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28/06/2021 Boy, 11, referred to Prevent for wanting to give ‘alms to the oppressed’ : unitedkingdom
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Posted by u/ainbheartach 1 day ago
Boy, 11, referred to Prevent for wanting to give ‘alms

to the oppressed’
theguardian.com/uk-new... 

 106 Comments  Award  Share  88% Upvoted
Comment as gsr_psy
What are your thoughts?
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newtowndrizzle · 13h
Stupid boy, the British way is to sell arms to the oppressors.
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AnselaJonla · 23h
Derbyshire
Isn't giving to the poor - aka alms - actually required in Islam, and therefore what you would
expect a young child raised in that faith to say they'd do with money?
(Heck, alms are supposed to be required in Christianity as well, but that's fallen by the
wayside by and large.)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/o93gpr/boy_11_referred_to_prevent_for_wanting_to_give/ 1/9
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deeacorn · 23h
Is it bad that I probably wouldn't know what alms were if it wasn't for Disney's Robin
Hood?
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shrewphys · 20h
Shropshire
Iiterally only know what it means because of the guy in Red Dead Redemption 2
holding out a cup and asking for "alms for the blind"
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Orngog · 9h
Which is what they say in Robin Hood, lol
Ffishsticks · 13h
Sussex
We still have almshouses in the UK. They were generally set up by individuals and
organisations, in the belief that they were doing their Christian duty to give alms to the
poor and needy
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wherearemyfeet · 23h
Cambridgeshire
As per the article, the teacher misheard the boy to be saying "give arms".
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AnselaJonla · 22h
Derbyshire
And at primary school, teachers generally handle all subjects (except swimming, if
offered), so the teacher has no excuse for not knowing what alms are and that they're
a part of the Muslim beliefs, albeit under a different name.
Perhaps the kid's mistake was westernising his language.
jj198hands · 23h
the teacher misheard the boy to be saying "give arms"
Pretty poor excuse, 'give alms' is a pretty popular phrase, 'give arms' less so.
wherearemyfeet · 22h
  Search
Cambridgeshire     Free 
'give alms' is a pretty popular phrase
I have literally never heard anyone say that in my entire life.
carnizzle · 14h
alms for an ex leper?
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strolls · 19h
There was a whole street of almshouses in the town where I went to school.
It's also a thing in christianity, and I can easily find multiple hymns mentioning
the giving of alms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse#Gallery
https://www.hymnlyrics.org/newlyrics_l/lord_accept_the_alms_we_offer.ph
p
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jj198hands · 22h
Its one of the pilars of Islam, you would expect a teacher to know it.
Vladimir_Chrootin · 8h
It's also fundamental to Christianity and the history of the UK, I would
expect an adult to know it even if they weren't a teacher.
bobby_zamora · 23h
Not sure that many 11 year olds no what alms are tbf.
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ainbheartach OP · 23h
The boy’s father says his son is involved with charity work such as helping
him pack food parcels at the local interfaith food bank. He added that he
often stayed behind after school to help his teacher clear up the classroom.
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bobby_zamora · 23h
 
I'm not  expect
saying he didn't say it, just that I wouldn't
Search  many
11Free
year olds 
to know the word.
Hazzeh_Bee · 11h
But you would expect a teacher to know what it means and not report a
child be because they couldn't put two and two together.
StorageThrwAway · 8h
And how many 11 year olds would know "arms" to mean "weapons"?
Ok.
Second time tonight to apologise for taking a comment in the wrong

way. Apology.
bobby_zamora · 22h
No worries.
aa9991 · 23h
And how many 11 year olds would call weapons "arms"?
CranberryMallet · 8h
Probably more than would call charity "alms", no?
genji_of_weed · 8h
Yes the number of children trying to foment an uprising these days is

absurd, kudos to the teachers for handling it so well.
CranberryMallet · 4h
Yeah, I've never heard a kid talk about guns either...
Elderflowerspritz · 22h
I did, but I was a voracious reader and I'm pretty sure I knew by age 7 what
alms were as my parents emphasised charity a lot.
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jj198hands · 23h · edited 22h
Well they don't explicity say he is a muslim but they mention its similarity to
other cases involving muslims so I would think he probably was.
edit: aparently it does.

AnselaJonla · 22h
Derbyshire
Says he attends mosque, so that's a pretty big indicator.
jj198hands · 22h
Ah OK, I missed that bit.
Beorma · 9h
Brum
Maybe he likes the decor.
RobertTheSpruce · 21h
I'm 38 and this is my first time seeing the word.

Bananasonfire · 21h
England
Did you never watch Monty Python's Life of Brian?
"Alms for an ex-leper!"
Yes... but I thought he was asking for arms since his would have fallen off
being a leper in a comedy film, and I didn't really get it.
frillytotes · 20h
That's brave of you to admit to an embarrassing level of ignorance.
lostparis · 12h
Most of us will have a glaring level of ignorance about something. I'm

sure you are included.
I'm not some weirdo that gets off on pretending to be clever on tinternet.
ChefExcellence · 9h
Auld Reekie
Guess you know every word in the English language then, that's cool.
Naebody take this guy on at Scrabble.
rehgaraf · 7h
Better Than Cornwall
https://xkcd.com/1053/
ZakalweTheForgetful · 22h
Thats quite sad for a Christian country

Auld Reekie
The two sound pretty similar in an English accent, so I can see why the mix-up
would happen. The first time I remember hearing "alms" was the "alms for an ex-
leper" scene in Life of Brian, and I didn't get it because I thought he was saying
"arms".
Still, though, reporting a radicalisation risk based on that is a bit much. Ask the boy
to clarify what he means. Speak to the parents, maybe. Unless it's something
severe and explicit, making a Prevent referral from hearing a single phrase is daft.
jj198hands · 8h
 The
 two sound pretty similar in an English
Search accent,
so I
can seewhy the mix- 
Free
up would happen.
Occam's razor would tell you its more likely an 11 year old Muslim would say
'give alms to the oppressed / poor' as its one of the five pillars of Islam than
'give arms to the oppressed / poor' as its not a popular phrase here nor
something we hear from Islamic terrorists never mind the corner stone of the
boy's religion.

