the inverse
relationship defined by the negative slope of the CPD-biased exhaust temperature control line (curve).

It is counter-intuitive, but it is the way the turbine operates when, and only when, it is operating on
CPD-biased exhaust temperature control (Base Load).

CPD-biased exhaust temperature control is usually signal name TTRXP. And secondary, or back-up,
biased exhaust temperature control is usually signal name TTRXS. Exhaust temperature contro l, TTRX,
is the lesser of TTRXP and TTRXS. And when the unit is operating on CPD-biased exhaust temperature
control then the Speedtronic will be trying to put as much fuel in the unit as it can for the running CPD
to make the actual exhaust temperature, TTXM, equal to the exhaust temperature reference, TTRX.

And if you plot CPD and FSR and TTRXP and TTXM and TTRX and fuel flow-rate when the the unit
is operating on CPD-biased exhaust temperature control you will plot a negatively-sloped line for
TTRX and TTXM as CPD increases.

When the unit is **NOT** operating on CPD-biased exhaust temperature control, then as CPD
increases exhaust temperature will increase, and as CPD decreases exhaust temperature will decrease.
view or reply to this thread

New post by CSA:

Re: Detroit Diesel not accelerating
This was first posted to the world on 10 March 2011. It's now 16 March 2011 and apparently the
problem still exists, and you haven't been able to tell us if you have verified if there is an analog signal
being sent to the DDEC and if so, is it making it all the way to the DDEC input terminals.

Even if the reference value in the Speedtronic is increasing, if there's a wiring problem it can't get to the
DDEC. Or if there's something wrong with the output of the Speedtronic, then something may be wrong
with the Speedtronic. (If that were the case, there would likely be a Diagnostic Alarm to indicate a
problem, but you haven't told us if there are any Diagnostic Alarms, or even any Process Alarms, when
this failure to accelerate is occurring.)

Or, if the analog signal is getting to the DDEC input terminals, then it certainly seems like the DDEC
isn't working correctly.

But, you have to determine if the signal is gett ing to the DDEC. If it's not, then that's likely the problem

2
(to be clear--the problem would be that the signal isn't getting to the DDEC). If the signal is getting to
the DDEC, then the DDEC is likely the problem.

And, if you have determined the analog signal is getting to the DDEC, then you haven't told us that--just
that the reference is increasing. Is that the reference in the Speedtronic, or the reference at the DDEC
input terminals?

Even if it's just a discrete signal being communicated to the DDEC to tell it to accelerate to 2200 RPM,
you still have to verify that the signal is or isn't getting to the DDEC terminals. And then you will have
more information than you had on 10 March 2011, or on 16 March 2011.

Best of luck with your problem.

view or reply to this thread

New post by Ken E:

RE: Single Chip, 24V, control IC replacing Relay logic
To answer your question directly: A AVR microcontroller is programmable by C and can be
programmed and plopped on a protoboard into a socket with essentially one chip and a bypass capacitor.
You can also do in circuit programmability. I'd recommend opto couplers to go from your 5V digital
logic to 24VIO as it will isolate your CPU from the outside world, at least with respect to the power
supplies. So you'd need the uC, some optos, some resistors, a power regulator and/or DC supply, and
some connectors.

Another [probably more acceptable] answer I'd give is to use a 24V brick PLC from Keyence,
automation direct, etc. Just about everyone has a version of these things, so go with the one you are most
familiar with. If yu want something easy to troubleshoot these are pretty bulletproof and the software is
rather simple.

KEJR
view or reply to this thread

New post by KHALID:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
HELLO

WE HEARING AN EXPLOSION WHEN WE STARTING THE UNIT ON GAS FUEL (GAS

TURBINE F6B MK5) ON FIRING. AND AFTER THIS THE UNIT RUNNING NORMAL:(ACC,
FULL SPEED, LOUD)

WE CHECKED AND CALIBRATE LVDT FOR SRV AND GCV.

REGARDS;
KHALID
KSAID2011@YAHOO.COM

view or reply to this thread

New post by LIM PASCUAL:

Re: Westinghouse WDPF System
WHAT IS THE CONTACT NO. OR E-MAIL OF DARTH CONTROL.
view or reply to this thread

New post by Andrey:

I need help with JagBASIC programming
Hello
There is a weight terminal JAGXTREME (Mettler Toledo) with an expansion board for connection of
sensors such as POWERCELL. I need to get readings on each of the sensors in a program written in
JagBASIC. I know that this information is in the variable "pcl03. When you try to get a string from this
variable, I get the error "SD string > max".
The fact that the maximum length of a line which is possible = 80 characters, and the length of the string
in the variable "pcl03" = 320. Here is the error description from the documentation "JagBASIC can only
3
access shared data fields whose length is less than the maximum JagBASIC string size of 80 bytes."

