Zane - Florenceandthemachine - 2397 - Emt 30/08/2022 01:24:46: # Timing

30/08/2022 01:24:46 Zane_FlorenceAndTheMachine_2397_EMT
# Timing Duration Text

THE ZANE LOWE INTERVIEW
1 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:01:00 00:00:00:23
FLORENCE + THE MACHINE
The glorious surrender. I've always felt

2 00:00:01:02 - 00:00:04:02 00:00:03:00
whenever I've listened to your music,
that you're searching

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for that wonderful surrender
where you're just willing

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to let go enough, let it happen,
and then take a step back

5 00:00:11:16 - 00:00:14:22 00:00:03:06
and say, 〝What did I just make?
6 00:00:15:23 - 00:00:17:21 00:00:01:22 What just happened?〝
And even in that song, just there,

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it's like for the first time, Florence,
I feel like you're actually

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coming face-to-face with the facts,
9 00:00:26:14 - 00:00:29:00 00:00:02:10 that this is how it's always going to be.
That to get this out of me,

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I just need to get to that place
11 00:00:33:11 - 00:00:34:21 00:00:01:10 and be okay with it.
Yeah. I think it's out of all

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the Florence + the Machine songs...
...it's sort of the purest sentiment

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of why I do it.
14 00:00:44:21 - 00:00:46:21 00:00:02:00 Distilled into why...
...why music is so important to me,

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why I need it,
why performance is so important to me,

16 00:00:50:06 - 00:00:53:03 00:00:02:21
and it's kind of like...
17 00:00:54:00 - 00:00:55:12 00:00:01:12 It's such a simple phrase,
but I feel like,

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it's summed up so much of...
19 00:00:57:09 - 00:00:58:14 00:00:01:05 Oh, it's complex though.
The concept of freedom

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is micro-macro on a major scale.
21 00:01:05:00 - 00:01:07:05 00:00:02:05 Yeah, and I think that's why I like...
22 00:01:08:09 - 00:01:11:17 00:00:03:08 ...songs so much because I feel like...
23 00:01:13:14 - 00:01:15:23 00:00:02:09 In lyrics and songs,
1
Exported using Ooona Tools https://ooonatools.tv
I feel like in a song,

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you can hold so many complicated
ideas and theory,

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theories and existentialism.
Like, there's an existential bridge

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in this song.
Oh, talk about it.

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To talk about suffering and death
-and still keep singing.

28 00:01:29:01 - 00:01:30:09 00:00:01:08
-Yeah.
29 00:01:30:11 - 00:01:32:14 00:00:02:03 Like, the existential bridge,
just a huge concept

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just right in the middle.
just a nod to like,

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〝What is the meaning of life?〞
-That's the album.

32 00:01:39:08 - 00:01:40:12 00:00:01:04
-Just a little song.
-Hi, by the way.

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-Hi. Hi.
I mean,
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for those people that are watching...
...I know this album,

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and I got to celebrate
and listen to this album long before

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we were sitting here.
Oh, when I told you

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I was going to scrap it?
Yeah, it's so maddening.

38 00:01:53:17 - 00:01:57:02 00:00:03:09
So this is the scene.
We're in a room
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listening to this album really loudly.
40 00:01:59:17 - 00:02:01:06 00:00:01:13 There's only four of us.
There's me and my friend who I work with,

41 00:02:01:08 - 00:02:05:07 00:00:03:23
and you and your friend who you work with,
and we're standing there

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listening to the music
and we're having the best time,

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and after every song,
2
Florence says, 〝I'm probably

44 00:02:09:21 - 00:02:12:18 00:00:02:21
going to get rid of that one.〞
Just that moment

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when you have to sign something off.
And I always think that every album

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would be different,
but the moment I have to give

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something up, it's like, 〝No,
I need to start again.

48 00:02:23:21 - 00:02:26:11 00:00:02:14
I can't... too vulnerable.〝
49 00:02:26:13 - 00:02:29:04 00:00:02:15 Standard, artist issue.
But I'd like to ask you,

50 00:02:29:06 - 00:02:31:12 00:00:02:06
because I feel like
51 00:02:31:14 - 00:02:33:21 00:00:02:07 you really have an acute sense of that.
Are you any closer to understanding

52 00:02:33:23 - 00:02:38:23 00:00:05:00
where that fear is? Where it hides?
53 00:02:39:01 - 00:02:41:17 00:00:02:16 It's the vulnerability of it, I think.
54 00:02:41:19 - 00:02:44:23 00:00:03:04 And, also, making a record is so fun,
55 00:02:45:01 - 00:02:46:21 00:00:01:20 and when I make records,
56 00:02:47:10 - 00:02:50:09 00:00:02:23 I make them really like...
I have to make things with the idea

57 00:02:50:11 - 00:02:53:08 00:00:02:21
that no one else will hear them,
and I'm in a private dialog,

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with kind of myself...
...so then when you get to the

59 00:03:00:13 - 00:03:03:22 00:00:03:09
realization that this private dialog
60 00:03:04:00 - 00:03:05:16 00:00:01:16 is going to be completely public,
It's like, I've tricked myself again.

61 00:03:05:18 - 00:03:09:16 00:00:03:22
I'm like, 〝What the f***?〞
-You did it to yourself again.

62 00:03:09:18 - 00:03:11:12 00:00:01:18
-I know.
63 00:03:11:14 - 00:03:13:08 00:00:01:18 And you've dared yourself by that point.
-So...
64 00:03:13:10 - 00:03:14:22 00:00:01:12
-Yeah. That's it. You got it.
65 00:03:15:00 - 00:03:18:00 00:00:03:00 ...to not do it, you'd regret it forever.
Let me ask you this.

66 00:03:18:02 - 00:03:20:03 00:00:02:01
I never asked you this.
67 00:03:20:05 - 00:03:22:15 00:00:02:10 -Is there songs you never put out?
3
-There's never a song...
There aren't songs

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that I didn't put out...
There's never been a song

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that I haven't put out because I thought
-〝This is too much.〞

70 00:03:27:23 - 00:03:29:15 00:00:01:16
-Because of fear.
It's always if I'm afraid

71 00:03:29:17 - 00:03:35:08 00:00:05:15
or it feels really exposing or vulnerable,
72 00:03:35:10 - 00:03:37:06 00:00:01:20 it's always like the dare.
73 00:03:37:08 - 00:03:40:10 00:00:03:02 It also maybe means something is working.
If it makes you feel

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uncomfortable, vulnerable,
you're like, 〝Oh, this probably means

75 00:03:42:17 - 00:03:45:14 00:00:02:21
it will resonate with people.〞
Because it's the most

76 00:03:45:16 - 00:03:49:04 00:00:03:12
kind of vulnerable things
77 00:03:49:06 - 00:03:51:08 00:00:02:02 that really are the most universal often.
78 00:03:51:10 - 00:03:54:01 00:00:02:15 One hundred percent. That's the trade.
People talk about authenticity

79 00:03:54:03 - 00:03:56:00 00:00:01:21
in the arts.
80 00:03:56:02 - 00:03:57:23 00:00:01:21 That's just another word for honesty.
81 00:03:58:01 - 00:04:00:13 00:00:02:12 Yeah, so I think the...
But yeah, every time it comes

82 00:04:00:15 - 00:04:04:12 00:00:03:21
to handing it over, I'm also just like...
...you think you'd be able

83 00:04:05:14 - 00:04:07:07 00:00:01:17
to celebrate what you've done,
84 00:04:07:09 - 00:04:09:08 00:00:01:23 but I'm always flooded with self-loathing.
-So where does the celebration begin?

85 00:04:09:10 - 00:04:11:06 00:00:01:20
-It's a thing.
-On stage?
86 00:04:11:08 - 00:04:13:13 00:00:02:05
-It's kind of on stage.
87 00:04:13:15 - 00:04:15:15 00:00:02:00 I think once you kind of hit...
When you see people dancing

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to it or singing it back to you,
like, we've already been playing

89 00:04:18:08 - 00:04:23:03 00:00:04:19
〝Free〞 a bit and it's so...
90 00:04:23:05 - 00:04:25:02 00:00:01:21 Sometimes you just know a song is working
4
because when we started playing it

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before it had even come out,
this ripple started

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in the audience of people catching on
93 00:04:31:00 - 00:04:33:00 00:00:02:00 to the chorus and starting to move in.
It was one of those moments

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I was like, 〝This is a special one.
This is really hitting

95 00:04:35:16 - 00:04:37:22 00:00:02:06
something in people.〝
96 00:04:38:00 - 00:04:40:13 00:00:02:13 And that's so magical for me.
That's when it really,

97 00:04:40:15 - 00:04:43:04 00:00:02:13
the celebration starts, I think.
As soon as I finished it,

98 00:04:43:06 - 00:04:47:04 00:00:03:22
I'm like, and another failure.
99 00:04:47:18 - 00:04:49:01 00:00:01:07 It's so funny.
10
00:04:50:10 - 00:04:52:16 00:00:02:06 But it's that line in 〝King,〞 you know?
0
10 I'm like, I was never satisfied.

00:04:52:18 - 00:04:55:08 00:00:02:14
1 It never let me go.
10 The self-awareness levels

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2 on this album are through the roof.
10 I talked about surrender

00:04:58:13 - 00:05:00:17 00:00:02:04
3 at the very beginning.
10
00:05:00:19 - 00:05:03:06 00:00:02:11 That's a through line in your music
4
10 and if never for yourself,

00:05:03:08 - 00:05:06:04 00:00:02:20
5 always urging us to.
10 Always creating music that urges us

00:05:06:06 - 00:05:10:00 00:00:03:18
6 to try to let go in the moment
10
00:05:10:02 - 00:05:11:19 00:00:01:17 and very giving in that way, I think.
7
10
00:05:11:21 - 00:05:13:14 00:00:01:17 You make music for the community.
8
10 But you've reached a level

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9 of self-awareness on this record.
11 Every song is just truth bomb

00:05:17:08 - 00:05:21:07 00:00:03:23
0 after truth bomb after truth bomb.
11 00:05:21:09 - 00:05:24:08 00:00:02:23 And, so before we get into
5
1 some of those truth bombs,
11
00:05:26:04 - 00:05:29:07 00:00:03:03 Was it exhausting? Was it liberating?
2
11
00:05:29:09 - 00:05:32:05 00:00:02:20 Like, how was it to go this deep?
3
11
00:05:32:21 - 00:05:34:11 00:00:01:14 It has felt...
4
11
00:05:34:13 - 00:05:38:05 00:00:03:16 What I like about the truth on this record
5
11
00:05:38:07 - 00:05:41:04 00:00:02:21 is that it's sometimes funny.
6
11 Like, to me to say,
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7 kind of brutal things like,
11 〝What a thing to admit,

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8 but when someone looks
11 at me with real love,

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9 I don't like it very much.〝
12 -Yeah.
00:05:50:10 - 00:05:53:02 00:00:02:16
0 -Like, I think that that's funny.
12 -So...
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1 -You think it's funny?
12
00:05:55:07 - 00:05:56:14 00:00:01:07 I think it's funny,
2
12 but my therapist is like, 〝you have

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3 to stop laughing at terrible things.〞
12
00:05:59:17 - 00:06:01:14 00:00:01:21 That's what it was like.
4
12 Like, she's like, 〝A, you have

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5 to stop trying to make me laugh,
12
00:06:04:22 - 00:06:06:16 00:00:01:18 and every time you say something bad,
6
12 you think that it's hilarious,〝

00:06:06:18 - 00:06:09:05 00:00:02:11
7 but that's my work.
12 -That's my on-going work.

00:06:09:07 - 00:06:11:12 00:00:02:05
8 -That's your distraction?
12
00:06:11:14 - 00:06:13:19 00:00:02:05 Well, there's a big...
9
13
00:06:14:17 - 00:06:16:06 00:00:01:13 But I think that the kind of...
0
13 00:06:16:21 - 00:06:19:05 00:00:02:08 I think there's a humor also
6
1 in self-knowledge
13 that runs through this record that I've

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2 actually found really liberating.
13 And able to kind of, to take the things

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3 that perhaps I use to protect myself,
13
00:06:28:03 - 00:06:30:17 00:00:02:14 you know, mythologies and a creation,
4
13
00:06:30:19 - 00:06:32:09 00:00:01:14 and I feel like I can kind of...
5
13
00:06:33:11 - 00:06:35:14 00:00:02:03 ...wink at it a bit more and be like...
6
13 I know a lot of this is

00:06:36:13 - 00:06:40:14 00:00:04:01
7 sort of fantasy, but it's like
13
00:06:40:16 - 00:06:42:15 00:00:01:23 the self-awareness has allowed me
8
13 to maybe take myself

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9 less seriously, as well,
14 which has been

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0 kind of enjoyable on this record.
14 Well, you're tackling big subjects

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1 and by the way, you know,
14
00:06:50:19 - 00:06:52:21 00:00:02:02 faith gets a battering, right?
2
14 -Right? In a good way.

00:06:54:07 - 00:06:55:15 00:00:01:08
3 -Yeah.
14 Lots of big questions,

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4 but also lots of reverence.
14 Like, you know, a desire to believe

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5 in something, but also not.
14 I'm not going to believe

00:07:03:13 - 00:07:06:00 00:00:02:11
6 in a wholesale, like,
14
00:07:06:02 - 00:07:08:14 00:00:02:12 you got to answer for these things.
7
14 -Yeah.
00:07:08:16 - 00:07:10:19 00:00:02:03
8 -And those are big questions.
14 Like, why, when it comes to God,

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9 is a big question.
15
00:07:14:06 - 00:07:16:09 00:00:02:03 I think. Yeah. Girls...
0
15 00:07:17:00 - 00:07:19:06 00:00:02:06 There's a lot of why
7
1 on this record, I think,
15 especially in 〝Cassandra〞
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2 and 〝Girls Against God,〞
15 there's a lot of Old Testament style,

00:07:21:20 - 00:07:25:20 00:00:04:00
3 like fist at the sky.
15
00:07:25:22 - 00:07:27:19 00:00:01:21 Yeah. Just be like, is this the plan?
4
15 -Yeah.
00:07:27:21 - 00:07:29:06 00:00:01:09
5 -I could have thought of a better...
15 -It's the ego of the artist...

00:07:29:08 - 00:07:30:22 00:00:01:14
6 -Right.
15 ...you know, of, like,

00:07:31:00 - 00:07:33:07 00:00:02:07
7 knowing that you are...
15 It's that funny thing of like,

00:07:33:09 - 00:07:37:14 00:00:04:05
8 the artist's temperament
15 of, like, incredibly low

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9 self-esteem and huge ego.
16 It is the most magic chemistry

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0 of all time.
16 Like, how you get it together through

00:07:43:13 - 00:07:47:06 00:00:03:17
1 that of quagmire, I have no idea.
16 It's the juxtaposition

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2 of 〝Girls Against God〞
16
00:07:49:06 - 00:07:50:11 00:00:01:05 being like, I'm going to get you.
3
16
00:07:50:13 - 00:07:52:11 00:00:01:22 I'm f****** awesome! Am I awesome?
4
16 Like, 〝I could do a better job,〞 and then

00:07:53:23 - 00:07:57:07 00:00:03:08
5 just weeping into a bowl of cereal.
16 Like, I'm a speck of dust.

