dictate2us

dictate2us, Maple House, Haymarket Street, Bury, BL9 0AR

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Interview 15

S1 Speaker 1 Male Voice

S2 Speaker 2 Male Voice

Timecode Speaker Transcript

00:00:01 S1 So, I suppose to get going, just wondering if you could perhaps start
by telling me a bit about your experiences, either with, whether it's
substances, alcohol, you know, kind of what you, you know…
00:00:12 S2 Yeah. As the substance, my substance use, I suppose, started from a
young age. It was the progression.
00:00:21 S1 Right?
00:00:21 S2 I mean, I started on solvent abuse.
00:00:26 S1 Yeah.
00:00:26 S2 …And then that was short, very short, like solvent are. I was happy
child, and I think that's why that started, children's homes. A lot of
emotional trouble, you know?
00:00:39 S1 Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:40 S2 As a really, we very, as a kid, I was very emotional.
00:00:47 S1 Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:47 S2 …And it progressed to alcohol and then cannabis, and then LSD and
speed, and then it progressed to ecstasy and the rose scene came out.
So that lasted for a couple of years. By this age time, I'm about 19.
00:01:09 S1 Yeah.
00:01:09 S2 …And then at the age of 24, I progressed to heroin, which has been
my Bain ever since. From then, all my life all up to the present day.
And it was heroin IV, caused myself lots of pain, and lots of other
people pain.
00:01:37 S1 Yeah.
00:01:37 S2 But it, I kept doing it. And it just got worse. You know, tried to stop
here on my own. I tried agencies, you know, like drug and alcohol
agencies.
00:01:59 S1 Oh, yeah.
00:01:59 S2 Descriptions, rehab. But 24, but I wasn't ready for it. It was more a
court order, but that was at 24. That's when I just started taking it off,
you know?
00:02:14 S1 Yeah.
00:02:14 S2 I had, I was saying I hadn't suffered enough. I hadn't, I wasn't ready to
change then.
00:02:22 S1 Yeah.
00:02:22 S2 You know, by the time I was ready to change, I just more or less did it
on myself, you know?
00:02:29 S1 Okay.

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00:02:29 S2 …Which is like where I'm at now, I mean, I'm what, 49? Make
(inaudible: 00:02:38)
00:02:38 S1 (laugh).
00:02:38 S2 I'm 49 now, so that puts a good almost 30 years, 28 years.
00:02:49 S1 Yeah.
00:02:49 S2 I was using just heroin. It's affected my health. No. Night at times, I've
been in hospital, this the last year I've lost count.
00:02:57 S1 Mm--hm.
00:02:57 S2 I still have a panic attack. I've never had of those before, two
infections in my leg. I've lost the use of my left leg from the knee
down from the infection that petrified like the nerves and the
tendons and all that. So I walked the permanent limp. Now on that
side, about a month ago, heart stopped. One of the staff here had to
massage my heart. And, you know, cause I was unconscious. It's like,
oh, well, like, it, like it never happened, you know?
00:03:37 S1 Mm--hm.
00:03:38 S2 …Like, so (inaudible: 00:03:38) about it. But I think that's more like
wearing a mask, if you know what I mean. It's more…
00:03:42 S1 Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:42 S2 You know, putting the big face.
00:03:45 S1 Yes. I think you're…
00:03:48 S2 …but, that partly that, and that I don't care about myself so much
anymore.
00:03:51 S1 Mm--hm.
00:03:51 S2 …You know, was a partner a couple of years ago. A couple years ago
tomorrow to cancer that was aggressive, you know, and they just
went to the hospital and they said to her, oh yeah, that what we can
do, you know, palliative care, blah, blah, blah. You are going to die.
And that's that, you know, and that's what ended up in the hospital.
And then I ended up homeless at the same time and come out and
tried to commit suicide or, you know. When I came here, I was in a
real bad mess.
00:04:24 S1 Yeah.
00:04:24 S2 Two years ago. I remember coming into the chapel, they brought me
in. I couldn't walk. I was urinating myself. You know, and then I'd lost
my left toe, you know, because I've just come out of hospital. I had
crutches. And I was like, you know, cause I'd you off. And I was walk
when I was going along with the crutches, it was just dragging my toe.
I couldn't feel it. And, so I went back in hospital again, lost my toe,
came back here and I was in a really bad way, a really bad mess.
00:04:57 S1 Mm--hm.
00:04:57 S2 …And that was two years ago, you know?
00:05:00 S1 Mm--hm.
00:05:00 S2 …Since then, I've, I haven't stopped using that completely, but I'm lot,
a lot better. I'm in a much better place now than, than I was.

