alexandra pisarniki

amaRam, am samyaroSi
 Alejandra Pizarnik
EN ESTA NOCHE, EN ESTE MUNDO
Poemas
traducido por
Irakli Qolbaia

gamomcemeli: daTo barbaqaZe

winamdebare gamocema meore wignia, romelic

finansurad uzrunvelyofilia poeziis mTarg-
mnelebisTvis vaxuSti kotetiSvilis saxelobis
premias TandarTuli im Tanxis (700,00 lari) na-
wiliT, romelic daTo barbaqaZes 2018 wels ga-
daeca literaturul periodikaSi dabeWdili
poeziis Targmanis nominaciaSi da piradi miz-
nebisTvis romliT sargeblobazec man sajar-
od Tqva uari. winamdebare wignis sastambo Rir-
ebulebam, pirveli wignis (robert keli, safos-
to baraTebi qvesknelidan, mTargmneli irakli
yolbaia) sastambo Rirebulebis msgavsad, Sead-
gina 220,00 lari. darCenili 260,00 lari moxmar-
deba kidev erTi Targmnili wignis gamocemas.

pirveli gamocema-aqcia

gamomcemloba universali
Tbilisi 2019, dekemberi

ISBN
alexandra pisarniki

amaRam, am samyaroSi

leqsebi. interviu

espanuridan Targmna
da winasityva daurTo
irakli yolbaiam
4
 alqimia da sinesTezia
(prozauli oda mis simamaces)

raRac xnis win, alexandra pisarnikis sru-

li poeturi korpusis (romelic, miuxeda-
vad poetis TviTmkvlelobisa 36 wlis asak-
Si, 400-amde gverds moicavs, es ki mxolod
erTi nawilia misi Semoqmedebisa) furcv-
lilas, xelaxla Semomxvda erTi misi leq-
si, wignidan "musikalur samoTxe" (1971),
romelsac "maldororis simRerebis egzem-
plarSi" hqvia [rogorc Cans, metaforulad
mainc, es mokle prozauli fragmenti
lotreamonis wignis mindvrebze daiwera].
yovelTvis mizidavda imis warmodgena,
rom erTi poeti meore poetis wignis Tavis
kuTvnil egzemplarSi wers sakuTar leqss
(da, garkveulwilad, gana yvela poeti amas
ar Svreba?). rogorc viciT, magaliTad, mar-
io santiago papaskiaros sCveoda, TiTqmis
yovelTvis sxvaTa wignebis mindvrebze sa-
kuTari leqsebis wera; an sulac Tavad te-
qstze gadawera, da amiT, albaT, erTgvari

5
palimpsestis Seqmna, rogorc - is figura
jerom roTenbergis leqsSi "poetebis sa-
moTxe", romelic "wigns iRebs Tarodan da
zed awers teqstiT savse gverds". da mainc,
amis gaTvaliswinebiTac ki, yoveldRe ar
xdeba, rom Sens or sayvarel poets Soris
gabmul dialogs gadaawydebi.
kidev ufro mimizida im azrma, rom - Tum-
ca SesaZloa, es nakleb aSkara iyos - Cems
mier xsenebuli dialogi kvlav gvaxsenebs,
Tu ra labirinTia sruliad amerikaTa poez-
iebi, Tuki gaviTvaliswinebT, rom isidor
dukasi (lotreamoni) montevideodan iyo,
pisarniki ki - buenos airesidan.
magram es mimarTeba CemTvis metad Sors
midis, vidre - tvinis axirebuli savarjiSo
geopoetikaSi: saqme isaa, rom alexandra pi-
sarniki, romelic argentinaSi daibada 1936
wels, ebraeli emigrantebis ojaxSi, da ro-
melmac, isidor dukasiviT, poeturi for-
mirebis wlebi parizSi gaatara, umTavresad
swored im tradiciis gamgrZelebeli da
Semnaxvelia, romelic srulebiT ar iyo
globaluri poeturi praqtikis epicentr-
Si 1960-70-ian wlebSi, rodesac konceptu-
alizmma da formalurma eqsperimental-
izmma Zireulad moicva poeturi avan-gar-

6
di. xolo pisarniki ekuTvnis tradicias,
romelic originaluria, amdenad yovelT-
vis arsebobda da yovelTvis, met-nakle-
bad, mijnaze. es is "mxilveluri" (voyant -
rembo) Tu "wyeuli" (maudit - verleni) poezi-
is xazia, romelic did da uwyvet qvedine-
bad gasdevs poetur aqts arqauli zepir-
sityvierebidan radikalur surrealizmam-
de (vgulisxmob, vTqvaT: arto da ara des-
nosi an eluari) - cxadia, rembos, lotrea-
monis da sxvaTa gavliT. am tradiciis Sem-
naxavi da macocxlebeli poetis pozicias
erTi arsobrivi sirTule gansazRvravs:
misTvis gardauvalia am xazis marad xelax-
ali radikalizacia; magaliTad, Tanamed-
rove poets mouwevda, waekiTxa bodleri da
Seecno mTeli misi radikalizmi, imis nacv-
lad, rom mieRo igi arsebuli akademiuri
Tu literaturuli wakiTxvebis nayofad.
da amasTan, ar unda gvegonos, rom vizion-
eri poeti ramenairi "kurTxeuli veluria";
misTvis poezia yvelaze saSiSi, yvelaze se-
riozuli TamaSia, da am TamaSis kabalisti-
ka sakralur zrunvas moiTxovs misgan. am-
denad, ra gasakviria, rom Tavad pisarnikma
moaxdina sakiTxis (CemTvis) sanimuSo Se-
jameba, rodesac dawera:

7
 "holderlinis mtkiceba, rom "poezia
saSiSi TamaSia", ramdenime cnobil msxver-
plSewirvaSi hpovebs eqvivalents, esenia:
bodleris tanjva, nervalis TviTmkvle-
loba, rembos naadrevi dadumeba, lotrea-
monis idumali da efemeruli yofna, artos
cxovreba da Semoqmedeba...
es poetebi, da kidev ramdenime sxva, im-
iT arian erTurTTan dakavSirebuli, rom
gaaqarwyles - anda scades gaeqarwylebin-
aT, - manZili, romliTac sazogadoeba aSo-
rebs xelovnebas da cxovrebas".
pisarnikma, cxadia, zustad icis, rom am
msxverplSewirvaTa ricxvs misi cxovrebac
miekuTvneba. da iseve, rogorc artom - ro-
melsac is Targmnida - manac Seqmna unika-
luri Semoqmedeba, romelSic ara mxolod
poeziasa da prozas Sorisaa waSlili sabo-
loo zRvari, ara marto sxeulisa da goneb-
is aqtivobebs, cxovrebasa da xelovnebas
Soris, aramed, xSirad, da unikalurad, poe-
ziasa da poetikas Soris: poeturi aqti da
am aqtis TviT-refleqsia Tanadroulad
mimdinareobs, erT formatSi. pisarnikis
mTeli mowifuli Semoqmedeba, garkveul-
wilad, aris "ars poetica", misi yvelaze in-
timuri leqsebi, imave dros, poeturi pro-