00:07:57:09 - 00:07:59:19 00:00:02:10
6 I'm nothing. So...
16 I think a lot of it is
00:07:59:21 - 00:08:03:17 00:00:03:20
7 wrestling with these...
16
00:08:03:19 - 00:08:06:00 00:00:02:05 For me, music and gigs,
8
16 they are my kind of spiritual practice

00:08:07:06 - 00:08:11:09 00:00:04:03
9 and making music,
17 and I always felt like

00:08:11:11 - 00:08:14:10 00:00:02:23
0 I was in communication with something
17 00:08:14:23 - 00:08:19:08 00:00:04:09 outside of myself that would provide me
8
1 this moment of relief from self,
17 and that is a kind of transcendence,

00:08:20:23 - 00:08:24:00 00:00:03:01
2 I think.
17
00:08:24:02 - 00:08:27:01 00:00:02:23 And so when all gigs and live,
3
17 -and you know, these places...

00:08:27:03 - 00:08:29:14 00:00:02:11
4 -It all stopped.
17
00:08:29:16 - 00:08:31:18 00:00:02:02 ...that had been my church, you know?
5
17 -You felt let down.

00:08:31:20 - 00:08:34:23 00:00:03:03
6 -I felt abandoned, I think.
17
00:08:35:01 - 00:08:36:18 00:00:01:17 I felt abandoned, and...
7
17 ...I had thought

00:08:37:13 - 00:08:41:04 00:00:03:15
8 I was on the side of the angels,
17
00:08:41:06 - 00:08:42:22 00:00:01:16 and then it was as if the record...
9
18 In the mythology of the record,

00:08:43:00 - 00:08:46:05 00:00:03:05
0 I think that 〝Girls Against God,〞
18 it ends in this creep

00:08:46:07 - 00:08:48:22 00:00:02:15
1 of, like, 〝I met the devil.
18 He gave me a choice,
00:08:49:00 - 00:08:51:18 00:00:02:18
2 a golden heart or a golden voice.〝
18
00:08:53:03 - 00:08:54:19 00:00:01:16 Going to drop one.
3
18 I mean, there are some

00:08:55:19 - 00:08:58:15 00:00:02:20
4 real lines on this album.
18
00:08:58:17 - 00:09:00:14 00:00:01:21 There are some cut-through,
5
18 timeless copyright thoughts

00:09:02:04 - 00:09:06:17 00:00:04:13
6 that you've just put down on here
18
00:09:06:19 - 00:09:09:11 00:00:02:16 that cut to the core.
7
18
00:09:09:13 - 00:09:11:07 00:00:01:18 Like, that is one of them.
8
18 How can you feel about yourself

00:09:11:09 - 00:09:14:01 00:00:02:16
9 when you acknowledge
19 that decision
00:09:14:03 - 00:09:17:07 00:00:03:04
0 that you have to make, you know?
19 00:09:17:09 - 00:09:19:15 00:00:02:06 -Well, it's...
9
1 -Does it bring you closer to your talent
19
00:09:19:17 - 00:09:21:15 00:00:01:22 or closer to what the heart wants?
2
19
00:09:21:17 - 00:09:22:20 00:00:01:03 That's the question.
3
19
00:09:22:22 - 00:09:24:12 00:00:01:14 The deal you make being a songwriter
4
19 is that everyone around you

00:09:24:14 - 00:09:26:18 00:00:02:04
5 is kind of like,
19
00:09:27:14 - 00:09:29:14 00:00:02:00 you have to feed the monster all the time.
6
19 So all the conversations you have,

00:09:29:16 - 00:09:32:10 00:00:02:18
7 all the relationships you have
19 -become...
00:09:32:12 - 00:09:34:07 00:00:01:19
8 -Are around you.
19
00:09:34:09 - 00:09:36:11 00:00:02:02 Yeah. Become kind of,
9
20 it's as if, in kind of Faustian way,

00:09:36:20 - 00:09:40:23 00:00:04:03
0 it's like, okay, this is all
20
00:09:41:11 - 00:09:44:18 00:00:03:07 fuel for this kind of like song creature
1
20
00:09:44:20 - 00:09:47:04 00:00:02:08 that I have spent...
2
20 The longest relationship

00:09:47:06 - 00:09:49:18 00:00:02:12
3 that I've ever had in my life
20 and the longest, like,

00:09:49:20 - 00:09:52:12 00:00:02:16
4 love story is with the song itself
20 and it is with songwriting,

00:09:52:14 - 00:09:57:05 00:00:04:15
5 and no one has been spared in my life.
20 And so it was kind of like

00:09:57:07 - 00:10:00:08 00:00:03:01
6 a golden heart or a golden voice.
20 It's like, I kind of have

00:10:00:10 - 00:10:03:00 00:00:02:14
7 in all my relationships,
20
00:10:03:02 - 00:10:05:08 00:00:02:06 like, nothing has really been spared.
8
20
00:10:05:10 - 00:10:08:08 00:00:02:22 Everything has been added to this song.
9
21 And I think on this record, it was like,

00:10:08:10 - 00:10:13:00 00:00:04:14
0 maybe this song creature is
21 00:10:13:02 - 00:10:16:05 00:00:03:03 more malevolent presence than angelic.
10
21
00:10:16:07 - 00:10:18:10 00:00:02:03 So a lot of that creeps into more...
2
21
00:10:18:12 - 00:10:20:08 00:00:01:20 Wow. Isn't that fascinating?
3
21 I mean, if that's not a step into

00:10:20:10 - 00:10:25:07 00:00:04:21
4 some form of mature self-awareness.
21 I don't know what is,

00:10:25:09 - 00:10:27:15 00:00:02:06
5 because when you are a young artist,
21 you're coming out with your first two,

00:10:27:17 - 00:10:30:11 00:00:02:18
6 three albums, it's feed the beast.
21 -Yeah.
00:10:30:13 - 00:10:33:02 00:00:02:13
7 -Feed the beast.
21 -Yeah.
00:10:33:04 - 00:10:35:03 00:00:01:23
8 -And then it's like...
21 〝Have I become a part of the beast?〞

00:10:35:21 - 00:10:38:14 00:00:02:17
9 Right?
22 Well, that's it.

00:10:38:16 - 00:10:41:21 00:00:03:05
0 And what is my relationship to
22
00:10:42:11 - 00:10:44:20 00:00:02:09 this need to make things
1
22 at the kind of cost of stability

00:10:44:22 - 00:10:48:23 00:00:04:01
2 and the cost of even being in one place
22
00:10:49:01 - 00:10:51:08 00:00:02:07 and the cost of your relationships.
3
22 And you are always taking

00:10:51:10 - 00:10:54:08 00:00:02:22
4 the most personal
22 that should be reserved for the people

00:10:54:10 - 00:10:58:01 00:00:03:15
5 that you are the most personal with.
22
00:10:58:03 - 00:10:59:14 00:00:01:11 And you don't give it to them,
6
22 you give it to thousands of people

00:10:59:16 - 00:11:02:07 00:00:02:15
7 you don't know.
22 Yeah, but we give it back

00:11:02:09 - 00:11:05:07 00:00:02:22
8 to you and we think we know you.
22 -Yes.
00:11:05:09 - 00:11:06:18 00:00:01:09
9 -And that's the other thing.
23 So the relationship is built on

00:11:06:20 - 00:11:10:11 00:00:03:15
0 this false economy of like, 〝We know you,〞
11
23 and you're like, 〝But who am I

00:11:10:13 - 00:11:12:18 00:00:02:05
1 when I'm not in front of you?〞
23 Well, then the whole thing is

00:11:12:20 - 00:11:16:18 00:00:03:22
2 mythology...
23 ...is it a protection or is it trap?

00:11:17:22 - 00:11:20:01 00:00:02:03
3 You know?
23 And I think a lot of the record

00:11:20:03 - 00:11:24:07 00:00:04:04
4 is trying to unpack that,
23 and then building the mythology

00:11:24:21 - 00:11:27:19 00:00:02:22
5 and tearing it down again in the verse,
23
00:11:27:21 - 00:11:29:03 00:00:01:06 building it up and tearing it down.
6
23 That's what I love about this album

00:11:29:05 - 00:11:31:06 00:00:02:01
7 you're tearing it down.
23 It's like you're tearing down

00:11:31:08 - 00:11:33:17 00:00:02:09
8 your own kingdom.
23
00:11:33:19 - 00:11:34:15 00:00:00:20 Yes.
9
24 I want to start where the album starts.

00:11:34:17 - 00:11:37:03 00:00:02:10
0 I want to talk about 〝King〞.
24 I want to talk about it

00:11:37:05 - 00:11:40:11 00:00:03:06
1 as a statement for you.
24 Before it becomes a statement

00:11:41:02 - 00:11:43:01 00:00:01:23
2 for everybody else,
24
00:11:43:03 - 00:11:45:16 00:00:02:13 what were you aiming to say?
3
24
00:11:45:18 - 00:11:48:07 00:00:02:13 What did you achieve with that song?
4
24 I think I managed to achieve,

00:11:48:09 - 00:11:51:07 00:00:02:22
5 which is what I wanted to
24
00:11:51:09 - 00:11:52:23 00:00:01:14 which was something that was...
6
24
00:11:54:09 - 00:11:56:03 00:00:01:18 ...such a strong statement,
7
24 but that the vulnerability of it

00:11:56:05 - 00:11:59:17 00:00:03:12
8 was never lost in any of it
24
00:11:59:19 - 00:12:02:07 00:00:02:12 because it's such a vulnerable question
9
25
00:12:02:09 - 00:12:04:15 00:00:02:06 and it's so...
0
12
25
00:12:06:17 - 00:12:07:23 00:00:01:06 So I think, I...
1
25
00:12:09:07 - 00:12:12:03 00:00:02:20 And I was worried that people would think
2
25 that it was just a rejection

00:12:12:05 - 00:12:15:11 00:00:03:06
3 of these things like mother or bride.
25 And I was really glad

00:12:15:13 - 00:12:19:01 00:00:03:12
4 that the way that it has been received
25 is more that people understood

00:12:19:03 - 00:12:21:12 00:00:02:09
5 that it was actually
25 kind of the agony

00:12:21:14 - 00:12:24:10 00:00:02:20
6 of the splitting of these desires
25
00:12:24:12 - 00:12:26:04 00:00:01:16 and as much as you can,
7
25 even the delivery of the 〝I am king,〞

00:12:27:02 - 00:12:30:21 00:00:03:19
8 you know, you...
25 -No, you've gone mad.

00:12:30:23 - 00:12:33:14 00:00:02:15
9 -Yes.
26 -In the best way possible. Yeah.

00:12:34:08 - 00:12:36:19 00:00:02:11
0 -You can hear the...
26 I wanted to embody
00:12:36:21 - 00:12:39:23 00:00:03:02
1 the kind of desperation of that feeling
26
00:12:40:01 - 00:12:41:09 00:00:01:08 that starts to come up on you.
2
26
00:12:41:11 - 00:12:45:17 00:00:04:06 And I think that the frustration
3
26 of where I found myself as a performer,

00:12:45:19 - 00:12:49:07 00:00:03:12
4 I think the peak of my...
26 I felt like my creative abilities

00:12:50:08 - 00:12:54:03 00:00:03:19
5 were finally at the peak of,
26
00:12:54:21 - 00:12:57:00 00:00:02:03 how I understood myself as an artist
6
26 and what I wanted to do,

00:12:57:02 - 00:12:58:18 00:00:01:16
7 and that confidence.
26
00:12:58:20 - 00:13:00:09 00:00:01:13 You know, that takes time...
8
26
00:13:01:10 - 00:13:02:10 00:00:01:00 Took four albums.
9
27 Yeah. And you know, I was

00:13:02:12 - 00:13:06:18 00:00:04:06
0 sort of like winding it up when I was 35.
13
27 And then this sudden

00:13:06:20 - 00:13:09:13 00:00:02:17
1 societal thing of just like,
27
00:13:10:07 - 00:13:12:17 00:00:02:10 〝Are there some things you forgot about?〞
2
27
00:13:12:19 - 00:13:14:18 00:00:01:23 And I was like, 〝Because time is ticking.〞
3
27 And the sort of...

00:13:14:20 - 00:13:17:19 00:00:02:23
4 I think what it was just,
27
00:13:17:21 - 00:13:19:12 00:00:01:15 it fury as well.
5
27
00:13:19:14 - 00:13:20:18 00:00:01:04 I'm in control.
6
27 -You don't get to tell me...

00:13:20:20 - 00:13:23:03 00:00:02:07
7 -Exactly. Yeah.
27 -...when my time has come. Yeah.

00:13:23:05 - 00:13:25:21 00:00:02:16
8 -Exactly, of like, I...
27 This idea that there was

00:13:25:23 - 00:13:28:12 00:00:02:13
9 so much I wanted to do,
28 but if I wanted to have a family,

00:13:28:14 - 00:13:30:19 00:00:02:05
0 there was a sense
28 that suddenly I was being

00:13:30:21 - 00:13:33:10 00:00:02:13
1 irresponsible with my time
28 by choosing this thing

00:13:33:12 - 00:13:35:22 00:00:02:10
2 that I've known my whole life,
28 which is performance,
00:13:36:00 - 00:13:37:23 00:00:01:23
3 which is making songs,
28 which is striving to be the best performer

00:13:38:01 - 00:13:41:11 00:00:03:10
4 that I can be.
28 And suddenly realizing that

00:13:41:13 - 00:13:44:18 00:00:03:05
5 it was felt like a kind of betrayal.
28 Or that you were going to be

00:13:44:20 - 00:13:46:10 00:00:01:14
6 judged for it...
28 -Exactly.
00:13:46:12 - 00:13:47:17 00:00:01:05
7 -...at some point.
28 -I guess you made your decision, right?

00:13:47:19 - 00:13:49:23 00:00:02:04
8 -Well, you made your choice.
28 And if you missed,

00:13:50:01 - 00:13:53:05 00:00:03:04
9 you know, that was that was...
29
00:13:53:07 - 00:13:55:18 00:00:02:11 Like that somehow it would be your fault
0
14
29
00:13:55:20 - 00:13:57:23 00:00:02:03 or something, that you missed that boat.
1
29 And so I just think that scream

00:13:58:01 - 00:14:01:08 00:00:03:07
2 at the end of 〝King,〞
29
00:14:01:10 - 00:14:02:18 00:00:01:08 it's not one that I...
3
29
00:14:03:06 - 00:14:05:00 00:00:01:18 It not because I am...
4
29 It's just one of frustration

00:14:05:02 - 00:14:09:06 00:00:04:04
5 and confusion as well.
29 Beautifully captured and everything

00:14:09:08 - 00:14:11:19 00:00:02:11
6 that's been written about it
29 and said about it

00:14:11:21 - 00:14:14:05 00:00:02:08
7 and enjoyed about that song,
29
00:14:14:07 - 00:14:15:19 00:00:01:12 was it to your intention?
8
29 Because it is that moment,

00:14:15:21 - 00:14:20:10 00:00:04:13
9 what you do on your time is up to you.
30 -Yeah.
00:14:20:12 - 00:14:23:07 00:00:02:19
0 -What I do with my time is up to me.
30 It's kind of,

00:14:23:09 - 00:14:25:13 00:00:02:04
1 that song was one of those things
30
00:14:25:15 - 00:14:27:07 00:00:01:16 that fell out of the sky as well
2
30 and sometimes songs just arrive

00:14:27:09 - 00:14:31:07 00:00:03:22
3 end to end fully formed.
30 And it's always when you think

00:14:31:09 - 00:14:33:05 00:00:01:20
4 you'll never write a song again
30
00:14:33:07 - 00:14:35:05 00:00:01:22 Okay, but it's normally by like...
5
30 ...you know, it's normally like,

00:14:36:09 - 00:14:39:12 00:00:03:03
6 what's that song?
30
00:14:45:02 - 00:14:47:12 00:00:02:10 Like, they land with no interruption
7
30
00:14:47:14 - 00:14:49:19 00:00:02:05 and it's, you know, like New Radicals.
8
30 Like, that song just

00:14:49:21 - 00:14:52:12 00:00:02:15
9 probably came out of nowhere, right?
31
00:14:52:14 - 00:14:54:09 00:00:01:19 Greg was like, I wrote that and...
0
15
31 Like, when people say

00:14:57:11 - 00:14:59:11 00:00:02:00
1 that this just arrived and to end,
31 you go, 〝Yeah, of course it did.