Auld Reekie
Well, sure, but honest mistakes happen. Teachers haven't been having an
easy time of it, and people don't think straight when they're stressed. That's
why, as I said, a 30-second chat with the boy to clarify what he meant should
have happened before jumping straight to reporting him as a radicalisation
risk.
jj198hands · 8h · edited 8h
Oh totally, and I agree the mistake was not mishearing it but labelling
the boy as a risk, but this is quite a serious issue, I would be surprised if
the details of this incident had not got out to the rest of the school /
other schools in the area and the kid was already being bullied (& will
continue to be bullied for years) as a result.
HardlyAnyGravitas · 8h
The two sound pretty similar in an English accent
Identical - the words are pronounced exactly the same (unless you make a
conscious effort to pronounce the 'l', perhaps to avoid confusion like this).

rehgaraf · 7h
Better Than Cornwall
For me "alms" is further back in the mouth, almost glottal. I can feel the
difference, but I'm not sure if you'd notice it listening, unless I was saying
them side by side.
Also, arms, alms, arms, alms, semantic satiation incoming...
jj198hands · 23h
Isn't giving to the poor - aka alms - actually required in Islam

Yes its one of the five pillars (generally agreed to be about 2.5% of one's income)
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FiftyPencePeace · 23h
The tith would be the same in Christianity but I’m not sure of the percentage.
EiToVai · 21h
A tithe is a tenth.
currydemon · 20h
Staffordshire né Yorkshire
A tithe is a tenth
I actually never realised a tithe meant a tenth but knowing that makes the
comment you replied to beautiful.
tithes to the church
passinghere · 18h
Somerset
It's also an older, but common phrase in Christianity and it's been well used the UK
throughout well over a 1,000 years of our history
Giving alms to the poor, Almshouse etc etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse
Captainirishy · 23h
They have to give at least 2.5% of their income, its called zakat
The_Great_Angel · 23h

borg88 · 10h
Buckinghamshire
Doesn't really matter which he said. Giving weapons to the oppressed, or giving money to
 are
the poor, they both
Search
dangerous ideas that have no placein modern
   Free
Britain. 
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PelagicSojourner · 14h
Teacher needs to be investigated for racial and religious bias. See how they like being
investigated for anything they have said and have their comments interpreted in the least
flattering light possible. The whole Prevent scheme and having teachers turn state
informants is the kind of deeply troubling and borderline fascist policy that only a Tory
government would dream up. Shame on anyone in a position of dealing with young people
for complying.
Wadi_Ajran · 7h
I agree that the teacher needs to be sanctioned or something, but investing people for
'bias' is a whole other can of worms.
As someone who has gone through "Prevent training" and "subconscious bias training",
they're both Orwellian.
Prevent was instituted by a Labour government, by the way.

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28/06/2021 Boy, 11, referred to Prevent for wanting to give ‘alms to the oppressed’ : unitedkingdom

Posts Regional Subs Advice Subs

Posted by u/ainbheartach 1 day ago

Boy, 11, referred to Prevent for wanting to give ‘alms

 106 Comments  Award  Share  88% Upvoted

What are your thoughts?

View discussions in 10 other communities

Stupid boy, the British way is to sell arms to the oppressors.

 104   Reply Share 

Which is what they say in Robin Hood, lol

8  Reply Share 

Perhaps the kid's mistake was westernising his language.

the teacher misheard the boy to be saying "give arms"

I have literally never heard anyone say that in my entire life.

alms for an ex leper?

7  Reply Share 

Second time tonight to apologise for taking a comment in the wrong

And how many 11 year olds would call weapons "arms"?

Probably more than would call charity "alms", no?

Yes the number of children trying to foment an uprising these days is

Yeah, I've never heard a kid talk about guns either...

jj198hands · 23h · edited 22h

edit: aparently it does.

7  Reply Share 

Says he attends mosque, so that's a pretty big indicator.

Ah OK, I missed that bit.

Maybe he likes the decor.

I'm 38 and this is my first time seeing the word.

5  Reply Share 

Did you never watch Monty Python's Life of Brian?

"Alms for an ex-leper!"

That's brave of you to admit to an embarrassing level of ignorance.

Most of us will have a glaring level of ignorance about something. I'm

Thats quite sad for a Christian country

3  Reply Share 

2  Reply Share 

The two sound pretty similar in an English accent

1  Reply Share 

Also, arms, alms, arms, alms, semantic satiation incoming...

Isn't giving to the poor - aka alms - actually required in Islam

8  Reply Share 

7  Reply Share 

tithes to the church

Giving alms to the poor, Almshouse etc etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse

9  Reply Share 

4  Reply Share 

Prevent was instituted by a Labour government, by the way.

0  Reply Share 

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