Has anyone encountered this problem? What are some ways to solve it?
Sorry if there are syntax errors - I use a translator from Google.
view or reply to this thread

New post by Damon Seeley:

Inexpensive ModbusTCP field IO
We are looking for ModbusTCP field IO modules for collecting digital input from various sensors. For
the most part our installations are outdoors and will require an IP67 rated box. It is possible that we
could house an IP20 unit in an enclosure but we have had some bad luck with that before.

I am aware of Beckhoff fieldbus boxes but would be interested to know of other options, and if users
here have had good experience with them.

Thanks!
view or reply to this thread

New post by 123123abc:

Single Chip, 24V, control IC replacing Relay logic
Hi

I'm working for a large antenna project. For the same, I want to replace old relay logic by simple, small-
size alternative.

Please suggest me simple, easy to troubleshoot single device / IC that has:

*10 to 15 I/O pins with states 24V= T, 0V= F.

*Single IC, easy to troubleshoot by unskilled workers.

I have an option of using a uC with SSR or a single chip. I don't want to use uC with SSR.
view or reply to this thread

New post by Bayo:

Re: exhaust spread
The manufacturer is GE Frame 9E
Fuel is natural gas

ttxd_1-371; ttxd_2-376; ttxd_3-386; ttxd_4-384; ttxd_5-391; ttxd_6-395; ttxd_7-395; ttxd_8-395;

ttxd_9-398; ttxd_10-375; ttxd_11-395; ttxd_12-390; ttxd_13-389; ttxd_14-380; ttxd_15-371; ttxd_16-
369; ttxd_17-371. tnh-99.82%; ctd-359deg c; ttxspl-156.0deg c; ttxsp1-29.2deg c; ttxsp2-27.5deg c;
ttxsp3-27.5deg c; ttxm-384deg c; dwatt_ex-48.2MW.
view or reply to this thread

New post by yichao:

Re: Gas Turbine Clock Sync
I'm working in a 9E type power station and I met same problem in the past maintenance. Actually it's
very easy to get this function by (I). Please following steps to try:

1. Open (I) control panel and choose "administration tools"

then go to next sub-menu "service" and find "Net time protocol", just change it from "auto" to "manual"
and click "auto-update" to reconnection with Cimplicity workbench software.

2. directly change the time with your computer clock and wait for a moment. the new time will be
corrected automatically with Local, remote HMI and DCS.

view or reply to this thread

New post by yichao:

Re: Reaching Base Load

4
Please check Compressor Bleed Valve solenoid and all limit switch whether fully close. Not just judge
by limit switch, it's better to visually check actual valve position. Did you calculate how many mega-
watt lose when GT on baseload in the past? with my experience that I personally think it would be
possible caused by Compressor Bleed Valve. that's just my point of view.
view or reply to this thread

New post by Fai:

ST BB3X vibration high
Need advise or opinion why ST BB3X vibration goes high after Major Inspection.

My Plant is using GE 9FA single shaft machine. after recommendation from GE, we had change our
bearing tilting pad from 4 pads to 6 pads, but then vibration reading (ST HP turbine) is on high side for
BB3X. Any one got similar situation after changing the tilting pads? Lube oil temp is maintain approx.
50'C.
view or reply to this thread

New post by HRSG_Boom:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
Give it a master reset and try again.

Chance are it wont go boom twice.

view or reply to this thread

New post by Mike:

Re: Inexpensive ModbusTCP field IO
Advantech, Makes remote I/O with modbus TCP/IP. I think its the ADAM-6000 series. I have don't
have much experience with them but have checked them out before.
view or reply to this thread

New post by KHALID:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
HELLO FOR ALL,

I WANT TO EXPLAIN SOME INFORMATION.

THERE ARE TWO UNIT F6B,AND THE OPERATOR MAKING LOGIC FORCE (L86FPG2HT=0)
FOR TWO UNIT TO ESCAPE FROM TRIP. ONE OF THESE UNIT MAKES THIS PROBLEM AT
THIS MOMENT (FIRING@FSR=17%, @TNH=21%). AND GO ON CONTINUE SEQUENCE TO
FULL SPEED AND LOUD.

WE CALIBRATE SRV AND GCV ,RESTART <R><S><T>.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS STILL AT THIS UNIT. THE OTHER UNIT IS GOOD.
IS P2 CAUSES THIS PROBLEM? IF THAT WHAT WE CAN DO?
I HOPE THIS INFORMATION GOOD.

REGARDS:
KHALID
KSAID2011@YAHOO.COM
view or reply to this thread

New post by suman:

Re: Control valve positioner
Sir,
I have a doubt. Suppose a control valve with a pneumatic positioner receives instrument signal from an
IP. If the I to P is disturbed.. Then which is the better way

(1) To Calibrate the I/P with a master gauge separately and then calibrate the positioner

Or (2) calibrate the positioner first and then calibrate the I to P with respect to the positioner..

5
Please give me a reply..
view or reply to this thread

New post by Patrick:

Re: Single Chip, 24V, control IC replacing Relay logic
I would have to agree that a brick PLC would be best choice.