00:14:59:13 - 00:15:02:00 00:00:02:11
2 What a f****** smash.〞
31 It's not 〝King.〞

00:15:02:02 - 00:15:04:21 00:00:02:19
3 It's not like I woke up one day
31
00:15:04:23 - 00:15:06:22 00:00:01:23 and I tripped over 〝King.〞
4
31 -I also was like...

00:15:07:13 - 00:15:10:03 00:00:02:14
5 -What you on about?
31 Well it always comes

00:15:10:05 - 00:15:12:16 00:00:02:11
6 at a moment where I'm like...
31 The bar's real high for you.

00:15:12:18 - 00:15:15:01 00:00:02:07
7 You know that, right?
31 -It's real high.

00:15:15:03 - 00:15:17:15 00:00:02:12
8 -It's like, I'll never write a song again.
31
00:15:17:17 - 00:15:20:18 00:00:03:01 I can't do anything. And then I was...
9
32
00:15:22:14 - 00:15:24:09 00:00:01:19 And there was like a...
0
32 It came from a real conversation

00:15:24:11 - 00:15:27:18 00:00:03:07
1 in a real kitchen
32 and then it went

00:15:27:20 - 00:15:32:05 00:00:04:09
2 into this metaphysical archetypes world.
32
00:15:32:07 - 00:15:35:10 00:00:03:03 And I think I was thinking about...
3
32 ...these male performers

00:15:36:11 - 00:15:40:20 00:00:04:09
4 that I have idolized for so...
32 I was thinking about Nick Cave,

00:15:41:07 - 00:15:44:07 00:00:03:00
5 I was thinking about Leonard Cohen,
32
00:15:44:09 - 00:15:48:04 00:00:03:19 I was thinking about how in some ways,
6
32
00:15:48:16 - 00:15:51:14 00:00:02:22 although everyone undergoes huge changes,
7
32 their physical bodies,

00:15:51:16 - 00:15:55:05 00:00:03:13
8 and especially moving through touring
32 have been kind of allowed

00:15:55:07 - 00:15:59:11 00:00:04:04
9 to remain unchanged.
33 -They get a pass.

00:15:59:13 - 00:16:00:18 00:00:01:05
0 -Yeah.
16
33 And they can commit themselves

00:16:00:20 - 00:16:03:11 00:00:02:15
1 entirely to...
33 It can commit their body

00:16:03:13 - 00:16:06:12 00:00:02:23
2 entirely to the stage.
33 And these people that I had just tried

00:16:06:14 - 00:16:10:23 00:00:04:09
3 to follow in their exact footsteps,
33 I was like, 〝Oh, my God, I can't do that.

00:16:11:01 - 00:16:14:10 00:00:03:09
4 I'm not going to be able to do that.
33 Like, I'm going to have

00:16:14:12 - 00:16:17:06 00:00:02:18
5 to make choices that...〝
33
00:16:17:08 - 00:16:19:10 00:00:02:02 And that was kind of...
6
33
00:16:19:22 - 00:16:22:08 00:00:02:10 So it's so funny because in the singing,
7
33
00:16:22:10 - 00:16:23:22 00:00:01:12 I'm trying to still embody them,
8
33
00:16:24:00 - 00:16:26:13 00:00:02:13 you know, like, in the lower baritones.
9
34 You know, I'm trying

00:16:26:15 - 00:16:29:10 00:00:02:19
0 to do a Leonard or a Nick
34
00:16:29:12 - 00:16:32:04 00:00:02:16 or an Iggy Pop was a really big reference.
1
34
00:16:32:06 - 00:16:35:17 00:00:03:11 So it's this kind of like, 〝I can do it.〞
2
34
00:16:35:19 - 00:16:38:02 00:00:02:07 It's like this sort of desperation of...
3
34 ...trying to hold onto this idea

00:16:39:23 - 00:16:43:18 00:00:03:19
4 that I had about myself,
34 all the world that it is even being

00:16:43:20 - 00:16:47:03 00:00:03:07
5 undercut by the song itself.
34
00:16:47:05 - 00:16:50:01 00:00:02:20 So do you feel in establishing
6
34
00:16:50:17 - 00:16:54:10 00:00:03:17 that principle for yourself
7
34
00:16:55:05 - 00:16:58:01 00:00:02:20 and saying outright, now 〝I am king〞...
8
34
00:16:59:05 - 00:17:01:12 00:00:02:07 ...that do you feel empowered?
9
35 Do you feel lonely

00:17:01:14 - 00:17:04:20 00:00:03:06
0 when you establish that for yourself?
17
35
00:17:04:22 - 00:17:07:12 00:00:02:14 And go like, 〝Wow, now I'm getting there.
1
35
00:17:07:14 - 00:17:10:03 00:00:02:13 My voice, I'm getting to that place
2
35
00:17:11:06 - 00:17:15:02 00:00:03:20 and I'm now, I'm kind of one of a few.〝
3
35 It's like a statement of confidence,

00:17:15:04 - 00:17:20:00 00:00:04:20
4 but also of sort of humor
35 that the album has of like,

00:17:20:02 - 00:17:23:15 00:00:03:13
5 〝If I'm going to sacrifice
35 these other things in my life,

00:17:23:17 - 00:17:25:21 00:00:02:04
6 I have to be the best.〝
35 You know? So it was a kind of statement

00:17:25:23 - 00:17:31:08 00:00:05:09
7 of intent of confidence, of like...
35
00:17:31:10 - 00:17:32:15 00:00:01:05 And it was interesting.
8
35 You know, you've always had like the king

00:17:32:17 - 00:17:36:00 00:00:03:07
9 of rock or, you know, the king of this.
36 I was like, 〝Why not me?

00:17:36:02 - 00:17:39:08 00:00:03:06
0 Why can't I be king?〞
36 And every time that you get

00:17:40:06 - 00:17:43:14 00:00:03:08
1 into that place where...
36
00:17:44:21 - 00:17:45:22 00:00:01:01 ...it's all heart...
2
36 ...because we know that

00:17:46:20 - 00:17:49:22 00:00:03:02
3 you also use your head.
36 For you to be able to say, as a performer,

00:17:50:05 - 00:17:53:13 00:00:03:08
4 〝I'm going to adopt this tone
36 to further establish this,

00:17:53:15 - 00:17:57:13 00:00:03:22
5 this image through the song.〝
36 But then you get in that place

00:17:57:21 - 00:18:00:02 00:00:02:05
6 where it's all heart.
36 It's just you and the crowd

00:18:00:04 - 00:18:03:15 00:00:03:11
7 and I've seen it so many times
36
00:18:03:17 - 00:18:05:09 00:00:01:16 and you are the king.
8
36
00:18:06:10 - 00:18:07:13 00:00:01:03 I think it was also...
9
37 ...it was kind of like getting

00:18:08:08 - 00:18:11:04 00:00:02:20
0 to that moment when I said,
18
37
00:18:11:06 - 00:18:12:18 00:00:01:12 〝You want me to give this up?
1
37 You want me to give this up?

00:18:12:20 - 00:18:15:02 00:00:02:06
2 This thing I am...
37
00:18:15:04 - 00:18:17:06 00:00:02:02 that I could be one of the best at?〝
3
37 You know?
00:18:17:08 - 00:18:19:21 00:00:02:13
4 And acknowledging that moment of,
37 I've worked so hard

00:18:20:15 - 00:18:23:04 00:00:02:13
5 to be the best live performer I can be
37
00:18:23:06 - 00:18:24:20 00:00:01:14 and that's something I take real pride in.
6
37 And so it was this moment of being like,

00:18:24:22 - 00:18:28:01 00:00:03:03
7 〝And now you want me to stop?
37
00:18:28:03 - 00:18:29:13 00:00:01:10 Like, but I'm king.〝
8
37
00:18:29:15 - 00:18:31:10 00:00:01:19 Like, this is all I've known
9
38 and I've strived

00:18:31:12 - 00:18:33:13 00:00:02:01
0 so hard to be the best at it
38
00:18:33:15 - 00:18:35:09 00:00:01:18 and I think I might be getting there.
1
38
00:18:35:11 - 00:18:37:05 00:00:01:18 And you've made peace with the idea
2
38 that the things

00:18:37:07 - 00:18:39:23 00:00:02:16
3 that most people slide into...
38 And I'm not just talking

00:18:40:01 - 00:18:42:04 00:00:02:03
4 about you as a woman
38 at a point in your life,

00:18:42:06 - 00:18:44:12 00:00:02:06
5 but all human beings at some point,
38
00:18:44:14 - 00:18:45:19 00:00:01:05 there's a quote in a movie that says,
6
38 〝We all get told we can't play

00:18:45:21 - 00:18:48:05 00:00:02:08
7 the children's game anymore.〞
38 And that means you either get injured

00:18:48:07 - 00:18:51:16 00:00:03:09
8 or you choose a different life.
38 And everybody in their life

00:18:52:02 - 00:18:54:19 00:00:02:17
9 kind of makes a decision
39 to settle down
00:18:54:21 - 00:18:56:23 00:00:02:02
0 or do this or that, whatever.
19
39 You're cool with it.

00:18:57:16 - 00:19:00:00 00:00:02:08
1 You're like, 〝I'm going for it.
39 This album is my statement

00:19:00:02 - 00:19:03:10 00:00:03:08
2 to say that I am,
39
00:19:04:04 - 00:19:06:13 00:00:02:09 I'm staying the course.〝
3
39
00:19:06:15 - 00:19:11:04 00:00:04:13 A lot of it is kind of questioning
4
39
00:19:11:21 - 00:19:13:17 00:00:01:20 what it gives to me as well,
5
39 and being like,

00:19:13:19 - 00:19:15:18 00:00:01:23
6 〝Why do I need this so much
39
00:19:15:20 - 00:19:18:06 00:00:02:10 sometimes at the cost of...
7
39
00:19:19:21 - 00:19:22:23 00:00:03:02 ...maybe more...
8
39
00:19:24:19 - 00:19:26:16 00:00:01:21 ...sustainable forms of intimacy
9
40
00:19:26:18 - 00:19:30:07 00:00:03:13 or more stable relationships?〝
0
40 You know? Because I think making an album,

00:19:30:09 - 00:19:34:14 00:00:04:05
1 every time it upends your entire life.
40
00:19:34:23 - 00:19:36:13 00:00:01:14 If you're in a relationship
2
40 that you just have to hang on

00:19:36:15 - 00:19:38:20 00:00:02:05
3 for dear life.
40
00:19:38:22 - 00:19:40:18 00:00:01:20 Like, it really does...
4
40 I mean, it's gotten much less chaotic

00:19:40:20 - 00:19:43:21 00:00:03:01
5 as the years go on,
40 but touring, being a touring artist

00:19:43:23 - 00:19:47:10 00:00:03:11
6 and being a musician
40 is just so bad for the personal

00:19:47:12 - 00:19:52:16 00:00:05:04
7 relationships in your life.
40 And so I think this record

00:19:52:18 - 00:19:57:01 00:00:04:07
8 is questioning a lot,
40
00:19:57:03 - 00:19:58:19 00:00:01:16 my commitment to my sense of...
9
41
00:19:58:21 - 00:20:00:15 00:00:01:18 And again like winking at it
0
20
41 and being like, 〝How committed

00:20:00:17 - 00:20:03:05 00:00:02:12
1 am I to my own loneliness?
41 How committed am I to my
00:20:03:07 - 00:20:07:20 00:00:04:13
2 sense of a tragic figure.〝
41
00:20:09:04 - 00:20:12:00 00:00:02:20 With the last record, I felt like it was,
3
41 like, 〝God, I'm so lone,〞

00:20:12:02 - 00:20:15:05 00:00:03:03
4 like, the loneliness.
41 And now this record is like,

00:20:15:07 - 00:20:18:06 00:00:02:23
5 〝But are you choosing this?〞
41 And this is why you have therapy.

00:20:19:00 - 00:20:21:06 00:00:02:06
6 That's the great question.
41
00:20:21:08 - 00:20:23:05 00:00:01:21 That's what therapy's so good for, right?
7
41 And you talk about humor,

00:20:23:07 - 00:20:26:00 00:00:02:17
8 and before you mentioned how,
41 you know, you joke

00:20:26:02 - 00:20:28:22 00:00:02:20
9 through the harsher realizations
42
00:20:29:00 - 00:20:32:00 00:00:03:00 in your holistic process, right?
0
42 -Which is super common. I do it, too.

00:20:32:10 - 00:20:35:07 00:00:02:21
1 -I know.
42 I'll just say something really brutal

00:20:35:09 - 00:20:38:17 00:00:03:08
2 and then be like...
42
00:20:38:19 - 00:20:40:11 00:00:01:16 I'm always looking for a quip.
3
42 When I come to a realization

00:20:40:13 - 00:20:42:10 00:00:01:21
4 in my therapy,
42 I'm always looking

00:20:42:12 - 00:20:44:02 00:00:01:14
5 for some quip or whatever,
42 because I'm trying to

00:20:44:04 - 00:20:46:09 00:00:02:05
6 maybe put the mask back on.
42
00:20:46:11 - 00:20:48:01 00:00:01:14 That's it. Yeah.
7
42
00:20:48:03 - 00:20:50:07 00:00:02:04 And then my therapist will not laugh.
8
42
00:20:51:10 - 00:20:52:09 00:00:00:23 Leave the mask off.
9
43 〝But that was really funny.

00:20:52:11 - 00:20:55:21 00:00:03:10
0 You should have laughed at that one.〞
21
43
00:20:55:23 - 00:20:57:02 00:00:01:03 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
1
43 so, the way the humor flows

00:20:57:04 - 00:21:00:08 00:00:03:04
2 for this record, I get it.
43 And I understand because

00:21:00:10 - 00:21:04:12 00:00:04:02
3 you're addressing really intense things.
43 Was there one moment

00:21:04:14 - 00:21:06:23 00:00:02:09
4 during the making of this record
43
00:21:07:01 - 00:21:09:20 00:00:02:19 that nearly did you in?
5
43 You know, the whole record

00:21:09:22 - 00:21:13:22 00:00:04:00
6 was really hard to make actually.
43 It wasn't the making of it.