8
cesis ganazrebebia. araferia aq uCveulo:
aseTia wesi TamaSisa, romelsac pisarniki
sakuTari kanisa da sisxlis fasad TamaSobs.
poeziis guli carielia da Tavad poezia
iqceva am armyofi gulis gamoxatulebad.
poets SeuZlia, inatros:
"merCivna, bluzi memRera nebismier si-
garetis boliT gabuRul patara barSi, vi-
dre Cemi cxovrebis Rameebi SeSlili qaliv-
iT enis kawvraSi metarebina”.
garda uSualo tkivilisa, mniSvnelova-
nia kawvris fenomenic, radgan pisarniki
tvifravs cariel furcels, mas, rogorc
qvas, aSorebs zedmets. da leqsi, TandaTa-
nobiT, ufro da ufro minimaluri xdeba,
sanam bolos aRarc aris mTlad leqsi. pis-
arnikis pirveli sami krebuli (dawerili 20-
23 wlis asakSi) met-naklebad "sacnaur"
verlibrebs moicavs; xolo misi unikaluri
poezia srulqmnil formas misi mexuTe
krebuliT aRwevs (1965 wels - simptomuri
saTauriT "Sromebi da Rameebi" - antikur
hesiodur didaqtikur formulas radikal-
izebuli saxe eZleva, wyeul poetTa kompa-
niisTvis); da am momentidan moyolebuli,
misi leqsi fragments hgavs, natexs, xan si-
carieles, xan mcire agurs, xan haikus, xanac

9
dRiuris wyvetil Canawers. am momentidan
misi xma srulebiT unikaluria, leqsi, Tavi-
si simciriT da formaluri simartiviT, ga-
usaZlisad rTuli xdeba. mgonia, rom pisar-
nikis poeziis mTavari Tviseba swored esaa:
Znelia mas Tvali gausworo, Zneli - SeCer-
de am sityvebze, am striqonebze.
Tuki sxva mediumSi pisarnikis leqss hyavs
axlobeli, vfiqrob yvelaze metad es lu-
Cio fontanas daserili tiloebia.
"Sromebsa da Rameebs" mosdevs poetis
ori Sedevri, romlebic misi Semoqmedebis
gulad mesaxeba: "sigiJis qvis gamoxda" da
"musikaluri jojoxeTi" - saTaurebi lako-
nuri mWevrmetyvelebiT gamokveTen poezi-
is mxilvelur programas. alqimia da
sinesTezia: rembos soneti, xmovnebi.
sakuTar dRiurSi is wers:
"rac maSinebs, artosTan Cemi msgavsebaa.
vgulisxmob Cveneul WrilobaTa msagvse-
bas”.
ori Sedevri, romelic vaxsene, krebu-
lebi araa, aramed - axali tipis poemebi. Tu-
ki marTlac hgavs es poezia dRiuris for-
mats, iqneb - imis gamo, rom xelovnebasa da
cxovrebas Soris zRvari swored am for-
matma unda gaaqros: dRiurad werili poe-
zia, rogorc epikuri kompoziciis sarCuli.

10
 mkiTxveli yuradRebas miaqcevs motiv-
Ta, saxeTa gameorebebs, romlebic, wlidan
wlamde, leqsebs (xandaxan tavtologiur-
ad?) akavSirebs erTmaneTTan. vfiqrob,
pisarnikis poetikis am (da sxva, xsenebul)
Taviseburebas zedmiwevniT gamoxatavs mi-
sive sityvebi:
poemis
Suaguli
sxva leqsia
Suagulis Suaguli
umyofobaa
"musikaluri jojoxeTi" rom misi uka-
naskneli krebuli ar yofiliyo, iqneb pis-
arniks daewera kidec krebuli "dRiurebi
da meRamurebi" (miTumetes, Tu yurs davu-
gdebT, mis sikvdilisSemdgom gamocemul
leqsebSi, zrdad da gulismomkvlel pir-
quS komedias, romlis badalic mxolod ar-
tosa Tu beketis xmebSi meguleba).
da "sigiJis qvis gamoxda" iseTive mniS-
vnelobis dokumentia sigiJis Sesaxeb, rog-
orc - artos rodezis periodis poezia. mi-
zani erTia: poeziam unda amoavsos es "naTe-
savi Wriloba", romelic adamians cxovreb-
isgan aSorebs. poezia unda dagexmaros -
icxovro, cxovrebas daukavSirde, Seerwya
mas.

11
 magram (misi dRiuridan):
"14 ianvari, 1961, parizi. rembo mesizm-
ra / literaturiT / me davkarge cxovreba."
1972 wlis 25 dekembers pisarnikma seko-
nalis zedmeti doziT daasrula sakuTari
sicocxle. am bolo wams, am sulis RameSi,
ori Seurigebeli da, poezia da cxovreba,
iqneb, marTlac erwymis erTmaneTs - poet-
is bolo aqti poezia iyo: mis samuSao oTax-
Si dafaze es ewera carciT, misi bolo leq-
si:
muStebs iqneven Crdilebi
mkvdarTa
Savi Crdilebi

araferi muStebi mxolod

da tirili gaisma

araferi muStebi mxolod

irakli yolbaia

12
 wignidan Sromebi da Rameebi

leqsi

Sen irCev Wrilobis adgils

sadac Cvens mdumarebas vlaparakobT.
Sen aqcev Cems cxovrebas
am uspetakes dResaswaulad.

13
 gamocxadebebi

RamiT, Sens gverdiT,

sityvebi gasaRebdebian.
sikvdilis survili xdeba mefe.

dae Seni sxeuli yovelTvis iyos

gamocxadebaTa Zvirfasi sivrce.

14
 Sens dabadebis dReze

miiRe es saxe Cemi, mdumare, mavedrebeli.

miiRe es siyvaruli romelsac viTxov.
miiRe es nawili CemSi romelic Sen xar.

15
 ngrevebi

. . .amborebaSi da ara mizezebSi

kevedo

sityvebiT dammale am brZolisgan

da Caaqvre Cemi elementuri sxeulis
mZvinvareba.

16
 sayvarlebi

yvavili
Ramis Soriaxlos
Cemi munji sxeuli
eSleba
cvris faqiz myisierebas

17
 romelic anaTebs

rodesac miyureb,
Cemi Tvalebi gasaRebebia,
kedeli inaxavs saidumloebs,
Cems SiSs - sityvebi, leqsebi.
mxolod Sen aqcev Cems mexsierebas
aRfrTovanebul mogzaurad,
maradmwvel cecxlad.

18
 aRiareba

Sen aqcie mTrTolvare iasamanTa dumili

Cems tragediad qarisa gulSi.
Sen aqcie Cemi cxovreba sabavSvo zRaprad
sadac daxrCoba da sikvdili
winapirobebia sanukvari
dResaswaulebisTvis.

19
 Sexvedra

viRac siCumeSi Sevida da mimatova.

axla martooba araa marto.
Sen RamesaviT laparakob.
wyurviliviT mevlinebi.

20
 xangrZlivoba

aqedan bneli RamiT wavida

da mis sxeuls unda ecxovra am oTaxSi
romelSic qviTini, saxifaTo nabijebi,
imis, vinc ar modis, magram aqaa misi
myofoba
gamobmuli am sawolze romelSic qviTini
radgan saxe iZaxis,
sibneles morgebuli,
Zvirfasi qva.

21
 Seni xma

Casafrebuli Cems nawerebSi

Sen mReri Cems leqsSi.
me tyve Seni tkbili xmis
aRbeWdilis Cems mexsierebaSi.
Citi daJinebiT mfreni.
haeri aryofniT tatuirebuli.
saaTs dro ucems CemTan erTad,
rom arasdros gaviRviZo.

22
 daviwyeba

Ramis meore napiras

siyvaruli SesaZlebelia

- wamiyvane iq -

wamiyvane im tkbil raobebSi

Sens mexsierebaSi rom kvdebian yoveldRe

23
 dakarguli nabijebi

sanam naTeli idga

Cems enaSi siyvarulidan
ramdenime nabijSi rom iSva.