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00:05:15 S1 Yeah.
00:05:17 S2 And I think a lot of it is not so much drug problem. I see this now, I
didn't see it then.
00:05:23 S1 Mm--hm.
00:05:23 S2 but I see it now. My problem is, is only half drugs. The other half is
being in a destructive relationship.
00:05:32 S1 Oh yeah.
00:05:34 S2 You know, Leanne who passed away two years ago, that relationship
was around using drugs. My first relationship was around using drugs.
00:05:45 S1 Mm--hm.
00:05:45 S2 …And then I know she passed away like two years ago, but since she
passed, I found coping was not taking drugs so much. It is easier.
00:05:56 S1 Yeah.
00:05:56 S2 You know, it's not influenced by outside influences, you know.
00:06:01 S1 Yeah.
00:06:01 S2 And again, that goes back to my emotional stuff from when I was a kid
and I only put this together like about a year and a half ago. And I
pieced it all together. I just didn't realize that that's where, you know,
I have to start a relationships and I didn't do, you know.
00:06:18 S1 Mm--hm.
00:06:18 S2 So Yeah. I feel like no, that I'm headed in the right direction, you
know?
00:06:25 S1 Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:25 S2 I'm…I tour the church down the road.
00:06:30 S1 Oh, brilliant.
00:06:30 S2 I went to for the first time last Sunday, going, being baptized next
week on the 12th.
00:06:35 S1 Yeah.
00:06:35 S2 Well, yeah. Next we recap on the sat on the 12th. And, yeah. Things
are…I'm heading in a better…I'm in a better place, you know? Yeah. I
don’t what more.
00:06:50 S1 That's honestly, that's, that's wonderful to hear. And thank you for…
you've answered most of my questions in one go, but I'll probably dig
a bit deeper on some of them, but no, I, that's, you know, it's really
positive that kind of like, things are on the right path.
00:07:06 S2 Yeah.
00:07:06 S1 It sounds like, I mean, you've done, sounds like you said some quite
amazing self-reflection over the last year. You mentioned about
thinking about kind of, you know, your drug use and kind of like, you
know, over that period. Can I just double check? So what do you think
when you look on that period, like the whole period of your life, what
were the main causes do you think you look at as that's why I was
taking drugs? You know…
00:07:34 S2 Well I started, I think it was more to find friends.

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00:07:39 S1 Yeah.
00:07:39 S2 …And like, be accepted and peer pressure.
00:07:44 S1 Yeah.
00:07:44 S2 …And, but then it more, it, it like morph changes. You know, as you
get older and move along. And it was a, a relationship. I was in a
relationship and she used drugs, so I carried on using drugs.
00:07:55 S1 Yeah.
00:07:55 S2 And it…it just got away from me. You, you know, I was never happy
with using drugs, cause I was with drug alcohol teams like, about a
year and a half after starting heroin.
00:08:09 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:09 S2 I mean, I didn't like it. It's been painful all the way through.
00:08:13 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:13 S2 …You know, it's like, it is like dying slowly, but you can't do anything
to stop it.
00:08:18 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:19 S2 …You know, and then you take more to cover up the fact that you
don't have a life.
00:08:23 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:23 S2 …You know, and all the while you're heading in that direction of like,
you know, wasting your life, you know, and so you're only making it
harder.
00:08:32 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:32 S2 You know, and it's like compounds and snowballs I suppose. You
know, it gets bigger and bigger and yeah. And, you know, when you,
you get to the age where, you know, just you probably, what's the
point? You know?
00:08:49 S1 Yeah.
00:08:49 S2 And I've been like that, you know. But there is a point, there is…it is
where, you know, it don't matter how old you are, it's like a miserable
existence.
00:08:58 S1 Mm--hm.
00:08:58 S2 …you know, it really is. You know. And lot people, I used to think, you
know, all being in somewhere like this where everyone uses, that's a
good testing ground, I think (laugh).
00:09:09 S1 Mm--hm.
00:09:09 S2 You know, if we can do it here, then I can do it anywhere. You know,
you know, these (inaudible: 00:09:14) have been around me all my
life anyway.
00:09:15 S1 Yeah.
00:09:15 S2 You know, so it's nothing new, you know. So I think when people say,
oh yeah. Cause I, I can't, you know, it's like excuse making I think,
cause I used to do it myself. You know, and it's not, you know, it's
not…it's me, just me. You're not strong enough yet. That's all.