00:21:14:22 - 00:21:18:11 00:00:03:13
7 It wasn't the writing.
43
00:21:18:13 - 00:21:22:05 00:00:03:16 The songs I felt like really...
8
43 -The songs came very naturally.

00:21:23:12 - 00:21:25:18 00:00:02:06
9 -They revealed themselves.
44
00:21:25:20 - 00:21:27:08 00:00:01:12 Yeah. And I felt like I...
0
44 I mean 〝Daffodil,〞
00:21:27:10 - 00:21:29:12 00:00:02:02
1 I thought I'd lost my mind.
44 Because I remember
00:21:29:14 - 00:21:31:15 00:00:02:01
2 coming home and being like,
44
00:21:31:17 - 00:21:33:06 00:00:01:13 〝Okay, I wrote a song today.
3
44 Might be the most Florence + the Machine

00:21:33:08 - 00:21:35:23 00:00:02:15
4 thing I've ever done.
44 We're like a year into the pandemic.

00:21:36:01 - 00:21:39:13 00:00:03:12
5 I think maybe I'm losing it.
44 The chorus is just

00:21:39:15 - 00:21:41:07 00:00:01:16
6 daffodil over and over again.〝
44 It's just like, 〝 Can you do that?

00:21:41:09 - 00:21:46:07 00:00:04:22
7 Like, that's a crazy thing to do.〞
44 -So there were moments where I was...

00:21:46:09 - 00:21:49:08 00:00:02:23
8 -Yeah, it's a beautiful word.
44 -But just that's the chorus.

00:21:49:10 - 00:21:51:19 00:00:02:09
9 -Yeah.
45
00:21:52:23 - 00:21:55:03 00:00:02:04 I think the making of it,
0
22
45 there were so many moments

00:21:55:05 - 00:21:57:20 00:00:02:15
1 where I'd nearly gave up on this record.
45 There were so many moments

00:21:57:22 - 00:22:00:09 00:00:02:11
2 where I just nearly went...
45 It just feels like

00:22:00:11 - 00:22:02:15 00:00:02:04
3 the way that the world is,
45
00:22:02:17 - 00:22:04:00 00:00:01:07 this is just too hard to finish.
4
45
00:22:04:02 - 00:22:05:08 00:00:01:06 Because you started with Jack.
5
45 I started with Jack and we were meant

00:22:05:10 - 00:22:08:12 00:00:03:02
6 to make the whole record
45
00:22:08:14 - 00:22:10:19 00:00:02:05 in Electric Lady in...
7
45
00:22:12:12 - 00:22:13:11 00:00:00:23 ....New York...
8
45
00:22:15:02 - 00:22:16:06 00:00:01:04 ...in...
9
46
00:22:16:08 - 00:22:18:04 00:00:01:20 Sorry, this is like trauma brain,
0
46
00:22:18:06 - 00:22:20:00 00:00:01:18 in like March 2020.
1
46 -Oh, yeah.
00:22:20:02 - 00:22:21:14 00:00:01:12
2 -Yeah.
46 No, sometimes I can't remember

00:22:21:16 - 00:22:24:15 00:00:02:23
3 which March that was.
46
00:22:24:17 - 00:22:25:13 00:00:00:20 Yeah, like...
4
46 Because '20 and '21,

00:22:25:15 - 00:22:28:05 00:00:02:14
5 it was a bit blurry for me.
46
00:22:28:07 - 00:22:33:18 00:00:05:11 So, March, 2020, I went to New York.
6
46
00:22:33:20 - 00:22:35:21 00:00:02:01 I had my suitcases packed for a month.
7
46 -We were going to make the whole...

00:22:35:23 - 00:22:38:06 00:00:02:07
8 -Your timing though.
46
00:22:38:08 - 00:22:40:02 00:00:01:18 We were going to make the whole...
9
47 We had a bunch of amazing songs done,

00:22:40:04 - 00:22:43:10 00:00:03:06
0 so the reason I...
23
47 Why Jack? Why'd you choose Jack?

00:22:43:12 - 00:22:45:11 00:00:01:23
1 What'd you see in him?
47 Because the first song

00:22:45:13 - 00:22:47:11 00:00:01:22
2 we wrote together was 〝King.〞
47 -And you're like, here we go.

00:22:47:13 - 00:22:49:03 00:00:01:14
3 -Yeah.
47 The first song we wrote together

00:22:49:05 - 00:22:51:03 00:00:01:22
4 was 〝King〞 and...
47
00:22:51:05 - 00:22:52:10 00:00:01:05 I found my queen.
5
47
00:22:53:04 - 00:22:54:19 00:00:01:15 I think that's...
6
47 So, Jack had wanted

00:22:54:21 - 00:22:56:20 00:00:01:23
7 to work together for a while
47
00:22:56:22 - 00:22:59:07 00:00:02:09 and we met and we just got on really well.
8
47
00:22:59:09 - 00:23:01:21 00:00:02:12 I found him really great to talk to.
9
48
00:23:02:07 - 00:23:03:11 00:00:01:04 But you don't...
0
48 I never start working it

00:23:04:03 - 00:23:07:17 00:00:03:14
1 with anyone at this stage in my career
48 unless we get in the studio

00:23:07:19 - 00:23:09:13 00:00:01:18
2 and do something,
48 and that really tells you

00:23:09:15 - 00:23:12:22 00:00:03:07
3 whether something's going to work.
48 So, you're never like,

00:23:13:00 - 00:23:15:00 00:00:02:00
4 〝Yeah, let's do this,〞
48
00:23:15:02 - 00:23:17:02 00:00:02:00 until you've had a play date.
5
48
00:23:18:10 - 00:23:22:20 00:00:04:10 And on this play date, we wrote 〝King.〞
6
48
00:23:22:22 - 00:23:25:04 00:00:02:06 And then 〝Choreomania〞 was...
7
48
00:23:25:06 - 00:23:27:09 00:00:02:03 So, I'd had 〝Choreomania〞
8
48 and it was in kind of

00:23:27:11 - 00:23:30:09 00:00:02:22
9 a very demo like state.
49
00:23:30:11 - 00:23:34:01 00:00:03:14 And what Jack did to it was just...
0
24
49
00:23:34:03 - 00:23:36:09 00:00:02:06 He just took it so far.
1
49 And so I was like,

00:23:37:06 - 00:23:40:08 00:00:03:02
2 〝This guy's really good.
49 -He's really, really good.〝

00:23:40:10 - 00:23:42:01 00:00:01:15
3 -Yeah. He is gifted.
49 And he is a gifted communicator.

00:23:42:03 - 00:23:44:12 00:00:02:09
4 That's what I hear all the time.
49
00:23:44:14 - 00:23:47:08 00:00:02:18 And so it was just those two,
5
49 the strength of those two songs was like,

00:23:47:10 - 00:23:50:11 00:00:03:01
6 〝Okay, there's really something here.〞
49 And then we agreed to start

00:23:50:13 - 00:23:53:06 00:00:02:17
7 the record together.
49
00:23:53:08 - 00:23:55:09 00:00:02:01 And we got to New York.
8
49 In that one week we wrote 〝Free,〞

00:23:55:11 - 00:23:59:04 00:00:03:17
9 and we wrote 〝Back In Town.〞
50
00:23:59:06 - 00:24:00:16 00:00:01:10 Ironically 〝Back In Town〞
0
50 was the last song I wrote

00:24:00:18 - 00:24:03:08 00:00:02:14
1 before my mom called.
50 My mom never calls me.

00:24:03:10 - 00:24:06:05 00:00:02:19
2 She's a very busy lady.
50 We basically have to make

00:24:06:21 - 00:24:09:20 00:00:02:23
3 appointments with her secretary.
50
00:24:11:04 - 00:24:12:14 00:00:01:10 Or is it just self-preservation?
4
50
00:24:12:16 - 00:24:13:22 00:00:01:06 And she just as mother, just like,
5
50 〝Listen, my daughter,
00:24:14:00 - 00:24:16:09 00:00:02:09
6 I love her unconditionally.〞
50 -Oh, my God.
00:24:16:11 - 00:24:17:13 00:00:01:02
7 -But she is a lot.
50
00:24:17:15 - 00:24:19:00 00:00:01:09 And you need to make sure...
8
50
00:24:19:02 - 00:24:20:11 00:00:01:09 You really might have something there
9
51 because she has dealt

00:24:20:13 - 00:24:23:18 00:00:03:05
0 with this for 35 years.
25
51 〝Sweetheart, I love you,

00:24:23:20 - 00:24:26:19 00:00:02:23
1 but you got to go through my assistant.〞
51
00:24:26:21 - 00:24:28:23 00:00:02:02 It's honestly never got that much better.
2
51
00:24:29:01 - 00:24:32:09 00:00:03:08 Like, it's always floods of tears.
3
51 -I'm kidding.
00:24:32:11 - 00:24:33:22 00:00:01:11
4 -Everything's a disaster.
51 -She's busy. She's busy.

00:24:34:00 - 00:24:36:03 00:00:02:03
5 -And she's like, 〝I'm busy.〞
51
00:24:36:05 - 00:24:38:08 00:00:02:03 〝I'm busy.〞 So she's a busy lady.
6
51 -She calls you up.

00:24:38:10 - 00:24:39:23 00:00:01:13
7 -She never calls.
51
00:24:40:01 - 00:24:41:22 00:00:01:21 I saw my mom, and I was like...
8
51 She said, 〝You should come home.〞

00:24:42:11 - 00:24:45:04 00:00:02:17
9 And she never...
52 If mom calls, somebody's died

00:24:46:03 - 00:24:49:00 00:00:02:21
0 or something has happened.
52 As like, I saw her,

00:24:49:02 - 00:24:51:09 00:00:02:07
1 I was like, 〝It's time to go.〞
52 And it was very much

00:24:52:03 - 00:24:54:17 00:00:02:14
2 that stage where you're like,
52
00:24:54:19 - 00:24:56:17 00:00:01:22 〝This will just be a month.〞
3
52 It was interesting to me though as well,

00:24:56:19 - 00:25:00:20 00:00:04:01
4 because for all of my anxiety
52 and for all of my worrying about things

00:25:01:10 - 00:25:04:23 00:00:03:13
5 that would happen in the future,
52
00:25:05:01 - 00:25:07:07 00:00:02:06 I was wildly optimistic about this.
6
52
00:25:07:09 - 00:25:08:22 00:00:01:13 Interesting.
7
52 And it just proved to me

00:25:09:00 - 00:25:12:21 00:00:03:21
8 that my anxiety doesn't know anything.
52
00:25:12:23 - 00:25:15:18 00:00:02:19 My anxiety is not psychic.
9
53 Everything that I think

00:25:15:20 - 00:25:19:04 00:00:03:08
0 bad will happen tends to not happen.
26
53 And then the things

00:25:19:06 - 00:25:21:17 00:00:02:11
1 that I cannot conceptualize
53
00:25:22:05 - 00:25:23:10 00:00:01:05 like, happen.
2
53 Which is weird,
00:25:24:07 - 00:25:27:11 00:00:03:04
3 so I'm weirdly optimistic.
53 So me and Jack were both

00:25:27:13 - 00:25:30:23 00:00:03:10
4 like, 〝See you in a month.〞
53
00:25:31:01 - 00:25:33:10 00:00:02:09 And I get home,
5
53 and then I didn't see Jack

00:25:33:12 - 00:25:36:20 00:00:03:08
6 for a year and a half.
53 I mean, I don't think

00:25:36:22 - 00:25:38:08 00:00:01:10
7 he left his apartment for a year.
53 But people did get on with it virtually,

00:25:38:10 - 00:25:42:03 00:00:03:17
8 that is just not how...
53
00:25:42:21 - 00:25:44:01 00:00:01:04 It's not how...
9
54
00:25:44:03 - 00:25:46:10 00:00:02:07 It was such a strange situation to be in
0
54
00:25:46:12 - 00:25:48:22 00:00:02:10 because this record, like its name,
1
54
00:25:49:00 - 00:25:51:02 00:00:02:02 came up, like, on me like a fever.
2
54
00:25:51:04 - 00:25:53:11 00:00:02:07 Like, Dance Fever was real.
3
54 I had said in High As Hope,

00:25:53:13 - 00:25:57:09 00:00:03:20
4 like, 〝I'm going to have a huge...〞
54
00:25:57:22 - 00:25:59:17 00:00:01:19 The record itself is also like...
5
54 ...all these moments to stop and like

00:26:00:23 - 00:26:05:10 00:00:04:11
6 pursue more kind of domestic desires.
54 Every time they came,

00:26:05:12 - 00:26:07:17 00:00:02:05
7 I ran away from them.
54 And I ran back to the studio.

00:26:07:19 - 00:26:10:10 00:00:02:15
8 And I ran back to a record.
54
00:26:10:12 - 00:26:12:17 00:00:02:05 And I'd really said after High As Hope,
9
55 like, I'm going to take a huge break.

00:26:12:19 - 00:26:15:01 00:00:02:06
0 Touring is so hard.
27
55
00:26:15:03 - 00:26:17:13 00:00:02:10 Putting out records is really stressful.
1
55
00:26:17:15 - 00:26:18:22 00:00:01:07 And then as soon as...
2
55 In 2019, as soon as we played

00:26:19:00 - 00:26:21:06 00:00:02:06
3 that last show,
55
00:26:21:08 - 00:26:23:14 00:00:02:06 the songs just flooded me.
4
55 Like, Dance Fever arrived

00:26:23:16 - 00:26:25:22 00:00:02:06
5 almost just fully formed.
55 I said, 〝I have to make this record.

00:26:26:00 - 00:26:30:04 00:00:04:04
6 I have the title. I have the concept.〞
55
00:26:31:05 - 00:26:32:11 00:00:01:06 And it was like...
7
55 And so I was really in the flow

00:26:32:22 - 00:26:36:21 00:00:03:23
8 of this incredible burst of creativity
55
00:26:36:23 - 00:26:38:09 00:00:01:10 that just got severed.
9
56 And I came home

00:26:38:11 - 00:26:40:10 00:00:01:23
0 and I didn't write anything,
56
00:26:40:12 - 00:26:42:05 00:00:01:17 not a single song for six months.
1
56 -Did you use it?

00:26:42:19 - 00:26:44:21 00:00:02:02
2 -The whole first half of the record
56 is that first flood of creativity.