Rame Ria. Rame Tanamyofi.

24
 SenTvis saxelis darqmeva

ara leqsi Sens aryofnaze,

naxati mxolod, naprali kedelSi,
raRaca qarSi, mware gemo.

25
 gamomSvidobeba

sakuTar naTels klavs migdebuli

cecxli.
galobas imaRlebs Seyvarebuli Citi.
amdeni xarbi arseba Cems mdumarebaSi
da es cicqna wvima romelic Tan msdevs.

26
 Sromebi da Rameebi

raTa amomecno wyurvilSi Cemi emblema

rom aReniSna ucalo sizmari
metad rom aRar mekveba Tavi siyvaruliT

me viyavi mTeli Sewiruloba

mglis wminda xetiali
tyeSi
sxeulebis Rames

raTa meTqva umwiklo sityva

27
 misi aryofnis mniSvneloba

Tuki vbedav
viyuro da vilaparako
imis gamoa rom misi Crdili
ase faqizad gamoeba
Cems saxels
Sors aqedan
wvimaSi
Cems mogonebaSi
misi saxisTvis
romelic iwvis Cems poemaSi
lamazad fantavs
Zvirfasi gamqrali saxis
surnels

28
 mwvane samoTxe

ucxo romelic viyavi

rodesac Soreuli sinaTleebis mezoblad
Sevagrove metismetad wminda sityvebi
axal siCumeTa Sesaqmnelad

29
 bavSvoba

Jami rodesac balaxi izrdeba

cxenis mexsierebaSi.
qari warmoTqvams ubiwo sityvebs
SroSanebis sapativcemulod,
da viRac abijebs sikvdilSi
Tvalgaxelili
rogorc alisi ukve nanaxis mxareSi.

30
 manam

musikaluri tye

Citebi damaxatavdnen Tvalebze

cicqna galiebs

31
 ganTiadi

SiSvels mesizmreba mziani Rame.

me viweqi cxoveli dReebis manZilze.
qarma da wvimam wamSales
rogorc cecxls waSlidnen, anda leqss
dawerils kedelze.

32
 saaTi

erTi cicqna qalbatoni

romelic Citis gulSi cxovrobs
mwuxris Jams gadis erTi marcvlis
warmosaTqmelad
ar

33
 sakuTari Tavisgan gasaqcev adgilas

sivrce. xangrZlivi molodini.

aravin modis. es landi.

mieci rasac yvela aZlevs:

pirquSi mniSvnelobebi,
gaukvirveblebi.

sivrce. mwveli mdumareba.

ras aZleven Crdilebi erTmaneTs?

34
 fuWi sazRvrebi

adgili
ar miTqvams sivrce
me imaze vlaparakob
rac
vlaparakob imaze rac ar aris
vlaparakob imaze rac vici

ara droze
aramed yvela wamze
ara siyvarulze
ara
ki
ara

aryofnis adgili
beCavi kavSiris Zafi

35
 arsebulis guli

nu gadamcem,
unaRvlianeso SuaRameo,
SuadRis usufTao siTeTres

36
 didi sityvebi

jer araa axla

axla arasdrosaa

jer axla araa

axla da marad
arasdros aris

37
 mdumarebebi

sikvdili marad Cems gverdiT.

vusmen rasac meubneba.
mxolod sakuTari xma mesmis.

38
 siCumes moviTxov

Tumca gviania, Ramea,

da Sen ar ZalgiZs.

imRere ise TiTqos araferi xdebodes.

araferi xdeba.

39
 wignidan sigiJis qvis gamoxda

Ramis momRerali qali

eZRvneba olga oroskos

Joe, macht die Musik von damals nacht...*

is, romelic sakuTari lurji kabisgan mokv-

da, mReris. is mReris, sikvdiliT naRebi,
umReris sakuTari Trobis mzes. misi simR-
eris SigniT aris lurji kaba, aris TeTri
cxeni, aris mwvane guli, tatuirebuli mi-
sive momkvdari gulis cemaTa eqoebiT. gaec-
no ra yovelgvar kargvas, is mReris mawan-
wala gogonas gverdiT, romelic Tavadaa:
misi Tilisma iRblisaTvis. da miuxedavad
mwvane nislisa tuCebze da nacrisferi si-
civisa TvalebSi, misi xma sanslavs siSores,
rom daRebula wyurvilsa da Wiqis maZiebel
xels Soris. is mReris.

* avtori mcdarad citirebs b. brextis striqons:

“Joe, mach die Musik von damals nach”.
40
 Tavbrusxveva,
anu sasrul rameTa ganazreba

ufoTlovdeba es iasamani.
sakuTari Tavidan vardeba
da sakuTar arqaul Crdils efareba.
momklavs aseTi rameebi.

41
 yru farani

umyofni bolaven da Rame sqelia. Rame

mkvdris quTuToTa feria.
mTeli Ramis manZilze Rames vqmni. mTe-
li Rame vwer. sityva-sityva vwer Rames.

42
 privilegia

I.

dakargulia ukve saxeli, romelic merqva,

misi saxe gars damtrialebs
viTarca wylis xmebi RamiT,
xmebi wyalSi vardnili wylisa.
da ukanaskneli gadarCenili misi Rimilia
da ara - Cemi mexsiereba.

II.

Sen, yvelaze lamazo,

imaTi RamiT vinc wavida
o, nasurvebo,
ubolooa Seni daubruneba,
Crdilo, Sen, vidre dReTagan dRemde.

43
 Rame gulisa

Semodgomao kedlis silurjeSi: nugeSi

eci patara mkvdar gogonebs.

yovelRam, erTi kivilis manZilze,

xelaxali Crdili mecxadeba. marto
cekvavs, is, calkeuli idumali. me
viziareb mis metad norCi cxovelis SiSs
nadirobis pirveli Ramisas.

44
 zamTris zRapari

qaris naTeli atans fiWvebSi; mesmis ki

mokaSkaSe sevdis es niSnebi?

CamomxrCvali qanaobs iasamnis jvriT Se-

mkul xeze.

sanam ar SeZlebs, dausxltes Cems sizm-

ars da Cems oTaxSi SemoaRwios, fanjridan,
SuaRamis qarTan SeTqmuli.

45
 natexebi mdumarebis samarTavad

I.

enis Zalebi martosuli qalbatonebi ar-

ian, upatronod mitovebulni, romlebic
Cemi xmis gavliT mRerian, xmis, romelic
Soridan mesmis. da moSorebiT, Sav qviSaSi,
wevs gogona, winaparTa musikiT damZimebu-
li. sadaa WeSmariti sikvdili? me visurve
naTeli CemTvis, sinaTle Cemi usinaTlob-
isTvis. Taigulebi ukvdebian mexsierebas.
mwoliare gogona sakuTari mglis niRbiT
ibudebs CemSi. is, romelsac meti aRar SeeZ-
lo da alebs ivedreboda da romelsac Cven
cecxli wavukideT.

II.

rodesac enis saxls Weri exdeba da si-

tyvebi aRar guSagoben, me vmetyveleb.
qalebi wiTlebSi ikargebian sakuTari
niRbebis ukan, magram dabrundebian, raTa
yvavilebs Soris iqviTinon.

46
 sikvdili munji araa. mesmis, rogor beW-
davs mgloviareTa simRera mdumarebis nap-
ralebs. vusmen da Seni utkbesi tirili fu-
rCqnis Cems rux mdumarebas.