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00:09:31 S1 Yeah.
00:09:31 S2 You know, so. Yeah. I don’t know what we started talking about then,
but (laugh) but…
00:09:36 S1 No. That's how I, you know, it should work. And I'd like to talk a little
bit more, dig a bit deeper on some of the bits about support. Cause
one of, some of our focuses on, you know, how can support, best
meet the needs of young people. And you, you made some really
good, already made some interesting observations about that You
did. Cause I was, it mentioned about when you were about 24, you
kind of, you did have drug and alcohol agencies that you
00:10:01 S2 Yeah. Talking,
00:10:02 S1 But it didn't, but it didn't kind of…you said you weren't ready.
00:10:05 S2 Yeah. It's not that it didn't work, it's that I didn't, you know, I accessed
it more cause I was suffering.
00:10:12 S1 Yeah.
00:10:12 S2 I hadn't suffered enough.
00:10:14 S1 Right.
00:10:14 S2 You know, that's how I learned I think was like the combination of like
Yeah. It's a combination of a lot of things. You know, suffering,
suffering some more.
00:10:23 S1 Mm--hm.
00:10:23 S2 Having enough, wanting something better. You know, and it
sometimes you've got to go the long way around, really long way
around, which is what I've done, you know? Yeah.
00:10:35 S1 So there was nothing the service of that point could have done
differently to…
00:10:39 S2 I don't think it would've made a difference.
00:10:40 S1 No, that's fine.
00:10:40 S2 You know, they know what they know, you know, they're probably
good at good at it, you know, but also they're fighting like a uphill
battle when it comes to people with drugs, you know? Cause people
first of all probably seek them out.
00:10:51 S1 Yeah.
00:10:51 S2 …Because they're suffering. You know, they don't want to stop. They
just want the suffering to stop. But they didn't realize that.
00:10:57 S1 Mm--hm.
00:10:57 S2 They just feel, I want this to stop. But really they want to keep taking
the drugs and they just want the pain to go away.
00:11:02 S1 Yeah.
00:11:02 S2 …And the pain that comes with using as well. Cause they say they
take it because to get rid of pain, dull pain. But that's not always the
case. The pain is caused by taking the drugs, you know, the
withdrawals to go into prison for stealing to find the habit, you know,
the ups and downs and all that nastiness that comes with it. The
feeding off each other, the assaults that happen to you or the, you

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know, the nasty places you go to on it. And, you know, that that's
making yourself suffer as well as other people. You know. And it only
gets worse. But you say, you know, and that's what I mean by learning
through your suffering. You know, you've got to have enough of that.
00:11:41 S1 Yeah.
00:11:41 S2 …Until you're ready if you don't learn the first time. The first couple of
times if you're not going to stop, then you think you go the first time,
second time, then you go the long way round, which is quite slow and
painful. You know, a lot of us…most of us die try it. You know? So,
yeah.
00:12:00 S1 Yeah. So, when you got to that point, I think you mentioned that
when you got to the, the second point where you were like, I need to
stop. I kind of, you know, or want to reduce. And you said that time
you did it yourself, you didn't go to a drug and alcohol agency. It was
more…
00:12:14 S2 I still had the support. They'd come in here. See me like once a week
and I'm on the methadone script. You know, so when I say I did it
myself, I mean it was my, my decision in my head. You know, no one
else looking like…
00:12:28 S1 Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:28 S2 And you know, and then looking for God as well, you know, I had to,
cause I had nothing. I had nothing to give me any strength.
00:12:37 S1 Yeah.
00:12:37 S2 …You know, and just doing it for myself and at this age it is hard cause
like my partner's now gone dead. I'm alone. There's nobody, you
know, so, you know, and yeah. So I was off looking for strength, which
is what I'm doing now.
00:12:54 S1 Mm--hm.
00:12:54 S2 …You know, I'm trying to find, discover better self-discovery, looking
for God and I want to see where it takes me. So yeah, Tangent off
again, I don’t know...
00:13:05 S1 No…not at all. Not at all, cause I think that's an important fact. Are
you…you know, that's a really important fact but actually for you, you
only felt really ready to kind of address it once you had that, you
know, ex you know, looking for strength and, and looking for a reason
and looking for a…which makes…
00:13:23 S2 Yeah. Because you make all those, you burn all those reasons away by
doing it. You know, so long, as long as I've done it. You know, you lose
everything long way. And you think you can't, you've lost everything,
then you lose some more.
00:13:36 S1 Yeah.
00:13:36 S2 …And make things worse and can't make it any worse. And then you
fall even further, you know, and then you fall even further and you
think you can't fall any further, then you fall some more, you know?
And then when you think things can't get any worse, it gets worse. So,

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yeah, you know, that's how it was. And so now after not just stop, I
have to find some, I have to build myself some reasons as well, you
know?