00:26:44:23 - 00:26:48:10 00:00:03:11
3 And when it gets to 〝Back In Town...〞
56 Then the next song we wrote remotely

00:26:49:07 - 00:26:51:17 00:00:02:10
4 was 〝Girls Against God.〞
56 And you can hear it because

00:26:51:19 - 00:26:54:06 00:00:02:11
5 the anger and frustration kick in.
56
00:26:54:08 - 00:26:56:03 00:00:01:19 〝I didn't ask for this s*** kicks in.〞
6
56 〝I know I may not look like much,

00:26:56:05 - 00:27:00:17 00:00:04:12
7 just another screaming spike of dust.〞
56
00:27:00:19 - 00:27:04:13 00:00:03:18 It's so brutal, so brutal.
8
56
00:27:05:10 - 00:27:07:06 00:00:01:20 And without getting too personal,
9
57 because I think it does run

00:27:07:08 - 00:27:10:00 00:00:02:16
0 as a theme through the album,
28
57 did that space allow you

00:27:10:02 - 00:27:13:17 00:00:03:15
1 the time to better understand
57
00:27:13:19 - 00:27:16:05 00:00:02:10 your relationship with domesticity
2
57 and with the idea of,

00:27:16:07 - 00:27:19:05 00:00:02:22
3 you know, relationships
57
00:27:19:07 - 00:27:20:18 00:00:01:11 and what value they can bring to you?
4
57 Or are you still running into the studio,

00:27:20:20 - 00:27:23:15 00:00:02:19
5 do you think, in your heart?
57
00:27:23:17 - 00:27:27:12 00:00:03:19 I think it was such an interesting cycle
6
57
00:27:28:02 - 00:27:31:00 00:00:02:22 because the pandemic went on for so long
7
57
00:27:31:02 - 00:27:33:05 00:00:02:03 and the lockdowns went on for so long.
8
57
00:27:34:12 - 00:27:35:23 00:00:01:11 I, at first...
9
58 ...the grief was at maybe

00:27:37:06 - 00:27:41:22 00:00:04:16
0 touring never coming back, or shows.
58 Because I know it's so easy now.

00:27:42:00 - 00:27:45:05 00:00:03:05
1 Things are coming back and...
58 -It was real.

00:27:45:07 - 00:27:47:02 00:00:01:19
2 -And there were months there
58
00:27:47:04 - 00:27:48:10 00:00:01:06 where nobody knew.
3
58 Yeah, I did hundreds of conversations,

00:27:48:12 - 00:27:51:14 00:00:03:02
4 because we didn't stop.
58 I mean, Scott will tell you,

00:27:51:16 - 00:27:55:00 00:00:03:08
5 sometimes because people were at home,
58 〝Yeah, I'd love to connect with my fans

00:27:55:02 - 00:27:57:23 00:00:02:21
6 and sure I like talking to you.〞
58 So I had conversations.
00:27:58:01 - 00:27:59:23 00:00:01:22
7 We'd do 20 a week.
58 And it was so interesting watching

00:28:00:01 - 00:28:03:03 00:00:03:02
8 artists try and figure it out.
58 And really at the core of it was this

00:28:03:05 - 00:28:07:13 00:00:04:08
9 kind of, 〝Is that it? Is the ride over?〞
59
00:28:07:15 - 00:28:09:15 00:00:02:00 That was... It felt...
0
29
59 At that line, 〝As empires crumble

00:28:10:03 - 00:28:13:14 00:00:03:11
1 and cathedrals flatten in my heart〞
59
00:28:13:16 - 00:28:15:18 00:00:02:02 in 〝Cassandra,〞 I was like, I had...
2
59
00:28:16:10 - 00:28:18:22 00:00:02:12 Like, I talk about in 〝King,〞
3
59 my whole life has been striving

00:28:19:00 - 00:28:21:13 00:00:02:13
4 to be a better live performer,
59 to bring people closer,

00:28:21:15 - 00:28:24:14 00:00:02:23
5 to get people to connect more.
59 And I felt like this cathedral

00:28:24:16 - 00:28:28:06 00:00:03:14
6 of touch that I had built
59
00:28:28:08 - 00:28:30:17 00:00:02:09 had just flattened overnight. And...
7
59
00:28:31:17 - 00:28:33:16 00:00:01:23 A huge relinquish of control going on.
8
59
00:28:33:18 - 00:28:37:00 00:00:03:06 Yeah. And the grief at the loss of...
9
60
00:28:39:03 - 00:28:41:05 00:00:02:02 It's also, it was like, 〝It's my job.〞
0
60 But I just didn't know

00:28:41:07 - 00:28:43:04 00:00:01:21
1 if it would come back.
60
00:28:43:06 - 00:28:45:08 00:00:02:02 And I don't know how to do anything else.
2
60
00:28:45:10 - 00:28:47:03 00:00:01:17 Did it even cross your mind
3
60 -what life would be like?

00:28:47:05 - 00:28:49:14 00:00:02:09
4 -I don't how to anything else.
60
00:28:49:16 - 00:28:51:09 00:00:01:17 I...
5
60
00:28:51:11 - 00:28:54:03 00:00:02:16 Because it took...
6
60 Because there were so many

00:28:54:05 - 00:28:56:05 00:00:02:00
7 false starts as well,
60
00:28:56:07 - 00:28:58:01 00:00:01:18 〝We can go to finish the record,
8
60
00:28:58:03 - 00:28:59:22 00:00:01:19 oh, we can't, there's another variant.
9
61 We're going to get to New York to do it.

00:29:00:00 - 00:29:03:21 00:00:03:21
0 Oh, there's another... We can't.〝
30
61 Everyone in England has COVID.

00:29:03:23 - 00:29:06:01 00:00:02:02
1 You can't leave.
61
00:29:06:03 - 00:29:07:14 00:00:01:11 America doesn't want you.
2
61 -Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:08:08 - 00:29:10:14 00:00:02:06
3 -Like...
61 -〝What? What?〞
00:29:10:16 - 00:29:12:14 00:00:01:22
4 -You are banned.
61
00:29:12:16 - 00:29:14:14 00:00:01:22 〝I've never been not wanted by America.〞
5
61
00:29:14:16 - 00:29:16:16 00:00:02:00 You are banned from everywhere.
6
61 -〝Not me.〞
00:29:16:18 - 00:29:19:03 00:00:02:09
7 -No country wants you.
61
00:29:19:05 - 00:29:20:19 00:00:01:14 〝They love me in Seattle.〞
8
61 -[Yeah.
00:29:20:21 - 00:29:22:01 00:00:01:04
9 -Yeah.
62 And so there were so many

00:29:22:03 - 00:29:24:11 00:00:02:08
0 false starts of, like,
62 whether this record would even finish,

00:29:24:13 - 00:29:27:01 00:00:02:12
1 and where the gigs...
62 And you know, you would see a tour go up,

00:29:27:03 - 00:29:29:13 00:00:02:10
2 you would see it get canceled,
62 you would see a show go up,

00:29:29:15 - 00:29:31:10 00:00:01:19
3 you would see it get canceled.
62
00:29:31:12 - 00:29:33:21 00:00:02:09 And so it was almost, like,
4
62
00:29:34:11 - 00:29:37:11 00:00:03:00 after two years of desperately wondering,
5
62
00:29:38:11 - 00:29:41:18 00:00:03:07 I, kind of, almost, like, settled in.
6
62 I was like, 〝You know what?

00:29:41:20 - 00:29:44:03 00:00:02:07
7 Maybe this isn't...〞
62 It's like, I could never

00:29:44:12 - 00:29:46:15 00:00:02:03
8 live without this thing.
62 And I still feel that

00:29:46:17 - 00:29:48:21 00:00:02:04
9 a world without live music,
63 I was really questioning whether I even

00:29:48:23 - 00:29:51:10 00:00:02:11
0 wanted to be in that world.
31
63
00:29:51:12 - 00:29:54:04 00:00:02:16 Like, that's how I've seen...
1
63
00:29:55:18 - 00:29:58:01 00:00:02:07 ...kind of, miracles take places on stage.
2
63 It's how I've seen people, like,

00:29:58:03 - 00:30:01:10 00:00:03:07
3 transcend their physical bodies
63
00:30:01:12 - 00:30:03:20 00:00:02:08 and, like, bring heaven into the room.
4
63 It's also a theme of this album,

00:30:03:22 - 00:30:08:04 00:00:04:06
5 the idea of being able to take
63 what is essentially performance,

00:30:09:00 - 00:30:12:13 00:00:03:13
6 even if it's just for yourself and...
63
00:30:13:11 - 00:30:16:09 00:00:02:22 ...it becoming this, this therapy,
7
63
00:30:16:11 - 00:30:19:11 00:00:03:00 this kind of idea of salvation.
8
63
00:30:19:13 - 00:30:22:17 00:00:03:04 That what 〝Morning Elvis〞 is about
9
64
00:30:23:07 - 00:30:26:12 00:00:03:05 I've seen performers in so much pain,
0
64
00:30:27:02 - 00:30:29:18 00:00:02:16 just alchemize that pain and turn it into
1
64 the purest expression

00:30:29:20 - 00:30:34:04 00:00:04:08
2 of love and generosity, and...
64
00:30:34:06 - 00:30:36:07 00:00:02:01 Really that song in particular,
3
64 if we just stay there

00:30:36:09 - 00:30:38:15 00:00:02:06
4 for a second, because...
64
00:30:39:16 - 00:30:41:14 00:00:01:22 ...that song is desperately sad.
5
64
00:30:41:16 - 00:30:42:22 00:00:01:06 Yeah.
6
64 I mean, it's really coming

00:30:44:18 - 00:30:47:18 00:00:03:00
7 face to face with, like,
64
00:30:47:20 - 00:30:49:11 00:00:01:15 It's almost mortality in my head.
8
64 -A little bit. You know?

00:30:49:13 - 00:30:51:03 00:00:01:14
9 -Yeah.
65 Maybe not as cut and dry as life or death,

00:30:51:05 - 00:30:55:03 00:00:03:22
0 but certainly the mortality of a spirit.
32
65
00:30:55:05 - 00:30:56:10 00:00:01:05 What is the story?
1
65
00:30:56:12 - 00:30:57:19 00:00:01:07 The story is...
2
65 So I think it was when still

00:30:57:21 - 00:31:01:03 00:00:03:06
3 no shows were happening
65
00:31:01:05 - 00:31:03:04 00:00:01:23 and I was watching...
4
65
00:31:03:06 - 00:31:05:13 00:00:02:07 I'm obsessed with Nick Cave,
5
65 and, as a performer, but the performer

00:31:05:15 - 00:31:08:12 00:00:02:21
6 he's obsessed with is Elvis.
65
00:31:08:14 - 00:31:10:00 00:00:01:10 So that's how it feeds back to me.
7
65
00:31:10:02 - 00:31:11:19 00:00:01:17 It's all kind of through this.
8
65
00:31:13:10 - 00:31:15:17 00:00:02:07 And then I think I was at home and stuck
9
66
00:31:15:19 - 00:31:17:22 00:00:02:03 and there was an Elvis documentary,
0
66 and so I was just thinking

00:31:18:00 - 00:31:20:18 00:00:02:18
1 about performers and the 〝King,〞
66 the idea of the 〝King〞

00:31:20:20 - 00:31:23:15 00:00:02:19
2 was sort of floating around, so...
66 And it made me remember us

00:31:23:17 - 00:31:28:09 00:00:04:16
3 when we were on tour
66 and I think we were in New Orleans

00:31:28:11 - 00:31:32:12 00:00:04:01
4 and it was very early days.
66 I think it would've been

00:31:32:14 - 00:31:35:04 00:00:02:14
5 maybe second record.
66 So not that early, but the wheels

00:31:35:10 - 00:31:38:10 00:00:03:00
6 were really coming off for me
66 in terms of, like, drinking and partying

00:31:38:12 - 00:31:42:00 00:00:03:12
7 on that second record...
66
00:31:42:02 - 00:31:44:15 00:00:02:13 That was when things were really ramping.
8
66 Ceremonials by name,
00:31:44:17 - 00:31:47:08 00:00:02:15
9 ceremonials by nature.
67 Yeah. It's when things were

00:31:47:10 - 00:31:49:18 00:00:02:08
0 really ramping up,
33
67
00:31:49:20 - 00:31:51:21 00:00:02:01 and I think we had gone to play...
1
67
00:31:53:08 - 00:31:56:04 00:00:02:20 ...Voodoo Festival in New Orleans.
2
67 And we were all supposed

00:31:57:17 - 00:31:59:23 00:00:02:06
3 to get the tour bus to Memphis
67
00:32:00:01 - 00:32:01:18 00:00:01:17 that night after the festival.
4
67 And we had a private tour

00:32:01:20 - 00:32:04:10 00:00:02:14
5 booked of Graceland.
67 And I just got very

00:32:04:12 - 00:32:08:18 00:00:04:06
6 in the spirit of New Orleans
67
00:32:08:20 - 00:32:10:09 00:00:01:13 and was at a party and just went,
7
67
00:32:10:11 - 00:32:13:08 00:00:02:21 〝You all leave without me, I'm staying.
8
67 I'm staying at this party.〝

00:32:13:10 - 00:32:15:17 00:00:02:07
9 And I think my...
68 I ended up with my dress

00:32:16:04 - 00:32:19:08 00:00:03:04
0 was completely shredded.
68
00:32:19:10 - 00:32:20:22 00:00:01:12 I was just sort of...
1
68
00:32:21:00 - 00:32:23:16 00:00:02:16 And then I was like found in a...
2
68
00:32:23:18 - 00:32:25:13 00:00:01:19 It was like the crew...
3
68 I think my tour manager had to come

00:32:25:15 - 00:32:28:03 00:00:02:12
4 and get me from a hotel room,
68 but all my clothes

00:32:28:05 - 00:32:30:06 00:00:02:01
5 were completely shredded,
68 because I'm always wearing

00:32:30:08 - 00:32:32:07 00:00:01:23
6 these vintage things
68 -that basically just stick to sinfully.

00:32:32:09 - 00:32:34:06 00:00:01:21
7 -Fall apart.
68
00:32:34:08 - 00:32:35:15 00:00:01:07 Yeah.
8
68 And if you're out on a rager,

00:32:35:17 - 00:32:38:02 00:00:02:09
9 like they really...
69
00:32:38:04 - 00:32:39:15 00:00:01:11 You will come back with nothing.
0
34
69
00:32:39:17 - 00:32:41:18 00:00:02:01 Yeah. Yeah.
1
69 But it was also like, I was like,

00:32:41:20 - 00:32:45:15 00:00:03:19
2 〝What was it about my young self
69
00:32:45:17 - 00:32:49:03 00:00:03:10 at the peak of things that were going...〝
3
69 You would've thought things

00:32:49:05 - 00:32:51:00 00:00:01:19
4 were going so well for me,
69 what was it about me

00:32:51:02 - 00:32:53:08 00:00:02:06
5 that had such a death wish?
69
00:32:53:10 - 00:32:54:06 00:00:00:20 You know, like what?
6
69
00:32:54:08 - 00:32:56:05 00:00:01:21 I had such little care for myself
7
69 at that moment when Ceremonials

00:32:56:18 - 00:33:00:14 00:00:03:20
8 was like starting to blow up everywhere.
69
00:33:01:07 - 00:33:02:08 00:00:01:01 I almost like...
9
70 Sometimes when I look at younger artists

00:33:02:10 - 00:33:05:07 00:00:02:21
0 having a huge moment,
70 I always wonder
00:33:05:09 - 00:33:07:20 00:00:02:11
1 what it's like for them on the inside.
70 In some ways I'm like,

00:33:07:22 - 00:33:09:20 00:00:01:22
2 〝That's so great for them,〞
70 but I know what it's like

00:33:09:22 - 00:33:12:04 00:00:02:06
3 to be on the inside of that.
70 And I think I was sort of trying

00:33:12:06 - 00:33:16:06 00:00:04:00
4 to unpack that moment when...
70
00:33:17:20 - 00:33:20:10 00:00:02:14 ...everything essentially was going right.
5
70 And yet I was kind of wandering

00:33:20:12 - 00:33:22:19 00:00:02:07
6 the streets of New Orleans
70
00:33:22:21 - 00:33:24:19 00:00:01:22 in like a shredded chiffon dress,
7
70 and then my tour manager

00:33:24:21 - 00:33:27:05 00:00:02:08
8 had to come and get me
70 and put me in some clothes that she'd

00:33:27:07 - 00:33:30:11 00:00:03:04
9 got off of roadie and get me on the plane.
71 -Get you out of New Orleans.