III.

sikvdilma aRudgina mdumarebas misi mo-

majadoebeli prestiJi. da me ar vityvi Cems
leqss da vityvi mas. Tundac am leqss (aq,
axla) ar hqondes mniSvneloba, arc bedi.

47
 sizmari romelSic dumili oqroa

zamTris ZaRli miRrRnida Rimils. xid-

ze. SiSveli viyavi da yvavilebiani qudi me-
xura da davaTrevdi Cems agreTve SiSvel
gvams, romelsac gamxmaryvavilebiani qudi
exura.
mravali siyvaruli mqonda, vTqvi CemT-
vis, magram maTgan yvelaze mSvenieri Cemi
sarkeebisadmi siyvaruli iyo.

48
 Tête de Jeune Fille (odilon redoni)

andre pier de mandiargs

musikis es wvima
mdumarebis es wlebi
gavides Rame
Cemi sxeuli metad aRarasdros
iqneba nacnobi

49
 musikis dapirebebi

TeTri kedlis ukan, cisartyelis nair-

saxeoba. Tojina, Tavis galiaSi, Semodgo-
mas qmnis. es msxverplSewirvaTa gamoRvi-
Zebaa. axalqmnili baRi, qviTini musikis uk-
an. da dae marad gaismas, raTa aravin daesw-
ros Sobis Zvrebs, anda msxverplSewirvis
baZvas, saubars qalisa, romelic me var, mib-
muli am mdumares, romelic, agreTve, me
var. da dae aRarra darCes Cemgan garda six-
arulisa imis, vinc iTxova Sesvla da Seu-
Sves. musikaa, sikvdili, romlis warmoTq-
mac vinatre, tyis ferTa msagvsad nairsaxa
RameobiT.

50
 uwyvetoba

ar uwodo sagnebs TavianTi saxelebi. sa-

gnebs dakbiluli kideebi aqvT, mdidruli
gamwvaneba. magram vin saubrobs TvalebiT sa-
vse oTaxSi. vin kbilobs qaRaldisgan qmni-
li piriT. momavali saxelebi, Crdilebi ni-
RbebiT. ganmkurne am sicarielisgan, vTqvi.
(naTels Tavi moswonda Cems wyvdiadSi. vi-
codi, ar iyo, rodesac Cemi naTqvami momes-
ma: me var.) ganmkurne, vTqvi me.

51
 sarkis bilikebi

I.

da, rac mTavaria, ucodvelad iyuro. ise,

TiTqos araferi xdebodes, rac namdvilad
asea.

II.

magram Sen msurs, giyuro manam, sanam Seni

saxe ar gaecleba Cems SiSs, rogorc Citi
Ramis basr pirs.

III.

rogorc vardisferi carcis gogona metis-

metad Zvel kedelze, wvimis mier uecrad
waSlili.

IV.

rogorc rodesac yvavili iSleba da

amJRavnebs guls romelic ar aqvs.

52
 V.

Cemi sxeulisa da xmis yoveli Jesti, raTa

ZRvnad maqcion, totad, qarma rom miatova
zRurblze.

VI.

dafare Seni saxis mexsiereba imis niRbiT

vinc iqnebi da ganafrTxe gogona romelic
iyavi.

VII.

orives Rame nisliT gaifanta. es civi sakve-

bis Jamia.

VIII.

da wyurvili, Cemi mexsiereba wyurvilisaa,

me dabla, fskerze, WaSi, me vsvamdi, maxs-
ovs.

IX.

daece, rogorc daWrili cxoveli, iq, sadac

53
gamocxadebebis adgili iyo.

X.

rogorc is, visac araferi surs. sul ara-

feri. piramokerili. quTuToebamokerili.
sakuTari Tavi damaviwyda. SigniT qaria.
yvelaferi Carazuli da SigniT qari.

XI.

mdumarebis Sav mzeSi sityvebi mooqrulan.

XII.

magram mdumareba cxadia. amisTvis vwer.

marto var da vwer. ara, ar var marto. aris
aq viRac, vinc TrTis.

XIII.

romc vTqva mze da mTvare da varskvlavi,

vgulisxmob imaT, rac me memarTeba. da me
ra msurda?
msurda sruli siCume.

54
amisTvis vmetyveleb.

XIV.

Rames mglis ymuilis forma aqvs.

XV.

winaswar ganWvretil suraTSi dakargvis si-

ame. me wamovdeqi Cemi gvamidan, me wavedi
imis saZebnelad, vinc var. piligrimi Cemi
Tavisgan, gaveSure imisaken, romelsac qar-
pira mxareSi sZinavs.

XVI.

Cemi usasrulo dacema Cems usasrulo dace-

maSi, sadac aravin meloda, radgan rom Sev-
xede imas, vinc meloda, ver vixile verafe-
ri Cemi Tavis garda.

XVII.

raRac daeca mdumarebaSi. Cemi ukanaskne-

li sityva iyo me magram vigulisxme manaTo-
beli ganTiadi.
55
 XVIII.

yviTeli yvavilebi lurji miwis wres aTana-

varskvlavedeben. wyali, qariT savse, cax-
caxebs.

XIX.

dRis TvalismomWreloba, yviTeli Citebi

diliT. xeli sibneles naskvavs, xeli miaTr-
evs damxrCvali qalis Tmas, romelic ar
wyvets sarkeSi mimosvlas. sxeulis mex-
sierebasTan dasabruneblad, unda davub-
runde Cems mgloviare Zvlebs, unda gavi-
go, ras ambobs Cemi xma.

56
 wignidan musikaluri jojoxeTi

Cold in Hand Blues

da ra aris es ris Tqmasac apireb

mxolod raRacis Tqmas vapireb
da ra aris es ris qnasac apireb
enaSi vapireb damalvas
da ratom
meSinia

57
 qvakuTxedi

ar SemiZlia, Cemi xmiT vilaparako, mxo-

lod - Cemi xmebiT.

misi Tvalebi taZris Sesasvleli iyo,

CemTvis, moxetialisTvis, romelsac uy-
vars da kvdeba. da vimRerebdi sanam Rames
ar Severwymodi, sanam ar ganviqmnebodi,
SiSveli, taZris SesasvlelTan.

simRera, romelsac vkveT, rogorc gvi-

rabs.

Semawuxebeli myofobebi,
Jestebi figurebis, romlebic cocxlad
gvevlinebian im aqtiuri enis muSaobiT, maT
rom emowmeba,
niSnebi, uxsnar SiSebze rom migvaniSne-
ben.

saZirkvlebis vibracia, safuZvlebis

caxcaxi, wveTa da burRva,

58
 da vicodi sad binadrobs is, amdenad
sxva, romelic aris me, romelic icdis, ro-
dis movketav, raTa Semipyros da aSros da
burRos saZirkvlebi, safuZvlebi,
is, romelic mewinaaRmdegeba Cems Sig-
nidan, SeTqmuli, ixelTebs Cems veran mi-
was,

ara,
rame unda viRono,
ara,
ar unda viRono araferi,

raRac CemSi ar nebdeba ferflis Sadre-

vans, romelic Signidan mangrevs imiT, ro-
melic aris me, CemiT, romelic var is da ro-
melic var me, misgan eniT aRuwerlad gans-
xvavebuli.

imave mdumarebaSi (da ara TviT mdumare-

baSi) gadaylapo Rame, Rame usazRvro, CaZi-
ruli dakarguli nabijebis malulobaSi.

ar SemiZlia vilaparako arafris saTqme-

lad. amrigad vkargavT Cvens Tavebs, me da

59
leqsi, fuW mcdelobaSi, gadmovweroT mxu-
rvale kavSirebi.

sad mihyavs is am nawers? SavSi, unayofo-

Si, danawevrebulSi.