Completely.
00:13:58 S1 Yeah.
00:13:58 S2 So it's slow, but it is better than doing what I want.
00:14:05 S1 Yeah. It’s fair. I mean, we've covered ally. I want, wanted to, I mean, is
there anything, I think one of the interesting things that I've learnt
from you is the importance of the individual experience and the
individual strength and the motivations, which obviously from a policy
perspective, you know, it is more about the individual rather than,
you know, structures. I mean, is there anything in broader terms, and
it doesn't have to be linked to your experience, but in broader terms
that you feel needs to change or could change to better support
young people, either through young people, you know? I suppose that
both with a lens of potentially, you know.
00:14:45 S2 Off the bat like that I…see because I…I know looking from my side as a
young person, when I think back, you know, it's, for me, I think in a
broader sense, I mean the access, getting access is, is easy.
00:15:07 S1 Yeah.
00:15:10 S2 …Knowing that it's there, you know, that's easy, you know.
00:15:15 S1 Awareness. Yeah…Yeah.
00:15:15 S2 Know that there's help out there, you know, that's there and it's
thrown at you, you know, it's like, you know, it's not like you get lost,
you know, they'll walk you through it sort of thing, you know, or you
try this, you know, this description, it's hard like thinking back to the
beginning, you know? I suppose maybe like at school, I suppose when
you've got people that like spotters, you know, that look out for the
signs, you know.
00:15:43 S1 Yeah.
00:15:43 S2 Get catching people that, you know, get them, you know, don't try to
spot them before they get too far into it.
00:15:52 S1 Yeah. Early intervention kind of thing.
00:15:54 S2 Early intervention. You know, cause that wasn't so good when I was
younger, but now is it, you know, it's 2023. Is it (laugh)
00:16:03 S1 23…23 I think...
00:16:06 S2 I think my intervention was like in the nineties. So, you know, I'm not
an authority on it anymore.
00:16:12 S1 No…no. But it's, no, but it's, it's useful to have, you know, have that
perception. And as you said, I mean, it's encouraging to have a, a view
that actually no, there is awareness fair. There is access available, but
It's…
00:16:25 S2 Make them aware, you know? I mean, I remember them saying like,
your health's going effect, but I just didn't…it fell on deaf ears.

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00:16:34 S1 Mm--hm.
00:16:34 S2 …You know, and now the health issues are like rolling in. You know?
So yeah, it just, but that was just me, you know, so, yeah.
00:16:44 S1 I mean from what it's worth, I think it's us chime with some, some
stuff I've heard from other people didn't…
00:16:49 S2 …pretty scary. Big posters up. But when you put you can't put me
schools, it's inappropriate. So I don't know (laugh).
00:16:56 S1 But it's a really just point. Cause I think some, you know, somebody I,
you know, another personal aspect who's talked about how, you
know, they hadn't, when they were young, there wasn't really a
motivation for addressing substitute. Because it, you know, it was, it
was fun. It didn't have any negative impact. Well, it, and once they
moved.
00:17:11 S2 Because, you know, it was like, it was like saying us help out here with
druggie, but at the same time it was like saying we've got a drug
problem.
00:17:18 S1 Mm--hm.
00:17:18 S2 …In…in our communities. So it was like, you know, there wasn't a
silence outside saying (inaudible: 00:17:25), you know, got an alcohol
support team. It was a just in a marked building. You know, and it was
sort of, you know what I mean? I don't know. You know, it was, that
was, you know, do you know what I'm saying?
00:17:39 S1 I do.
00:17:40 S2 But I suppose things are different now. You know, they're adapted
ways and…
00:17:46 S1 Do you think there's still a stigma at all with drug and alcohols?
00:17:50 S2 I think there is on with certain drugs. Some drugs, you know, I was
younger, like some drugs were like obviously more acceptable than
others.
00:18:04 S1 Yeah.
00:18:04 S2 …Like, for some reason cocaine isn't that bad, but heroin is you. I'm
like, well hang a minute. I mean, one's as bad as the other. And if you
not, you end up, you know, doing the pure form of cocaine.
00:18:16 S1 Yeah.
00:18:16 S2 …Which is even just as bad as all of them really.
00:18:19 S1 Mm--hm.
00:18:19 S2 you know, they all lead you to the dark place, you know, and it all
leads you to the next drug as well. You know, progression.
00:18:29 S1 Yeah.
00:18:29 S2 So yeah, that's about me. Well, honestly, I'll just turn this...

(00.18.34)
(End of Audio)
Duration 19 minutes

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