00:33:30:13 - 00:33:32:10 00:00:01:21
0 -Just get me out of New Orleans,
35
71
00:33:32:12 - 00:33:33:15 00:00:01:03 into Memphis.
1
71
00:33:33:17 - 00:33:35:07 00:00:01:14 And instead of going to Graceland,
2
71
00:33:35:09 - 00:33:38:23 00:00:03:14 I spent the day before the show...
3
71 -In pure self-hatred.

00:33:39:01 - 00:33:42:09 00:00:03:08
4 -Laying on the bathroom tiles.
71
00:33:42:11 - 00:33:44:12 00:00:02:01 Because that's where it's cool.
5
71 And just thinking,

00:33:44:14 - 00:33:46:14 00:00:02:00
6 〝There's no way
71 I'm going to be able to do this show.

00:33:46:16 - 00:33:49:00 00:00:02:08
7 There's no way.〝
71 And every time,

00:33:49:02 - 00:33:52:10 00:00:03:08
8 I know I had a show the next day,
71
00:33:52:12 - 00:33:54:07 00:00:01:19 I know I had a huge responsibility
9
72 and that's when I would

00:33:54:09 - 00:33:56:23 00:00:02:14
0 just blow everything up.
72 But it's also just a testament

00:33:58:11 - 00:34:02:10 00:00:03:23
1 to the power of performance,
72 because this was

00:34:02:12 - 00:34:05:00 00:00:02:12
2 the f****** problem with me
72 and is why it took maybe,

00:34:05:02 - 00:34:08:11 00:00:03:09
3 it took a little while
72 for me to sort myself out is

00:34:08:13 - 00:34:10:21 00:00:02:08
4 because I could always do the show.
72 -Yeah, mate.
00:34:10:23 - 00:34:12:09 00:00:01:10
5 -There was something about the album.
72 -You knew where the button was.

00:34:12:11 - 00:34:15:02 00:00:02:15
6 -Yeah. There was something about...
72 That was also

00:34:15:04 - 00:34:17:11 00:00:02:07
7 where the place I went to be saved.
72 You know, like, didn't matter

00:34:17:13 - 00:34:20:06 00:00:02:17
8 what I had done the night before
72 or the week before

00:34:20:08 - 00:34:24:07 00:00:03:23
9 or what chaos I had created.
73 I knew if I got to the stage,

00:34:24:09 - 00:34:27:09 00:00:03:00
0 something there would save me
36
73
00:34:27:11 - 00:34:28:21 00:00:01:10 and that I would be absolved.
1
73 And that song is

00:34:28:23 - 00:34:31:06 00:00:02:07
2 kind of about that feeling,
73 but also a testament

00:34:31:08 - 00:34:34:08 00:00:03:00
3 to all the performers I've seen
73
00:34:35:05 - 00:34:38:01 00:00:02:20 turn pain into something so beautiful.
4
73
00:34:38:03 - 00:34:40:05 00:00:02:02 Crazy. That is like, to me,
5
73
00:34:40:19 - 00:34:42:12 00:00:01:17 what you are telling me, you summed it up.
6
73 It's like, that is a f******

00:34:42:14 - 00:34:48:05 00:00:05:15
7 really destructive trade.
73
00:34:48:07 - 00:34:50:01 00:00:01:18 I was thinking about like
8
73
00:34:50:16 - 00:34:56:05 00:00:05:13 how lucky I am that somehow
9
74 something cared about me

00:34:56:07 - 00:34:58:10 00:00:02:03
0 more than I cared about myself.
74 -And what was it?

00:34:58:12 - 00:35:02:22 00:00:04:10
1 -I think it was somehow...
74 I don't know.
00:35:06:14 - 00:35:09:00 00:00:02:10
2 But I think it was that thing
74 that you're talking about

00:35:09:02 - 00:35:11:19 00:00:02:17
3 of just like surrender, of just...
74 I had thought that the chaos

00:35:13:04 - 00:35:16:05 00:00:03:01
4 in my life and the drinking
74
00:35:16:07 - 00:35:18:16 00:00:02:09 and everything was fuel for my creativity.
5
74 And that was how

00:35:18:18 - 00:35:20:22 00:00:02:04
6 you were a rock and roll star.
74 That was how you did it.

00:35:21:00 - 00:35:23:11 00:00:02:11
7 That was the brief.
74
00:35:23:13 - 00:35:27:10 00:00:03:21 You know, because you as a young woman
8
74
00:35:27:12 - 00:35:29:06 00:00:01:18 coming out in the indie scene,
9
75 you didn't want

00:35:29:22 - 00:35:31:12 00:00:01:14
0 people to think you were like
37
75 -girly or like sensitive.

00:35:31:14 - 00:35:34:03 00:00:02:13
1 -You talk about it.
75 And it was like, 〝If I can drink

00:35:34:05 - 00:35:37:07 00:00:03:02
2 as hard as these people can
75 and if I can drink them under the table,

00:35:37:09 - 00:35:42:00 00:00:04:15
3 that's how I make my place in this world.〝
75 -And that was all I knew.

00:35:42:02 - 00:35:44:07 00:00:02:05
4 -It was a scene.
75 -It was a scene.

00:35:44:09 - 00:35:47:15 00:00:03:06
5 -I mean, I was there, remember?
75
00:35:49:00 - 00:35:50:17 00:00:01:17 You were there.
6
75 And trust me, I wasn't there

00:35:50:19 - 00:35:53:09 00:00:02:14
7 like you guys were there,
75 but I would sort of check in

00:35:53:11 - 00:35:56:06 00:00:02:19
8 and check out once in a while.
75
00:35:56:08 - 00:35:57:12 00:00:01:04 And it was a scene.
9
76 And it was a great scene

00:35:58:04 - 00:36:01:00 00:00:02:20
0 full of wonderful characters
76 and a lot of love in the room

00:36:01:02 - 00:36:04:13 00:00:03:11
1 and a lot of support,
76 a lot of young artists

00:36:04:15 - 00:36:07:04 00:00:02:13
2 supporting one another.
76 -But everyone was pretty f***** up.

00:36:07:18 - 00:36:11:13 00:00:03:19
3 -Got it. Yeah.
76
00:36:11:15 - 00:36:14:15 00:00:03:00 Yeah, yeah. No, it was real. It was...
4
76 And that's like in a South London scene

00:36:14:17 - 00:36:18:06 00:00:03:13
5 that I came from, that was how you did it.
76 You know, it was like,

00:36:18:08 - 00:36:22:14 00:00:04:06
6 the gig was either side of the drinking.
76 And then, like,

00:36:22:16 - 00:36:24:20 00:00:02:04
7 it was like the drinking before,
76
00:36:24:22 - 00:36:26:17 00:00:01:19 the drinking during, the drinking after.
8
76 And if you could hit the sweet spot

00:36:26:19 - 00:36:29:16 00:00:02:21
9 where that made the gig really good.
77 -That was great. Sometimes you missed it.

00:36:29:18 - 00:36:32:17 00:00:02:23
0 -Yeah.
38
77 Sometimes you missed it

00:36:32:19 - 00:36:35:09 00:00:02:14
1 and you're just throwing a bucket of paint
77 on someone and screaming.

00:36:35:11 - 00:36:38:02 00:00:02:15
2 And that's the show.
77
00:36:40:05 - 00:36:41:04 00:00:00:23 I missed that one.
3
77
00:36:42:04 - 00:36:43:10 00:00:01:06 I missed that one.
4
77 I mean, there's a great line in this,

00:36:43:12 - 00:36:46:23 00:00:03:11
5 which is the way the humor kicks in
77
00:36:47:01 - 00:36:48:19 00:00:01:18 where you talk about 2006
6
77 -in the music scene.

00:36:48:21 - 00:36:50:09 00:00:01:12
7 -Oh, yeah. Yeah.
77
00:36:50:11 - 00:36:51:19 00:00:01:08 And you talk about Tom Vic,
8
77 -who I love.
00:36:51:21 - 00:36:52:21 00:00:01:00
9 -Tom Vic, yeah.
78 You know, and just...

00:36:52:23 - 00:36:56:06 00:00:03:07
0 It's really lovely,
78 very inside baseball

00:36:56:08 - 00:37:00:07 00:00:03:23
1 kind of reflection
78
00:37:00:09 - 00:37:03:16 00:00:03:07 on that time when everyone's coming up.
2
78 But what is that image to you

00:37:03:18 - 00:37:07:12 00:00:03:18
3 and why is it in the song?
78
00:37:08:00 - 00:37:10:03 00:00:02:03 It's so funny that song is...
4
78 You know, when in the lockdown,

00:37:10:05 - 00:37:14:06 00:00:04:01
5 it just created this nostalgia loop.
78 -Yeah. Hell yeah.

00:37:14:08 - 00:37:16:13 00:00:02:05
6 -And...
78 I looked up people online

00:37:16:15 - 00:37:19:03 00:00:02:12
7 I haven't thought about for 30 years.
78 -Yeah. It was this...

00:37:19:05 - 00:37:21:04 00:00:01:23
8 -It's almost creepy.
78 〝I went to school with you.

00:37:21:06 - 00:37:23:14 00:00:02:08
9 What are you doing now? Oh, cool.
79
00:37:23:16 - 00:37:26:05 00:00:02:13 You're an MP for the green,
0
39
79 for the green party in New Zealand.

00:37:26:07 - 00:37:30:02 00:00:03:19
1 Well, that's awesome.
79 I always liked you. I knew

00:37:30:04 - 00:37:32:12 00:00:02:08
2 you'd do something really valuable.〝
79 -I'm telling you the truth.

00:37:32:14 - 00:37:34:07 00:00:01:17
3 -I just...
79 I nearly went down

00:37:34:09 - 00:37:37:02 00:00:02:17
4 to a Maserati dealership to say hello
79 to a cricket bowler who used

00:37:37:04 - 00:37:39:04 00:00:02:00
5 to scare the s*** out of me.
79 -No, that was it!

00:37:39:06 - 00:37:42:05 00:00:02:23
6 -That's how f***** up it got for me.
79
00:37:43:18 - 00:37:45:09 00:00:01:15 Or just reaching out to like anyone.
7
79 On, like, random people

00:37:45:11 - 00:37:47:21 00:00:02:10
8 on Instagram who did like a post
79 that you liked, being like,

00:37:47:23 - 00:37:50:14 00:00:02:15
9 〝Hey, I love that〞.
80 -And, I think...
00:37:50:16 - 00:37:52:11 00:00:01:19
0 -Connection.
80 -...the desire connection was so strong.

00:37:52:13 - 00:37:54:20 00:00:02:07
1 -Yeah.
80 But I think what the nostalgia loop was,

00:37:54:22 - 00:37:58:19 00:00:03:21
2 it was weird, I was nostalgic for things
80
00:37:58:21 - 00:38:00:08 00:00:01:11 that weren't available to me,
3
80 even if there hadn't been

00:38:00:10 - 00:38:02:11 00:00:02:01
4 a pandemic anyway,
80 which is essentially being 20,

00:38:02:13 - 00:38:07:01 00:00:04:12
5 having no responsibilities, having...
80 none of Florence + the Machine

00:38:07:03 - 00:38:09:14 00:00:02:11
6 had started yet, like...
80 A bit young for a midlife crisis,

00:38:09:16 - 00:38:11:20 00:00:02:04
7 aren't you?
80 But I think it put everyone

00:38:12:08 - 00:38:16:08 00:00:04:00
8 into an early midlife crisis.
80
00:38:16:10 - 00:38:19:14 00:00:03:04 You know, it was like, it was really...
9
81 All you were left with

00:38:19:16 - 00:38:22:09 00:00:02:17
0 was your life up to that point.
40
81 Because you also weren't

00:38:22:11 - 00:38:24:07 00:00:01:20
1 creating new experiences
81 and you didn't know when those

00:38:24:09 - 00:38:26:06 00:00:01:21
2 new experiences would come again.
81
00:38:26:08 - 00:38:28:03 00:00:01:19 100% when you get locked in your own head,
3
81 it's not too long before

00:38:28:05 - 00:38:30:02 00:00:01:21
4 you start looking back.
81 And so I think
00:38:30:04 - 00:38:34:12 00:00:04:08
5 the thing that I was most hungry for
81
00:38:34:14 - 00:38:37:07 00:00:02:17 was that time almost before...
6
81 Because although the fact

00:38:37:09 - 00:38:42:12 00:00:05:03
7 that this music took off
81 and the fact

00:38:42:14 - 00:38:44:01 00:00:01:11
8 that Florence + the Machine happened
81
00:38:44:03 - 00:38:45:18 00:00:01:15 is incredible to me.
9
82
00:38:45:20 - 00:38:48:21 00:00:03:01 Like, it's so kind of...
0
82
00:38:48:23 - 00:38:50:20 00:00:01:21 it's so of its own world,
1
82 that the fact that it became big

00:38:50:22 - 00:38:53:14 00:00:02:16
2 is kind of crazy,
82
00:38:53:16 - 00:38:55:11 00:00:01:19 you know, like, it took this,
3
82 this sort of like wild thing

00:38:56:01 - 00:39:02:04 00:00:06:03
4 for it to sort of go global.
82 And I never kind of get over

00:39:02:06 - 00:39:05:09 00:00:03:03
5 that that happened.
82 Can I ask you a weird question?

00:39:05:11 - 00:39:08:12 00:00:03:01
6 Do you ever feel any kind of...
82 ...guilt that it happened for you

00:39:10:03 - 00:39:14:14 00:00:04:11
7 and not for some of the people that
82 you had those really

00:39:14:16 - 00:39:16:23 00:00:02:07
8 formative fun times with
82 when you were running around London

00:39:17:01 - 00:39:19:01 00:00:02:00
9 having a great time?
83 Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

00:39:19:03 - 00:39:21:17 00:00:02:14
0 Because it's like...
41
83 -Because you all had the same dream.