Tojinebi, gamoSignuli Cemi antikuri

Tojinis xelebiT, sufTa satenis povnis im-
edgacrueba (Seni mexsiereba, sufTa tra-
mali): mama, romelic, albaT, tiresiasi iyo,
mdinareSi tivtivebs. magram Sen, ratom mi-
eci neba, moekaliT, sanam Tovliani verx-
vebis ambebs usmendi?

me msurda, Cems Tojinas TiTebs SeeRwi-

aT gasaRebebSi. me ar msurda, Sevxebodi
klaviSebs, rogorc oboba. me CaZirva msur-
da, Tavis milursmvna, Tavis gamobma, ganam-
arxeba. klaviSebSi Sesvla msurda, raTa Se-
meRwia musikis SigniT raTa mqonoda samSob-
lo. magram musika iZvroda, qroda. mxolod
misamReris xelaxali wamowyebisas Rvivde-
boda CemSi imedi, rom warmoiqmneboda ra-
Rac matareblebis sadguris msgavsi, vgu-
lixmob: myari amosavali wertili, adgili-

60
dan, adgilisken, adgilTan kavSirSi, masTan
Serwymuli. magram misamReri metismetad
xanmokle iyo, imdenad, rom me ver SevZeli
sadguris aRmarTva, radgan ver meqneboda
erT sakmaod liandagsamcdar matarebelze
metis imedi, romelic mruddeboda da ibri-
ceboda. maSin mivatove musika da misi vera-
gobebi, radgan musika iyo mudam metisme-
tad maRla an metismetad dabla, magram ar-
asdros centrSi, ara Serwymisa da Seyris
adgilas. (Sen, romelic iyavi Cemi ucalo sa-
mSoblo, sadRa geZebo? iqneb am leqsSi, ro-
melsac vwer.)

erT Rames, cirkSi, aRmidga dakarguli

ena, im wams, rodesac mxedrebma, CiraRdne-
biT xelSi, mZvinvare wreze gaaWenes Tavi-
anTi Savi raSebi. Cems unetares sizmrebSic
ki ar iarsebebs angelozebis gundi, romel-
ic miawvdis Cems guls am mxurvale bgeraTa
msgavsebas, floqvebi rom gamoscemdnen
qviSebze.

(da miTxra: dawere; rameTu es sityvebi

sarwmunoa da Wermariti.)
61
 (kaci an qva an xea, vinc daiwyebs simRe-
ras...)

da es iyo saTuTad mTrTolvare Jruant-

eli (amas vambob, raTa vaswavlo imas, mcda-
rad rom moaTavsa CemSi Tavisi musikalu-
roba da ufro disonansurad TrTis, vidre
ucxo qveynis qviSebSi CiraRdniT waqezeb-
uli cxeni.)

iataks vekvrodi, saxels viZaxdi. mwam-

da, rom movkvdi da rom sikvdili saxelis
Tqma iyo, usasrulod.

es ar aris, iqneb, risi Tqmac msurs. es

Tqma da TviT-Tqma saamuri araa. ar ZalmiZs
Cemi xmiT laparaki, mxolod Cemi xmebiT. an
kidev es leqsi, SesaZloa, iyos maxe, morigi
dadgma.

rodesac gemma ritmi icvala da sastik

wylebze iwyo ryeva, me wamovdeqi rogorc
amazoni, romelsac mxolod Tavisi lurji
Tvalebi yofnis yalyze damdgari cxenis
dasamorCileblad (an iqneb mizezi misi lu-

62
rji Tvalebi ar iyo?) mwvane wyalo Cems sax-
eze, unda gsva, vidre Rame ar gaiReba. ver-
avin mixsnis, rameTu var uxilavi Cemive
TavisTvisac ki, romelsac veZaxi Seni xmiT.
sad var? baRSi.

ai, baRi.

63
 musikaluri jojoxeTi

mzeebiT mirtyamen

aq araferi arafers ewyvileba

da amdeni mkvdari cxoveliT Cemi mexsi-

erebis basri Zvlebis sasaflaoze

da amdeni yvavisebri monazvnebiT Cems

fexebs Soris saniskarteblad rom moiswra-
fian

manafleTebs am nawyvetTa raodenoba

usufTao gasaubreba

sasowarkveTili gandevna verbaluri ma-

teriidan

sakuTar TavTan ganTavisuflebuli

sakuTar TavSi wyalwaRebuli

64
 maldororis simRerebis egzemplarSi

Cemi kabis qveS iwvoda yvavilebis mde-

lo, mxiaruli, rogorc SuaRamis bavSvebi.

sinaTle uberavs Cems ZvlebSi, rodesac

vwer sityvas "miwa". sityva an myofoba, ro-
melsac keTilsurnelovani cxovelebi sde-
ven; sakuTari TaviviT sevdiani, TviTmkv-
lelobasaviT mSvenieri; is mifrinavs Cems
TavszemoT, rogorc mzeTa dinastia.

65
 makurnebeli sityva

imis imediT, rom ena miwidan amoTxris sam-

yaros, viRac umReris adgils, romelic
mdumarebaSi iZens saxes. mogvianebiT gairk-
veva, - is, rom sakuTar mZvinvarebas gamox-
atavs, ar niSnavs rom zRva arsebobs, anda
samyaro. iseve, rogorc sityva ambobs imas,
rasac ambobs da, amis miRma, raRac mets, ra-
Rac sxvas.

66
 uxilavisani

raTa sityvebma ar ikmaron, saWiroa, gul-

Si raRac mokvdes.

enis naTeli mfaravs, rogorc musika, un-

ugeSebeli ZaRlebis mier dafleTili su-
raTi, da zamTari mwvdeba, rogorc qali,
romelsac kedeli Seuyvarda.

zustad maSin, rodesac vimedovnebdi,

ukan movitovebdi imeds, moxda Seni dace-
ma CemSi. axla meti aRaraferi var, mxolod
es SigniT.

67
 wyalTa sibnele

vusmen wylis xmas Cems sizmarSi rom ecema.

sityvebi ecema rogorc wyali me vecemi. Ce-
mi Tvalebis formas vxatav Cems TvalebSi.
vcurav Cems wylebSi, Cems mdumarebebs vau-
wyeb Cems Tavs. mTeli Rame vimedovneb, rom
Cemi ena SeZlebs, forma momces. da vfiqrob
qarSi, romelic momdis, Cerdeba CemSi. mTe-
li Rame viare saxeludebeli wvimis qveS. me
momeca mdumareba savse formebiT da xil-
vebiT (ambob). da Sen garbixar, unugeSebe-
li, rogorc euli Citi qarSi.

68
 sruli danakargi

grZneulebani warmoiqmneba axali gulidan

leqsisa, romelic aravis miemarTeba. vme-
tyveleb xmiT, romelic xmis miRmaa da gam-
ovcem datirebis magiur bgerebs. lurjma
mzeram Semosa Cemi leqsi nimbiT. cxovre-
bao, Cemo cxovrebao, ra uyavi am cxovre-
bas Cemsas.