I am a big on the Rockwell Micrologix 1000. It has the input/output you are looking for and once in and
running will probably never need to be looked at again except for troubleshooting external devices by
using built in lights.

A very stable and reliable unit, with good programming tools.

Pat
view or reply to this thread

New post by James Ingraham:

Re: Inexpensive ModbusTCP field IO
In no particular order:

B&R Automation, X67

www.br-automation.com

Wiedmuller, SAI Active Universal

www.wiedmuller.com

Phoenix Contact, Fiedline

www.phoenixcontact.com/automation/32123_31940.htm

Turck, BL67
www.turck-usa.com/Products/Networks/BL67

Wago, Speedway 767

Annoying site makes it difficult to direct link.

Molex / Brad, BradControl IP67

Molex has a seriously awful website. I can't find the BradControl IP67 stuff. A call to Molex might help,
but you also might just ignore them, given the number of options available.

(Oddly, Balluff and Murr Elektronik appear to have EtherNet/IP and Profinet, but not Modbus/TCP.)

You mentioned Beckhoff. I have never actually used them, but I have never heard anything bad about
them. I would be comfortable trying them as a vendor. On this list, I haven't mentioned anyone that I
think isn't a reasonable choice.
< br>Before our friendly neighborhood moderator chimes in, there is a product directory at modbus.org.
I found it useless. Of the products I mentioned, only the BL67 seems to be in the directory, and I only
found it because I knew what to look for.

Hope that helps.

-James Ingraham
Sage Automation, Inc.
view or reply to this thread

New post by Daniel Sandros:

Re: Looking for Dresser Wayne Protocol
Hi Driagdda;

I need to Gilbarco two-Wire 5787 communication protocol.

would you send me if do you have gilbarco protocol.

6
thanks

view or reply to this thread

New post by Sunil:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
In our frame 6B, Mark V, with DLN 1 once we faced a similar abnormal sound in start up. On
verification we observed that IBH valve malfunctioned, which was 100% open. In startup make sure
IBH is kept off and verify physically. We open the IBH manual drain open and ensure air is dry before
opening the IBH after machine attains FSNL. In startup mode you can see some humid air. This can
create abnormal sound at firing speed.
view or reply to this thread

New post by 309EGuy:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
>THE OPERATOR MAKING LOGIC FORCE (L86FPG2HT=0) >FOR TWO UNIT TO ESCAPE
FROM TRIP.

Unbelievable ... Seem like you have a leaking SRV valve and you are passing way to much gas at
startup. Typically fpg2 is about 4-6 bar (someone correct me if im wrong) at light off. I would guess
fpg2 is at full line pressure, probably 23 bar or more. Way too much gas at light off. This is the scenario
L86FPG2HT is to protect against, but it wont do much good with it forced off.

What is fpg2 at zero speed ? Does this unit perform a gas leak test at start up ? Is this forced as well ? Is
there a HRSG on the back or is it open cycle ? What is your purge time, has this been "customized" by
site operators ? What vintage turbine is this ? MK IV, V or VI ? What type of gas valves are used,
combined SRV/GCV assembly located in a cabinet inside the auxiliaries compartment, or individual gas
valves located in a separate module.

Does the GCV leak as well ? This is scariest scenario, if both both SRV and GCV are leaking gas is
collecting in the turbine/hrsg waiting to go boom.

Trouble shooting steps I would take would be

1) remove and dispose of the operator

2) focus your efforts on determining if the SRV is leaking. A calibration will often not help determine if
there is a leaking seat. I would suggest de-energizing 20FG-1 and run the QA and HQ oil pumps. This
will de-energize the trip relay and drive the valve hard into the seat.
view or reply to this thread

New post by New Student in Power Industry:

Gas Turbine
Just started in Power Industry. What is the purpose of Measuring Disc Cavity, Blade Path & Exhaust
Temperature? What is the Importance of BPT Spread & Exhaust Pressure ?

Thanking You,
view or reply to this thread

New post by Dirk:

Re: Starting Device Trip
We replaced the GE speed pickup sensor and have had three for three good starts, so unless its
coincidence it looks like that was the problem.
view or reply to this thread

New post by RichT88:

Re: Hearing an explosion on start up
>>"THERE ARE TWO UNIT F6B,AND THE OPERATOR
>MAKING LOGIC FORCE (L86FPG2HT=0"

7
Wow!! I can't believe this was allowed, especially without knowing the cause.
view or reply to this thread

You are receiving this message because a subscription was entered for your address for the Control.com
automation forum. To unsubscribe, you may either go to your Member Center, or email forum@control.com.
For one-click unsubscription to ALL forum messages, click here.

This email was sent by: Control.com, Nerds in Control, LLC, 116 Brigham Hill Rd., North Grafton, MA 01536,
USA.

© 2011 Nerds in Control, LLC. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy and Legal Notices may be viewed on the
Control.com website.