00:39:22:19 - 00:39:25:01 00:00:02:06
1 -Yeah, we did.
83
00:39:25:03 - 00:39:27:11 00:00:02:08 And it is funny to me
2
83
00:39:27:13 - 00:39:30:08 00:00:02:19 that happened to me and that it carried on
3
83 and it is weird,
00:39:30:10 - 00:39:33:14 00:00:03:04
4 it is this sort of like...
83 The people that I idolized

00:39:34:10 - 00:39:36:21 00:00:02:11
5 and the bands that were bigger than me
83 when I first started out

00:39:36:23 - 00:39:39:12 00:00:02:13
6 and the bands that I would follow around
83
00:39:39:14 - 00:39:41:17 00:00:02:03 like, some of them just, sort of, never...
7
83 never made it out of that

00:39:41:19 - 00:39:43:22 00:00:02:03
8 South London scene.
83 And also never really

00:39:44:00 - 00:39:47:06 00:00:03:06
9 quite made it out of like
84
00:39:47:08 - 00:39:48:18 00:00:01:10 the pub scene and the drinking.
0
84
00:39:48:20 - 00:39:51:12 00:00:02:16 And I do want...
1
84
00:39:51:14 - 00:39:52:22 00:00:01:08 This is the thing I can't tell
2
84 I'm a bit like,

00:39:53:00 - 00:39:55:23 00:00:02:23
3 〝Would I just still be there
84 drinking in South London

00:39:56:01 - 00:39:58:09 00:00:02:08
4 if this hadn't happened for me?〝
84 You know, did the performance

00:39:58:11 - 00:40:01:03 00:00:02:16
5 save me in a way
84 even though, usually the pressures

00:40:01:05 - 00:40:05:22 00:00:04:17
6 of fame make things much worse?
84
00:40:06:00 - 00:40:07:17 00:00:01:17 You also feel a kind of like...
7
84 Because if you start out

00:40:07:19 - 00:40:09:10 00:00:01:15
8 on the indie scene,
84
00:40:09:12 - 00:40:11:01 00:00:01:13 you always feel this indie guilt.
9
85
00:40:11:03 - 00:40:12:11 00:00:01:08 That's what I was getting at.
0
42
85 Yeah, you always feel

00:40:12:13 - 00:40:14:06 00:00:01:17
1 this indie guilt of like...
85 It's like we're all in this together.

00:40:14:08 - 00:40:16:17 00:00:02:09
2 Yeah, we're a scene.
85
00:40:16:19 - 00:40:18:17 00:00:01:22 Yeah. And when you kind of, like, get...
3
85 Because it's also,

00:40:19:02 - 00:40:22:02 00:00:03:00
4 you feel like those people
85 really know you and knew you

00:40:22:04 - 00:40:25:09 00:00:03:05
5 at your youngest and your messiest.
85 And so when you come

00:40:25:11 - 00:40:26:23 00:00:01:12
6 out there and you're like,
85 -〝I am Florence + the Machine.〞

00:40:27:01 - 00:40:29:02 00:00:02:01
7 -King.
85 〝I am king now.〞
00:40:29:04 - 00:40:31:18 00:00:02:14
8 They're like, 〝We knew you
85 when you were just like,

00:40:31:20 - 00:40:34:15 00:00:02:19
9 running around South London.〝
86 -Barefoot.
00:40:35:08 - 00:40:37:00 00:00:01:16
0 -Barefoot...
86 -...drunk...
00:40:37:02 - 00:40:38:21 00:00:01:19
1 -Big thing about Flo, always barefoot.
86 -...screaming.
00:40:38:23 - 00:40:41:09 00:00:02:10
2 -I mean the amount of times I'd be DJing
86
00:40:41:11 - 00:40:42:21 00:00:01:10 and there'd be Flo on the floor
3
86 and there's broken pint glasses

00:40:42:23 - 00:40:46:01 00:00:03:02
4 everywhere.
86
00:40:46:03 - 00:40:47:17 00:00:01:14 And she's just like, literally
5
86 dancing around to The Rapture

00:40:47:19 - 00:40:50:07 00:00:02:12
6 〝House of Jealous Lovers,〞
86
00:40:50:09 - 00:40:51:07 00:00:00:22 with bare feet.
7
86
00:40:51:09 - 00:40:53:02 00:00:01:17 And covered in club dirt as well...
8
86 -Just dirty...
00:40:53:04 - 00:40:54:23 00:00:01:19
9 -You know, club dirt.
87
00:40:55:01 - 00:40:57:09 00:00:02:08 Just blood on the feet.
0
43
87
00:40:57:11 - 00:41:00:03 00:00:02:16 And I'm just like, 〝Wow, man. This is...
1
87 Don't worry about it, she'll be fine

00:41:00:05 - 00:41:03:16 00:00:03:11
2 by the pyramid stage next year.〝
87 I'll be like, no one would've thought...

00:41:04:12 - 00:41:08:23 00:00:04:11
3 〝Well yeah, that person will get there.〞
87 Like, no, everyone would be like,

00:41:09:01 - 00:41:10:19 00:00:01:18
4 〝She will be dead.〞
87
00:41:10:21 - 00:41:13:10 00:00:02:13 No, no, no, that's where you're wrong.
5
87
00:41:13:22 - 00:41:15:07 00:00:01:09 Everybody knew.
6
87
00:41:16:01 - 00:41:18:21 00:00:02:20 Everybody knew, Florence.
7
87 Everyone knew, like everyone did. Like, it

00:41:18:23 - 00:41:21:10 00:00:02:11
8 was...
87 And to your point,

00:41:21:12 - 00:41:24:13 00:00:03:01
9 I think it was just unstoppable really.
88 -In a way.
00:41:24:15 - 00:41:25:23 00:00:01:08
0 -Yeah.
88 And that's what I mean

00:41:26:01 - 00:41:27:20 00:00:01:19
1 by surrender, like...
88
00:41:27:22 - 00:41:30:05 00:00:02:07 It's crazy to me how
2
88 you've been able to hold on through this

00:41:30:07 - 00:41:34:00 00:00:03:17
3 because, honestly,
88 I don't know too many artists

00:41:34:02 - 00:41:36:21 00:00:02:19
4 where the music
88 and the words and the performance

00:41:37:05 - 00:41:40:19 00:00:03:14
5 flow through them
88 with almost a force

00:41:40:21 - 00:41:45:09 00:00:04:12
6 that is not yours to conjure.
88
00:41:45:11 - 00:41:46:14 00:00:01:03 Does that make sense?
7
88 Well, I think that's the right way

00:41:46:16 - 00:41:51:07 00:00:04:15
8 to put it because it's not mine.
88 I feel like if I'm really

00:41:51:09 - 00:41:56:13 00:00:05:04
9 in the right space creatively
89
00:41:56:15 - 00:41:58:08 00:00:01:17 and with a performance,
0
44
89
00:41:58:20 - 00:42:03:11 00:00:04:15 it is something that is not me.
1
89
00:42:03:13 - 00:42:06:06 00:00:02:17 And it is so much more powerful than I am.
2
89 And I always wish that

00:42:06:08 - 00:42:09:23 00:00:03:15
3 I could, like, figure out
89 how to be the person that I am

00:42:10:01 - 00:42:12:16 00:00:02:15
4 on stage in my daily life.
89 -But it's not accessible to me.

00:42:12:18 - 00:42:16:03 00:00:03:09
5 -How could you be that all the time
89 when you just said

00:42:16:05 - 00:42:18:09 00:00:02:04
6 it's so much more powerful than you?
89 That's got to take its toll.

00:42:18:11 - 00:42:20:21 00:00:02:10
7 Like, I'm not trying to be dramatic,
89 but when you're out there

00:42:20:23 - 00:42:23:14 00:00:02:15
8 putting so much into this
89 and in a way,
00:42:23:16 - 00:42:26:01 00:00:02:09
9 it's like you're just a vessel for this.
90 How could you then just, like,

00:42:26:03 - 00:42:30:08 00:00:04:05
0 keep that gas on all the time?
90 That's why you need

00:42:30:10 - 00:42:33:01 00:00:02:15
1 to step away, you know.
90 I think that is why after High As Hope

00:42:33:03 - 00:42:38:07 00:00:05:04
2 which especially like, the gigs...
90
00:42:38:09 - 00:42:40:00 00:00:01:15 Also with that album being so vulnerable
3
90 and the things I was singing about,

00:42:40:02 - 00:42:43:03 00:00:03:01
4 like, the gigs got so much better.
90 Every time you give more,

00:42:43:05 - 00:42:49:07 00:00:06:02
5 it takes more out of you and...
90 And the shows got better,

00:42:49:09 - 00:42:52:12 00:00:03:03
6 but I got more and more exhausted.
90 And that's when I was like,

00:42:52:14 - 00:42:55:12 00:00:02:22
7 you know, in the...
90 In 〝Morning Elvis,〞
00:42:55:14 - 00:42:58:12 00:00:02:22
8 after every tour I swear I'll quit.
90
00:42:58:14 - 00:43:00:13 00:00:01:23 You know, I was like, 〝I can't do this.〞
9
91 But I always come back to it

00:43:00:15 - 00:43:05:21 00:00:05:06
0 because it is a place of...
45
91 If I'm in the right mindset

00:43:06:12 - 00:43:08:23 00:00:02:11
1 and I'm doing it for the right reasons
91
00:43:09:01 - 00:43:11:06 00:00:02:05 which is really just true connection
2
91 with whatever that thing is

00:43:11:08 - 00:43:14:08 00:00:03:00
3 outside of myself and the audience.
91
00:43:15:07 - 00:43:17:10 00:00:02:03 It's so peaceful, that place,
4
91 even though it's the loudest place

00:43:17:12 - 00:43:19:12 00:00:02:00
5 in the world,
91 it is where I'm suddenly like,

00:43:19:14 - 00:43:23:02 00:00:03:12
6 〝Things make sense to me here.〞
91
00:43:23:04 - 00:43:24:14 00:00:01:10 So that's I think why...
7
91 And it's basically,

00:43:25:05 - 00:43:28:13 00:00:03:08
8 I think the way I describe it is what...
91
00:43:29:15 - 00:43:32:10 00:00:02:19 What alcohol used to do for me is it would
9
92
00:43:32:12 - 00:43:34:14 00:00:02:02 turn the sound down in my head.
0
92 So I would have this endless

00:43:34:16 - 00:43:39:18 00:00:05:02
1 existential chattering all the time.
92 Like, why, why, when, how,

00:43:39:20 - 00:43:44:05 00:00:04:09
2 who, what's going to happen?
92 And when I drank, it was like

00:43:44:07 - 00:43:48:04 00:00:03:21
3 looking for oblivion, but in a bad way.
92 And I think what performance does for me

00:43:48:06 - 00:43:51:22 00:00:03:16
4 is it also turns all that sound down
92 and you do get to experience

00:43:52:00 - 00:43:56:06 00:00:04:06
5 the kind of positive oblivion
92
00:43:56:08 - 00:43:58:01 00:00:01:17 of a loss of self.
6
92
00:43:59:10 - 00:44:00:23 00:00:01:13 But It's so funny to me
7
92 because I've said this

00:44:01:01 - 00:44:03:01 00:00:02:00
8 a couple of times and I'm like
92
00:44:03:03 - 00:44:04:17 00:00:01:14 〝What am I actually saying?
9
93 That to be at peace, I need everyone

00:44:04:19 - 00:44:08:01 00:00:03:06
0 in the room to be looking at me?〝
46
93
00:44:08:13 - 00:44:10:02 00:00:01:13 Like, what...
1
93 I hate to break it to you,

00:44:10:04 - 00:44:13:05 00:00:03:01
2 but that's kind of the art of performance.
93 What am I saying
00:44:13:07 - 00:44:16:05 00:00:02:22
3 that the only time I feel relaxed
93
00:44:16:07 - 00:44:17:21 00:00:01:14 is if everyone in the room is listening?
4
93 If you're looking
00:44:17:23 - 00:44:20:00 00:00:02:01
5 for an intervention group
93 just go on Apple Music

00:44:20:02 - 00:44:23:00 00:00:02:22
6 and search 〝artist.〞
93
00:44:23:17 - 00:44:25:16 00:00:01:23 I was like, 〝Oh, man, what...〞
7
93 We're all the same. We're all the same.

00:44:25:18 - 00:44:28:23 00:00:03:05
8 All the same. All the same.
93 Every human being

00:44:29:01 - 00:44:30:18 00:00:01:17
9 in their own way is the same.
94
00:44:30:20 - 00:44:33:11 00:00:02:15 But, you said something just then,
0
94 which is really interesting

00:44:33:13 - 00:44:36:01 00:00:02:12
1 to me, which is...
94 It serves the same purpose

00:44:36:03 - 00:44:38:10 00:00:02:07
2 that alcohol used to.
94 One was a destructive distraction,

00:44:38:12 - 00:44:40:23 00:00:02:11
3 one is a healthy distraction?
94 So when you didn't have the performance,

00:44:41:01 - 00:44:44:08 00:00:03:07
4 were you worried that you might slip back
94 -into drinking and old habits?

00:44:44:10 - 00:44:48:06 00:00:03:20
5 -Yes, big time.
94
00:44:48:08 - 00:44:50:13 00:00:02:05 Because it's also...
6
94 -It was like, when you...

00:44:51:12 - 00:44:53:13 00:00:02:01
7 -What else are you going to do?
94
00:44:53:15 - 00:44:55:03 00:00:01:12 Yeah. I was like, 〝What's the point?〞
8
94 -Yeah.
00:44:55:05 - 00:44:56:15 00:00:01:10
9 -I was like, 〝What's the point?〞
95
00:44:56:17 - 00:44:59:15 00:00:02:22 〝I have 18 hours to spend here.
0
47
95 Right? And I'm on my own or

00:44:59:17 - 00:45:03:01 00:00:03:08
1 I'm in with one other person.
95
00:45:03:03 - 00:45:04:23 00:00:01:20 What the **** are we going to do?〝
2
95 I was like, 〝What's the point?〞

00:45:05:01 - 00:45:07:06 00:00:02:05
3 I was also like...
95 I think I was like,

00:45:07:08 - 00:45:10:23 00:00:03:15
4 〝What's the point of trying to be good
95
00:45:11:01 - 00:45:12:21 00:00:01:20 or trying to keep myself..〝
5
95 Because a lot of what makes

00:45:12:23 - 00:45:16:02 00:00:03:03
6 sobriety amazing
95
00:45:16:04 - 00:45:18:19 00:00:02:15 is that you get this very big life.
7
95 So you get to do and experience things

00:45:18:21 - 00:45:22:13 00:00:03:16
8 that you would have completely ruined
95
00:45:22:15 - 00:45:24:17 00:00:02:02 had you been drinking or you don't...
9
96 You wouldn't be able to show up for,

00:45:24:19 - 00:45:27:14 00:00:02:19
0 or you'd just mess things up.
96 And so sobriety gives you

00:45:27:16 - 00:45:31:18 00:00:04:02
1 an ability to live.
96 And when there was no living

00:45:31:20 - 00:45:35:04 00:00:03:08
2 to be done, I was like,
96
00:45:35:06 - 00:45:37:20 00:00:02:14 〝I don't know, maybe just drink.〞
3
96 -I guess...
00:45:37:22 - 00:45:39:16 00:00:01:18
4 -Yeah. Yeah.
96 Maybe. But I think luckily

00:45:39:18 - 00:45:45:04 00:00:05:10
5 I'm further along now that I'm like...
96
00:45:45:06 - 00:45:46:12 00:00:01:06 Discipline's a real thing.
6
96 It's not even discipline.