69
 poetis gardacvalebis mere
gamocemuli leqsebi

amaRam, am samyaroSi

eZRvneba marTa isabel moias

amaRam am samyaroSi
sityvebi sizmris bavSvobis sikvdilis
arasdros is risi Tqmac gsurda
mSobliuri ena kastrirebuli
ena Semecnebis organoa
marcxisa yoveli leqsis
sakuTari enisgan kastrirebuli
romelic xelaxla qmnis organoa
xelaxla Secnobis
magram ara mkvdreTiT aRdgomis
uaryofiTi formis sagnis
Cemi horizontis maldororisa Tavisi
ZaRliT
da araferia dapireba
Tqmadis sferoSi
romelic tyuils utoldeba

70
(yovelive rac Tqmadia aris tyuilic)
danarCeni mdumarebaa
oRond mdumareba ar arsebobs

ara
sityvebi
ar siyvaruloben
isini aramyofoben
Tu vityvi wyali davlev?
Tu vityvi puri SevWam?

amaRam am samyaroSi
gasaocari mdumareba es ama Ramis
sulis ambavi isaa rom Tavis Tavs ver
xedavs
gonebis ambavi isaa rom Tavis Tavs ver
xedavs
samSvinvelis ambavi isaa rom Tavis Tavs
ver xedavs
saidan modis es uxilaobaTa SeTqmuleba?
erTi sityvac ki ar ixileba

Crdilebi
mwebvare zRudeebi sigiJis
qvas rom malaven

71
Savi derefnebi
yvela maTgani maqvs gavlili
o rad ar dagvirCebodi sul odnav
metxans!

Cemi piri daWrilia

Cemi mxolobiTis pirveli piri

me ise vwer rogorc bnelSi momarjvebuli

dana
vwer ise rogorc vambob
sruli gulwrfeloba ganagrZobda
SeuZleblobas
o rad ar dagvirCebodi sul odnav
metxans!

sityvaTa CamoSla
enis sasaxlis mausaxlebeli
Semecneba fexebs Soris
ra mouxerxe seqsis niWs?
o Cemi mkvdrebi
vWame isini davixrCvi maTiT
metad aRar SemeZlo meti aRar SeZleba

daxSuli sityvebi

72
yvelaferi sxltis
bnel gaTxevadebaSi

da maldororis ZaRli
amaRam am samyaroSi
sadac yvelaferi SesaZlebelia
garda
leqsisa

me vmetyveleb
codniT rom saqme es araa
o damexmare davwero yvelaze arasaWiro
leqsi
is romelic gamousadegrobisTvisac
ki ver gamodgeba
damexmare davwero sityvebi
amaRam am samyaroSi

73
 mokle kantoebi

1.

aravin micnobs me Rames vmetyveleb

aravin micnobs Cems sxeuls vmetyveleb
aravin micnobs me wvimas vmetyveleb
aravin micnobs me mkvdrebs vmetyveleb

2.

sityvebi oden
bavSvobis
sikvdilis
sxeulTa Rameebis

3.

poemis
Suaguli
sxva leqsia
Suagulis Suaguli
umyofobaa

umyofobis SuagulSi

74
Cemi Crdilia Suaguli
leqsis Suagulis

4.

Citis Zvlebisgan damzadebuli Tojina

miuZRvnis keTilsurnelovan ZaRlebs
Cemive sityvebisa romlebic mibrundebian

5. Jans

Semodgomis
mxilvelTa
agonia

6.

napralebi kedlebSi
Savi grZneulebebi
gatyavebuli frazebi
sabediswero leqsebi

7.

naprals simReriT avseb.

sibneleSi damxrCvali qaliviT izrdebi.

75
o meti da meti simReriT fare es bzari, es
naprali, es naxeTqi.

8.

mkvdarTa SuadRes
princesaadgilumzeo
Wams narSavs
Wams xiwvebs

9.

Cemi ciskrisJams CaZinebulis simRera

marTla es iyo gana?

10.

is visac vuyvarvar iSorebs Cems

oreulebs,
aRebs
Rames, Cemo sxeulo,
Sen sizmarTa saxilvelad,
Cemo mzeo an siyvarulo

11.

o Tvalebi Seni
76
almodebuli Tvalebi

12. alen vermons

Cemi gonebis yvavebi

misi Zvirfasi sxeulis piras

Ramis diadi sicivea

siSave

vneba Cvens ufalTa

survilTa

13.

akviateba
bavSvuri Tqmuleba
naprali

mze
rogorc didi bneli cxoveli

me da meti araferi
saTqmeli araferi

77
 14.

raa es sivrce romladac viqceviT

akviateba
balRuri Tqmuleba

vidre ar dadgeba axali wesrigi

Cven trfobas ar vimRerebT
vidre ar dadgeba axali wesrigi

15.

gogona romelic nacrisfer qarebSi

mwvane qarebSi icdida

16.

sarkeebiT ilaparakebs
sibneliT ilaparakebs
CrdilebiT
arafriT

17. dianas

gvaswavle cxovrebisa

78
natifad
SevevedreT cicqna arsebebs
da mklavebi gavuSaleT
sxva sanapiros siyvarulisTvis

18.

narekli sityvebi romlebic

TviTmetyveleben
leqsebSi romlebic ar tivtiveben me
zRvadviriyebi
CemSi yovelive TviTiTqmis sakuTari
CrdiliT
da yoveli Crdili Tavisive oreuliT

19.

naRvliani musika
axal hangs ukravs
axali ramis Sesaqmnelad
axali ramis dasanaxad

79
 Canawerebi poeziaze

ra aris poeziis mniSvneloba dRevandel

samyaroSi?

1
#

Cven gvWirdeba adgili, sadac SeuZlebe-

li SesaZlebeli xdeba. swored leqsia adg-
ili, sadac SesaZleblis sazRvari arRvevs
kanonsa da wesrigs da riskze midis.

2
#

poets sxva mxridan moaqvs axali ambebi.

is akrZalulis despani Tu warmomadgene-
lia, radgan is aRgvZravs samyaros saocreb-
aTa - iseve, rogorc sigiJisa da sikvdilis -
konfrontaciisken.

poeziis moyvarulTa erTi cicqna saidum-

lo sazogadoebis miRma, yvelas eSinia imis
aRiareba, rom poeziasTan Sexvedras misi
80
ganTavisufleba SeuZlia. risgan ganTavis-
ufleba? magram esec yvelasTvis cnobilia.

(12 dekemberi)

mwerloba, romelic datvirTulia, savse

saSiSroebiTa da xifaTiT - gamomdinare mi-
sive mozRvavebuli gamWvirvaleobidan;
sruliad konkretuli; disproporciulad
materialuri, ramdenadac is avlens saxe-
xatebs, romlebic yvelaze Soreul, ucnob
da moulodnel Sinagan CrdilebSi iReben
saTaves.
mwerloba, romelic autanlad mkvrivia,
xrCobamde, magram mxolod da mxolod
"ZlivsSesamCnevi kavSirebisganaa" qmnili,
romelsac ZaluZs, ganapirobos, erTsa da
imave zedapirze, subieqtisa da obieqtis
umanko Tanaarseboba, da agreTve waSalos
Cveuli sazRvrebi mes, Sens, mas, Cvensa da
maT Soris. urTierTkavSirebi, metamorfo-
zebi.
Cemi tanjva gadmoscems suraTebs, rom-
lebsac "xmis qalwuli" qmnis meore mxares,
moelvare cialTa garemocvaSi. gadasvla,
81
romlis ganxorcielebac msurs daZabuli
sizustiT, romelic SemaZlebinebda, game-
wvrTna SemTxveviToba da aminazRaurebda
Cems srul damorCilebas "xmis qalwuli-
sadmi".
poeturi simarTlis mgznebare saWiroe-
ba. es xma iTxovs, rom mxilveluri Zala Ta-
nadroulad ganTavisufldes da SenarCun-
des, is moiTxovs warmoudgenel TavdaWer-
ilobas am Zalis mimarTvisas [da am saxe-xa-
tebis agebisas].
me ver vamCnev, vlaparakob poetur sru-
lyofaze, Tavisuflebaze, Tu siyvarulsa
da sikvdilze.

xuTSabaTi, 14 dekemberi, 1964

3
#

"Cemi xmis qalwuli" STagonebacaa da -

aracnobieric.

82
 ramdenime gasaRebi
alexandra pisarnikisTvis
(saubari marTa isabel moiasTan)

marTa isabel moia: Sens leqsebSi aris gar-

kveuli sityvebi, romlebic emblemurad
mimaCnia, da romlebic martosul, akrZa-
lul rameebad aqceven Sens leqsebs, bavS-
vuri vnebebis, poeziis, siyvarulis, sikv-
dilis msgavsebad. meTanxmebi, rom sityve-
bi baRi, tye, sityva, mdumareba, xetiali,
qari, gulistkivili da Rame erTdroulad
niSnebicaa da emblemebic?

alexandra pisarniki: vfiqrob, Cems leq-

sebSi aris sityvebi, romlebsac ganuwyvet-
liv vimeoreb, vimeoreb umowyalod da da-
undoblad: bavSvobis, SiSebis, sikvdilis,
sxeulTa Rameebis sityvebi. anda, ufro ko-
nkretulad, sityvebi, romlebsac Sens kiT-
xvaSi gamoyof, erTdroulad niSnebicaa da
emblemebic.

m. i. m.: daviwyoT, maS, yvelaze saamur sivr-

ceebSi SebijebiT: baRsa da tyeSi.
83
a. p.: CemTvis erT-erT yvelaze momajado-
ebel da momnusxvel frazas patara gogo-
na, alisi warmoTqvams saocrebaTa qveyana-
Si: "me mxolod imisTvis movedi, rom baRi
menaxa". alisisTvisac da CemTvisac, baRi Se-
xvedris sivrcea, anda, rogorc mirCa eli-
adem Tqva, samyaros centri. es codna amg-
var winadadebas mTavazobs: baRi mwvanea
tvinSi. am Cemmierve mofiqrebul frazas
sxva, gaston baSlaris frazasTan mivyavar,
romelic, vimedovneb, sworad maxsovs: "si-
zmar-mexsierebis baRi, dakarguli WeSmar-
iti warsulis saiqioSi".

m. i. m.: rac Sens tyes Seexeba, rogorc Cans

is mdumarebis sinonimia. magram sxva mniS-
vnelobebsac vgrZnob masSi. magaliTad, is,
SeiZleba, akrZalulsa da dafarulze mian-
iSnebdes.

a. p.: ratomac ara? magram is agreTve, Sei-

Zleba, aRniSnavdes bavSvobas, sxeuls, Ra-
mes.

m. i. m.: odesme Segibijebia baRSi?

84
a. p.: prusti, survilis analizirebisas, am-
bobs, rom survils ar surs, rom gaaanali-
zon, mas surs, rom daakmayofilon. me ar
msurs baRze saubari, misi danaxva minda.
cxadia, rasac vambob mainc umwifari da
qarafSutulia, magram am cxovrebaSi veras-
dros vSvebiT imas, rac gvsurs. rac kidev
erTi mizezia imisa, rom baRis xilva gv-
surdes, Tundac es SeuZlebeli iyos; gan-
sakuTrebiT Tu es SeuZlebelia.

m. i. m.: sanam Sen mpasuxobdi, Senma xmam Cems

mexsierebaSi mipasuxa fraziT Seni leqsi-
dan: "Cemi saqme moxmoba da gandevnaa".

a. p.: sxva mizezebTan erTad, me imis gamoc

vwer, rom ar moxdes is risic meSinia; raTa
ar iarsebos iman, rac Wrilobas mayenebs;
Tavi davifaro borotisagan (kafka). naTq-
vamia, rom poeti didi mkurnalia. am gage-
biT, poeturi amocanis nawilia eqsorcizmi,
sulTgamoxmoba da, amis miRma, gankurneba.
leqsis dawera fundamenturi Wrilobis
gankurnebas niSnavs, xleCis Sexorcebas.
radgan yvela Cvengani daWrilia.

85
m. i. m.: im mraval metaforaTagan erT-erTi,
romliTac Sen am fundamentur Wrilobas
qmni, gansakuTrebiT cxadad aRmebeWda mex-
sierebaSi, imis gamo, Tu ramdenad imoqme-
da man Cemze - fraza erT Sens adreul leqs-
Si Semxvda, sadac wer: "gancvifrebuli mx-
eci Cems sisxlSi miaTrevs sakuTar Tavs".
da mwams, rom qari am Wrilobis erT-erTi
mTavari avtoria, ramdenadac is drodadro
ixsenieba Sens leqsSi, rogorc "diadi mtan-
jveli".

a. p.: me miyvars qari imis miuxedavad, rom,

sworedac, Cemi warmosaxva mas xSirad aR-
Wurvavs xolme mZvinvare formebiTa da
ferebiT. qarisgan dabegvili, me mivdivar
tyeSi, davexetebi baRis ZiebaSi.

m. i. m.: RamiT?

a. p.: Ramisa me cota ram vici, magram vu-

erTdebi mas. me es erT leqsSi vTqvi: " mTe-
li Ramis manZilze Rames vqmni. mTeli Rame
vwer. sityva-sityva vwer Rames".

m. i. m.: erT adreul leqsSi Sen mdumare-

basac SeuerTdi.
86
a. p.: mdumareba: erTaderTi cduneba da
udidesi piroba. magram vgrZnob, rom "dau-
Ralavi CurCuli" marad grovdeba (ra kar-
gad vuwyi Tu saiT miedineba moxetiale
enis Sadrevani). amitom vbedav, vTqva, rom
ar vici, Tu arsebobs mdumareba.

m. i. m.: im "mes" erTgvar kontrapunqtad,

romelic Rames erwymis, vxedav "ucxos";
"udabnos mdumare binadars"; "patara mog-
zaurs"; "Cems misive Tavisgan gadaxvewils";
imas, romelsac surda "klaviSebSi Sesvla,
raTa SeeeRwia musikis SigniT, raTa samSob-
lo hqonoda." eseni, Seni sxva xmebi, isini,
romlebic Seni xetialis xelobaze mety-
veleben - rac Sens WeSmarit xelobad mesa-
xeba.

a. p.: Traklis fraza magondeba: "kaci ucxoa

dedamiwaze".* mwams, rom, yvela sxvas Sor-
is, poeti yvelaze metad ucxoa. mjera, rom
poetis erTaderTi TavSesafari sityvaa.

* espanurad: "Es el hombre un extraño en la tierra". aq pi-

sarniki mcdarad citirebs striqons Traklis leq-
sidan "sulis gazafxuli": "Es ist die Seele ein Fremdes
auf Erden" ("suli ucxoa dedamiwaze").
87
m. i. m.: Sen gaqvs SiSi, romelic safrTxes
uqmnis am TavSesafars: "imis arcodna, Tu
rogor davasaxeloT is, rac ar arsebobs".
swored am drosaa, rom enas emalebi.

a. p.: minda, orazrovnebiT vcado ganmarte-

ba: me enas enaSi vemalebi. rodesac raRa-
cas - maT Soris araras - saxeli aqvs, is nak-
leb mtruli gveCveneba. da mainc, maqvs
eWvi, rom mTavari uTqmelia.

m. i. m.: amitom eZeb "figurebs, romlebic

cocxlad gvesaxebian aqtiuri enis wyalo-
biT, romelic maT gulisxmobs"?

a. p.: iseTi grZnoba maqvs, rom niSnebi, si-

tyvebi mianiSneben, gulisxmoben. enis Seg-
rZnebis am rTul gzas mivyavar rwmenasTan,
rom ena realobas ver gamoxatavs, rom Cven
mxolod TvalnaTelis Sesaxeb SegviZlia
laparaki. aqedan momdinareobs Cemi sur-
vili, Sevqmna Semzaravi sizustis leqsebi,
miuxedavad Cemi TanSobili surrealizmisa
da im faqtisa, rom Sinagani aCrdilebis el-
ementebiT vmuSaob. swored es axasiaTebs
Cems leqsebs.