00:45:46:14 - 00:45:49:07 00:00:02:17
7 It just doesn't...
96 It crossed my mind
00:45:49:09 - 00:45:53:10 00:00:04:01
8 but I'm like, it's not...
96 Yeah. It doesn't stick.

00:45:54:00 - 00:45:57:06 00:00:03:06
9 It's like a fleeting thought.
97
00:45:57:08 - 00:45:59:04 00:00:01:20 But I definitely had that, like...
0
48
97
00:45:59:06 - 00:46:01:19 00:00:02:13 Without that outlet, without creativity...
1
97 definitely some of those thoughts

00:46:02:14 - 00:46:04:17 00:00:02:03
2 crossed my mind.
97 Can we just spend one minute

00:46:04:19 - 00:46:06:16 00:00:01:21
3 talking about 〝The Bomb〞?
97
00:46:06:18 - 00:46:09:20 00:00:03:02 I love that song so much.
4
97 -Do you? Oh, I'm so glad.

00:46:09:22 - 00:46:12:19 00:00:02:21
5 -Oh, it's...
97 It's one of the more revealing records,

00:46:13:09 - 00:46:17:06 00:00:03:21
6 songs, on an album full of them.
97 And I just would love

00:46:17:08 - 00:46:19:18 00:00:02:10
7 some thought on that song.
97 I'd promised myself

00:46:19:20 - 00:46:21:23 00:00:02:03
8 I'd ask you about that song.
97
00:46:22:01 - 00:46:23:20 00:00:01:19 So, that song...
9
98
00:46:24:21 - 00:46:28:11 00:00:03:14 A lot of this record feels like each...
0
98 There's a lot of nods, I think,

00:46:28:13 - 00:46:31:06 00:00:02:17
1 to the previous records,
98
00:46:31:08 - 00:46:34:01 00:00:02:17 all three of them, in this album,
2
98
00:46:34:03 - 00:46:35:20 00:00:01:17 which is nice because I feel like somehow
3
98 I'm bridging the gaps between

00:46:35:22 - 00:46:38:05 00:00:02:07
4 all of them on this record.
98 Like, all the things

00:46:38:07 - 00:46:40:08 00:00:02:01
5 I've been interested in.
98 And I feel like this song,

00:46:40:10 - 00:46:43:00 00:00:02:14
6 is the kind of...
98 It's nodding to what I was

00:46:44:05 - 00:46:47:21 00:00:03:16
7 thinking about in terms of like
98
00:46:48:22 - 00:46:51:19 00:00:02:21 unavailability in people
8
98 in High As Hope,
00:46:52:10 - 00:46:56:02 00:00:03:16
9 in songs like 〝Big God,〞 you know,
99 with, like, the obsession

00:46:56:04 - 00:46:59:07 00:00:03:03
0 of someone who'll never text you back.
49
99 Like, why is that,

00:46:59:09 - 00:47:03:17 00:00:04:08
1 why is that emptiness so appealing?
99
00:47:03:19 - 00:47:07:03 00:00:03:08 Why is the person who creates
2
99
00:47:07:05 - 00:47:10:02 00:00:02:21 the most space and gives you nothing,
3
99
00:47:10:04 - 00:47:11:06 00:00:01:02 the most appealing person?
4
99 And really, that's because

00:47:11:08 - 00:47:12:19 00:00:01:11
5 if you're a songwriter,
99 they give you

00:47:12:21 - 00:47:14:19 00:00:01:22
6 the most enormous space for fantasy.
99 And you can write anything you want

00:47:14:21 - 00:47:18:09 00:00:03:12
7 because they don't really exist.
99 I love how the tradition of the bomb in

00:47:21:23 - 00:47:24:10 00:00:02:11
8 radio
99
00:47:24:12 - 00:47:26:23 00:00:02:11 is when someone, like, drops a big song.
9
10 I've now been able to transfer

00:47:27:01 - 00:47:31:00 00:00:03:23
00 that experience into big thoughts.
10
00:47:31:02 - 00:47:32:17 00:00:01:15 So, I've worked it out now.
01
10
00:47:32:19 - 00:47:35:00 00:00:02:05 Whenever anybody drops a big thought...
02
10
00:47:37:19 - 00:47:39:09 00:00:01:14 You've had two. That's a lot.
03
10
00:47:39:11 - 00:47:42:11 00:00:03:00 So I think it was...
04
10 ...conceptually, it was, like,

00:47:42:13 - 00:47:46:05 00:00:03:16
05 understanding that a bit more,
10
00:47:46:07 - 00:47:48:02 00:00:01:19 which I think...
06
10
00:47:48:16 - 00:47:49:21 00:00:01:05 And it was like...
07
10 ...every time I think, in my life,

00:47:51:11 - 00:47:54:09 00:00:02:22
08 I've been in a stable place,
10 something or someone
00:47:54:21 - 00:47:57:10 00:00:02:13
09 will come up and be like,
10 〝How do you feel

00:47:57:12 - 00:48:00:08 00:00:02:20
10 about blowing all this up?〞
50
10
00:48:02:11 - 00:48:05:04 00:00:02:17 〝How do you feel about...〞
11
10
00:48:05:06 - 00:48:07:20 00:00:02:14 And it will seem so enticing.
12
10 And I think a lot of my times

00:48:07:22 - 00:48:11:17 00:00:03:19
13 I've thought that it was love.
10 And actually what I realized is it's

00:48:11:23 - 00:48:16:02 00:00:04:03
14 just that I want to annihilate myself.
10 And that's a tendency

00:48:16:04 - 00:48:19:06 00:00:03:02
15 I've had for my whole life.
10 And whether I could use drugs

00:48:19:08 - 00:48:22:05 00:00:02:21
16 or whether I could use drinking
10 or whether I could use self-loathing,

00:48:22:07 - 00:48:25:22 00:00:03:15
17 or I'm just going to use a person.
10
00:48:26:00 - 00:48:28:22 00:00:02:22 And I think, again, it's like...
18
10 That is a little bit...

00:48:29:16 - 00:48:32:23 00:00:03:07
19 I deal with that on 〝Back In Town〞 as well
10 〝I came for the pleasure,

00:48:33:01 - 00:48:35:01 00:00:02:00
20 but I save for the pain.〞
10
00:48:35:03 - 00:48:36:13 00:00:01:10 Oh, what a lyric!
21
10
00:48:37:06 - 00:48:38:20 00:00:01:14 It's also this idea of, like,
22
10
00:48:38:22 - 00:48:42:12 00:00:03:14 〝Oh, it isn't love. It's just that also...
23
10
00:48:42:14 - 00:48:44:01 00:00:01:11 It's also...
24
10 It's a fear of growing up

00:48:44:03 - 00:48:46:16 00:00:02:13
25 and a fear of getting older.〝
10 Because if you regenerate yourself

00:48:46:18 - 00:48:49:11 00:00:02:17
26 constantly through other people,
10
00:48:49:13 - 00:48:51:12 00:00:01:23 by blowing up, changing everything,
27
10
00:48:51:14 - 00:48:54:13 00:00:02:23 you never have to face aging or death.
28
10 Yeah, it's identity renewal,

00:48:54:15 - 00:48:57:03 00:00:02:12
29 is what it is.
10 Constant identity renewal

00:48:57:05 - 00:49:00:06 00:00:03:01
30 through other people.
51
10
00:49:00:08 - 00:49:02:12 00:00:02:04 And I think it was me staring at myself.
31
10 And when I'm saying

00:49:02:14 - 00:49:06:05 00:00:03:15
32 to this person or whatever,
10 〝Unavailability is the only thing

00:49:06:07 - 00:49:08:15 00:00:02:08
33 that turns you on,〞
10 you're always talking

00:49:08:17 - 00:49:10:08 00:00:01:15
34 to yourself in a song.
10 -100%.
00:49:10:10 - 00:49:11:23 00:00:01:13
35 -Whenever you sing something
10 that you think you're singing

00:49:12:01 - 00:49:13:12 00:00:01:11
36 to someone else,
10
00:49:13:14 - 00:49:15:02 00:00:01:12 you're always singing to yourself.
37
10 -Really.
00:49:15:04 - 00:49:17:06 00:00:02:02
38 -That is the most...
10 That is the most unspoken rule

00:49:17:08 - 00:49:20:04 00:00:02:20
39 of songwriting.
10
00:49:20:06 - 00:49:22:05 00:00:01:23 And no one ever wants to acknowledge it
40
10 because it gives
00:49:22:07 - 00:49:25:05 00:00:02:22
41 the game away completely. Right?
10 Everyone hides behind their thing

00:49:25:07 - 00:49:28:23 00:00:03:16
42 but just, you never truly divorce yourself
10 -from that experience.

00:49:29:01 - 00:49:31:03 00:00:02:02
43 -That's it. You're always saying
10 something to yourself
00:49:31:05 - 00:49:34:02 00:00:02:21
44 even if it's supposed to be
10
00:49:34:04 - 00:49:36:14 00:00:02:10 a very pointed thing at someone else.
45
10 -So...
00:49:36:16 - 00:49:39:04 00:00:02:12
46 -Flo, here's the really good news.
10
00:49:39:06 - 00:49:40:19 00:00:01:13 You are growing up.
47
10
00:49:43:07 - 00:49:45:05 00:00:01:22 I'm seeing things as how they are.
48
10 But here's the good news,

00:49:45:07 - 00:49:48:22 00:00:03:15
49 you're still you.
10 And you've made

00:49:49:00 - 00:49:52:01 00:00:03:01
50 the album of your life so far.
52
10 Like, I don't see how

00:49:52:03 - 00:49:54:23 00:00:02:20
51 you can be a fan of you
10 and listen to this album

00:49:55:17 - 00:49:57:12 00:00:01:19
52 and not just feel like,
10
00:49:57:14 - 00:50:00:01 00:00:02:11 〝Wow, all roads led to this.〞
53
10 And that's all we can ever hope for,

00:50:00:03 - 00:50:04:19 00:00:04:16
54 is that as you grow...
10 ...into somebody that you like,

00:50:06:12 - 00:50:09:14 00:00:03:02
55 because I don't think any fan
10
00:50:09:16 - 00:50:13:13 00:00:03:21 truly wants the trade to be art over life.
56
10 -Yeah. No.
00:50:14:05 - 00:50:15:10 00:00:01:05
57 -Right?
10 So, you have to find a way

00:50:15:12 - 00:50:18:00 00:00:02:12
58 to take it back.
10
00:50:18:02 - 00:50:19:18 00:00:01:16 Because you've given us enough...
59
10
00:50:20:21 - 00:50:22:15 00:00:01:18 ...but yet you've still given us this.
60
10
00:50:22:17 - 00:50:25:16 00:00:02:23 And it's like such a triumph, mate.
61
10
00:50:25:18 - 00:50:29:04 00:00:03:10 I feel like I'm so...
62
10
00:50:30:02 - 00:50:32:17 00:00:02:15 What's nice about it is I feel like
63
10 I managed to take
00:50:32:19 - 00:50:34:20 00:00:02:01
64 everything that I learned
10
00:50:34:22 - 00:50:37:04 00:00:02:06 in the last 15 years and consolidate it
65
10 into this record, into this art,

00:50:37:06 - 00:50:40:05 00:00:02:23
66 into the videos.
10 So, it does feel, at that moment,

00:50:40:17 - 00:50:44:15 00:00:03:22
67 if I was to take a break afterwards,
10 I would be happy with,

00:50:44:17 - 00:50:49:08 00:00:04:15
68 like, how I left things.
10 You know, I felt like if had to prove

00:50:49:10 - 00:50:54:15 00:00:05:05
69 something to myself somehow,
10 I kind of did it on this record,

00:50:54:17 - 00:51:01:01 00:00:06:08
70 which it's, you know, it's funny.
53
10
00:51:01:03 - 00:51:02:19 00:00:01:16 If something's good, it means that
71
10 you don't think about it anymore

00:51:02:21 - 00:51:06:08 00:00:03:11
72 when it's done.
10 You know, like, it's always

00:51:06:10 - 00:51:09:01 00:00:02:15
73 the things that you didn't quite
10 like, get right or work hard enough

00:51:09:03 - 00:51:13:00 00:00:03:21
74 that you keep thinking about for years.
10 And there's something

00:51:13:02 - 00:51:15:09 00:00:02:07
75 about this record where
10
00:51:15:11 - 00:51:18:02 00:00:02:15 I feel like I can kinda go, 〝Okay.〞
76
10
00:51:18:04 - 00:51:20:00 00:00:01:20 I can, like, think about other stuff.
77
54

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The glorious surrender. I've always felt

that you're searching

where you're just willing

and then take a step back

6 00:00:15:23 - 00:00:17:21 00:00:01:22 What just happened?〝

And even in that song, just there,

I feel like you're actually

That to get this out of me,

11 00:00:33:11 - 00:00:34:21 00:00:01:10 and be okay with it.

Yeah. I think it's out of all

...it's sort of the purest sentiment

14 00:00:44:21 - 00:00:46:21 00:00:02:00 Distilled into why...

...why music is so important to me,

why performance is so important to me,

17 00:00:54:00 - 00:00:55:12 00:00:01:12 It's such a simple phrase,

but I feel like,

19 00:00:57:09 - 00:00:58:14 00:00:01:05 Oh, it's complex though.

The concept of freedom

21 00:01:05:00 - 00:01:07:05 00:00:02:05 Yeah, and I think that's why I like...

22 00:01:08:09 - 00:01:11:17 00:00:03:08 ...songs so much because I feel like...

23 00:01:13:14 - 00:01:15:23 00:00:02:09 In lyrics and songs,

I feel like in a song,

ideas and theory,

Like, there's an existential bridge

Oh, talk about it.

-and still keep singing.

29 00:01:30:11 - 00:01:32:14 00:00:02:03 Like, the existential bridge,

just a huge concept

just a nod to like,

-That's the album.

-Hi, by the way.

...I know this album,

and listen to this album long before

Oh, when I told you

Yeah, it's so maddening.

40 00:01:59:17 - 00:02:01:06 00:00:01:13 There's only four of us.

There's me and my friend who I work with,

and we're standing there

and we're having the best time,

Florence says, 〝I'm probably

Just that moment

And I always think that every album

but the moment I have to give

I need to start again.

49 00:02:26:13 - 00:02:29:04 00:00:02:15 Standard, artist issue.

But I'd like to ask you,

51 00:02:31:14 - 00:02:33:21 00:00:02:07 you really have an acute sense of that.

Are you any closer to understanding

53 00:02:39:01 - 00:02:41:17 00:00:02:16 It's the vulnerability of it, I think.

54 00:02:41:19 - 00:02:44:23 00:00:03:04 And, also, making a record is so fun,

55 00:02:45:01 - 00:02:46:21 00:00:01:20 and when I make records,

56 00:02:47:10 - 00:02:50:09 00:00:02:23 I make them really like...

I have to make things with the idea

and I'm in a private dialog,

...so then when you get to the

60 00:03:04:00 - 00:03:05:16 00:00:01:16 is going to be completely public,

It's like, I've tricked myself again.

-You did it to yourself again.

63 00:03:11:14 - 00:03:13:08 00:00:01:18 And you've dared yourself by that point.

65 00:03:15:00 - 00:03:18:00 00:00:03:00 ...to not do it, you'd regret it forever.

Let me ask you this.