88
m. i. m.: da mainc, Sen aRar eZeb sizustes.
a. p.: marTalia; msurs, leqsi Tavad daiw-
eros, ise, rogorc Tavad surs. magram mir-
Cevnia, awmyoze ar vilaparako, radgan is
jer TiTqmis arc ki dawerila.

m. i. m.: miuxedavad imisa, rom amdens wer?!

a. p.: ...

m. i. m.: "saxelis darqmevis arcodna" dakav-

Sirebulia survilTan, miagno "raime fra-
zas romelic srulebiT Senia". Seni wigni,
"Sromebi da Rameebi" mravlismTqmeli pa-
suxia, radgan masSi swored Seni xmebi met-
yveleben.

a. p.: am leqsebze bevri vimuSave da unda

vTqva, rom maTi Seqmnisas sakuTari Tavi
Sevqmeni, da me Sevicvale. CemSi vatarebdi
idealuri leqsis formas da me mas mivaRwie.
vici, rom aravis vgavar (es ubedurebaa). am
wignma momca bedniereba, weraSi Tavisuf-
leba mepova. Tavisufali viyavi, SemeZlo
Cemi Tavisgan iseTi forma Semeqmna, rogo-
ric msurda.

89
m. i. m.: es SiSebi Tanaarseboben im sityveb-
is SiSTan, romlebic brundebian. ra sityve-
bia eseni?

a. p.: mexsiereba. me vucqer gaqrolebuli

sityvebis mdinarebas, da Tavi daucvel da
pasiur mayureblad meCveneba.

m. i. m.: me vTvli, rom sarke, meore mxare,

akrZaluli zonaa da misi daviwyeba Sens Se-
moqmedebaSi "sioris", "orad yofnis" SiSs
warmoqmnis. Sedegad, Seni Semoqmedeba ga-
urbis dopelgangeris sazRvrebs, raTa moi-
cvas yvela, vinc ki yofilxar.

a. p.: marTali xar. yvela imaTganis SiSi, vinc

Cems SigniT metoqeobs. anri miSos erT leqs-
Sia aseTi fraza: "me var. me vlaparakob mas-
ze, vinc-me-iyo da vinc-me-iyo laparakobs
Cemze [...] aravinaa marto sakuTar tyavSi".

m. i. m.: es raime konkretul momentSi xde-

ba?

a. p.: rodesac "xmis qalwuli" mRalatobs.

90
m. i. m.: Seni erTi leqsis Tanaxmad, Seni yve-
laze lamazi siyvaruli sarkeebis siyvaru-
li iyo. vis xedav maTSi?

a. p.: vxedav sxvas, romelic me var. (sinamd-

vileSi, sarkeebisadmi garkveul SiSs gan-
vicdi). drodadro, Cven verTdebiT. es
TiTqmis yovelTvis maSin xdeba, roca vwer.

m. i. m.: erTi RamiT, cirkSi, Sen aRadgine

dakarguli ena, "im wams, rodesac mxedreb-
ma, CiraRdnebiT xelSi, mZvinvare wreze ga-
aWenes TavianTi Savi raSebi." ra aris es ra-
Rac "rac miawvdis Cems guls im mxurvale
bgerebis msgavsebas, floqvebi rom gamos-
cemdnen qviSebze".

a. p.: me upovneli enis povnas vcdilob.

m. i. m.: iqneb Sen is mxatvrobaSi ipove?

a. p.: xatva miyvars, radgan mxatvrobaSi

vpoulob SesaZleblobas, mdumared Sevex-
miano Cemi Sinagani landebis xatebebs. amas-
Tan erTad, me mxiblavs miTomaniis nakle-

91
boba mxatvrobis enaSi. sityvebiT muSaobi-
sas an, ufro zustad, Cemi sityvebis Ziebi-
sas, vawydebi daZabulobas, romelic mxat-
vrobaSi ar mxvdeba.

m. i. m.: ra gizidavs ase Zalian rusos "mZi-

nare boSa qalSi"?

a. p.: es tilo sacirko cxenebis enis eqviv-

alentia. visurvebdi, damewera rame am nax-
atis msgavsi, radgan masSi mdumarebaa da,
amave dros, miniSnebebi mZime da manaTobel
rameebze. agreTve gansakuTrebiT miyvars
bosxis, klees da ernstis Semoqmedeba.

m. i. m.: da bolos, mainteresebs, odesme Tu

dagisvams sakuTari TavisTvis SekiTxva,
romelsac oktavio pasi svams "mSvildisa da
liris" SesavalSi: "gana ar ajobebda, cxo-
vreba gveqcia poeziad da ara poezia cxov-
rebad?"

a. p.: amaze Cemi erT-erTi axali leqsiT gi-

pasuxeb:

92
vnatrob, mxolod eqstazSi SemeZlos cxov-
reba, leqsis sxeuls Cemive sxeuliT vqmni-
de, yovel winadadebas Cemi dReebiTa da
kvirebiT vixsnide, leqss Cemi sunTqviT
aRvavsebde, vidre yvela sityvis yvela aso
msxverplad ar Seewireboda cxovrebis ce-
remoniebs.

93
 sarCevi

irakli yolbaia. alqimia da sinesTezia 5

wignidan Sromebi da Rameebi

leqsi 13
gamocxadebebi 14
Sens dabadebis dReze 15
ngrevebi 16
sayvarlebi 17
romelic anaTebs 18
aRiareba 19
Sexvedra 20
xangrZlivoba 21
Seni xma 22
daviwyeba 23
dakarguli nabijebi 24
SenTvis saxelis darqmeva 25
gamomSvidobeba 26
Sromebi da Rameebi 27
misi aryofnis mniSvneloba 28
mwvane samoTxe 29
bavSvoba 30
manam 31
ganTiadi 32
saaTi 33
sakuTari Tavisgan gasaqcev adgilas 34
fuWi sazRvrebi 35
arsebulis guli 36
didi sityvebi 37
mdumarebebi 38
siCumes moviTxov 39

wignidan sigiJis qvis gamoxda

Ramis momRerali qali 40
Tavbrusxveva, anu sasrul rameTa ganazreba 41
yru farani 42
privilegia 43
Rame gulisa 44
zamTris zRapari 45
natexebi mdumarebis samarTavad 46
sizmari romelSic dumili oqroa 48
Tête de Jeune Fille (odilon redoni) 49
musikis dapirebebi 50
uwyvetoba 51
sarkis bilikebi 52

wignidan musikaluri jojoxeTi

Cold in Hand Blues 57
qvakuTxedi 58
musikaluri jojoxeTi 64
maldororis simRerebis egzemplarSi 65
makurnebeli sityva 66
uxilavisani 67
wyalTa sibnele 68
sruli danakargi 69

gardacvalebis mere gamocemuli leqsebi

amaRam, am samyaroSi 70
mokle kantoebi 74

Canawerebi poeziaze 80

interviu
ramdenime gasaRebi... 83

tiraJi 100 cali